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#180638 - 09/12/11 03:36 PM Re: Are Czech dogs more likely to have issues as pets? [Re: GSDElsa]
Kamahi Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 05/13/10
Posts: 2357
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Jaeger was my only experience with a Czech dog, so I will give my opinion on what his temperament was like..

I think at least one of Jaeger's parents was 100% Czech, and the other was 50/50 DDR (Or West German working? Not sure. There's a possibility he was 100% Czech, but I'm not exactly certain)/Czech. I had him until he was almost 9 months old, and he was a LOT of dog. I was doing Schutzhund and plenty of obedience training with him though, planning on dock diving when the weather had gotten nicer, agility, and possibly herding as well. He definitely needed a job and plenty of exercise. (Though he always had a good off switch when he was in the house)

He got along great with strangers that I told him were ok (otherwise he would bark; this didn't start until he hit 8 months), their kids, and he basically ignored other dogs (as he got older). He was more of a people-oriented dog; he wanted nothing to do with dogs outside the family, and even then as he got older he preferred people (mainly me; he was definitely a one-person dog) over dogs. However, having said that, I worked on his training and socializing constantly. I could take him to crowded events and different places with people and dogs and he would be excellent.

He was also a very dominant dog, even at the young age of 8-9 months old. (This could have easily turned into a bad situation had I not understood pack behavior. For the average pet owner, say they had another dominant dog in the household or tried to bring another dominant dog into the household; it might have caused problems ending badly for all the dogs, and even the people, involved) The pack definitely respected him as "top dog." Even Kamahi. (This may also be because I chose the most dominant/confident puppy in the litter) He was always very serious, and acted more like a dog than a puppy when he was only 8 months old.

He used to bark at dogs when he was younger, which probably would have led to him becoming dog aggressive/reactive if I hadn't nipped it in the bud from the start. (distracted him with high-value treats whenever we would see a dog) Only when he hit 8 months old did he start acting more mature and he was much easier to take places.

So do I think Jaeger would have been a good dog for the "average pet owner"? No. He was a high energy/high prey drive dog, and he was also a very dominant dog that would constantly push his boundaries; if I had let him get away with it he would have ruled the house. (If it weren't for religiously practicing NILIF with him I think he would have thought he was "top dog" over the people too) He wouldn't have been the type of dog you could take on a short walk and then release into the dog park - just an example.


Oh, and I do want to add... Jaeger was not a bad dog at all - he was perfect for ME! Just not the average pet owner wink (I love working with a challenging dog, just like I own and ride a horse a trainer called "the most dangerous horse he's ever worked with" after she charged and reared at him in a round pen, and I'm the only person who can ride her)

Just like Elizabeth's Zefra (why I like Zefra so much wub wink ), he was very biddable, he was always very focused on me, even in heavily distracted areas, and he engaged with his handler (me) easily. Even when he rough-housed with the other dogs outside I could call him off chasing them and he would immediately stop what he was doing and come straight to me without looking back. He too had very solid nerves, an outgoing personality (when he was younger, around 2 months to 8 months, then he seemed to get more aloof), and to his family (and kids he met) he had such a sweet and loving personality. He had crazy prey drive, amazing ball drive, and a willingness to work/please that I hadn't seen in a dog before. wub

I miss him so much..:( Off to cry now.... teary
_________________________
~Sacha
There's no such thing as a bad dog. It's the owner behind the dog.

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#180641 - 09/12/11 03:49 PM Re: Are Czech dogs more likely to have issues as pets? [Re: Kamahi]
cassadee7 Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 1699
Loc: Southern WA
Likes: 26
Sacha that is a very interesting story about Jaegar. And Liz... both of you guys, can you imagine if Zefra or Jaegar was put in a home with people who did NO sports and were inexperienced with GSDs?? Sacha you already ansswered this but Liz I am curious what you think Zefra would be like at a year if she was in a home where they just treated her like a pet, without all the work and training and effort you are putting into her?

Heck, I think if Saber was in a strictly "pet"/nonsport/nontraining home she would end up getting rehomed! She is awesome for me but she has so much energy, she is one who would only take one 15 minute nap a day if I didn't crate her. She will go from 6am to 11pm, including an hour dock diving, two 30 minute walks, an hour of OB, 3 or 4 20 minute fetch/play sessions in the yard, an hour to two hours at the dog park playing with other dogs and running... yet, she is always ready for more and never seems to get tired. She is very submissive though.
_________________________
Shawn
Mom to five kids and
"Saber" NN Jette vom Wildhaus CD BN RA CAX CGC JJ-N HIC
Kira vom Snoozhaus ZZZ CGC!!!

Saber's Blog: http://stuffsaberdoes.blogspot.com/

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#180649 - 09/12/11 04:11 PM Re: Are Czech dogs more likely to have issues as pets? [Re: cassadee7]
Jasper&Loki Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 02/12/10
Posts: 223
Likes: 8
I have a West German Showline and a Czech (working lines).

First, I am glad I started off with the WG SL, it gave me a taste of a GSD, with a nice on/off switch. His temperament is solid, however his nerves/temp aren't as solid as my Czech's.

I am no expert in bloodlines, training, etc, however I feel as if my Czech is more trust worthy about what he is thinking/feeling (in a situation), I guess you see is what you get, is what I mean.

I think Loki (Czech) is MORE forgiving to my mistakes. He is very hard, however if I don't make a big deal out of something, neither will he. I don't fear him around kids, strangers (biting or acting aggressive). However if he senses something, he will for sure let it be known. I lived in downtown setting, lots of drug dealers, shady people, he kept everything away (he has such a great sense, suspicious, aloof, usually it was how the people acted as to how he would determine a threat. He never took his sight off of anything.

I can put him on his back, grab his neck, twist him like a pretzel, and he won't react. I can do this with any of my dogs, IMO, it's just the way I raised them as puppies, not so much the bloodlines.

I socialized both dogs the same, sat at Target, in front of stores with cars, kids, men, etc. Socialized the most with children and men, no problems with either dog.

I think if you are dog savvy, patient, committed to training, and doing whats right for a dog, then you can be ok. I think any GSD requires this. I just think that if you know what your brining home, and it requires abit more, it's your responsibility to not let it fail.

Also, just watching the difference in play between my two boys, a worlds of difference. Loki plays to destroy his opponent, or whatever the target (very rough player). Jasper not so aggressive.

Jasper has a high/higher prey drive, Loki has a very high defense drive.

The other day 3 Coyotes started to approach at a distance. Neither backed down (I leashed them when I saw them). None of the Coyotes came forward to try and bait the dogs, however Loki wanted to rip them apart (just from what I observed). I feel very safe with both boys, even safer with Loki. I know it will always be my job to protect them smile (I carry a gun just in case, too much wildlife to let them get hurt).

The tv show K-9 Cops (was on for a season), they use the Czech bloodlines, they have the best K9 program in nation (from what I have read).

Note: I am not saying Czech is any better/worse then any other bloodlines :), I just prefer them.

I also raised him with tennis/chuck it balls, he has a tremendous ball drive, he would die for his balls. This helps out so much (a job, when we can't work).

I will be honest and say that Loki would be like Jack Nicholson in the Shining if he could get outlet grin

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#180668 - 09/12/11 04:50 PM Re: Are Czech dogs more likely to have issues as pets? [Re: cassadee7]
GSDElsa Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/04/10
Posts: 1264
Loc: CNY
Likes: 34
Originally Posted By: cassadee7
can you imagine if Zefra or Jaegar was put in a home with people who did NO sports and were inexperienced with GSDs??

That is a little apples to oranges, though. Elizabeth WANTED a SchH prospect...she wasn't looking for a pet. I think there are puppies in litters in any lines that can get people into trouble (or at least a good litter). Zefra never should have gone into a pet home, but maybe one of her sisters is perfect for that.
_________________________
J, mom to:
- Elsa - BrightStar Rescue - "Da Pookins"
- Medo - "The Beast From The East"


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#180681 - 09/12/11 05:40 PM Re: Are Czech dogs more likely to have issues as pets? [Re: GSDElsa]
elisabeth Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/18/10
Posts: 5956
Loc: Ontario
Likes: 32
Justine is right (how many times have I said that today? Don't get use to it Justine! wink Just kidding!).

Zefra was never even a contender for a pet home. There were three females who were all front runners for working homes out of a litter of seven.

Four of her siblings went to active pet homes, who had GSD experience I believe or at least most of them did.

The other three pups were held back until about 12.5-13 weeks old because my breeder wanted more time to assess the litter and really see what these pups were about. At about 12.5 weeks, it was clear-clear that Zefra was coming here with me to be worked in schH and a few other areas. I was an active working home (multiple venues but main focus was SchH), had GSD experience and WANTED the high drive, high energy, intense working girl. Zefra was never a "laid back" dog/puppy, from the moment she was born she was a little crazy (in a good way..lol).

The other female is still with my breeder but I believe is being put up for sale because although she has great nerve, an amazing temperament she is a bit softer and lower in drive than Zefra. She would make a great pet dog to a person or family wanting to do sports for fun or a very active lifestyle (that includes the dog of course).

Zefra would not do well in a 'train once a week, go for a spin around the block or play ball in the back yard once per day' home. She needs mental and physical stimulation to tire her out. I can imagine she would become destructive if left to her own devices and not properly exercised (mentally and physically). She is also VERY rough, not just in a rough puppy play kind of way, she is just a rough girl. I allow her to play with older dogs (who are good with pups and careful of their own weight) because she overwhelms most pups her age.

For an example, my friend who has a half sibling to Lies's Pan has a 15 week old, primarily WGWL pup. It's a male and probably medium to high drive, well Zefra and this pup can NOT play together because she overwhelms him. She is too rough with him, just "too much" for the poor boy. When you put Zefra and this pup out on the field next to one another in terms of drive her pup looks mellow (which he is not). Same with energy level, Zefra is always "on" and "ready" to work, she does settle in the house well but is always "ready". Like right now she and Stark are laying at my feet but if I get up or move, she is JUMPING up and grabbing a ball and shoving it at me or offering behaviours to get a reward. She has this natural focused heel and will follow me from room to room giving me a nice fuss.. lol. As you can imagine, she is my dream dog.. LMAO.

If Zefra was left in a pet home, and not properly worked (mentally and physically) I can see her becoming aggressive due to frustration. This type of life was never an option for Zefra (thank goodness for responsible breeders!) so it really is like comparing oranges to apples.

My friends pup would do really well in a pet home, or active home and I don't think would have any problems in that role or in that type of lifestyle. Zefra.. no way.

Is one dog better than the other? No. I guess it has to do with what YOU want and can live with.

I like my dogs with a little edge and who are intense and a little more "real". I wanted the high drive dog, with sound nerve and a perfect temperament and who had low-medium thresholds AND high energy. I got everything I wanted. Most people look at Zefra and think she is an unruly mess of a puppy... but then they go home and throw the ball in the back yard for their Golden Retrievers and I bring my wild, crazy, intense mess to the field and she shines. smile
_________________________
K-W German Shepherd Club

Wild Winds Archangel Raphael "Stark", HIC, TT
G Wild Winds Zephyr "Zefra" BH, HIC, NTD, ITD, CGN, TT
" XX " z Weberhaus

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#180715 - 09/12/11 07:50 PM Re: Are Czech dogs more likely to have issues as pets? [Re: elisabeth]
BlackGSD Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 02/15/10
Posts: 243
Loc: Washington(The SNOWY side.)
Likes: 3
Kathy and Shawn, Anton is all DDR. Siren is DDR and Czech.
_________________________
Siren vom Banach ( Sable female GSD.){3-20-08}

Wrangler (Blue Merle male ACD/Aussie mix.){9-29-99 to 8-29-11}


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#180720 - 09/12/11 09:18 PM Re: Are Czech dogs more likely to have issues as pets? [Re: BlackGSD]
cassadee7 Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 1699
Loc: Southern WA
Likes: 26
Originally Posted By: BlackGSD
Kathy and Shawn, Anton is all DDR. Siren is DDR and Czech.


Ah okay! How do you think Siren's Czech genes affect her behavior/temperament?

Interesting what you guys are saying. It sounds like perhaps these folks (the original ones I mentioned) either did not socialize or train their dog enough, or perhaps they just got to pick their pup based on color or some other criteria without really knowing what they were getting (mismatch).
_________________________
Shawn
Mom to five kids and
"Saber" NN Jette vom Wildhaus CD BN RA CAX CGC JJ-N HIC
Kira vom Snoozhaus ZZZ CGC!!!

Saber's Blog: http://stuffsaberdoes.blogspot.com/

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#194476 - 11/18/11 04:20 PM Re: Are Czech dogs more likely to have issues as pets? [Re: cassadee7]
Cliff Offline
Member

Registered: 03/02/10
Posts: 78
Likes: 1
You can never make a general judgement on a line or type of GS unless you have seen many many of them and start to see a pattern of like behavoir. JMO

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