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#199911 - 12/17/11 01:04 AM Re: Kelso is home [Re: kelso]
kelso Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/15/10
Posts: 1490
Loc: Kansas
Likes: 38
Last update for now I promise....

The internist saw him yesterday and thought he looked good, wounds doing very well. Will be on clinda for a few weeks. She wants him tapered off the pred...staying at 40 mg for now. Thinks he needs to get off of it as she suspects alot of this is side effects from it and some dogs do not do as well as others on the drug, his quality of life ect...so he may have to be put on another immunosuppressant.

She said his immune system may be like this forever, he could have lupus- or something else. Platlets are now 95,000 and MCV 33%. Plan was to go home, continue meds and return in 3 weeks as of yesterday.

I still think that most likely it is a vaccine reaction, then he got an infection because he has been immune suppressed. Is it silly for me to think it is that simple? Maybe we should have started to taper the pred sooner (as labs were pretty much normal) and keep him on a prophylatic antibiotic the entire time.

So then I heard from the critical care vet tonight that his lymphocytes are 4-5 times normal on these labs from yesterday. They had been elevated in the past but improved. They are going to do a immunohistological stain on the cells to look for cancer. She said a bone marrow biopsy may be in his future.

So here we are 4 months later at the same place where we started. Dammit.
The main thing is he is improving, I am glad for that, as long as he is happy that is what is most important to me
_________________________
-Steph

GSD's
Allie, gotcha 7/2007
Riko z Vom Weberhaus, "Fez" 7/29/2012

forever our angels
Meeka, b. 10/31/1994-11/26/2006
Kelso, b. 9/3/2006-2/9/2012


Top Likes: 0 
#199912 - 12/17/11 01:07 AM Re: Kelso is home [Re: kelso]
MaxaLisa Offline

Global Moderator

Registered: 01/26/10
Posts: 19487
Loc: Northern CA
Likes: 256
Never can hear enough about kelso!

Interesting about the bug that they found. But if they are also saying vasculitis....that's just a buzzword for more doxy.

Sure wish they would follow the protocol of aggressive doxy, taper the pred, and go from there frown I'd hate to see him on something like cyclosporin without the protection of the antibiotics.
_________________________
MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/

Top Likes: 0 
#199913 - 12/17/11 01:09 AM Re: Kelso is home [Re: MaxaLisa]
kelso Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/15/10
Posts: 1490
Loc: Kansas
Likes: 38
Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
Never can hear enough about kelso!

Interesting about the bug that they found. But if they are also saying vasculitis....that's just a buzzword for more doxy.

Sure wish they would follow the protocol of aggressive doxy, taper the pred, and go from there frown I'd hate to see him on something like cyclosporin without the protection of the antibiotics.


I am going to push for the tapering/antibiotics before another drug. It just seems to make the most sense to me, don't you think?
_________________________
-Steph

GSD's
Allie, gotcha 7/2007
Riko z Vom Weberhaus, "Fez" 7/29/2012

forever our angels
Meeka, b. 10/31/1994-11/26/2006
Kelso, b. 9/3/2006-2/9/2012


Top Likes: 0 
#199915 - 12/17/11 01:15 AM Re: Kelso is home [Re: kelso]
MaxaLisa Offline

Global Moderator

Registered: 01/26/10
Posts: 19487
Loc: Northern CA
Likes: 256
Yes, you probably know what I would have done all along, even if I had to order Bird Biotic to get enough doxy in him. And I definitely would be doing that before they go looking for something else that might be wrong. But....that's just my opinion.

How is he feeling in general now? I hope that he is feeling better.
_________________________
MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/

Top Likes: 0 
#199923 - 12/17/11 01:32 AM Re: Kelso is home [Re: MaxaLisa]
kelso Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/15/10
Posts: 1490
Loc: Kansas
Likes: 38
I have asked about the doxy a couple of different times...the specialist and my reg vet. They think the two rounds should have been good if it was tick related. I know you had said in the past that vets can be resistant to the aggressive dose...

He is better. Chewing on his ball tonight, took a few laps around the house. He has not been normal since September so it is all relative at this point though.
_________________________
-Steph

GSD's
Allie, gotcha 7/2007
Riko z Vom Weberhaus, "Fez" 7/29/2012

forever our angels
Meeka, b. 10/31/1994-11/26/2006
Kelso, b. 9/3/2006-2/9/2012


Top Likes: 1 
#199924 - 12/17/11 01:36 AM Re: Kelso is home [Re: kelso]
MaxaLisa Offline

Global Moderator

Registered: 01/26/10
Posts: 19487
Loc: Northern CA
Likes: 256
Originally Posted By: kelso
I have asked about the doxy a couple of different times...the specialist and my reg vet. They think the two rounds should have been good if it was tick related. I know you had said in the past that vets can be resistant to the aggressive dose...


And it's all a gamble, every single decision in this along the way is a huge gamble. The question is, which gamble are you willing to take, knowing that the stakes possibly include whether kelso lives or dies? I honestly don't know the answer, which is why I haven't been very forceful about this, it's a crapshoot. I do know what I would do here though. **Even the protocol that HollysMom followed included long term antibiotics.**


Quote:
He is better. Chewing on his ball tonight, took a few laps around the house. He has not been normal since September so it is all relative at this point though.


Well, he's not worse, and there's something to be said for that! And no more shivers.

He had the shivers before the crate incident, right?


Edited by MaxaLisa (12/17/11 01:49 AM)
_________________________
MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/

Top Likes: 0 
#199925 - 12/17/11 01:39 AM Re: Kelso is home [Re: kelso]
MaxaLisa Offline

Global Moderator

Registered: 01/26/10
Posts: 19487
Loc: Northern CA
Likes: 256
Originally Posted By: kelso
..... They think the two rounds should have been good if it was tick related. .....


I wish people would THINK.

What happens to infection when you put an individual on high immuno suppressive doses of steroids, and give an antibiotic that does not kill? There is no way that infection is eliminated, if there was infection.
_________________________
MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/

Top Likes: 1 
#199926 - 12/17/11 01:56 AM Re: Kelso is home [Re: kelso]
arycrest Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/11/10
Posts: 2488
Loc: Central Florida
Likes: 86
Originally Posted By: kelso
Last update for now I promise....

The internist saw him yesterday and thought he looked good, wounds doing very well. Will be on clinda for a few weeks. She wants him tapered off the pred...staying at 40 mg for now. Thinks he needs to get off of it as she suspects alot of this is side effects from it and some dogs do not do as well as others on the drug, his quality of life ect...so he may have to be put on another immunosuppressant.
She said his immune system may be like this forever, he could have lupus- or something else. Platlets are now 95,000 and MCV 33%. Plan was to go home, continue meds and return in 3 weeks as of yesterday.

I still think that most likely it is a vaccine reaction, then he got an infection because he has been immune suppressed. Is it silly for me to think it is that simple? Maybe we should have started to taper the pred sooner (as labs were pretty much normal) and keep him on a prophylatic antibiotic the entire time.

So then I heard from the critical care vet tonight that his lymphocytes are 4-5 times normal on these labs from yesterday. They had been elevated in the past but improved. They are going to do a immunohistological stain on the cells to look for cancer. She said a bone marrow biopsy may be in his future.

So here we are 4 months later at the same place where we started. Dammit.
The main thing is he is improving, I am glad for that, as long as he is happy that is what is most important to me
I agree with Lisa, we can never hear enough about your boy!!! I sure hope this isn't the last update for a while ... I enjoy hearing about Kelso and how he's doing!!!

I know I've told you this before, and I don't know what they'll be giving him in lieu of Pred, but after they diagnosed Ringer with Lupus, he was put on 80mg of Pred a day, slowly tapered down to 0, forget how long it took. He did well, had some side effects of course, but then a month or two after he finished the Pred he had a relapse, and they put him on a course of Imuran/Azathioprine ... he did much better on it ... no side effects at all. Again, I can't recall how long he was on it. And after that he never had another flare up.

Keeping you all in my thoughts and prayers and pleas give him a hug!!!
_________________________
Gayle
Faith, Ledgie & Scooby
My Bridge Kids: Andy, Abbey, Tasha, Tex, Echo, Yukon, JR, Too, Niki, Bo, Ringer, Kelly, Honey, Mac, Slider & Bruiser

Top Likes: 0 
#199928 - 12/17/11 02:02 AM Re: Kelso is home [Re: MaxaLisa]
arycrest Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/11/10
Posts: 2488
Loc: Central Florida
Likes: 86
Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
Originally Posted By: kelso
..... They think the two rounds should have been good if it was tick related. .....


I wish people would THINK.

What happens to infection when you put an individual on high immuno suppressive doses of steroids, and give an antibiotic that does not kill? There is no way that infection is eliminated, if there was infection.
Lisa, gotta ask my dumb question of the day. What would happen if Steph continued the protocal the vets have given her and added Doxy in the mix on her own?
_________________________
Gayle
Faith, Ledgie & Scooby
My Bridge Kids: Andy, Abbey, Tasha, Tex, Echo, Yukon, JR, Too, Niki, Bo, Ringer, Kelly, Honey, Mac, Slider & Bruiser

Top Likes: 1 
#199931 - 12/17/11 02:15 AM Re: Kelso is home [Re: arycrest]
MaxaLisa Offline

Global Moderator

Registered: 01/26/10
Posts: 19487
Loc: Northern CA
Likes: 256
Originally Posted By: arycrest
Lisa, gotta ask my dumb question of the day. What would happen if Steph continued the protocal the vets have given her and added Doxy in the mix on her own?

That's what I would do, and then as he improved, slowly wean off the pred, and continue the doxy.
_________________________
MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/

Top Likes: 0 
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