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#88720 - 09/30/10 12:43 PM Re: kennel cough or congestive heart failure? [Re: bianca]
Karin Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 02/11/10
Posts: 902
Loc: San Jose, California
Likes: 15
Originally Posted By: bianca
3.Watch for vomiting or any bloody discharge combined with listlessness, fever, rapid breathing/heart rate, and pale gums. Although extremely rare, also watch for hindquarter paralysis and urinary incontinence. With the symptoms in (3), which are life-threatening, the dog goes immediately to the nearest HSS Clinic because the signs point to embolism (worm clot from the die-off of the parasites during treatment); the doctors will keep her overnight, possibly a couple of days or even a week, put her on IV to hydrate her, sometimes oxygen if she's in distress, and give her cortisone injections to break up the clot. We will assist with all decisions for treatments in the clinics and cover the medical expenses.


Did they look into a blood clot as a possibility? Humans (and I'm assuming, dogs) can get blood clots without it being related to heartworms.... I think coughing is a symptom. Just trying to throw out any and all possibilities.
_________________________
Karin and Dave

Heidi, 11-year-old GSD
Adopted on 10/14/07 from: German Shepherd Rescue of Northern California (http://www.savegsd.org)

Sheba, GSD/Malamute angel

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#88721 - 09/30/10 12:43 PM Re: kennel cough or congestive heart failure? [Re: Chris Wild]
Vinnie Offline

The Italian One

Registered: 01/18/10
Posts: 3706
Loc: Minnesota, USA
Likes: 27
hugging
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Home of;
Sundance (Ezio zu Treuen Händen, ADC, BH, HIC)
Butch (Dario von der Staatsmacht, APr3, NW1, L1V, HIC, ORT-AC)
& Wyatt the cat

R.I.P. Dalton - Death leaves a heartache no one can heal, love leaves a memory no one can steal.

The Black Dog's Photographer

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#88722 - 09/30/10 12:44 PM Re: kennel cough or congestive heart failure? [Re: bianca]
JeanKBBMMMAAN Offline
Rescues Rule Admin

Registered: 01/18/10
Posts: 4618
Likes: 165
Originally Posted By: bianca
The most important observations are the following:

1.Keep an eye on the gums; they should be pink. If they get very red or white, along with listlessness, call us and take the dog to the vet: the dog may have a secondary infection (red gums) or anemia/shock (white gums) and need quick intervention.

2.Pay close attention to combination of lethargy, increased respiration, restlessness, and coughing; if you note these symptoms after treatment, call us and take the dog to the clinic. She will probably be put on Prednisone and will respond quickly.


3.Watch for vomiting or any bloody discharge combined with listlessness, fever, rapid breathing/heart rate, and pale gums. Although extremely rare, also watch for hindquarter paralysis and urinary incontinence. With the symptoms in (3), which are life-threatening, the dog goes immediately to the nearest HSS Clinic because the signs point to embolism (worm clot from the die-off of the parasites during treatment); the doctors will keep her overnight, possibly a couple of days or even a week, put her on IV to hydrate her, sometimes oxygen if she's in distress, and give her cortisone injections to break up the clot. We will assist with all decisions for treatments in the clinics and cover the medical expenses.


Bianca - I believe that this is for aftercare for heartworm treatment - when a dog throws a clot of worms - it would have to be really advanced HW disease, which would show up on yearly/bi-yearly HW tests and chest x-rays (enlargement in heart, stuff on the lungs) is my guess - but I could be wrong.

Thinking of Indy in her yellow rain cape...
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#88724 - 09/30/10 12:49 PM Re: kennel cough or congestive heart failure? [Re: Vinnie]
MaxaLisa Offline

Global Moderator

Registered: 01/26/10
Posts: 19439
Loc: Northern CA
Likes: 255
Karin, blood clot is on the list with the homeopathic vet, as is tumor and herniated disk. I don't think that anything is completely clear yet. I wish these vets would stop giving her toxic things so we can see the picture more clearly, like how she is today. A mess, but resting peacefully.

Vinnie and Chris, thank you.

shepnterrier, I certainly am all the richer and better for having Indy here - I don't look forward to her final lesson though. I did ask the vet what to expect if she is right, which, isn't pretty.
_________________________
MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
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#88725 - 09/30/10 12:52 PM Re: kennel cough or congestive heart failure? [Re: MaxaLisa]
MaxaLisa Offline

Global Moderator

Registered: 01/26/10
Posts: 19439
Loc: Northern CA
Likes: 255
One of the local vet places in town just called. They are fully booked today, but are squeezing Indy in for acupunture at 10:30. Best get ready. I look a mess....told them I wouldn't be shower and shaved wink , but we'd be ther with bells on.
_________________________
MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/

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#88727 - 09/30/10 12:57 PM Re: kennel cough or congestive heart failure? [Re: MaxaLisa]
kaisersmom Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 02/14/10
Posts: 804
Loc: Northwest OH
Likes: 61
Lisa -

Did the major gagging and drooling problems happen after she ate the large piece of bagel? I realize the neurological symptoms might be from something totally different, but I'm still wondering about that bagel being lodged at her lower esophagus or duodenum, from the way her x-ray looked. Does she only gag when she tries to eat or drink something? (I did sent you a PM, but I know your plate is full right now) -

It's good that she's resting comfortably for now hugging
_________________________
Pat

Marshall Dillon or Dillon - 15 months old
Kaiser - 11 1/2 yrs old - At the Bridge
Ray (Radar) - 8 yrs old - At the Bridge

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#88730 - 09/30/10 01:05 PM Re: kennel cough or congestive heart failure? [Re: Wisc.Tiger_Val]
shepnterrier Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/13/10
Posts: 2032
Loc: MA
Likes: 79
Originally Posted By: Wisc.Tiger_Val
If you think an Ultra Sound would help you find out what is wrong with Indy, check if there are any Reproduction Specialist Vets in your area. Call them and ask if they could do an UltraSound for you. They all have machines and are skilled at using them.


A clinic that is specialized in reproductive medicine might not be the best choice to take an u/s to check for a possible brain tumor. We once took a senior foster chi to a cardiologist at a teaching hospital for a cardio ultrasound and asked him to check her abdomen as well for a spay, since he was at it already. He said as a cardiologist he wouldn't know the best angle to take an u/s of another area than the heart. I was grateful for his honesty. It takes specialist skill to know how to take the u/s depending on the area of the body and diagnostic challenge, in addition to the skill of interpreting the image. But maybe that clinic has an oncologist on staff, too, I second Val, it's worth asking. If you decide to have an u/s taken.

The area of her body that is ultrasounded is shaved for the contact gel to be applied and the u/s reader to have skin contact. Something vet hospitals sometimes don't think of telling owners

It should not happen ever that a vet gives a drug to a dog with the MDR1 mutation before checking the drug's break down pathway. I am deeply sorry this happened to Indy. These mistakes happen at any clinic, human and animal, I would not dismiss the teaching hospital for it. As Val said, owners are in some cases more aware of its implications for a particular drug. I would think the vet is unhappy, too, now that she knows, and hopefully will have learned to be more thorough with checking drug pathways next time. But that doesn't help now. Maybe the MDR1 alert kits with red alerts on top of the dog's vet records and a tag on the collar help, but even they are no guarantee.

Hugs.
_________________________
Sarah
Chip vom Dog Pound, border terrior, Director of Rodent Control, CGC
Elly von Rescue, GSD, CGC, HI(C)
Captain Jack, Mama Blue, Little Orca, Bübchen, Tux, Cherub (pocket lions)


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#88734 - 09/30/10 01:28 PM Re: kennel cough or congestive heart failure? [Re: shepnterrier]
bianca Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/14/10
Posts: 8875
Loc: Queensland. Australia
Likes: 149
hugging for Indy, I pray the appointment helps determine something.
_________________________
Molly Moo (aka The Piranha, 4 legged mouth) GSD (31/10/09)
Cooper GSD (The Gremlin) 19/10/11
Texas - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free sweet Teppie
Paris - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free my beautiful girl.

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#88736 - 09/30/10 01:33 PM Re: kennel cough or congestive heart failure? [Re: bianca]
MaxaLisa Offline

Global Moderator

Registered: 01/26/10
Posts: 19439
Loc: Northern CA
Likes: 255
Pat, I missed the notify on the pm! I will check it in a minute.

Based on my concerns and yours, ultrasound at 2pm. I forgot there there is a non-certified u/s person at the dogs' regular clinic. That will work here!!

Gotta get going, you all are THE BEST!
_________________________
MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/

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#88738 - 09/30/10 01:35 PM Re: kennel cough or congestive heart failure? [Re: bianca]
kaisersmom Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 02/14/10
Posts: 804
Loc: Northwest OH
Likes: 61
Quote:
A clinic that is specialized in reproductive medicine might not be the best choice to take an u/s to check for a possible brain tumor.


I might be wrong, but I was assuming the ultrasound was to look at Indy's abdomen. As in humans, I would think once the fontanelles ("soft spots") of the skull are closed, as they would be in an adult, ultrasound cannot be used for evaluation of the brain. The skull blocks the sounds waves - same reason the bones cannot be evaluated with ultrasound.
_________________________
Pat

Marshall Dillon or Dillon - 15 months old
Kaiser - 11 1/2 yrs old - At the Bridge
Ray (Radar) - 8 yrs old - At the Bridge

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