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#276848 - 03/25/13 09:41 AM Re: Food Guarders - What method would you use? [Re: SunCzarina]
BasiaBear Offline
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Registered: 11/29/11
Posts: 1405
Loc: Albany NY
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Over the past year I have watched my roommates gradually turn Bubba into a resource guarder of his bones. He'd be minding his own business, enjoying his rawhide and either of the two roommates would often just take it away from him for no reason, often forcing him to do a slew of tricks- just spewing out commands that the dog didn't understand. And the ones he did understand, and comply with, were not rewarded but followed by even more commands that Bubba just didn't get. He eventually associated Joe and Dan approaching him with them revoking the bone for no good reason and confusing him, and as a result growl and snap. Once, Joe severely scolded him for this and banished him to the back yard. That drove him to be afraid to go out back. They had little understanding of how to effectively communicate with a dog and why their actions drove Bubba to growl and snap at them. All the while it was very clear to me what was happening and I would try my best to explain to them how Bubba perceives these situations.

Even though his owner didn't really care to 'get it', I continually worked with Bubba to attenuate his guarding (and make him not afraid of the back yard anymore). I started by simply approaching and walking away until approaching didn't mean something bad to him. Gradually worked up to sitting next to him, then stroking him, and walking away, never eyeing or minding the bone at all. It was very easy for me to do because I was never one to take it from him anyway. So as a result, he doesn't guard against me at all, I can even take things from him without a problem, but he does still guard with Joe and Dan, but not as much.
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#276860 - 03/25/13 11:23 AM Re: Food Guarders - What method would you use? [Re: SunCzarina]
dano Offline
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Registered: 02/15/10
Posts: 620
Loc: Michigan
Likes: 19
Ceasar is such an maroon, love that video!

I had one pup who was cool until a meaty bone was being guarded,
and I fixed it by preparing for it doning gloves and jean sleeves, and
executed the dreaded alpha-roll 3 times, and then made sure my wife
and adult kids were also able to have it surrendered.

I ain't proud of old school ways before new school ways were learned,
but it extinguished the misbehavior quickly and forever. The way I figured
it at the time was fix it now, he's only going to get bigger. He screamed,
he kicked, it wasn't pretty, but 15 minutes later was a new now, with an understanding what was and what wasn't going to be.

Simply controlling resources is simpler, and over more time works.
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#276865 - 03/25/13 11:55 AM Re: Food Guarders - What method would you use? [Re: dano]
MaxaLisa Offline

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Registered: 01/26/10
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Loc: Northern CA
Likes: 254
frown
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Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
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#276882 - 03/25/13 12:43 PM Re: Food Guarders - What method would you use? [Re: MaxaLisa]
PositiveDog Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 4876
Loc: Ohio
Likes: 131
Quote:
Simply controlling resources is simpler, and over more time works.


Yes, I would hope that would be the way you would choose now. I like to train for the long haul, so I have no problem taking longer to actually teach the dog.

Some people have made me do things in my life and other people have given me information that actually allowed me to make good choices.

As an adult, I have no friends in the first group, but have many in the latter one. Sadly, dogs can't just walk away so it is up to us to choose more respectful and humane methods.

I am enjoying reading the responses. While I am saddened by the choices using force or dominance, it is good to read and learn more about the various positive ways used to control the resources or change the environment to get the results needed.
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#276885 - 03/25/13 12:49 PM Re: Food Guarders - What method would you use? [Re: PositiveDog]
Barb E Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/11/10
Posts: 2275
Loc: Portland, Oregon
Likes: 152
Very interesting topic

I have a friend with a Catahoula Leopard Dog who I saw behaving like that Lab this past Thanksgiving.

I had never seen anything like it in real life and it was very scary!!

The dog had a rawhide and one of the guests didn't know the "don't touch this dog when it has something" rule and reached out to pet him. Patch turned and bit, no warning. It was then my friend's job to get that rawhide from Patch - she worked with a trainer though I'm thinking it was more Cesar style - and she grabbed a tennis racket and eventually got it from him after much snarling and biting the racket. I simply stood on the stairs with my mouth hanging open - I had no idea of how to help or what to do.

I do know that when Patch was just a puppy he growled at her when she reached for a toy and the "breeder" had told her to alpha roll when ever that happened.

Of course where my friend really failed at that dinner party was having the dog loose in the house when there were guests over.
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#276897 - 03/25/13 02:31 PM Re: Food Guarders - What method would you use? [Re: SunCzarina]
Krissy Offline
Member

Registered: 12/12/12
Posts: 180
Loc: New York
Likes: 3
I can't see the link, but I would not tolerate my pups growling at me for food. Once Fluffy tried, and I took it away from her. She missed that meal. The next morning, I went back to the usual pulling of the tail, moving the food dish, playing with the food, playing with her ears, etc. and she was just fine.

Luckily, Dex is so used to us messing with him that I put my hands over his food and he just licks between my fingers to get his kibble. It tickles and he eventually wins because I just can't take it anymore and let him be. If he ever growled at my though, there would be trouble! I would have to make him wait even longer to get his food.

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#276935 - 03/25/13 07:33 PM Re: Food Guarders - What method would you use? [Re: Barb E]
SunCzarina Offline
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Registered: 02/16/10
Posts: 2157
Loc: West Bay RI
Likes: 15
Originally Posted By: Barb E
Of course where my friend really failed at that dinner party was having the dog loose in the house when there were guests over.


worth repeating.

My sisters JRTs became overwhelmed at Thanksgiving, too many new people in addition to their teenagers then you add their little cousins (my kids), an old man who thinks dogs should just do for him as he asks when he has no relationship with them. Those poor little dogs, especially the female, she was growling at me and I finally told my sister to get her away from me, that little dog was scaring me.

One new person, maybe 2 friends my dogs are familiar with but that's where I draw the line and box the dog. I get told all the time when we have company, 'oh let him out', 'he's fine', 'he was so charming the last time I was here'. Nope, he's a german shepherd, when there's too many people, I don't want to take the chance that someone is going to make the wrong move.
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Otto von Hena-c 5/23/08
Penny the Pocket Panther 8/2/10
Venus of Crooked Creek 1/25/13 Vivacious V!!!


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#277741 - 03/29/13 06:42 PM Re: Food Guarders - What method would you use? [Re: SunCzarina]
Codmaster Offline
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Registered: 05/14/10
Posts: 1598
Loc: CA
Likes: 49
Personally, (and this is just my personal opinion and how we have raised all of our numerous GSD's over the year - some US show dogs, one BYB, and a few German working dogs); I could not tolerate a family dog who resisted any family member or friend who wanted to take anything away from them. Food or toys or even real bones - all must come out of the dogs mouth when I take a grip or when I say "Out". No decision on the part of the dog is allowed except "Yes"!

A growl esp. must be dealt with very swiftly and firmly. Obviously if one acquires an adult dog the training is different than if with a puppy tyhat you have had since a little small pup. But the result must be the same!

We have pics for example of a brother in law's 4yo child sitting with his legs around our adult GSD's food bowl (they were visiting us), and handing her the food one kibble piece at a time.

Any other behavior is MUCH too dangerous with a family dog, esp. if any visitors ever come by the house.

Just my own opinion - and I really do understand that not all folks have their dog behave that way. And that is cool (as long as they tell me if I visit them!).

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#277876 - 03/30/13 01:30 PM Re: Food Guarders - What method would you use? [Re: Codmaster]
SunCzarina Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/16/10
Posts: 2157
Loc: West Bay RI
Likes: 15
Define swiftly and firmly. When he growled at me the one time, I dealt with it. Small children (4s and 5 at the time) are not capable, my daughter better than my boys.

I didn't want a dog who didn't growl (warn) and went straight to a bite. The children can take things away from him as an adult. They can be around him while he's eating but even I tell him what I'm doing. I wouldn't put any of my children around his food bowl, that would annoy the dog and why do I want to do that. It's his food. I gave it to him and he'll let me take it away but he doesn't see the kids as superior to him. He's not going to, I gave up on that battle a long time ago.

Right now, he's learning about the puppy... puppy is learning why dogs eat in their crate. Next week, I start with treats so Otto can learn what he learned about being respectful of Morgan. Puppy is a confident little baby bitch so she gets in his face and he's finding little use of her right now, making him edgy...
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-Jenn

Otto von Hena-c 5/23/08
Penny the Pocket Panther 8/2/10
Venus of Crooked Creek 1/25/13 Vivacious V!!!


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#277896 - 03/30/13 04:38 PM Re: Food Guarders - What method would you use? [Re: Codmaster]
MaxaLisa Offline

Global Moderator

Registered: 01/26/10
Posts: 19428
Loc: Northern CA
Likes: 254
Originally Posted By: Codmaster

A growl esp. must be dealt with very swiftly and firmly.

As Jenn alluded to, you have to be careful of this. You don't want to create a dog that doesn't give a warning growl and will strike without warning. You want the growl to diminish naturally as the dogs feels less need to use that warning.
_________________________
MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
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