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#344713 - 07/15/17 01:48 AM How long does it take?
Codmaster Offline
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A question. We are probably going to get a rescue adult GSD in the next couple months or as soon as we find the right guy/girl.

My question is this - assuming the dog has had no or minimal formal OB training (which I will assume for a rescue but could be surprised) What would be a good reasonable estimate for how long it would take an experienced but certainly not a pro OB/rally trainer to get the dog to the level where we could show him in Utility and/or Rally Excellent.

I do realize of course the WIDE variation in what this could/should take but was curious as to what experienced OB/Rally trainers might think, keeping in mind that since I am retired I can spend as much time as needed to train.

My thought from the OB and Rally experience we have had is that it might be considerablly quicker to get him/her thru the Rally than the more formal and stricter regular AKC obedience. we have trained a couple of GSDs thru the Utility and Excellent exercises.

Thoughts/considerations/estimates/discussion? Assume (big assumption) no medical or behavior (dog or handler) problems.

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#344715 - 07/15/17 10:18 PM Re: How long does it take? [Re: Codmaster]
DancingCavy Offline



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Two years. Or at least that's my estimate for my puppy. I don't think he'll be ready for at least 2 years. . .and that might be pushing it (which I have no intention of doing).
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#344720 - 07/16/17 11:42 AM Re: How long does it take? [Re: DancingCavy]
middleofnowhere Offline
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It really depends on the dog and the handler. A 2 yo that I adopted (he showed up in my back yard with a punctured trachea/jugular) was signed up for obedience training as soon as he had recouped. He took to it like a champ. I wasn't doing any competition at that time but if I had been he would have been ready for what was then Novice in about 9 months. I've been away from AKC for 15 or so years, so I have no idea about the current titles.

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#344741 - 07/16/17 09:40 PM Re: How long does it take? [Re: middleofnowhere]
Codmaster Offline
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Thanks.

I was hoping maybe a year (retired so can spend a lot of time). But I could certainly be WAY off. Maybe even comparing to old dog and forgetting what it took to get there.

Hopefully we will find the right dog and get a chance to try!

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#344764 - 07/17/17 07:28 PM Re: How long does it take? [Re: Codmaster]
middleofnowhere Offline
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CM - Go for it! I think you will be happy. My boy ate it up. The only difficulty we had was class was outside the vets office - the people who saved his life - and he really wanted to go in that door and say howdy~! Now I had my other dog who loved obedience work and she always got to go first when we practiced at home. So he watched her work! I can't prove it (oh you who wants everything proven) but I somehow think it showed him what was expected.

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#344828 - 07/25/17 09:06 AM Re: How long does it take? [Re: middleofnowhere]
Kayos Offline

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CM if the adult dog has some rudiments of obedience a rally novice and/or Beginner Novice title is probably attainable in about 6 to 9 months. The judging standard is not as strict as in regular obedience.

The thinking is that it takes about 2 years to teach a dog reliable heeling. I would agree with this. But this is also taking a dog from puppyhood and teaching the very basics while allowing the dog to mature.
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#345045 - 09/01/17 11:30 AM Re: How long does it take? [Re: Kayos]
Codmaster Offline
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An Update: We have signed up for a basic Rally class at a local OB club. Taught by a friend, also with GSDs; and one who with whom we have worked with his dogs and my previous Baron for a few years.

It should be fun and I am starting Lola's "formal" obedience training today.

Anybody ever hear of Connie Cleveland and her approach? Author of "Dogs are Problem Solvers, Handlers Should be" Good book!

I attended a seminar she did a few years back in No. CA and was impressed with her and her approach.

One thing she advocates and I think sounds like a great idea - She teaches a "Skill" based approach to training for AKC Obedience (making an assumption that anyone interested in OB showing wants to end up at Utility)

Rather than do the Novice exercises and, once one has a CD, then go on to Open exercises, and then on to the Utility ones after earning a CDX. She breaks the things into Skills I.E. like Retrieve includes the articles, gloves, DB on flat and over jumps in the skill. Same with Recall and the different instances of it.

Seems like it makes sense! So we are going to give it a try. Started to with Baron and he knew all Novice, all Open and most of Utility; but unfortunately, about the time we were ready to start showing developed symptoms of DM!

So we will see! So far, Lola seems like she is pretty good at learning.

We plan to train and show in both Obedience and Rally at same time - should be no problem for dog as skills are very similar but could be fun for trainer/handler as the rules for handlers are different in some areas. Like extra commands, esp.

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#345055 - 09/02/17 12:21 PM Re: How long does it take? [Re: Codmaster]
middleofnowhere Offline
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I'm sure Lola will do great. The instructor's going to have a time with that handler 'though! wink

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#345062 - 09/02/17 04:05 PM Re: How long does it take? [Re: middleofnowhere]
Codmaster Offline
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Originally Posted By: middleofnowhere
I'm sure Lola will do great. The instructor's going to have a time with that handler 'though! wink


Yea, I think he knows that! Heh! Heh! Kind of a reversal times 2 of roles - he was instructor in long time ago Rally classes and then I was helping him with his guy after we lost Baron.

Should be fun. I do have to get Lola trained a bit in basic obedience like heel and sit
before class starts.

Fortunately she is a very social dog, unlike my previous male, Baron who could be testy with any male dog who he thought was challenging him.

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#345135 - 09/07/17 11:51 PM Re: How long does it take? [Re: Codmaster]
middleofnowhere Offline
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OK so Lola's keeping you so busy you're not giving us updates?

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#345136 - 09/08/17 01:22 AM Re: How long does it take? [Re: middleofnowhere]
Codmaster Offline
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Update: had her in the local park field on a long line today - she saw some crows on ground and started to dash toward them. Yelled "Wait" as i reached for the dropped long line AND SHE DID! Stopped and waited for me to pick it up. got to say she shocked the heck out of me when she stopped and turned around and looked back at me!

On the other hand: out walking her last night for our late night walk just around our cul-de-sac and up and down the street. We emerge from garage and she spots a black cat across the cul-de-sac and "Fixates" on it. INTENSE concentration and did not hear my voice at all. Would not take her eyes off it! Fortunately the cat did not move (it was around 50-75' away anyway. I am "guessing" that perhaps the cat was too big a distraction at our current stage of training!!! WAY too big! Finally got her to go the other way down the street and cat was gone when we got back. Lola was still very intent on looking for the cat but we had at least a little bit of control of her and her attention. Talk about prey drive! Finally, today we took her to a local Western Farm store just for the experience - went mostly very well. Pretty calm around parking lot with all the folks there and even good in store as we walked up and down a couple aisles. She stopped to visit with an employee who asked as we were walking out of the store and she greeted him nicely as she also did to the woman walking out of the store who actually asked me "Pretty dog! can I pet her?" And so she did.
In the parking lot we came fairly close to a woman with a small/medium all white fluffy dog (northern breed?) in a shopping cart. dog sees Lola and went into a real frenzy barking and growling at her. Woman says nothing! Lola took it a few seconds and then gave a bark or two back as i told her "Lets go" and walked over to our car! Idiot owner! lola OTOH walked nicely to the car and hopped right in when I opened the sliding door automatically and told her "Car". All in all a pretty nice first visit to the store and a bit of socialization for our new girl!

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#345138 - 09/08/17 10:54 AM Re: How long does it take? [Re: Codmaster]
SeanRescueMom Offline
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So glad to hear Lola's training is coming along nicely albeit her natural prey drive instinct. wink You know it's funny, Sean was as good as gold with our cat in the house but when he got outside all bets were off!
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#345139 - 09/08/17 11:12 AM Re: How long does it take? [Re: SeanRescueMom]
Codmaster Offline
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It is amazing how intense she gets when she sees a cat! Total transformation!

She also tries to "Stalk" the birds we see in the field - "stiff" look and body as she slowly puts one foot after another! Like one sees a cat do in the yard.

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#345140 - 09/08/17 11:12 AM Re: How long does it take? [Re: Codmaster]
Codmaster Offline
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Got to admit some days training are better than others (as usual!).

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#345162 - 09/10/17 11:24 AM Re: How long does it take? [Re: Codmaster]
middleofnowhere Offline
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Sounds like your yesterday was a bit like mine. I was sure I had it nailed. Friday at home both dogs were "up" -- Saturday after a long drive to club, they were both butt heads.

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#345189 - 09/13/17 09:20 PM Re: How long does it take? [Re: middleofnowhere]
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So! Our first Beginning Rally class today for Lola! Friend of mine and training partner is teaching it. 4 other dogs in it and all are very friendly as are the owners!

Lola FAR exceeded my expectations today. She did really well with the exercises which were mostly just heeling around with stops, fast and slow, and a few weaving things, stays and downs and random other Rally signs.

She "heeled" much better than I expected (we really have not started a formal heel command yet - just attention while walking next to me) but she was great. Only real thing was that she swung wide to my side/front sometimes when we stopped.

So good that 2 of the other owners said "How long did you say you had her?" after they saw her in the ring! I was pleased with that. I had told them she was a rescue and we picked her up three weeks ago past Saturday.

And even better, she was a peach with all the other dogs - OLD Port Water Dog, Daschsund, spaniel and "Other". Friendly with all!

And and equal good with other owners - greeted each and had a few pets and took a couple little bitty treats from between their fingers (I am not sure that everyone believed me when I told them to try it! Heh! Heh! But she did good).

Anyone tell I am very proud of her?

Have to remember today when she doesn't do quite as well!

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#345195 - 09/14/17 01:14 AM Re: How long does it take? [Re: Codmaster]
middleofnowhere Offline
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ohhhhh, congrats but you KNOW what happens when you brag on your dog!!!

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#345201 - 09/14/17 05:13 PM Re: How long does it take? [Re: middleofnowhere]
Codmaster Offline
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Only too well!

See the last sentence of my message above.

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#345209 - 09/15/17 10:32 AM Re: How long does it take? [Re: Codmaster]
Mary Jane Offline
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Sounds to me like a great dog and a very well chosen home.

I truly hope that your partnership blooms and you keep us posted.

MJ

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#345211 - 09/15/17 01:41 PM Re: How long does it take? [Re: Mary Jane]
Codmaster Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mary Jane
Sounds to me like a great dog and a very well chosen home.

I truly hope that your partnership blooms and you keep us posted.

MJ


Thanks so much. She is a very nice dog and is fitting in very well.

What a difference from our last dog (and that is a very good thing!). Almost the same color - a bi-color and mostly black; but such a VERY different temperament!

Training is also different - he was much more independent, while Lola is much easier to get her focus on me (except when there is a cat around, which we still need to work on!).

A rescue is so different than getting a baby puppy like all of our other GSDs with the exception of one 11 mo we also got from a breeder way back. Different, but so rewarding when you can see the dog actually "bonding" with us.

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#345248 - 09/17/17 05:05 PM Re: How long does it take? [Re: Codmaster]
middleofnowhere Offline
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This dog is doing wonders for you. You just sound HAPPY!

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#345252 - 09/17/17 11:11 PM Re: How long does it take? [Re: middleofnowhere]
Codmaster Offline
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She is a difference maker, for sure.

A very very sweet dog. Being a rescue, and only in the first adopters home maybe 5-6 months when they basically gave her to the GSD rescue group. I would really like to know her entire history (impossible I know!).

We had to spray a little single spritz of an anti-itch spray on her upper front leg (from vet as she had been licking it to raw) and she really HATED it, but even then not even a hint of any aggression - just wanted to get away.

So after we did spray it we got this pooch to come back to me to get a little tiny treat with me holding the little spray bottle in my other hand. Lola is so trusting and sweet!

My wife remembered the previous owner saying she used the "Vinegar spray" approach to making her obey probably to stop chasing her cats??? I hate that approach to corrections!
Plus, my previous dog used to enjoy the spray when we tried it with him for something!

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#345297 - 09/22/17 11:10 AM Re: How long does it take? [Re: middleofnowhere]
PaddyD Offline
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Pictures?
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#345303 - 09/22/17 12:39 PM Re: How long does it take? [Re: PaddyD]
Codmaster Offline
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i got a few so now I will have to look at how to post here (never have i don't believe)

Coming

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#345317 - 09/23/17 02:21 AM Re: How long does it take? [Re: Codmaster]
middleofnowhere Offline
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So here's a quick tutorial... Go to Reply instead of quick reply. Then there are a bunch of buttons at the top of the whatchmacallit thing that you post in. One of those lets you add photos.

See how helpful I can be? (I don't want to clean my kitchen but I want to make jelly = have to clean kitchen = am doing a whole lotta other stuff...)

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#345319 - 09/23/17 09:10 AM Re: How long does it take? [Re: middleofnowhere]
Woodreb Offline
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Fifth icon from the left is the tool to upload photos. The file can't be bigger than 3Mb.
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