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#24826 - 03/27/10 02:37 AM Re: perianal fistulas - scared for skye [Re: PositiveDog]
BowWowMeow Online   swirl
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/11/10
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How is Skye doing?
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#24844 - 03/27/10 04:51 AM Re: perianal fistulas - scared for skye [Re: BowWowMeow]
MaxaLisa Offline

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I've been wondering too.....
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MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

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#24867 - 03/27/10 09:39 AM Re: perianal fistulas - scared for skye [Re: MaxaLisa]
PositiveDog Offline
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Registered: 02/20/10
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Thank you for asking. Skye goes back to see her vet Tuesday evening. While she is playful and cuddly, she is not doing well.

Her sores look bad and she is in pain. She is in some distress when she has to poop - sometimes jumps after starting to, before she finishes.

I am faithfully doing the desitin in the morning and tacrolimus in the evening and the cipro, but I don't know if it isn't working or if it is too early.

When I first took Skye it was more redness and swelling - my gut tells me the fistulas had to open on the surface before the med could do it's thing. I hope that is correct, because that is what it appears to have done.

Lisa - you told me to get hydraluronic acid (I am sure I spelled that wrong) and I have not. Last night I could see Skye was limping so it is my fault. I have to find some today.

I am hoping the vet can give me more insight.

Interesting side note:

Yesterday I took the day off work and went to the Pet expo in Columbus. There I had a free consultation with a pet communicator. I gave him Skye's picture (her therapy dog business card) with no comments.

He thought for awhile and said 'Skye is having some difficulties.' "yes' It seems to be in her back legs or joints.' I said no - then last night she was limping. Hmmm. He also said Skye was very proud of her work and does not want to stop.

Then - I met some people selling joint compounds and stopped because the one I get is going to be harder to get around here. Not only is their product completely natural and has no chicken base, it contains HA. She asked if I knew what that was talked about it with me for some time.

I will post that contact later so you can take a look at it.

Amazing coincidences, right?

Thanks for reading all this.
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Bonnie

With approval of my friends:

SamCat, 03/2011

Seiko, Solo, Sophie, Skye and Buddy - bridge dogs who taught me so much

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#24874 - 03/27/10 09:51 AM Re: perianal fistulas - scared for skye [Re: PositiveDog]
JeanKBBMMMAAN Offline
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Registered: 01/18/10
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hugging

Hoping things get better.
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#24909 - 03/27/10 11:04 AM Re: perianal fistulas - scared for skye [Re: JeanKBBMMMAAN]
kutzro357 Offline
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Registered: 02/21/10
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Loc: Pocono`s, Pa
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Hope Skye improves. What I think you`re finding is there are lot`s of things out there but how do you discern fact from fiction and real treatments from wishful treatments.
For me, I trust my vet. We make one change at a time and see what happens, we then either change it or sometimes we try a combo. I had stopped the cyclo and keta but when Lisa turned me on to Walgreen's script plan we`re back on at 1/2 dose.
My vet doesn`t like antibiotics or vaccinations with PF dogs as you already have an immune system that`s attacking the do and then you introduce antibiotics and vaccines that stimulate it more.

For me, I will keep Ruger as comfortable as possible but when it gets too bad for him we will say good-bye. Hopefully we have a number of years left.
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"If I only had three words of advice, they would be, Tell the Truth. If got three more words, I'd add, all the time."
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#24969 - 03/27/10 01:37 PM Re: perianal fistulas - scared for skye [Re: kutzro357]
PositiveDog Offline
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Kutro; If Skye would do good on cyclo I would get it and already looked into Walgreens. However, because she has other autoimmune problems, we (both the vet and I) are hesitant to use a systematic immune suppresant. Skey does get cyclo in her eyes for Pannus, but that is topical.

I stopped Skye's vaccines before all this and this vet was glad to hear that.

We have just started this journey and I hope it gets better. All or you have been great help to me - the support alone is priceless.

I am learning more every day - one of things I have learned is that there is no "one treatment fits all" for this illness.

Skye is tough - we will find what works best for her and live each great day together.

Thank you.
_________________________
Bonnie

With approval of my friends:

SamCat, 03/2011

Seiko, Solo, Sophie, Skye and Buddy - bridge dogs who taught me so much

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#24979 - 03/27/10 02:10 PM Re: perianal fistulas - scared for skye [Re: PositiveDog]
MaxaLisa Offline

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kutzro, I hope your boy is responding to treatment?

Bonnie, it's funny the reasoning why not to use the cyclosporine, since that's the same reasoning that my Derm and vet said to use it! They thought that since he had more systemic immune dysfunction, that the systemic cyclosporine would work very well for him. It made sense to me actually.

Max's did respond to antibiotics, but then again, I use doxy, which has a lot of anti-inflammatory effects. Max's inflammation responds to Doxy and Rimadyl (used after a tooth extraction), but not to Metacam or cyclosporine - he makes no sense to me. High dose doxy and low dose Cipro was working very well for Max, but the Derm was nervous about using cipro at a low dose and creating restistance, so I switched to doxy and amoxi, which is still working to hold things, so far, I think, I hope.

I'm really sorry to hear that Skye is so painful. It's one thing to be uncomfortable, and another to be in outright pain. I gather the fistula(s) have opened up and look terrible frown I hate that. If they continue to open, then you know that the treatment is not working. Once they open, that should allow them to heal. I've got a spot on Max I'm watching very carefully, not sure if it's a new bubble or irritation from him when he gets at it.

If you go the cyclo route, the next step if the cipro doesn't work, I would definitely add the ketoconazole. Not only does it allow less cyclo to be used, but with the GSD susceptibility for fungus, it's added insurance.'

It sounds like you found a good product to try. You will have to give us an update on how it works out. I like all the standard joint stuff, but I think that the HA adds something.

Hugs to you and Skye, you're both such troopers!
_________________________
MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/

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#25100 - 03/27/10 08:24 PM Re: perianal fistulas - scared for skye [Re: MaxaLisa]
PositiveDog Offline
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Loc: Ohio
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Lisa;

I found HA at Vitamin world - it is 50 mg. Is that too much to give Skye a day?

I am going to have to write all these things down for my vet - I wonder if I am confused or she is? I think the more I read, the more confused I become. thinking

My understanding is that it is good to suppress the immune system where needed for things like Skye's eyes, it would not be good to suppress her total system. Is that not right??

I may have to follow up Skye's visit Tuesday with the dermatologist with MedVet. I took Skye to their office in Columbus for her eyes, but I thought my vet in Troy would work out. I still believe in her - will see what Tuesday brings.

Here is the new joint product I found that sounds good to me. They used this initially for horses and created one for dogs.

If is in a cookie form, just taking two a day. Skye and Buddy sampled one and liked the taste. It has the HA in it (10 mg per treat.)

http://www.majestys.com/bb_flex.php

I also saw this one, but would have to continue the HA separately. It is powder form, like the one I currently use:

http://www.hiltonherbs.com/products/mobility-support/210

Your thoughts?
_________________________
Bonnie

With approval of my friends:

SamCat, 03/2011

Seiko, Solo, Sophie, Skye and Buddy - bridge dogs who taught me so much

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#25219 - 03/28/10 12:58 AM Re: perianal fistulas - scared for skye [Re: PositiveDog]
MaxaLisa Offline

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Posts: 19487
Loc: Northern CA
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For the HA, 50 mg is not too much. I don't know what the dose for a GSD should be, but for right now, I have Max on 100mg per day, and Indy on 50 mg per day. I am taking less than that myself to keep costs down.....darn dogs!

The first product contains all the things for the health of the joint, that you would use to prevent or slow further deterioration: glucosamine, chondroitin, msm, vit C, HA.

The second product, with msm and bamboo, looks like they have some nutrients that are good for the joints (the bamboo looks like it might contain silica and a few other things, I don't know much about it). The other ingredients are primarily antiinflammatories, which help keep the joints moving, but don't help as much with the structure of the joint as the other product.

The first one is more about the health of the joints. For a dog that is showing joint symptoms, I don't know if that alone will do the trick. You might have to add another product.

Okay, about the cyclosporin and systemic suppression. I went back and was reading one of the genetic papers on PF. There are two major things to note. The first is that they have noted a lot of Staph bacteria with most PF's. (I'm glad I read that, because I was hoping to stop the Tylan for Max, but that is effective against Staph, so probably not a good idea.)

The second thing is the genetic component to PF's. I have a student with Crohn's disease, that has tested positive for a gene that makes him susceptible to that disease, but also to a disease that causes a lot of spine problems, and I think there might also be something else that i can't remember.

They think that they have found a genetic link to PF's, and I think it may be similar to the crohn's disease issue. Although a PF is right in that anal region, it is not a disease of just that area. It is about the immune system as a whole. So treating with the cyclo really may be treating the whole body with something that might benefit it in the long run.

Now, the problem with this is that immune suppression as a whole, invites other infections, invites cancer, and the serious drugs also have implications for the liver, which processes the drug. You don't want to use the Cipro for the long term either though.

I held off as long as I could to try the cyclo, but I did when it was clear he needed help (I was very disappointed when it didn't work for him). Sean Rescue Mom has had Sean on cyclo and also doxy/niacinamide and other stuff in treating Sean for his very serious autoimmune condition, he is doing great. Sometimes their bodies require this.

How old is Skye?
_________________________
MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/

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#25281 - 03/28/10 01:10 PM Re: perianal fistulas - scared for skye [Re: MaxaLisa]
PositiveDog Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 4921
Loc: Ohio
Likes: 136
This great information. Lisa. Where is the magic wonder drug that helps everything, tho. hammer

Skye will be 7 in October. Not quite a senior and behaves more like 3. She is tall, 26 1/2 inches and her weight stays between 58 and 60 all the time. She is a long slender dog.

I am going to give her just 1 HA capsule, 50mg, a day for now - opening it and putting it in her food. Up to now, her joint health has been good and I have used a daily joint powder as preventative.

I will be changing her daily one (due to no longer being available) and I keep going back and forth on the two products I mentioned.


I love to see the 'Sean' updates - he is a special dog and Marlene takes such great care of him.

Thanks again - I am taking a lot of notes.
_________________________
Bonnie

With approval of my friends:

SamCat, 03/2011

Seiko, Solo, Sophie, Skye and Buddy - bridge dogs who taught me so much

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