German Shepherd Home
Page 8 of 10 < 1 2 ... 6 7 8 9 10 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#310836 - 03/14/14 06:15 PM Re: Renji health issues - Bloodwork! [Re: aubie]
Braverhund Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/10/10
Posts: 5399
Loc: Massachusetts
Likes: 154
For Smokey's allergies/sensitivities, I had a local carpet cleaning company come (affordable! cheers) and do my main room with a portable system with a green, safe cleaner intended for sensitive/allergic crawling babies. It's called HOST. It's really a bunch of chewed-up tiny bits of sponges, saturated with a non-allergenic cleaning fluid. HOST gets scrubbed vigorously in between the carpet fibers, has to sit for a short while, then gets very strongly vacc'd out with their powerful system. The carpet is then basically nearly dry. And WOW is it clean! Smokey's allergies got better after that. paw peacesign
_________________________
Patti
Frauchen von:

Grimm van den Heuvel, "Donnerpratzen"
Smokey The TeddyLion, DLH purrbuddy

Dir gehört mein Herz

Top Likes: 0 
#310892 - 03/15/14 03:17 PM Re: Renji health issues - test Qs [Re: Diana]
MaxaLisa Offline

Global Moderator

Registered: 01/26/10
Posts: 19428
Loc: Northern CA
Likes: 254
I don't know what is going on with Renji, it sure is a mystery. My "balance" remark was more directed at the bloodwork than the diet though, since those values are not what I would be comfortable with. Definitely no gross abnormalities or things out of range, which is what the vets will look for. The specialists are usually best at looking at things only after they get bad enough to present themselves.

My first thought about the tight stomach, etc. was also that pancreatitis might be a possibility, but the bloodwork and the u/s don't support that, so it's much less likely. I am not convinced that an MRI or CT scan would show a lot, and those are very stressful on the dog.

It does appear that there are significant gut issues though, and probably a good chance that there is inflammation in the gut, from the tightness and also some of the symptoms. I would be addressing that as a first step.

Looking at the bloodwork, if this were my dog, particularly knowing that a raw diet is being fed, these are some of the thoughts that would be going through my head....

A low end protein state doesn't make sense to me in a raw fed dog, and may point towards intestinal absorption problems.

The low globulin, combined with the low neutrophils and low lymphocytes, to me, and I may be wrong, points to a chronic immune suppression. Lower globulin with the higher albumin might be from the high protein diet, but I am still concerned about those low end neut/lymph blood values. The appearance of basophils I wish I knew more about, since I'm dealing with that here. Most dogs don't seem to have those appearing and can be a marker for a certain type of inflammation.

The high bilirubin, since all the other liver values look good, might be from a breakdown of red blood cells, but the reticulocytes (new rbc's) aren't high, so maybe that's not likely. The rbc values though are at the high end, which may be dehydration, or other things. That's often a mystery to me, I've seen it with the dogs here.

Raw fed dogs are more likely to have high end BUN rather creatinine in general, so there might be some stress on the kidneys, something I would watch, but not worry about too much at this point.

I do not understand the high glucose, particularly in a fasted dog. A quick google says that potassium is often given to lower glucose, so maybe this is part of the low potassium issue. Low potassium can affect so many things; I would definitely address this.

The low end phosphorous in a prey model fed dog makes absolute no sense to me.

I would have a nutritionist go over the diet as a first step. Even if the diet is balanced, it could be that he has special needs, but between the phosphorous and postassium, those are enough indications to me that I would want to double check things. This is who I use, but there is also Monica Segal, and others out there: http://www.betterdogcare.com/

The urine looks pretty concentrated, so more fluid through the urinary tract would be helpful. 8.0 is pretty alkaline - Last time Jazz had a u/a, they listed the normal ph as 5.5-7.0, and the normal SG as 1.015-1.050. The anion gap is also low, representing a more alkaline state in the body, perhaps, but I don't know if these are connected; in general I think they need not be.
_________________________
MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/

Top Likes: 0 
#310893 - 03/15/14 03:19 PM Re: Renji health issues - Bloodwork! [Re: Diana]
MaxaLisa Offline

Global Moderator

Registered: 01/26/10
Posts: 19428
Loc: Northern CA
Likes: 254
Originally Posted By: Diana
So I talk to the neurologist again. And then I talk to one of their internal medicine vets. The internal medicine vet says it sounds like a neurological problem. The neuro insists the blood work was fine and doesn't indicate any problem.

And yet, darn dog acts like he ran a marathon after three or four throws of the ball.



All that first paragraph means is that things aren't bad enough for them to know what's wrong frown

Trust your instincts that there is something wrong, though it might be like finding a needle in the haystack frown
_________________________
MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/

Top Likes: 0 
#310894 - 03/15/14 03:45 PM Re: Renji health issues - Bloodwork! [Re: MaxaLisa]
Braverhund Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/10/10
Posts: 5399
Loc: Massachusetts
Likes: 154
I know bloodwork seems normal, but could it be his heart? Even with a normal rhythm, I wonder, due to exercise component that you mention. Renji is a challenging boy, like my Grimmi, to bring to a vet's and ever try anything creative, but... any chance your internal medicine vet could, in an enclosed outdoor area, watch Renji chasing a ball? As anxious as Renji can be, would he run for his ball in a new enclosure if you were throwing it for him? Just a thought, it would be nice for the vet to witness what you witness.
_________________________
Patti
Frauchen von:

Grimm van den Heuvel, "Donnerpratzen"
Smokey The TeddyLion, DLH purrbuddy

Dir gehört mein Herz

Top Likes: 0 
#310895 - 03/15/14 03:59 PM Re: Renji health issues - Bloodwork! [Re: Braverhund]
MaxaLisa Offline

Global Moderator

Registered: 01/26/10
Posts: 19428
Loc: Northern CA
Likes: 254
I think it's always possible Patti. Max had similar fatigue and breath problems, and his heart had undergone significant changes that were secondary to other issues. He was also low potassium in his diet, but not yet in his bloodowrk.


Edited by MaxaLisa (03/15/14 03:59 PM)
_________________________
MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/

Top Likes: 0 
#311278 - 03/20/14 12:26 PM Re: Renji health issues - Bloodwork! [Re: MaxaLisa]
Diana Offline
Addict

Registered: 02/16/10
Posts: 520
Likes: 5
I've been away from a bit but there is no real news. Renji is unfortunately getting very thin. Like greyhound-thin. He is getting about 1.25 lbs/day, which is a little over 2% for a 50 lb dog. He is 45 lbs. Something is up because he is eating the same stuff he always has been. NEVER had issues with absorption. I'd have to look back but during his most active days, he was getting about 1.5 or 1.75 lbs/day which is a LOT for a dog his size, but then again he was extremely active. Nothing has changed in his diet except I pulled out all beef (except liver) from his diet due to gas. Maybe there is something in the supplements that affect values. Raw is generally not considered a high protein diet but I could be wrong.

Can EPI develop out of the blue? He is always acting like he is starving, bowel movements appear mostly normal, and he is eating what I give but... dang dog's wasting away in front of me.

Lisa, I must thank you for an extremely thorough and well thought-out analysis. I *wish* the vets had given me SOMETHING like this other than "normal, bring him back if you're so worried." I don't believe I am bringing him back there. If anything, I'll be taking him back to UF Gainesville. But at this point, I have to weigh the stress. Sedation is very hard on him and just being at the vet is a tremendously stressful event. I could make things worse trying to chase this until we have something more concrete to seek.

I'm to the point of picking up some of that EPI powder to see if that helps. I can't get pancreas regularly enough to rely on that alone.

Thanks to all who suggested cleaning solution alternatives. I'll have to use those to take out the Odoban. Odoban is so far the only thing I've found that destroys the present nicotine/cigarette odors but Odoban is horrible stuff.

Patti, that's a good idea about having Renji play fetch while at the vet. If we go up to Gainesville, I will definitely suggest that. I'm hoping we can see if the Prozac levels him out a bit before we need to go. I don't know if it helps any, but he'll walk just fine. It's a fast walk, too. I have to hoof it to keep up! And he is happy to go on for quite awhile. Why in the world would he not want to play fetch, I don't know. It could be as simple as his hips hurt even though they aren't bad radiographically.
_________________________
Renji - 6ish M GSD x chow rescue

Training @ The Canine Center- St Cloud, FL

"German shepherd dog breeding is working dog breeding or it is not German shepherd dog breeding." -v. Stephanitz

Top Likes: 0 
#311325 - 03/21/14 01:33 AM Re: Renji health issues - Bloodwork! [Re: Diana]
MaxaLisa Offline

Global Moderator

Registered: 01/26/10
Posts: 19428
Loc: Northern CA
Likes: 254
Originally Posted By: Diana
I've been away from a bit but there is no real news. Renji is unfortunately getting very thin. Like greyhound-thin. .....

.....He is always acting like he is starving, bowel movements appear mostly normal, and he is eating what I give but... dang dog's wasting away in front of me.

....I'm to the point of picking up some of that EPI powder to see if that helps. I can't get pancreas regularly enough to rely on that alone.

.... I don't know if it helps any, but he'll walk just fine. It's a fast walk, too. I have to hoof it to keep up! And he is happy to go on for quite awhile. Why in the world would he not want to play fetch, I don't know. It could be as simple as his hips hurt even though they aren't bad radiographically.


Pancreatic Function can decrease over time so that where there weren't symptoms before, you can start seeing them.

But there are also other things that could be going on. Without looking at the bloodwork, it sure sounds a lot like a tick disease. Two things - 1) a negative test does not mean it isn't there, and 2) the bloodwork doesn't strongly support a tick disease, so it's not clear at all....

I would do the following as my starting point....

I would first get those enzymes and slowly add them. If he has big problems with pork, you might have to try something like a plant based one like Similase.

I would also slowly add a probiotic, VERY slowly add a soluble fiber (I like apple pectin), and I would give some B12 sublingual or liquid (cmake sure there is no xylitol), along with a general B-50.
_________________________
MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/

Top Likes: 0 
#311344 - 03/21/14 08:31 AM Re: Renji health issues - Bloodwork! [Re: MaxaLisa]
Braverhund Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/10/10
Posts: 5399
Loc: Massachusetts
Likes: 154
Now that you mention it Lisa, Grimmi got mysteriously super-skinny when he had tick disease. I do think of adding pancreatic enzymes and B12 anyway, but I'm wondering about the weight loss in your boy. I have no answers, just many ongoing well-wishes for a solution to be found for your sweet Renji. crossedfingers
_________________________
Patti
Frauchen von:

Grimm van den Heuvel, "Donnerpratzen"
Smokey The TeddyLion, DLH purrbuddy

Dir gehört mein Herz

Top Likes: 0 
#311345 - 03/21/14 08:52 AM Re: Renji health issues - Bloodwork! [Re: Braverhund]
MaxaLisa Offline

Global Moderator

Registered: 01/26/10
Posts: 19428
Loc: Northern CA
Likes: 254
Originally Posted By: Braverhund
Now that you mention it Lisa, Grimmi got mysteriously super-skinny when he had tick disease.

Yes, it's common frown

But maybe this is EPI/SIBO, which hould be suspect in any dog that has any amount of GSD in them crazy
_________________________
MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/

Top Likes: 0 
#311349 - 03/21/14 12:30 PM Re: Renji health issues - Bloodwork! [Re: MaxaLisa]
Diana Offline
Addict

Registered: 02/16/10
Posts: 520
Likes: 5
Lisa, do you have suggestions for enzymes? I know Viokase and one other are rx-only. What about Bio Case or the stuff from Enzyme Diane? Are they all about the same or are the specifics to get?

Holy snozz they are expensive...
_________________________
Renji - 6ish M GSD x chow rescue

Training @ The Canine Center- St Cloud, FL

"German shepherd dog breeding is working dog breeding or it is not German shepherd dog breeding." -v. Stephanitz

Top Likes: 0 
Page 8 of 10 < 1 2 ... 6 7 8 9 10 >

Monthly Photo Contest Winner
Newest Topics
BOING
by DancingCavy
09:59 AM
Home Cooking for the Pancreatic Pooch?
by Kamahi
12/13/17 04:00 PM
December 2017 Photo Contest Entries.
by Wisc.Tiger_Val
12/12/17 07:47 PM
Comments for December 2017 Photo Contest
by Wisc.Tiger_Val
12/12/17 07:37 PM
More snow
by Sylv
12/12/17 02:07 PM
Excavation
by Woodreb
12/10/17 07:40 PM
First CT Snow
by Woodreb
12/10/17 05:26 PM
Snow dogs.... In North Georgia
by SouthernThistle
12/08/17 01:52 PM
Activated Charcoal for Chronic Pancreatitis?
by Kamahi
12/08/17 01:19 AM
My Dear Shoshi
by Shilohsmom
12/06/17 06:17 PM
Help Support the Forum
New Topics - Other Animals & Chat
Happy Hanukkah to our Jewish members!
by Braverhund
12/12/17 09:51 PM
"I CAN:T Believe it happened again"
by Shilohsmom
12/01/17 10:33 PM
Holiday cards
by Shilohsmom
12/01/17 10:20 PM
Holidays in December
by Shilohsmom
11/27/17 11:07 PM
Thanksgiving Plans anyone?
by Shilohsmom
11/18/17 09:51 PM
Who's Online
2 registered (Woodreb, DancingCavy), 34 Guests and 2 Spiders online.
Affiliate Link
Newest Members
BaneGSD, Zion, Susan dawn, Po32273, Storm, Jalena4, Lemonfield1, Dysie, Dan Wolf, Kimbe's 3
2864 Registered Users
Forum Stats
2864 Members
100 Forums
20334 Topics
324509 Posts

Max Online: 137 @ 01/07/16 07:28 PM
Amazon Prooducts