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#7688 - 02/22/10 11:55 PM Re: Sedation prior to Euthansia [Re: Chris Wild]
Jane Jean Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/15/10
Posts: 2575
Loc: Southwest, MI
Likes: 41
Quote:
When you have seen fear or confusion in their eyes and you witness an animal fight death with every last living cell in their body, you lean towards sedation first. It might take 2 shots, yes, but the animal only feels the discomfort of the first. I say my goodbyes before sedation and I hold them all the way thru the second shot

My SIL had the same experience with her Bonnie.
She was very upset that her dog had to leave with fear. And that was the lasting impression she had when Bonnie went to the bridge, fear and confusion in her eyes, instead of peaceful relaxation of a sedative...And she fought it, took a very long time to take her last breath.
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#7689 - 02/22/10 11:56 PM Re: Sedation prior to Euthansia [Re: Chris Wild]
Wisc.Tiger_Val Offline
Member First - Owner Second "The Watcher"

Registered: 01/18/10
Posts: 8660
Loc: Wisconsin
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Chris it can happen an is more frequent than we think.

I think part of the problem is with very old or very sick dogs the veins just aren't that good. So with the sedation shot the vet will be able to tell how quickly it works. Veins can blow if the final shot is pushed to fast, but if the circulation is so poor that it just slowly trickles to the heart there are problems there also.

I think everyone needs to do what is comfortable for them.

I also think people need to be informed on the procedure and what happens if there is a problem. If the dog is old or sick or a combination of the two and the procedure goes bad there is only one solution that will help the poor animal go and that is the "Heart Stick". There will be a whole debate starting about this statement, but when every thing is going wrong the dog needs to be let go as quickly as possible.

Val
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Neilla the Big White puppy.

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#7697 - 02/23/10 12:09 AM Re: Sedation prior to Euthansia [Re: Wisc.Tiger_Val]
SLEACHY Offline
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Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 1593
Loc: NJ
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Re: the heart stick...
To get certified for euthanasia, I had to do intravenous, intracardiac, and intraperitoneal injections.
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#7719 - 02/23/10 12:21 AM Re: Sedation prior to Euthansia [Re: SLEACHY]
SLEACHY Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 1593
Loc: NJ
Likes: 33
Quote:
...but when every thing is going wrong the dog needs to be let go as quickly as possible.

agreed

(tried to add that to my last post but for some reason, I am slow tonight!)
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#7784 - 02/23/10 01:38 AM Re: Sedation prior to Euthansia [Re: SLEACHY]
bjdimock Offline
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Registered: 02/12/10
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I think it is up to a persons own comfort level with the procedure, the pets state of mind at the time, and a persons ability to accept natural ways of passing.
I have witnessed more euthanasia's that I would like to count, including my own dear friends.
As a tech, I choose not to sedate. This can cause blood pressure to drop dramatically, making it harder for the vet to find a usable vein. Because of the decrease in blood pressure, it takes longer for the solution to do what it needs to do, and I get a creepy feeling when that happens.
This is my own personal feeling.
I am used to agonal breathing. I loose sick patients sometimes. When they are at that stage, Their soul has already flown. We can work hard until the last breath, but what we work on is a shell.
I can see how this could cause upset in someone who doesn't expect it.
Before we start with a euthanasia, we try to explain that even when we pronounce the pet as passed, owners may see gasps of breath. This is the physical body shutting down.
Because the solution is actually an overdose of anesthesia (pentobarbital) some pets can go through an "excitement" stage. Pentobarbital isn't used often anymore in anesthesia, but it was known to cause agitation before the animal was sedate. The thrashing that resulted was an unconscious animal who's nerves were triggered by the action of pento. There are some euthanasia solutions out there that seem to cause this reaction, but I haven't seen them used here (in Ct) in a few years.
My own dog wouldn't go quickly. I attribute it more to her personality, and it is a precious memory. I was glad to be holding her when she let go of the pain that Lupus had caused her.
At the last moment she wagged her tail, licked my arm, and was the girl that I loved.
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#9287 - 02/24/10 11:04 PM Re: Sedation prior to Euthansia [Re: bjdimock]
Skywalkerlady Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/13/10
Posts: 40
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The euthanasia solution that stops the heart, causes a heart attack, is very hard on an unsedated animal. I have heard of euthanasia going very badly. I will always chose sedation, there is no need for the animal to suffer.

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#9307 - 02/24/10 11:25 PM Re: Sedation prior to Euthansia [Re: Skywalkerlady]
Heidi W Offline
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Registered: 02/24/10
Posts: 267
Loc: New Hampshire, USA
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I always thought, it was one iv line that included the drug to make them sleep and then the drug to stop the heart, am I wrong?
This is a hard thing to think about but good to be discussed.
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#9324 - 02/24/10 11:37 PM Re: Sedation prior to Euthansia [Re: Heidi W]
bjdimock Offline
Addict

Registered: 02/12/10
Posts: 402
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Euthanasia solution in animals is one drug. It causes unconsciousness, then respiratory failure, then it stops the heart. This generally happens very quickly.
Again, there are different solutions available, and some can cause an excited stage in the animal.
It is horrible to watch. (My own went this way.) Animals are generally unaware that they are passing through this stage however.
(During a surgery of my own, I also expirenced this stage first hand.) I woke up to the most horrendous screaming, and I wished that the nurses would go and sedate the person next to me. In a VERY detached thought process, I realized that I was screaming, but I couldn't stop. I felt no panic or uncomfort at the time, but I did wonder why I was screaming. smile )
_________________________
Proud foster of Gaia,Seda,Ilan,Sika,Fenna,Tasha and Inga(Fidelco Guide Dogs)
Pack members.. Alpha Ilan,Fenna,FGD momma,Sika(needed 2 help me)Gwen(pitX)
Tasha; SAR dog in training and loving it!
7 cool cats!
3 beloved equines
and of course Mr. Frodo

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#9340 - 02/24/10 11:46 PM Re: Sedation prior to Euthansia [Re: bjdimock]
Heidi W Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 02/24/10
Posts: 267
Loc: New Hampshire, USA
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thanks for the explanation.
this made me cry Quote: At the last moment she wagged her tail, licked my arm, and was the girl that I loved
_________________________
Heidi and her furkids,
Bella GSD 3 yrs old
Bo GSD 2 Yrs old
Daisy JRT 6 yrs old,
RIP My beloved GSDs Tarsha, Keisha, Kasey
and Patches my Cocker Spaniel.

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#12495 - 03/01/10 05:04 PM Re: Sedation prior to Euthansia [Re: Heidi W]
GSDTrain Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 6713
Loc: NY
Likes: 13
Originally Posted By: Heidi W
thanks for the explanation.
this made me cry Quote: At the last moment she wagged her tail, licked my arm, and was the girl that I loved


that quote brought tears to my eyes as well
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