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#328978 - 02/02/15 08:42 AM Let's talk about longevity or lack in the GSD
Wisc.Tiger_Val Offline
Member First - Owner Second "The Watcher"

Registered: 01/18/10
Posts: 8792
Loc: Wisconsin
Likes: 268
I have been blessed to have 2 GSD's to reach 13 years of age (well technically Cheyenne won't be 13 until Feb. 16th). I think about this off and on through the years.

First GSD was good old American lines (before they became popular for show) and (cough) the sire was the police canine (was suppose to be used for breeding). He lived to 13 1/2 years old.

Current GSD is West German Showline and what we not would call BYB (no titles minimal health certifications).

So neither had any line breeding.

Are we sacrificing long term health for the perfect looking or perfect drives? Have we lost or soon to loose healthy GSD's who are 10 plus years?

This is for breeders: Do breeders look at the longevity when selecting their breeding pairs? Have we lost some of this due to Line Breeding?
_________________________
Val da Tiger

Fuzzybutt the cat.
Neilla the Big White puppy.

RIP Cheyenne - AKA: Digger, CheyChey Girl, Cheyenne Large and In charge. 2/16/02 - 2/27/16
RIP Raya - AKA: Raz-a, Ray a Sunshine, RayBestos, the little one, Silly Girl. 9/21/05 - 6/27/14
RIP Lakota - AKA: Bubba, Big Boy, BooBoo (the other part of the Binky and BooBoo team). 1/19/03-9/19/2011
RIP DeeDee - AKA: DD Poo, Little Bit, Binky (part of the Binky and Booboo team) 6/23/02-6/20/11

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#328982 - 02/02/15 11:46 AM Re: Let's talk about longevity or lack in the GSD [Re: Wisc.Tiger_Val]
Woodreb Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/18/10
Posts: 5435
Loc: New Milford, CT
Likes: 148
My experience seems rather similar to yours, Val.

Of my 5 GSDs, the longest lived was Rica, a Black & Silver from a BYB. She lived to 13 years old. From a longevity point of view, she did well. She did have HD, which I controlled by keeping her weight down and supplements. We had explored various surgical options, but the orthopedic vet told me that because of a couple of other issues in her back, he did not recommend surgery. Her progonosis was crippled by eight. I found that keeping her weight down, supplements and easy exercise did well for her and it wasn't until the last year or so (~12) that she became pretty crippled and needed help getting around.

Aodhan and Kelly both died of cancer, both around 9 years old.

So far, KW, Caleb and Ciara are pretty healthy, although Caleb has problems with seasonal allergies.

Rica - American Lines
Kelly - American Lines
Aodhan - West German Show
Caleb - West German
Ciara - DDR


Edited by Woodreb (02/02/15 11:52 AM)
_________________________
Johanna

Caleb (aka Caleb-Moose)
Ciara(aka Ciara Belle, Black Devil)

RIP AodhŠn, Rica, Max, Kelly - gone but never forgotten - forever in my heart

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#328983 - 02/02/15 11:47 AM Re: Let's talk about longevity or lack in the GSD [Re: Wisc.Tiger_Val]
Codmaster Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 05/14/10
Posts: 1612
Loc: CA
Likes: 49
as far as I know line breeding in itself would not cause our GSDs to be shorter lived.

Might even cause the avg. to live longer (if the line breeding dogs were long lived themselves.

line breeding will tend to emphasize the genotype of the dogs that the offspring are line bred on (both mental and physical traits that are genetically based)

we have had a couple of past GSD's reach the 13 yo mark. One an Am SL and another a BYB individual.

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#328990 - 02/02/15 12:58 PM Re: Let's talk about longevity or lack in the GSD [Re: Codmaster]
lhczth Offline

Administrator and LOTR addict

Registered: 01/18/10
Posts: 1577
Loc: Michigan, USA
Likes: 42
My litter with no linebreeding was the one that had the most problems though Alexis and Aiden are almost 12. Both of their parents lived long lives. I think we live in a world where too many outside sources are also influencing the health and longevity of our dogs.

Yes, as a breeder I feel looking at longevity of lines is important.
_________________________
Lisa Clark
Zu Treuen Hšnden
SG1 Deja IPO3 AWD1 KKL1 B/HOT, SG Elena IPO1 KKL CGC B/HOT, LB IPO2 KKL B/HOT (the ugly little sable), Donovan IPO1 TR2 AD and gone, but not forgotten: Vala SchH3 AWD1 FH2 CGC B/HOT, Nike SchH1 OB1 TR3 AD HOT, Treue SchH3 CD CGC HOT

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#328991 - 02/02/15 02:53 PM Re: Let's talk about longevity or lack in the GSD [Re: lhczth]
Codmaster Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 05/14/10
Posts: 1612
Loc: CA
Likes: 49
BTW - interesting thought about breeders thinking about longevity in selecting breeding partners. I never heard of any that considered this although of course that doesn't mean that they don't - just never heard of it.

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#328992 - 02/02/15 02:58 PM Re: Let's talk about longevity or lack in the GSD [Re: lhczth]
middleofnowhere Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 2738
Likes: 186
My shep/elk x lived to be 16 (d. cancer that we didn't find until too late)
My sammy might have been 12 when she died
My shep/who knows x lived to be 15 (d. probably renal failure)
My rescue shep - who knows? (d. heart worm - never got healthy enough to be treated for them)
Barker the Elder (shep but no data on pedigree - at least 1/2 show line) d. at 14 or 15 cause undetermined.
Barker the Younger (shep working line) (d at 11 or 12 of hemangio)
Big Beefy Black Dog who knows what (supposed to be shep x but not shep attitude and not very sheppy looking) d. at (I'd have to look it up but certainly younger than the GSDs) of bone cancer

And -- first three listed (these are listed in order of my getting them) were fed supermarket dog food - what ever was on sale when I needed the food without regard for carefully switching foods. They were given bones to chew.

So I'm rather voting for environmental crap - whether formaldehyde in building materials, air quality changes, chemicals used in our houses either in cleaning or in products.

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#329000 - 02/02/15 05:13 PM Re: Let's talk about longevity or lack in the GSD [Re: middleofnowhere]
Wisc.Tiger_Val Offline
Member First - Owner Second "The Watcher"

Registered: 01/18/10
Posts: 8792
Loc: Wisconsin
Likes: 268
Well I believe that Environmental plays into this to a point.

I had as most of you know 4 GSD's at once so they were all subjected to the same things.
Cheyenne (German showline/BYB) was the first and still with me. No allergy problems, a few times the other dogs got some bug but she was fine.

Then DeeDee (American Showline)who had a reaction to a vaccination and messed up her nerves so I let her go at age 9.

Then Lakota (German Showline/working line) who had problems with allergies,Staph infections and pancreatitis. I had to let go at age 8 1/2, cancer.

Then Raya (German Showline), who it took me a while to figure out that she was allergic to chicken. After than she ate well and was healthy. Lost her at age 8 3/4 years old to either cancer or heart problems, didn't have it in me to take her in and have her opened up.

So I think in my at times muddled brain that some of it may be related to the immune system of the dogs. I have for many years before it was the thing used natural cleaning and laundry products.

I think in the past several years some of the breeding has changed. 10 - 15 years ago some breeders thought nothing of breeding a dog that had allergy issues or other things, LOL but heaven forbid don't talk about breeding a Coated dog.

I know that selecting lines that have a longer life span isn't a magic wand that all offspring will he healthy. Some times the Gene's just don't work together.
_________________________
Val da Tiger

Fuzzybutt the cat.
Neilla the Big White puppy.

RIP Cheyenne - AKA: Digger, CheyChey Girl, Cheyenne Large and In charge. 2/16/02 - 2/27/16
RIP Raya - AKA: Raz-a, Ray a Sunshine, RayBestos, the little one, Silly Girl. 9/21/05 - 6/27/14
RIP Lakota - AKA: Bubba, Big Boy, BooBoo (the other part of the Binky and BooBoo team). 1/19/03-9/19/2011
RIP DeeDee - AKA: DD Poo, Little Bit, Binky (part of the Binky and Booboo team) 6/23/02-6/20/11

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#329004 - 02/02/15 07:57 PM Re: Let's talk about longevity or lack in the GSD [Re: Wisc.Tiger_Val]
lhczth Offline

Administrator and LOTR addict

Registered: 01/18/10
Posts: 1577
Loc: Michigan, USA
Likes: 42
Environment involves diet and how the diet is raised and processed, vaccines and what is in the vaccines (the latter is more of a problem), chemicals we put on them (flea, tick), chemicals we put in them (HW, flea, tick), treats, chemicals used on lawns (even if not our lawn), chemicals in our water, etc. Doesn't help that some issues were ignored in our breed even in its foundation (possible EPI in Alex vom Westfalenheim) and along the way.
_________________________
Lisa Clark
Zu Treuen Hšnden
SG1 Deja IPO3 AWD1 KKL1 B/HOT, SG Elena IPO1 KKL CGC B/HOT, LB IPO2 KKL B/HOT (the ugly little sable), Donovan IPO1 TR2 AD and gone, but not forgotten: Vala SchH3 AWD1 FH2 CGC B/HOT, Nike SchH1 OB1 TR3 AD HOT, Treue SchH3 CD CGC HOT

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#329009 - 02/02/15 10:12 PM Re: Let's talk about longevity or lack in the GSD [Re: lhczth]
zyp Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 723
Loc: Shreveport
Likes: 8
Not a breeder, but would like to know, along these lines, what breed wardens look for. Do many American breeders subject their pairing ?
_________________________
Anne

Nothing is as simple as it seems or as complicated as we make it~

Attitude is everything -- Pick a good one!
Sofie AKA Ussina vom Haus Brezel
Jack von Jagenstadt
Tatty - Burmese bad cat

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#329013 - 02/03/15 08:56 AM Re: Let's talk about longevity or lack in the GSD [Re: zyp]
Kayos Offline

Can't Figure Tech Stuff Out

Registered: 02/18/10
Posts: 11662
Loc: McAlester, OK
Likes: 240
I have never had a GSD live past 12 years and 2 months, that I know of.

Lucky my first GSD was from a BYB. She lived to 12 years and 2 months. She had bad HD and dementia and had gone blind.

Wolfie, my white GSD, died at 9 years and 4 months of hemangio.

Max was a rescue so I am not exactly sure how old he was when we lost him. I am thinking 12 plus.

Kayos is 12 years and 2 weeks and going strong. Unless something jumps up fast she should see 13. BTW I was filling out her paperwork for the GSDCA lucky 13 club and one of the questions was how many littermates are still alive. Sent her breeder the question and at this time last year only 3 pups of 13 in the litter still lived. That was a year ago and she has not inquired since. So Kayos may be the last one alive, not certain of that, tho. Aside from Kayos' hips, her health has been pretty much perfect her whole life. very hardy dog.

Havoc is nearing 8 and is not aging well so who knows about him? He also has bad allergies.

Mayhem may live forever. She is extremely hardy.
_________________________
Kathy

PTE,AC,URO3,AG2,UCD Xtra!Xtra! v. TeMar CDX,GN,RE,CGC,TC,HIC, Bh "Havoc" 6/4/07
PAM, URO3, UCD, UACH Tidmores Rising Star Lydia "Mayhem" CD,BN,RE,AX,AJP,OFP,P1J,CA,DN,HT,TKN,TC,CGCA 4/4/12

Lucky, Wolf, Max, Kayos - gone not forgotten. gsdhalo

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