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#100368 - 11/01/10 05:21 PM Re: Grimm - Before and After raw diet change ***** [Re: Kirchnel]
GrandJan Offline
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Registered: 02/22/10
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Is this pre-packaged? Who makes it? I don't understand who determined the ratio...

You are certainly not ignorant nono - you are leaps and bounds ahead by asking questions. smile
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Jan - Mom to:

Beau & Chance - German/Anatolian Shepherds
Bailey - Labrador Granddog

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#100473 - 11/01/10 09:59 PM Re: Grimm - Before and After raw diet change [Re: GrandJan]
Woodreb Online   coffee
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Originally Posted By: GrandJan
That's too much meat vs. bone, IMO. You should be 60% RMBs/35% MM/5% OM, or at least 50/45/5. How are her poops?


While I'm not a raw feeder myself, I've seen this discussion of the % bone in the pre-packaged, ground raw (like Primal) on the other board. When you, as a DIY raw feeder, talk about 50% RMB, most of the time you are talking about something that is not 100% bone. A chicken leg quarter makes a good RMB. Lauri brought this up - that leg quarter is really only about 25% bone, you call it a RMB because it is meat and bone. When you take in to account the meat in the RMB, the MM and OM, the actual amount of just bone in the diet is really around 12%, when feeding 50/45/5 RMB/MM/OM. So the amount of bone (as just bone)in the pre-packaged ground raw diet is about right. Granted it might not be exactly optimal for this particular dog, but it's not too far off.
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Johanna

Caleb (aka Caleb-Moose)
Ciara(aka Ciara Belle, Black Devil)

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#100509 - 11/02/10 12:08 AM Re: Grimm - Before and After raw diet change [Re: Woodreb]
Kirchnel Offline
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Yes it is prepackaged in the ratios above.

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#100624 - 11/02/10 02:37 PM Re: Grimm - Before and After raw diet change [Re: Woodreb]
GrandJan Offline
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Originally Posted By: Woodreb
When you, as a DIY raw feeder, talk about 50% RMB, most of the time you are talking about something that is not 100% bone. A chicken leg quarter makes a good RMB. Lauri brought this up - that leg quarter is really only about 25% bone, you call it a RMB because it is meat and bone.


Actually I don't call a leg quarter an RMB. It has way too much meat on it to be an RMB. It is basically all inclusive, IMO. The same for a whole chicken breast. Also, quarters are not my choice, but many dogs do very well on them. My dogs get them occasionally, but then they are their entire meal (with perhaps a smidgen of OM added).

My RMBs are necks, backs and wings - almost entirely bones, and I must then add in the 35% MM and 5% OM.

If premade/premeasured is balanced another way, then I apologize for any of my information because I'm not really up to date on this type of raw feeding. smile
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Jan - Mom to:

Beau & Chance - German/Anatolian Shepherds
Bailey - Labrador Granddog

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#100634 - 11/02/10 04:08 PM Re: Grimm - Before and After raw diet change [Re: GrandJan]
Woodreb Online   coffee
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Not trying to be difficult - just trying to understand. I understand that a leg quarter has a considerable amount of meat on it, but if the leg quarter is a combination of meat and bone isn't it by definition a RMB because it does have bone in it that you are feeding? A MM has no bone at all - like beef heart.

Here's the example that Lauri & the Gang gave:

"Here's where the math gets tricky.

In an ideal raw diet (as per ME ), you would feed 45-50% RMB. Raw MEATY Bones. Like ... let's say, a leg quarter.

In that leg quarter the ACTUAL bone content should ideally be around 25% bone.

So, let's do MORE math using the example I made above:


Quote:
Quote:50% RMBs (or a premade with bone): 18 ounces
45% (approximately) Muscle meat (or a premade WITHOUT bone): 16.5 ounces
5% (approx) Organ meat: 1.5 ounce

So, if 25% of the 18 ounces is ACTUAL bone, that is 4.5 ounces.

The total amount fed per day is 36 ounces.

4.5 ounces is 12.5% of 36 ounces.

So, you are feeding a diet with 12.5% ACTUAL bone content.

A premade with 8% bone content isn't off by that much."

from http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/b-r-f-raw-feeding/126386-feeding-premade-raw-weight-2.html

I think a lot of confusion comes from the fact that DIY raw feeders talk about the RMB percentage, but ignore the fact that whatever that item is, it isn't 100% bone in most cases. (And the people like me that try to work out what that means mathematically get confused about how much actual bone is being fed.) The pre-packaged stuff has broken it down as meat/bone rather than MM/RMB. You generally get to the same place in terms of the amount of actual bone in the diet, but the terms used are different.

And I know, because I've looked, that not all pre-made even gives you the percentages. I think the only one I found that was that specific was Primal.


Edited by Woodreb (11/02/10 04:11 PM)
Edit Reason: added a thought
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Johanna

Caleb (aka Caleb-Moose)
Ciara(aka Ciara Belle, Black Devil)

RIP Aodhán, Rica, Max, Kelly - gone but never forgotten - forever in my heart

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#100635 - 11/02/10 04:13 PM Re: Grimm - Before and After raw diet change [Re: Woodreb]
LifeAsMe Offline
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My understanding is the 80%/10%/10% is basically the same thing as 50%/45%/5%. It's really how you consider the bone. If the meal consists of chicken quarter, MM and OM, then the RMB would be about 75%, 20% MM and 5% OM taking into consideration that the chicken quarter has more meat on it then a poultry neck or back.

We're really all talking the same numbers, just using a different method of calculating it.

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#100638 - 11/02/10 04:27 PM Re: Grimm - Before and After raw diet change [Re: LifeAsMe]
GrandJan Offline
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Registered: 02/22/10
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Originally Posted By: Woodreb
I understand that a leg quarter has a considerable amount of meat on it, but if the leg quarter is a combination of meat and bone isn't it by definition a RMB because it does have bone in it that you are feeding? A MM has no bone at all - like beef heart.

You are probably technically right, but for my own thinking, it has too much meat on it to be just an RMB. I feed it as an RMB and MM. Remember, this is just my own way of doing things as even after 5+ years, I still weigh each meal! My head computes bones as bones (little to no meat) and meat as meat. silly

Originally Posted By: LifeAsMe
We're really all talking the same numbers, just using a different method of calculating it.

Yep, I think I'm getting it now, but… boy, I sure do like my easy way! laugh
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Jan - Mom to:

Beau & Chance - German/Anatolian Shepherds
Bailey - Labrador Granddog

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#100646 - 11/02/10 04:55 PM Re: Grimm - Before and After raw diet change [Re: GrandJan]
Woodreb Online   coffee
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Belive me, I think it is easier your way - it makes more sense to me than calling something that's mostly meat a bone (especially a chicken breast, which is even less bone than the leg quarter). laugh
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Johanna

Caleb (aka Caleb-Moose)
Ciara(aka Ciara Belle, Black Devil)

RIP Aodhán, Rica, Max, Kelly - gone but never forgotten - forever in my heart

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#130199 - 02/02/11 11:58 PM Re: Grimm - Before and After raw diet change [Re: GrandJan]
mjbgsd Offline
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Registered: 02/21/10
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Akbar before raw, under a year



Akbar after; on raw for 7 months, 18 months old


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Isa BH CD RAE CGC TDI 12

Cody RIP 2003-2012

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#130221 - 02/03/11 12:20 AM Re: Grimm - Before and After raw diet change [Re: mjbgsd]
Braverhund Offline
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Registered: 02/10/10
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Loc: Massachusetts
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thumbup thumbup thumbup goodjob cheers Akbar looks phenomenal! I wish that we had an applause smiley. You have done a remarkable job, Missy! It takes dedication to feed your dog raw. Way to go! Akbar shines with radiant good health! wub
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Patti
Frauchen von:

Grimm van den Heuvel, "Donnerpratzen"
Smokey The TeddyLion, DLH purrbuddy

Dir gehört mein Herz

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