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#171300 - 08/03/11 12:08 PM Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? ticks? [Re: Mary Jane]
Wisc.Tiger_Val Offline
Member First - Owner Second "The Watcher"

Registered: 01/18/10
Posts: 8650
Loc: Wisconsin
Likes: 255
Lisa,

WOW that is a lot to digest. The only thing I can suggest is ask your Vet if Aminophylline might help Max or if could be used with all the other Medications he might go one, may react to corticosteroids . My horse Pixie had scar tissue in her lungs from two bouts of pneumonia before the age of 4. She wheezed and coughed and had a high respiratory rate and burned a lot of energy just breathing. My Vet suggested we give this a try, it worked wonders for her. I did read that it has mixed results with horses,

http://www.petcarerx.com/pcrx/HealthGuide/Medications/Medication.aspx?mid=10159

http://www.petplace.com/drug-library/aminophylline/page1.aspx
_________________________
Val da Tiger

Fuzzybutt the cat.

RIP Cheyenne - AKA: Digger, CheyChey Girl, Cheyenne Large and In charge. 2/16/02 - 2/27/16
RIP DeeDee - AKA: DD Poo, Little Bit, Binky (part of the Binky and Booboo team) 6/23/02-6/20/11
RIP Lakota - AKA: Bubba, Big Boy, BooBoo (the other part of the Binky and BooBoo team). 1/19/03-9/19/2011
RIP Raya - AKA: Raz-a, Ray a Sunshine, RayBestos, the little one, Silly Girl. 9/21/05 - 6/27/14

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#171310 - 08/03/11 01:00 PM Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? ticks? [Re: Wisc.Tiger_Val]
JeanKBBMMMAAN Offline
Rescues Rule Admin

Registered: 01/18/10
Posts: 4618
Likes: 165
WOWZA. That is some interesting stuff. I am going to have to read this a few times for it to sink in.

Please show this to...I cannot remember who it was...who was not treating the SIBO (now aka Abx Responsive Diarrhea) with antibiotics? Wasn't there someone?
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#171311 - 08/03/11 01:02 PM Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? ticks? [Re: Wisc.Tiger_Val]
MaxaLisa Offline

Global Moderator

Registered: 01/26/10
Posts: 19428
Loc: Northern CA
Likes: 254
Thanks everyone, great suggestions for the lungs, I will be certain to be googling and asking my vet about them.

I feel so terrible, that at the same time I've been trying over and over again to cut back on abx, that my boy has been developing this state of walking mild septic shock I guess.


I took him off tylan back then because I felt that he was he wasn't doing well, when , in reality, he might have needed stronger abx. He keeps needing more and stronger abx, so I really hope that my vet will follow through on this plechner protocol, it's the only possible thing I see to break the cycle.

If it's not SIBO, it might be the stupid tick stuff, though I will always suspect the fact that stb-ex used the toilet for his water bowl before we met. Idiot, who does that anyway, and in a breed so susceptible to bacteria. I know that was a long time ago, but he's been sick a very very long time, it just progresses.

He has a harder time breathing after meals. I thought it was something I've been giving, I've been trying all sorts of different combinations - I bet it's an inflamed gut.

And none of that touches the possible lung stuff. When he was younger, he would have problems breathing, and laying down and me stretching out his ribcage would help. That makes me think of the lung stuff a bit, everything very tight

Today is the chiro, for both of us.

Tomorrow I find out what the acu vet has to say about starting the protocol.

If I start SIBO treatment the day before the test, do you think it makes a difference?
_________________________
MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/

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#171313 - 08/03/11 01:05 PM Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? ticks? [Re: MaxaLisa]
MaxaLisa Offline

Global Moderator

Registered: 01/26/10
Posts: 19428
Loc: Northern CA
Likes: 254
Jean, yes, I remember. Haven't had coffee yet, I'll think of the name.
_________________________
MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/

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#171314 - 08/03/11 01:06 PM Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? ticks? [Re: MaxaLisa]
JeanKBBMMMAAN Offline
Rescues Rule Admin

Registered: 01/18/10
Posts: 4618
Likes: 165
Call and ask someone - or email - I think, to be safe.
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#171321 - 08/03/11 01:20 PM Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? ticks? [Re: JeanKBBMMMAAN]
MaxaLisa Offline

Global Moderator

Registered: 01/26/10
Posts: 19428
Loc: Northern CA
Likes: 254
Yeah. I have to imagine, if he's this bad (who else has an undersized heart from sibo? No, only my dog!), it can't make much difference, but I should find someone to ask.


The internal medicine guy did say that they see a lot of strange things from this type of disseminated SIBO, if that's what it is. It seems to manifest differently in different individuals. I wanted him to tell me more, but certainly that would have been at the expense of talking about Max.

I'm such a geek, I think I could have found a zillion questions for him...
_________________________
MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/

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#171341 - 08/03/11 02:34 PM Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? ticks? [Re: MaxaLisa]
arycrest Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/11/10
Posts: 2488
Loc: Central Florida
Likes: 86
I don't know if this will help Max or not, but when Kelly was treated for SIBO he took a 30 day course of tetracycline and ate a low-residue food for maybe six months or so. My vet then had me attempt to wean him back to a regular diet, however, the SIBO flared up again in short order (it was bad enough he had to go to the ER).

He was given another 30 day course of tetracycline and put back on his low-residue diet for 18 months. He was weaned off the LR diet back onto a regular diet sucessfully the second time and never had another problem until the day he died.

While he did take antibiotics, he was only on them for a total of about 60 days during a 24 month (more or les) time span.
_________________________
Gayle
Faith, Ledgie & Scooby
My Bridge Kids: Andy, Abbey, Tasha, Tex, Echo, Yukon, JR, Too, Niki, Bo, Ringer, Kelly, Honey, Mac, Slider & Bruiser

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#171368 - 08/03/11 06:14 PM Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? ticks? [Re: arycrest]
PositiveDog Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 4876
Loc: Ohio
Likes: 131
Lisa and Max - hugging What a lot to absorb. It is good to get some (probable) answers, but it sounds like a long road ahead.

Max is fortunate to have you as his champion!
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Bonnie

www.dogtors.com

With approval of my friends:

SamCat, 03/2011

Seiko, Solo, Sophie, Skye and Buddy - bridge dogs who taught me so much

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#171382 - 08/03/11 07:43 PM Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? [Re: PositiveDog]
MaxaLisa Offline

Global Moderator

Registered: 01/26/10
Posts: 19428
Loc: Northern CA
Likes: 254
Gayle, he's been on doxycycline, a tetracycline, since 2009, which did help with his SIBO symptoms when I first started with it. This was so not on my radar. Of course, if it's not SIBO, it's some other infection.....there must be a reason why he needed three different abx at the time to heal his fistula.

Bonnie, sigh, yes, a long road. We have a shot at this if all of us are on the same page. I'm worried, and tired, but at least I have a direction. I hope that tomorrow's appointment with the acu vet to talk about the Plechner protocol goes well. I just ordered his new book from Amazon.


Edited by MaxaLisa (08/03/11 09:21 PM)
_________________________
MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/

Top Likes: 0 
#171552 - 08/04/11 07:04 PM Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? [Re: MaxaLisa]
MaxaLisa Offline

Global Moderator

Registered: 01/26/10
Posts: 19428
Loc: Northern CA
Likes: 254
Had an appointment with the acu vet today. We kinda have a plan.

We sent off a fecal sample to be checked at the lab, as well as blood for folate/B-12.

The acu vet is not comfortable doing Plechner's protocol. Initially, it requires several injections of high dose steroids, and she's just not sure what Max will do under those circumstances. Max's dependency on several antiobiotics, and being so weak now, it's really unpredictable, and with an injection, you just can't take that back.

It is clear that there is an endocrine dysfunction and that he will need ongoing steroid treatment to replace the low cortisol. He will be treated like an Addison's dog, now two tests showing that he isn't making enough cortisol, and all his immune indicators are low. Everyone keeps telling me that he needs higher doses of steroids, but Addison's is a low dose, so I guess I don't understand that....

We are going to have to play a balancing act between the antibiotics and the steroids. We want to get him better, so we can do a trial without the doxycycline, in case he is reacting to that. It's possible, that the doxy was doing the job that the pred is now doing, and tetracycline allergy is not unheard of. I don't completely buy that the doxy is acting only as an anti-inflammatory and not also as an antibiotic, but, I'm willing to consider the possibility.

She didn't completely discount the Plechner theory, but just that we won't have any tools to treat Max with if he crashes, since he's not really responding well to anything at all. I think she is thinking of a more stepped and moderate approach to the protocol. I don't know if that will be effective though...like abx, sometimes a low dose just doesn't do the trick. Most important to her though, is that Max doesn't crash as we step up the dose.

I am going to start vitamin C infusions next week, to see if he will respond to that. Called in the homeopathic vet too - always do that when my back is against the wall.

So we aren't out of options yet, we'll keep plugging away. I really really miss walking my dog....


Edited by MaxaLisa (08/04/11 07:06 PM)
_________________________
MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/

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