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#227050 - 04/25/12 07:32 AM Re: Separation Anxiety [Re: Good_Karma]
shepnterrier Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/13/10
Posts: 2032
Loc: MA
Likes: 79
My foster puppy, too. The high pitched screaming was unnerving, as was her distress. Patricia McConnell has a neat, short booklet with good advice:
"I'll be home soon"
http://www.patriciamcconnell.com/product/dog-separation-anxiety

Her puppy primer is also excellent:
http://www.patriciamcconnell.com/product/the-puppy-primer
As are all of her books, incl. these short manuals for the busy owner:
http://www.patriciamcconnell.com/category/dog-training-books
If you order from Amazon (Affiliate link), I think if you order 4 you get the 4th one free.

One tool from her book is to give the dog a highly valuable chew treat and then immediately leave. Come back shortly and take the treat away. Lesson: This super treat (marrow bone, extra yummie stuffed Kong, etc) is available only while you are at a distance that triggers the distress response. Be that out of the room, down the hallway, or out of the house.

If you can identify any triggers such as taking the phone or keys, you can desensitize by taking them while rewarding puppy, and then not proceeding to make a call of go out of the door.

With previous dogs I found that building confidence by training can resolve the issue. And lots of playing together always helps bonding. But with the current foster, I have to use more tools.
_________________________
Sarah
Chip vom Dog Pound, border terrior, Director of Rodent Control, CGC
Elly von Rescue, GSD, CGC, HI(C)
Captain Jack, Mama Blue, Little Orca, Bübchen, Tux, Cherub (pocket lions)


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#227243 - 04/25/12 11:44 PM Re: Separation Anxiety [Re: shepnterrier]
Wisc.Tiger_Val Offline
Member First - Owner Second "The Watcher"

Registered: 01/18/10
Posts: 8649
Loc: Wisconsin
Likes: 255
Lisa I was going to suggest the DAP plug in. Another thought is part of this is visual stimulation, the dogs got all excited in the pound when someone came to look at them and had to compete with all the other dogs for attention. So she sees you and goes back into pound mode. Raya was and can still be that way at times. I am lucky she isn't a chewer because I just throw a sheet over her crate, she is OK if she hears me but when she first came her she would go a bit nuts when she saw me. Now it only happens if she is on overload.

You might want to go to some thrift stores and buy some small kid shirts and just try a t-short on her and see what she does. Like an anxiety wrap.

She also sounds like a good candidate for working some T-Touch on her.

I wouldn't want to not have her crate trained, if you want to do any type of sport the dogs have to be crated.
_________________________
Val da Tiger

Fuzzybutt the cat.

RIP Cheyenne - AKA: Digger, CheyChey Girl, Cheyenne Large and In charge. 2/16/02 - 2/27/16
RIP DeeDee - AKA: DD Poo, Little Bit, Binky (part of the Binky and Booboo team) 6/23/02-6/20/11
RIP Lakota - AKA: Bubba, Big Boy, BooBoo (the other part of the Binky and BooBoo team). 1/19/03-9/19/2011
RIP Raya - AKA: Raz-a, Ray a Sunshine, RayBestos, the little one, Silly Girl. 9/21/05 - 6/27/14

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#227261 - 04/26/12 01:07 AM Re: Separation Anxiety [Re: Wisc.Tiger_Val]
MaxaLisa Offline

Global Moderator

Registered: 01/26/10
Posts: 19428
Loc: Northern CA
Likes: 254
Sarah, thanks for the booklet recommendations. I have a number of hers, but not the specific two that you mentioned. It's been years since I read a training book all the way through - been out of the loop!

Val, I had thought about ordering a thundershirt, then didn't - this was before all this became apparent. Those thundershirts I like in general. I willl have to look at the DAP.

I hadn't thought about the visual aspect of it, and it makes complete sense. As I went back to say goodbye at the shelter, since she had to be spayed the next day, her and her kennel mate were pushing each other out of the way to get higher and to be seen. I should also add that going to a shelter just breaks my heart...

I took her to work today, and she is getting better about not freaking out in the crate in the car, having gone a few places so far where good things happened AND we return here where she goes nuts for awhile, I'm thinking to be relieved that this is where we came back to. It really takes her awhile to "come down" from either me returning, or both of us returning here.

This morning, instead of leaving her in the crate downstairs (that is too large), I am using a borrowed crate for now that is okay length wise, but a touch short for my leggy girl, and I put that outside the bathroom door and I left the door open while I took a shower. She still couldn't see me behind the curtain, but she didn't yelp once, even when I was out and walking down the hall getting dressed and reading, but I couldn't push it too far.

Once I don't have to deal with these spay sutures and cone, hopefully I will be able to leave goodies and rewards to help witb this.

Guess we'll see what happens next...
_________________________
MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/

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#227267 - 04/26/12 03:09 AM Re: Separation Anxiety [Re: MaxaLisa]
BowWowMeow Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/11/10
Posts: 4747
Loc: Buffalo
Likes: 127
That booklet is great--that's what I used when I adopted Rafi and he had SA. I was unable to leave him at all b/c he was hurting himself in the crate and I would come home and he was hysterical--drooling, hyperventilating, etc.

He did ok in the back of my truck (probably because he travelled in it for 7 hours from his foster home) so I left him in there for the first couple of months he was with me. In the house I let him follow me everywhere until he learned the stay command. Then I would use the stay command so that he got used to being separated from me for a few minutes in the house.

Once I finished McConnell's protocol Rafi did great. I left him loose and he was fine. I think it took 7 weeks. He has also travelled quite a bit with me and stayed in different houses and does ok now (but he was a little iffy with that at first).

I still don't make a big deal out of comings and goings.
_________________________
Ruth

Rafi, the german malaroo, age 9.5ish
http://www.dogster.com/dogs/693238

Varda & Gio (the crazy cattens)
...............
Warming my heart:
Queen Cleopatra
Chama
Kai
Basu
Massie

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#227401 - 04/26/12 05:26 PM Re: Separation Anxiety [Re: BowWowMeow]
PositiveDog Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 4876
Loc: Ohio
Likes: 131
Sometimes I think we are too quick to think SA when maybe it is just a stage or reaction to so many changes.

I also think they pick up on our fears more easily than we think they might. Keep an upbeat and positive attitude and don't be hesitant about leaving Jazzy, whether for a few ours or just to go out of sight for a few minutes.

As Ruth said, make your comings and goings very low key and matter of fact. Especially upon return I would not even make eye contact. Go about your business for a few minutes, going in and out of the room with no words.

After a few minutes it will be like you never left and you can more easily and calmly connect again with Jazzy.

When, leaving give a special treat or toy, tell her "I'll be back soon" and just go. (Repetition is a great teacher as you know - she will learn that "I'll be back" means to settle in and wait for your return.) Assume they she be fine and she probably will be. If she does "scream" when you are out of sight, don't return until it is quiet. Last thing you want to do is make that work for her. rofl

I am not at all discounting real SA. I think that is tragic and the dog must have such fear and need major help. frown

Shelter dogs have so little contact and one on one and may have come very sad pasts - she may just be afraid it will all go away. She will soon learn you are dependable and will trust you to return to her.

Just my 2c
_________________________
Bonnie

www.dogtors.com

With approval of my friends:

SamCat, 03/2011

Seiko, Solo, Sophie, Skye and Buddy - bridge dogs who taught me so much

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#227826 - 04/29/12 12:06 PM Re: Separation Anxiety [Re: PositiveDog]
MaxaLisa Offline

Global Moderator

Registered: 01/26/10
Posts: 19428
Loc: Northern CA
Likes: 254
I do think part of the issue is fear that this will all end, and the visual thing that Val brought up is dead on too from my recent observations.

It is a form of separation anxiety, because you can see the sheer panic and anxiety. I will be right there, and she's panting, bug-eyed, drooling - in a sheer state of panic - it isn't pretty at all frown . It is very closely related to being crated or kenneled. Once we get past this, I hate to think how her first stay at the vet's will be...

Yesterday, when doing some yardwork, I put her on a tie out with her new comfort flex harness. I generally don't like tie-outs (Max would bust through them), but she fairly quickly learned where the end of the tie-out was after I work with her to show her (I so worry about them jamming themselves up), and for a long time, stayed at the end just staring at me. However, shortly after, she was off staring at other things, which I consider a huge success. Just to get her away from me physically and fairly content is a pretty step.

When I had to use the cone, I'd come home to the cone half-off. The donut thing somehow ended up in a weird spot on her body, but thankfully that's behind us and I can leave her in the crate with a kong.
_________________________
MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/

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#230550 - 05/14/12 12:34 PM Re: Separation Anxiety (jazz update) [Re: MaxaLisa]
MaxaLisa Offline

Global Moderator

Registered: 01/26/10
Posts: 19428
Loc: Northern CA
Likes: 254
So, while I've been working, and sick, we've made little progress.

I have learned that she has no issues with the crate, she will wander in throughout the day on her own with no problem, but it's a visual thing with me.

I left a recorder on, for the first 50 min she is yelping and crying and rocking and pawing the crate. Then she settles, and repeats this for about 5-7 minutes every 1/2 hour. Some of that quiet time she has a kong which only gets 1/2 empty, she is too stressed I guess. The other part of the time I suspect she is chewing on the bars. She has some scuff marks on her K9's already, and I'm worried about her teeth.

The shower is a good example. I had been crating her. She goes nuts when I go behind the shower curtain. Below, if you can make it out, are the bent bars on top of the kennel from her.
http://pbr47.photobucket.com/albums/f179/other95/Jazwell/IMG-20120514-00279.jpg


I had tried to leave her out of the kennel before, and just keep her in the bathroom area with her treat (then a bully stick), but she couldn't handle it. Once I went behind the curtain, she started with the panic, and at one point was even pawing on the door to get out...

Today we made progress for the first time. I have an antler shaved in half for her which she only gets when I shower. She has a mat upstairs that she knows is hers to get treats on. I put that in the bathroom with the antler. She did freak when I went behind the curtain, but let her peek into the shower a bit and splashed her with water so she understood better. Then she went back to her treat. We had to do that several times, but we managed a successful shower with minimal yipping and no further damage to her teeth.

Of course, as I crated her to leave, she already started chewing on the bars frown

Got the DAP diffuser (damn, just realized I plugged it in upside down headbang ).
_________________________
MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/

Top Likes: 0 
#230557 - 05/14/12 01:04 PM Re: Separation Anxiety (jazz update) [Re: MaxaLisa]
Wisc.Tiger_Val Offline
Member First - Owner Second "The Watcher"

Registered: 01/18/10
Posts: 8649
Loc: Wisconsin
Likes: 255
Lisa for bar chewers the only thing I found that worked for DeeDee was to secure a piece of Lexan the exact size so it meets up with either the door frame or the crate frame. You don't want any space that a toenail could get hooked on if she paws. Make sure she can't cut herself on the edges or duct tape the edges.

The problem with this is that it cuts down the amount of air, so you have to possibly drill air holes in the crate, spaced so she can't get her teeth hooked in them. Plus I had a small fan that I set up next to the crate to push air into the crate.

She is a smart little cookie and if she ever gets out of a crate by chewing or pulling on the bar area look out. DeeDee was never safe in a wire crate because of her ability to escape, then she figured out how to bend and pull in the heavier chrome doors on a VariKennel. That is when I figured out the Lexan so she couldn't get her teeth on the bars.

Have you tried a body wrap or Thundershirt type item with her. Once DeeDee figured out that the Thundershirt was a nice calming thing she liked it. Again I would use fan to move air to make sure she didn't over heat.

Also Tranquil Tabs or Rescue Remedy.

I had to crate DeeDee for her safety. If I wasn't here and she panicked, she was trying to escape or escape to find me, but no place just escape to run. I have 6 panel oak doors that were decorated by her, one or two window frames that were DeeDee decorated. I always had a fear of her getting out a window or breaking a window.
_________________________
Val da Tiger

Fuzzybutt the cat.

RIP Cheyenne - AKA: Digger, CheyChey Girl, Cheyenne Large and In charge. 2/16/02 - 2/27/16
RIP DeeDee - AKA: DD Poo, Little Bit, Binky (part of the Binky and Booboo team) 6/23/02-6/20/11
RIP Lakota - AKA: Bubba, Big Boy, BooBoo (the other part of the Binky and BooBoo team). 1/19/03-9/19/2011
RIP Raya - AKA: Raz-a, Ray a Sunshine, RayBestos, the little one, Silly Girl. 9/21/05 - 6/27/14

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#230590 - 05/14/12 02:13 PM Re: Separation Anxiety (jazz update) [Re: Wisc.Tiger_Val]
shepnterrier Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/13/10
Posts: 2032
Loc: MA
Likes: 79
Have faith and keep working on it, she will overcome it. A Kong might not be good enough, have you tried a marrow bone or bully stick? Give it to her, leave it for one minute and then come back and take it away. These super super value things should only be available to her when you are out of sight, never when you are with her.

A sure bet to boost her confidence is training by 'shaping' behaviors. Once they get the knack of it, it is very empowering. Talk to the Chipster about it!

Rescued pups (incl. the one I currently have in training) often have never been alone, there were either with litter mates or shared a kennel at the shelter. Also, it is unlikely that anyone ever took them away from mom and siblings for a few minutes and did good things with them. That practice gets them used early on to some mild stress and to the experience that good things happen when briefly separated from mom and the puppy pile, and yes the world does not come to an end. So frustration tolerance is often a major issue, and they have not had an early experience that they can actually handle the world while alone. Thus confidence boosting training techniques are so important.

Hope finals are over, you can catch up on eating and sleeping, relax, and have fun with your pup!
_________________________
Sarah
Chip vom Dog Pound, border terrior, Director of Rodent Control, CGC
Elly von Rescue, GSD, CGC, HI(C)
Captain Jack, Mama Blue, Little Orca, Bübchen, Tux, Cherub (pocket lions)


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#230610 - 05/14/12 03:11 PM Re: Separation Anxiety [Re: Good_Karma]
anniej Offline
Addict

Registered: 12/17/11
Posts: 607
Likes: 39
Some homeopathy help - Ignatia 30c am and Pulsatilla 30c for one week - helps release fear of abandoment

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