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#233731 - 06/01/12 11:32 AM Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? [Re: Good_Karma]
kaisersmom Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 02/14/10
Posts: 803
Loc: Northwest OH
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Quote:
If they don't stop whatever is causing the draining, how can they be confident that the draining will stop? Does that make sense?


That's what I was thinking too - fluid on the elbow is different from an abscess. The abscess drains and eventually shrinks and goes away. But the body keeps producing the fluid that's going into the bursa or whatever at the elbow so I don't understand how putting drains in it is going to stop it either. Seems to me the drains would just continually be putting out the fluid as quick as the body makes it.

I sure don't have any answers, but hopefully they can get to the bottom of this somehow!!
_________________________
Pat

Marshall Dillon or Dillon - 15 months old
Kaiser - 11 1/2 yrs old - At the Bridge
Ray (Radar) - 8 yrs old - At the Bridge

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#233743 - 06/01/12 12:18 PM Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? [Re: kaisersmom]
MaxaLisa Offline

Global Moderator

Registered: 01/26/10
Posts: 19428
Loc: Northern CA
Likes: 254
Me, I would be experimenting with all sorts of things. One thing, since it may be preventative anyway, would be antibiotics. The other is something to stop an inflammatory process in the body and slow down that immune system reaction.

I would feel a lot better if that fluid was trickling less and less, and the drains weren't getting ucky.

I'm so sorry this won't just stop!

hugging
_________________________
MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
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#233842 - 06/01/12 11:50 PM Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? [Re: MaxaLisa]
Qyn Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 1964
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Likes: 47
Most of the sites don't recommend draining from what I can see - the fluid is there to protect the joint from whatever is causing the problem so it will keep forming while the problem exists, even if the body is only reacting to what it thinks is a problem even if in reality an issue is very minor.
_________________________
Alison
~~~~~~~~~~
Nix (derivative of Phoenix) Black GSD born 6 June 2011 (Gotcha day 9 Dec 2013)

Quynne gsdhalo - Black Female GSD - Sept 29, 2004 - 11 Nov 2013 Deeply missed

If you don't agree with me ... you are just not listening well enough. smile

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#233843 - 06/02/12 12:01 AM Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? [Re: Qyn]
kaisersmom Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 02/14/10
Posts: 803
Loc: Northwest OH
Likes: 61
I'm not sure if I should say anything or not, but here goes:

I was at a fundraiser this evening and our vet sat at our table. I asked for his opinion about Cooper's elbow. He said he would not have advised putting the drains in as they will just keep draining fluid as long as his body keeps making it, and by putting the drains in, they're making it easier for various germs to get into the joint and set up an infection.

I asked what can be done about elbow hygromas, and he said there really isn't a lot that can be done. A pressure type of bandage can reduce the swelling for awhile, but he said there really isn't a cure. He said they're mostly caused from a dog laying down hard on the elbow or elbows, and sometimes having the dog wear a pad on the elbow to cushion it will reduce the size of the hygroma somewhat. He said they're very difficult to deal with once they're there. frown
_________________________
Pat

Marshall Dillon or Dillon - 15 months old
Kaiser - 11 1/2 yrs old - At the Bridge
Ray (Radar) - 8 yrs old - At the Bridge

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#233844 - 06/02/12 12:33 AM Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? [Re: kaisersmom]
BowWowMeow Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/11/10
Posts: 4747
Loc: Buffalo
Likes: 127
I know you are doing the absolute best you can for him, Bianca. hugging We're all trying to think outside the box. What are your other options where you are right now? Are there any acupuncturists around? Acupuncture is AMAZING for this type of thing. I had idiopathic swelling on my ankle and it is the only thing that got rid of it.

If you can find an acupuncturist who really knows their stuff they could inject something like Traumeel directly into the site. My new vet said that they inject Zeel for arthritis and it works really well to reduce inflammation and pain.
_________________________
Ruth

Rafi, the german malaroo, age 9.5ish
http://www.dogster.com/dogs/693238

Varda & Gio (the crazy cattens)
...............
Warming my heart:
Queen Cleopatra
Chama
Kai
Basu
Massie

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#233852 - 06/02/12 01:32 AM Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? [Re: BowWowMeow]
MaxaLisa Offline

Global Moderator

Registered: 01/26/10
Posts: 19428
Loc: Northern CA
Likes: 254
I agree with Ruth, it must be so difficult when you are giving him the best, and it just isn't working the way it's supposed to.

I did some googling.....you may have seen these.....I'm thinking that he never stayed still enough to ice?

alternatives for hygroma:
http://www.veterinariaholistica.net/if_case_reports.html
http://med-vetacupuncture.org/english/articles/traumeel.html


Appears a number of folks have used DMSO, also epsom salts, even a steroid injection - just lots of anecdotal stories that might give you an idea of some options to try:
http://www.greatdanelady.com/articles/elbow_hygromas_bursas.htm
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/bulletins.read?mnr=28491&pagen=1
http://forums.barrelhorseworld.com/forum/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=329214
http://dolforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16757

http://www.rottweiler.net/forums/vets-corner/37869-elbow-hygromas.html
http://forums.barrelhorseworld.com/forum/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=329214
http://www.indiadivine.org/audarya/ayurveda-health-wellbeing/954969-elbow-hygroma-dog.html (do you know anyone that knows pranic healing???)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1150517
http://www.worldmastiffforum.com/post?id=3563238 (last post was informative)
http://mastiffmessageboard.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=3121199

I wonder if he would sleep on an air bed, they are pretty cool if you don't use a cover?


Edited by MaxaLisa (06/02/12 01:33 AM)
_________________________
MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/

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#233868 - 06/02/12 05:41 AM Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? [Re: MaxaLisa]
bianca Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/14/10
Posts: 8875
Loc: Queensland. Australia
Likes: 149
Gosh thank you all so much ladies hugging I admit I have been close to tears all day today, it is obviously bothering him. I re=dressed it and to me, it looks bloody awful. There is swelling probably bigger than a golf ball still.

I think I will call on Monday and see if they can just take them out asap as I really don't think they are making any or a significant difference. Other than he is beyond sensitive when he sees me coming with the bag of supplies.

The Dogleggs, well I can' seem to fit them right. They are firm and fit well when standing but when he is lying down, they gap at the elbow and he licks and removes the wrap. I stopped and got more dressings from the horse supply shop today and the lady remembered me. She suggested a loose hair tie over the gaping parts. I am drying the dogleggs out at the moment (wet from him licking) and then will try that.

Pat, I do appreciate you taking the time to ask. That is so kind of you thank you hugging It's so hard to know what to do as 5 vets (2 specialists) have said that the drains were the second step after the needle aspiration.

I think I may see what happens once the drains are removed and then ask for a referral. It's a shame that the nearest specialists are in the city (4 hour drive each way) but so be it.

Ruth, thank you I admit I haven't checked yet but I will phone around Monday morning. I have to try everything now.

Lisa, once again thank you so much for taking the trouble to provide all those links. I will read through them a bit later.

Thank you all again and sorry for the ongoing novel hugging

Today, back to green.

_________________________
Molly Moo (aka The Piranha, 4 legged mouth) GSD (31/10/09)
Cooper GSD (The Gremlin) 19/10/11
Texas - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free sweet Teppie
Paris - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free my beautiful girl.

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#233873 - 06/02/12 06:56 AM Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? [Re: bianca]
Good_Karma Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/16/10
Posts: 2814
Loc: Belfast, NY
Likes: 203
Just hugging. And more hugging
_________________________
Leah

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#233876 - 06/02/12 07:23 AM Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? [Re: Good_Karma]
bianca Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/14/10
Posts: 8875
Loc: Queensland. Australia
Likes: 149
Thank you Leah hugging

I've just read the above links and they all say not to drain them frown But his last one was massive (95mls of fluid) so I don't think I could have left it?

I see a few of the links mention DMSO? What is that? I have some Ichthammol ointment which is also mentioned so I could try that once the skin has healed after drain removal.

Off to google holistic vets in this hick town.
_________________________
Molly Moo (aka The Piranha, 4 legged mouth) GSD (31/10/09)
Cooper GSD (The Gremlin) 19/10/11
Texas - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free sweet Teppie
Paris - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free my beautiful girl.

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#233878 - 06/02/12 08:04 AM Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? [Re: Good_Karma]
Qyn Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 1964
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Likes: 47
Bianca, everyone knows you only have Cooper's best interest at heart - he and Molly could not have a better owner. Plus, it is all too easy for any of us to get on the internet and search for answers or alternative treatments when it seems Cooper is not getting better but that is because we care about Cooper and we care about you - but only you and your vets are there on the spot so no doubt have a better viewpoint.

Having had a scientific background, I probably often tend to see and write things clinically first but I certainly don't mean to be as critical as I can appear to be and that is one reason why I choose not to post in certain threads - sorry if anything I have said has upset you. hugging
_________________________
Alison
~~~~~~~~~~
Nix (derivative of Phoenix) Black GSD born 6 June 2011 (Gotcha day 9 Dec 2013)

Quynne gsdhalo - Black Female GSD - Sept 29, 2004 - 11 Nov 2013 Deeply missed

If you don't agree with me ... you are just not listening well enough. smile

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