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#283193 - 05/22/13 08:19 PM Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, clostridium perfringens [Re: m&j]
PositiveDog Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 4921
Loc: Ohio
Likes: 136
Lisa - have you ever considered cholodin for Jazzy? It seems to help older dogs by giving them natural 'things' their bodies no longer produce, or do not produce enough.

I am curious if maybe there is something Jazzy's body is not giving her that it should.

I am so uneducated on these high level health matters, but thinking on my level - would it be worth a try?

If you think it might I can send you a few to try on her.
_________________________
Bonnie

With approval of my friends:

SamCat, 03/2011

Seiko, Solo, Sophie, Skye and Buddy - bridge dogs who taught me so much

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#283232 - 05/23/13 05:04 AM Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, clostridium perfringens [Re: TimberWolf]
MaxaLisa Offline

Global Moderator

Registered: 01/26/10
Posts: 19487
Loc: Northern CA
Likes: 256
Originally Posted By: LMS
It's so much harder not to have any answers..yet, there is evidence that something is wrong. Feels like walking around in a dark room desperately trying to find the light switch. This may be totally ridiculous, so forgive me for my ignorance, but what if you discontinue all supplements and meds....give it two weeks for everything to clear her system and see what happens? Again, this is probably a ridiculous suggestion.

The reason why I am suggesting this is that some of her symptoms are similar to what I experienced which started with a UTI. I took Cipro but when the prescribed allotment was gone, the symptoms were still the same and the urinalysis showed the protein, etc..plus I was shaking as well uncontrollably. The urinalysis results showed that it was not a bladder/kidney infection. It was the freakiest thing. They ran all sorts of tests including inside and outside ultrasounds and could not find anything wrong. I loaded up on supplements per advise of my naturalist doctor during that time and it got worse. When I discontinued the Cipro it continued getting worse to the point where I was in so much pain..especially at night and shaking all night long. I realized that the doctors were of no help (in this case) and I decided to discontinue everything.

I can't say that I noticed getting better immediately...it took at least a month when I noticed some difference. It took a year for all the symptoms to completely clear. Then I started adding some supplements again such as Probiotics and Enzymes but very moderately. I am fine now. I just can't help to see similarities here but I may be wrong. I hope my comment doesn't offend. I am just trying to help. Hugs.

Elvi, no offense at all! It sounds amazingly similar.

The problem here is that after a couple of months, she continues to decine, and bloodwork only gets worse frown if the C Perf doesn't get under control, I could lose her to HGE easily. I am not sure if the tremors and the similar thing you describe are related to that or not.

Very very weird though. Hopefully soon-ish, by july, she will be off of abx.
_________________________
MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/

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#283233 - 05/23/13 05:06 AM Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, clostridium perfringens [Re: PositiveDog]
MaxaLisa Offline

Global Moderator

Registered: 01/26/10
Posts: 19487
Loc: Northern CA
Likes: 256
Originally Posted By: PositiveDog
Lisa - have you ever considered cholodin for Jazzy? It seems to help older dogs by giving them natural 'things' their bodies no longer produce, or do not produce enough.

I am curious if maybe there is something Jazzy's body is not giving her that it should.

I am so uneducated on these high level health matters, but thinking on my level - would it be worth a try?

If you think it might I can send you a few to try on her.


Bonnie, I too have wondered if there is some deficiency.

Did we ever figure out what's in the cholodin?
_________________________
MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/

Top Likes: 0 
#283245 - 05/23/13 08:55 AM Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, clostridium perfringens [Re: MaxaLisa]
Woodreb Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/18/10
Posts: 5435
Loc: New Milford, CT
Likes: 148
Active Ingredient(s)

CHOLODINģ contains: Phosphatidylcholine (from soy lecithin), choline (as chloride), dl-methionine, inositol, zinc (as oxide), niacinamide, vitamin E, thiamine (mononitrate), riboflavin, pyridoxine (HCl), selenium (sodium selenite), vitamin B12 (cobalamin concentrate), and dexpanthenol. Formulated with a flavor base.

From this webiste
_________________________
Johanna

Caleb (aka Caleb-Moose)
Ciara(aka Ciara Belle, Black Devil)

RIP AodhŠn, Rica, Max, Kelly - gone but never forgotten - forever in my heart

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#283251 - 05/23/13 10:03 AM Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, clostridium perfringens [Re: Woodreb]
PositiveDog Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 4921
Loc: Ohio
Likes: 136
Lisa - in one of Skye's pages I added a lengthy list of the ingredients, as posted above, and their purpose.

In the mean time, here is a really good page with info about the ingredients.

http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/entirelypets/cholodininfo.html

And from that link:

Known metabolic functions of some of the components present in CHOLODIN.

Choline:

Dietary factor in preventing fatty liver syndrome

Methyl (CH3) donor for synthesis of many important biological and metabolic compounds.

Precursor of acetylcholine

Component of phosphatidylcholine, a major component of the plasma membrane of mammalian cells

Phospatidylcholine (Lecithin):

Comprises 10% to 50% of plasma membrane of all mammalian cells

Metabolism yields choline for acetylcholine formation

Component of important receptors on cell membrane

Methionine:

Major methyl donor in many biochemical reactions, including synthesis of choline and epinephrine

Important in the inactivation of the neurotransmitters serotonin and the catecholamins

A methionine deficiency interferes with the growth process

Inositol:

Physiological role resembles choline

Present as phosphatidylinositol - a phospholipid of cell membranes and plasma lipoproteins

Vitamin B12:

Important in normal DNA replication

Deficiency results in irreversible damage to the nervous system, including progressive swelling of myelinated neurons, demyelination and cell death in the spinal column and cerebral cortex.

Thiamine:

Essential in two major enzymes in carbohydrate metabolism

Also has a unique role in the function of all excitable cell membranes

Riboflavin:

Functions directly as one of two major enzymes in carbohydrate metabolism

Pyridoxine:

Essential coenzyme in metabolic transformations of amino acids

Deficiency results in abnormalities of the skin, nervous system and erythopoiesis

Seizures due to deficiency may be due to the lowering of gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA)

Niacinamide:

Essential coenzyme in protein metabolism

Deficiency results is abnormalities of skin, nervous system and intestinal tract

Pantothenic Acid:

Coenzyme A us the physiologically active form of pantothenol

Essential in the metabolism of carbohydrates and fats

CHOLODIN also contains Selenium, Vitamin E and Zinc.




Edited by PositiveDog (05/23/13 10:10 AM)
_________________________
Bonnie

With approval of my friends:

SamCat, 03/2011

Seiko, Solo, Sophie, Skye and Buddy - bridge dogs who taught me so much

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#283269 - 05/23/13 12:09 PM Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, clostridium perfringens [Re: MaxaLisa]
TimberWolf Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 01/21/12
Posts: 980
Likes: 137
Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa


The problem here is that after a couple of months, she continues to decine, and bloodwork only gets worse frown if the C Perf doesn't get under control, I could lose her to HGE easily. I am not sure if the tremors and the similar thing you describe are related to that or not.


Gosh, this is so bizarre. We are all scratching our heads here. Poor Jazzy and you Lisa....my goodness...the emotional drain because of this...You deserve a mega blessing once all this has resolved itself. My goodness.
_________________________
...in remembrance of all Timber Wolves unjustifyably hunted down and killed for no valid reason at all.

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#283299 - 05/23/13 03:25 PM Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, clostridium perfringens [Re: TimberWolf]
MaxaLisa Offline

Global Moderator

Registered: 01/26/10
Posts: 19487
Loc: Northern CA
Likes: 256
Thank you Elvi, I am trying to get some of the abx replaced by other more natural things, and will try to speed up the process. Have to focus on what is working, not what we hope will work....

Bonnie, I guess I was thinking of the flavoring, worried about her gut, and hate that they won't share all the ingredients. Thanks for all of that, I tried to do a quick search on my phone, but it wasn't very thorough I guess.

Johanna, thanks for the link and active ingredients!

How long before you noticed a difference? If the new herbal doesn't work wonders, I think this is a logical thing to try. She is starting Six Gentlemen, which is really common in TCM, Max did pretty well on it.


Edited by MaxaLisa (05/23/13 03:35 PM)
_________________________
MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/

Top Likes: 0 
#283714 - 05/27/13 03:13 AM Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, clostridium perfringens [Re: MaxaLisa]
bianca Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/14/10
Posts: 8875
Loc: Queensland. Australia
Likes: 149
Lisa, how is Jazzy doing now?
_________________________
Molly Moo (aka The Piranha, 4 legged mouth) GSD (31/10/09)
Cooper GSD (The Gremlin) 19/10/11
Texas - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free sweet Teppie
Paris - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free my beautiful girl.

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#283757 - 05/27/13 02:54 PM Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, clostridium perfringens [Re: bianca]
MaxaLisa Offline

Global Moderator

Registered: 01/26/10
Posts: 19487
Loc: Northern CA
Likes: 256
Thank you for aking bianca!

She I doing much better. With the new herbal, and she's on amoxicillin with flagyl pulsed, he's doing very well, devouring both her meals. The meals got better about 3 day into the new protocol (the herbal doe help).

I quickly backed off the flagyl, and am not sure what to do about the amoxi. The IMS had talked about uing the amoxi, but went with tylan first, because I stays in the gut more than amoxi. Either this has a more systemic component, or the tylan was getting at the inflammation.

She han't been to day care since Wed, so I don't know about the tremors. She had ome at home the other day, and some in the car on thursday. Will be really interesting to see tomorrow.
_________________________
MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/

Top Likes: 0 
#283758 - 05/27/13 03:36 PM Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, clostridium perfringens [Re: MaxaLisa]
MaxaLisa Offline

Global Moderator

Registered: 01/26/10
Posts: 19487
Loc: Northern CA
Likes: 256
Ugh, I really need to proof for those missing s's. Sorry!
_________________________
MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/

Top Likes: 0 
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