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#276705 - 03/24/13 01:55 PM Food Guarders - What method would you use?
PositiveDog Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 4876
Loc: Ohio
Likes: 131
OK, I've lost this twice trying to post it. So here is the short version.

I thought this would be a great conversation starter.

Have you ever had a dog that guards it's food or other resources? What did you try and how did it work out for you and the dog.

Here are two very different styles of training. One more closely fits what I would like to see happen and the other I find, well- abusive.


What do you think? Why?

Example One: Ok - not my style at all. Although I was cringing through most of the video, I had to laugh out loud at the statement "I didn't see that coming." Seriously?! The video is not full length, but it does tell how many minutes the actions took place.

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=dog+...&FORM=VIRE1

Example Two:

Granted, this will be ongoing training. But looking at the posture of this dog and the trainer, I am more confident this will go well. Watch the dog go from somewhat confused to expectant and more relaxed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjpP5EZC7HI
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www.dogtors.com

With approval of my friends:

SamCat, 03/2011

Seiko, Solo, Sophie, Skye and Buddy - bridge dogs who taught me so much

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#276717 - 03/24/13 02:36 PM Re: Food Guarders - What method would you use? [Re: PositiveDog]
Lauri & the Gang Offline
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Registered: 02/18/10
Posts: 824
Loc: SE WI
Likes: 20
This is what I have used (successfully) and recommend to others:

http://www.rawdogranch.com/training/problems/foodguarding.html
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#276719 - 03/24/13 03:03 PM Re: Food Guarders - What method would you use? [Re: PositiveDog]
SunCzarina Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/16/10
Posts: 2157
Loc: West Bay RI
Likes: 15
The second is kinda what I did with Otto. He's almost 5, I still make him sit and give me a kiss before he gets a meal but I don't do the little bit at a time, make nice with Mommy thing anymore. I don't let the kids go jump around him while he's eating but occasionally they forget. Now he just looks at them, when he was younger, he would have growled.

It was so bad with Morgan I had to crate him for meals until she was no longer here. There was no telling her she couldn't give him the stink eye about his dinner and she would never back off if he growled at her. There weren't fights when he was clearly in the wrong but if she was wrong and tried to boss him, I was weeing myself pulling him off her.

The Cesar video is confrontational, a very aggressive stance over her food dish. I wouldn't label it abusive until he kicked her in the chest while she was nailing him. I was laughing waiting for her to do what Otto would have done, bite him in the junk for challenging him. Seriously, I would laugh my hiney off at the thought of Cesar Millan trying to get up in Otto's dinner dish like that.

We've conquered my dog's food aggression without being old school abusive. He's never bit anyone, probably because his growl makes everyone want to walk away and leave him alone. Just leave him alone and let him eat. I tell the kids that all the time, even when I'm cooking in my kitchen and he's eating, I talk to him, Otto, I need to get in the cabinet behind your butt. Otto I need to get to the stove. He knows I don't want his dinner and I'm not going to take it away so he moves.

My dad has those old school methods 'I'm the human, dog will submit to me' One time when I was 10 or 11 I watched him take off his belt and whip our shepherd with it after he dragged the dog home - the dog refused to come when he was called. That dog was headstrong but he'd do anything for me. I was a little girl and didn't think much of it philosophically but my father's strong arm methods taught me a lot about positive training, getting in the dog's head to get what you want from him.

Otto hates my father, wants him to leave because Dad's quick to yell at the kids (for nothing other than acting like kids). When Otto was a yearling and first met my parents, he was in that weird young shepherd place anyway so my father would look at him sternly and tell him to knock it off, and Dad wouldn't back off it. Morgan, Otto's mommy dearest, would lick his face and dance around infront of him trying tell him it's okay but it was never been okay for Otto. I doubt it ever will be okay with my father and Otto.

Otto won't even look at him without growling and Dad's tried to force himself on Otto. Dad's the only person who's ever pushed Otto past a growl, doesn't respect Otto's growl so subsequently, Otto's snap warned him - that's like a fake out I could bite you. So Otto spends a lot of time in his crate when my father's here...

I digressed but it's all part of the same kind of boss hog dog issues I deal with in Otto. Otto's a great dog and I wouldn't change a thing about him now. I'd change a lot of how my father deals with him but when they said you can't teach an old dog new tricks, they meant old MEN.
_________________________
-Jenn

Otto von Hena-c 5/23/08
Penny the Pocket Panther 8/2/10
Venus of Crooked Creek 1/25/13 Vivacious V!!!


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#276728 - 03/24/13 04:06 PM Re: Food Guarders - What method would you use? [Re: Lauri & the Gang]
PositiveDog Offline
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Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 4876
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Lauri, I like that link. Similar to the second video, but even more 'baby steps' which I like. Good foundations and all that. I am going to bookmark that one.

Jenn, I do think the CM video was abusive. His posture, lack of respect for the dog's space and non stop eye contact set the dog up to be fail and then he did not back down until things went further south. I think the dog tried to back off and was not allowed to do that as Cesar jut continued after him. I think the bite was fear, not aggression.



Edited by PositiveDog (03/24/13 04:10 PM)
_________________________
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www.dogtors.com

With approval of my friends:

SamCat, 03/2011

Seiko, Solo, Sophie, Skye and Buddy - bridge dogs who taught me so much

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#276729 - 03/24/13 04:07 PM Re: Food Guarders - What method would you use? [Re: SunCzarina]
MaxaLisa Offline

Global Moderator

Registered: 01/26/10
Posts: 19428
Loc: Northern CA
Likes: 254
Dog Whisperer my a$$, he has just made that situation worse.

embedding it for you Bonnie:



Perfect example of how dangerous his techniques are, particularly for the majority of people watching him.

The second clip, which is pretty clever with the food bowel - would hate to see this dog react to Cesar's technique.


Max was a food guarder when he got here, but not as major as this second clip. (Hard to tell the full extent in the first clip since the dog as been interfered with.) I first had to get him used to me being close, and would do that by tossing good food near the bowl when I got close. Then it went in the bowl. Then I was able to put my had in the bowl while adding to the food.

At some point, I added petting when he was eating. The last step was being able to take the food bowl away, which I did similar to Laurie's philosophy - it's easier to take away food when you are giving some food of greater value.

Being able to take away a raw bone that he was chewing one took a bit of work too, but we got there.
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#276731 - 03/24/13 04:15 PM Re: Food Guarders - What method would you use? [Re: MaxaLisa]
PositiveDog Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 4876
Loc: Ohio
Likes: 131
Thanks, Lisa. thumbup

I have not personally dealt with food aggression even though I have brought adult rescues into my home.

The personal stories are great and reinforces my belief in using positive and respectful techniques and building trust.


Edited by PositiveDog (03/24/13 04:16 PM)
_________________________
Bonnie

www.dogtors.com

With approval of my friends:

SamCat, 03/2011

Seiko, Solo, Sophie, Skye and Buddy - bridge dogs who taught me so much

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#276732 - 03/24/13 04:21 PM Re: Food Guarders - What method would you use? [Re: PositiveDog]
MaxaLisa Offline

Global Moderator

Registered: 01/26/10
Posts: 19428
Loc: Northern CA
Likes: 254
Originally Posted By: PositiveDog

Jenn, I do think the CM video was abusive. His posture, lack of respect for the dog's space and non stop eye contact set the dog up to be fail and then he did not back down until things went further south. I think the dog tried to back off and was not allowed to do that as Cesar jut continued after him.


I agree. I am not sure about the fear part, but wouldn't surprise me.

Some dogs have a greater sense of "fairness" than others, and are more willing to do something if they think things aren't "fair." LOL, I was a bit like this as a kid, and as I've grown up.
_________________________
MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/

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#276755 - 03/24/13 06:08 PM Re: Food Guarders - What method would you use? [Re: MaxaLisa]
SunCzarina Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/16/10
Posts: 2157
Loc: West Bay RI
Likes: 15
That labbie girl looks pretty confident about not wanting dude in her food. With Otto it was very confident 'This is mine' Most of the problem was caused by Morgan. Seemed to get in her head that Luther was senior dog to her and he had taken her food many times. So she was giving Otto the attitude that 'I'm the head dog now and I can take that if I want to.' She didn't really want it, she had zero food motivation, she just liked the idea of telling him she could take it if she wanted. No, no she wasn't going to take food from Otto.

What's interesting is they could take treats side by side and if she didn't catch hers because her eyes were going, he didn't reach right in and steal it. He'd look at her for approval, if you're not going to eat that, can I have it.
_________________________
-Jenn

Otto von Hena-c 5/23/08
Penny the Pocket Panther 8/2/10
Venus of Crooked Creek 1/25/13 Vivacious V!!!


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#276796 - 03/24/13 09:22 PM Re: Food Guarders - What method would you use? [Re: SunCzarina]
Kayos Offline

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Posts: 11662
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I have only had one dog that guarded food and growled at me over the bowl. It was many years ago and I knocked him on his butt. It is all I knew to do. SInce them I always start my pups or new dogs with hand feeding and then graduate to the bowl and add good stuff as I walk by them. Then I reach out for the bowl while dropping better food in it. Then I take the bowl while feeding them better food. I do this off and on for the life of the dog.
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#276811 - 03/24/13 10:43 PM Re: Food Guarders - What method would you use? [Re: Kayos]
SunCzarina Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/16/10
Posts: 2157
Loc: West Bay RI
Likes: 15
Otto only growled at ME once, over his first bone and he was 3 1/2 or 4 months old. I took it away. My kids, only once and that was James, my oldest. James had given him his food and left the box on the floor next to the dish. I told him to pick it up and when he did, Otto grumbled at him. Scared my son and I never asked the kids to feed him after that.
_________________________
-Jenn

Otto von Hena-c 5/23/08
Penny the Pocket Panther 8/2/10
Venus of Crooked Creek 1/25/13 Vivacious V!!!


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