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#194095 - 11/16/11 07:40 PM Nadia's Blood work
Zisso Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/25/10
Posts: 2574
Loc: Eastern Oregon
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Finally got it back. I typed it all into a speadsheet so it would come out looking like it does on paper, with the exception of the comments that I am pasting in below the bloodwork spreadsheet. I only had them test her thyroid-no CBC, etc, which I now think I should have done that too.




*Note- 3rd form down-I mistyped Thyroglobulin & the comments didn't come out the way I typed them, along with some other misspelling of words, but I am sure you know what they mean. Sorry bout that.




Edited by Zisso (11/16/11 07:41 PM)
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Bev~mom to:
Zisso-DOB 09/16/07

R.I.P. Kiki, Nadia, Pepe, and all my other loves from years gone by.

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#194101 - 11/16/11 08:56 PM Re: Nadia's Blood work [Re: Zisso]
Zisso Offline
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Forgot to say that I am happy that it appears that Nadia does not have hypothyroidism smile Now to work on changing her food (kibble portion) to lower her fat intake. Maybe that will help to clear her eyes. Behavior wise, I have managed her just fine to some extent. Nothing overly demanding that I can't handle.
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Bev~mom to:
Zisso-DOB 09/16/07

R.I.P. Kiki, Nadia, Pepe, and all my other loves from years gone by.

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#194102 - 11/16/11 09:09 PM Re: Nadia's Blood work [Re: Zisso]
Kayos Offline

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I think that looks good. Sometimes it would be nice to have something medical to hang your hat on tho.

One of my cats is acting hyperthyroid and the blood work was inconclusive. We are checking again in 3 to 6 months. So just because it is inconclusive does not mean she may not be moving in that direction. I would consider re-checking in 6 months maybe.
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Kathy

PTE,AC,URO3,AG2,UCD Xtra!Xtra! v. TeMar CDX,GN,RE,CGC,TC,HIC, Bh "Havoc" 6/4/07
PAM, URO3, UCD, UACH Tidmores Rising Star Lydia "Mayhem" CD,BN,RE,AX,AJP,OFP,P1J,CA,DN,HT,TKN,TC,CGCA 4/4/12

Lucky, Wolf, Max, Kayos - gone not forgotten. gsdhalo

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#194107 - 11/16/11 09:31 PM Re: Nadia's Blood work [Re: Kayos]
Zisso Offline
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Thanks Kathy! You are right, it would be nice to know what caused the Corneal troubles to begin with. I find it hard to accept that these opaque rings on her corneas are nothing to worry about. Especially when I have just developed a certain distrust in my vet. Saying it could be either of two things, bothers me, saying it is not painful and won't cause problems with her vision at some point is tough to swallow too.

However, to me this bloodwork is saying some of her values are on the low end-is that why the 'inconclusive'?
_________________________
Bev~mom to:
Zisso-DOB 09/16/07

R.I.P. Kiki, Nadia, Pepe, and all my other loves from years gone by.

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#194150 - 11/17/11 06:28 AM Re: Nadia's Blood work [Re: Zisso]
MaxaLisa Offline

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Registered: 01/26/10
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Well, drat it! I was hoping for a slam dunk somewhere here....

Okay, so one thing this tells me is that later when you check thyroid down the road, you don't have to really worry about running a full panel, or checking antibodies. A free T4 will work (optimally combined with a free T3).

So, the middle picture just says that the lab didn't find evidence of autoimmune thyroiditis. The last picture is the range for the TgAA antibodies, and Nadia's are at 5, and below 20% is negative and not into the inconclusive or positive range. That means one of three things....there absolutely is no autoimmune disease, there was autoimmune disease but the thyroid is dying and not producing the antibodies any longer (though in this case,you should see lower hormone values, so this doesn't look to apply), and there may be an autoimmune process that we don't measure (in humans, thyroiditis can produce other antibodies, typcially TPO antibodies, that are not measured in dogs, though can elevate in dogs).

I place no stock in a regular TSH value, only an elevated one. Regular TSH values in canines provide no information, since the TSH doesn't work the same way as in humans.

Note that the total T4 and the free T4 are different - one is above the halfway point, the other just at, a touch below the halfway point. Something to remember later, that the TT4 isn't quite accurate in telling you what is happening with the thyroid.

The TT4 and TT3 are not above the halfway mark. In younger dogs, in most breeds these would be considered, suboptimal. They are not low enough to know if it's a concern.... like with Kathy's cat, often you need two values to know what is happening. So, this is good information to have, it will be needed down the road at some point. I know it was a crunch to get it done, and there's always that feeling that you wasted money for a negative result, but this is helpful now, and will definitely be helpful down the road.

I can think of three things that I might try....a food change as you are doing, but I don't like the idea of a higher grain or starch food to get the lower fat - I don't know about kibbles anymore though......

maybe a digestive enzyme, to help with the digestion of fats.....

Maybe a supplement like canine complete that helps aid the thyroid. Since there aren't indications of an autoimmune issue, I don't have a problem with tyring to support the thyroid and seeing if that helps. I know that a lot of folks like Canine Complete.

I too would be aggressively trying to address this!
_________________________
MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
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#194163 - 11/17/11 08:52 AM Re: Nadia's Blood work [Re: MaxaLisa]
Zisso Offline
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Lisa have I ever said how awesome you are? If I haven't you should know that is what I am thinking at this moment smile

I don't think it is money wasted at all. What I do think is that it was well worth the money to be sure this wasn't the problem so I can look into the next step. Without this test, I really would be just guessing at how to proceed. Then there is the fact that this will be a good base for later, in the event that something else happens at a later date.

In another thread I started while waiting for the test results I was looking for suggestions for low fat kibble, so I already have a few to look at and start a transition. This will happen as soon as I can-timing is everything financially and my unemployment claim ends on Saturday which means I have to open a new claim and will have a week with no income during my waiting week. Good news is that my weekly benefits is likely to go up which will make everything so much easier here.

Since Pepe is up and better, and I didn't use the LP food they gave me for him, I returned it and brought my vet bill down to about $450 for both him and Nadia. Considering all the two of them have been through this week, that isn't too terribly bad I suppose.
_________________________
Bev~mom to:
Zisso-DOB 09/16/07

R.I.P. Kiki, Nadia, Pepe, and all my other loves from years gone by.

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#194197 - 11/17/11 12:05 PM Re: Nadia's Blood work [Re: Zisso]
Zisso Offline
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Another thought-this one is regarding the raw portion of food-is it possible that I am feeding too much or too little organs? This is something I would think would be best determined by a regular blood work up, but it is something I have always been worried about-really that I don't feed enough organ meat.
_________________________
Bev~mom to:
Zisso-DOB 09/16/07

R.I.P. Kiki, Nadia, Pepe, and all my other loves from years gone by.

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#194203 - 11/17/11 12:27 PM Re: Nadia's Blood work [Re: Zisso]
LJsMom Offline
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Registered: 02/10/10
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I'm one of the happy Wholistic Canine Complete users. Steel is on Soloxine and tests in the correct range for a dog on thyroid meds, but his fur around his neck was very dry. I started the Canine Complete a couple months ago and am very pleased to report that his neck fur is very soft and we even have fur regrowth where he had been shaved - over a year ago. I home cook for him so maybe something has been missing. I dunno.
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Joanne

Kryska's Ironwill Steel Train SD (Siberian Husky) 8-6-99
Miss Mila Monster (GSD) 4-14-02

Waiting at the bridge:
Lady Jane Cobb (GSD - age 15)
Sasha (Siberian Husky - age 13)
Niko (Siberian Husky - age 14)
Wooly Bear (Siberian Husky - age 13)

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#194238 - 11/17/11 03:08 PM Re: Nadia's Blood work [Re: LJsMom]
Zisso Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/25/10
Posts: 2574
Loc: Eastern Oregon
Likes: 37
Thanks Joanne smile I will look that up and see how it might work for us. I do have some Missing Link that I occasionally add to her salmon oil, vit e, egg and probiotic/enzyme mixture.


Edited by Zisso (11/17/11 03:09 PM)
_________________________
Bev~mom to:
Zisso-DOB 09/16/07

R.I.P. Kiki, Nadia, Pepe, and all my other loves from years gone by.

Top Likes: 0 
#194242 - 11/17/11 03:23 PM Re: Nadia's Blood work [Re: Zisso]
MaxaLisa Offline

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Registered: 01/26/10
Posts: 19439
Loc: Northern CA
Likes: 255
Originally Posted By: Zisso
Lisa have I ever said how awesome you are? If I haven't you should know that is what I am thinking at this moment smile


blush my dogs have been very good teachers!


Quote:
Since Pepe is up and better, and I didn't use the LP food they gave me for him, I returned it and brought my vet bill down to about $450 for both him and Nadia. Considering all the two of them have been through this week, that isn't too terribly bad I suppose.


Considering how sick Pepe was, and some expensive labwork for Nadia, it definitely could have been worse. Juggling the finances is really tough, particularly with two of them sick.

If you run general bloodwork on Nadia, I would really be interested in seeing her lipase level. Before Max was really sick, it was always very low, showing to me that he probably had a harder time digesting fat. Lipase is not usually included on blood panels, you have to ask that it's included. It's more of a curiosity than anything.

I don't know about the organ meets. They should be higher in vit A, which is good for the eyes, but it's all sorta experimentation. There aren't any tests around that really help with this stuff, unfortunately.

eta: Also, debbieg has also had good results with the Canine Complete too, I believe.


Edited by MaxaLisa (11/17/11 03:24 PM)
_________________________
MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/

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