Max: adrenals, SIBO, TBD, immunodeficiency & more

Posted by: MaxaLisa

Max: adrenals, SIBO, TBD, immunodeficiency & more - 06/05/11 08:27 PM

One of Max's vets was talking about how they can ultrasound the heart during a regular abdominal ultrasound. It isn't as good as an echocardiogram, but can still recognize some heart abnormalities.

Anything know anything about this?
Posted by: Virginia

Re: ultrasound for the heart? - 06/05/11 08:34 PM

Out of curiosity, why can't an ECG be done? I thought it was the gold standard for heart beat abnormalities.
Posted by: JeanKBBMMMAAN

Re: ultrasound for the heart? - 06/05/11 08:36 PM

Anna-b had an ultrasound to start her cardiac "journey" after the vet heard her murmur. No answers from that, but then again, none from a fluoroscope or an echo as to cause of the heart issue, but then we found out it was because the AV fistula was right behind her sternum (is that right? big bony thing).

Angelina also had an ultrasound for hers and they found the cause of the murmur in seconds. It was neat. I am trying to remember if there were others. I know when Kramer was being checked they started and went top to bottom. Same radiologist for all three. I really like her.
Posted by: arycrest

Re: ultrasound for the heart? - 06/06/11 12:40 AM

Ringer & Kelly both had ultrasounds of their hearts shortly before being put down ... both were diagnosed with hemangiosarcoma of the heart. teary
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart? - 06/06/11 03:01 AM

Thank you all for the info.

Gayle, that's what I'm a bit concerned about. Max has these mysterious symptoms, and hemangio of the heart keeps popping in my head frown I'm so sorry about Ringer and Kelly hugging There was a dog on the tick list that just succumbed to this same thing....so terrible, but it has prompted me to look into this more closely.

Virginia, my vet and I were wanting to do an abdominal ultrasound because of some other issues, and I've been going back and forth on which to do, the u/s, or the echo. Then this other vet mentioned that the u/s can also be done on the heart, at least as a preliminary test. It sounds like this might be the right place to start.

I hope I remember to call the vet tomorrow, though she's not in until Tuesday, as long as she doesn't have time off...

edit: oh, Virginia, just saw you said ECG, which is different than the echocardiogram. I will have to ask about that!!
Posted by: bianca

Re: ultrasound for the heart? - 06/06/11 04:43 AM

Lisa I hope that whatever examination you go for proves fruitful and shows nothing serious at all. Max needs and deserves to enjoy some good health hugging
Posted by: arycrest

Re: ultrasound for the heart? - 06/06/11 04:36 PM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
...
Gayle, that's what I'm a bit concerned about. Max has these mysterious symptoms, and hemangio of the heart keeps popping in my head frown I'm so sorry about Ringer and Kelly hugging There was a dog on the tick list that just succumbed to this same thing....so terrible, but it has prompted me to look into this more closely.
...
hugging OMG Lisa, you and Max will be in my prayers that you'll find out what's wrong and it won't be anything serious ... frightening!!!

FWIW ... a short time before Echo died from hemanigosarcoma, he was diagnosed via x-ray ... as a matter of fact he died while the vet was on the phone with me explaining the results. teary
Posted by: LJsMom

Re: ultrasound for the heart? - 06/06/11 05:14 PM

With LJ, I had the echo done by a cardiologist who also peaked around her spleen, liver, kidneys. He only charged me for the heart one.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart? - 06/07/11 01:44 AM

Originally Posted By: arycrest
FWIW ... a short time before Echo died from hemanigosarcoma, he was diagnosed via x-ray ... as a matter of fact he died while the vet was on the phone with me explaining the results. teary


Oh geez Gayle, how terrible teary

I never seem to be able to get a good diagnosis for Max, couldn't for Indy either, so I'm real cautious about what tests to go for.

I have an appointment Tuesday morning - we'll put a strategy together. The vet in a quick email last night did mention maybe starting with an xray. He gets winded just crossing the room nowadays. If it's pain, it's not something metacam isn't touching frown
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart? - 06/07/11 01:45 AM

Originally Posted By: LJsMom
With LJ, I had the echo done by a cardiologist who also peaked around her spleen, liver, kidneys. He only charged me for the heart one.


I wonder if I can get in touch with Indy's cardio. She went MIA for awhile, and I don't know if I can find her. There's always UC Davis, but I thought that the private cardio put together a better protocol for Indy than UCD would have.

and thank you bianca, I would love for Max to have some better health for awhile!
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/Strategy Session - 06/07/11 07:21 PM

Well, had an appointment with the vet and talked things over today.
I have to say, I so love this vet. Very logical thinker, understands how I like to care for my dogs, AND also handles me well. What a combination! She also loves Max wub


Heartworm test was negative.

Lungs sound completely clear. Last chest xray was in 2008, where the radiologist referred to the whispy stuff as "dirty lung", but no evidence of disease - he called it "old dog lung". A recheck xray of the chest is still on the list of possible things to do.

She could hear nothing wrong with the heart, though there still can be heart disease. She didn't see cause at this point to do an EKG, since she didn't seem to hear any heartbeat abnormalities. She could see how his heart can pound so violently (at rest) that his ears vibrate. She says that's a lot like a dog with a large heart, though the old chest xrays don't show that evidence. I think she is still leaning towards redoing xrays before doing something like an echocardiogram.

When we were brainstorming, she did mention some forms of pulmonary hypertension. I have a wrist BP monitor that I used to use on Indy....I should start taking his more regularly and see what his current pattern is. She also mentioned maybe bronchitis, though he never coughs, which she would expect. Of course, he fits nothing clearly.....

The stomach doesn't feel right, and hasn't for awhile. It feels kinda thick. The spleen wasn't enlarged today, but it typically isn't if he is on doxycycline. But because the stomach feels "thicker", she didn't get a good feel of the spleen. I know that with some of that abdominal thickening, it can be hard to distinguish between IBD and something like GI lymphoma. His last abdominal u/s, 3/09, when his spleen was enlarged, just showed an enlarged spleen and nothing else out of the ordinary.

So, tomorrow at 7pm he will have an abdominal ultrasound as our starting point. That's when their u/s guy is coming in, and I figured I should just get this done because I am just obsessing about all the terrible things that might be making him feel crappy. After (during?) that, the next step will be determined.

We had to chuckle, since I seem to be chasing zebras with him. I told the vet I would be more than happy to have a horse prance through, but nothing ever seems clear with him shrug

She did mention how good he actually looks though, for a 10 year old dog, in terms of coat, grey-ness, etc. I just wish he felt better. Glad I didn't wait until the appointment next week or later. Now that I'm home, I'm anxious to get this started!
Posted by: JeanKBBMMMAAN

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/Strategy Session - 06/07/11 09:30 PM

So sounds good - his ears vibrate? I am hoping equally good on the utrasound.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/Strategy Session - 06/07/11 09:49 PM

Thanks Jean, me too smile

Oh, yeah, the vibrating ears - seems like his heart might burst sometimes. I can't imagine what it would be like if he were very active nowadays.
Posted by: arycrest

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/Strategy Session - 06/08/11 02:29 AM

Good luck with the ultrasound tomorrow!!!
Posted by: bianca

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/Strategy Session - 06/08/11 04:29 AM

Wishing for horses or ponies tomorrow hugging
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/Strategy Session - 06/08/11 08:38 PM

Thanks, just hanging out for a bit before we have to get ready to go. Only a bit nervous at this point!
Posted by: Barb E

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/Strategy Session - 06/08/11 11:21 PM

*Zooming good thoughts south*
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/Strategy Session - 06/08/11 11:46 PM

The u/s was delayed for about 1/2 hour or so - accident on the road delayed the guy. I tried again to ask for a sneak peak of the heart, since they said no, I okayed the chest xrays, w/o anesthesia.

Just waiting now. Guess I'm waiting to hear that I just spent a bunch of money for nothing. Funny the way that works.

Will update when I get home.
Posted by: Barb E

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/Strategy Session - 06/08/11 11:51 PM

smile Sometimes there is nothing better than spending a bunch of money for nothing!!

*Fingers and paws crossed in the E house*
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/Strategy Session - 06/09/11 02:31 AM

You're right Barb!

Well, they didn't really find anything, which is good.

The ultrasound, I have been giving him gas-x for the last two days so that they get a good look at everything (he usually has too much gas), and they did find a larger spleen, which they said was a bit smaller than the last time, and GSDs tend to have larger spleens and it is within that. All the organs, etc. look fine.

He does however, have small adrenals. So small, that they couldn't be visualized. His regular vet had thought that maybe some of his issues are metabolic, and that makes me wonder a bit. The ultrasound vet said that small adrenals are good (they don't like large), but I"m not so sure they are good in this instance, so it might be a clue. I did find some weird things with bladder and pelvic pain associated with small adrenals in cats....

The xrays, nothing major. There might be something there, but she thinks it's mostly aging. She's going to have the radiologist look at them and probably talk to me tomorrow.

So. Overall very good news, a lot of stuff ruled out. He still doesn't feel any better, but I have much less of a sense of doom than I did just a bit ago!
Posted by: arycrest

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/Strategy Session - 06/09/11 02:50 AM

hugging So glad to hear that everything seems to be lookin' good!!! Will be interested to hear what you find out about the small adrenal glands!!!
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/Strategy Session - 06/09/11 04:04 AM

Thank you Gayle! I'm hoping to figure more about this adrenal thing too. I don't know if it's related, but it would explain a lot, particularly his issues with the thryoid and non-responsiveness, to some degree, of thyroid meds.

I did find this blurb from 2008 about the guy that did Max's ultrasound:

Quote:
Mr. Tom Baker is the Chief Ultrasonographer at the University of
California, Davis Veterinary Medicine Teaching Hospital. Mr. Baker
has been teaching and performing small animal ultrasound exams
for the last 19 years. Mr. Baker is respected as one of the most
experienced sonographers on the west coast. He has traveled the
world assisting the Smithsonian on research projects that involve the
ultrasonography of exotic and endangered animals.


the vet that spoke with me, mentioned that "not even Tom" could find the adrenals.

It could also be, that there isn't a name or a "known" disease process happening here, just an imbalance of some sort.
Posted by: Qyn

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/Strategy Session - 06/09/11 06:01 AM

I'm very glad there were no zebras ... hugging to you and Max. Looks like you had the best in the business looking at Max so that means a lot.
Posted by: bianca

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/Strategy Session - 06/09/11 06:38 AM

That is good news! Are there any further tests/investigations to determine what the adrenal thing means to Max?
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/results - 06/09/11 04:14 PM

I just talked to the vet. She wasn't concerned about the small adrenals, since she doesn't know if they are abnormally small. They might be regular small. Bloodwork in March didn't show any signs of adrenal issues, and it hasn't historically (I left them a copy of my spreadsheat for him smile ), so that may or may not be a red herring.

She did talk with the radiologist. There is no evidence of heart disease, some changes in the airways (mineralization) that they say is common with aging.

They did say that something was undersized, and I think it was his heart. He shows evidence of being hypovolemic, having low blood volume, and consistent with dehydration, though she mentioned he isn't a dehydrated dog. She mentioned Addison's, but also that nothing else supports this, and moved on to maybe something like pulmonary hypertension, which is what the regular vet had mentioned when we were brainstorming.

Of course, I'm fearing the damned TBD's have maybe affected his heart, as with Indy, but in a different way.
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/results - 06/09/11 05:12 PM

So what's the next step?

Is Max still fatigued?

MJ
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/results - 06/09/11 05:58 PM

Oops, forgot to mention - cardiologist 7/15. Good I qualify for Care Credit shocked

Yes, he fatigues easily, pants A LOT just walking across the room frown
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/results - 06/10/11 10:16 AM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
cardiologist 7/15.


That seems like a long time to wait for a potential heart problem-but I know that it can be longer for human beings in the same situation.

So Max (and Lisa) need a lot of heart-felt good wishes to keep things OK. grouphug There some go from the east to the west coast.

Mary Jane
Posted by: JeanKBBMMMAAN

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/results - 06/10/11 01:48 PM

Glad that you will be able to go see a cardiologist to see if there's something weird with all of that, hopefully right that day. Good luck Max!
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/results - 06/10/11 04:58 PM

Thank you so much hugging

I might have been able to get into UC Davis, but I like the cardio the clinic uses. This was Indy's cardio. She is only there once a month though, and I missed her June day.

As soon as the exam is complete, I'll know what is going on. Not sure what to hope for here!
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 07/15/11 11:03 PM

Max had his cardiac consult today.........

The cardiologist looked at his chest xrays and said that she did agree that his heart looked undersized and that his veins (pulmonary vasculature) could hardly be seen. She said that he did look hypovolemic and the appearance of a severely dehydrated dog. She did say that he himself didn't look at all dehydrated! She did say that the chest xrays look a lot like an Addison's dog, but was curious to see what she would find once she hooked him up.

She found no heart disease. She did find a couple of leaky valves (left side of the heart) that were very minor, and there is no murmur yet. If a murmur develops, then I should have a follow-up with her to monitor, etc. She said that the minor leaks are most likely a part of the aging process.

The left side of his heart however, is undersized. She said that this a result of whatever process is going on in his body. While affecting his heart, it isn't heart disease.

His EKG was fine. She noted that, although his BP was normal, it was not normal for a dog that was getting an echocardiogram, it was normal for a dog at home resting. So she considers his BP low.

She said that his bloodwork certainly doesn't look like Addison's, but it could be atypical, and Addison's certainly would explain the majority of his symptoms. She said if it wasn't Addison's, it might be the kidneys, not controlling water balance, like with diabetes insipidous, though he no longer has the symptoms of that (he did many years ago). If it isn't either of those, she doesn't have a clue. Her recommendation was to first have the Addison's test done, and then go from there.

Soooooo.....I already had a follow-up appt scheduled for Tuesday, I have an email into the vet checking to see if we can run the Addison's test then. I would rather do that with the regular vet, if it works for her.

Still searching, hoping we are getting closer.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 07/15/11 11:09 PM

Oh, she did said that she checked super carefully for hemangio and found no evidence, that's great news smile
Posted by: LifeAsMe

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 07/15/11 11:18 PM

Great news on the hemangio! I missed this thread before. I'm so sorry Max is having problems. frown
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 07/15/11 11:20 PM

Thanks LaM. I hope that Tuesday brings some answers.
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 07/15/11 11:22 PM

The saga of Max continues.

So ...he is basically sound medically, yet they cannot determine the cause of his problems. thinking

The leaky valves sound scary, but that is normal for an aging dog?

I guess I would be encouraged with their findings but scared that it doesn't change what you are seeing with him.

What is your next step for Max?

Hope you both have a good weekend and get away from your worries. hugging
Posted by: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 07/15/11 11:26 PM

No signs of Hemangio is good news. I had to go Google to make sure what it was.

I was hoping and not hoping for answers. Answers would have been heart involved, but no answer is frustrating.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 07/15/11 11:37 PM

Very frustrating. Healthy and not healthy penguin_spin <<those are the wheels in my head that keep spinning in circles crazy

I am glad that there was agreement on what all the different types of vets saw on the xray. At least that's *something*.

So, Addison's test on Tuesday, hopefully. I think Addison's is easier to treat than Cushing's, and Kathy showed us how great a person can do treating a Cushing's dog.

Hoping for some answers and some relief for the boy!

(eta: Val, I've been doing lots of googling...hypovolemic, never had heard of it!)
Posted by: bianca

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 07/16/11 06:06 AM

Lisa how long does it take to get the results of the Addison's test back? Is it something you have to wait a while for?

Hoping you get some definitive answers for your dear boy.
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 07/16/11 10:46 AM

Surprise! Max has a great heart-you knew that didn't you Lisa smile

Of course it's frustrating to go through the entire study of veterinary medicine ruling out body systems-but the absence of heart disease is important going forward.

Another challenge, I guess...

all possible good wishes,
Mary Jane
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 07/16/11 05:10 PM

Originally Posted By: Mary Jane
Surprise! Max has a great heart-you knew that didn't you Lisa smile


wub that made me laugh, thank you MJ!

Yes, frustrating is a good word. This might be about the most expensive path to get a diagnosis, but I have a learned a lot of valuable things along the way. I do keep reading about megasophagus on my journey (can be caused by addison's), so I've been thinking good thoughts for Wolf along the way!!

Bianca, I don't know how long I have to wait for the results (too long I'm sure!), I was just wondering this morning if I am making a mistake about waiting for his regular vet on Tuesday - I keep reading about hypovolemic shock shocked

There is an herbal that I was using over vacation that seemed to really help, specifically called Adrenal Support. It just called to me from the shelf of the health food store. I will load him up with that after the test, while waiting for the results.

I don't think we've had an Addison's dog on the forum? They list GSDs as one of the more susceptible breeds frown
Posted by: SeanRescueMom

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 07/17/11 10:58 PM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
I don't think we've had an Addison's dog on the forum?


Lisa, I think I remember someone on the 'old' board who had a dog w/Addison's. Don't know if you would want to do a search or not. Hugs to Max. hugging
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 07/18/11 04:26 AM

SRM, I just did that and have started a pm! She's on this forum too smile

I will relay the hugs....of course, he doesn't understand why I'm not taking him on longer walks, or letting him out too much - just trying to keep him bored and unstressed until Tuesday. And that's causing me more stress hammer
Posted by: JeanKBBMMMAAN

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 07/18/11 11:23 AM

When do you find out about the Addison's? I tried to read it all carefully but apparently I did not!

Is that the one with the thinner skin?

One more day...
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 07/18/11 02:16 PM

The skin, I can't remember about the thin skin, I think I did read that somewhere - it does get pigmented though.

*i think* the test has a day or two turn around, which is a break.

Vet hopes the electrolytes aren't off - primary Addison's she says is expensive to treat frown I am hoping for atypical Addison's.


Yes, one more day, starting to count the hours now! Tough to live with a dog that can't breath, scary.
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 07/18/11 11:44 PM

I'll be thinking of both of you tomorrow. hugging
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 07/19/11 04:33 AM

Thank you for thinking of us. Our appointment is at 10am, chiro later that afternoon. Dropped an email to the vet so that we are thinking if any other labs need to be run, and to be sure they have the right stuff to run the addison's test - I guess when a dog is hypovolemic, they don't absorb some of the test stuff well, so a different type has to be used.

We went to training tonight and he survived. I was nervous about taking him in this condition, but we had some unfinished business from last week that had to be dealt with. It was stressful....dog reactive training class is not for the weak, and can't be good for the adrenals!

Okay, better get some sleep tonight, big day tomorrow!
Posted by: bianca

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 07/19/11 04:54 AM

I just found this site, not sure if it is of any use but

http://www.addisondogs.com/addisons/

We are keeping our fingers and paws crossed here that you get some answers and that they are good answers hugging

Reactive class - you are brave, I find it stressful having the only reactive dog in the group!
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 07/19/11 10:18 AM

Lots of fingers crossed here crossedfingers for a diagnosis and treatment plan going forward. I'm so glad you posted the time of Max's appointment, somehow I feel like I can worry more effectively if I synchronize with when the poor guy is being poked and prodded.

I guess the chiropracter is to relieve all the built up tension of training and exam and general nerves. Maybe you could try a massage for yourself.

all best wishes,
Mary Jane
Posted by: Natalie559

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 07/19/11 02:09 PM

Hoping everything goes well for you and Max!
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 07/19/11 03:48 PM

It's almost noon in California, so Max and Lisa should be finished.

I hope we hear about a recovery plan soon.

MJ
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 07/19/11 05:45 PM

We've been home a bit, and resting before the chiropractor. With Max's cardio exam, and stressing his neck at training, and blood from the neck today, he really needs an adjustment.

The good news is that his electrolytes are normal, so if this is adrenal related (please, let it be!), then it isn't the expensive type (yeah!!). If we get a diagnosis, it's been about a $1,200 diagnosis though, so far, and that's with a vet that's given me a bit of a break. The vial that they use to inject today, that alone, was just shy of $130.

I have been emailing my vet updates as we've done the u/s, xrays, and echocardiogram. She told me today that when she first read that today we would do the ACTH Stim test, that her first thought was, "oh, no, steroids" - she knows what an aversion I have to giving them. However, with adrenal insufficiency, at a physiological dose, it makes sense to me and doesn't offend me at all....I never in my life thought I'd be hoping for a steroid fix shocked

Saw a puppy there at the beginning of puppy strangles, though of Jean and her new foster, can't remember the name - vet was quick to point out, "see.....another thing steroids are good for" laugh

So, I am hoping that I find out Wed night or Thursday, we just don't know for sure when the results will be in.

Gotta leave for the chiro now. Thank you for all the good vibes and well wishes. He was very stressed and leary at the vet's today, not like him. He takes every opportunity to lie down and rest. The last two nights I've slept on the floor downstairs with him, he's been too tired and weak for me to ask him to go upstairs at night time. Hoping this will bring him some relief.
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 07/19/11 05:57 PM

OK, at least a good possibility this could be better than it might have been.

Sounds like a stressful day for both of you and now the chiro visit.

Let's hope the news comes and fast and it is good.
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 07/19/11 07:02 PM

I read a few words about Addison's disease and atypical sounded like something manageable (I think). I agree with Lisa completely (a pretty safe thing to do)-I hate steroids but when you have that kind of hormonal deficiency, I guess that's what you do.

I hope there are lots of cushions on the floor and everybody gets some needed rest tonight.

more best wishes,
MJ
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 07/19/11 09:26 PM

I'm back, and exhausted! More cushions sound really good right now!

Now we wait..... impatient
Posted by: bianca

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 07/20/11 04:31 AM

Keeping you and Max in my thoughts hugging I hope he feels more relaxed now after his adjustment.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 07/20/11 12:14 PM

Thank you bianca. He was exhausted after the day, and I'm sure he felt better!

Still impatient
Posted by: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 07/20/11 12:32 PM

Lisa just checking in on you and Max. Did you get some rest last night? I see you are still waiting for results. Sending good vibes to you and Max.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 07/20/11 02:13 PM

Thanks Val, I am so stressed right now! This vet is only in once a week, but she said she would keep checking for it...
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 07/20/11 02:21 PM

You can't be stressed Lisa- so many dogs and people need you at your peak performance essentially constantly- you help us all so much!

To sit there and listen to Max's labored breathing is torture, it's not like torture or as bad as torture, it is torture to hear your sweet boy suffer.

Can't you please complain more, maybe that would help.

hang in there,
MJ
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 07/20/11 05:48 PM

Awwww, Mary Jane, thank you!

I've just been holding my breath for the last month, and the last week, just hoping he doesn't go into shock from lack of blood flow or oxygen frown

The panting, the breathing, it's a bit like the dripping water torture.


Definitely something to be said for a vet that knows your dog. She could tell how off his energy level is, how much harder it is now to find a vein and draw blood. A new vet, just might have figured all that was normal for a 10 year old shepherd.

I sorta keep looking for a new vet as this one gets closer to retirement, and the last one that I tried (and fired!), was not proactive because for a 10 year, he was looking good, so didn't want to do anything.
Posted by: JeanKBBMMMAAN

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 07/20/11 06:01 PM

impatient

paranoid

gsdbeggin

Waiting.

Yes - the prednisilone is pretty amazing when needed!
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/waiting - 07/20/11 06:33 PM

Originally Posted By: JeanKBBMMMAAN
Yes - the prednisilone is pretty amazing when needed!


Prednisilone

Prednisone

Cortisone

Hydrocortisone

Anyone have good insights into the differences? I started asking the vet, but there was so much going on, we didn't get a chance to talk about it.

Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/waiting - 07/21/11 01:56 AM

It's not Addison's.

His resting cortisol is low though, I don't know what that means.

I'm afraid for the boy.
Posted by: LJsMom

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/waiting - 07/21/11 06:43 AM

Well crap. I'm sorry you didn't get any answers for Max. hugging
Posted by: bianca

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/waiting - 07/21/11 07:00 AM

Can I say Shit I am so sorry there were no answers Lisa hugging So what plan does your vet have now?

A bit if info re the differences :

http://www.csrf.net/dr_answers/question:_what_are_the_differences_between_hydrocortisone_cortisone_acetate_prednisone_and_dexamethasone.php

^^^^ can't get link to work so here is the page:

Question: What are the differences between hydrocortisone, cortisone acetate, prednisone, and dexamethasone? Are there any guidelines as to when one is used versus another?

Answer: These compounds are all adrenal steroid analogs; specifically, they are called glucocorticoids. Glucocorticoids affect carbohydrate, protein, and fat metabolism, bone metabolism, and immune and inflammatory functions. In contrast, the mineralocorticoid aldosterone, also secreted by the adrenal, regulates sodium and potassium metabolism and fluid balance. The glucocorticoid that is produced by the body is cortisol, also known as hydrocortisone. Cortisone acetate is the glucocorticoid cortisone with an ester group attached that makes it soluble in water. Cortisone is biologically inactive and is rapidly converted to cortisol by the liver so that it can exert its effects. Hydrocortisone and cortisone acetate are both short-acting glucocorticoids. They are given once daily, in the early morning, to patients who are recovering from Cushing's syndrome or are being tapered off pharmacological dosages of glucocorticoids to allow their hypothalamic -pituitary-adrenal axis to recover. These are the only circumstances in which I prescribe hydrocortisone, and I do not use cortisone acetate.

Prednisone and dexamethasone are also synthetic glucocorticoids. Prednisone is 4 to 5 times more potent than hydrocortisone and has a longer duration of action, perhaps 12 hours or more. Dexamethasone is 40 to 50 times more potent than hydrocortisone and even longer-acting, 18 to 24 hours. Both of these glucocorticoids are given when a prolonged action is desired. This includes replacing cortisol in patients with permanent adrenal insufficiency (Addison's disease) or suppressing ACTH secretion in patients with congenital adrenal hyperplasia. In such cases, the medication is taken at bedtime, thus the patient awakens with appropriate levels of steroid. Very rarely, these medications cause insomnia if taken at night. These longer acting glucocorticoids are also used to suppress inflammation or immune rejection, and both are less expensive than hydrocortisone.

If a patient with permanent adrenal insufficiency is doing well on hydrocortisone replacement, usually split between two or three doses, the largest taken in the morning, I usually do not change the medication. However, if the patient is not doing well, I will change the medication to dexamethasone or prednisone. Some of my patients have reported remarkable improvements in their quality of life on these longer acting medications. The longer acting glucocorticoids have been reported to have greater catabolic activity on bone, but there is no evidence that they act differently than cortisol. Rather, it is probably because they are used in inappropriately high dosage.

The usual replacement dosages of these glucocorticoids are : hydrocortisone about 25 mg/day, cortisone acetate about 37.5 mg/day, prednisone about 5 mg/day, and dexamethasone about 0.5 mg/day. Glucocorticoid replacement in any patient must be carefully monitored and individualized.


http://ratguide.com/meds/endocrine_hormones/prednisone_prednisolone.php

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1841223/?page=1

http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/servle...=hydrocortisone

From briefly skimming, cortisone and hydrocortisone are short acting. Prednisone is 4/5 X more potent than hydrocortisone.

Not sure if this explains anything re low cortisol:

http://labtestsonline.org/understanding/analytes/cortisol/tab/test
Posted by: Barb E

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/waiting - 07/21/11 09:31 AM

hugging
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/waiting - 07/21/11 11:20 AM

Lisa,

What can I possibly say except I hope fervently for the best for Max and you,

MJ
Posted by: Kris

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/waiting - 07/21/11 12:49 PM

Lisa, I'm sorry I haven't posted sooner. I tend to pop into the fun threads... blush Hoping that you can get everything resolved soon and Max is feeling better. I have no advice, but just wanted to offer my support to you both... hugging hugging
Posted by: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/waiting - 07/21/11 01:34 PM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
It's not Addison's.

His resting cortisol is low though, I don't know what that means.

I'm afraid for the boy.


Lisa I Googled "Resting coritsol is low"

This is one of the sites I found.
http://www.addisondogs.com/addisons/

Quote:
Resting cortisol should range from 1-4 ug/dl in the average dog, and should be significantly higher, in the range of 6-20 ug/dl, post-stimulation. (These numbers may vary depending on the lab.) If resting cortisol is low and the dog has no or a low response to the stimulation, the diagnosis is Addison's disease. Be aware that some glucocorticoids, such as predinsone, can affect the results of the ACTH test, while dexamtheasone does not.


I don't know if this will help you and Max or not.

Sending good vibes to Max.
Posted by: JeanKBBMMMAAN

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 07/21/11 02:36 PM

Quote:
There is an herbal that I was using over vacation that seemed to really help, specifically called Adrenal Support. It just called to me from the shelf of the health food store. I will load him up with that after the test, while waiting for the results.


Could that have thrown off the test?

I did like Val and googled that quote and then hypovelmic and got this kind of thing:

http://www.beaconforhealth.org/addisons_articles_atypical.html
http://www.vet.uga.edu/VPP/clerk/groover/index.php

I will confess to not reading them well but not sure if that google combo will give you anything new.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 07/21/11 02:40 PM

Thanks Val, the problem is that he "stimmed high", showing that he responded, and thus his adrenals appear to be working.

After some extensive googling, I did find a weird way for that to happen, and it still be considered an adrenal problem. It would be a problem with his pituitary gland. With all the problems he has with his head - lymph nodes, eye, neck etc, it's not a stretch to believe that pituitary is diseased. I don't know if the vet believes that though, I have an email into the vet, and I know she has to think about these things, or consult.

Thank you everyone, I'm just very upset about this. My boy is slowly dying and I don't stand a chance of stopping it if I don't know what it is teary

Bianca, VERY interesting about the difference in the meds when being used for this purpose, thank you.

The vet talked about even referring to UC Davis, but they have never been smarter than the vets I've already had, so I'm not keen on that idea.

I guess I wait and see what the vet says.
Posted by: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 07/21/11 04:21 PM

Lisa I wasn't sure how he stimmed. Shoot.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals - 07/21/11 04:44 PM

I'm sorry Val, I should've posted all the info, not thinking straight. Here's the screen shot, I hope it can be read. The comments below the ranges really only apply to Cushing's and not Addison's.




Oh, I did find this:

Quote:
Interpretation for secondary adrenal insufficiency

ACTH may dramatically stimulate cortisol from the low baseline value encountered in patients suffering from secondary adrenal insufficiency. Stimulation resulting in a greater than 14-fold increase in serum concentration over 30 minutes has been reported, although more typically serum cortisol levels will double or triple from baseline. The lower the baseline cortisol, the more likely it is that the patient's cortisol will increase by a large amount.



Okay, that was wikipedia and for humans ( http://tinyurl.com/yapz3v2 ), but it is sourced to Mosby's Diagnostic and Laboratory Testing, 2nd edition. But it's possible that it still is pituitary from that comment....his pituitary isn't making or sending ACTH, so his adrenals don't work. However, when the ACTH was injected IV, replacing what his pituitary would send, then his adrenals responded because they are not yet atrophied.

My head has been spinning trying to keep this all straight and understand how that test could fail. Never in my life would I have thought I would be asking my vet for steroid treatment.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals - 07/21/11 04:57 PM

Jean, just saw your post, thank you.

I think I may be supporting his adrenals too well, so that they haven't atrophied yet. That's my story so far, so, yes, the herbals and supplements, as a long term thing, have probably interfered with this, so that he doens't present typically.

Thanks for the links, I haven't read one, and the second, I need to re-read, now that I have some understanding of this complicated stuff. Endocrine stuff...so confusing!

eta: wonder if my endocrinologist would be offended if I asked her....
Posted by: LJsMom

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals - 07/21/11 08:12 PM

How about a road trip to Cornell? Only 2700 miles!

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
eta: wonder if my endocrinologist would be offended if I asked her....


My eye doctor liked talking about Wooly Bear's eyes.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals - 07/21/11 10:56 PM

That would be a heck of a commute! They saved Indy once, sure wish I could give them a shot at Max.

The eye doc I just went to this summer seemed to enjoy talking about Max's eyes, maybe it's something about eye docs laugh
Posted by: bianca

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals - 07/22/11 06:32 AM

Lisa could you arrange a consult with Cornell via emails, web cam maybe?

Hoping Max is doing Ok hugging
Posted by: Qyn

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 07/22/11 08:29 AM

Just wanted you to know that even though I haven't posted anything I am reading every post and wishing you and Max the best. ((((hugging))))
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? - 07/22/11 04:41 PM

Thank you Qyn, I appreciate it.

bianca, I'm not sure what I'm going to do yet.

I decided this morning to get a current blood panel, to make sure that the hypovolemia isn't from a subtle bleed (like low platelets) rather than fluid imbalance. I found references to hypovolemia with some tick diseases frown His gums haven't gone pale like they used to do, but these dogs are so wierd. So I will be stopping by the other clinic that uses Idexx labs.

I have an idea on a drug therapy, emailed the vet, will see what happens with the bloodwork first, will see if she comes up with anything else. I have no idea how aggressively she is pursuing this.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? - 07/22/11 07:12 PM

OMG, I've never seen blood like that come from any of my dogs before, I thought Indy's was bad frown

Took three tries to barely get enough, slow and thick, and clotted into a gloppy blob at the end of the syringe.

I'm glad I got the bblood now, in a week, maybe not frown

It won't be ready until Monday impatient I am going to start him on an Addison's dose of pred (I have some expired), unless I hear from the vet tonight not to. There's another drug that might be helpful, am still researching that one, though it just helps with blood flow, not the cause for the low volume blood.

Weekends are tough!
Posted by: LJsMom

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? - 07/22/11 07:55 PM

Really stinks to have to wait until Monday!

Did the vet have comments on Max's blood? You would think with the supplements he's on that his blood would easily flow.

I'm sorry he's having such a tough time. hugging
Posted by: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? - 07/22/11 08:05 PM

Lisa you and Max can't catch a break. I quit donating blood because it took forever for the draw, one time three people came and left and I was still there slowly filling the bag.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? - 07/22/11 09:07 PM

Thanks LJsMom and Val.

Joanne, I had decreased his vitamin E earlier, so I increased that back up when I fed him when we got home. I don't know what else to do right now. Apple juice with manuka honey for hydration and electrolyte support. I gave him the pred, he's resting now. I hope that the bloodwork holds a clue.

I didn't see the vet today, just a couple of the techs, they just squeezed me in so that I could get the bloodwork done. I did leave a note for the vet, explaining what was going on. She does his acupuncture, so isn't in the loop, so to speak.

Val, it sounds like you have slow blood too, what a pain! Somewhere out there, someone has your slow blood smile
Posted by: bianca

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? - 07/23/11 04:55 AM

Lisa I know Max has lots of allergies but some blood thining foods:

http://www.livestrong.com/article/323888-list-of-blood-thinning-foods/

http://www.nutralegacy.com/blog/general-healthcare/blood-thinning-foods-full/

How long are you expecting to wait to see if the pred will do anything?

hugging for you and a gentle pat for Max.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? - 07/23/11 07:50 PM

Thank you bianca, I will look those over and see what I can do with his diet.

I am obsessively thinking in circles here on what to do as a next step. Even IF pred is the answer, I need to know how to help the hypovolemia and get more blood flow through his heart and to his tissues. No wonder he was having so many issues with his feet, and maybe even lack of blood flow impeded the fistula healing.

Answers, looking for answers!
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? - 07/23/11 08:53 PM

Oh, Max - more hugs to you and Mom.

You must be so worried. I hope Monday at least brings more answers than questions this time.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? - 07/23/11 09:19 PM

Max says thank you smile

I am so worried, and prone to unpredictable fits of tears frown

I may have a plan for my next steps, wish it weren't the weekend, I have to make a few calls during business hours. I'd feel better if I thought our current vet was making this a priority frown
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? - 07/23/11 09:57 PM

I'm getting a 2nd opinion tomorrow at 11am.
Posted by: LJsMom

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? - 07/23/11 10:18 PM

I hope it's fruitful!
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? - 07/23/11 10:24 PM

Thank you Joanne, me too! I feel a bit better right now.
Posted by: Barb E

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? - 07/23/11 10:30 PM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
I'm getting a 2nd opinion tomorrow at 11am.


thumbup
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? - 07/24/11 11:08 AM

Fresh eyes-wonderful idea. Sometimes even recounting Max's relevant history to an interested, trainer listener will draw something different out.

When I have unpredictable tears, it's both anxiety and exhaustion. Somehow Lisa find a way to relax for an hour.

all best wishes to MaxaLisa,
Mary Jane
Posted by: TMarie

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? - 07/24/11 11:47 AM

Just wanted to let you know that I have been following this, just haven't posted. Hoping for the very best for Max and you.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? - 07/24/11 05:49 PM

Thank you everyone. I'm so worried about the boy.

I have transferred primary care of the boy to a couple of the other vets at the clinic. Now I have someone there, familiar with his case, every day, including weekends.

I hope this plan of action isn't too late and that we still have time to get him better, but here are the results of the day....


1) Rebalance Max's diet with someone trained to be sure that that isn't contributing to his disease process.

2) While it's not Addison's, there are lots of other hormonal disorders, many that don't have names or tests. There is a lab in Texas that does some hormonal testing that the vet had heard about from a different vet. Coincidentally, it was Max's Derm for his fistula that mentioned this, so I am going to follow this up. This might make the most sense, since there is a protocol by Dr. Plechner, that I think uses this same lab, and I've been staring at Plechner's website for the last week. The universe might be speaking.

3) The vet wants to refer to a smart internist, not just anybody. But she couldn't think of anybody that she knew that she felt we would get the most bang for our buck. We are still working on that. She mentioned finding someone that can test for myasthenia gravis.

I am giving him 5 mg of pred, twice a day (twice what would be his Addison's dose). She filled a script for it, and said that I may have to increase it. His eyes, nose, and coat color are already better from the pred, but I think the lymph nodes worse.

Bloodwork will be in Monday morning. I will be busy Monday it sounds like.

I am happy with the response, and hope it's not too late.
Posted by: LJsMom

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? - 07/24/11 07:13 PM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
The universe might be speaking.


Not the universe, just Miss Indy.
Posted by: JeanKBBMMMAAN

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? - 07/24/11 07:35 PM

What about seeing a vet endocrinologist - do they know any good ones?

Can you give ABX w/the pred?

"Nowadays, a simple (though not inexpensive) blood test can be done to check for antibodies against Acetylcholine receptors. This blood test is falsely negative in only 2% of cases. These same antibody blood levels can be used to monitor treatment progress. When antibodies drop to less than 0.6 nmol/L clinical signs generally resolve."

http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_myasthenia_gravis.html
http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/vsr/Neurology/Disorders/Myasthenia%20Gravis.html

Looking forward to good info tomorrow!
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? - 07/24/11 08:31 PM

Originally Posted By: LJsMom
Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
The universe might be speaking.


Not the universe, just Miss Indy.


wub
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? - 07/24/11 08:40 PM

Originally Posted By: JeanKBBMMMAAN
What about seeing a vet endocrinologist - do they know any good ones?

Can you give ABX w/the pred?

"Nowadays, a simple (though not inexpensive) blood test can be done to check for antibodies against Acetylcholine receptors. This blood test is falsely negative in only 2% of cases. These same antibody blood levels can be used to monitor treatment progress. When antibodies drop to less than 0.6 nmol/L clinical signs generally resolve."

http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_myasthenia_gravis.html
http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/vsr/Neurology/Disorders/Myasthenia%20Gravis.html

Looking forward to good info tomorrow!


Do they have vet endocrinologists???? I bet UCD has one, but from what I last heard how they were training their new vets in thyroid testing, no way....

I had no idea that UCD had "meat sales" http://www.examiner.com/nutrition-in-sac...al-science-site

Thanks for those links Jean. I just looked, and all they need is a blood draw to test for MG - looks like Indy had that test when she was young and I was trying to find out what was wrong with her. I think the vet must have been thinking of the injection stuff. I just called here and left a message.

If we find out about this lab in Texas, then we can send the blood there for a hormone panel, and also test for MG, and, with all of that, hopefully find someway to get him better! Hopefully! (We better, I ran out of money awhile ago shocked )
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? - 07/24/11 08:41 PM

Originally Posted By: JeanKBBMMMAAN
Can you give ABX w/the pred?


Yes! I don't know if all antibiotics, but the regular abx (doxy and amoxy), yes.

No Metacam I guess, NSAIDs and pred, can't remember why that's bad, but I remember it's not good!
Posted by: JeanKBBMMMAAN

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? - 07/24/11 08:45 PM

They do! There is a very nice one at Cornell. Because no normal vet likes endocrinology I think! They could consult with them maybe?

http://www.akitaclub.org/health/health/mgshelton1.html is that the place for the test? Or a place? I mean you know Texas A/M GI stuff, Michigan or Dodds for Thyroid...where for that? I will ask - I swear the rescue tested a dog for it. STOP THE STEROIDS!* I think - right?

Meat sales! MMMmmmm?

I am sure all the tests coming up are free...right...

*and find out the washout time
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? - 07/24/11 09:02 PM

I wish we had a Cornell here, no fair!

I just emailed the vet that wrote that article, to ask about the hypovolemia and the steroids, then I realized that page was updated in 2008....off to see if she is still there.....
Posted by: JeanKBBMMMAAN

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? - 07/24/11 09:05 PM

Stop the steroids! ETA - for the test! penguin_spin

Hopefully she is.

I know - maybe they can do a phone consult vet to specialty?
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? - 07/24/11 09:06 PM

She's still listed on their webpage: http://vetneuromuscular.ucsd.edu/index.html UCSD is the place for this, this is where Indy's was sent.

Jean, if you know, or can easily find out about the steroid wash-out time, that would be great.

He's 80 pounds, and has only been on 5 mg, twice a day, which is a pretty small dose, I think. And for only about 4 or 5 days.
Posted by: JeanKBBMMMAAN

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? - 07/24/11 09:12 PM

Double check on this:
http://users.cyberport.net/~milnerwm/dachsieFAQ/antiinflam2.html

Looks like one week. Longer if they are injectible. But that's for adding a NSAID - but I am imagining it's the same?
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? - 07/24/11 09:20 PM

Crap, what if he's not alive in a week without the steroids?

I hope that the person emails me back.

I did read in that one article you posted, that steroids have an effect of making an MG patient worse for the first two weeks, which was weird. This is all weird.
Posted by: JeanKBBMMMAAN

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? - 07/24/11 09:58 PM

Titer - Acetylcholine Receptor Antibody Titer Test -- this is the test done at Comparative Neuromuscular Laboratory at University of CA San Diego (USCD). It is only done here http://vetneuromuscular.ucsd.edu/

http://vetneuromuscular.ucsd.edu/forms/Serviceweb81.pdf

http://vetneuromuscular.ucsd.edu/cases/2008/Aug08.html

Lisa - this is from BDBH's director. I hope it helps. I would call them and talk to them about it.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? - 07/24/11 10:01 PM

Yes, it helps, thank you!!

I better start making a list of all the phone calls I'm supposed to make tomorrow!

Again, thanks
Posted by: JeanKBBMMMAAN

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? - 07/24/11 10:04 PM

Good luck - they may be able to take that into consideration I wonder. Will be keeping paws crossed here.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? - 07/24/11 10:09 PM

Thank you, I'm much more hopeful than I was a bit ago. (Hang in there Max!)

I also had a brief conversation with the nutritionist over at Our Dogs Online. She did mention that the things that Max does well on digestively, will tend to make him more acidic, which is bad for Addison's disease, so maybe not good for something that looks like Addison's. It's very important to get the right amounts of the alkalizing minerals. In theory, I should be able to re-balance his diet myself (I've had to remove a lot of stuff over the last many months), but I feel better not doing it this time, and handing it over to a professional.
Posted by: DancingCavy

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? - 07/24/11 10:23 PM

*HUGS* to you Lisa. Hoping you find some answers for Max soon.
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? - 07/24/11 11:24 PM

Lisa, you guys area so beyond me with your knowledge. penguin_spin

All I can say is that I continue to wish the best for Max and hope Monday brings some answers.
Posted by: JeanKBBMMMAAN

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? - 07/24/11 11:42 PM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
Originally Posted By: JeanKBBMMMAAN
Can you give ABX w/the pred?


Yes! I don't know if all antibiotics, but the regular abx (doxy and amoxy), yes.

No Metacam I guess, NSAIDs and pred, can't remember why that's bad, but I remember it's not good!


Bleeding I think - internal. I am psycho about that NSAID and steroid thing - like hide the knives psycho. smile Just saw that post and wanted to respond.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? - 07/24/11 11:46 PM

Thank you Jamie and Bonnie, we really appreciate it, and all good thoughts have to be helping Max get through each day!
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? - 07/24/11 11:50 PM

Originally Posted By: JeanKBBMMMAAN
Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
Originally Posted By: JeanKBBMMMAAN
Can you give ABX w/the pred?


Yes! I don't know if all antibiotics, but the regular abx (doxy and amoxy), yes.

No Metacam I guess, NSAIDs and pred, can't remember why that's bad, but I remember it's not good!


Bleeding I think - internal. I am psycho about that NSAID and steroid thing - like hide the knives psycho. smile Just saw that post and wanted to respond.


thumbup
Posted by: bianca

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? - 07/25/11 05:55 AM

I wish I had some pearls of wisdom to offer but unfortunately all I can do is send my best thoughts to you both hugging
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? - 07/25/11 08:57 AM

Originally Posted By: bianca
I wish I had some pearls of wisdom to offer but unfortunately all I can do is send my best thoughts to you both hugging


repeat, repeat again, repeat until things are better.

Mary Jane
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? - 07/25/11 12:28 PM

Keep repeating, please!!

It is pretty clear that pred is not the answer. In low doses, as a cortisol replacement, I can buy that.

I keep asking myself, how can dehydration cause hypovolemia in a dog that is not at all dehydrated.

Answer....it can't, it has to be his blood, or an internal bleed somewhere.

Okay, getting ready to greet the day. Of course, I had to type greet, great, and greet to make sure I got the right word....maybe not a good sign. Monday, I guess, here it is....
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? ticks? - 07/25/11 02:38 PM

Talked to his acu vet, where I get the bloodwork done.

His bloodwork is not bad at all (whew!). Two days on pred and his platelets are higher than they have been, ever, since 2005. His lymphocytes are no longer declining too.

This, is his tick crap, which has triggered inflammation that may be part autoimmune. Hypovolemia is caused by either dehydration, traumatic blood loss, or infection. Lots of connections to various tick infections.


I decided against the MG test, partly because he is on pred, and partly because it's not likely, and partly because the pred will address much of that.

We are moving forward on the specialized hormonal testing. I've got him back on his full tick protocol, he remains on pred for at least a bit, and the diet will get re-balanced.

He's still a very sick boy, but it's about the horses. This is not new for him, but a progression of an already established disease process.

Oh, I also got the name of an internist from the cardiologist, for a consult, and it's the same name that my regular vet just called with, so that's good. Same guy that helped Indy a lot, many many moons ago, and is responsible for me getting her vaccine disease diagnosed. I probably saw about 7 vets back then, and he was the only one that would run the right test!

So, we are getting closer.
Posted by: arycrest

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? ticks? - 07/25/11 03:14 PM

I've been off a while and just catching up on Max ... sending lots of loving thoughts and prayers his way!!!
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? ticks? - 07/25/11 03:47 PM

Thank you Gayle! I noticed that you hadn't been around much, hope it's just summer stuff, and nothing serious!
Posted by: JeanKBBMMMAAN

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? ticks? - 07/25/11 07:49 PM

Hey Gayle!

Hey Max - good! You know, Pred gets a bad rap, but it has its applications without a doubt. And is kind of a weirdly miraculous drug sometimes. So I hope by keeping him on abx and that nice dose...he will get a lot of benefit. The Prednisilone is not so hard on the liver from what I understand. Of course, I could be understanding that wrong (or misunderstanding I guess is the word).
Posted by: arycrest

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? ticks? - 07/25/11 08:43 PM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
Thank you Gayle! I noticed that you hadn't been around much, hope it's just summer stuff, and nothing serious!
Thanks Lisa ... my computer got a virus ... could only READ boards V-E-R-Y S-L-O-W-L-Y via my Kindle, could not post. Borrowed this lap top from my sister until I can get my computer fixed.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? ticks? - 07/26/11 01:25 AM

Originally Posted By: JeanKBBMMMAAN
Hey Max - good! You know, Pred gets a bad rap, but it has its applications without a doubt. And is kind of a weirdly miraculous drug sometimes. So I hope by keeping him on abx and that nice dose...he will get a lot of benefit. The Prednisilone is not so hard on the liver from what I understand. Of course, I could be understanding that wrong (or misunderstanding I guess is the word).


That's good to know. Know that I have a copy of his bloodwork, his ALT has doubled, though still in the normal range. I'm not sure if that can be from 3 days of pred...I sure hope not, otherwise we are in trouble.

If we do this hormonal protocol, I think that they use a more natural form of hydrocortisone. If we don't, I will ask about the prednisilone.

This bloodwork, sure would never have guessed it was Max's by just looking at it. Completely wonky and not at all like his blood profile. I don't get it....and no clumping or hemolysis, though there was lipemia. Just weird!

The trainer tonight noted that he looked good - his nose and eyes are better on the pred, and in this short amount of time, the pigment in his coat is coming back????? Must be something about fixing the cortisol is allowing the thyroid to work? VERY weird stuff that I don't understand. Always a journey crazy
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? ticks? - 07/26/11 01:25 AM

Originally Posted By: arycrest
Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
Thank you Gayle! I noticed that you hadn't been around much, hope it's just summer stuff, and nothing serious!
Thanks Lisa ... my computer got a virus ... could only READ boards V-E-R-Y S-L-O-W-L-Y via my Kindle, could not post. Borrowed this lap top from my sister until I can get my computer fixed.



AAACkk, computer h*ll. I'm glad that you have a loaner, I hope that yours gets fixed soon!
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? ticks? - 07/27/11 12:03 AM

I. am. tired.

Had the blood drawn today, and it's in my refrigerator. I have to get it packed up to send to Texas, so they can run that funny panel. Then I'm going to schedule a consultation with Dr. Plechner. The vet and I talked about this at length today, and she's game, since there is clearly something about Max that does not respond the way he is supposed to.

If all goes well, we'll have those results by next Tuesday. I don't yet know how the consultation will work.

I also spoke to her about doing vitamin C infusions. This would be down the line, since we have to take one step at a time, but I really think that this would help him. After talking to her, she seem enthusiastic that this was something that I might want to try with him.

I emailed the head of the neuro lab at UCSD, asking a few questions about myasthenia gravis, and, from the sounds of her reply, it really doesn't look like it. Of course, he could have a unique presentation. Trying to prioritize my finances here, that test is much lower on my list.

Some of you may remember that I'm taking Max to a dog reactive class, for issues that were worse after he was attacked at the beginning of the year. He still has fear that shoots through him, even if he hears a dog barking inside a house (even a yappy dog), but we did great today. After we left the vet clinic and were walking around the block before driving home, an Aussie got loose from her owners, about 3/4 of a block away, and came charging at Max at full speed.

Luckily I had enough time to yell at them to get their attention, and then stepped in front of Max and yelled at the Aussie, and I meant business. Poor girl, I must of have terrified her - I only said one or two words, but would have seriously harmed her had she come closer. She hit the ground, and after laying there a minute, turned and ran full speed back to her owner, who was getting ready to hit her, and I started yelling at him, no, no, no, she came back to you, she's fine, she's fine....so she only got a serious finger wag...of course she layed down on the ground and rolled on her back very submissively. She didn't want to hurt Max, I'm sure, but he was terrified, poor boy.

As we walked away, he kept looking at me like "what the heck just happened?", and you could tell he was relieved that nothing bad occurred. Not ten minutes later, I had to avoid another off leash dog - thank goodness for parked cars on the street to act as a screen. But it was a success, whew!
Posted by: bianca

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? ticks? - 07/27/11 04:41 AM

Lisa do you think some of this could be related to him being stressed? I think I recall Lin saying something along this line ages ago(with one of her dogs)?

Sending you some peaceful calm restful thoughts and a gentle hug for sweet Max hugging

Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? ticks? - 07/27/11 09:57 AM

Max doesn't have enough to deal with but he has to be harassed by out of control dogs-thank goodness Lisa knows what to do and can carry it off (no surprise). If Max were a case in the mystery diagnosis in the Sunday NY Times magazine his health would be provocative. In reality it's a terrible trial.

Not that I know, but if he's on cortisone, wouldn't that be somewhat helpful in the context of an autoimmune disease (MG)?

I really, really hope your consults lead to some constructive action.

I wish I knew something better to say-but all positive thoughts and calm for you both.

Mary Jane
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? ticks? - 07/27/11 02:05 PM

You know Mary Jane, after that last attack, I rehearsed in my head how I need to be if a dog approaches him again. I see the fear in Max's eyes, and it's actual fear for his life, and that's just heart breaking. No wonder the boy is stressed!

I was thinking the same thing about being on the pred if there is something autoimmune like MG. Part of me is wondering if he's having a reaction to the doxycycline - it's been 2 years now, with no decrease of dosage. A bit paralyzed about whether I should decrease the dose now that he's on pred

One day at a time I guess.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? ticks? - 07/27/11 03:09 PM

I googled chronic hypovolemia, and found this:

Quote:
Decrease In Circulating Blood Volume
Eighty percent, or the vast majority, of the patients in Bell and Streeten's first study (of 19 patients, versus the 20 in the more recent study), had a "marked, striking" decrease in circulating blood volume. "One nice thing about that finding," Bell said wryly, "is that it is a discrete physiological abnormality that cannot possibly be explained as psychosomatic."

How severe were the abnormalities? As mentioned before, the average was 70 percent of normal blood volume; still, "we have six people with only 50 percent of normal blood volume and yet they are still walking around. It seems to be a different mechanism than what happens to a healthy person [who loses that much blood] in a car accident."

In fact, the blood vessels in CFIDS seem to be constricted dramatically, and yet attempts to restore normal blood volume (through use of Florinef, salt, saline injections, transfusions) have met with only limited success so far. "All of the body's normal mechanisms to restore blood [when it is lost in other ways] seem to be turned off." It is as if the CFIDS body <wants> to have low blood volume and that its blood vessels want to stay constricted. Bell likens the blood vessels to water pipes that are only half the proper diameter - you simply cannot make a metal pipe hold any more fluid than the pipe is built to carry.

"When you tell people about these findings, their immediate question is, 'What happened to the blood? Where did it go?' The answer is we don't know. It's not like the patients bled out or are dehydrated - although they do experience a lot of thirst." Turning to the audience, Dr. Bell noted that his patients carry "buckets of fluid" with them at all times - an observation made by other clinicians. "How many people here also have excessive thirst? Whoa - look at all those hands!" It's as though some rudimentary alert system is crying out for more fluid, but because of the vasoconstriction, it just gets flushed away.

http://www.anapsid.org/cnd/diagnosis/oi.html


And that bolded part is exactly what has been spinning in my head.....

Yes, I need HOUSE!
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? ticks? - 07/27/11 03:31 PM

Lisa,

I just saw this and afraid I'm of no help at all here. I do want to send my best to both of you though. I really hope you can figure out exactly what's going on and figure out an effective protocol for treating Max. He is such a sweet boy...he doesn't deserve all of these health problems. hugging
Posted by: DancingCavy

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? ticks? - 07/27/11 07:38 PM

Poor Max getting rushed by off-leash dogs. It's every reactive dogs' nightmare and probably infinitely worse since he's not feeling well.

I really hope you're able to get some answers soon and get Max on a course of treatment so he'll be back to his old self again. *HUGS*
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? ticks? - 07/28/11 02:03 PM

Thank you Ruth and Jamie, he is such a sweet boy. However, I did get that statement the other day from a tech - such a sweet boy "for a shepherd". We've seen a lot of newer vet techs lately.

I had a brief conversation with Dr. Plechner yesterday, and sent off the blood to Texas for the hormone panel.

Plechner said something about the mix between genetics and environment contribute to make an estrogen dominance in the body, which then lowers cortisol and at the same time binds the T4. The cortisol is what is needed for conversion to T3. If he's IgA deficient, then he won't be able to absorb nutrients and in particular, oral medication, very well. Of course, that all has to be backed up by the test results.

Treatment, once things get leveled out, is two cheap drugs (prednisolone and I suppose soloxine?). I don't know how he treats the IgA deficiency.


He has a book out, which, if I had time to read it, I probably would. I think his website is just www.drplechner.com , and he's also at healthypetsnetwork.com , if I have remembered that right.


It would all fit for him, but we'll see, trying not to get my hopes up and keep thinking about all the options.

The nutritionist will be helping me rebalance his diet, and try to get him on the alkaline side of things. Right now he's very acidic and that's not helpful for this I guess. Plechner did recommend Nutramin (sp?) To help with this, and the nutritionist said it was a good product.

I am looking for something to dilate his blood vessels to help him circulate blood. No one seems to want to address that issue right now, and I'm worried about organ damage from reduced blood flow. There are already changes in his pancreas and liver enzymes. I can't say the low blood is the cause, but I think it's a front runner. Kinda waiting to see expenses to setup with the internist, so I have a backup if things go south. Just sending that blood overnight mail cost between $80 and $90.

The good news I guess is that he is maintaining and still here thumbup
Posted by: LJsMom

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? ticks? - 07/28/11 04:29 PM

You know, treatment for our dogs is never cheap; thereby decreasing the odds that this is Max's problem. I really hope I'm wrong!
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? ticks? - 07/29/11 07:29 PM

Originally Posted By: LJsMom
You know, treatment for our dogs is never cheap; thereby decreasing the odds that this is Max's problem.


I do hope that we can catch a break here, just once!!

I thought I was going to lose Max last night, he couldn't breath. Well, I guess he was breathing fine, he just couldn't seem to pump blood to where he needed it. He had to move from one place to the next about every 20 minutes because his heart was working so hard and it still wasn't sufficient. Then he would stand up, all arched, and I thought he was going to die.....how long can a heart beat at a zillion beats per minute and still hold out? I hate to think what is happening to his organs without the sufficient blood flow. Even if we get this figured out, I hope that his innards (love that word), can recover from the prolonged lack of blood flow. His bloodwork started showing evidence of this back in November, and, imo, once the bloodwork shows it, it's already been going on for awhile and the body has just lost it's ability to compensate.

His hormone results, I should have by Tuesday. As a backup, Tuesday afternoon, a consult with the internal medicine guy. The only thing online that I can find that fits his profile, is that CFIDS stuff, which is really "out there", though not inconsistent with his chronic infections. I personally think that there is mostly likely a problem with his pituitary or hypothalamus, and there is no treatment for that directly, only supportive care, which is why I think this hormone stuff, if the tests support it, are the best choice moving forward.

Even if it's the right thing, Dr. Plechner said that it will take a couple of weeks before we see Max starting to feel better, and I don't know how long after that if he can resolve the hypovolemia, or if he will need some supportive care.

I guess I treat him like a heartworm positive dog, in terms of limited activity. Heck, even barking at the UPS guy is a bit dangerous for him and takes awhile to recover from.

Dr. Plechner did call yesterday again, to let me know that he had touched base with my vet, and he answered a few more questions that I had, and he'll be on this as soon as the test results are ready. I expressed my concern to him that Max tends to test negative for everything, and he was pretty confident that this won't happen here, after knowing the history.

crossedfingers
Posted by: bianca

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? ticks? - 07/29/11 07:51 PM

Oh Lisa, how frightening frown

I am keeping Max firmly in my thoughts and prayers hugging

Come on Tuesday...
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? ticks? - 07/29/11 07:55 PM

Thank you bianca, it was very frightening.

I think I finally actually slept at about 5:30 this morning, I'm pretty groggy today. Thank goodness no appointments today or anything requiring important focus!
Posted by: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? ticks? - 07/29/11 08:21 PM

Lisa that had to be really scary. I would have been. I hope you can find some answers.
Posted by: Woodreb

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? ticks? - 07/29/11 08:29 PM

Keeping you and Max in my thoughts. Hope you can get some answers that make sense and can help him.
Posted by: LJsMom

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? ticks? - 07/29/11 09:08 PM

Dr. Plechner sounds like he really cares about Max. crossedfingers
Posted by: Natalie559

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? ticks? - 07/29/11 09:26 PM

Lisa- thinking of you and Max and hoping the absolute best for your boy!
Posted by: JeanKBBMMMAAN

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? ticks? - 07/29/11 09:28 PM

He sounds very good and maybe can talk to other specialty vets if needed about those other areas.

I am sorry for the big scare. Man!

The dose of Pred you would need if you have to suppress his immune system (not sure if that's still on the table) will freak you out. But it works, like...immediately.

You tell Mr. Max time to kick back and relax for a bit and you will bark at the UPS man. laugh
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? ticks? - 07/29/11 11:24 PM

Thank you, I thought to myself how unfair it would be to lose him, when I think I might be close to knowing how to support him.

Jean, I think the vets have to be open to this stuff, it's a bit out of the mainstream, and I'm very lucky that I have this acu vet that thought it was a valid idea. I haven't told the vet at the regular clinic yet that I kinda went a different route with the hormone testing. After looking at what she was thinking, she was thinking about University of Tennessee, where they seem to be looking mostly at atypical Cushing's, so kinda the opposite of what Max is, and, really, with a GSD, this IgA connection seems like a no brainer, if I look at him as a whole.

I ordered the NutraMin product, so that, in theory, should help his nutritional status. I have been frustrated his whole time here that I can't get him to absorb nutritients very well. His hair analysis a couple of years ago showed him under-nourished, which was very frustrating.

People keep telling me that he will need higher doses of pred/immune suppressants initially, so I'm trying to brace myself. Right now, he's at double an Addison's dose.

I will work on my bark! Woof!
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? ticks? - 07/30/11 08:35 AM

I hope you both got some sleep last night.

I have to say that the number of people who alert at every breath or pant or lack of which is both frightening and reassuring: lots of dogs with some problem and lots of people who worry.

I will always wish that I provided Wolf one tenth of the health advocate that Lisa rendered Indy and mystery disease Max. I'll never know what might have helped him. What's important is that Lisa uses anything she can think of, any resource, any wild idea, to care for her dogs and other dogs, as well.

Have a calm weekend with quiet nights for everybody.

MJ
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? ticks? - 07/30/11 01:47 PM

Oh Mary Jane, you are so dear, I so worry about you too hugging please don't be so hard on yourself, some things, as in Indy's death, you just can't stop or reverse hugging I'm going to go to Wolf's thread in a minute and reply more fully.

As for Max and I, the night was better. I've thrown everything I can think of at him, and taken away anything I think might be problematic, so, as long as he doesn't move or get excited, he can breath/pump.

Those test results better be negative.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? ticks? - 07/30/11 06:02 PM

I will say, on the very small doses of pred, he is having much less back pain....I don't even want to know what it might be doing to his pancreas and/or liver.

Found a few more names for the different types of hypovolemia. When not caused by dehydration or blood loss, it's also called relative hypovolemia or distributive shock. Looking at the different stages of shock, he is somewhere between stage 2 and 3, where the body is no longer able to compensate, and there are more dramatic changes in his chemistry. Stage 4, that's the bad stage, often irreversible damage to organs, if the dog survives.

The excerpt above, I believe, referred to a chronic constriction of blood vessels, this one, a dilation. Wish at least something wouldn't be fuzzy.

=====================

Distributive shock [a form of hypovolemia]
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributive_shock

Distributive shock is defined by hypotension and generalized tissular hypoxia. This form of relative hypovolemia is the result of blood vessel dilation. Septic shock is the major cause, but there are other examples as well.

Examples of this form of shock are:

* Septic shock - This is caused by an overwhelming infection leading to vasodilation, such as by Gram negative bacteria i.e. Escherichia coli which releases an endotoxin which produces adverse biochemical, immunological and occasionally neural mechanisms which are harmful to the body. Although tissues are being hyperperfused due to the massive vasodilation, the hypotensive state of the individual, paired with the massive inflammation found in septic shock, causes a reduction in tissular oxygen extraction (tissular hypoxia). Resultingly, [[SvO2]] levels are very high.

Septic shock is treated by antibiotics, fluid replacement, and vasoconstrictors.

* Anaphylactic shock - Caused by a severe anaphylactic reaction to an allergen, antigen, drug or foreign protein causing the release of histamine which causes widespread vasodilation. Leading to hypotension and increase capillary permeability.

* Acute adrenal insufficiency is frequently the result of discontinuing corticosteroid treatment without tapering the dosage.

* Neurogenic shock. Neurogenic shock is the rarest form of shock. It is caused by trauma to the spinal cord resulting in the sudden loss of autonomic and motor reflexes below the injury level. Without stimulation by sympathetic nervous system the vessel walls relax uncontrolled, resulting in a sudden decrease in peripheral vascular resistance, leading to vasodilation and hypotension.
Posted by: bianca

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? ticks? - 07/31/11 04:29 AM

Hang in there Lisa and Max hugging
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? ticks? - 07/31/11 03:17 PM

Thank you bianca.

Some talk today on the tick list about perhaps his persistently enlarged spleen (thought due to tick disease), is sequestering the blood. A definite possibility.
Posted by: bianca

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? ticks? - 08/02/11 10:06 AM

It's Tuesday night here so am guessing it's morning there and just wanted to wish you all the luck in the world today for the test results Lisa. Big hugging and zooming good thoughts to you both.
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? ticks? - 08/02/11 10:14 AM

Hormone results and an internist consult and it might as well be advanced Mandarin as far as I can help. I just want Lisa to find a path forward for Max.

crossedfingers crossedfingers crossedfingers for an actionable plan.

Mary Jane
Posted by: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? ticks? - 08/02/11 11:27 AM

Lisa, just checking in today on you and Max. I will check back later today to see what the results are of the test.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? ticks? - 08/02/11 12:17 PM

Thank you so much ladies, I am so hoping that today brings something to be happy about.

The appointment isn't until 3pm West Coast time, that gives me time to get together some of his info. I have to call my regular clinic, as of yesterday, they hadn't faxed his info.

Hormone results, think I'll shoot off an email in a bit.

Please, please, please...hoping for *something* today!
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? ticks? - 08/02/11 12:29 PM

**tears of happiness**

I can't read the pdf well on my phone, but just like Plechner predicted, high estrogen, low IgA (he even predicted the number). Oh yes, there is something we can fix, I hope, I hope!

Will post the full report when I get to the laptop.
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? ticks? - 08/02/11 12:41 PM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
**tears of happiness**

Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? ticks? - 08/02/11 01:03 PM

smile , thank you MJ!

Okay, these links should bring up the report.

I'm also including his results from an IgA study done in 2006, I thought Jean would find that particularly interesting, since she participated in this too.

We will have to repeat the Plechner results at some point, so there is no "#2" yet...


Plechner Results #1, 2011
http://tinyurl.com/3lzuwve


TAMU Results, 2006
http://tinyurl.com/3tr5u3k


Btw, those thyroid numbers, he's already on replacement at .7mg BID, a touch under the recommended amount for his weight. Increasing the numbers brings distress, but clearly he's not utilizing that.
Posted by: Woodreb

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? ticks? - 08/02/11 01:27 PM

Also wondering how you and Max are doing today.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? ticks? - 08/02/11 01:46 PM

Originally Posted By: Woodreb
Also wondering how you and Max are doing today.


Johanna, I think we must have been typing at the same time.

It looks like we have something to fix:

Plechner Results, 2011
http://tinyurl.com/3lzuwve


The theory about the low IgA, common in GSDs, is that when it is low, they cannot absorb things through their mucous membranes, which includes nutrients and medicines.

Dr. Plechner said something about hydrocortisone injections, rather than the oral meds, at first. I haven't talked to him yet. Our appt with the vet for this is on Thursday. I will keep this appointment today, I need a vet familiar with Max, now, and in the future. I don't know how long it will take to get Max out of the woods with this, though Plechner did mention it would take a couple of weeks before we noticed that Max is starting to feel better.

I guess the journey, this journey at least, is just beginning....
Posted by: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? ticks? - 08/02/11 02:17 PM

OH Lisa, fingers and paws crossed here for Max.

Just remember steroids when really needed and used properly are a godsend.
Posted by: Kris

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? ticks? - 08/02/11 02:24 PM

Agree with Val - steroids can be a godsend. Keeping all fingers crossed that this is the solution, Lisa. I know how badly you want Max to feel better.
Posted by: LJsMom

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? ticks? - 08/02/11 03:11 PM

I'm so relieved that this is fixable!
Posted by: Woodreb

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? ticks? - 08/02/11 07:46 PM

Looks like a plan may be starting to come together. crossedfingers for you and Max.
Posted by: DancingCavy

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? ticks? - 08/02/11 08:00 PM

So happy to hear there's a silver lining showing up. I hope you're able to get Max on a suitable plan and get him stabilized quickly. *HUGS* to you both!
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? ticks? - 08/02/11 08:49 PM

Lisa,

For goodness sake, more fervent hopes that you can integrate all the recommendations into a treatment plan-that's counting on some useful information from the internist consult.

Just more good wishes for you and Max,
MJ
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? etc? - 08/03/11 01:53 AM

Can I just say....my head hurts?

The short version:

Hormones, probably SIBO, and possibly (genetic?) pulmonary disease.

***********
The long version:


First, Dr. Plechner has sent recommendations for my vet to treat the hormonal syndrome that Max has. I have not yet talked to the acupuncture vet yet, and I hope that she will do this. Jean, you were right about the dosage on the shot, scary high for someone like me. I'm willing to take this leap of faith.

So, today, I was prepared to be disappointed, but I wasn't. Very open, very intelligent, confident, without that annoying ego smile and of course experienced, because he works at a referral only clinic with all the tough cases. Of course, without any testing, everything is kinda a hunch at this point. Btw, his "hunches" with Indy, about 11 years ago, were right on.

He saw three things that he was concerned about with Max.

Certainly the low cortisol, and, while Max isn't Addison's, he's "Addison's like" and would recommend being treated in that way. He did not think that any fluids would help Max, and, in fact, might not be good for him, since whatever is causing his hypovolemic-like issues, the extra fluid might just kick that into overdrive. Since I am going to (hopefully) be doing Plechner's protocol, we didn't talk about the hormones that much.

He doesn't think that Max is truly hypovolemic (lost blood or fluid), he thinks that the blood is pooling somewhere in his body. He doesn't think it's the enlarged spleen, because it would have to be massively enlarged to have this effect. The large organs capable of doing this, would be the skin, the veins, or the abdominal area/GI system.

He thinks it's the veins, that Max's vascular structure is dilated, from inflammation. His conjecture, is that it's from, guess what? A new twist on an old demon: SIBO.

He said that with SIBO, two things happen. Their body will start reacting to it, much like an allergen, and also that it doesn't stay in the gut. It will travel through the bloodstream, and it doesn't have to be alive to cause this kind of damage, it can be remnants of killed stuff, or by-products. He believes that it's in his bloodstream and that his body is reacting to that. He also said that they are finding some nasty types of e.coli in some SIBO cases. He likes to start with Tylan, 3 times a day. If that doesn't work, sometimes they even have to use Baytril.

He did want me to run a folate/b-12 test, just to see what it shows. He also recommended weekly B-12 injections if it shows low B-12, give the first injection the day of the test, and then see what the results say. 1,000 mcg for a dog Max's size. We didn't run the test on Max because it requires a fast. An EPI test would be good, just to know, but since I give him enzymes, not very valid.

I should note, the blood abnormalities started to show up a bit after I stopped the tylan, used to help with the fistula.

We talked about a biopsy of the digestive tract, how it would probably show the same type of inflammation that every other part of his body has shown, that lymphocytic stuff...same thing he lost his dew claw to.

The noisy breathing, in the esophagus, he thinks is from esophagitis, an irritated esophagus from the GI issues. I think it's possible that the doxy is contributing to this (can you say rock and a hard place?)

The last thing, he just had a feeling, was pulmonary fibrosis. He said that the xrays don't support this, but many of the pulmonary fibrosis cases don't show up on xrays, the only way to diagnose is with a lung biopsy. He noted, if this were the case, it could progress very slowly, or very rapidly, and we both knew what he was trying to say.

***********

So, my hope is, treat for the hormonal stuff (hope the vet will do this crossedfingers ), check and treat for SIBO, and look to alternative ways to support the lungs (more googling!).
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? etc? - 08/03/11 02:00 AM

Wow, that made my head spin! confused2

Sounds like you're getting a lot of good help with Max's issues and with coming up with a plan to treat them. How wild that the SIBO can cause those sorts of issues.

I really hope Max does well on this new treatment plan.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? etc? - 08/03/11 02:35 AM

Thanks Ruth....that kinda blew me away about the SIBO too - figured folks here would want to know that!
Posted by: bianca

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? etc? - 08/03/11 04:47 AM

Lisa I am so happy to hear that all the pieces are starting to come together to figure out the puzzle that is Max.

So when do you start the different treatments?

Sending you restful thoughts and a gentle hugging for Max. He is so very lucky to have you.
Posted by: LJsMom

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? etc? - 08/03/11 07:05 AM

Wow, I never would have guessed that SIBO could do so much harm!
Posted by: arycrest

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? ticks? - 08/03/11 09:08 AM

Thrilling news!!! Give Max a huge hug from me!!!
Posted by: DancingCavy

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? ticks? - 08/03/11 09:26 AM

I, too, wouldn't think SIBO would be capable of so much damage. But, I suppose coupled with other immune issues, could do just about anything. It sounds like you've got a good handle on what might be going on and some good treatment options. I do hope everything works out and Max is on the rebound soon. I can't imagine how worried you've been.
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? ticks? - 08/03/11 09:41 AM

Lisa,

This is really progress: knowledge is power.

If Max has some general impairment in mucosal immunity affecting maybe lung, maybe gut, do you think it would help at all to use a nebulizer for him? I'm just trying to think about what might make it easier to breathe and maybe that could restore some moisture to his lungs. You know, I just wish I could help somehow.

Well more positive thoughts can't hurt,

many best wishes to you both,
Mary Jane
Posted by: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? ticks? - 08/03/11 12:08 PM

Lisa,

WOW that is a lot to digest. The only thing I can suggest is ask your Vet if Aminophylline might help Max or if could be used with all the other Medications he might go one, may react to corticosteroids . My horse Pixie had scar tissue in her lungs from two bouts of pneumonia before the age of 4. She wheezed and coughed and had a high respiratory rate and burned a lot of energy just breathing. My Vet suggested we give this a try, it worked wonders for her. I did read that it has mixed results with horses,

http://www.petcarerx.com/pcrx/HealthGuide/Medications/Medication.aspx?mid=10159

http://www.petplace.com/drug-library/aminophylline/page1.aspx
Posted by: JeanKBBMMMAAN

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? ticks? - 08/03/11 01:00 PM

WOWZA. That is some interesting stuff. I am going to have to read this a few times for it to sink in.

Please show this to...I cannot remember who it was...who was not treating the SIBO (now aka Abx Responsive Diarrhea) with antibiotics? Wasn't there someone?
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? ticks? - 08/03/11 01:02 PM

Thanks everyone, great suggestions for the lungs, I will be certain to be googling and asking my vet about them.

I feel so terrible, that at the same time I've been trying over and over again to cut back on abx, that my boy has been developing this state of walking mild septic shock I guess.


I took him off tylan back then because I felt that he was he wasn't doing well, when , in reality, he might have needed stronger abx. He keeps needing more and stronger abx, so I really hope that my vet will follow through on this plechner protocol, it's the only possible thing I see to break the cycle.

If it's not SIBO, it might be the stupid tick stuff, though I will always suspect the fact that stb-ex used the toilet for his water bowl before we met. Idiot, who does that anyway, and in a breed so susceptible to bacteria. I know that was a long time ago, but he's been sick a very very long time, it just progresses.

He has a harder time breathing after meals. I thought it was something I've been giving, I've been trying all sorts of different combinations - I bet it's an inflamed gut.

And none of that touches the possible lung stuff. When he was younger, he would have problems breathing, and laying down and me stretching out his ribcage would help. That makes me think of the lung stuff a bit, everything very tight

Today is the chiro, for both of us.

Tomorrow I find out what the acu vet has to say about starting the protocol.

If I start SIBO treatment the day before the test, do you think it makes a difference?
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? ticks? - 08/03/11 01:05 PM

Jean, yes, I remember. Haven't had coffee yet, I'll think of the name.
Posted by: JeanKBBMMMAAN

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? ticks? - 08/03/11 01:06 PM

Call and ask someone - or email - I think, to be safe.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? ticks? - 08/03/11 01:20 PM

Yeah. I have to imagine, if he's this bad (who else has an undersized heart from sibo? No, only my dog!), it can't make much difference, but I should find someone to ask.


The internal medicine guy did say that they see a lot of strange things from this type of disseminated SIBO, if that's what it is. It seems to manifest differently in different individuals. I wanted him to tell me more, but certainly that would have been at the expense of talking about Max.

I'm such a geek, I think I could have found a zillion questions for him...
Posted by: arycrest

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? ticks? - 08/03/11 02:34 PM

I don't know if this will help Max or not, but when Kelly was treated for SIBO he took a 30 day course of tetracycline and ate a low-residue food for maybe six months or so. My vet then had me attempt to wean him back to a regular diet, however, the SIBO flared up again in short order (it was bad enough he had to go to the ER).

He was given another 30 day course of tetracycline and put back on his low-residue diet for 18 months. He was weaned off the LR diet back onto a regular diet sucessfully the second time and never had another problem until the day he died.

While he did take antibiotics, he was only on them for a total of about 60 days during a 24 month (more or les) time span.
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? ticks? - 08/03/11 06:14 PM

Lisa and Max - hugging What a lot to absorb. It is good to get some (probable) answers, but it sounds like a long road ahead.

Max is fortunate to have you as his champion!
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/03/11 07:43 PM

Gayle, he's been on doxycycline, a tetracycline, since 2009, which did help with his SIBO symptoms when I first started with it. This was so not on my radar. Of course, if it's not SIBO, it's some other infection.....there must be a reason why he needed three different abx at the time to heal his fistula.

Bonnie, sigh, yes, a long road. We have a shot at this if all of us are on the same page. I'm worried, and tired, but at least I have a direction. I hope that tomorrow's appointment with the acu vet to talk about the Plechner protocol goes well. I just ordered his new book from Amazon.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/04/11 07:04 PM

Had an appointment with the acu vet today. We kinda have a plan.

We sent off a fecal sample to be checked at the lab, as well as blood for folate/B-12.

The acu vet is not comfortable doing Plechner's protocol. Initially, it requires several injections of high dose steroids, and she's just not sure what Max will do under those circumstances. Max's dependency on several antiobiotics, and being so weak now, it's really unpredictable, and with an injection, you just can't take that back.

It is clear that there is an endocrine dysfunction and that he will need ongoing steroid treatment to replace the low cortisol. He will be treated like an Addison's dog, now two tests showing that he isn't making enough cortisol, and all his immune indicators are low. Everyone keeps telling me that he needs higher doses of steroids, but Addison's is a low dose, so I guess I don't understand that....

We are going to have to play a balancing act between the antibiotics and the steroids. We want to get him better, so we can do a trial without the doxycycline, in case he is reacting to that. It's possible, that the doxy was doing the job that the pred is now doing, and tetracycline allergy is not unheard of. I don't completely buy that the doxy is acting only as an anti-inflammatory and not also as an antibiotic, but, I'm willing to consider the possibility.

She didn't completely discount the Plechner theory, but just that we won't have any tools to treat Max with if he crashes, since he's not really responding well to anything at all. I think she is thinking of a more stepped and moderate approach to the protocol. I don't know if that will be effective though...like abx, sometimes a low dose just doesn't do the trick. Most important to her though, is that Max doesn't crash as we step up the dose.

I am going to start vitamin C infusions next week, to see if he will respond to that. Called in the homeopathic vet too - always do that when my back is against the wall.

So we aren't out of options yet, we'll keep plugging away. I really really miss walking my dog....
Posted by: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/04/11 08:17 PM

I can understand the concern about Max crashing, is the ACU Vet willing to talk to Dr. Plechner about that concern? Maybe he has seen more cases and has a better handle on how dogs react to the protocol.
Posted by: LJsMom

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/04/11 10:59 PM

What does the cardio vet think about the steroids?
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/04/11 11:45 PM

Val, I think the Acu vet has her own plan, but I also think it's influenced by Plechner's ideas. This is the first time any vet has taken his antibiotic dependence issue really seriously, and that alone brings me some relief and hope that we might be able to manuever through this. I will ask her though if she has talked with him. I do have his book on order for reference.

Joanne, I was worried about that too. With it working overtime now, I don't know how much more it can handle. I didn't ask the cardio, but she did say that it was already crunching down as hard as it can to keep up frown
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/05/11 05:38 AM

Pred, are they supposed to lose weight when on it?
Posted by: bianca

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/05/11 06:49 AM

Lisa I so wish I could offer some advice.

Would it be possibe to try and arrange a conference call between yourself and all Max's vet's?

I am keeping you both firmly in my thoughts and prayers hugging
Posted by: Woodreb

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/05/11 09:16 AM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
Pred, are they supposed to lose weight when on it?


Rica was on pred for a long time (low dose, once or twice a week) after she was diagnosed with HD. I never had trouble keeping weight on her in all that time. So I don't think the pred acts to promote weight loss. It does tend to stimulate the appetite. Rica was a chow hound as a result and I had to reort to some innovative means tokeep her out of the dog food. It was amazing how she figured out how to get in to closed and tightly covered cans.
Posted by: DancingCavy

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/05/11 09:50 AM

I know in humans, pred tends to cause weight gain, not loss.
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/05/11 12:34 PM

Lisa,

I really admire you for thinking creatively and critically about Max's care but this is awfully challenging.

As you say, including the hormonal issues on top of everything else is a step forward.

many best wishes,
Mary Jane
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/05/11 02:35 PM

That's what I thought about the pred. I figure it's either weight loss from the loss of muscle, which I can already feel, or weight loss because the cortisol is helping his thyroid work better, as he has had hypothyroidism that is unresponsive to medication.

Thank you MJ, very frustrated here. As I take stock of "what I did on my summer vacation", I realize that, while I've learned a lot, not one realistic step forward on the breathing issue though. I guess stuff that has to be gone through, but I sure would like for him to feel better.

I guess, avoiding an Addison's type crash, is one important thing that we have done though.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 08/05/11 03:54 PM

He's losing the hair on his ears....
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 08/05/11 03:58 PM

Max doesn't take pepcid or anything like that, does he? My sister's aussie lost a lot of weight while on pepcid during her anemia deficiency illness.

She found out that was the cause (and we joked we would eat them like m&ms if that would make us lose weight.)

I don't remember you mentioning pepcid, but doesn't hurt to ask.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/05/11 04:01 PM

Originally Posted By: PositiveDog
Max doesn't take pepcid or anything like that, does he? My sister's aussie lost a lot of weight while on pepcid during her anemia deficiency illness.

She found out that was the cause (and we joked we would eat them like m&ms if that would make us lose weight.)

I don't remember you mentioning pepcid, but doesn't hurt to ask.


Oh wow, I've never heard that, it's good to know!

No, he's not on anything like that right now, though I've been thinking maybe zantac might help....not that I want to add another drug.

Thinking a change in abx is needed, and that it's that Staph thing going on with his skin.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/05/11 05:49 PM

Fecal, negative.

folate/b-12, negative.

working on a new theory....
Posted by: LJsMom

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/05/11 10:12 PM

Well crap. I was hoping I could rehome LJ's 6 month supply of enzymes to Max!
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/06/11 03:25 AM

He's still using enzymes though smile

His stools are firming up with the tylan, but he isn't feeling any better, really. He has spurts, where he picks up a toy, but it doesn't last. He hasnkt played in weeks frown

This sounds a lot like Max:
http://www.immunedisease.com/about-pi/types-of-pi/common-variable-immunodeficiency-cvid.html


I don't know how you treat immune deficiency, autoimmune, and low cortisol requiring steroids, all at the same time. Lots of abx needed as a start. I am excited about Monday, his first vit C infusion. He will only get the dose for a 20 lb dog to start with, and gradual increases from there. The vet said we should know after the first two treatments if this is really going to help him.
Posted by: bianca

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/06/11 06:27 AM

Lisa that link mentions Gammagard liquid, is that something that could be tried for Max? Or what about a blood transfusion? I don't know what I am talking about but just a crazy thought.

When will he have his second vitamin c infusion?

Sending all my prayers and healing thoughts to your dear boy hugging
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/06/11 12:36 PM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa


I don't know how you treat immune deficiency, autoimmune, and low cortisol requiring steroids, all at the same time.


Well if you don't know, nobody does. I will say that correcting his hormonal deficiency with low dose steroids in the context of a (selective?) immune deficiency can potentially normalize Max's endocrine system and potentially hit some auto-immune component. Like everything else, God is in the details. The whole balancing act seems really delicate.

If anybody can get the right balance Lisa and her physician team can.

all the best,
Mary Jane
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/06/11 05:34 PM

Bianca, crazy ideas, at this point, seem to better than no ideas...

No one seems to think that there is anything that will help with his blood volume, and it's not clear if it's deficient or what.

Mary Jane, thank you. I just feel beaten down right now.

The Tylan is a no go, he is progressively worse on it, in terms of being able to breath, now the days are as bad as the nights frown . It took some hunting to find, but it does seem to have an affect on that pituitary and thyroid axis. I took him off it long ago, thinking it was a problem, and it appears to be. Stools are better, but not much help if he can't breath I guess.

Vit C infusion, once a week for 4 weeks if they respond, and then every other week for a bit, and then monthly for maintenance. I used to sit with Dad during his chemo infusions, so this is kinda weird.

MJ, Plechner's deal is that you fix the cortisol with his protocol, and those immune functions will come up, guess similar to what you are saying. But we aren't doing that, so I don't know what we are doing.
Posted by: unloader

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/06/11 06:50 PM

I haven't read the entire thread, but have you ruled out Distemper? Or maybe an IgA issue?

More random thoughts: What about Toxoplasmosis?

I remember reading something about him having a weak rear, I think....so maybe Neosporosis?

Maybe Rocky Mountain spotted fever?
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/06/11 07:02 PM

It's a long thread frown

Interesting thought on the Distemper. I don't get a sense that that's involved.

You nailed it on the IgA though, he's IgA, IgG, and IgM deficient, with corresponding low cortisol. Looks like his thyroid and parathyroid are starting to fall too, so this has got to be pituitary or hypothalamus induced, and it's all very confusing.


There is some degree of both infection and autoimmunity.

I think those two paragraphs are a good summary smile

I'm looking into vasoconstrictors now, in case the blood vessel dilation (if that is what is happening), can be managed by forcing them to contract. Histamine is a big dilator of blood vessels...don't know if that's a good avenue to pursue. If so, vit C can only help.
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/06/11 10:49 PM

So I had to google IgA and found this (it is probably things you already know):

One of the newer immunosuppressive agents called mycophenolate mofetil (MMF) is also being tested in treating IgA nephropathy.

It was on this site about people:

http://kidney.niddk.nih.gov/kudiseases/pubs/iganephropathy/

And this sounds interesting, but I can't find a date:

We are looking for purebred German Shepherd Dogs at least 12 months of age from multi-generational family groups. If you are interested in obtaining further information or participating in our study, please contact Dr. Niels Grützner (ngruetzner@cvm.tamu.edu).

http://www.cvm.tamu.edu/gilab/research/iga%20information.shtml
Posted by: bianca

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/07/11 08:18 AM

I have been thinking all day about Max and you mentioned that his breathing during the day became as bad as at night (on the tylan?). So before that, was he getting something during the day that he wasn't at night. Or something that was/is only relatively short acting? It seems odd why his breathing would be worse at night otherwise, if that makes any sense.
Posted by: JeanKBBMMMAAN

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/07/11 09:42 AM

I'm lost - what is stopping treatment from moving forward? Or is there no consensus on treatment?

What about the SIBO?
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/07/11 10:27 AM

Jean, I am lost too...

The tech told me negative for SIBO, but I was treating for it anyway with Tylan. He's become A LOT worse with that treatment.

It could be a drug reaction - this worsening was one reason I pulled it out of his fistula protocol, but I guess he needed it to keep *something* in check. So, he has an advanced case of Leaky Gut Syndrome.

Only it's real advanced I think, compounded by so many other things. Putting together what Plechner and the internal medicine guy said, it sounds like this process, in slow motion:
http://www2.hawaii.edu/~johnb/micro/m130/readings/SepticShock.htm

And I don't know how to address that because nothing I do is working, same with anyone else. I have high hopes for the vit C, I think if it doesn't kill him, it will be REALLY good for him.

I am running out of pred (never thought I would say that!) and called to see if I could get some prednisolone, but she didn't return my call. I have to make sure I have enough on hand if he goes into an Addison's like crisis frown so I am trying to figure out who to change too, I don't know if I can go back to internal guy, but I think I will call and find out.


Bonnie, that study looks interesting - same guy that did the study when Max was young, I should follow up with him, and I need a doc to discuss meds.


Bianca, the nights. I've been thinking about this too! I think it's because he gets his minerals then. His body is working hard to find it's equilibrium, by decreasing calcium and bicarbonate in the body, going very acidic (I think?). That's all I can come up with so far...

Very rough night for both of us last night. He will have to stay home while I go to a dog thing today - very sad!
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/07/11 10:52 AM

Lisa, I have none of the knowledge that you do, but I do have to wonder about the various meds Max is on (or off of.)

Could it be possible that there is a battle going on in him due to interactions of the drugs not only with his illness, but against each other?

I had a friend who's husband was very ill (still is) with a chronic lung problem. He was referred to various doctors with different specialties, and each were treating a part of his symptoms.

He slowly got worse until he was referred to OSU - and they set up a team of doctors who worked together instead of separately. The first thing they did was to take him off of everything, then decide together together on the combination of drugs needed. He will not be cured due to the long time lung damage, but his life is much better now.

I wonder if Max needs that. Instead of you taking that role because you have been forced into it while caring for him, he needs one doctor willing to be the center of all treatment.

And it sounds like so far none have stepped up to do that.

I worry for you wearing yourself out trying to pull it all together. I hope this week will bring you and Max both some relief.

hugging
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/07/11 11:10 AM

Originally Posted By: PositiveDog
Could it be possible that there is a battle going on in him due to interactions of the drugs not only with his illness, but against each other?


Yes, absolutely. But with his immunodeficiency, I'm even more afraid now than ever to stop anything frown

Thank you Bonnie, I am very very tired and frustrated, and afraid. I hope this week we can turn a corner.
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/07/11 11:15 AM

Ack, I have not been keeping up with this thread and I am SO sorry to hear that Max is not getting better! I know how you feel. hugging

I apologize if I missed this but did he have his lungs x-rayed and, if so, what did they find?
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/07/11 01:43 PM

I'm just sitting here reading this with fingers crossed crossedfingers for the vitamin C. Is the first injection Monday?

I really hope that both of you can take a deep breath. It doesn't seem like too much to ask.

more best wishes,
MJ
Posted by: mspiker03

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/07/11 02:43 PM

Sending good thoughts your way. I have been reading, but have been so swamped since DH left that I haven't been able to post much.
Posted by: TMarie

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/08/11 12:11 AM

Keeping good thoughts for you and Max. Hoping you both have a restful evening.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/08/11 01:00 AM

Ruth, no problem, you have had your hands full with Sensitive Boy. Lung xrays showed an undersized heart and changes in the vasculature in the lungs...there is low blood volume being pumped through the heart and the tissues.

Thank you MJ, mspiker03, and Tammy, I've made a few changes, and I'm hoping for the best. Tomorrow is the first vitamin C infusion.
Posted by: Barb E

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/08/11 01:01 AM

hugging and hugging
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/08/11 01:04 AM

Thank you Barb hugging
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/08/11 01:25 AM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
Ruth, no problem, you have had your hands full with Sensitive Boy. Lung xrays showed an undersized heart and changes in the vasculature in the lungs...there is low blood volume being pumped through the heart and the tissues.


frown I am going to read through this whole thread now so so that I stop asking stupid questions. I really wish I could help figure out what's going on with your sweet boy Max but please know that I am sending lots of healing energy his way. hugging
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/08/11 01:43 AM

Thank you Ruth, I appreciate it. We'll take that good energy.

That's a lot of reading, you might want to skim it!

I might have made progress today, but I want to see how tonight goes. Not that things are really better, but I'm hoping that I stopped some of that decline and that he can rest tonight.

I hope so!
Posted by: bianca

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/08/11 02:26 AM

Fingers, toes, paws, arms and legs crossed here that you are onto something Lisa. I pray the Vit C helps at the very least. A hugging for you and one hugging for sweet Max.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/08/11 01:15 PM

Thank you bianca! It was a much easier night, so perhaps a tiny bit encouraged.
leaving for the vit C infusion soon crossedfingers
Posted by: Barb E

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/08/11 01:17 PM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
Thank you bianca! It was a much easier night,

crossedfingers
Don't want to jinx it
Posted by: Woodreb

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/08/11 01:28 PM

crossedfingers for Max and Lisa
Posted by: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/08/11 01:49 PM

Fingers and paws crossed here also.
Posted by: TMarie

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/08/11 01:50 PM

Thinking only positive thoughts for Max and you. Hoping the Vit. C helps some.

{{hugs}}
Posted by: LJsMom

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/08/11 02:07 PM

Thinking about Max!
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/08/11 02:26 PM

Sending lots of good thoughts from here too!
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/08/11 03:27 PM

Thank you, let's hope this magic elixer helps!

Posted by: TMarie

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/08/11 03:35 PM

wub wub hugging hugging

Generating more positive vibes to you handsome boy!
Posted by: LifeAsMe

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/08/11 03:38 PM

Hugs and positive thoughts for you and Max!!
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/08/11 03:43 PM

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX those are speed of light cyber kisses for Max.


MJ
Posted by: JeanKBBMMMAAN

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/08/11 03:43 PM

crossedfingers
Posted by: Barb E

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/08/11 03:44 PM

Originally Posted By: TMarie
wub wub hugging hugging

Generating more positive vibes to you handsome boy!


Me too!!
Posted by: Kris

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/08/11 05:36 PM

Come on elixir - do your magic!! This makes me so sad that he's not feeling well... So hoping this helps, Lisa. And hoping that you can both can get some rest - it's so important to any recovery... hugging
Posted by: DancingCavy

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/08/11 07:12 PM

I sure hope the vitamin C is just what he needed. Or, at the very least, that it's a HUGE step in the right direction. Sending more strength your way.
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/08/11 07:55 PM

Aww, poor Max. He looks so patient in that picture. Did he stay so calm? How long before you would know if it helps?
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/08/11 08:17 PM

Here's what I got today, they say that's the full dose for about a 20 lb dog:


I look kinda calm:


But I was actually very nervous and was panting a lot, kept looking at the treats on the table - they didn't give me enough!




I did start to settle some:


For some reason, the drip didn't drip well on the table, so they moved me:


I got REALLY thirsty and had to drink a bunch of water while they were putting that stuff in me. When we left, I was panting a mile a minute, Mom thought my heart was going to burst.

But I'm resting quietly now, I'm not quite sure how I feel.

Mom says they will know after 2-4 times if it will help me, everyone seems very excited to try this. I didn't think it was so fun, and they didn't give me nearly the number of treats that a dog as handsome and well behaved as I deserves.

But this seems important to Mom that we try this, so I will be a good boy and go along for the ride. The vet today said that I was fiddling around a bit when they were getting ready to place the IV, but when the vet said it was time for business, she said that I was that "German Shepherd serious", got down to business and got it right done!

Thanks for all the loves and support, I feel pretty crummy most of the time, and I really hate worrying Mom the way I do. Mom says that with the drugs, I have lost a lot of muscles in my jaw too. But with all the good thoughts, they will definitely help me get better!
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/08/11 08:19 PM

Max is such an totally beautiful, I mean handsome, dog! wub
Posted by: LJsMom

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/08/11 08:25 PM

He's such a good boy!
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/08/11 08:25 PM

LOL, thanks Bonnie! He wouldn't look at me when I was taking the pictures, only after I snapped the shot!
Posted by: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/08/11 08:33 PM

Lisa, he looked pretty calm in the pictures. Hoping that this helps.
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/08/11 08:48 PM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
But this seems important to Mom that we try this, so I will be a good boy and go along for the ride.


Can Max show any more trust and faith than this? Has anybody earned this trust like Lisa?

All together now: positive thoughts, wishes, ideas, gratitude for this good dog.
Posted by: LukesMom

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/08/11 08:57 PM

Good luck with the treatment Max. A handsome boy like you should not feel so crummy.
Posted by: Woodreb

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/08/11 09:45 PM

Max, we hope you feel better soon.

Caleb & Aodhán
Posted by: bianca

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/08/11 10:46 PM

You are such a good brave boy Max wub
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/08/11 11:04 PM

What a good boy, Max. I really hope this works for you!
Posted by: JeanKBBMMMAAN

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/08/11 11:09 PM

Good boy Max - may the force be with you.

(he is soooo handsome and that's saying something because I am a black dog kind of girl)
Posted by: bianca

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/08/11 11:25 PM

Lisa, last night I was looking into the preserving agents of my dads eye medications (timolol, combigan and alphagan) because he is having side effects.

Anywhoo, the various eye drops that Max has, are any of those and their additives on his allergic list? Are any of them beta-blockers?

I'm trying to re-find it but I thought I read something about adrenal glands (it was late). I will try and look for it. But was wondering and after reading Skyes thread it got me thinking about Max.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/08/11 11:45 PM

Originally Posted By: JeanKBBMMMAAN
(he is soooo handsome and that's saying something because I am a black dog kind of girl)


We thank you so much for that!!

Max thanks everyone for the great support, and compliments smile
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/08/11 11:48 PM

Originally Posted By: bianca
Lisa, last night I was looking into the preserving agents of my dads eye medications (timolol, combigan and alphagan) because he is having side effects.

Anywhoo, the various eye drops that Max has, are any of those and their additives on his allergic list? Are any of them beta-blockers?

I'm trying to re-find it but I thought I read something about adrenal glands (it was late). I will try and look for it. But was wondering and after reading Skyes thread it got me thinking about Max.


You know, he had quite a few issues with two of his eye meds. I was avoiding the pred drops because he used to react to those, but now it seems like pred is the right drug for him.

I will have to look at the other ingredients, but I think we have the right eye meds now, but I definitely will double check the bottle.

I think his adrenals have been messed up since he was young - and I have to wonder if there was a head/neck injury in there as a cause somewhere. A chiropractic adjustment to his atlas, right under his skull, used to stop his panting episodes temporarily. Weird, huh?
Posted by: bianca

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/08/11 11:57 PM

Beta-blockers (In eye meds)

5.6 Potentiation of Muscle Weakness
Beta-adrenergic blockade has been reported to potentiate muscle weakness consistent with certain myasthenic
symptoms (e.g., diplopia, ptosis, and generalized weakness). Timolol has been reported rarely to increase
muscle weakness in some patients with myasthenia gravis or myasthenic symptoms.

http://www.allergan.com/assets/pdf/combigan_pi.pdf

Probably leading up the garden path but thought I would mention it. I just skimmed the pages I found and I think I was wrong re: adrenals, seems to mention hyperthroid not adrenal. Sorry.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/09/11 01:40 AM

All garden paths are welcome wink

Interesting about the myasthenia link. Doxy can make this worse, which makes me afraid that doxy could be implicated in this, but really really bad things happen when he's not on doxycycline.

Max does get the droopy eyelid sometimes (ptosis)...I will definitely check on the eye drops.
Posted by: arycrest

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/09/11 09:00 AM

Sending lots of love to Max!!! wub
Posted by: Qyn

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/09/11 09:10 AM

What a good boy he is - he looks quite the movie star on that table. Best wishes that this helps him stabilise. hugging
Posted by: DancingCavy

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/09/11 09:28 AM

I love the pictures of him getting the infusion. He looks so stoic. smile
Posted by: Natalie559

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/09/11 10:31 AM

Lisa, I thought of something which probably means nothing, but you and Bianca spoke of eye meds, droopy eyelids and you said something about the dilation of blood vessels- made me think of horners syndrome- which is a disorder of the sympathetic nervous system and the parasympathetic system

http://ezinearticles.com/?Horners-Syndrome-in-Dogs&id=3984637

I hope Max improves soon!
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/09/11 02:02 PM

Just checking in with the hope that Max and Lisa got some rest.

MJ
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/09/11 02:41 PM

Max was doing so well yesterday, but a bit of a downturn during the night. I think it might be the pred - I didn't give the dose the night before, trying to wean him down to morning only.


Natalie, thanks for that. I have been wracking my brain why scullcap is such a magical herb for him, and it must be that nervous system component that is contributing to his breathing, similar to what that link is suggesting.

I did a further search on Horner's, since this really I think is similar after reading that, and I fear this is more sinister than it might even appear. The most obvious thought is that infection has spread to his nervous system frown , which is what I believe happened to Indy. Or it could be something in his spine, and I would predict base of skull or that whole neck, , whithers, shoulder area (thoracic outlet?). I have had my back stuck in a certain way that gave me panic attacks - weird how a quick adjustment made that go away. Long ago, an adjustment did work on Max, but I guess things have advanced.

Will have to think about this, not too many options when it's in the nervous system. Hopefully the homeopathic vet will help with that.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/09/11 09:59 PM

Been busy today and it's hot!

Seems the most of the human pharmacies have prednisolone on backorder??? Anyway, had to pick up pred and a script for prednisolone.

Picked up folate/B-12 results. Both normal, folate mid-range, B-1e low normal in the bottom 1/4 percentile. So I'll add more of his liquid B-12, hoping that he's absorbing some. Rules out SIBO, but not other systemic infections (still thinking tick issues here, and that really could explain about all of this, in addition to the standard GSD immune system).

Picked up the report from the internal medicine guy. Rule outs, according to him, are:
SIBO,
Inflammatory enteropathy or lymphoma,
Pulmonary fibrosis,
Pulmonary hypertension, and
Chronic bronchitis.

I would think that the ultrasound would rule out GI lymphoma, since, if it's causing these symptoms, they should be able to see something? I will have to ask that.

Sibo, technically ruled out, but I don't doubt there are "things" he is carrying that are bad, thus the response to abx.

I emailed the cardiologist earlier and she ruled out the pulmonary hypertension.

Not much I would (or could) do differently, but I will have to look at the bronchitis issue. I want to explore that nervous system thing too. I have one other idea, but have to look at finances - I've already spent the state tax refund and my credit card refund points wink .

There is still time for some miracles here...I am still hopeful about the vit C infusions and the homeopathic vet will have his workup soon.
Posted by: TMarie

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/09/11 10:23 PM

I'm hoping for some miracles too!

Hang in there Lisa and Max. hugging
Posted by: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/09/11 10:41 PM

Lisa I am hoping you can find some combination that helps Max.

grouphug
Posted by: bianca

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/10/11 07:09 AM

Praying for miracles hugging
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/10/11 12:59 PM

Thanks smile

I really miss walking. He does too, his pasterns are getting really weak, particularly on one side. I have to think that's from some sort of atrophy. His wrists and ankles have always been a weak spot with him. He can't have any of the chicken collagen stuff, and is on the joint stuff, so I'm guessing it's just lack of exercise.
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/10/11 01:06 PM

Sending healing thoughts for Max and hoping for some results from the C!

I use Amino B-Plex when Cleo is really weak. Have you ever tried that?
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/10/11 01:38 PM

No, it looks very interesting:
http://www.naturaleyecare.com/store/detail.aspx?ID=2017

Does it make a noticeable difference?
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/10/11 02:10 PM

For her, yes. It is an appetite stimulant and the Bs seem to give her a little boost.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/10/11 02:35 PM

Thanks...it's not the same, but I have some of the components here that I will test.

Still worried about those wrists frown
Posted by: JeanKBBMMMAAN

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/10/11 08:46 PM

They make nice carpal braces - for the future when you get back into walking with him. Mila's eventually going to get some - they could be twins!
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/10/11 10:24 PM

Oh, that's right! Well, one less thing to worry about I guess...I hope that we get to that point!
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/10/11 10:51 PM

Step by step, Mr. Max, step by step.

MJ
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/11/11 02:09 AM

Originally Posted By: Mary Jane
Step by step, Mr. Max, step by step.

MJ


thumbup
Posted by: LJsMom

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/11/11 06:49 AM

Hope handsome boy Max had a good night!
Posted by: bianca

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/11/11 11:00 AM

Thinking of Max and hoping he feels some improvements soon.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/11/11 03:57 PM

So far, he appears to be stable, which is a good thing! As long as he is not active at all (poor boy), he has been okay the last day or so, with only moderate breathing issues.

I have my next steps planned, but I have to take things in 5 day increments, so that I can see what the effects are.

I am not doing well with waiting, I want him better now!
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/11/11 04:22 PM


Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
I want him better now!


Boy, do I know what you mean!

It sounds like you are beginning to slow whatever disease process is there-which would truly be amazing.

It's so hard to be patient.

take care,
MJ
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/11/11 04:23 PM

I hope that I am MJ, it's so elusive.....
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/11/11 04:26 PM

Oh, Jean, I emailed Niels Gruetzner, do you remember him? The researcher at Texas A&M that was studying IgA in GSDs? He wants me to send in a follow-up blood sample. I wish he would have said that *before* I paid for the B-12/folate, but he was out of the country.

He also wants to run the usual TLI and also a SpecCL (pancreas?).

So, if a dog has been given digestive enzymes for awhile, won't that affect the TLI, even with the 12 hour fast?
Posted by: LJsMom

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/11/11 05:16 PM

Will pancreatic enzyme supplementation affect the TLI results?

No. The TLI assays are absolutely species specific. Most pancreatic supplements are made from porcine or bovine pancreatic tissue and thus are not detected by our TLI assays. Furthermore, intact pancreatic enzymes are not absorbed across the intestine to any significant extent and so would not interfere with the TLI assay even if there were some cross-reactivity between different species.

http://vetmed.tamu.edu/gilab/service/faq#enzymesupplementation
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/12/11 04:28 PM

That's really good to know Joanne! I even asked the internal medicine guy and he gave me the wrong answer.....how many times must I re-learn to double check everything?

I have made some changes to his antibiotics and supplements. I found a great site for Addison's in humans where I am learning a lot about timing the pred, and other things.

He is now much more comfortable at rest - movement or excitement still tough. I did take him for a walk around the block last night, and it took about 40-50 minutes for him to get into a calm breathing pattern. I'm just not sure if I should be doing that. He needs that to, uh, fully eliminate, and he's just going a bit stir crazy, and his joints need the movement too. I guess I will just have to see how he is doing that day.
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/12/11 05:20 PM

Lisa;

It sounds like you are moving forward again with Max. I hope the new studies and testing bring you good news.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/13/11 12:23 AM

Thank you Bonnie, I hope so too!
Posted by: Kris

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/13/11 12:54 AM

It does sound like progress! Hope this is an upward trend that continues - you both need that! In my thoughts... hugging
Posted by: bianca

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/13/11 04:51 AM

Would it be practical to maybe take a couple of shorter walks instead?

So happy to hear something is starting to work. hugging hugging one for each of you.
Posted by: JeanKBBMMMAAN

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/13/11 11:05 AM

I am just going to keep posting this. crossedfingers because there is no knock wood thingy.

ETA - I do remember him! He was very nice - I emailed him about Nina's situation and he was helpful and kind. A good person to keep in touch with Lisa!
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/13/11 02:52 PM

Steps forward, steps backward, I lost count which direction we are headed!

Rough night. Gave him the first dose of his homeopathic remedy last night, I don't know if that's related, might be an aggravation, it might be a rough several days if that's what it is.

Short walks now are about 4 or 5 houses down the block and back,,,,,sucks for both of us.

Tuesday is his next vit C infusion....I'll keep messing with things here I guess.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/13/11 03:54 PM

So I looked at my notes, and all this stuff started while he was on tylan and his other abx, so tylan is not the answer.

I'm thinking that his red belly, for which I have tried *everything* to alter, is this blood vessel dilation issue, much like rosacea. So....I think I have some sort of physical measurement with which to mark progress (please, let us have some progress to mark!)

I am going to work flagyl in to the mix somehow, and see what that does. As I mentioned here: http://www.germanshepherdhome.net/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/173068/Flagyl_Dosage.html#Post173068 There are some things that only flagyl does....it's also used for some tick diseases.

I just don't feel like we are doing anything different yet. We have the vit C infusions, which should be supportive, the prednisolone to replace the cortisone, but that's kinda it. So, on to the next part of the experiment I guess.
Posted by: Barb E

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/14/11 12:57 AM

hugging
Posted by: bianca

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/14/11 06:14 AM

I so hope that your various vets can help you Lisa. It just seems terrible that you are basically left to figure this out on your own hugging
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/14/11 04:42 PM

Thank you Barb and bianca hugging

I think I walked off that edge of the cliff when I put together his fistula protocol. Something, I'm pretty sure, that no vet would have put together, because it defies sensibilities. A pet owner can do things that a vet fears repercussions from.

And now we are in a bit of a free fall I guess.

I see in my notes, that I was asking the vets about this breathing issue as far back as 10/2010, the red belly first noticed 3/2010; these are slow progressive processes I guess. There are so many different interpretations....how many on this forum have GSDs that pant heavily at times? That's what the vet was hearing when I talked of this, they weren't hearing the part that this really wasn't normal type panting, and I was unable to adequately describe it. The TCM vets have their own different interpretations. No one believed me, I couldn't express it well, and I had no idea something like this could be happening.

If this is mostly infection induced, and IF we can find the right combination that gets him better, I hope that he can recover with not too much damage. I just don't know if he will recover. For years, I have been arguing he has infection induced inflammation, the vets have all dismissed that and argued it's all autoimmune (clearly not *all* autoimmune!). But it seems it's probably both, mixed with the adrenal insufficiency (low cortisol does a lot of bad things!), I guess I'm lucky that he's still here.

IF ( crossedfingers ) the flagyl works, I think I need a follow-up to the internal medicine guy, because I don't know what to do with the antibiotics as the next step. I think I'm max'ed out (no pun intended!) with my knowledge there. I think I know the next step, but it's scary.

I did find a shorter block to walk around for now, last night wasn't terrible, and today he is resting well, so things could be a lot worse I guess, and I don't quite yet feel like we are at the end of the rope. I am *really* hoping to have some good news at some point to post, with all these well wishes....I guess the good news for now, and it is good, is that he is still here, loves eating, still tries to pick up a ball now and again.
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/16/11 09:00 AM

Lisa,

Like a lot of people, trends mean something to me and Max's trends for the last several days appear to be stable, overall.

It's really instructive to read your thinking here, like your concern about infection-induced inflammation and the vets' concern about autoimmunity. People argue about this kind of thing in human medicine with many chronic illnesses-MS is a clearly an example-while groping for treatment.

I hope round 2 of vitamin C is therapeutic.

many best wishes,
MJ
Posted by: JeanKBBMMMAAN

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/16/11 10:50 AM

You can also read up on the Marshall protocol - kind of scary, don't know if he's a genius or a nut - for humans. smile

One of the IMOM PINS just got diagnosed with atypical Cushing's. Very interesting - I sent her all the links from here and she was so appreciative.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/16/11 04:17 PM

Originally Posted By: Mary Jane
Lisa,

Like a lot of people, trends mean something to me and Max's trends for the last several days appear to be stable, overall.

It's really instructive to read your thinking here, like your concern about infection-induced inflammation and the vets' concern about autoimmunity. People argue about this kind of thing in human medicine with many chronic illnesses-MS is a clearly an example-while groping for treatment.

I hope round 2 of vitamin C is therapeutic.

many best wishes,
MJ


Mary Jane, thank you for the well wishes and the thoughts!

We seem to have a pattern, but I don't know if we are really doing anything to arrest the progress of this disease process. I just don't know...I think I see an increased intolerance to exercise, but it's a bit subjective.

I don't know if I found a new piece of the puzzle, or just a new puzzle, but I've found that some Tramadol at night allows hims to settle and rest. I don't know if this is due to pain relief (which is very likely because of his neck), or if it's blunting some type of adrenaline rush: http://medind.nic.in/ibi/t02/i3/ibit02i3p202.pdf On one of the Addison's forums, there are some that think that the low cortisol might be paired with increased adrenaline, which might contribute to this panicky breathing stuff.

So, the bottom line, I'm still VERY confused crazy

(pics to post in a minute!)
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/16/11 04:36 PM

Originally Posted By: JeanKBBMMMAAN
You can also read up on the Marshall protocol - kind of scary, don't know if he's a genius or a nut - for humans. smile

One of the IMOM PINS just got diagnosed with atypical Cushing's. Very interesting - I sent her all the links from here and she was so appreciative.


Jean, I've heard of the Marshall protocol, but haven't looked at the details....thinking I need to change course a bit here (but not too much!)....

Atypical Cushing's - I tripped over that in my journey here. The Derm here sends bloodwork out to University of Tennessee, I guess they are looking at that a lot, and using flaxseed and melatonin to treat. They might be a resource? That's about all I know, but here are some links, if they are helpful:
A couple articles here: http://www.vet.utk.edu/diagnostic/endocrinology/articles.php
This looks like a commercial site trying to take advantage of the work being done above: http://www.lignans.net/ut-study-canine-adrenal-disorders.html

I asked a question about Max here, I'm just read the response and am still processing it: http://endocrinevet.blogspot.com/2011/04/q-atypical-addisons-disease-in-dogs.html The homeopathic vet thinks that Max should ultimately be able to do with about 2.5mg of pred each day, this guy thinks he doesn't need any, but there is the issue of the low cortisol, and the systemic inflammation that he has.... thinking
Anyway, that blog might be a resource if they have a question!
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/16/11 04:41 PM

hugging I'm glad that he's at least a little more comfortable.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/16/11 04:47 PM

Round 2 of vitamin C infusion!


It was a lot more today, but it took 1/2 the time....Mom finally figured out how to watch the drip and make sure that my arm was positioned right:


I really hate it when she points that flash at me, yikes:


Indy was peeking out and watching us today - you can see her jaw was crooked in the pic when she was a pup, pre-chiropractor. Mom keeps saying she is going to add a last "woof", but I don't think she's been able to face that yet...


It really isn't that bad. My eyes show how much my neck hurts, but the chiro fixed that before we left smile

I do get REALLY thirsty, and have to pee a lot afterwards - Mom is worried I'm going to pee out all the good stuff right away!

But I'd much rather be chillin' at home while she works on the lawn mower!
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/16/11 04:48 PM

Originally Posted By: BowWowMeow
hugging I'm glad that he's at least a little more comfortable.


Thanks Ruth! Getting him a good night's sleep has to be a lot better for him too.
Posted by: LJsMom

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/16/11 07:00 PM

The adjustment must have helped Max immensely. He looks much happier in the last picture!
Posted by: Recon

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/16/11 07:08 PM

Lisa - I've been following Max's progress and although never really can reply with some awesome advice, just wanted you to know that Recon and I are always sending healing thoughts to Max smile

He is so handsome!
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/16/11 07:18 PM

Max, you're a good boy! I hope we see improvements in you soon. Mom takes good care of you, boy.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/16/11 08:08 PM

Thank you Recon, Joanne and Bonnie laugh

It's all helpful!

I think I figured out my next step, which will either be a really good thing, or a disaster.....

I did find a reference to one of the tetracyclines causing a hypersensitivity reaction that mimics septic shock. We've kinda tried just about everything else. Since he's on the pred, hopefully, backing off the doxy, won't flair the fistula, which is why he's on the long term doxy.

I know anytime I've taken doxy, I've felt really really crummy....I can't imagine how crummy it might make a person or dog feel after so long frown

Okay, so, the mad scientist is going to start her next experiment crossedfingers
Posted by: DancingCavy

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/16/11 08:43 PM

Max does look so happy and content in that last photo. Like nothing is wrong at all. wub

It's so frustrating when there are no clear-cut answers. But I know you'll do your best to help Max. I hope his second infusion of vitamin C helps him feel better soon and that you can figure out a plan of action.
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/16/11 09:05 PM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
Okay, so, the mad scientist is going to start her next experiment crossedfingers


I think I see a healthier Max and a shimmering Nobel prize in the distance.

OK, I'm sure if you see a path, it's a good one.

crossedfingers

MJ
Posted by: bianca

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/17/11 05:09 AM

Such a good boy wub And with your Mum and beloved Indy watching over you, you are in great hands dear Max. Keeping fingers and paws crossed here that the Vit C starts to make a big difference. hugging
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/18/11 03:02 PM

How are Max and Lisa today?

MJ
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/19/11 02:21 AM

Thank you for asking MJ, and Max thanks everyone for the great well-wishes smile

Mary Jane, I think you have too much confidence in me! I'm just kinda wandering blindly here!

I was really hoping that I would have good news to post....

I tried a couple of days with no doxy, and it was not good. No improvement and increased panting and distress.

After reading that vet's response on the endocrinology blog (I need to reply to that!), and thinking about what the internal medicine guy said, I think I have come full circle....it's a horse, not a zebra, what Max has always had, some weird infection by a mysterious bug or bugs...what other fistula requires 3 different types of abx at the same time to heal? It could be the same thing that killed Indy too, or similar, I have my suspicions. I am starting some of the tick herbs here for me....

I've been thinking that, if this isn't figured out soon, he won't be here long, as he is able to do less and less over time, and his quality of life is about zero. At training, he now spends more time laying down than doing anything else. I probably shouldn't even have taken him the last couple of weeks, but he gets to do nothing else, not even go for real walks.

So.....I've gone in the opposite direction and doubled his doxy dose, which he has never tolerated well, and changed the other abx, so I have everything covered. The doxy dose is now the aggressive dose recommended on the tick list, but he's always had a reaction to that. I will just have to deal with that reaction as a lesser of all evils with the hope of getting him past this. No sense in doing the same thing that I was doing when this all started, so it's a much more aggressive abx mix. Tylan is still in the mix, but if he can't tolerate it, I have a back up to switch to, if I have to. Flagyl, instead of tylan, was helping, but he gets super wobbly on it and can't stand without slipping.

Bought some super $50 probiotics ( shocked ) to more seriously address the good bacteria issue and leaky gut; I've always had problems finding a good probiotic for him and this one was recommended by someone on the tick list. He's become intolerant of l-glutamine for some reason, so I'll have to find other ways, with his allergies, to address the leaky gut.

I want to also treat for GERD and esophagitis (both common with doxy), but the stuff I gave him this morning (DGL licorice and marshmallow), I just realized are both diuretics, so I have to be pretty careful - those are probably contraindicated for dogs in a hypovolemic type state, even if it's not from dehydration. I really don't want to have to add something like zantac to the mix, but I might have to. He is my drug boy it seems. Funny, Indy was my drug-less girl, it's really hard to switch gears like that, after so many years. But I'd really like Max to be around a lot longer....I have so many plans for us!

I did make us some Throat Coat tea last night, and he lapped it right up - I was happy for that!

I'm not ready to give up on the boy yet. If a monkey can type Shakespeare (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_monkey_theorem ), then I figure that I have to hit upon the right mix at some point laugh
Posted by: bianca

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/19/11 05:53 AM

With the increased dose of doxy, how long before you would expect to notice any change? WIll you continue with the Vit C?

I so wish I had the knowledge to help Lisa, it breaks my heart to read all this but my thoughts are with you and Max. You surely have to be on the right track now...horses, horses, horses....hugging
Posted by: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/19/11 12:00 PM

Lisa I have been following and reading haven't had time to post much.

I have had Lakota on Turmeric for a couple of weeks and yes unfortunately he is back on Ceph again. But I am seeing some good things from the Turmeric, he has really good stools, he is drinking a little more, no ill effects from the Ceph so far.
http://germanshepherdhome.net/forum/ubbt...html#Post151769

Just tossing this out that maybe you want to talk to you herbal vet about.

Hang in there Max. You momma is trying so hard to find the right combination to make you feel better.
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/19/11 12:45 PM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
I'm just kinda wandering blindly here!


I strongly disagree. I think you're using every avenue and insight that you can to care for your boy. But you're only human, so give yourself a break.

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
I figure that I have to hit upon the right mix at some point laugh


That sums it up.

All the best to both of you,
MJ
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/19/11 04:50 PM

Bianca, thank you. Do not feel bad!!! Geez, I've had 4 vets and a cardiologist that Max has seen.....good thing one of them, the internal medicine guy, mentioned the dilation of blood vessels from infection. He was thinking SIBO, but it's some other unkown infection it seems, and of course it goes back to his suspected tick disease. Since both of my dogs have had these bad infections that exhibit differently, it seems to me, it's either ticks or mosquitos.

As long as the vitamin C is not hurting, I will continue it. It should help with any infection, bacteria or viral, or if this has some component of lymphoma.

Thanks Val and Mary Jane...we are doing everything we know how! I will see about the tumeric, but I don't think he did well on it

He is not worse today. He might be better. It could be that some things are better while other things are worse.

I noticed immediately, when I got home last night, that he was more active. BUT, he also had more trouble breathing. I did end up adding some zantac before bed, and also some charcoal. Today he can move a bit more with better breathing, but it's still really difficult, and he still can't move too much.

If this whole thing was about increasing his doxy to the aggressive of dose, me, of all people, I think I'll just shoot myself headbang

If this really is about the increase in doxy, I'm not sure where I go from here, but, I hope, I really really really hope, that's a bridge that I'll get to cross later.

Oh, since he's not Addison's, but has this weird cortisol thing....I'm also trying to address this. He is low IgA, IgM, IgG (Common Variable Immunodeficiency, CVID, doesn't everything have a initials?). If I can't address that, then he will probably need more and more abx, until we can't do anything and that's it. If we get past this now, something needs to change in the way that his body functions.

I may have contributed to his problems with my goofy sleep schedule, so I will continue with the pred in the morning because he is low cortisol, 5 mg for now, with the ultimate goal of 2.5 mg.

However, at night, I will give him some low dose melatonin (gave 1 mg last night), to try to get his own cycle back in gear. I did some reading, and it seems that there is some evidence that melatonin can increase IgA levels. I have to be really careful with him and not stimulate the immune system in the wrong way though.

So, now, I just have to figure out how to remember all of this, and try to fit it all in in the course of a day gsdbeggin
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/19/11 06:09 PM

Originally Posted By: Mary Jane

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
I can't imagine life without a dog here.


That is my feeling, we are back to an intense search among rescues.


Mary Jane,

I wasn't sure where to respond to this, figured that this is as good as place as any.

I just wanted to say that I'm very happy to hear this. You have so much to give, and they have so much to give us wub
Posted by: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/19/11 11:14 PM

Mary Jane, not to hijack Lisa's thread but I am glad you are looking again. You have so much to give...
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/19/11 11:21 PM

Originally Posted By: Wisc.Tiger_Val
Mary Jane, not to hijack Lisa's thread but I am glad you are looking again. You have so much to give...


(Hijack away, nice to have some good news....)
Posted by: Barb E

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/19/11 11:22 PM

Originally Posted By: Wisc.Tiger_Val
Mary Jane, not to hijack Lisa's thread but I am glad you are looking again. You have so much to give...


Ditto!!!!!
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/20/11 02:22 PM

Max is still here smile and doing a bit better smile

I was able to walk about the length of two blocks and back, and while he couldn't breath well at all, it only took 15-20 minutes after we got home for him to settle his breathing, rather than the 40 minutes.

His stomach is having a hard time with the doxy. Not that it's making him ill, but I can feel that it's firm and uncomfortable, so that will be a tricky part in managing here.

I am starting to wean down the prednisolone dose. He's at 5 mg now. I'd like to get him down to 1mg or at most 2.5mg a day, I'm not sure. I sure wish I had a measurement for that. His bony head tells me that the 5 mg is too high.

Funny, somewhere between 2-4 each afternoon, he has a very uncomfortable spell. I will have to tell the homeopathic vet, those things are important. The internal med guy wanted me to give the tylan 3 times a day, so maybe he needs that mid-day dose right now, I dunno about that yet.

I found my old acupressure book that came with the red light acupuncture unit, so I think I will try to find the time to do the "daily tune-up" on him. He's not getting acupuncture at all now from anyone (something had to give...), so this should help. I need to look up the one for humans and do that one for me smile

I don't know if this is the complete answer, or how long this slight improvement will last, but I'll take any encouraging signs here that I can get!
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Max: adrenals, SIBO, TBD, immunodeficiency & more - 08/20/11 03:46 PM

Well, crap....I looked up, and this was spurting from his nose, the pictures are after I got the bleeding stopped:





It was spurting from a pinhole at the tip of his nose, and very difficult to stop. I finally got it stopped. I have an herb here, that was for his fistula, that they used to use on battlefields to stop bleeding. I mixed some with water and put it on the edge of his nose, and gave him the rest internally. It's also used for hemangiosarcoma, I was saving it for an emergency, I only have 8 capsules.

I noticed that it was dripping more blood these past several days after starting the doxy. I have no idea what the mechanism in, but I'm a bit afraid.

One step at a time.
Posted by: unloader

Re: Max: adrenals, SIBO, TBD, immunodeficiency & more - 08/20/11 03:53 PM

Oh no! How awful! I sure hope he will be alright
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: Max: adrenals, SIBO, TBD, immunodeficiency & more - 08/20/11 03:55 PM

Oh, Lisa, that is really scary. Is it possible he is just dehydrated (trying to be an optimist here)?

hugging to you. My biggest fear is mixing all of these meds. One things just seems to lead to another. teary
Posted by: Woodreb

Re: Max: adrenals, SIBO, TBD, immunodeficiency & more - 08/20/11 04:13 PM

hugging Wish I could offer something constructive to help, but we'll send good thoughts for you and Max from CT.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Max: adrenals, SIBO, TBD, immunodeficiency & more - 08/20/11 04:14 PM

Thank you Michael, me too frown

Ruth, I worry too about all the drugs. The bleeding, I think this is just part of the disease process and it's affect on the blood vessels. Makes me wonder if some of the hypovelemia really is from blood loss seeping out of the veins. Weird vascular stuff and weird bleeding is part of some nasty tick diseases, so it may be part of whatever he has going on now.

It's probably true that the pred is keeping his platelets from going low and keeping him from bleeding out somewhere.

I'm just really worried about him, and he keeps jumping up and barking at everything since this happened. I told him I'd kennel him if he didn't settle, so he sulked over and got up on the couch. Hope he doesn't forget, he's going to give me a heart attack.

So glad the carpet is at the end of it's life. Blood spray is a b*tch to clean up - but spraying it with water, and quite a bit coming off.

Woodreb, good thoughts are always welcome and helpful!
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: Max: adrenals, SIBO, TBD, immunodeficiency & more - 08/20/11 04:20 PM

Here are some ideas for natural ways to remove the blood stains. http://stains.getridofthings.com/get-rid-of-blood-stains.htm

Wish I could do something for Max...
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Max: adrenals, SIBO, TBD, immunodeficiency & more - 08/20/11 04:32 PM

Thanks for the link Ruth, I'll hop over there and look, I think I've got about 90% of it, but would sure like to get the rest too!

Just thinking about how glad I am that I was home. My gosh, that was about 30 second worth of blood there. I had to hold his nose toward the sky (very uncomfortable for his neck), with a towel on the tip of his nose, and he kept fighting me. I didn't think to elevate it at first and it wouldn't stop or slow.

Glad I haven't showered yet, I have blood splatter all over my hands and arm and toes frown none on my white shirt? How the heck does that happen rofl


I sure wish you could help too Ruth. I guess, now that I have focus, I will have to pull all my experience in the last 11 yrs on the tick list and also from the forums and ask for inspiration to get us through this. It really is from everyone's experiences that I have got him this far, and everyone will help me, hopefully, get him past the critical corners crossedfingers
Posted by: Barb E

Re: Max: adrenals, SIBO, TBD, immunodeficiency & more - 08/20/11 05:09 PM

Agh crap, I was so excited to read the first post about the walk and recovery then got to the next one.
I'm still zooming good thoughts south and Dante has his paws crossed.

hugging
Posted by: Braverhund

Re: Max: adrenals, SIBO, TBD, immunodeficiency & more - 08/20/11 05:34 PM

Sending good thoughts for Max from Grimmi and me. hugging May those critical corners be easier than you expect. Wishing for smoother sailing for Max!
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Max: adrenals, SIBO, TBD, immunodeficiency & more - 08/20/11 05:37 PM

All that finger and paw crossing has to do some good, thank you Barb and Dante!

Patti, thank you, I hope they are easier too!

I called the vet that originally prescribed that herb and, of course, she is out for two weeks.

I am looking real hard at this herb:
http://www.shopsuigetsu.com/Yunnan_Baiyao_Capsules_p/suimed-yunnanbaiyaocaps.htm

Don't quite understand the "red pill" thing, sounds a bit like The Matrix...
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Max: adrenals, SIBO, TBD, immunodeficiency & more - 08/20/11 06:06 PM

Amazing that you maintain your sense of humor...that's a great coping strategy. Any of all these things hit platelets? Well, even if they do, it may be better to take the treatment and have a nose bleed.

This balancing is so demanding-you've got all the support I can type.

I hope the day gets calmer.

MJ
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: Max: adrenals, SIBO, TBD, immunodeficiency & more - 08/20/11 06:17 PM

That is an herb that he is taking right now?
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Max: adrenals, SIBO, TBD, immunodeficiency & more - 08/20/11 07:12 PM

Took a soak in the tub, and tried to let Calgon take away all my worries sunburn (anyone remember that commercial????)

Originally Posted By: Mary Jane
Any of all these things hit platelets? Well, even if they do, it may be better to take the treatment and have a nose bleed.

Yes, everything seems to effect everything, and I'm thinking that same think about treatment and nosebleed. Part of his historic disease process includes platelet problems. His last bloodwork was good, too good for him in fact, so I don't understand it. This is why I think he probably has to keep some pred in the mix.

Originally Posted By: BowWowMeow
That is an herb that he is taking right now?

That herb I just used to stop the bleeding today.

I miscounted, there are 8 foil wraps, 2 capsules each, so 16 capsules, and the mysterious red pill.

I spent hours last night looking for herbs to help with vascular structure (even looked up a bunch of varicose vein stuff). I wonder if this is the universe's way of sending me a message.....

Since giving the herb, he has only panted open mouthed for a bit when walking upstairs and right after. Not after barking, walking, waiting for b-fast (which turned out to be lunch), walking down, etc. I don't remember this being the case in a long time.

I was hoping to contact that vet about dosing instructions, perhaps I can find something about dogs somewhere.
Posted by: DancingCavy

Re: Max: adrenals, SIBO, TBD, immunodeficiency & more - 08/20/11 07:33 PM

Poor Maxie and poor you, Lisa. I really wish I had answers for you. I can say that 50/50 vinegar/water does a pretty good job of getting blood stains out of carpet. Especially if they haven't set in yet. I quicked Risa's nails a couple times when we live in Montana (in an apartment with light tan carpets) and it cleaned the stain up real fast. Wish I had more input to help you with Max, though. Sending good thoughts and strength westward.
Posted by: TMarie

Re: Max: adrenals, SIBO, TBD, immunodeficiency & more - 08/20/11 07:57 PM

Oh Lisa, I wish I had something to offer but I don't. Just know that we, here in Vegas are always thinking good thoughts and sending the best healing vibes, that will help you find the right answers for Max.
Posted by: SeanRescueMom

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/20/11 08:12 PM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa

I am starting to wean down the prednisolone dose.


Lisa, I'm so sorry to hear about Max's health problems. Prednisolone can have sooooo many side effects especially bruising of the skin. Sending good vibes and special thoughts to both of you with hugs and kisses from Sean. hugging
Posted by: bianca

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/20/11 08:26 PM

Thank goodness you were there hugging

Interesting about the herb, it says to keep away from animals and children yet the reviews are about how it helped dogs!

Wishing you all the strength to keep finding answers for sweet Max hugging
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/20/11 08:30 PM

I'm so glad you were home, Lisa.

Would it help at all to send the pictures to the vet?

I have no words of wisdom - I just want Max to magically be OK and for you to be able to relax and just enjoy him. hugging

And by the way - yes, I certainly remember the "calgon, take me away' commercials.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/20/11 11:21 PM

Yes, I am soooooo glad that I was home when this happened. I found some more blood in a different room - it looks like this was going to happen at some point. I will see the acu vet on Tuesday and show her the pics, but the one that originally gave me the herbs is the one that is partially retired, I will see if I can get a hold of her.

Amazing about the carpet, just soaking with water and blotting has seemed to get it all???? Sure didn't expect that, but it certainly wasn't environmentally friendly - I used a LOT of paper towels! I will remember about the vinegar and water though Jamie.

Tammy, if this herb works, it might be a good thing in the first aid box for Jarie....

SRM, yes, the pred frown , please thank Sean for the good wishes wub

bianca, I didn't catch that about the animals, so contradictory thinking



Originally Posted By: PositiveDog
..... I just want Max to magically be OK and for you to be able to relax and just enjoy him. hugging

Oh, me too! That would be so wonderful.....
Posted by: TMarie

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/20/11 11:26 PM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa


Tammy, if this herb works, it might be a good thing in the first aid box for Jarie....

.


I was going to ask you more about that, but didn't think it would be appropriate on your thread. But definitely keep Jarie in mind for that. It wouldn't hurt for me to have it on hand and try. We've had a few bleeding episodes the past 2 months, minor, but minor is major for her.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/20/11 11:32 PM

Originally Posted By: TMarie
Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
Tammy, if this herb works, it might be a good thing in the first aid box for Jarie....

I was going to ask you more about that, but didn't think it would be appropriate on your thread. But definitely keep Jarie in mind for that. It wouldn't hurt for me to have it on hand and try. We've had a few bleeding episodes the past 2 months, minor, but minor is major for her.


It's more than appropriate here!

I went ahead and ordered some more. It will take me 4 days to go through what I have here, and I just have a real good feeling about this. Because of shipping, it was definitely cost effective to order their bulk package, so I may have an extra pack that I can send you.

For Max, they don't recommend long term use, but I can see pulsing it, if it works. If it doesn't work, I still wanted some on hand. Hopefully I will be able to get better guidance from the TCM vets.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/21/11 05:44 AM

I am going to post this good news while it's still good.

We were able to walk 2 blocks, then around the block, and back. Now, 20 minutes later, he is not panting. That's great! smile

His respiratory rate is still 56 breaths per minute frown , but he's not panting and that's great. (Indy, with heart disease, the most hers was was 18, and usually 14 - the cardio said anything over 40 to get her in asap.) Max used to be 40 too.

On the colon cancer board, I learned that one doctor cured fistulas (in humans) by putting his patients on an ACE inhibitor, like lisinopril, to increase blood to the area. I've asked the vets about this, and they seemed to think I was a bit nuts.

I'm now wondering if the fistula (and the nose), aren't just issues of infection, but occured because the blood flow to those areas were compromised.

For tonight, I am thankful for baby steps. I guess we'll see what tomorrow brings.
Posted by: bianca

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/21/11 06:43 AM

Rest well tonight Max hugging
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/21/11 01:04 PM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
I am going to post this good news while it's still good.
....... I am thankful for baby steps.


Every step and every breath count.

It's wonderful that each of you had a hint of relief.

take care,
MJ
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/21/11 01:23 PM

How is Max doing this morning?
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/21/11 03:26 PM

Max is not worse today, so far.

The weather is cooler, which is nice.


With stuff I've been doing, he feels better and wants to play, gets out of breath and weak, and frustrated and lays down depressed. At least he feels a bit like playing.

During my red light acupuncture protocol (day 2!), I took his blood pressure (wrist monitor), and it was awfully low, at 98. It used to never go below 120, and often would spike to 140-ish. I'm now glad I subjected him to those measurements when I was monitoring Indy. I'm really glad though that I thought of a way to monitor what is going on with his veins, the BP monitor completely slipped my mind in this context.

His nose, I still worry about that a lot, it's raw, sometimes bloody crusty. Part of his nose in the front used to spontaneously bleed - vets kept saying autoimmune, which, clearly is not, as autoimmune does not respond to cipro.

I am hoping for an uneventful day for the boy, with lots of internal healing!
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/22/11 12:20 AM

New Rule: Dog is not allowed outside unsupervised headbang

Luckily, I caught him after only several steps onto the carpet:


And when I followed the blood trail along the kitchen and patio, these are the spots he left where he was laying. There are two blotchy areas, not easy to see with the flash lighting them up:


If his nose is any indication of what is going on in his body, we will be left with few options soon. It's just not fair - I know, it never is.

I don't think I have much of a choice, I'll take him off of all meds for the next couple of days, except low dose pred which can't be stopped at this point. I'll keep the herbal support and supplements. This got worse with the increase in the doxy. I don't know if it's a reaction to the medication directly, or the disease process getting worse before it gets better. I think an argument can be made either way. When he's not bleeding, he feels tons better on the doxy, it's all very confusing.

I have to take my mom to the doctor's tomorrow. I'm very nervous to leave him alone. I might have to crate him, I don't know. He hasn't been crated in so long, I don't want him to feel bad. I'm worried about bleeding everywhere, and I'm worried what shape he will be in when I get home. I will just have to keep the faith....
Posted by: Barb E

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/22/11 12:57 AM

Oh Lisa, I wish I had answers or something I could do for you and Max.
Know that I'm thinking of you
hugging
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/22/11 01:14 AM

Thank you Barb hugging
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/22/11 01:14 AM

hugging to you, Lisa. Again, I just wish we had some really useful information about the interaction between all of these drugs...so frustrating, confusing and worrisome. feelingblue
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/22/11 01:21 AM

You're right Ruth, the side effects are so difficult to deal with, on top of such a difficult disease process.

I have some tick herbs here. I might try that route. He's so intolerant though.

I might try pulsing the antibiotics. It's day 5 off of abx that he crashes, so he will be okay for a few days.

I did make a follow-up appt with the internal med guy for Wed, that was before the nosebleed, which I think was part inside this time.

just feelingblue right about now....
Posted by: bianca

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/22/11 05:51 AM

Oh Lisa I wish there was an easy answer frown

Would it be worth talking to a chemist (pharmacist) armed with a list of all the different meds/herbs etc Max has been taking? Just to see if something jumps out to them?

Instead of crating Max tomorrow, can you block him into the kitchen or bathroom where there is no carpet perhaps?

I am keeping you both firmly in my thoughts hugging hugging hugging
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/22/11 09:37 AM

Lisa,

Please take care of one doctor's appointment at a time. With your deep knowledge of Max, you will leave him at home safely. I guess you'll be away several hours, but no more than that.

Besides, maybe you can brainstorm with your mother.

Drive carefully,
MJ
Posted by: Natalie559

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/22/11 10:03 AM

Wish there was more we could do for you and Max- been thinking about you two!
Posted by: Qyn

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/22/11 10:13 AM

hugging
Posted by: unloader

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/22/11 10:40 AM

Lisa, I am so sorry!
I would also want to confirm with a chemist how all of the drugs, natural and not, interact.

Beyond that, it's a shot in the dark, but have you ruled out resistant bacteria to doxy? It seems that the dixy could just be holding the bacteria at bay, but not really doing anything to fight it. On drug.com, there is a short list of bacteria resistant to doxy.

Escherichia coli
Klebsiella species
Enterobacter aerogenes
Shigella species
Acinetobacter species
Bacteroides species

I wish I could do more to help your boy!
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/22/11 06:28 PM

hugging

Not what I wanted to read about. I think the idea of just blocking off an area sounds good. Are you able to do that?
Posted by: TMarie

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/22/11 07:29 PM

Wanted to stop by and let you know you are both still in our thoughts.

Give Max a kiss on that handsome head of his from me, and here's a hugging to you from me.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/22/11 07:40 PM

I think yesterday the nose opened up because he likes to "nose around" in the dirt out in the yard. I didn't even think about the possibility of him aggravating the nose bleeding at the time frown

I took a chance today and left him out, and no bleeding when I got home (whew! huge relief!). I was gone about 5 hours, and a bit nervous, and always glad when I come home and find him alive and at the door, and even better today with no blood smile

I am pretty confident that this is not a reaction between medications. I believe that it's either his reaction to the particular meds (if that distinction makes sense), or a reaction of the disease process once the meds hit it.

Michael, I think you are probably right. I was looking the other day, and the type of bacteria that is able to create endotoxins, which are so damaging, and are emitted when bacteria are killed, seem to be primarily Gram negative (?), and those aren't covered by doxy. The internal med guy mentioned that "these guys" often get some nasty strains of E. Coli (which makes me think of UConnGsd's Wolfie). I know that his head stuff seems to only respond to things like Cipro or Azithromycin. My hope is that he doesn't need doxy in addition to whatever, he doesn't do so well without doxy, but maybe it's just because we haven't hit the right combination. I will be sure to talk about this list with the internal med guy on Wed!

Originally Posted By: Mary Jane
Besides, maybe you can brainstorm with your mother.


rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl

I wasn't going to comment on this, but I've thought about this several times a day, and it's given me such a chuckle each time....Mom is at that point in her life where she just doesn't want to think much anymore, and my dogs to her are more of annoyance than anything, so I am just enjoying this comment. It would have been nice though!

Tonight is training. Either tonight, or next week is the last week. For him, it's pretty low key, since we ask so little of him. I will take him tonight, let him get some fresh air. Each week I'm nervous for a different reason...I am really really really really really really really really really (yes, really!) hoping that we can turn some corner at some point!
Posted by: bianca

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/22/11 08:31 PM

Roll on Wednesday hugging
Posted by: DancingCavy

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/22/11 08:41 PM

*SUPER HUGS* to you, Lisa. I hope you can find answers for poor Max soon.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/23/11 02:11 AM

Thanks guys.

He had a great time at training tonight. I had to force him to stay within his limitations, which was much better than last week. Funny how that works...

At least he had a good day. Just a hint of blood, he was in a good mood, and now he's crashed wub
Posted by: bianca

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/23/11 05:12 AM

Here's hoping he has another good day tomorrow!

Is this after you pretty much stopped everything apart from the pred?
Posted by: LauraHolder

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/23/11 08:31 AM

hugging I'm thinking of you and Max this morning and hope things get better for both of you real soon.
Posted by: Woodreb

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/23/11 11:35 AM

Hope Max has a good day today. Sending positive thoughts for him from CT.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/23/11 11:41 AM

I guess we'll see what today brings.

Bianca, yes, I think the abx make him feel crappy. BUT, as he struggled to breath last night, it's pretty clear that the abx are his only hope.

I just have to minimize that bleeding and protect his veins somehow. He felt better on the aggressive doxy dose, but that bleeding...other than that one herb, which is on order and I'm almost out of, I'm not sure what else I can do.

Hopefully something will be clear in the next few days. Back on everything right now, I can't let the infection get a stronger hold.
Posted by: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/23/11 12:01 PM

Lisa, I wish I had some great advice. The only advice I have is to really watch the timing of the ABX and when he eats. To keep Lakota's 12 hour ABX schedule I give him pretty good size snack at bed time. I just cheat his breakfast and supper a little so he gets a good cup of food with the ABX at bed time. If I don't do that he doesn't want to eat in the morning.

Is today a Vit C injection day? I forget.
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/23/11 12:18 PM

Lisa,

If it's any help at all, there is a huge cohort of people with deep concern and deep support for you both.

take care,
Mary Jane
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/23/11 12:41 PM

It does help Mary Jane, maybe one of the few things that is keeping me from going absolutely nuts right about now.

I know what protocol I would like to have him on. Unfortunately, I guess it just doesn't work that way.

Val, yes, it's infusion day. Week 3. Hopefully soon we will start seeing some direct benefit. She said often you don't see it until the 2, 3rd, or 4th time. I'm a big believer that it should help something on some level.

The timing of the abx, I'm thinking I need an extra meal of snack in here somewhere to time these better. Good point.
Posted by: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/23/11 06:43 PM

Lisa, it has taken me years to figure out the timing thing. Some times we just can't see past the Schedule. You feed 2 times a day, then try to schedule the meds. Most of the time it doesn't work unless you are just giving one med, with multiple things then it is, doesn't bother the tummy, bothers the crap out of the tummy, needs to be take in between ABX. Oh the fun.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/23/11 10:48 PM

Yes! Val! Fun! (okay, trying to find a bright side to this....)

I just realized that I have some vetricyn here, so I'm trying it on the nose. Certainly can't hurt!!

Max has been low normal thyroid (on .7 mg BID) and not in the therapeutic range. Now that he has some cortisol in his system, we're going to try to see if he can tolerate a bit more and see if the thyroid will now respond. Certainly won't make a huge difference, but every little bit helps.

Tomorrow is the internal medicine guy - I'm going to talk to him about infection, autoimmune disease, and drugs. I have no idea what I will walk away with....




Infusion #3


Has it really been another week? This week I get to wear the royal color purple; too bad it looks blue in the pic!


Hey, is that my water?


Sometimes I just have to pant. Mom worries about my red gums, they are a lot like the problem with my nose. As long as they don't get in the way of me eating, I don't mind so much...


I get really thirsty and drink a lot. I almost emptied that by the time we got home.


Sometimes I really look like I don't feel well frown


But sometimes, I just look like that for the attention. See how handsome I really am laugh


Thanks for looking, see you next week!
Posted by: LJsMom

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/23/11 10:59 PM

Max is so handsome! His coat is gorgeous, shiny and silky.
Posted by: Barb E

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/23/11 11:15 PM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa



wub
Posted by: Braverhund

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/23/11 11:20 PM

He is one very handsome boy!
Posted by: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/23/11 11:42 PM

Lisa Max is such a good boy. Give him a hug from all of us and tell him we are all pulling and willing him to get better.
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/23/11 11:54 PM

Yes - hugs to both of you. Max is so beautiful! I wish he felt as good as he looks. wub
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/24/11 12:02 AM

wub
Posted by: bianca

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/24/11 05:30 AM

Max you are the most handsome boy wub

Keeping all paws here crossed that this infusion really starts to make him feel better and that tomorrow brings new options hugging
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/24/11 08:12 AM

Can I just pet him, please.

so nice,
MJ
Posted by: Qyn

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/24/11 10:21 AM

He is such a beautiful, patient boy, Lisa. wub
Posted by: Woodreb

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/24/11 11:29 AM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
But sometimes, I just look like that for the attention. See how handsome I really am laugh


Thanks for looking, see you next week!


Such a handsome boy - feel better, Max wub
Posted by: Kris

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/24/11 01:58 PM

Awww... wub Such a good boy, such a handsome boy, such a patient boy!! Great job Lisa - you are such a wonderful caretaker. No doubt in my mind that you'll get to the bottom of this.
Posted by: DancingCavy

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/24/11 08:14 PM

*Long distance pets for Mr. Max*
Posted by: bianca

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/24/11 09:32 PM

Have you had your appointment yet? If not wishing you both lots of good luck and some positive way forward.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/24/11 11:48 PM


Thank you everyone, I will be sure to pass along to Max all the well wishes, hugs, and snuggles.

I'm trying to process everything that was said at today's appointment. We talked probably for about an hour....nothing earth shattering or dramatically different, but more of a fine-tuning session.

Two important things. The first, if Max crashes and needs hospitalization for something related to this, I would be comfortable having him in this vet's care, which is HUGE. The other, is that I feel completely validated in what I've been trying to with him.

We will continue "tweaking" the medications and dosages at this point, and I will work with rehabbing the gut, inflammation in the lungs, etc. using other methods (herbs, homeopathy, etc.). Still no clear path, but I feel good that I have someone knowledgeable now to help along the way. We both know that the stakes are kinda high here.

I will take some time to slowly make changes here, one at a time, and then check back with him. I am sure the key to this will be finding the right alternative care that supports all his "stuff". It's still a long, unknown road ahead, but at least I think I have all the players in place.



********For folks that need some nighttime reading to put you asleep wink , here's the long version that wrote up for my notes********

I went into the appointment with the following overview: What do we do with the infection issue, the suppressed immune system issue, the autoimmune issues, and the low cortisol.

I told him about all the trials and reactions to the different antibiotics that he has been on, including the recent nose bleeding incidents (from the sores on the leather of his nose) when the doxy was increased. I also told him about Max’s reaction to the pred/prednisolone – 10 mg per day caused muscle loss, pee’ing, and hair loss on the ears. He has been on 5 mg per day for about a week now (?).

One keynote for the vet, was Max’s response to treatment for the fistula. The standard of care is with cyclosporine, which made Max’s fistula worse. And the fistula required multiple antibiotics. This, combined with him being a German Shepherd, very susceptible to weird gut things and infections, makes him believe that this is probably not primarily autoimmune and that immune-suppressive doses of prednisone etc., would likely be very dangerous for him.

He did say that often, those types of immune suppressive dosages are just a crutch, something to do when the vet can’t think of anything else to do, and, particularly in Max’s case, he said it might flush out exactly what the disease process it, but often when that happens in other dogs, it doesn’t help, because the dogs die since the process can’t then be stopped. (I don’t know if I explained that well.)

While Max is not an Addison’s dog, he does think that Max is a poor responder in terms of cortisol production, so I should treat him like an Addison’s dog. We will work on getting the right long term dose of pred - I’ll try 2.5 mg per day, and see how Max responds to this. If that doesn’t work, then bump up to 7.5 mg, and if that’s too much, then 5 mg per day it is (more at times of stress of course!).

I am to keep him on doxy and cipro.

The cipro, maybe not so well absorbed by dogs as Baytril, but for a large dog, the Baytril is just too cost prohibitive. The cipro is for a pathogenic strain of E. coli that they seem to be finding that can get into the bloodstream and move into the organs. It is also the abx that his nose and his neck glands responds to.

The doxy, because he responds so well to it overall, though we don’t exactly know what it is doing. It’s not a particularly effective abx as an abx, unless there is a rickettsia (tick-like) disease, which cannot be ruled out.

I mentioned that he has lived in Oklahoma and Colorado before coming here. He said that the good thing is that Colorado as a very short list of chronic type diseases that this could be (and seemed to imply that they didn’t fit Max), and the bad news is that Oklahoma has *A LOT* of weird tick-like chronic diseases, and a number of them that are only seen in Oklahoma, so it’s a crap shoot what might be really going on here.

As with our last discussion, we talked a bit about the gut being very important here. And for whatever reason, Max has a disease process of inflammation. No doubt that there is immune dysfunction here, but he is leaning toward infection playing an important role here.

As for the nosebleeds on the higher dosage of doxy. He said that it’s possible that at that dose, it’s exerting more of an anti-inflammatory role than at the lower dose. If so, this could make the nose drip more, and possibly the sores bleed more, because they are less restricted by inflammation and more able to “ooze”. In time, that would get better after initially getting worse. So, the initial dose was 200mg BID (twice a day) with no bleeding, and the aggressive dose was 400 mg BID that prompted the nose bleeding. He said, split the difference and try 300 mg BID. I think I will change the doxy first, and then lower the pred, and see how Max does with that.

Regarding the breathing, I asked if the leading theory is that the blood vessels are dilated by inflammation from infection, and he was more careful with how he answered that. He thinks there is also a component of pneumonatis there, which is basically lung inflammation, probably caused by some sort of hypersensitivity, to something, something either floating through his veins, in the environment, etc. I might look at Boswellia for this, but I have to look closer, to look for interactions, etc. With my luck, he’ll be allergic!

He did think it was important to get Max into the therapeutic range for his thyroid. This certainly isn’t thyroid, but the low thyroid can get in the way of everything else. The tough part is that the thyroid might be low because of the disease process itself, rather than low thyroid causing the disease. But then it’s cyclical, so get the thyroid in the right range to eliminate that variable. Looking at Dodds’ work, it does say that getting the thyroid in the right range is important for platelet production, which has routinely been a difficult area for him.

He did think that if Max cannot tolerate pork in the diet, he should not be given pork based enzymes. In theory, they are supposed to be okay, but he doesn’t think that most products are pure enough to not cause a reaction.

I asked him if he had any nutritional recommendations, and the only thing he could think of was probiotics.

We talked a tiny bit about the vitamin C infusions. We were both a little concerned that Max's veins couldn’t handle the extra workload of the fluids. I asked him if I should stop them, and he wasn’t willing to recommend that. He doesn’t know a lot about this, so just left that up to me. While I do have concerns about the addition of fluids into compromised veins, and I think it does increase his panting, I think it’s a good thing in the long run, so we’ll stick with it.
Posted by: Barb E

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/25/11 12:46 AM

hugging
Posted by: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/25/11 01:00 AM

WOW Lisa that is a lot to digest. How you keep all this straight is a miracle to me. I have enough problems with Lakota and his allergies, pancreatits, Meds off and on. Max is so lucky to have you.
Posted by: bianca

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/25/11 04:38 AM

Originally Posted By: Wisc.Tiger_Val
WOW Lisa that is a lot to digest. How you keep all this straight is a miracle to me. I have enough problems with Lakota and his allergies, pancreatits, Meds off and on. Max is so lucky to have you.


This. Max is so very lucky to have you in his corner. I hope you see some improvement soon with the new(ish) protocol hugging
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/25/11 12:21 PM

Thanks guys, this has been my full time job this summer. I've pretty much been MIA in every other sense of my life these last couple of months. I just wish that time and effort and love were enough!

I might have found something that will help, if the nosebleed last night and this morning are any indication. He's starting to bleed from the inside of the nose, the raw parts, and that bleeds A LOT.

Nothing stays on the nose. I just realized I have some pentatin (sp?) creme here and will try that.
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/25/11 12:21 PM

Lisa,

As you said, it's incredibly important that you and your vet are on the same page, especially as you watch Max's daily progress and adjust the meds/supplements. Your notes from the discussion seem to echo everything that you have been thinking about and acting on for the last several weeks: overall the balancing act between autoimmunity, immune deficiency, and infection; and the extremely delicate hormonal network.

If I read correctly, you are free to check in with the vet in real time and that's amazing.

My real message is the same as everybody else's: I hope your sincere efforts bear fruit for your wonderful dog.

Mary Jane
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/25/11 12:25 PM

Mary Jane,

I honestly don't know how accessible he is in real time, but I think he will be there. I have tested that one out. But yes, very glad for this, and very glad to be on the same page.
Posted by: Diane

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/25/11 02:55 PM

Lisa, what a wonderful job you've done! Max is indeed lucky to have you in his corner and in spite of all his "stuff", he looks absolutely stunning.

This vet seems to be a very good one! He's willing to think outside the box a bit and also appreciates how well you not only know your dog, but also that you have researched the various diseases/treatments and can speak to him more like a collegue than a client. It certainly seems you're on the right track and I add my well wishes for Max along with everyone else here!

Hoping for lots of good news soon,
Diane
Posted by: DancingCavy

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/25/11 07:50 PM

That's certainly a lot going on. But I'm so glad you have a vet in your corner that you feel comfortable working with. Max really has a lot going for him in regards to that!

I can't even imagine the frustration. I have some idea, dealing with Risa's gut issues. I do hope you're able to find the right combination of things for Max soon.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/25/11 08:53 PM

Thanks a bunch smile

I think that I'm understanding the full scope of this, maybe, finally. He has a disease process of systemic inflammation. Inflammation of the veins, of the lungs, and of a bunch of other stuff. I have always known this, but it seems to have escalated to such a systemic degree, that it just blows me away. It is probably somewhat of a minor miracle that we have made it this many years.

Can we stop this process? In years, I have not been able to, but maybe the planets will align just right, I don't know. But maybe, with this new vet, we'll have some luck.
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/25/11 09:07 PM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
maybe the planets will align just right
crossedfingers crossedfingers crossedfingers crossedfingers crossedfingers
Posted by: bianca

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/26/11 01:16 AM

Paws and fingers also crossed here. Max deserves some good fortune hugging
Posted by: bianca

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/26/11 01:55 AM

Oooh just had a random thought re Max's nose bleeds. Can you get some of that silver something or rather that seals the crack or tear? Sorry I know that's not terribly useful but I remember years ago I had a fissure blush and the surgeon had this stick with some silver (oxide????) on the tip of it and it almost cauterizes it.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/26/11 04:44 AM

I googled silver and cauterize, and it looks like silver nitrate is what you were thinking of! Isn't there a YouTube video for everything?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKQwQWhUEjM

In some of the descriptions, it sounds painful though, and I'm not sure I can get into the nose, but I need to think about this.

I was googling a bit, and they say that cayenne peppper(?) will stop the bleeding too.
Posted by: bianca

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/26/11 05:10 AM

That's the stuff! Yeah didn't think it through very well, it did hurt but very briefly frown
Posted by: Qyn

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/26/11 08:42 AM

I have heard of nosebleeds being stopped by cauterisation but I don't know what method was used.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/26/11 09:07 PM

Originally Posted By: bianca
That's the stuff! Yeah didn't think it through very well, it did hurt but very briefly frown


I'm keeping this in mind...I'm guessing I can get this stuff online. Thanks Qyn, I did find references to cauterization online. I'm just kinda afraid to try it, so I have to work up my courage, or desperation?

He had another bleed this morning, my fault, I was following him outside, and got distracted, and he was busy nosing in the dirt. I went out and there was just blood all over the grass. I yelled at him to stop he had his nose in the ground), a cat that was hiding in the yard went running, he went running after it, blood spraying from his nose. Blood over my shed, the side of the house, me, him, it was a mess. Kinda funny that it was just a disaster, lol. Gotta laugh or gotta cry, or maybe both rofl

I've been carrying extra paper towels with me everywhere I go, so I had one, and thank goodness it was outside. By the time I got it stopped, the towel was just dripping blood. If he doesn't dig outside, or bit at something on him really hard (you know how they can nibble or bite an itch and dig their nose in it), then the only time it bleeds seems related to the doxy. I am going to try heal the nose more before I go back to the higher doxy dose. I do have to increase it only when I know that I will be around.

I do have some cayenne pepper that I put on after.

I'm thinking that this lack of circulation is why the nose hasn't healed, and why the fistula may have developed.

Posted by: Barb E

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/28/11 12:54 AM

Hoping today was a good day
smile
Posted by: bianca

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/28/11 04:42 AM

Lisa did the cayenne pepper stop the bleed?

I know you are trying to sort out Max's supplements and medicines but is there something (herbal) that increases circulation?
Posted by: bianca

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/29/11 10:44 AM

Hoping Max is improving hugging
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/29/11 12:12 PM

Thank you Barb and bianca for checking up on us!

It's such a roller coaster. I'm having to bring him into work today to keep an eye on him, not ideal, and I can't get away with it for too long. I'll update later, hope everyone has a good Monday.
Posted by: LJsMom

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/29/11 01:39 PM

It may not be an ideal situation, but I bet Max is going to be very happy today!
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/29/11 01:44 PM

Sending good thoughts to you and to Max!
Posted by: bianca

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/30/11 07:09 AM

Hoping Max had a good day at work today!
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/30/11 11:41 AM

Max actually had a very good day at work yesterday smile Today is vitamin C day and chiro, so he will be happy.

I was really surprised at how well he did in terms of stamina, and maintaining his breath. I know that some of that was excitement at being out, but it was nice to see, and made me almost believe that he was well smile For the most part, everyone loves seeing a dog around, and being a shepherd always brings extra oohs and aahs wub

A busy time of year for me, so I haven't been able to update, but also, I've been busy cleaning up frown There have been 3 major bleeds from that darn sore on his nose. Turns out that some days, even when he bumps it eating, it will cause a bleed. I discovered this when he was walking around the kitchen island, spurting blood from his nose, and then I went to look at his bowl, which was full of blood. Picture is here, for those that want to look, it's icky if you think abou it: http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f179/other95/medical/Noseblood20118-28103Medium.jpg

Last night after he started bleeding immediately after starting to eat (another mess, sigh), I figured that I will have to spoon feed him for awhile.

I found a few other things here to try to help him heal. If those don't seem to be helping, then I will look into the silver nitrate cauterizing thing - either by me or see if the vet can do it.

I'm almost thinking that he seems a bit better, but I don't know if I'm fooling myself, in the grand scheme of things. I guess I'm just pleased at how well he did yesterday. I hope that we don't get hit with a bunch of 100 degree weather in Sept....it would be so nice if it cooled...

I've been looking at the E. Coli information, and it's really disturbing. Those people that are germophobes (germaphobes?) that walk around afraid of all the bugs out there? I GET IT!!!


Some rambling thoughts about infection....

I think there is a description go what is going on with Max on this page: http://www.vetinfo.com/dbacterial.html , the answer to "E. Coli and the death of a pet" sounds like what the internal medicine guy was saying. Reading about how critical the digestion part of this, has me even more worried.

Here's sorta the idea the internal medicine guy was thinking of in terms of the inflammation in the lungs: http://vdi.sagepub.com/content/22/1/136.full The vet has mentioned the last couple of times about biopsying the lung. Not that he would do this to Max at this point, it's too dangerous, and it wouldn't change anything we are doing.

No UTI's here, but this article has be worried about whether it's zoonotic: http://m.cid.oxfordjournals.org/content/43/10/e101.full , and this conclusion in particluar: Conclusions. E. coli clones, including ExPEC, can be extensively shared among human and animal household members in the absence of sexual contact and in patterns suggesting host-to-host transmission.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/30/11 11:44 AM

Originally Posted By: bianca
Lisa did the cayenne pepper stop the bleed?

I know you are trying to sort out Max's supplements and medicines but is there something (herbal) that increases circulation?


I think that the cayenne may help the smaller oozy bleed, but the gush, no, that didn't work. Darn it!

The circulation herb...there is one that he is on, the Chinese herbal for the veins. I think that is helping. But who knows what is doing what at this point. I was thinking that he had less fullness in his neck, but that might be because we increased his thyroid meds. At first I was thinking an improvement in the infection, but it's not clear. There are so many angles to this!
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/30/11 07:39 PM

I'm reading daily and just trying to keep up and understand at least part of it.

Get better Mr Max. I hope today's treatment was a good one!
Posted by: DancingCavy

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/30/11 08:32 PM

*HUGS* to Max. I am so happy to hear he had a good time at work. Lucky pup getting to come along for the day. smile
Posted by: JeanKBBMMMAAN

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/30/11 09:34 PM

Originally Posted By: PositiveDog
I'm reading daily and just trying to keep up and understand at least part of it.

Get better Mr Max. I hope today's treatment was a good one!


Same here! Glad he got to go to work. That's always seems to make things go better for the human.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/30/11 10:38 PM

Thank you guys, I know it's waaaaay complicated, and most of the time just too much information!

I'm remembering, after the first infusion, Max was only able to walk a couple houses up afterwards, and then he was ready to turn back and load up and come home. After the last infusion and also today, we were able to walk around a very long block, so I guess there is some improvement, and I'm going to hang on to that for awhile!


Infusion #4:


I smell a German Shepherd Puppy in the next room (Mom says it looks like I'm smelling the plant!):


Where is that little chihuahua that was in that room last time barking at me?


Have I mentioned lately that I'm slightly annoyed by all this? I'm a good boy because I understand that it's important, but I'm not saying that I like this:


Chiropractor? Did you say chiropractor? oh boy! Did I mention how well I can tilt after Mom gives me my adequan injection?


Thanks for the support everyone! They say I don't have to come back for two more weeks, woo! hoo!
Posted by: Woodreb

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/30/11 10:57 PM

Max, Just remember that it's all to make you feel better.

-Aodhán
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/30/11 11:08 PM

Lisa,

I was counting on the regular Max infusion of sheer grace. He is proof positive of the intelligence dogs manifest and the trust they grant the best of us.

Get better Mr. Max. It's really important.

MJ
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/30/11 11:38 PM

My gosh he is a handsome guy! Max - love the head tilt!
Posted by: JeanKBBMMMAAN

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/30/11 11:44 PM

He is super handsome! I think TMI is good - a good log too. KW this continues to help.
Posted by: Furonthefloor

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/30/11 11:59 PM

Lisa, I'm sorry I don't have any answers for you & Max, but just wanted to wish you guys some good days ahead. I loved the pics of Max at work, he's so handsome. I showed my husband & he went on & on about how gorgeous he is.
huggingto you & Max
Posted by: bianca

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/31/11 05:51 AM

The walking further..that has to be a good sign to hang onto. Now if you can get these nosebleeds under control frown

Gorgeous Max, you are such a good boy and I hope you know all this treatment is to make you feel better hugging
Posted by: Qyn

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/31/11 08:20 AM

I'm with Bianca here, (not literally, of course) but I agree that if his stamina has improved at the very least he is feeling up to doing more exercise and that is a very big bonus. Those photos are beautiful Lisa even if he is wearing a cannula in hospital. hug
Posted by: laevsk

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/31/11 09:40 AM

He is such a beautiful guy!

I haven't kept up well on things and I apologize - I'm really sorry that you and Max are going through this!!

I had a couple of thoughts while I read through some of your posts. I'm not quite picturing the sore on the nose, so this may not work at all. But in the past I've had a couple of raw spots that I was able to keep from bleeding by slathering vaseline or udder cream (can't remember what it's called - in the green can, you can buy it anywhere) on the sore. It would only work temporarily for a dog, but during times when there may be some added stress (when you take him outside, or when he's eating), I thought that spreading vaseline thickly on the nose might help avoid the bleeding even if he bumps it a bit.

On the doxycycline - I know that for humans, there's a protocol (might be the one already mentioned) that involves using tetracycline-based antibiotics for autoimmune diseases. In the case of rheumatoid arthritis (my disease of choice ..*L*), the theory is that the inflammation in the joints is caused by bacteria. By using the antibiotic low-dose and long-term, the bacteria is slowly killed off. They use it low-dose because high-dose would kill the bacteria too quickly and cause a painful flare.

Max doesn't have RA, of course, but what caught my eye is that you have him on doxycycline, which is one of the tetracycline-based antibiotics that is used in this protocol. But it's not the antibiotic they recommend the most - that one is minocycline. They're related but work slightly different, and the mino is considered a better antibiotic for the bacteria mentioned above. People can use doxy but it usually is less effective. I took doxy for a while, then went to minocycline and was on that for years. Maybe the minocycline would be an option for Max? It might be more effective?

I know it's very difficult to switch meds, though, but I did want to mention about the mino just in case you need to switch him off of the doxy at some time.

Keeping positive thoughts for Max (and you too!).

Melanie and the girls in Alaska
Posted by: middleofnowhere

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/31/11 09:41 AM

Hey, Mr. Max try to stop bumping that nose, OK? Glad you feel better after the infusions - maybe this one will last a little bit longer.
Posted by: LJsMom

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/31/11 11:06 AM

Love the 3rd picture!

Would a basket muzzle drive him crazy?
Posted by: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/31/11 12:25 PM

Lisa, thanks for the pictures of Max.

Great news that he was able to walk farther. His previous benchmark was a couple of houses. Just for figures use 200 ft per house that was 800 ft. Now figure how many houses are on the big block x 200 ft. If you figure 12 houses that is a 300% increase in Max's stamina. That is HUGE. You have to forget what he did before and use the current bechmarks.

Now for the nose bleeding, I will give you some thing to think about. When I get a bad cold sore it is caused by a virus. I have found that Blistex is the best over the counter stuff, but I would check with your Vets before giving it a try. The point about bleeding is that as my sore heal from the inside out, at a certain point they bleed. I think it is a certain amount of virus left that has to be pushed out before it can heal properly. So maybe that is what is going on with Max, there is healing happening, but he has to get rid of the yucky so it can heal properly. Just a thought.
Posted by: DancingCavy

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 08/31/11 08:19 PM

LOVE that head tilt photo. Max is such a looker. So glad to hear his stamina is increasing as well. Hooray!
Posted by: bianca

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 09/01/11 05:13 AM

Hoping Max is doing well today and no more bleeds hugging
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 09/01/11 08:00 AM

Just a quick check in. Max and I are just totally exhausted trying to keep this under control. He's been going into work with me, very tiring for both of us, and very difficult to get things I need done.

I haven't been grocery shopping in weeks? Been worried about the bleeding - using the last of the coffee tomorrow, so I guess I will chance it very soon (like tomorrow)!

He had some blood drops today at school, but no outright bleeding, so that's good I guess, two days with no bleeding.
I am using Manuka honey on the nose, per vet instructions. It's doing something - either getting better or getting worse, trying to remember things Val just mentioned. The bleeding before was just bad stuff, but the changes now, has more crusty blood on the surface, but maybe that's okay.

His gut is so inflamed, he's not digesting well, so I'm starting to grind his food so hopefully he will get more nutrition from it. Sigh, did I mention I'm spoon feeding so he doesn't scrape the nose when he eats?

We both thank you all for all the good wishes and compliments. They all help so much right now! Once we hopefully get past this nose issue, then back to focusing on the breathing...
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 09/01/11 11:32 AM

Oh, Lisa...I can feel the level of stress you're under and all of the worry...I went through this with Cleo and understand so well how you're feeling. I wish I could do your grocery shopping for you. I know how exhausted you are right now. Big hugs and extra strong positive energy and calming and healing vibes going your way.

You hang in there beautiful Max!
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 09/01/11 11:49 AM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
.... did I mention I'm spoon feeding so he doesn't scrape the nose when he eats?...

...


No, but I could have guessed it.

It's pretty impressive how you can rearrange your priorities with the kind of ongoing demand Max's health presents. I think that must be how human beings survived, knowing where to put their thought and energy.

I hope you have the energy left to take care of (some of) your own needs. If you need a cheering squad, you've got one. smile

all the best to you and Max,
MJ
Posted by: Braverhund

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 09/01/11 01:49 PM

Sending healing vibes for Max, and anti-stress vibes for both you and Max. hugging peacesign bloomrose May his nose settle down, and may you see no more blood drops to worry you. Wishing for strong, stable, steady breathing for Max. C'mon Mr. Handsome, we're all rooting for you! crossedfingers
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 09/01/11 07:44 PM

Well, we've had three days without a major bleed. There has been a bit of blood seepage, but no major bleed, so all the good thoughts and well-wishes must be helping thumbup Thank you!

To be truthful, I can't tell what the nose is doing. I can see that there is now blood consistently just under a wider surface than before, but unlike before when that meant it would bleed, it is not bleeding. So I'm hoping, that the blood means that there is increased circulation to the area (better for healing?), but no bleed means that it is actually healing.

I find it interesting, the sore at the tail end (fistula in 2009-2010) and the sore at the front end (nose). Maybe this circulation thing has been going on a long time. If not, my chiro today (Max and I ran errands before it got too hot), wondered if the fistula is what allowed the gut bacteria to get into the bloodstream and go systemic. The time line would be consistent with this theory, which means that the e.coli theory would be an opportunistic infection, on top of his ongoing issues, thus the continued need for the doxy (since the e.coli requires cipro at this point). My head is still spinning!

It was a bit warm, but Max did wait in the car while I was able to pick up a few things, and of course coffee and ice cream were on that list....SOON I must find a way to get him some more meat. It's supposed to be near 100 degrees tomorrow. When he's in the car, he doesn't do things to bother his nose, but that's not an option with the heat.

Ruth, I was thinking about you and Cleo the other day, I *know* you know what this is like!

It sure would be nice to think that he is actually getting better crossedfingers
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 09/01/11 08:35 PM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa

It sure would be nice to think that he is actually getting better crossedfingers


yes, please
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 09/01/11 08:46 PM

Originally Posted By: Mary Jane
Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa

It sure would be nice to think that he is actually getting better crossedfingers


yes, please

please

I will say, he is jumping up and barking at every noise today, and I'm not even complaining or stopping him....
Posted by: LJsMom

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 09/01/11 08:49 PM

Maybe you could take mom or dad on a ride along to the store? They could stay in the car with the a/c running with Max? Bribe everyone with ice cream?
Posted by: JakodaCD OA

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 09/01/11 09:12 PM

sounds encouraging! will keep all fingers, toes, and paws crossed, sounds like he is feeling better!!! Love the pics, he is such a handsome boy, and good patient:)
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 09/01/11 09:28 PM

One good day is wonderful. Three good days is a party! party

I hope things keep looking up for Max and Mom. thumbup
Posted by: JeanKBBMMMAAN

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 09/01/11 10:55 PM

Originally Posted By: LJsMom
Maybe you could take mom or dad on a ride along to the store? They could stay in the car with the a/c running with Max? Bribe everyone with ice cream?
Originally Posted By: LJsMom
Maybe you could take mom or dad on a ride along to the store? They could stay in the car with the a/c running with Max? Bribe everyone with ice cream?


I think you need to move to WNY - I like your thinking. Apparently so much somehow I quoted you twice???

crossedfingers crossedfingers crossedfingers

For each day.
Posted by: DancingCavy

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 09/01/11 11:13 PM

It gets hot here too, though. Just not at this time of the year.

And Risa and I would be happy to have you move close by. You could be within driving distance, lol.

Sending more good thoughts to you and Max.
Posted by: bianca

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 09/02/11 06:41 AM

Three days, that does deserve a party party Hoping by now it is 4 days!
Posted by: SeanRescueMom

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 09/02/11 07:29 PM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
It sure would be nice to think that he is actually getting better crossedfingers


crossedfingers here too! hug
Posted by: Braverhund

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 09/02/11 07:32 PM

Fingers, crossedfingers toes, eyes, and b00bs all crossed for sweet, handsome Max to be improving!
Posted by: bianca

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 09/03/11 07:14 AM

Just checking in on Mr Handsome hugging

Patti- B00bs rofl I can't help in that department, anyone say ironing board! laugh
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 09/03/11 02:50 PM

Patti, I'm trying to visualize that...or not rofl

No big nose bleeds since Monday morning - so happy! It still oozes, but does not bleed. Of course, he is watched like a hawk - I won't be able to keep that up, but with luck, the nose will be strong enough to not bleed. Thank goodness Monday is a holiday, so I won't have to leave him all day until Wednesday - that's a break!

Fact of the morning: dried blood splatter on the carpet will flake off if scratched with a finger nail. I'm wondering, if his blood were infectious, is that still the case after it's dried? Anyone know? If it's infectious, I'm sure it's too late, but just curious.

So, now, maybe get back to concentrating on his breathing!

Joanne, I was thinking about the ice cream and the car thing. I think I'd freeze the folks out with the level of air conditioning that Max needs - old folks get cold! Loved the thought though!
Posted by: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 09/03/11 04:25 PM

Lisa, I am so happy that Max's nose is getting better.
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 09/03/11 04:36 PM

Keeping fingers, toes and paws crossed here for a good weekend for Max and Lisa!

It's beastly hot here (90 degrees and H U M I D) and we are all suffering. Cleo is a tiny slug in this weather.
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 09/03/11 04:43 PM

I would like to think that good days have a cumulative effect and make the next day a little easier.

step by step...

MJ
Posted by: Barb E

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 09/03/11 04:51 PM

WoooHooo on no bleeds since Monday laugh

And I think as far as infectious "stuff" in dried blood, it depends on the "stuff" and how long/where it can live.

That was technical huh? spitcoffee
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 09/03/11 05:20 PM

Quote:
And I think as far as infectious "stuff" in dried blood, it depends on the "stuff" and how long/where it can live.


Barb! Who would have known you knew so much about that?! rofl


Lisa;

No nose bleeds are def good news! Looks like we have a cooling spell coming in starting with the thunder I am hearing now. 70s by the first of the week!

Hope you get it too and that makes life better for you and Max!
Posted by: JakodaCD OA

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 09/03/11 05:36 PM

yeahhhhh max and lisa:)
Posted by: Barb E

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 09/03/11 06:54 PM

Originally Posted By: PositiveDog
Quote:
And I think as far as infectious "stuff" in dried blood, it depends on the "stuff" and how long/where it can live.


Barb! Who would have known you knew so much about that?! rofl


spitcoffee
Posted by: bianca

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 09/04/11 03:58 AM

Great news! Now lets see if we can aim for a week!

Lisa just don't suddenly do anything that needs CSI to come in with their blue lights to check your carpet!
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 09/04/11 03:59 AM

Barb, very scientific!!

The humidity, thank goodness we don't have that. Our weather has been changing here the past years, Sept seems to heat up more each year now, we don't have much of a Fall anymore, Max and I sure would like for that to be not the case!

Mary Jane, I do think there is a cumulative effect.

It was so nice to be able to relax about things just a bit today. He tried to play with hisQ ball a bit today. I miss him being able to play.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? - 09/04/11 04:08 AM

Originally Posted By: bianca
Lisa just don't suddenly do anything that needs CSI to come in with their blue lights to check your carpet!


spitcoffee

That's a plan!
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/04/11 04:02 PM

Had a small bleed this morning. I think he was rubbing his nose on the blanket - he kept trying to do that this morning, but I stopped him. I wasn't there, and thankfully it stopped after some big drips - no splatter or spray, so that is very good. Very good it stopped on it's own!

I have to leave for a bit, so good nose thoughts for the boy while I'm away crossedfingers My sister's Husky is in ER right now, cause unknown, stroke or nerve toxin, so any good thoughts for Snow would be appreciated... crossedfingers crossedfingers
Posted by: Barb E

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/04/11 04:31 PM

*Zooming many good thoughts south for Max and for Snow, as well as for you and your sister!*
Posted by: bianca

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/04/11 07:37 PM

Also sending my best healing thoughts to Snow and your sister and of course to Max and you hugging
Posted by: Woodreb

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/04/11 07:43 PM

Sending good thoughts for you and Max and for your sister and Snow.
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/04/11 09:31 PM

I can do good nose thoughts for Mr. Max: anybody remember Jimmy Durante?

For Snow, people are pulling for you-just for a Husky.

take care,
MJ
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/04/11 09:54 PM

I remember Jimmy Durante!

"pulling" for the Husky laugh

No nose blood this afternoon, and Snow appears to be responding to fluids, so all your good thoughts are 2 for 2 tonight! Thank you guys!! With luck, he will be a ton better and get to go home tomorrow crossedfingers

This week, I will keep working on the nose, and will also pull out anything from the diet that might be dilating the blood vessels. That's tough, since some of that stuff is for immune system inflammation, but it's worth a try. I am hoping that by the end of the week, I can try an increased dose of doxy.

I had almost started to believe that he would be all right once the nose was addressed, but then there is all that pesky, not being able to breath stuff, that we have to deal with.

But, it's a good weekend, we've had a couple of pieces of really good news, and I'm just going to enjoy that for awhile!
Posted by: Barb E

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/04/11 11:04 PM

Glad to hear about your sister's Husky!

hugging to you and Max
Posted by: bianca

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/05/11 07:08 AM

Great news about Snow!

hugging to you and a gentle pat (but not near the nose) for sweet Max.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/05/11 06:16 PM

Thank you guys!

Snow is home now, the fluids worked great. Now we just watch and hope this was a one-time flukey thing. We are thinking (hoping!) it might have been something weird from having an iguana in his mouth shocked He was very stumbly, unable to motor, barely lifting his head, and definitely failed the paw knuckle test.

Max had a bleed/spray last night. After I got it stopped, I followed the blood trail, and it appeared that he was playing with his ball and scraped his nose on the carpet. Poor boy, can't even play ball right now! I need to get this healed up so I can increase his meds. His blood pressure is pretty low, I have been monitoring it. I'm thinking of trying to hit this with some of the tick herbs, but I don't quite know the best mix to put him on at this point.

Oh, blood splatter? True, the best way is, after it's dried, scrape (fingernail works best?) and vaccuum. I will repeat....I am very glad that this carpet is 17 years old and already needed to be replaced!

The really nice thing is that he is feeling like playing, and on walks, he is no longer turning back while we are still close to home. Some of that might be getting the thyroid back in the therapeutic range. This is the current good news!

So, we are in a bit of a holding pattern, we'll see what the week brings, but hopefully by Friday, more good news.
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/05/11 06:36 PM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
....
The really nice thing is that he is feeling like playing, and on walks, he is no longer turning back while we are still close to home. .... This is the current good news!...


Look, I don't think Max actually speaks English so what else can he do but show you he is up to playing. I'm so happy to read this.

It's such a long road that you two are traveling. not to force the image but step by step.

cheers,
MJ
Posted by: Barb E

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/05/11 06:38 PM

Max needs a nose guard, Like a welders helmet
smile
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/05/11 07:49 PM

Yes, Mary Jane, I'm trying to remember that step by step! Next vit C infusion in just over a week, I'll get some bloodwork done, and see where he stands with that.

Barb, maybe we can get that nose guard custom made! I had thought about the basket muzzle that Joanne had thought about, just too easy to bump the nose!
Posted by: bianca

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/05/11 08:10 PM

Another stupid thought, but what about a big cone so his nose cannot touch anything?
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/05/11 10:26 PM

Not a stupid thought at all...in fact, it would work. It really messes with his neck, and I worry about his breathing, which he has enough difficulty with, but it's definitely somethign that is an option, and would protect the nose, yes!
Posted by: LJsMom

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/06/11 09:12 AM

Originally Posted By: bianca
Another stupid thought, but what about a big cone so his nose cannot touch anything?


Like the blow up cone things - might not hurt his neck as much as a hard cone.
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/07/11 05:31 PM

How is Mr Max today? And your sister's husky.

Hope it has been a quiet and good day!
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/08/11 07:56 PM

Hi Lisa and Max,

OK there are other things than update here, but like Bonnie I hope you've had another good day: no red drops and some walks.

MJ
Posted by: laevsk

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/09/11 02:46 AM

You know, Lisa, I was thinking about you earlier when I was heading into town. I was thinking about the different ways people handle their dogs and how some people are mentally/physically abusive to their dogs, while others do everything in their power to make their dogs happy and healthy. As a trainer and as a vet tech, I've seen a lot of good dog owners. To be a good dog owner, all you really need to do is provide a healthy diet, a warm and dry place to live, proper health care, and enough kind and caring interaction to give the dog good social ability. It isn't hard to do. And it's easy to see which dogs are truly happy and which are not. Good owners = relatively happy dogs.

But in your case - everything I have seen online, everything I've read from you, everything you've shared about your own dogs and all the help you've given to others, proves to me that YOU are the epitome of an EXCELLENT dog owner. You're not just a good owner - you're the kind of person that goes far beyond the basics when it comes to care of your dogs. You have so much love for your Max, that you research and study and pow-wow with your vets in an attempt to find the very best treatment possible. You don't skimp. You don't decide to euthanize your dog because caring for him is too much work. Your life revolves around him in a way that you rarely see in a dog owner. And when you post that you've been to the vet, or you've called the vet, or you've done some treatment or another - I fully believe that you've done just what you said you did. I don't trust that many people online ... but I'm impressed with everything you're doing to help out your beloved Max.

I have no doubt that the intelligent, empathetic, knowledgeable people on this forum can see exactly what I see. They see someone with absolute devotion. They see someone who - even in the middle of their own difficulties - takes the time to help others. They see the absolute BEST in dog ownership, and someone that we should all strive to copy. I know there are other absolutely wonderful dog owners on this forum who share the same level of love that you have for Max, and understand fully the sacrifices and commitment it takes to be so devoted to his health care.

Thank you for being such a good person, Lisa. Thank you for caring so much for Max, that you give up all your free time just to be at his side. Thank you for researching and studying and finding the BEST treatment possible. And if anyone is ridiculous and low-class enough to make derogatory remarks about the wonderful, dedicated care you give your dog, well ... remember that you are surrounded by intelligent people, and ignore the ignorant. They just don't matter. Any deprecating comment is pure jealousy.

Anyhow, those were my thoughts earlier, and I just wanted to share. I don't post here very often but I do think frequently about you and Max, and wonder how things are going. I'll keep sending you very positive and warm thoughts from Alaska, and hope Max is having more good moments than bad!

Melanie and the girls in Alaska
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/09/11 09:33 PM

Melanie, thank you, you make me blush blush The nice thing about this forum, is that we are surrounded by LOTS of excellent pet owners/guardians, which is what makes it such a nice home. Thank goodness things will be more quiet now smile

Bonnie and Mary Jane, it meant a lot to me that you checked in on Max. A few others have pm'ed me, and it all helps, because, it really is so day to day with him.

He had a bleed on Tuesday, and we happened to be out and about. Tuesday was the day where everything went wrong. But it stopped relatively quickly, and thank goodness he wasn't in the car when it happened! I did have to drive home with a bloodied hand frown Wed. there were a few drops, but it was his first day all day alone (long day), and he did great, in terms of the nose. I left him some on Thursday, and another longer day Friday, with no major bleed, so that's a huge accomplishment. His other side seems to be clearly healing. The bad side, I do think, is healing, but more slowly.

The breathing, I'm not so sure. I had taken him off of amoxicillin, and he seemed to be weaker. It almost seems like the amoxi is important for his lungs.

Struggling with the breathing issue....if he's more active, it could make it seem like the breathing is worse, so I'm having trouble interpreting. Hopefully this weekend I'll get a better sense.

Tuesday we went and saw his long term vet; she really isn't involved in this issue because of her very part-time work status. We just wanted to check in, and she still helps manage some of his regular care prescriptions. She was thinking about how scary this thing of Max's is....being an infection, not enough to make him outwardly as sick as he is, but the abx do not clear it, kinda insidious and scary. Part of this is his immunodeficiency (low IgA, IgG and IgM), but it seems like, whatever this is, is sneaky scary.

The acu vet, last week after his vitamin C infusion, was commenting how he has such a strong "shen" (I guess in TCM it means spirit?), that he just doesn't seem as sick as he is. And that is the problem, the internal medicine guy is the first of a number of vets that recognized that he is a very sick boy.

I am lucky he is such a strong spirit wub
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/09/11 10:00 PM

I'm sure he does have a strong spirit and it shines in his pictures.

It sounds like this past week may have been better than the past ones.

Day by day and just keep getting better, Max. wub
Posted by: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/09/11 11:31 PM

Lisa this week didn't sound too bad. Much better than the massive bleeds Max was having.

Hoping for many more days, weeks, months, years that Max is with you.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/10/11 12:32 AM

Yes, this week, the nose was definitely better! I so hope that he is here for a lot longer....I"m very worried.


I'm wondering if anyone here knows anything about tuberculosis, just thought of something...

I worked closely with a student, for several years, that was later found to have TB, that was inactive (didn't show up on xray), and I know she wasn't supposed to be contagious. I"m just wondering if I could have passed it along to Max, and it's not showing up on an xray, but causing some inflammation.

Just kinda wondering....stranger things have probably happened.
Posted by: Barb E

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/10/11 01:11 AM

Does he have a cough?

Just been doing some Yahoo searches on it - it is zoonotic so if you think there might be a chance you do need to watch your own health

hugging
Posted by: Qyn

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/10/11 04:37 AM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
...I"m just wondering if I could have passed it along to Max, and it's not showing up on an xray, but causing some inflammation. .....


The only things you have passed on to Max are devotion, care and love. hugging
Posted by: bianca

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/10/11 05:59 AM

Haven't been able to check in to see how Max is doing but I have been keeping you both in my thought hugging

TB can be spread by wildlife no? I am fairly sure in New Zealand the hedgehogs were carriers.

Keep getting stronger Max, you are in the thoughts of so many.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/10/11 03:12 PM

The problem with the TB thought, is that his xrays are clear. I've heard him cough a handful of times though, and he didn't have that before. I messaged my doctor to see if I could get a quick TB test, just for fun....

Qyn hugging

bianca, I appreciate the efforts you are making to check the forum! I'm also keeping crossedfingers for Mary Jane this weekend....
Posted by: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/10/11 03:41 PM

My DH uses an older TB drug when he has a MRSA outbreak. Since this is a family of drugs not used much any more it works really well.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/10/11 05:49 PM

Thanks Val...it almost makes me wish I were positive for TB frown , how convoluted is that headbang

I just wish we could get a positive result on *something*. The internal med guy is pretty certain that there is lung inflammation (he calls it pneumonitis). The cause of it, not so certain.

I've been thinking about blood vessel dilation, vasculitis, etc. My only experience on the forums was with Enya, from the other forum ( rip ). That was anaplasmosa (which used to be classified as one of the ehrlichias). I found a reference to ehrlichia causing pneumonitis in humans: http://cid.oxfordjournals.org/content/37/6/846.full

I hope, one more week, and maybe I can start moving my concentration from the nose, to the breathing and the blood vessels. Last night I caught him digging up the sheet on his bed with his nose and my heart sunk, figured I'd be cleaning up more blood splatter. Just some ooze from the end, I caught him in time, and I think that's a really good sign.
Posted by: Woodreb

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/10/11 06:40 PM

crossedfingers and paws that Max continues to have a good weekend.
Posted by: DancingCavy

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/10/11 08:13 PM

Sounds like a good sign to me too. Hope it's only the beginning for Mr. Max.
Posted by: bianca

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/11/11 06:07 AM

That is good *hugging*
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/12/11 11:31 AM

Hi Lisa and Max,

If Max's nose could stand the friction from the sheet, that sounds a lot better than last week, I believe. I hate to think of the stress in your movement from one ailment to the other, but heaven knows if one is resolving that's progress.

Does Max have another vitamin C tomorrow, I lost count?

I don't know enough to have specific wishes, so please accept just a general wish for some better health for Max and some relief for Lisa.

Mary Jane
Posted by: bianca

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/13/11 08:40 AM



just checking in to say I hope Max has had another good day hugging













'
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/13/11 04:00 PM

Hi everyone, thanks for checking up on me, it really helps. It's been a rough and frustrating week, so Mom and I are hoping that today's vitamin C infusion helps turn things around a bit. I've been having an awfully hard time breathing. Mom keeps looking at the giant peeks in radiation around here, and I keep telling her to stop being silly....she also says that my gums and tongue are kinda pale. They seem to work for me, so I'm not so worried.

I've had a few nosebleeds, but Ma stops them pretty quick. Between you and me, on our walks, I kinda just ignore her - I really miss sticking my nose in the grass and everywhere where I want to smell, so I try to do it anyway. And this eating from a spoon? I don't know how you hoomans do it, it really slows a dog down!

Today was infusion day for me, I lost count which one, I think Mom said #5:


I am always thirsty:


Okay, here we go again:


I'm feeling a bit out of sorts today:













Ma tried to get me to head tilt all morning, but I just wasn't in the mood.


But on the way home, when she mentioned breakfast, that made me feel better....


Getting old probably wouldn't be that bad, but being old and sick really sucks frown Hopefully things will turn around soon. At least I am still able to walk further than I was awhile back, and I really like my walks. And breakfast - I really like breakfast, even with a spoon. Oh, and dinner, dinner is good too? Did someone say treats? I really really like treats, and walks, and sitting in the yard and looking at the birds.....I guess things aren't really that bad, they could be worse!
Posted by: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/13/11 04:25 PM

Max the man, I have to share this with you. DeeDee taught me that some times you can just be happy stopping and smelling roses. So while you don't feel up to running around, I think things are a little better for you, you get to take longer walks without being exhausted. One of my first GSD's favorite things to do was to just sit or lay down and take in the sites and smells.

I see that you seemed a little bored with the Vit C infusion today. But you are such a good boy when you are there. I hope you got a really yummy breakfast when you got home.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/13/11 10:31 PM

Originally Posted By: Wisc.Tiger_Val
Max the man, I have to share this with you. DeeDee taught me that some times you can just be happy stopping and smelling roses. So while you don't feel up to running around, I think things are a little better for you, you get to take longer walks without being exhausted. One of my first GSD's favorite things to do was to just sit or lay down and take in the sites and smells.

I see that you seemed a little bored with the Vit C infusion today. But you are such a good boy when you are there. I hope you got a really yummy breakfast when you got home.


Thanks Val....while I would rather be chasing these cattailwag (I look under every car in the hopes of finding one I will work on that stopping and smelling the roses!

I did get lots of treats today, so even I was bored, it's worth it to get out AND for the treats, yummy!

Breakfast was yummy, but, really, I hate waiting so long for dinner after that!
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/13/11 10:48 PM

Max looks so sad today, Lisa. frown And hopefully it is jut the pictures, but are his eyes a little red, too?

How is his pannus?

Come on, Mr Max, eat up and get better. Yo have a cheering squad!
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/14/11 01:30 AM

yes Bonnie, he is sad, he is not feeling well. Right now he's hiding in his crate, not knowing what else to do frown

I know I need to up his doxy dose, but I can't get there, with this stupid nose bleeding headbang

His eyes are always so red, part of his systemic inflammation - the pannus meds barely make a dent in that, but they do keep the corneas clear so that his vision is retained.

We're just sad over here right about now.
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/14/11 06:24 AM

hugging
Posted by: Barb E

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/14/11 08:34 AM

hugging
Posted by: Woodreb

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/14/11 09:19 AM

grouphug
Posted by: TMarie

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/14/11 09:55 AM

Lots of hugging for you and Max.
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/14/11 10:55 AM

Lisa,

You both are permitted a down day. As everybody knows just fighting chronic illness is incredibly demanding, just staying in place. I do AIDS research and I remember well the caregiver burnout early in the epidemic.

You both must be bone tired.

Like Bonnie said, your cheering squad is on the field, wishing we could do something for you.

all the best,
Mary Jane
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/14/11 11:42 AM

Thank you everyone, it really does help.
Another bleed this morning, worse than the most recent ones, probably from the increased pressure from the infusion.

I broke down and tried to cauterize it this morning. It did change colors, have no clue yet if it actually worked. I'm bringing him with me today, am already late for work.

It is possible, that his recent decline is due to the decrease in pred dose. I will play with that some. Wishing I would have run bloodwork yesterday, we had decided to give the thyroid one more week on the new dose, darn it!

Okay, even though it started bad, every day with Max at work with me is a good day smile
Posted by: DancingCavy

Re: Max: adrenals, SIBO, TBD, immunodeficiency & more - 09/14/11 07:13 PM

grouphug
Posted by: Kris

Re: Max: adrenals, SIBO, TBD, immunodeficiency & more - 09/14/11 07:50 PM

Ah Max...such a sweet and special boy... wub Lisa, I just don't know what to say to help. You are doing everything humanly possible to help Max get well. I still have much hope that will happen soon. I love what Melanie said. Something I've thought time after time, but was never able to put into words. He's so lucky to have you, and believe me, I know how lucky you feel to have him too. Continuing to send good and healing thoughts to Max. I hope he can feel the love coming his way from everyone on this forum. And lots of hugs to you Lisa. You are amazing... hugging
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Max: adrenals, SIBO, TBD, immunodeficiency & more - 09/14/11 08:41 PM

grouphug
Posted by: bianca

Re: Max: adrenals, SIBO, TBD, immunodeficiency & more - 09/14/11 08:50 PM

Lisa, you and Max are always in my thoughts hugging
Posted by: kelso

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/15/11 12:47 AM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
yes Bonnie, he is sad, he is not feeling well. Right now he's hiding in his crate, not knowing what else to do frown

I know I need to up his doxy dose, but I can't get there, with this stupid nose bleeding headbang

His eyes are always so red, part of his systemic inflammation - the pannus meds barely make a dent in that, but they do keep the corneas clear so that his vision is retained.

We're just sad over here right about now.



Oh, Lisa..I am sorry frown hugging for you and Max. I just caught up with this thread (love the pics of your handsome guy). Lots of prayers for you all.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Max: adrenals, SIBO, TBD, immunodeficiency & more - 09/15/11 12:50 AM

Long day, long week. The cauteriazation makes his nose look a lot better, but it bled a couple of times today at work. It bled in a slightly different area, so I might try to cauterize again. I dunno, I burned his tongue a bit - guess after I washed the nose, it wasn't enough and he licked it. Not sure what to do.

Will keep you all posted

And thank you! grouphug

Eta: thank you Steph, sorry that you have been brought here to the Health Forum. Off to find you update on kelso...
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Max: adrenals, SIBO, TBD, immunodeficiency & more - 09/15/11 12:58 AM

bloomrose Lisa ... thinking of you and Max. It sounds like you're doing everything possible for him ... you're lucky you can take him to work. You've always been so kind and helped me so much when one of the Hooligans has been sick, wish I could return the favor.

hugging hugging hugging Give him some extra hugs for me!!! hugging hugging hugging
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Max: adrenals, SIBO, TBD, immunodeficiency & more - 09/15/11 02:45 AM

Thank you Gayle, as you know, it's just so frustrating when they are sick!

I will go and give him some of those extra hugs in just a few minutes wub
Posted by: Qyn

Re: Max: adrenals, SIBO, TBD, immunodeficiency & more - 09/15/11 04:52 AM

I wish I had more to offer than just hugs and best wishes. hugging
Posted by: JeanKBBMMMAAN

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/15/11 10:20 AM

Awww, Max. Up and down days - but he's got some oomph for food!

I have something recently - with Bella on over a month of abx for her UTI, her eyes are reacting poorly to her immune system being boosted (or that's how I am reading it). With Mila, she's on pred, her eyes are looking better even with the abx boosting because apparently the pred is stronger. These are just guesses on my part. It's a mish-mash and the thing I figure I am trying to do is to address the most important to their systems, so we're stuck on the drugs and the eyeballs will have to catch up later.

Best to Max!
Posted by: DnP

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/15/11 11:34 AM

Oh Lisa, not sure how I missed this entire thread...

I'm sending lots of positive thoughts to you and Max. I got slammed with Dakota's health issues all at one time when he was alive. About 6 months prior to his DM diagnosis, he was diagnosed with Uveodermatologic Syndrome (UDS)by a UPENN opthamologist. One of those thing where when it rains it pours. Luckily, I caught it in time (originally I thought he had conjunctivitis and then he started bumping into me on walks which concerned me)and his retinas reattached...but then he kept walking into me and seemed unsteady...2 months/several x-rays/MRI/vet consultation with Dr. Clemmons later...DM diagnosis. sigh...

Oh heck, you know about being a medical advocate for your dogs...guess what I'm trying to say is that we become so wrapped up in being our dogs' caregivers/advocates, we forget about how the stress affects us.

So I just want to say I'm sending you some extra positive thoughts and prayers for being the best dog mom for Max. hugging
Posted by: bianca

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/16/11 04:46 AM

Just checking in on Mr Max tonight.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/17/11 06:30 AM

Qyn, hugs and wishes help a lot too! You and bianca are always so supportive, thank you to both for checking in smile

And Diana and Gayle and Kris and Jamie and everyone that checks in, it really is helpful, particularly when this is such a chronic thing.

Diana, yes, this is how it is, that time when it's one thing after another. The last 2 years have been so tough - the fistula, the back problem, and just when I thought he could start enjoying things, this...

The cauterization didn't really work as planned. 2 1/2 days later, what looked like a new skin from cauterizing, has sloughed off the nose. I had a bunch of details written here, but erased them - realized that you probably really don't want to know *how* the nose bleeds! It may have helped some, I'll know more in the next several days.

He is doing better - I upped his pred dose back up. It was down to 2.5mg per day, and he just has too much systemic inflammation. Have done a few days of 10mg, and will settle at 7mg by Monday and see how he does. Since I can't up the doxy because of his nose, I tried the pred, and it is helping - it may be the reason the nose is oozing a lot - maybe that's good and will force it to heal, whi knows shrug I also added something to counter the fact that doxy blocks the release of acetylcholine, in case that's a problem, if it helps.

During the day, I try to be sure to give him tramadol. 25mg. It seems to lower the blood pressure, and thus decreases the chance of a bleed while I'm not home, and hopefully makes it easier for him to sleep!

Jean, I could have sworn I posted a response to the abx thing....will do in a separate thread.

Glad it's the weekend!
Posted by: Qyn

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/17/11 07:51 AM

Wishing you a peaceful and rested weekend. hug
Posted by: bianca

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/17/11 09:40 AM

Originally Posted By: Qyn
Wishing you a peaceful and rested weekend. hug


+1
Posted by: Barb E

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/17/11 10:39 AM

Originally Posted By: bianca
Originally Posted By: Qyn
Wishing you a peaceful and rested weekend. hug


+1


+2

and lots of hugging of course
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/17/11 11:04 AM

+3
Posted by: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/17/11 11:09 AM

+3.

Lisa I hope you and Max have a really nice weekend.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/17/11 03:11 PM

cheers me too, thanks!
Posted by: SeanRescueMom

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/17/11 05:37 PM

Originally Posted By: Wisc.Tiger_Val
+3.


+4
Sometimes you have no choice but to up the prednisone, hope it helps. Ditto on the peaceful and restful weekend. hug
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/17/11 06:39 PM

Sending thoughts for both you and Max to have a good weekend. hugging
Posted by: arycrest

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/17/11 11:44 PM

Originally Posted By: Qyn
Wishing you a peaceful and rested weekend. hug
Me too!!!
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/18/11 12:12 PM

Lisa,

I'm reading and wishing you both the best. I know a little (OK, very little)about how the immune system is supposed to be controled, but when it comes to anybody I care about I am nervous about many interventions. I guess a little knowledge is dangerous.

I can only be glad that you see any improvement with prednisone. We're having what I think of as northern California weather: bright blue sky, cool wind, walzing clouds. I hope you enjoy the same.

many, many best wishes,
MJ
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/18/11 08:21 PM

Thanks everyone, we had a good weekend laugh

Some blood here and there, but nothing major, and it was just nice to have a weekend together. The pred has made a big difference, though I know that it's not "the" answer. At least it's giving him some relief, and hopefully keeping him here longer!

I'm in the middle of a grand experiment, which is either really good, or really bad, I guess I'll know in another few days. The encouraging part to this is that there has been no bleeding today, so holding my breath.....

Mary Jane, so glad you had such a nice day. Bubble Boy and I have been on house arrest until we get this nose healed a bit more - too many smells outside, and even the act of holding his head down seems to increase pressure on that darn nose - am hoping to get past this soon, and get working on all the other stuff!

Can't quite find a smiley for mad scientist, but crossedfingers cheers
Posted by: SeanRescueMom

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/18/11 08:40 PM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
The pred has made a big difference, though I know that it's not "the" answer. At least it's giving him some relief, and hopefully keeping him here longer!


Whatever helps Max is what's important so for now the pred. is a plus and you can think about tapering it later. Glad there hasn't been any bleeding today too. We're rooting for you and your guy! hug
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/18/11 10:06 PM

Thank you Marlene, I know you know how tricky this balance is! Hoping that Sean is doing well these days, I do think about him!

I appreciate the support and having you in my corner hugging
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/18/11 10:12 PM

I'm glad you had an uneventful weekend. Hopefully you'll be able to get Max off house arrest very soon!
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/18/11 10:17 PM

Originally Posted By: BowWowMeow
I'm glad you had an uneventful weekend. Hopefully you'll be able to get Max off house arrest very soon!


Thanks Ruth! We are so wanting to break out of this house arrest - we are getting stir crazy crazy
Posted by: kelso

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/18/11 10:43 PM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
Thanks everyone, we had a good weekend laugh

Some blood here and there, but nothing major, and it was just nice to have a weekend together. The pred has made a big difference, though I know that it's not "the" answer. At least it's giving him some relief, and hopefully keeping him here longer!

I'm in the middle of a grand experiment, which is either really good, or really bad, I guess I'll know in another few days. The encouraging part to this is that there has been no bleeding today, so holding my breath.....

Mary Jane, so glad you had such a nice day. Bubble Boy and I have been on house arrest until we get this nose healed a bit more - too many smells outside, and even the act of holding his head down seems to increase pressure on that darn nose - am hoping to get past this soon, and get working on all the other stuff!

Can't quite find a smiley for mad scientist, but crossedfingers cheers



Glad you had a good weekend thumbup
Hopefully he can get off house arrest soon, so you both will not go to stir crazy!

I had to find a mad scientist smiley of course smile

Posted by: arycrest

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/18/11 11:22 PM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
Thanks everyone, we had a good weekend laugh

Some blood here and there, but nothing major, and it was just nice to have a weekend together. The pred has made a big difference, though I know that it's not "the" answer. At least it's giving him some relief, and hopefully keeping him here longer!

I'm in the middle of a grand experiment, which is either really good, or really bad, I guess I'll know in another few days. The encouraging part to this is that there has been no bleeding today, so holding my breath.....
...
hugging hugging hugging

groovy Glad you two had such a great weekend!!! Your experiment sounds promising, keeping my fingers crossed that it continues to be successful.

hugging hugging hugging
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/19/11 12:58 AM

Originally Posted By: kelso
I had to find a mad scientist smiley of course smile


Bwwahahahahaha!!!! crazy

Thank you Gayle!

A successful 3/4 mile walk with no blood (still holding my breath)...of course, he's still got the breathing problem, but HUGE that there was no blood at all tonight.....
Posted by: bianca

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/19/11 05:52 AM

crossedfingers that your experiment is just whats needed.

So good to hear Bubble Boy (Lol) and you had a nice weekend hugging
Posted by: Qyn

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/19/11 08:43 AM

hugging
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/19/11 10:55 AM

Wonderful that you got out for a little walk. I hope the cooler weather will be good for Max.

hugging
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/19/11 12:16 PM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa

A successful 3/4 mile walk with no blood (still holding my breath)...of course, he's still got the breathing problem, but HUGE that there was no blood at all tonight.....


Sounds like something is working (knock wood violently).

thanks for the good news,
Mary Jane
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/19/11 07:02 PM

Two steps forward, one step back. Guess it's better than the other way around?

Stupid frickin' nose...just gotta play with dosages I think. I also think that Max is getting as frustrated as me, but he's such a good boy.

Will hopefully have some better updates this week!
Posted by: arycrest

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/19/11 08:41 PM

hugging hugging hugging hugging Lisa & Max hugging hugging hugging hugging
Posted by: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/19/11 11:12 PM

Lisa I am so happy to hear that Max got to have a nice 3/4 mile walk with minimal bleeding.

That is a huge improvement.
Posted by: bianca

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/20/11 03:55 AM

Oh Lisa I am so sorry you and Max are so frustrated hugging
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/20/11 08:24 PM

whistling That's me whistling for Max - or it would be if I could whistle.

Just wanted to give him a hug and wondering if was a good day for both of you. crossedfingers
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/21/11 09:46 PM

Today Max had his first solo bleed while I was away. I don't know how he managed it, but the large majority of mess was on washable surface, and there wasn't a lot of blood. I just feel really bad that he was here alone having to deal with it. But very happy at the outcome, this time.

My grand experiment failed, at least for now. What I was doing seemed to help the nose, but it actually suppresses cortisol, which is not good. I may still be able to play a bit, I dunno.
Still experimenting, hoping to trip over something useful. I'll just keep plugging away over here...
Posted by: unloader

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/21/11 10:19 PM

Wish I could help more! Remy says "Max, get better soon! "
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/21/11 10:46 PM

Thank you Michael smile

Maxwell says "Thanks Remy, I know you know, being sick sucks!". gsdsit
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/21/11 11:45 PM

Cleaning up some of the blood from the kitchen, found this card stashed away near the fridge. One of the first outings that Max and I did together after Indy died, was to an outdoor "dog fair" at a local spiritual center, and, while I'm not very religious (spiritual yes, religious no), I got us blessed there too....this was the blessing that was printed on the card I found tonight...

Quote:
My animal companion is a glorious expression of the Divine. I am committed to the health and happiness of this beloved being whose life has been entrusted to me. I bless my loving companion and all animals on this special day of celebration, and on each and every day that we walk in grace, together.

gsdhalo
Posted by: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/22/11 12:03 AM

I think it is appropriate that your found that again.

Lisa, please do not feel bad about Max having a little bleeding episode while you were gone. As long as it just a small amount I am sure he isn't even bothered by it.

I wish I had some Magic that I could send your way to help Max, but I will send you and Max some strength Vibes and Max some super healing vibes.
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/22/11 01:10 AM

Sorry, Lisa. I know how worrisome that must be but I would bet that Max handles it a lot better than you think. I have to leave Cleo often when she's sick (because she is has a couple of bad days every week) and she manages ok. Like Max she's a fighter. wub


Just you hang in there and keep your chin up, ok?
Posted by: arycrest

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/22/11 02:31 AM

Wish there were something I could do to help you.
Posted by: bianca

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/22/11 04:10 AM

hugging Come-on Max stop worry your Mum please keep better NOW! smile
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/22/11 08:44 PM

In the grand scheme of things, that bleed, could have been a lot worse, so that's a positive.

Ruth, when you use activated charcoal, if used on a regular basis, how far do you separate it from food and other meds? The standard two hours? If you do this, how many did you used to give Chama? There really isn't enough time to space out everything I want him to have in a day, if I want to continue working wink I know you know how that works Ruth, with Cleo catlapping

We have two options left. High dose doxy, or high dose steroids. I think the high dose steroids, are dangerous for him, and not the right thing, and was happy to hear that the internal medicine guy and I are on the same page on that. So.....I'm taking the leap, the nose is as good as it gets for right now, so I've started him on the high doxy dose as our last hurrah here. The only reason we haven't yet, is because of the nose bleeding. I think I can find some herbals that will lower the BP while his nose gets used to the higher dose, and the tramadol also has that effect to some degree, which I can use to make him feel better.

This near 100 degree heat at the end of Sept sure doesn't help sunburn

His bloodwork came back - abnormalities in all the glands - we already knew the adrenals, but also the thyroid, the liver, the pancreas.....so, have to do something, before things continue to get worse. They may get worse before they get better, but still hoping for that better part! He has perked up some on the doxy, but it hasn't been long enough to see really, and to see the effect on the nose - I am expecting some worse bleeding, but hoping that it will get better. He got better on the pred, and then continued to decline - a hallmark of inflammation caused by infection.

So.....good nose vibes, knowing there will be some more bleeding, but I'm hoping we can minimize it and get past this.
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/22/11 09:02 PM

Ugh, so stressful. So sorry the blood work wasn't better. frown

I use charcoal for everyone around here (except Cleo). I actually do more like 45 minutes to an hour away from meds. I usually just give 1 for dogs unless it's an acute situation and then I give 2.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/22/11 09:06 PM

Thanks Ruth. I think one of the problems with liver is that things aren't moving through the digestive tract in a reasonable time, so toxins are building up, in spite of probiotics, etc. I'm going to try some charcoal to help decrease the "bad stuff".

Yeah, the bloodwork, sucks. Still hopeful while we have a last shot at this.
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/22/11 09:55 PM

I promise you that we can do hope.
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/22/11 11:13 PM

Lisa;

Can Max take milk thistle or does he already? Maybe that would help?

Carduus marianus (Milk thistle): one of the most important herbal liver restoratives. Medical use of Milk Thistle may be traced back more than 2000 years. Milk Thistle has been part of many clinical trials which demonstrate its effectiveness. Scientific analysis of Milk Thistle shows that it contains a flavonoid complex called silymarin, which is largely responsible for the medical benefits of this herb.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/22/11 11:29 PM

Thanks Bonnie smile He's on a Liver Support that includes Milk Thistle, but I'm going to double it or so. I think the pred is *not* helping this at all, all the liver values have risen a lot in the last two months. We've seen this on the tick list, but it may or may not be the same process...

MJ, hope helps!
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/22/11 11:42 PM

As an addition, the liver value that is most increased in Max's bloodwork was the ALT, which is at 272 (norm: 5-107). It was 90 in July.

This is what I am using on him:
http://sites.google.com/site/blackgsd/lsf
Posted by: arycrest

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/23/11 12:31 AM

hugging hugging hugging Lisa & Max hugging hugging hugging

So sorry the report wasn't any better. Wish I were smart enough to recommend something that could help.
Posted by: middleofnowhere

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/23/11 02:44 AM

Trying to figure out how long a trial to give any one "drug" has got to be difficult. I'm sending you my good wishes but that is all I got, lady.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/23/11 02:51 AM

Thank you Gayle hugging

Well, I'm not sure if there is any answer out there for Maxwell frown I just wish my boy felt better.

I just discovered that what I was using to lower BP, is a blood thinner - not good for a dog that keeps bleeding! Just too many things to check.

Also learned that Glucosamin/Chondroitin can thin the blood, as well as fish oil and vitamin E. I've taken out his vit E for the week, and halved his joint supplement, but added more HA.

You're right middle, about how long, but we'll be running out of things to trial soon, so this better work out somehow.

Good wishes appreciated smile
Posted by: bianca

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/23/11 05:19 AM

I'm another one who wishes I was smart enough to offer suggestions, but you and Max are in my thoughts and prayers hugging
Posted by: kaisersmom

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/23/11 09:14 AM

It's so hard to know what how the medications and supplements are interacting and all the potential side effects of everything. There are many times even with people that I would like to try just to stop all medications and supplements and start over. There are so many people who come to the hospital that have a laundry list of medications and supplements they're on that it's hard for me to believe that all of those chemicals could not be interacting with one another in an adverse way. Very frustrating to say the least, but also very scary just to stop all meds and supplements!

No real advice here - just thinking out loud and hoping for the best for Max!
Posted by: DancingCavy

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/23/11 10:28 AM

Still thinking of you both and hoping for the best.
Posted by: Braverhund

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/23/11 11:23 AM

Good thoughts for Max today! crossedfingers
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/23/11 11:44 AM

Lisa,

Thinking about you and Max and your effort and dedication and his courage and good nature and charm and beauty-well you get the idea.

He's also kind of a hunk:


Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa






Such a good dog and such a good life!

MJ
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/24/11 12:21 AM

Oh gosh, that picture makes me cry! I wish we were there now, and hoping that we will be able to return. I really couldn't afford that vacation, but SO very glad that we took it anyway! That is one of my favorite pics, thank you Mary Jane!

bianca, I'm keeping good thoughts for your kitty too - I have to go check up on your thread crossedfingers

Jamie and Patti, thank you so much for the good thoughts - all energies appreciated!

He had three bleeds yesterday, but we were able to stop them quickly; he had a rough night though. I took him to work today, and no bleeds. Overall, a better day than yesterday, and tonight he is more comfortable than last night, at least so far.

*IF* he responds to the aggressive doxy dose, then I'm thinking it's a rickettsia disease, similar to RMSF:
http://www.histopathology-india.net/RMSFever.htm
However, it wouldn't be RMSF, since it is thought that you either clear the infection or die, although there are significant neurological lifetime implications in some cases. My stb-ex had a typical skin presentation of one of these diseases after one of our vacations, so it's not to much of a stretch. Kinda scary to read more: http://books.google.com/books?id=QHjt676...mia&f=false

(eta: a person testing positive for 3 rickettsia diseases, put on the same abx protocol that Max is on, interesting!)

Pat, I have done some "no drug" trials, and they don't go well at all. Most of his supplements right now are to balance his homecooked diet, or things like enzymes or probiotics...I do think that there are some significant adverse drug issues - I'm very concerned about his neurotransmitters with some of these drugs, but there's just not much of a choice.

I was a bit concerned about the tramadol though. I have used that to suppress some of the distress symptoms that he has, but sometimes he starts looking at nothing, like something is there, or is very restless, and I can't tell if that's his disease process, or the tramadol. Hopefully I won't have to use it this weekend, and we'll see how he is.

Hoping for a quiet weekend, and the end of near-100 degree temperatures cheers
Posted by: bianca

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/24/11 04:34 AM

Sending my best cool weather thoughts your way. hugging and a gentle hugging for Mr Max.
Posted by: Barb E

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/24/11 10:04 AM

hugging and hugging
Posted by: kelso

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/25/11 01:19 AM

Wanted to add a hugging as well.

That picture is stunning
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/25/11 01:21 AM

Hope you and Max have a good Sunday and the weather cools down!
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/25/11 07:09 AM

Just saying good morning and that's a sincere wish. I hope you enjoy the day together.

MJ
Posted by: LJsMom

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/25/11 08:53 AM

hugging
Posted by: Schnickle Fritz

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/25/11 09:13 AM

hope you have a great day.... it is cooler over here, so perhaps you will get it today!!
Posted by: JeanKBBMMMAAN

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/25/11 09:26 AM

UGH - heat. Hoping for a better, cooler, relaxing day.

There was someone...somewhere...they were on a lot of meds (14?) and they took them off all of them and reintroduced needed ones, one at a time - and they got better. Who was that and what were the details? I will try to think of it - Pat's comment got me thinking about it but that's all I can remember. Not that it will help necessarily! But at least we feel like we are doing something for you and Max.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/25/11 03:38 PM

Yay, thank you, we have a cooler weekend! I was able to get Max out more during the day, and finally able to mow the lawns and have him out and watch him. I almost felt like a normal person there, able to get some of my normal stuff done!!

Well, Max is on abx and pred, and during the day I use Tramadol to decress his BP to reduce a bleed while I am gone. Not really anything that can be taken out of the mix. Toying with adding an acid reducer actually - I have to do something about the stomach inflammation and maybe esophagael (sp?) irritation.

With the increased doxy, more nosebleeds as expected, but they do stop quickly if I get to them right away. I expected that to get worse before it gets better.

He tried to play with toys yesterday, so a very good sign. Too bad I had to stop him because of the nose frown I felt terrible, but, with luck, it will be temporary.

I'm trying to get the pred down. The lack of blood flow to his liver is causing an increase in ALT and GGT, and I read that pred does this specifically, which sucks. If Max had enough blood flowing through his veins, then I bet he would tolerate it better frown If this blood flow problem doesn't get better soon, I suspect we will be in for multi-organ failure at some point - the pancreas took the first hit frown

So far though, he is in good spirits, some rough patches, but he's such a trooper, I'm so very proud of my boy wub
Posted by: Kris

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/25/11 09:00 PM

He IS a trooper and I think he puts an awful lot of trust in you, Lisa. I also think he knows that you won't give up until this is fixed. And that has to help his whole mental attitude.

Glad you had a good weekend. It's getting cooler here too and it sure helps my attitude when it is!

Thinking of you both... hugging
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/26/11 03:33 AM

They sure do understand when you're trying to help them (well, most of the time!).

Thanks Kris hugging
Posted by: bianca

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/26/11 05:33 AM

Lisa does Mr Gorgeous like paddling in water? Wondering if seeing how he can't really play with toys at the moment, he might enjoy a paddling pool? I wouldn't think he could hurt his nose?
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/27/11 02:47 AM

Bianca smile Mr. Gorgeous loves to swim and paddle! There's no place for us to do that though - he's not strong enough for the river, and no pool available. A chlorinated pool might help shrivel that sore up!


If we can get this sore healed up, both of us will have such a HUGE improvement in our quality of ife. My stress level will be helped *immensely*, and he will be able to smell normally on his walks - and I can leave the house without fear!

That said, and I don't want to jinx things, but no bleed today. Have had about 3 bleeds per day since upping the doxy dose, so holding my breath over here....
Posted by: bianca

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/27/11 03:56 AM

Holding my breath too hugging And a gentle pat for Max hugging
Posted by: Qyn

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/27/11 10:16 AM

crossedfingers and toes from me as well. hug
Posted by: Woodreb

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/27/11 10:36 AM

Hoping tha Max has another good day.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/27/11 11:44 AM

Thank you ladies! It's a vitamin C day today smile

Johanna hugging
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/27/11 04:08 PM

Today was infusion #6:


Is it time again, really?


Mom says that this is the perfect picture for today, movement! - I kept moving and tripping over my IV line crazy


What? Watering the plants?


Almonds? Where are those almonds?


Is that a bug?


Don't worry Ma, I got your back, he's behind you watering more plants (more plants!), but I'll make sure you're safe!


More plants!


Almonds? Did you say almonds?


I'd be really really bored if it weren't for the plant guy....who knew they had a service that came in and did all that?






Mom says that on infusion days, my eyes get really watery, and my nose drips, and today, a bit of blood from my nose. Then why am I still so thirsty????


Are we done yet???? Did someone say almonds????


It's nice to be home resting now, after an eventful morning, and now a full tummy. Thanks for keeping me company everybody!!
Posted by: LJsMom

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/27/11 04:26 PM

Max looks much happier today! He's very perky and doesn't look so annoyed by the entire process.

A plant watering person. Gee that might be a good job for me. Then I could get paid to kill someone else's plants.
Posted by: Woodreb

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/27/11 04:30 PM

Max does look much happier today - keep on trucking, Max. And enjoy your almonds. thumbup
Posted by: LukesMom

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/27/11 05:03 PM

Poor Max, he looks like such a good boy and so tolerant of his treatments.
Posted by: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/27/11 05:15 PM

He does seem a bit better (perkier/happier) today.

Keep trucking along Max.
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/27/11 05:32 PM

I think he looks better today as well! groovy Not so sad!

Time to put a few inches of water in the tub and let Max play in there with some toys! Almost as good as a pool.

Maybe messier. fetch
Posted by: arycrest

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/27/11 07:00 PM

wow My gosh he's such a handsome boy ... and so well behaved too!!! Give him some extra hugs from us!!!
Posted by: DancingCavy

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/27/11 07:36 PM

Love his smile. He looks like he's feeling a bit better this go around. I hope it continues.
Posted by: Kris

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/27/11 09:51 PM

Lisa, I think there is a big difference in these pictures and those you posted last time. He looks perkier, happier, brighter-eyed! I'd say that whatever you're doing is working well for him.

Hi Max - you are GORGEOUS!! wub
Posted by: Furonthefloor

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/27/11 10:10 PM

Aww handsome Max, so sorry you're bored, but you are looking marvelous! Hang in there Max & Lisa
Posted by: SeanRescueMom

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/27/11 11:04 PM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
It's nice to be home resting now, after an eventful morning, and now a full tummy. Thanks for keeping me company everybody!!


We're glad you're home too, Max. smile
Lisa, he looks so much better and I'm sure all the TLC you're lavishing on him has worked wonders. hug
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/28/11 12:03 AM

Aw, Max. wub

I hope you have a better week.
Posted by: bianca

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/28/11 04:49 AM

Gosh Max, the plant watering person will want to only visit when you are there to admire you along with all of us wub

I hope you have a better week too hugging
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/28/11 11:38 AM

Lisa,

Whenever you post pictures of your magnificent boy or when you judge a day went 'reasonably' well, the collective relief rings the world.

Thanks for the vitamin C flavored eye candy.

MJ
Posted by: kelso

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/29/11 12:34 AM

Love the pics of Max! He does look like such a good boy
Posted by: bianca

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/30/11 04:36 AM

Just checking in to see how Mr Gorgeous is doing? Oh, and you also Lisa laugh
Posted by: TMarie

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 09/30/11 10:00 AM

Checking in on Max, he is so gorgeous, and does look happier in those photos Lisa.

Hoping the past couple of days have been a bit better.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/01/11 04:40 PM

We were having a pretty good week, and then all heck broke loose on Friday with the nose. I almost thought we were going to get this thing healed finally, darn it.

I left him home alone for a bit (first time all week), and I think he was licking and scratching his groan area (it was pretty bloody) and broke open the nose. I also think that a couple of the supplements that I added back in are making it harder to heal. I think it might be the joint supplements????? This makes no sense, but I'm giving it a trial again to see what happens. I've also found that zymox ear gel on the nose helps (I was worried about ingestion, but at this point....). I'm trying all sorts of things. The nose got a lot better when we tried his new homeopathic remedy, so I guess we'll see what happens when it's time to redose.

I have been a bit frustrated that the antibiotics really aren't helping Max get betting in any quality way. That's not quite true - without them he is very very ill, and a number of things get worse, but, with them, he does not seem to breath better, and doesn't seem to be the key for that part of what is wrong with him.

I've been wondering if the antibiotics aren't going to be the way to get him better. I found this website, and it describes what he is going through very well: http://www.dinet.org/symptoms.htm I'm thinking these are symptoms caused by whatever process is giving him low blood volume, or the appearance of. I also think that I need how to fight disease caused by endotoxins, which is what the bacteria are shedding, and probably what is causing the actual disease.

I have also been wondering if maybe some of his hypovolemia was actual blood loss. His stools had become dark - I figured that it was because his herbs are very black, and I also had started feeding things like olives, beets, etc. However, since treating for an ulcer (zantac and carafate), even with all of those dark things, his stools are looking less black and much more brown. Part of me is really hoping that he had some ulceration from years of doxy. Fistulas are often associatied with ulcerative colitis in humans, so maybe there is a connection. I've mentioned the dark stools to some of the vets before, but I guess it didn't trigger anything to them. Anyway, it seems to be providing him some comfort, and I hope, it will help him in some other ways, ultimately, too!

I learned about heat intolerance - the heat further dilates the blood vessels and makes it harder for the body to circulate the blood.

Also read a study about low blood pressure (or was it low blood volume?), that drinking tons of water helps, but drinking something like clear soup does not. Most of the things I'm finding to help one thing, makes another thing worse, but I'm still looking!

Hoping for healing weekend...took out his glucosamine and chondroitin this weekend - hate doing that to my boy!
Posted by: Woodreb

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/01/11 05:59 PM

Good thoughts from us here in CT for Max, hang in there. hugging
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/01/11 08:54 PM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
We were having a pretty good week, and then all heck broke loose .............Hoping for healing weekend.........


You got more room for that hope?

take care,
MJ
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/01/11 11:45 PM

I hope the weekend improves. So disappointing and scary when things are going well and then take a turn for the worse again. You hang in there, gorgeous Max. And you too, Lisa! hugging
Posted by: kelso

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/02/11 12:04 AM

Originally Posted By: BowWowMeow
I hope the weekend improves. So disappointing and scary when things are going well and then take a turn for the worse again. You hang in there, gorgeous Max. And you too, Lisa! hugging


Ditto! Feel better Max hugging
Posted by: arycrest

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/02/11 12:13 AM

hugging hugging hugging Sending lots of good thoughts and prayers to you and Max!!! hugging hugging hugging
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/02/11 12:14 AM

I seem to be saying thank you a lot, but thank you!

The day started rough, but the evening is better smile
Posted by: Barb E

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/02/11 01:33 AM

hugging and hugging
Posted by: bianca

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/02/11 06:03 AM

Some more hugging coming from down under too. And a gentle pat for Mr Max hugging
Posted by: Qyn

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/02/11 08:19 AM

Originally Posted By: bianca
Some more hugging coming from down under too. And a gentle pat for Mr Max hugging


Me too! hug
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/02/11 10:09 AM

hugging Hugs to Max. Hope this is a better day.
Posted by: DancingCavy

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/02/11 07:11 PM

*HUGS* to you and Mr. Max. Hope the weekend went better.
Posted by: bianca

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/04/11 04:08 AM

Just checking in on our Max hugging
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/05/11 01:03 AM

I've taken the Cosamin supplement out of the diet, and added coconut oil to the mix for things I'm using to treat the nose, and that seems to be helping. The first day with no bleeding since last week, which is a definite plus. I don't quite understand the Cosamin thing, but maybe it's thinning the blood or something - I don't understand. But all heck broke loose when I added it back last week after several days out of the mix. Very confusing!! I have doubled his hyaluronic acid. I know I can't go long without the joint supps though!

I"m looking into supporting him now, fighting the endotoxins that infectious organisms emit. This may or may not be e.coli. It may also be a rickettsia disease, not so different than my long term suspicion. The cooler weather is making him more comfortable, and I hope buys us a bit more time to get this figured out and put a plan in action that starts improving things for him. I can say, I'm learning a lot about septic shock with all the reading I'm doing!

This sounds a lot like what is happening with him, this is from a page on rickettsia infections:

Quote:
Pathogenicity

In their arthropod vectors, the rickettsia multiply in the epithelium of the intestinal tract; they are excreted in the feces, but occasionally gain access to the arthropods salivary glands. They are transmitted to man, via the arthropod saliva, through a bite. In their mammalian host, they are found principally in the endothelium of the small blood vessels, particularly in those of the brain, skin and heart. Hyperplasia of endothelial cells and localized thrombus formation lead to obstruction of blood flow, with escape of RBC's into the surrounding tissue. Inflammatory cells also accumulate about affected segments of blood vessels. This angiitis appears to account for some of the more prominent clinical manifestations, such as petechial rash, stupor and terminal shock. Death is ascribed to damage of endothelial cells, resulting in leakage of plasma, decrease in blood volume, and shock.

It is assumed that the observed clinical manifestations of a rickettsial infection are due to production of an endotoxin, although this endotoxin is quite different in physiological effects from that produced by members of the Enterobacteriaceae. This is inferred, although the toxin has not been isolated, from these facts:

1. IV-injected rickettsia cause rapid death in experimental animals.

2. UV-irradiation of rickettsia diminished their infectivity without reducing toxicity.

3. The use of anti-rickettsial drugs does not prevent rapid death in experimental animals.

4. Antiserum specific for cell wall antigens of the rickettsia prevents the toxic effect.

http://www.atsu.edu/faculty/chamberlain/Website/Lects/Rickett.htm


We're still plugging away here, still hopeful, and, even though having to take Max to work is fraught with frustrations (from his nose, to going without lunch, etc.), I'm glad that he gets some squirrel hunting time, since he doesn't get out much otherwise nowadays. I'm always glad to spend time with my boy wub
Posted by: bianca

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/05/11 04:20 AM

hugging
Posted by: LJsMom

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/05/11 07:57 AM

I'm glad you can understand all that!

Maybe Indy will send Max a squirrel like LJ did with Steel!
Posted by: Woodreb

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/05/11 08:03 AM

No suggestions - but sending you and Max our good thoughts and support. hugging
Posted by: arycrest

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/05/11 02:12 PM

hugging hugging Lisa & Max hugging hugging
Posted by: TMarie

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/05/11 03:10 PM

hugging
Posted by: SeanRescueMom

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/05/11 08:52 PM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
We're still plugging away here, still hopeful, and, even though having to take Max to work is fraught with frustrations (from his nose, to going without lunch, etc.), I'm glad that he gets some squirrel hunting time, since he doesn't get out much otherwise nowadays. I'm always glad to spend time with my boy wub


Hugs and special thoughts across the miles. hug
Posted by: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/05/11 10:30 PM

Lisa, sending you and Max lots of hugs.

Is it possible some thing in the Cosamine supplement is reacting with other stuff. I know that Lakota couldn't and I know Barb E's Dante can't handle chondroitin. I found a supplement that had no chondroitin. Most chondroitin is Sodium chondroitin Sulfate, not sure if the Sodium part would be good or bad for Max.
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/06/11 01:45 AM

Hugs and good thoughts going to both of you!!!!!!
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/06/11 04:40 AM

So far, Monday and Tuesday, only one bleed, and today none. I think the coconut oil is helping it from splitting, and also helping it heal. I tried vit E and other things before, so interesting that this oil seems to be better. The honey is still a lifesaver.

Val, I had remembered that some dogs didn't do well on chondroitin, but I didn't remember which ones. I did buy some straight glucosamine, and may try that - it could even be the manganese or something like that. It could just all be in my head crazy He's pretty achy, so I hope we get some significant healing soon and I can start adding some of the joint stuff back soon. He is fine with the sodium, in fact, I give him extra, he always seems low as part of his disease process.

I discovered that when he looks like he's looking at bugs, or has this spacey look, I think he is checking to see if there is blood spurting from his nose. What a smart boy - I watch him look, and then he stares carefully, and then when he determines he's okay, goes back to what he was doing. I sure hope that he can drop that behaviour at some point in the future!
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/06/11 09:29 AM

Aw, poor Max, checking himself out to be sure nothing is starting to happen. Smart boy.

So good that the last few days are better. thumbup
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/06/11 09:47 AM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
....

I discovered that when he looks like he's looking at bugs....he is checking to see if there is blood spurting from his nose. .....


No surprise there. Max has just learned that Lisa is intent upon promoting the health of her pets and he is doing what he can to help her. Talk about team work.

What a great boy he is.

best, best,
MJ
Posted by: Barb E

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/06/11 01:57 PM

Chondroitin gives Dante soft poops, took me awhile to figure out what it was - couldn't find anything on the 'net that said it could do that. Finally found one website that said it, I changed to Synovi-G3 and all fixed.

*hugging and zooming good thoughts south*
Posted by: LJsMom

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/06/11 08:08 PM

Max is so smart!

We've had good luck with coconut oil here too. It's the only oil that Steel can tolerate.
Posted by: bianca

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/07/11 04:01 AM

Hoping Mr Max had a good day today.
Posted by: Barb E

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/09/11 10:35 PM

Just leaving hugging and ear scritches
Posted by: bianca

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/10/11 03:45 AM

Any news Lisa? hugging
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/10/11 11:27 PM

We are in a bit of a holding pattern here.

There is some granulation and a bit of scabbing on the nose, so maybe this is a sign of progress. It rained today and he tried to dry his head on my pants, and broke open his nose - ugh, just before we were to get in the car and come home from work. They have been very tolerant of us at work, though I know I am pushing it.

He's achey from taking out the joint supplement, so I picked up some straight glucosamine, and we'll see if that doesn't make the nose bleed more. I received his refill on his adequan, so maybe I'll sneak that in a week early.

I was reading the other board briefly, and someone mentioned that broccoli in large amounts is toxic to dogs. I hadn't heard that before - Max gets a lot of broccoli and cauliflower. Everything in moderation and it should be fine, but I learned that it can be a vasorelaxant, making it harder for him to pump and circulate blood. In a dog that doesn't already have this problem, small amounts shouldn't make a difference, but, well, this is Max! Funny how every time I turn around, I find something that is affecting something else.


I'm not sure how his breathing stuff is doing. I thought it was doing better, but the last couple nights have been tough (the broccoli? We'll see!). I've been reading about endotoxins that these infections produce, and vit C keeps coming up as huge. So the infusions perhaps have been huge for him, more than I realized. I'm working on increasing his oral dose. The cooler weather is so much better for him.

He is trying to be more social at work, but I have to stop him because he sticks his nose everywhere. My poor boy! Sure wish that darn nose would heal faster!
Posted by: unloader

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/11/11 12:05 AM

Wishing Max more good healing thoughts!
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/11/11 12:09 AM

Thanks Michael smile
Posted by: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/11/11 12:33 AM

Poor Max and the nose. Lisa how about spinach?

Sending hugs to both you and Max.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/11/11 01:09 AM

Thanks Val, just looked up spinach, and it's a no go - it's a dilator of blood vessels.

Basically, if it's good for high blood pressure, it appears to be bad for Max. Aargh!
Posted by: bianca

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/11/11 04:41 AM

hugging I sure hope taking the broccoli out may help in some way. When are you going to start him back on the glucosamine?

Please give your handsome boy a gentle cuddle from me.
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/11/11 09:02 AM

Lisa,

I'm just thinking about you two. Max's fans are right here with unwavering support.

I'm thrilled that Vitamin C seems to be so helpful for him.

MJ
Posted by: LJsMom

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/11/11 05:05 PM

Could the flax also be a problem? Are you using curcumin?

Maybe you could switch to a different line of work (pole dancer?) that you could wear silky clothes? LOL
Posted by: SeanRescueMom

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/11/11 06:22 PM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
The cooler weather is so much better for him.


Same here, Lisa. Sean usually has fewer flare ups when the temps cool down.
Sending hugs and special thoughts to you and your boy. hug
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/11/11 06:37 PM

Joanne - the flax could definitely be a problem, or it could be a lifesaver, I haven't been able to determine which side it's on. I know it's crucial for things to move through his digestive tract though.

No curcumin, makes his eyes really red, and I think I checked, it's a vasodilator.

LOL, I remember a time when I thought that removing all the cotton from his environment would make a much bigger difference than it did!

Marlene, I love the cool weather. This darn global weather change, Oct and parts of Nov now have these wild 25 degree weather swings - darn 90 degree forecast for this week!
Posted by: SeanRescueMom

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/11/11 09:29 PM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
Marlene, I love the cool weather. This darn global weather change, Oct and parts of Nov now have these wild 25 degree weather swings - darn 90 degree forecast for this week!


Lisa, there's something about the weather/certain times of the year that trigger Sean's flare ups. We just went thru a warm spell but they're predicting rain and cooler temps for the remainder of the week. Autumn is my favorite season. Hope that 90 degree forecast doesn't last too long for Max and you.
Posted by: Woodreb

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/11/11 09:35 PM

Hugs and good thoughts for you and Max.
Posted by: arycrest

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/12/11 12:34 AM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
Joanne - the flax could definitely be a problem, or it could be a lifesaver, I haven't been able to determine which side it's on. I know it's crucial for things to move through his digestive tract though.
Don't know if this will help or not, but I take flax seed oil for my dry eye and when I had surgery last December I had to stop taking it a week prior to the surgery along with aspirin and several other drugs that can cause bleeding.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/13/11 02:08 AM

Gayle, that makes sense - fish oil is a blood thinner, so flax would be too, to some degree.

Thank you Johanna. Max is either getting better, or worse, or not, I'm not yet sure!!

Marlene, let's hope that this Fall is good for us and our furry ones. The squirrels were out and about when we were leaving work today, and the sun had that late afternoon Fall feel to it, it was really neat smile
Posted by: bianca

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/13/11 05:33 AM

hugging and a gentle cuddle for Mr Gorgeous.
Posted by: Woodreb

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/16/11 11:35 PM

Just stopping by to see how you and Max are doing.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/18/11 03:51 AM

Thanks for checking up on us!

I've been busy with work, and Max, and just tired, and behind!

The good news is that his nose has been scabbing up some, and it doesn't spontaneous bleed any more, so there is progress, even if it is slow going.

He had a chiro appt last week. Came home, and promptly flew out of the car, slid on the garage floor, splayed himself, and hit his jaw and head really hard on the floor. It was bad, we just sat there for awhile until we both caught our breath. He was really shaken up frown So he's been very ouchy this week, and tomorrow we go and get him re-adjusted. What a wast of money, during a month when I was really trying to catch up a bit!

He had a vit C infusion last week:




I think the infusions have been keeping him going.


Last week he had more fun huntin' squirrels though. We take the long way to the parking garage when we leave work:

Yes, there is a squirrel up that tree!


There's that darn squirrel! Some days they all hide, when the crows warn them, but there were lots out this day!






There were three up here, but I only see two!


I told Max that he couldn't get there from here!


Hmmmm, where next?






Love that afternoon Fall light:




He was tired, we took the elevator up to the car. He likes watching through the window smile


and a lame cell phone video!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORjw6lPIkP4
Posted by: bianca

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/18/11 04:04 AM

Oh Mr Max you are a dog, not a pussycat cat stalking the squirrels rofl wub

So pleased to hear his nose is on the mend but ouchy about the fall frown hugging for both of you.
Posted by: Barb E

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/18/11 08:42 AM

*Gack* on the fall - that would have really shaken me up!

Yay on the nose - that is very good news

wub on the pictures

hugging to you
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/18/11 09:05 AM

Shoot, where is the Star Trek transporter when precious, ailing creatures need to go from here to there? Actually, Max just needs a personal elevator connecting everything.

I love the squirrel pictures. Max could teach Mars a lot about composure; actually he's doing much better around the little squirts.

thanks for the update and take care,
MJ
Posted by: Kris

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/18/11 10:31 AM

Oh Max, you make me swoon.... wub Gorgeous, plush coat - and those eyes - just make 'ya melt. He looks great, Lisa. You take such good care of him and it shows! Yay for Max and Yay for you!!!

Aren't those squirrels the most brazen things you've ever seen??? They just taunt and tease and seem to know just how close they can get. And I agree - the lighting is fabulous - especially in those two pics around the tree trunk. I was so busy looking at the colors, that I almost didn't see those unusual roots on the tree.

So sorry he took a tumble. That's always unsettling for them and for us... He seems to have rebounded well!
Posted by: Woodreb

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/18/11 10:45 AM

Max - You need to be more careful getting out of the car. Don't give Lisa more to worry about.

Glad to hear that his nose is doing better, even if improvement is slow.

Aodhán used to be fascinated by the squirrels, too. although she would have been yodeling while going after them. And I don't think she would have been quite so composed about it either. For that matter, Caleb would have been carrying on like a loon and pulling to try and get to them.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/18/11 12:29 PM

Max hopes to be feeling better this afternoon thumbup

I wish Max would yodel a bit like Aodhan, or speak on command, but those things were trained out of him at an early age. It's sad really - he has barked a couple of times as an excited speak (different than a real bark), and I could tell it startled him and he was expecting something to happen. I really dislike all the folks that had him before me!

Once he gets re-adjusted, I should get a better sense of how he is actually feeling.

The squirrels - they have no fear here. They've come to within almost a foot of his nose before - which is really hard me, particularly the neck! We have worked hard to teach him the proper composure so we could hunt squirrels together.

Mary Jane, I am glad that Mars is getting better - I remember the days of the lunging, and it's painful and frustrating!
Posted by: arycrest

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/18/11 01:02 PM

Max is such a handsome fellow!!! wub Love his squirrel hunting photos. Faith, The Mighty Hunter, would love to share some of her hunting tips with him on how to catch 'em.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/18/11 01:49 PM

Luckily neither of the dogs have ever caught one! With my luck, Max would come down with a rare squirrel disease crazy

Max says he is very jealous of Faith!
Posted by: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/18/11 02:01 PM

I hope Max feels better later today. It is Tuesday so another round of "C" infusion and a chiro adjustment, correct???

I swear the best thing I taught Lakota was to use the "Pet Ramp", yea the thing is heavy but it saved on my back and splats out of the Suburban.

I don't have enough trees near the house to be worried about squirrels some times this time of year we see a stray that must have gotten lost. But rabbits, it is getting cooler now and they are moving out of the fields looking for shelter for the winter. I like to see them as that means that my feral cats are leaving them alone. So now at night I have to be on bunny watch.
Posted by: LJsMom

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/18/11 03:26 PM

Maybe something like this would help Max when he jumps from the car.

http://www.samsclub.com/sams/shop/product.jsp?productId=107930&navAction=
Posted by: Woodreb

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/18/11 04:32 PM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
Max hopes to be feeling better this afternoon thumbup

I wish Max would yodel a bit like Aodhan, or speak on command, but those things were trained out of him at an early age. It's sad really - he has barked a couple of times as an excited speak (different than a real bark), and I could tell it startled him and he was expecting something to happen. I really dislike all the folks that had him before me!



That's a shame that "talking" was trained out of him. Aodhán's attempts to say hello when I got home from work were very endearing. wub

There were times when it would get a bit excessive and I did work to get it under control - especially when she was excited to go for a walk or go play ball headbang. I got it to be a little quieter, but eventually I figured it was her way of telling me how much she wanted to whatever it was we were doing and why should I stop her from doing that.

Hope Max feels better after his adjustment. Careful getting out of the car - boy.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/18/11 05:21 PM

Originally Posted By: Wisc.Tiger_Val
I hope Max feels better later today. It is Tuesday so another round of "C" infusion and a chiro adjustment, correct???

I swear the best thing I taught Lakota was to use the "Pet Ramp", yea the thing is heavy but it saved on my back and splats out of the Suburban.

I don't have enough trees near the house to be worried about squirrels some times this time of year we see a stray that must have gotten lost. But rabbits, it is getting cooler now and they are moving out of the fields looking for shelter for the winter. I like to see them as that means that my feral cats are leaving them alone. So now at night I have to be on bunny watch.


Val, I used to use a ramp with Max, which worked about 90% of the time. The remaining 10% of the time he tried to jump over the darn thing and ended up doing more damage headbang With my next pup, from day one, I am going to work on using ramps and stairs early!

Last Thursday was infusion day, and I'm spacing them out every 2 to 2 1/2 weeks now. It's a tough balance - he did great with them weekly, but very tough on the bank account. The protocol is that soon he would go to every 3 weeks, then once a month, but I honestly think that it is making a huge difference for him, so I'm not sure what we will do.

Bunnies....Indy loved bunnies, she used to chase them in the field. Max hasn't had that pleasure - I can imagine how your dogs love watching (chasing!) them!
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/18/11 05:23 PM

Originally Posted By: LJsMom
Maybe something like this would help Max when he jumps from the car.

http://www.samsclub.com/sams/shop/product.jsp?productId=107930&navAction=


I use those in the kitchen where he lays while I prep dinner, and in his crate. I could definitely try them where he unloads. I'm not sure it will make a big difference, but it might. He has that bum shoulder....I need an elevator to take him out of the car smile I guess this is where a minivan would be good, but I just don't see myself in a minivan!
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/18/11 05:31 PM

Originally Posted By: Woodreb
That's a shame that "talking" was trained out of him. Aodhán's attempts to say hello when I got home from work were very endearing. wub

There were times when it would get a bit excessive and I did work to get it under control - especially when she was excited to go for a walk or go play ball headbang. I got it to be a little quieter, but eventually I figured it was her way of telling me how much she wanted to whatever it was we were doing and why should I stop her from doing that.

Hope Max feels better after his adjustment. Careful getting out of the car - boy.


Aodhán wub

We were VERY careful getting out of the car today, completely uneventful thumbup

Just about everything that sometimes goes out on him, was out, and his upper neck, C1, C2, was particularly jammed up. He was so happy afterwards, he was prancing. Then he went and smelled under each of the three other treatment doors to smell who was in each room, as we were leaving. Very weird!

I hope in a few days to get a better idea on what is really going on with him, maybe by the weekend. I've been so wrapped up with the nose, that I need to switch gears a bit.
Posted by: DancingCavy

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/18/11 07:25 PM

So glad to hear the great news about his nose. Sorry to hear about his bad fall, though. Poor Max.

I wub his squirrel pictures, though. Those are pretty brave squirrels. They must be like most of the ones we encounter: used to seeing dogs on a leash and thinking they're safe. wink Risa gets to chase them (on leash) to the trees sometimes. I think that's why she's a bit better about not losing her mind and trying to chase them on leash without permission.

Give Max some pets for me.
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/18/11 08:07 PM

Gosh - I am way behind on Max. Sorry he fell, but I am glad that in general he is doing well.

Even when I am not on and posting much, I think of him.

Hugs, Max. hugging
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/18/11 10:12 PM

Jamie, I think that might be true for Max too - he is only allowed to stalk squirrels in a controlled manner. Will definitely pass along the pets smile

Bonnie, no worries! I just posted an update! We so appreciate you thinking of us! Max loves hugs wub
Posted by: Natalie559

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/19/11 09:30 AM

Love the pics of him!
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/22/11 07:30 PM

Thanks Natalie smile

Just a bit of an update on the boy....

His nose continues to heal. I've found that it makes great healing spurts shortly after we have dosed with his homeopathic remedy, and I can use his nose as a bit of a sign when to re-dose. When the nose starts going backwards in healing, then it's time. We just upped his potency to a 200C potency, and, again, I can see progress. Sure wish it weren't so slow though.

I have him weaned down to a very low dose of pred, maybe 2.5 mg every 2nd or 3rd day, still trying to figure out what works best for him. Under the action of his homeopathic remedy, I am able to wean. Then all of a sudden, he starts backsliding and my instinct is that I've taken the pred too low. However, if I re-dose the remedy then, he continues to be okay on the low dose. I guess that's some kind of progress smile

He's still on his multiple abx protocol, doing much better since he was increased to the aggressive dose of doxy. I think he's having some problems with the longterm cipro - will have to make an appt with the internal medicine guy next month to touch bases and see where we go from here.

I'm still working on his digestive tract, and getting the right mix of supplements, so he doesn't have to take so many, now that he appears to be past the acute stage. Now, just trying to fight the infection and also to find a way to stop further damage to his internal organs from lack of blood flow and/or infection. This "slow motion" sepsis is really really tough, probably a losing battle, but we're still trying over here. As long as he is able to still stalk the squirrels, then that's a great sign thumbup
Posted by: arycrest

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/22/11 09:58 PM

That's a great report on Max!!! So glad Max is doing better and that you're able to spot the telltale signs of when he needs something done!!!
Posted by: bianca

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/23/11 04:32 AM

That is really good to hear!
Posted by: Woodreb

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/23/11 09:06 AM

Glad to hear that Max is doing better. hugging
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/23/11 09:55 AM

Keep it up, Max! We all celebrate your good days!
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/23/11 11:09 AM

So glad to hear a good report about Max! Rafi wishes him very happy squirrel hunting.
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/23/11 01:04 PM

It's great to hear a good report about Herr Handsome.

Also, Lisa, the tone of your post is positive, so I really hope that means you feel a little relief.

thanks very much, you two,

Mary Jane
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/25/11 02:46 PM

Thanks everyone, wo both appreciate all the support!

Mary Jane, I'm not sure if it's positive, or a slow adjustment to the "new normal". The nose not spurting blood at every movement is a HUGE relief though.

The nose still bleeds, but not spontaneously, and the healing is getting more robust - he's done some serious biting at his sore back (still from the fall frown ) and the nose has only bled a bit. Significant progress!


Does anyone know anything about "metabolic acidosis"? His bloodwork is heading towards this - increasing anion gap, decreasing bicarb. I remember Plechner mentioning this in our brief conversations, and this was before it became so obvious in the bloodwork.

His condition can cause MA, and MA can make his symptoms worse, so it's a bit circular.

I've tried a bunch of stuff for his stomach, but I think I'm going to try some baking soda therapy, though it can give him loose stools.

I was reading about a young girl that had RMSF, she died of respiratory problems and metabolic acidosis, per the abstract, so I was thinking now would be the right time to try this!
Posted by: arycrest

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/30/11 12:23 PM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
...

Does anyone know anything about "metabolic acidosis"? His bloodwork is heading towards this - increasing anion gap, decreasing bicarb. I remember Plechner mentioning this in our brief conversations, and this was before it became so obvious in the bloodwork. ...

I've tried a bunch of stuff for his stomach, but I think I'm going to try some baking soda therapy, though it can give him loose stools.
...
pumpkinhi How's Max doing?

I hate to keep asking my ignorant questions, but I'm confused. What's the difference between bicarb and baking soda ... I always thought they were one and the same???
Posted by: Braverhund

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/30/11 12:47 PM

Wishing the very best for Max. Sending good vibes for Max! gsdsit
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/30/11 03:30 PM

Thank you Patti! blackcat (that cat is for Max to chase laugh )


Originally Posted By: arycrest
Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
...

Does anyone know anything about "metabolic acidosis"? His bloodwork is heading towards this - increasing anion gap, decreasing bicarb. I remember Plechner mentioning this in our brief conversations, and this was before it became so obvious in the bloodwork. ...

I've tried a bunch of stuff for his stomach, but I think I'm going to try some baking soda therapy, though it can give him loose stools.
...
pumpkinhi How's Max doing?

I hate to keep asking my ignorant questions, but I'm confused. What's the difference between bicarb and baking soda ... I always thought they were one and the same???


I have very little understanding of this! I know that there is some kind of bicarbonate produced in the body, that acts as a buffer to protect the kidneys and keep the body from going too acidic. From reading, it seems that this is produced by the pancreas, and Max's is shot. So, I'm hoping to replace it using plain old baking soda.

I just found this - looks like this therapy might be useful in kidney disease too: http://www.imva.info/news/sodium-bicarbonate-kidney-disease.html

Max has been doing great on the baking soda therapy - his stomach is much less inflamed, and I can tell that he feels better. I may only be able to chip away at the symptoms, but at least it's bringing him a bit of relief!
Posted by: arycrest

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/30/11 05:10 PM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
I have very little understanding of this! I know that there is some kind of bicarbonate produced in the body, that acts as a buffer to protect the kidneys and keep the body from going too acidic. From reading, it seems that this is produced by the pancreas, and Max's is shot. So, I'm hoping to replace it using plain old baking soda.

I just found this - looks like this therapy might be useful in kidney disease too: http://www.imva.info/news/sodium-bicarbonate-kidney-disease.html

Max has been doing great on the baking soda therapy - his stomach is much less inflamed, and I can tell that he feels better. I may only be able to chip away at the symptoms, but at least it's bringing him a bit of relief!
So glad to hear Max is doing great!!!

And thanks for the link, extremely interesting. I especially found this of interest, "The exocrine section of the pancreas has been greatly ignored in the treatment of diabetes even though its impairment is a well documented condition. The pancreas is primarily responsible for the production of enzymes and bicarbonate necessary for normal digestion of food. Bicarbonate is so important for protecting the kidneys that even the kidneys get into the act of producing bicarbonate and now we know the common denominator between diabetes and kidney disease. When the body is hit with reductions in bicarbonate output by these two organs,’ acid conditions build and then entire body physiology begins to go south. Likewise when acid buildup outstrips these organs normal bicarbonate capacity cellular deterioration begins." I'll have to remember to ask my dr if I should be taking bi-carb.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/30/11 05:59 PM

Originally Posted By: arycrest
I'll have to remember to ask my dr if I should be taking bi-carb.


I wonder if it's one of those things that docs aren't "up" on? Sounds like one of those old wives' tales almost, doesn't it?

Yes, Max is doing very well on the baking soda, though not so much in general. Thank goodness for the cooler weather. I actually cry a lot, knowing that this is not going to end pretty, but we are not done fighting - he has such a wonderful spirit.

Someone, way at the beginning of this thread, threw out distemper, which I didn't really see at the time, but I found this great article while researching vitamin D and respiratory disease (it's a really long article if you read all of it): http://www.pet-informed-veterinary-advice-online.com/canine-distemper.html and, reading most of it, I see a lot of *low level* similarities in Max. Makes me wonder if he has something viral, and all this bacterial stuff is secondary.

I was reading up on CLA, a fatty acid, for lung inflammation. It also fights endotoxins, and in one study increased IgA, IgG, and IgM, which are decreased in Max. I'm going to try that on him, and see how it does. If anything dilates the blood vessels too much, then I have problems with him pumping blood, so it's tough.

The CLA, if it works, would be huge. Fish oil suppresses the immune system, so this gives a good alternative for individuals with infection, versus immune-mediated disease.
Posted by: SeanRescueMom

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/30/11 08:46 PM

Lots and lots of hugging
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/30/11 09:54 PM

Oh, Lisa I am so sorry you are crying so much. I fear that all the time spent physically caring for Max may also take the time you should be celebrating him.

He has needed so much care, but look at him. You are the light of his life.

As my dogs age, I find myself spending more time on the floor with them. Before I even get settled, they are flopped down beside me, in awe I think that I came down to their world. smile

I know you are cherishing all the good moments with Mr Max.

hugging

Posted by: GrandJan

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/30/11 10:07 PM

hugging and many, many prayers - for both of you.
Posted by: Woodreb

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/30/11 11:04 PM

hugging grouphug
Posted by: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/30/11 11:17 PM

Lisa, I am sad with you. But as long as Max is with you please please just enjoy every minute that you can. He is stable to making some improvement which is so much better than the downward spiral he was on. Every day is a gift, cherish those gifts.

There are so many of us here throwing hugs, good vibes, healing vibes for Max.
Posted by: Braverhund

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/30/11 11:23 PM

Lisa, I too, am sad with you. It's okay to feel sad. It's also okay to snuggle with Max now, letting him share his special loving energy with you. We draw strength from this-- dogs know this and try their best to share their healing energy with us. You'll be sending him supportive energy too, as you go through this-- together, in love.
Posted by: Schnickle Fritz

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/30/11 11:27 PM

hugs to you...
Posted by: unloader

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/30/11 11:41 PM

Thinking of you and Max. It's so hard when these kids don't feel well! I know some of my stress rubs off, but I try to make each special for Remy. Especially after the scare we had. Life is so fragile at times, but it's amazing how powerful the will to live is.

I think I mentioned distemper a couple months ago, after I first saw the thread. I'll have to read your link tomorrow.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/31/11 03:53 AM

LOL, I used to look young for my age, I'm thinking now I just look old and tired...

I'm having a hard time transitioning, logically and emotionally. I just think what hard life he has had, and I've never figured him out - he breaks my heart.

I am so thankful I've been able to bring him to work and spend that time together, and so grateful, yes, that he isn't downward spiraling. He's having trouble eating and taking his pills lately, I'm just hoping that that doesn't get worse.

Thank you everyone, I will work on the celebration part grouphug
Posted by: bianca

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/31/11 04:12 AM

hugging Lisa, Max is so lucky to have you in his corner, and please know I am keeping you both in my thoughts hugging
Posted by: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/31/11 11:28 AM

Lisa, I know that it is helpful to bounce the health issues here on the board. I know how hard you work with and for Max. Life isn't always best measured in quantity, it is the quality of the time. You can't change Max's past, what is important to him right now is that he has you. Max knows that you are trying very hard to figure out his health problems. There is nothing more a dog could ask for than an owner who is trying so hard to make them healthy and he loves you for that. Just make sure you don't get so wrapped up in the health concerns that you forget about just plan out loving him.
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 10/31/11 01:05 PM

Lisa,

Thinking about the limits of even the best health care, I get emotional and it becomes hard to express myself.

I really hope that no one will be offended by my point of view, but in some ways it is even a sharper pain when the ailing loved one is a dog rather than an adult human. Little children and dogs cannot tell you what hurts or what they want, so the entire responsibility falls on you. Speaking for myself here, at one time you are both worried and in pain about your loved one's illness and thinking as hard as you can about the right course of action. Adult humans can usually express themselves and their wishes and when they can't, they may have left instructions.

Please let your warm side bask in Mr. Max's devotion and your cool side rest just a bit from his complicated treatment. He needs you-yourself-his person. You are human and might need a break.

Please continue to let us know how you feel as well as how Mr. Handsome feels.

Mary Jane
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 11/01/11 03:49 PM

I agree with all that has been written, thank you everyone, great advice to hear as he and I move forward grouphug

A strange thing has been happening with the boy...at home, he is back to barking at most every noise. At school, for the first time, he is starting to become more social, occasionally walking through the rows of students, sitting by different ones. During one class, he walked way to the back of the row, and layed there for awhile, which is very weird, because he likes to lay right in front of the chalkboard, right in my way, during class. (I always have to move him wub )

So, I will take my cue from him, and the help from the forum. Thinking of the words here, I took a risk and today, we took our first walk to the park and back, before we just drove and stayed for a short bit. He had problems breathing, but recovered fairly well, which is very good. So, he might be deteriorating and his bloodwork might be going to heck, but we will still find some joy.

I have a confession though....very neat to hear all the things folks say as we walk by on campus. A colleague told me that when a student saw us the other day, he lit up with a smile, and said "puppy" with great enthusiasm. A student yesterday, as I was walking by: "that's some badd-a$$ dog". And so many just want to come up and touch and pet him, and tell me how much they miss their dog at home. He is a wonderful ambassador for the breed wub
Posted by: unloader

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 11/01/11 03:58 PM

So great to hear Lisa! I loved reading this update. More good wishes for you and Max.
Posted by: TMarie

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 11/01/11 04:07 PM

Nice to read this Lisa! He IS a great ambassador for the breed, no doubt about it.

hugging
Posted by: LJsMom

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 11/01/11 05:21 PM

What a great update! Max sounds very happy and comfortable with himself.
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 11/01/11 08:34 PM

What a wonderful day to have and to remember. I hope you and Max have many more of those! groovy
Posted by: bianca

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 11/01/11 08:49 PM

smile just smile
Posted by: kelso

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 11/01/11 11:06 PM

I agree, what a great update! hugging to you and Max
Posted by: Schnickle Fritz

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 11/01/11 11:30 PM

oh lisa... sounds like a great day.
Posted by: arycrest

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 11/02/11 03:16 AM

Lisa I'm grinning from ear to ear ... your latest update is the best news I've heard in a long time!!! He sounds like he's a new dog!!! hugging
Posted by: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 11/02/11 08:30 AM

Lisa that is good news.

Just a thought here since Max hasn't been that active recently maybe the breathing had nothing to do with illness and more to do with just being out of shape.
Posted by: Natalie559

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 11/02/11 09:13 AM

Happy to read you and Max are still chugging along! So you're a teacher? What subject?
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 11/02/11 11:05 AM

Originally Posted By: arycrest
Lisa I'm grinning from ear to ear ...


ditto,
MJ
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 11/02/11 11:30 AM

Thanks everyone, so nice to just be able to walk my dog smile the cooler weather has been critical! I really hope too for more days like that


Natalie, math crazy

Val, I wish it were just out of shape. Can't remember exactly why the internal med vet said lung inflammation - a combination of things. He really wants to biopsy the lungs, but we both say no way, and it's also dangerous.

He also has that undersized heart from not having enough blood pumping to it. The breathing is what started all the testing last June, though it's been developing since early 2010. He had that back injury and the fistula back then, we figured it was related to that frown

I actually think that the fistula is related to this infection, and the lack of blood flow - all the same thing, with multiple ways his body is expressing it. Still wish I knew *exactly* what has invaded his body - whatever it is, it is very nasty.

And yet another reenforcement, trust your instincts. All those years arguing with the vets over inflammation caused by autoimmune vs infection is the only reason why he is still here.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 11/02/11 11:31 AM

Aack, forgot to say, you guys are all great grouphug
Posted by: Kris

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 11/02/11 03:51 PM

So glad things are better and you can enjoy the beautiful weather and each other... hugging
Posted by: DancingCavy

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 11/02/11 07:53 PM

Mr. Max is the big dog on campus! Glad to hear he's getting out and enjoying himself. *HUGS* to you both!
Posted by: Schnickle Fritz

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 11/02/11 11:16 PM

are you a college math teacher?
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 11/03/11 12:25 AM

Thanks guys, nice when it seems like he's a "normal" dog smile

Schnickle, yes laugh
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 11/03/11 12:32 AM

Hi Lisa,

I understand what you're going through and I really think taking the risk and getting out there with Max is worth it. Maybe it cuts a day or two off of his life but it brings both of you so much joy and that is worth so much.

I'm not really caught up on what's going on (just read the last fews posts) but just wanted you to know that I'm thinking of you and Max and wishing you much more quality time together. hugging
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 11/03/11 01:05 AM

Aw Ruth, you made me cry, I know you've been living this for awhile hugging

Thank you, it means a lot to me.
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 11/03/11 01:48 AM

Really I wish I had taken Cleo outside just for a few minutes on Monday too. Certainly it would have made her exhausted but it gave her pleasure and stimulation and that is so important. When Chama's movement was so impaired by that stupid tumor and her lung problems I took her on little outings. We would stay out for long enough that she had a good time but not so long that she couldn't walk afterwards. It made her so, so happy and I really cherish those memories.

If I were you I would think about some of your and Max's favorite places and just start visiting them, as time allows. Maybe you stay for 15 minutes and maybe you stay for an hour or two but it will be worth it.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 11/03/11 02:19 AM

I remember the outings with Chama wub I wish I would have been able to take Indy out more, though we did stop and enjoy a lot more when we were out. There are always things we will wish we had done differently, but it's awfully hard when you're battling these chronic diseases and flairs, thinking that you can beat it again. And we're not always thinking of everything, under such stress.

Max isn't going to beat this. Over the summer though, he couldn't really handle much of a car ride, and maybe could only walk half a block, so I'm thankful. The squirrel hunting on campus, brings him such joy. I am really fortunate that I have been able to have him with me since I haven't had much time outside of work.
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 11/03/11 02:58 AM

Yes, you're so very lucky to have him with you at work. I had basically moved my office into my bedroom b/c that's where Cleo was spending the majority of her time. Even when she wasn't sitting with me I think we were both comforted by one another's presence.

Enjoy your time together, no matter where that is...that's what really matters. hugging
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 11/03/11 03:51 AM

Originally Posted By: BowWowMeow
Enjoy your time together, no matter where that is...that's what really matters. hugging


Absolutely hugging
Posted by: unloader

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 11/04/11 11:14 AM

I just got an email from the only natural pets about their immunity blends. I saw one that they specifically market for respiratory. Take a peek at it if you haven't already. I don't know anything about this product, just trying to throw out options.

http://www.onlynaturalpet.com/product_detail.aspx?item_guid=d1aa7ba2-3f83-4234-ad91-d1f4c5c0b403
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 11/04/11 11:17 AM

If you're interested in that product I'm pretty sure I have it in my cabinet, from Chama.
Posted by: bianca

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 11/09/11 04:34 AM

How is Max doing?
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 11/10/11 07:04 AM

Aack, michael and Ruth, I read your posts the other day, but had to leave quickly, and completely forgot about it, without the colored envelope to remind me!

Michael, that looks like a very interesting product - even better that it looks like it's not in an alcohol base.

Ruth, if it's been open awhile, is it still good? I have to look at the herbs nore closely and make sure they don't do things like dilate the blood vessels when I get a chance.

Bianca, thanks for asking about the boy smile I've been swamped at work, haven't even had time to post the last infusion pics, and next week we go again.

Max has good days and bad days. The vet/chiro we just saw was very pleased with how he was compared to when she saw him in summer. I had forgotten what a struggle every move was for him. His bloodwork may be getting worse, but at least he is feeling better.

He's starting to have yeast issues - surprise, he's only been on abx since his fistula in 2009. I've been using an herbal and coconut oil, but, after this long, it. Just might not be strong enough, or maybe switch the herbal - hate to think about having to add back the anti-fungal. We'll see about that.

But he's still here smile and some days I understand his process better than others!
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 11/10/11 10:39 AM

Lisa,

Thanks so much for the update. It's really good that one of Max's caregivers saw any improvement since the summer.

Everybody knows that you're juggling all kinds of things-and yet it seems like you always have time to offer helpful suggestions for other people's dogs. So whenever you can stop to tell us about Max, we're grateful (especially grateful if you both are OK)

MJ
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 11/10/11 12:30 PM

Thanks so much MJ hugging

I tried to feed him off a plate a couple of times, but he scrapes his nose on the food, so we are still spoon feeding, what a PIA. He agrees!

The nose has stopped healing, we're at a standstill, so it's probably time for another dose of his homeopathic remedy. Luckily though, no real bleeding nose episodes for quite some time - it just oozes some blood.

He was satrting to throw up with the doxy tablets - not surprising for him. Will try all capsules, instead of the 1/2 and 1/2 I was doing. The capsules are a special order script from the Derm (fistula), I have to call and see if she cares if I use twice as much.

The baking soda for the gut has been a life saver for him. I've tried all sorts of things, and nothing has really helped like that has.

I'm trying some CLA fatty acid for him - it is supposed to help with lung inflammation and not suppress his immune system, and help with endotoxins. After I see how that goes, I think I will look into that product that Michael linked.
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 11/10/11 01:12 PM

What a delicate balancing act. hugging

I have not had the experience of herbs or homeopathic remedies going bad. I would think they would be ok because it's preserved in something (alcohol or glycerine). I will check for a date though.
Posted by: unloader

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 11/10/11 01:16 PM

You mentioned something about alcohol, Lisa:

"New Improved Formula! In our new formula the herbs are distilled in alcohol instead of glycerin, which is generally considered to preserve more of the beneficial qualities of the herbs. And because alcohol is not sweet like glycerin, we've added agave nectar (a natural sweetener) to the formula to make it more palatable for dogs and cats."

http://www.onlynaturalpet.com/product_detail.aspx?item_guid=d1aa7ba2-3f83-4234-ad91-d1f4c5c0b403
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 11/10/11 01:43 PM

Well phooey on the alcohol! I looked at the ingredient list and saw only the glycerin, thanks for finding that!


Both he and I are taking some tick herbs, and they are in alcohol, so I'm concerned about too much.

When he was younger, he responded very well to Goldenseal.

Lots to ponder for our next move over here!
Posted by: Braverhund

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 11/10/11 02:26 PM

Popping in to send positive vibes and thoughts to both you and Max. Here's hoping that the goldenseal will again be well-tolerated by Max The Handsome. Wishing Max wellness! gsdhead
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 11/10/11 08:04 PM

Thanks Patti, we will just keep tweaking away ;D
Posted by: arycrest

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 11/10/11 10:29 PM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
...
Max has good days and bad days. The vet/chiro we just saw was very pleased with how he was compared to when she saw him in summer. I had forgotten what a struggle every move was for him. His bloodwork may be getting worse, but at least he is feeling better.
...
But he's still here smile and some days I understand his process better than others!
Glad to hear Max is feeling better ... that's the important thing!!!

IMHO you're doing an amazing job managing his problems ... I know it's gotta be like walking on a slippery tightrope!!!

hugging hugging Lisa & Max hugging hugging
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 11/10/11 11:02 PM

I would guess the stuff I have is preserved in glycerin but I will check.
Posted by: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 11/10/11 11:08 PM

Lisa, I am glad that Max is moving better. Sending some good vibes to Max.

I tried spoon feeding with the dogs from time to time when they are sick and just give up and use my hand.
Posted by: bianca

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 11/11/11 04:23 AM

Lisa I'm so glad that Max is feeling a bit better hugging
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 11/11/11 01:30 PM

Thank you Gayle, that means a lot hugging Bianca, thanks too, I will pass along well wishes to the boy wub

Ruth, I appreciate it!

Val, I thought about hand feeding. But I do have to grind his food so he can digest it, and then I have his mineral mix and flaxseed good, it would be an awful mess. I would do it if I had to, hopefully I won't have to!
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 11/11/11 01:47 PM

If you can get a big syringe, that is the easiest way to hand feed messy stuff.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 11/11/11 02:53 PM

Hopefully we won't get to needing that!
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 11/11/11 04:53 PM

Step by step, day by day. Mr Max seems to be improving - perhaps not as quickly as we might wish, but still going forward.

Hugs, Mr Handsome. hugging
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 11/11/11 05:11 PM

Hugs delivered!

I think we've reached a stalemate, steps backward, steps forward, overall forward.

I'm a bit lost in the direction I should be going with him, don't know if this is it, just maintenance, or if we can move further forward, which seems a bit unrealistic, considering his state.

But, very excited to say, I now have an appt scheduled on the 22nd with a new communicator. One of her specialities is supposed to be medical intuitive, and she comes highly recommended from a long time online friend.

crossedfingers

!
Posted by: TMarie

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 11/11/11 05:12 PM

hugging Lisa! This sounds like good news. Baby steps!
Posted by: LJsMom

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 11/11/11 06:03 PM

Animal communicator! thumbup
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 11/11/11 08:26 PM

Lisa,

I am skeptical about animal communicators-but people I respect have learned something there-so I must be wrong.

Maybe I can try to be open-minded for the sake of your beautiful boy,

MJ
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 11/11/11 08:29 PM

Quote:
But, very excited to say, I now have an appt scheduled on the 22nd with a new communicator. One of her specialities is supposed to be medical intuitive, and she comes highly recommended from a long time online friend.


I am leaning more that way with Skye. It's mainly a matter of being sure I pick a time she can consult with me when it is quiet and peaceful. The next two weeks have 6 days of AAT testings and graduations, plus the visits I make.

Please let me know how it goes.
Posted by: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 11/11/11 09:39 PM

Lisa, until I figured out about ABX and Probiotic timing for Lakota he was on home cooked mush, either the DH and I would sit down with the bowl and big towel. Honestly at times I was more like shoving the food in his mouth. Yes it was a mess but the things we don't do for our animals.

I feel there are certain people that are blessed with the gift to communicate with animals. On a rare occasion in my life it has happened for me with dogs that I didn't have physical contact with. I wish I had more time in my life to pursue that, but I don't.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 11/11/11 11:15 PM

Well, if anyone is a good test for a medical intuitive, it would be Max wub I will definitely update. I have a million thoughts running through my head - it would be nice for some direction.

Val, I can just picture the sight of "mush time" shocked

Val, I know you've had some connections with dogs on the forum (maybe elsewhere too!), amazing how that works. I've had that only rarely, not enough to think I could pursue it.
Posted by: Qyn

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 11/12/11 03:50 AM

hugging to Max and, of course, to you. Glad to read any good news, anytime.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 11/12/11 01:56 PM

Thank you Qyn smile
Posted by: kelso

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/echocardiogram - 11/13/11 02:31 AM

hugging
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Max at Work - 11/13/11 06:10 PM

Still dealing with the nose, taking Max to work. Someone there took these pictures with her cell phone while I was working...

Huh, who me?


She makes me lay all the way over here, it's not much fun:


I prefer to get up, and lay right in her way, so she has to step over me to write on the chalkboard:


I don't mind when she steps over me and gets chalk dust all over my coat - I just snooze:


Scholarly Dog wub
Posted by: LifeAsMe

Re: Max at Work - 11/13/11 06:16 PM

He's very handsome!
Posted by: GrandJan

Re: Max at Work - 11/13/11 06:18 PM

Ha ha - too cute! But someone is getting "the look" in that first picture! rofl
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Max at Work - 11/13/11 06:22 PM

Originally Posted By: GrandJan
....someone is getting "the look" in that first picture! rofl


In the first picture - that's the student trying to get the pictures for me - she kept talking to him funny, but he wouldn't hold still long enough for her to get a really nice shot!

Thanks you two!
Posted by: LJsMom

Re: Max at Work - 11/13/11 07:18 PM

I absolutely love the last picture!
Posted by: GrandJan

Re: Max at Work - 11/13/11 07:23 PM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
...but he wouldn't hold still long enough for her to get a really nice shot!


Yeah, Mom - "Enough is enough, period!"
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Max at Work - 11/13/11 08:05 PM

Originally Posted By: LJsMom
I absolutely love the last picture!
Me too ... he looks so alert, like today's lesson is really fascinating!!! thumbup
Posted by: Woodreb

Re: Max at Work - 11/13/11 08:27 PM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
Scholarly Dog wub


wub Handsome Max

Aodhán used to always pick spots to lay that were right where I needed to be when I was doing something.
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: Max at Work - 11/13/11 09:48 PM

Such a handsome boy! wub
Posted by: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: Max at Work - 11/13/11 10:41 PM

Lisa, Max looks good right now. The nose is looking better.
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: Max at Work - 11/13/11 10:49 PM

Max looks so much better - love the scholarly dog shot. wub
Posted by: bianca

Re: Max at Work - 11/14/11 03:51 AM

wub Another one who adores the last pic! His nose does look heaps better!
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Max at Work - 11/14/11 08:52 AM

Max's nose and eyes look much better-it's easier to see his brave spirit shining through his eyes.

step by step,
MJ
Posted by: Qyn

Re: Max at Work - 11/15/11 06:22 AM

Thanks for the update and new pictures. To me, he looks like he is feeling a bit better - maybe it is just being at work with you!
Posted by: Braverhund

Re: Max at Work - 11/15/11 12:31 PM

Handsome Max at work looks like a very loved dog! wub
Posted by: kelso

Re: Max at Work - 11/18/11 11:37 PM

Not sure how I missed those pics of Max! They are great. That is neat you take him to class smile
Posted by: Furonthefloor

Re: Max at Work - 11/18/11 11:47 PM

Max hard at work. I would have paid better attention in school if there were a handsome Max at the front!
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Max at Work - 11/19/11 02:17 PM

Thanks laugh

Being at work I think is very good for him. The exercise and social interaction. Pretty soon though, I will be leaving him home some days frown We'll both miss that! My students will too - they like having him there, at least most of them seem to.
Posted by: bianca

Re: Max at Work - 11/29/11 04:46 AM

Lisa, just checking in on how Mr Gorgeous is doing?
Posted by: LJsMom

Re: Max at Work - 11/29/11 05:53 AM

Mr. Gorgeous is a perfect name for Max!
Posted by: Woodreb

Re: Max at Work - 11/29/11 09:32 AM

Was going to ask the same question - how is Max doing?
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Max at Work - 11/29/11 01:51 PM

I'm too reticent to ask about Max (Wolf taught me a lot about reticence), but if Lisa could find time to post, I'd really be glad to hear about Mr. Gorgeous.

Mary Jane
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Max Update - 11/29/11 03:28 PM

As always, I so appreciate you thinking of my boy. I am long overdue on a decent update, my fault. I am either fighting some kind of bug, or just dealing with pure exhaustion wink

Max is better in some areas, worse in others. He is happy and social and always willing to eat though, so those are very good things. In fact, he's been incredibly social lately. But he's been having more nervous system attacks, almost like panic attacks.

His breathing is getting worse again, seeing more "whole body shake" with the heart beat again. Messing with abx dosages, trying to find a good balance. I am not sure I expected him to still be here at this point, so the next step is a bit more elusive. Also gotta figure out what I will be able to continue to financially support.

I've fallen behind with his homeopathic treatment, I'm hoping after the appt this afternoon, we'll get some of this backsliding turned around. I ordered that respiratory support last night that unloader linked to earlier.

I spoke with the animal medical intuitive. The bad thing is that it looks like it's not meant to be that I will ever know exactly what is going on with him, just didn't get that info from her.

The interesting part is that she mentioned a few things structurally that were confirmed by the chiro today. Also mentioned a spider bite he had about 6 months ago that caused him then (and now) neuro issue. It is true that I found something that I thought was a bite !out 5 months ago, that caused his whole leg to discolor, still having troubles from it. She described in detail how he felt dizzy from the bite.
I asked specifically about tick bites about 5 years ago. I know he has had at least one engorged tick. She said she didn't see that, but saw a bite from some weird winged insect probably in the mosquito family, with the implication that that caused him trouble. I didn't ask exactly the right questions to get the most out of the session.

More to update, but enough words for now!
Posted by: Barb E

Re: Max Update - 11/29/11 05:26 PM

hugging ...a bunch of 'em
Posted by: JakodaCD OA

Re: Max Update - 11/29/11 05:32 PM

double hugs to you both,,the pics of him look good, and its always a good sign when they eat:)))
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: Max Update - 11/29/11 05:56 PM

Oh, Max - hugs to you and mom. hugging

Our dogs seem to be struggling with steps forward, then back.

I hope Max doesn't get too anxious. I have seen first hand how sad and scary that can be.

I will be back checking on you both but Lisa, you need to get some rest!
Posted by: bianca

Re: Max Update - 11/29/11 06:03 PM

hugging from me to you both.

I'm sorry if I pressured you into an update, I just wanted you to know that you are in my thoughts. Take care of you too hugging
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Max Update - 11/29/11 07:50 PM

Oh, no, no, no pressure!! I've been meaning to update, just not sure what I'm doing over here rofl

I will say, I always feel better after talking with the homeopathic vet. She is thinking that the remedy that we've been using, is no longer helping very much, because it is better suited for an acute situation, and now we have moved past that and need to treat the chronic disease. Now, how cool is that, really, if you think about it? We have got him past the acute crisis, and now we have to focus on the chronic disease.

Max did have 7 weeks of the aggressive dose of doxy, which is a total of 800 mg total per day. He couldn't tolerate it longer. Poor guy, he's been on abx since 2009 frown I now have him weaned down to 300 mg total per day of the doxy. He's still on the cipro - about 3 days off of that, and his nose starts going haywire. Then there's a whole bunch of other stuff.

The vet thinks that there is a good chance that, because of Max's extreme hypersensitivities, that he's actually probably allergic to the actual bacteria. I know that they can be allergic to the stuff that bacteria emit too. The internal med guy had commented about something like this, so it's looking like both sides are converging to this same idea. Weird, huh? Infection is bad enough.....but being allergic to the infection crazy
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: Max Update - 11/29/11 10:02 PM

Quote:
Now, how cool is that, really, if you think about it? We have got him past the acute crisis, and now we have to focus on the chronic disease.


When viewed that way, it certainly is cool! It has been a long road of reacting and sorting out. Much better to be able to monitor and maintain. I think Mr Max has come a long way.

It may be restful to slow down and enjoy the progress for a little while!
Posted by: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: Max Update - 11/29/11 10:19 PM

Lisa, It is a great advancement that you guy him through the Acute phase and now need to treat the chronic phase.

I think the panic attacks are from the changes in Meds, just my gut feeling. I don't know if you have tracked that.
Posted by: Braverhund

Re: Max Update - 11/29/11 10:23 PM

Lisa, sounds like you have some good, supportive vets on Max's side. here is hoping that Max feels well, does well. crossedfingers crossedfingers crossedfingers Wishing Mr. Handsome only good things! fetch
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Max Update - 12/01/11 07:23 PM

Thanks you guys!

Val, I think the panic attacks are a neurotransmitter problem, and you are probably right, that it involves the drug issue, and maybe even, probably some of the supplements too. I think the other day was caused by a one day trial of l-glutamine. Who the heck reacts to l-glutamine? Well, Max of course. I had stopped it quite awhile ago, but forgot that I tested it that day. I think the tramadol, which I've been trying to give regularly, might play a role here. I am having trouble finding something to relieve his pain, that doesn't mess with something else. Going to try DLPA. Again, but worried about the transmitter problem.
Posted by: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: Max Update - 12/02/11 12:59 AM

Lisa I am going to suggest some out of the meds/supplement box for Max.
Light Relief

http://amzn.to/sCiZHu

Large Pad for Light Relief

http://amzn.to/vLUZXP

Not sure if it would help where he is sore or not. Heck I have been thinking about trying one for me.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Max Update - 12/02/11 01:31 AM

Originally Posted By: Wisc.Tiger_Val
Lisa I am going to suggest some out of the meds/supplement box for Max.
Light Relief
<iframe src="http://rcm.amazon.com/e/cm?t=gershehomfor-20&o=1&p=8&l=as1&asins=B000GAAANG&ref=qf_sp_asin_til&fc1=000000&IS2=1&lt1=_blank&m=amazon&lc1=0000FF&bc1=000000&bg1=FFFFFF&f=ifr" style="width:120px;height:240px;" scrolling="no" marginwidth="0" marginheight="0" frameborder="0"></iframe>
http://amzn.to/sCiZHu

Large Pad for Light Relief
<iframe src="http://rcm.amazon.com/e/cm?t=gershehomfor-20&o=1&p=8&l=as1&asins=B001HP5BM4&ref=qf_sp_asin_til&fc1=000000&IS2=1&lt1=_blank&m=amazon&lc1=0000FF&bc1=000000&bg1=FFFFFF&f=ifr" style="width:120px;height:240px;" scrolling="no" marginwidth="0" marginheight="0" frameborder="0"></iframe>
http://amzn.to/vLUZXP

Not sure if it would help where he is sore or not. Heck I have been thinking about trying one for me.


That's an interesting product! I will have to think on that, but the price is doable if it works. I have a red light acupuncture unit (not infrared), that helps a lot on just sore areas, but it's not very deep, and doesn't cover a large amount of area.
Posted by: bianca

Re: Max Update - 12/02/11 03:27 AM

My parents have an old infra-red and uv heatlamp that is from the early 70's and it still works, Dad really thinks it helps him with aches and pains.
Posted by: SeanRescueMom

Re: Max Update - 12/03/11 07:26 PM

Lisa, no advice, just lots of hugs. hugging hug hugging
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Max Update - 12/08/11 04:38 PM

Thank you SRM, hugs ALWAYS help!

So, when I took Max to the vet this last summer, he could hardly walk from the waiting room to the exam room, he was so weak. That vet, that has seen Max before on several occassions, was right on it, saying to get him to a specialist right away, and she went asking around for the right one that could be trusted.

Being able to take him to work with me has been a life saver I think, it has kept him moving, important for his digestive process that has been so weak. Of course, the antibiotics and vitamin C infusions have been critical. He's responded very well to the homeopathic remedies also - I so like that vet, she is so good.

I really pushed it this term, taking him to work most days. Remembering today, at the beginning of the term, how weak he was. Climbing the stairs to class, walking down the hallway, head down, just making it to the room, and then lying down.

Sometime, during the middle of the semester, it got easier for him. He walked lighter, he insisted on longer walks when the day was done to chase the squirrels.

And now, LOL, he loves the hallway...students sit there waiting for class to start, or just wroking in the hallway. They are at eye level with him, so he feels the need to greet each one them (though I try to curb that!), sometimes sticking his nose in their work or laptop, sometimes right in their faces with sloppy kisses, and almost always smelling their backpacks for food. When someone wants to pet him, he has such joy, so happy that someone likes him wub When he enters the room he walks around and greets certain students. Unfortunately, he is barking more when someone comes to my office door shocked

I did not expect him to be here now, and I'm so glad that I haven't lost him. His bloodwork has been going south for awhile, and although I haven't seen it lately, I don't really expect that to turn around much. I used to make sure I had a cell phone with me even on short walks, in case he didn't make it home. But now we can go on longer walks, and I probably don't need that cell phone with me now, certainly not for the shorter walks.

So, as we were walking today, I was thinking about this. Thankful to have my boy still here, and thankful to see that he is stronger!
Posted by: Natalie559

Re: Max Update - 12/08/11 04:49 PM

This is good news Lisa- I am happy for you and Max. Wishing you continued improvement!
Posted by: Kris

Re: Max Update - 12/08/11 06:16 PM

This is great news Lisa! I think taking him to school is such a big thing. He's getting attention, more alert - so many things to stimulate him. Hoping too that he continues to improve and is with us for a long, long time!!
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: Max Update - 12/08/11 06:33 PM

Quote:
So, as we were walking today, I was thinking about this. Thankful to have my boy still here, and thankful to see that he is stronger!


Yes! This is good. It must be great to think about the strides Max has made over the fall months. I am sure he enjoying life, his one on one time with you and all those great friends when he goes with you to work!

hugging
Posted by: DancingCavy

Re: Max Update - 12/08/11 06:55 PM

Such great news!
Posted by: LJsMom

Re: Max Update - 12/08/11 07:11 PM

This is great to hear!
Posted by: Braverhund

Re: Max Update - 12/08/11 07:13 PM

Thanks for the good update on Max! Stronger is good! thumbup They bring us so much love and joy. Wishing you good times with Mr. Handsome!
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: Max Update - 12/08/11 07:46 PM

So glad to hear that Max is enjoying life again! thumbup
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Max Update - 12/08/11 07:46 PM

christmastree Can't ask for any better news than this ... so happy for both you and Max!!!
Posted by: JeanKBBMMMAAN

Re: Max Update - 12/08/11 08:17 PM

happyboogie
Posted by: Kayos

Re: Max Update - 12/08/11 08:40 PM

May he spend many days with you at school. :thumb up: Really good news I think! groovy
Posted by: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: Max Update - 12/08/11 08:49 PM

Yea Lisa that is good news. party The stronger part is good, I think he really enjoys going to school with you and I hope that can continue.
Posted by: SeanRescueMom

Re: Max Update - 12/08/11 09:02 PM

Thanks, Lisa, it was awful at work today but reading your post made my day. groovy
Posted by: Woodreb

Re: Max Update - 12/08/11 09:25 PM

Originally Posted By: PositiveDog
Quote:
So, as we were walking today, I was thinking about this. Thankful to have my boy still here, and thankful to see that he is stronger!


Yes! This is good. It must be great to think about the strides Max has made over the fall months. I am sure he enjoying life, his one on one time with you and all those great friends when he goes with you to work!

hugging


Couldn't agree more - it's good to hear that he is stronger and enjoying himself.
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Max Update - 12/08/11 09:31 PM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
Thankful to have my boy still here


Lisa,

It's so great to read this. You do everything you can to improve/preserve Max's health-and you still have enough respect for the moment to notice its passing.

I do wish I had known enough/observed enough to take every second of Wolf in. I thought I was alert-but I could have done more.

Lisa, no one will ever say that you could have done more.

Happy times with your boy!

Mary Jane
Posted by: Barb E

Re: Max Update - 12/08/11 10:43 PM

I can't even begin to tell you how much this post made me smile, or how thankful I am that you still have your boy and he's stronger.

hugging


Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
Thank you SRM, hugs ALWAYS help!

So, when I took Max to the vet this last summer, he could hardly walk from the waiting room to the exam room, he was so weak. That vet, that has seen Max before on several occassions, was right on it, saying to get him to a specialist right away, and she went asking around for the right one that could be trusted.

Being able to take him to work with me has been a life saver I think, it has kept him moving, important for his digestive process that has been so weak. Of course, the antibiotics and vitamin C infusions have been critical. He's responded very well to the homeopathic remedies also - I so like that vet, she is so good.

I really pushed it this term, taking him to work most days. Remembering today, at the beginning of the term, how weak he was. Climbing the stairs to class, walking down the hallway, head down, just making it to the room, and then lying down.

Sometime, during the middle of the semester, it got easier for him. He walked lighter, he insisted on longer walks when the day was done to chase the squirrels.

And now, LOL, he loves the hallway...students sit there waiting for class to start, or just wroking in the hallway. They are at eye level with him, so he feels the need to greet each one them (though I try to curb that!), sometimes sticking his nose in their work or laptop, sometimes right in their faces with sloppy kisses, and almost always smelling their backpacks for food. When someone wants to pet him, he has such joy, so happy that someone likes him wub When he enters the room he walks around and greets certain students. Unfortunately, he is barking more when someone comes to my office door shocked

I did not expect him to be here now, and I'm so glad that I haven't lost him. His bloodwork has been going south for awhile, and although I haven't seen it lately, I don't really expect that to turn around much. I used to make sure I had a cell phone with me even on short walks, in case he didn't make it home. But now we can go on longer walks, and I probably don't need that cell phone with me now, certainly not for the shorter walks.

So, as we were walking today, I was thinking about this. Thankful to have my boy still here, and thankful to see that he is stronger!
Posted by: kelso

Re: Max Update - 12/09/11 12:03 AM

thumbup hugging So great to read the update!
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Max Update - 12/09/11 01:11 AM

Thank you everyone! It's so nice to have some good news to report smile

I know he's still very sick, but he feels so much better, now we just have to learn to enjoy things on his new terms, and work on extending that time.

Next term he will have to stay home most days, so I will have to find ways to get him out and about. For some reason, going to work, he doesn't freak in the car, like he does anytime we go anywhere else. How weird is that?

Mary Jane, I have no doubt, when everything is said and done, I will still have at least some doubts...I think that's the nature of things. But after losing Indy last year, I knew I had to give this fight absolutely everything I could reasonably muster. I am fortunate that I found the right people around me to help.

For now, I am going to have to find new ways for me and the boy to enjoy our time together here smile
Posted by: bianca

Re: Max Update - 12/09/11 04:03 AM

Oh Lisa this is just wonderful to read! I am so happy for you both smile
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Max Update - 12/09/11 11:37 AM

Yes! I am very cautiously happy laugh

No Max today, feels very weird! I gave him a tramadol before I left, hope he gets a good rest *zzzzzzz*
Posted by: LJsMom

Re: Max Update - 12/09/11 02:16 PM

He's going to be super happy to see you when you get home!
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Max Update - 12/09/11 10:55 PM

He was very excited, not sure what to do with himself. I have to wait nearly an hour for him to catch his breath after that excitement, but then we were able to go for a walk fetch
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Max Update - 12/11/11 05:08 AM

Tripped over this looking for some other things...I think that this is what is happening to Max's liver at some level (perhaps not as progressed as described here), due to lack of blood flow, and his version of septic shock:

http://www.mayoclinicproceedings.com/content/81/9/1232.full

I think I won't run any bloodwork for awhile. He feels so much better, and there's not really anything I can do differently at this point. I think I will work on supporting the heart and lungs a bit more now. And of course, continuing with the vitamin C infusions, though I think I can finally go from every 2 weeks to hopefully every 3 weeks.
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Max Update - 12/11/11 06:55 AM

I'm so glad he's doing better ... will continue to keep him in my prayers!!!
Posted by: Qyn

Re: Max Update - 12/11/11 08:00 AM

Happy to read Max is feeling so much better and he is enjoying having this time with you. I read this thread all the time and think I have posted but I then see that I haven't. Lisa be assured I am always thinking of you both. hugging
Posted by: JakodaCD OA

Re: Max Update - 12/11/11 08:21 AM

add to that happy dance!!
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: Max Update - 12/11/11 09:42 AM

Quote:
He feels so much better, and there's not really anything I can do differently at this point.


I think you have both earned some time to just breathe and enjoy life.

I can just see Max doing his happy dance for you when got home. wub And possibly giving you 'that look' for not taking him along in the first place. smile

It does my heart good to hear Max is doing better today. One paw at a time!
Posted by: Woodreb

Re: Max Update - 12/11/11 12:48 PM

Good to hear that Max is feeling better. As Bonnie said - one paw at a time.
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Max Update - 12/21/11 01:40 PM

Lisa, just checking, hope you and Max are still doing well!!!
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Max Update - 12/22/11 01:38 AM

Thank you for asking Gayle!

Something weird is going on with his digestive system, haven't figure it out yet.

We did take a long walk yesterday, and it was special, because we were able to make it down to the river. I didn't think we'd ever get down there again, so it was great, and I was very happy, and he was beyond happy. I took some pictures:
http://germanshepherdhome.net/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/200902#Post200902

Something very bizarre is going on.

When I talked with the communicator, she mentioned a problem that he had with his left SI joint in his low back, a chronic thing, that twisted that side, that flairs up once in awhile. Also mentioned an issue with his right paw.

I knew about both of those things, but they certainly haven't been on my radar with all his serious issues. Even his back, it's usually his right SI joint. But when we went to the chiro just after that phone call, his left SI was out, his paw actually adjusted too. Okay. cool.

Well, after that, he started chewing at that left SI joint off and on. Figured the next chiro appt would resolve that, as it usually does when he starts gnawing at his back. The chiro last week said that he was more balanced than he usually is, did the adjustment, and that was that.

Since then, he is chewing a little bit at that left SI joint, but now he's creating a hotspot at that humpy part in the spine, about halfway between the sacrum and the bottom of the ribcage. Right on the spine. Very weird. Somehow, that whole process, has triggered some sort of movement. I guess we'll see where that leads us!

Talked with the homeopathic vet, she is redoing his workup to see if his remedy still fits. If it does, I'm guessing we'll go up in potency.

Upon movement, still has trouble breathing, I can hear the hollow breaths, but he doesn't sit and pant for an hour or more anymore, which is great. I'm trying to get to a minimum dose on his antibiotics. I think we've come to the conclusion, that he has severe hypersensitivity syndrome (LOL, I just made that name up shocked ) - he seems to be allergic to the bacteria, it's toxins, probably some of the antibiotics to some degree, in addition to all his environmental and food allergies.

But I will have some time with him now during semester break - looking forward to it!
Posted by: bianca

Re: Max Update - 12/22/11 06:51 AM

Lisa did you ever try(find) the infra-red/uv light?

Poor Max, a hotspot is the last thing he needs frown Hoping the homeopathic vet can work something out to help in that area hugging
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Max Update - 12/22/11 08:53 AM

Lisa and Max have a really long road to (moderate) health.

We can see what he looks like on his uphill climb, working with some effort, firmly held by Lisa.

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa





.

Lisa, I hope the extra time together during your break is healing for you both.

MJ
Posted by: Barb E

Re: Max Update - 12/22/11 09:12 AM

hugging to you and ear scritches to Max
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Max Update - 12/22/11 01:05 PM

Thanks bianca smile I haven't found that laser thingee, waiting for a few bucks open up. Looking at taking an extra tax hit of a couple hundred dollars a month too if things don't go right on this side of the pond - not good.

He slipped when he suddenly lunged toward a cat on a walk last night. So, now he is working on three spots, those two above, and one on his right side. I'll get him to the chiro Tues, but it's frustrating!

Mary Jane, yes, great imagery on this long battle. The perfect pic to illustrate!

Does anyone know if 2.5mg of pred every other day is enough to cause some weight gain? He's getting heavier, which really isn't good, but I'm having a hard time thinking it's the food? I should maybe ask the nutritionist that help with the diet if there's any way he's getting too much food. It can't feel good to carry that extra weight, but I don't want to cut back.

Barb, hugs ALWAYS make things better smile
Posted by: Woodreb

Re: Max Update - 12/22/11 01:21 PM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
...Does anyone know if 2.5mg of pred every other day is enough to cause some weight gain? He's getting heavier, which really isn't good, but I'm having a hard time thinking it's the food? I should maybe ask the nutritionist that help with the diet if there's any way he's getting too much food. It can't feel good to carry that extra weight, but I don't want to cut back.

...


Lisa, I used to have Rica on 5 mg of pred every 3 days to help her with her HD (I'm pretty sure I'm remembering the dose correctly). It made her hungry - she was my chow hound - to the point where I had to get innovative on how to keep her out of the container I used to store their food. But as long as I kept her out of mischief (so to speak) I didn't have problems with weight gain. And as her hips got worse, I was able to get her to lose a couple of pounds without too much trouble.

Do you have any idea what Max's calorie intake is on his diet? That info coupled with how active/inactive he is is where I would start.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Max Update - 12/22/11 01:52 PM

Johanna, that's good to know.

His diet was formulated for lamb and beef, but he's doing better on all beef, so I'm thinking that has something to do with it. I know that some fail to put on weight with lamb, and then there's the extra stuff in beef to fatten 'em up.

Guess it's not the pred then. He's also low cortisol, so some of that should just be natural replacement.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Max Update - 12/22/11 01:56 PM

I should add, I didn't rebalance when I switched the lamb for the beef, which would account maybe for the change.

He was always at 78 pounds, best weight, but he's just over 86 now, and I don't like the trend. Between the protein changes, the extra stuff for the gut, and grinding his food, he's getting chunking. Never since his bloat in '04 has this been an issue!
Posted by: Braverhund

Re: Max Update - 12/22/11 07:46 PM

I understand your concern Lisa. But I must say that Max looks good in the photos! I guess beef and lamb are cooking foods, yes? Thinking good thoughts for Max!
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Max Update - 12/22/11 10:00 PM

Thanks for the update Lisa. I know you're doing everything possible for him and it's showing. I'm glad he felt well enough to go for that beautiful walk and was able to dig in the sand and wade in the water.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Max Update - 12/22/11 10:14 PM

Thanks Patti, this is the first time I've seen him with any weight on him - kinda weird! The beef and lamb is for cooking. However, now that I'm feeding beef, I would wonder about raw. Then, on the flip side, raw marrow or knuckle bones would always flair his SIBO, so with his infection issues, probably best not to mess with things.

Thank you Gayle! So happy he was up to the long walk, and so happy when I saw him stary digging smile
Posted by: kelso

Re: Max Update - 12/22/11 11:18 PM

Originally Posted By: arycrest
Thanks for the update Lisa. I know you're doing everything possible for him and it's showing. I'm glad he felt well enough to go for that beautiful walk and was able to dig in the sand and wade in the water.


Ditto!! Hugs to Max!
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Max Update/homeopathy - 12/29/11 02:35 PM

Thank you kelso, hugs delivered!

On the allopathic side, not much changed, still stable ( :crossedfingsers: ), we have been able to get him on his lowest dose of doxy, crrently 100 mg bid. He continues to have issues with his spine and biting hotspots, but maybe, hopefully, that's because things are changing a bit. The chiro says he's a bit more stable back there, so things could be worse.

I thought I'd outline some of the homeopathic stuff, since that's been an important part of his treatment. I will be over-simplifying, but this is the overview I've been thinking about in my head. Dosing with this style of homeopathy is more spread out, once a week at most.

Last summer, we started with phosphorus 30C, she was trying to support the small heart having trouble pumping blood through the body. However, by the second dose, it was clear that this wasn't the right remedy, it made him breathe harder.

She added the leaky veins into the mix, and knowing his response to some previous remedies that I had tried previously on him, and she came up with pulsatilla. We dosed at 30C a couple times, and 200C one or two times. He responded great to this remedy, his nose started healing after each administration. We would have kept going with it, but at the end, it kinda fizzled, he didn't respond as he should of on last administration, so it was time to switch. It seems the pulsatilla is not wholly considered a chronic/constitutional remedy, but it sure helped Max at a time when he really needed some extra help. His breathing and everything got better.

We then switched to Lycopodium 30C, and there was some reponse, but not the right response upon second administration. I have fond memories of Lyco, Indy was on that a lot wub

So, last I talked to her, he was chewing his spine and sacrum up and creating these hotspots. Chiro usually resolves this, but it wasn't this time. I was told to administer some Sulphur 200C. That night, not a single bite at his back. His three hotspot areas have dwindled to one, and thankfully he's not that obsessive about that one that is slowly resolving.

After administration of the sulphur, he played a lot with toys that night too, and has been playing more with toys. Not a lot, but more. I remember, the very first homeopathic remedy that was prescribed to Indyin her youth was Sulphur 10M. It somehow removes blockages, and relieves a lot of tension in the body.

With the sulphur, his breathing is also easier, I'm thinking it's helping the tightness in the lungs.

So,all of that has been an important part of his treatment, I don't think we would be as far as we are without it.

We are at vit C infusion today, just now starting to try to transition from every two weeks to every three weeks. To me,m that's signifcant, and it makes me happy that I think (hope) that he can do this!

No good pics today, in the corner in a bad spot...

Posted by: Braverhund

Re: Max Update/homeopathy - 12/29/11 03:48 PM

ANY pic of Max is a GOOD pic! smile I am glad he responded well to the sulphur. I'm also glad that you monitor so closely how Max feels with each change you make to his care. Sending you and Max good thoughts!
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Max Update/homeopathy - 12/29/11 03:59 PM

Originally Posted By: Braverhund
ANY pic of Max is a GOOD pic! smile


yes
thanks
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Max Update/homeopathy - 12/29/11 05:01 PM

blush

That's Max blushing...once in awhile, he can be very humble wub
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: Max Update/homeopathy - 12/29/11 05:33 PM

Sorry, Max. Not time to be humble - we all know you're Mr handsome!

Hope going to every 3 weeks works out well. crossedfingers
Posted by: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: Max Update/homeopathy - 12/29/11 06:10 PM

Lisa, you always do such a great job of documenting treatments and how Max is doing.

I hope every 3 weeks works out well.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Max Update/homeopathy - 12/29/11 09:33 PM

Thanks! Really hoping that every 3 weeks works for him (and my pocket book!). This will be a tougher teaching load this term, and I also won't be able to bring him to work like I did last semester, so I'm hoping for no relapses. We still have a couple of weeks to catch up with sleep and such - he's come so far, I'm so happy for him!
Posted by: Woodreb

Re: Max Update/homeopathy - 12/29/11 09:41 PM

Great that he is doing better. I'm happy for both of you.
Hope everything works out with the shift in the schedule for the Vit C infusions.
Posted by: bianca

Re: Max Update/homeopathy - 12/30/11 03:27 AM

Originally Posted By: Mary Jane
Originally Posted By: Braverhund
ANY pic of Max is a GOOD pic! smile


yes
thanks


smile Agree here too! I'm so so pleased you are finding things that are helping. The sulpher sounds amazing. More love to Mr Max wub
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Max Update/holding his own - 01/10/12 08:55 PM

So, after the last positive update, for the following week, he took a turn for the worse, and I couldn't figure out why he kept getting sicker again. I was so frustrated. Then I realized that I was accidentally giving him the wrong herb in the evening headbang Not only was he not getting the herb that he needed, he was getting one that was not good for him when given on a regular basis hammer

After I got that straightened out, he has recovered, and is doing actually pretty good. I don't want to get my hopes up too high, so I had them draw blood today to see what was really going on. His pancreas and liver values have been increasingly wonky, and I guess I need to know if they are continuing to get worse.

Here is a very boring (and somewhat shaky), of the boy, not really even worth posting. I took the video after I was thinking how he couldn't even walk a block during the summer, and look at him now wub So, to me, it's a pretty special video, though weird that he didn't want to go in the water today shrug

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Am0kaFL_8M
Posted by: unloader

Re: Max Update/holding his own - 01/10/12 09:03 PM

He sure seems to act like a normal dog! Glad you realized about the herb! He looks great, thanks for the update.

Boring is good!
Posted by: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: Max Update/holding his own - 01/10/12 09:11 PM

Boring is good. Good is that you figured out why he was having problems and corrected the giving of herbs.

Good is that Max is Max and still loving being with you.
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Max Update/holding his own - 01/10/12 09:16 PM

Loved the video ... so much fun to watch him digging!!!

Glad to hear you caught the error with and he's back to feeling like his old self now!!!
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: Max Update/holding his own - 01/10/12 09:40 PM

Max looked like he was checking the hole to see if it was deep enough. He really looks good, Lisa!

What a nice and clear day for the video. Beautiful spot for you and Max.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Max Update/holding his own - 01/10/12 09:59 PM

I have been so happy the last couple of days, he has had almost no distress breathing unless he's moving around or really excited - he's sleeping so well, not restless and moving as much as he was. Not sure what is around the corner, but I sure am enjoying this while it lasts!
Posted by: Woodreb

Re: Max Update/holding his own - 01/10/12 10:39 PM

Max looks like he was enjoying his outing.
Posted by: unloader

Re: Max Update/holding his own - 01/10/12 10:52 PM

Just curious, did you ever try those 'respiratory herbs' from only natural pets?
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Max Update/holding his own - 01/10/12 11:24 PM

He was definitely enjoying his outing!!

Michael, I did get the herbs, and was going to try them on me first, and something got in the way. I was just looking at them last night. I was actually trying to figure out how to give them, since the dose is about 30 drops, too many to drip on a treat, which I do for the tick disease herbs.

Still trying to figure out the breathing thing, so they are still on the list of possibles. Have you ever used them?
Posted by: unloader

Re: Max Update/holding his own - 01/10/12 11:41 PM

I haven't. I was just curious if that is what helped ease the breathing, but it seems something else is working in his favor. Either way, I'm glad you have found a good course of action. Stick with it!
Posted by: bianca

Re: Max Update/holding his own - 01/11/12 02:41 AM

Lisa, Max looks great! And he may not have got fully in the water but at least he got his tootsies wet! And he RAN a little bit wub

Great update Max, you keep up the good work for your mum smile
Posted by: FurKids

Re: Max Update/holding his own - 01/11/12 05:02 AM

Quote:
since the dose is about 30 drops, too many to drip on a treat, which I do for the tick disease herbs.


Since this would probably be considered to fattening prolly not the best idea as is, but might trigger some other possibilities with less calories ...

What about putting your 30 drops (yikes!) on a piece of soft bread, spread a little peanut butter on it then fold and make little balls - and put in a Kong? Could do the same with canned dog food, mashed veggies (freeze the kong) etc etc etc. Mine love cottage cheese and don't seem to have any trouble with it, 30 drops might make cc a little soupy but he might not care about that. In yogurt and freeze?

I don't know what he's on for a diet, but dribble on his kibble if he's on dry food is another idea.
Posted by: LJsMom

Re: Max Update/holding his own - 01/11/12 08:58 AM

Max looks so good and very happy digging a hole!
Posted by: DancingCavy

Re: Max Update/holding his own - 01/11/12 10:30 AM

He looks good! No one would probably guess he's been as sick as he has been to look at him. Yay!

And I love watching him dig holes! He looks so enthusiastic.
Posted by: Kris

Re: Max Update/holding his own - 01/11/12 10:51 AM

Lisa, he looks great!!! Good energy, bright eyes, curious (especially in that hole! rofl)! I wouldn't have known he had been sick either. So happy for you both!! And he's just gorgeous... wub And has my favorite name... wub No wonder he's so special!
Posted by: Barb E

Re: Max Update/holding his own - 01/11/12 11:09 AM

wub hugging
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Max Update/holding his own - 01/11/12 12:04 PM

Lisa,

Thank you so much for the video, it was like a visit to some ideal sanitarium, where you recover.

It's funny. Right now, for some reason, I am concerned about the health of a lot of people (and dogs). It really makes a difference to see your handsome Max fighting his illnesses and winning (knock wood a lot).

Mary Jane
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Max Update/holding his own - 01/11/12 06:26 PM

Thank you everyone, just hoping this bubble doesn't burst for a very long time. Should pick up blood result tomorrow.

I think the homeopathic remedy helped a lot, unblocking whatever was in the way of some things not being able to work wekk in his body. If I recall, it had that similar effect in Indy. I am supposed to watch for a plateau, or decline, and then redose.

Furkids, the problem with giving food is that Max can eat about 5 different things total, so it's a challenge, and balancing all his other treatments, but will certainly be looking at all those options, thank you smile
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: Max Update/holding his own - 01/11/12 06:51 PM

Just saw the Max video! He really looks great, Lisa--thanks for posting it. The kittens enjoyed watching him dig that hole. I hope they don't get any ideas!!!!
Posted by: JakodaCD OA

Re: Max Update/holding his own - 01/11/12 07:15 PM

he looks GOOD!!!
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Max Update/oh happy day! - 01/14/12 01:26 AM

happy joy happy joy


Picked up Max's blood results today at his vit C infusion.

His pancreas values, which have been going wonky since late 2010, are resolving. His amylase is back up in the normal range, and the lipase is going back down (which should be at about 50-60 for him). smile

ALT and ALK Phosphate values have significantly decreased smile

His thyroid is once again responding to medication smile

Worried about a few other things, like what might be going on with some of the blood counts and maybe the electrolytes, but we'll see what happens there over time.

I know how quickly this can turn the other way, but I'm just going to do a happy dance for about the next week in celebration of hard fought good news.


(Blood results http://tinyurl.com/7fhk8yw )
Posted by: bianca

Re: Max Update/oh happy day! - 01/14/12 01:55 AM

Oh Lisa that is fantastic news party You are doing such an amazing job for Mr Gorgeous! Great, great news smile
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Max Update/oh happy day! - 01/14/12 03:56 AM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
happy joy happy joy
....
I know how quickly this can turn the other way, but I'm just going to do a happy dance for about the next week in celebration of hard fought good news.
...
party Way to go Lisa & Max!!! groovy happyboogie
Posted by: Braverhund

Re: Max Update/oh happy day! - 01/14/12 01:56 PM

All GREAT n ews for Max! Do the happy dance-- together! party
Posted by: mspiker03

Re: Max Update/oh happy day! - 01/14/12 02:17 PM

Great to hear the good news.
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Max Update/oh happy day! - 01/14/12 02:40 PM

Looking at Max's blood gives us some idea of what has been happening in the last six months. Scary.

But now-Dance Party indeed!

have a great weekend Lisa and Max,
MJ
Posted by: Woodreb

Re: Max Update/oh happy day! - 01/14/12 02:41 PM

That is fantastic news for Max! happyboogie happyboogie
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: Max Update/oh happy day! - 01/14/12 03:37 PM

What wonderful news to see and I am Happy Dancing with you. It has been a long road and many would not have come so far with Max.

I hope things continue to look up.

party
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: Max Update/oh happy day! - 01/14/12 03:54 PM

Great news, Lisa! Max is very lucky to have ended up in your home: it is nothing short of amazing what you have done for you and how he has fought to stay with you. I'm very happy for both of you. hugging
Posted by: Barb E

Re: Max Update/oh happy day! - 01/14/12 05:18 PM

groovy
Posted by: JakodaCD OA

Re: Max Update/oh happy day! - 01/14/12 05:19 PM

great news lets party !!!:)
Posted by: LJsMom

Re: Max Update/oh happy day! - 01/14/12 06:06 PM

groovy

Curious about the lower Lipase. Did you give Max Panacur lately?
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Max Update/oh happy day! - 01/14/12 06:42 PM

Thanks everyone laugh

I hadn't realized what a dark cloud this has been, so much lighter now, no matter how long it lasts. I was just not ready to lose another without a battle, very fortunate to have all the pieces fall into place.


Originally Posted By: LJsMom
Curious about the lower Lipase. Did you give Max Panacur lately?

Yes, as a matter of fact wink

Actually I had tried that before, and it didn't work. BUT, that was before we had him on the cipro. Ultimately, I was sorta following a long term pneumonia protocl, which calls for 5 days of flagyl once a month. So have been pulsing with flagyl, as tolerated (it makes him wobbly), for several months. At the beginning of the month, he was eating cat crap again (new freedoms in the yard since his nose is better), and figured I'd try a round of panacur, about a week before the blood tests.

This all started with weird platelets. But when I backed off the fistula antibiotics in late 2010, it was his pancreas. I probably talked to 5 different vets about that, they all said that low amylase is inconsequential, and even if the lipase has risen, it's still "normal". Drives me batty - things in the body do not follow such a consistent pattern under normal circumstances.

Now that I think about this, I don't know if e.coli would have a "cyst" form, the way that these other chronic infections do, will have to look this up at some point - it may help narrow things down a bit.
Posted by: Kris

Re: Max Update/oh happy day! - 01/14/12 06:55 PM

Amazing and wonderful news! happyboogie groovy party
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Max Update/oh happy day! - 01/14/12 07:53 PM

Lisa,

If/when I get sick, I hope I have anybody anywhere who manages my treatment with one tenth the intelligence and devotion you have afforded your handsome Max.

Lady, read your last post and even one post shows the care you invest.

You're a lucky dog, Max.

MJ
Posted by: Qyn

Re: Max Update/oh happy day! - 01/14/12 09:21 PM

Wonderful to read some good news for Max groovy and you too of course! hugging
Posted by: Schnickle Fritz

Re: Max Update/oh happy day! - 01/14/12 11:07 PM

wink
Posted by: kelso

Re: Max Update/oh happy day! - 01/15/12 01:36 AM

So happy to hear! hugging Max
Posted by: DancingCavy

Re: Max Update/oh happy day! - 01/15/12 10:37 AM

Such outstanding news. I'm so glad to hear Max isn't just feeling better but is improving as well. Hooray!!
Posted by: TMarie

Re: Max Update/oh happy day! - 01/15/12 10:50 AM

This is Fantastic news Lisa. I'm so happy to read this wonderful news that you are seeing improvement!!!
Posted by: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: Max Update/oh happy day! - 01/15/12 11:37 AM

Lisa, I am so happy for both you and Max. He is so lucky to have a fighter like you in his corner.
Posted by: SeanRescueMom

Re: Max Update/oh happy day! - 01/15/12 12:26 PM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
I know how quickly this can turn the other way, but I'm just going to do a happy dance for about the next week in celebration of hard fought good news.


Doing the happy dance right along with you and a little extra! happyboogie
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Max Update/oh happy day! - 01/15/12 01:52 PM

party thanks for partying and celebrating with me smile groovy
Posted by: Natalie559

Re: Max Update/oh happy day! - 01/16/12 03:55 PM

You 2 are such troopers!! Glad Max is doing well!
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Max Update/plugging away - 01/27/12 05:21 PM

Today is vitamin C infusion day. My cell takes crummy pics - first one was in text mode, what funny tone? Second one was more normal - trying to get him to lie still so the line doesn't kink!




He's not doing as well on the lowered doxy dose, tweeking a few things, would like to not have to increase it, but we'll see. He was a happy boy, came to work with me the last two days - he really doesn't like the fact that I have to work for a living crazy
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Max Update/plugging away - 01/27/12 05:50 PM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
Today is vitamin C infusion day. My cell takes crummy pics - first one was in text mode, what funny tone? Second one was more normal - trying to get him to lie still so the line doesn't kink!




He's not doing as well on the lowered doxy dose, tweeking a few things, would like to not have to increase it, but we'll see. He was a happy boy, came to work with me the last two days - he really doesn't like the fact that I have to work for a living crazy
Sorry you're going to have to tweak his meds, BUT, he's really looking FANTASTIC!!! grouphug
Posted by: LJsMom

Re: Max Update/plugging away - 01/27/12 06:04 PM

Maxwell is so gorgeous! He does look fantastic! I just scrolled back to the beginning of the thread - such a difference!

I'm with Max. It really is a bummer when all your friends work and you're sitting at home with the dog(s) all day, hoping for an email or two...
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: Max Update/plugging away - 01/27/12 08:52 PM

There is our Max. Oops- I mean your Max - feels like a part of my family, too!

Looking good, Max. wub Maybe Mom will win a lottery and get to retire, stay home with you and write a journal of the Journeys of Indy and Max.

We all have learned so much from you. Now keep getting better, hear?
Posted by: Woodreb

Re: Max Update/plugging away - 01/27/12 08:57 PM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
...
He's not doing as well on the lowered doxy dose, tweeking a few things, would like to not have to increase it, but we'll see. He was a happy boy, came to work with me the last two days - he really doesn't like the fact that I have to work for a living crazy


Max, don't feel bad - Caleb and Ciara don't really like the fact that I have to go to work every day either.

Hope the tweaking helps get him back on an even keel.
Posted by: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: Max Update/plugging away - 01/27/12 10:03 PM

Hi Max and Lisa (LOL see who gets first billing here).

Max you are looking so much better, I am glad that you got to go to work with Lisa for a few days. Man it is such a drag that she has to work, but she needs to keep a roof over your heads and she thinks living in a car would be a bit cramped.

Lisa I hope you tweaking works.
Posted by: Braverhund

Re: Max Update/plugging away - 01/27/12 10:10 PM

I know those are cell phone pics, but, my GOSH is Max gorrrr-juss!! wub Max is one truly very handsome boy. I just adore seeing his pics, Lisa! I don't have any words of wisdom, just cheering you both on. smile
Posted by: bianca

Re: Max Update/plugging away - 01/28/12 06:11 AM

wub Mr Gorgeous! You are looking good! I hope your mums tweaking, will make you feel even better smile It's really not very fair that you get left at home, but she's doing it to help you.
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Max Update/plugging away - 01/28/12 08:39 AM

Just glad to hear from you.

Lots of twists and turns in this journey. Lucky that you have each other.

MJ
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: Max Update/plugging away - 01/28/12 12:40 PM

wub Hugs to both of you!
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Max Update/plugging away - 01/28/12 08:28 PM

Yes, "our" Max gets first billing!! Thank you everyone for your support and caring about my boy - it sure helps, this is so trying for both of us.

Nose is getting worse again (bleeding in the usual places, and breakthrough bleeding in other areas), breathing worse, 3rd eyelids this morning were almost completely pale with no color to them. Will try some major interventions so I have something to report to the internal med vet after my next payday.

I have relayed your messages to him, and he begrudgingly acknowledges the necessity of work thing. BUT, I think he still thinks that's where he belongs too wink Oh well, it's a compromise, a couple of days every couple of weeks....hopefully that will work!

eta: I have no idea where to put this, so I'll just put it here. Trivia tick diseaes fact of the day. A couple of dogs on the tick list with Anaplasmosis. The main symptom? Swelling of the scrotom. Don't think I've ever seen that on a list of symptoms. How very weird crazy
Posted by: bianca

Re: Max Update/plugging away - 01/29/12 04:57 AM

Bugger frown Is he worse (eyelids) after the vitamin c? Was that yesterday?

Sending my best wishes for the major tweaking hugging
Posted by: DancingCavy

Re: Max Update/plugging away - 01/29/12 08:36 AM

Awww I didn't want to hear of minor relapses. Poor Maxie. I hope you're able to stabilize him again. Sending good thoughts your way as always.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Max Update/plugging away - 01/29/12 12:57 PM

Yeah, relapse sucks.

Bianca, it was starting slowly after I dropped the doxy dose. Everything has kinda inched back. I was hoping the vit C would help, but it didn't seem to make a difference one way or another here.

I guess another leg of the journey.
Posted by: JakodaCD OA

Re: Max Update/plugging away - 01/29/12 06:33 PM

he looks good in the pics, but sorry he's relapsed a little:( Dogs do love to give us grey hairs don't they:)

strange about the scrotum swelling / anaplasmosis, I just HAD to go check Jag since he's the only 'boy" I have and nope his looks fine:) but he usually tests out low for anaplasmosis. Altho he's dealing or should I say we BOTH, are dealing with a major fungus outbreak in 3 spots on him:(
I look back in my notes, and it's always THIS month, he's been back to dirt eating to and I do see a correlation there:( I could stand over top of him and he'll still slug it down:(

Oh well, atleast he was cooperative and let me cut fur around the skanky looking things, vetericyn getting a good workout.

SOrry to go OT, but I feel your frustration!!! Hugs to Max, I'm sure you'll figure out some tweaking, your a good momma:)
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Max Update/plugging away - 01/29/12 07:09 PM

OT is fine! It was brought up that maybe that is where the tick bit intially, and in a spot that is hard for owners to check. One dog, the scrotom and leg was swollen, in the other dog, just the scrotom.

I think you have some weird fungus stuff where you live, just like here there is some weird thing that got the dogs....the same kinda, but different crazy I'm glad that the vetricyn works on your icky stuff! I find that the vetricyn eye stuff works great for my vision, though it takes about 10 minutes after application before I can see again.

Well, I am getting more grey hairs these past several months....I thought being 50 was finally catching up with me, but I think I'll blame it on Max instead rofl

Just ran across this while researching some other stuff, this is one reason why I really really really detest the FDA. W/o the vit C infusions, I don't think Max would be here: http://www.naturalnews.com/030936_vitamin_C_FDA.html I sure hope that this doesn't affect the availability for him frown
Posted by: marjorie

Re: Max Update/plugging away - 01/29/12 07:10 PM

Wow- Max is so HANDSOME!!!! You wouldnt know he is sick by looking at him. Prayers for him to get back on track or that you can get him stabilized to a point you are happy with!
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Max Update/plugging away - 01/29/12 07:13 PM

Thank you marjorie, he is here just through grit and prayers, so they all help smile

Apparently he told the animal communicator that he knows that he is handsome rofl
Posted by: Woodreb

Re: Max Update/plugging away - 01/29/12 08:27 PM

Lisa, This might be of interest:

"Why does the FDA want to ban such a wonderful treatment such as Vitamin C? It doesn’t. The warning letter didn’t apply to all small pharmacies. FDA inspectors took a look at McGuf Pharmacuticals’ labeling of their IV C and found that it was labeled improperly according to the FDA regulations."

from this site

Perhaps something taken a bit out of context?

It should only affect supplies that come from this particular company. Do you know the source of the injectable that Max is getting?
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Max Update/plugging away - 01/29/12 08:29 PM

Originally Posted By: Woodreb
Lisa, This might be of interest:

"Why does the FDA want to ban such a wonderful treatment such as Vitamin C? It doesn’t. The warning letter didn’t apply to all small pharmacies. FDA inspectors took a look at McGuf Pharmacuticals’ labeling of their IV C and found that it was labeled improperly according to the FDA regulations."

from this site

Perhaps something taken a bit out of context?


THANK YOU!!!! I didn't read it clearly or google further, which always gets me in trouble.

So, know I have to eat my words, because it's important to have things labeled correctly! mouthsealed mouthsealed mouthsealed
Posted by: Woodreb

Re: Max Update/plugging away - 01/29/12 08:31 PM

I don't think you need to eat your words. But the article made me want to look a little deeper. There's always 3 sides to a story.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Max Update/plugging away - 01/29/12 08:33 PM

Originally Posted By: Woodreb
.... There's always 3 sides to a story.


Absolutely! I appreciate you taking the time to do that - I was in a mild panic about this. They had to call me last week, thinking that they wouldn't be able to get Max's vit C by the time of the appointment, so I was worried that it might be related.

The clinic did say that they were using quite a bit of Vit C - a lot of dogs with cancer frown
Posted by: Woodreb

Re: Max Update/plugging away - 01/29/12 08:41 PM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
Originally Posted By: Woodreb
.... There's always 3 sides to a story.


Absolutely! I appreciate you taking the time to do that - I was in a mild panic about this. They had to call me last week, thinking that they wouldn't be able to get Max's vit C by the time of the appointment, so I was worried that it might be related.

The clinic did say that they were using quite a bit of Vit C - a lot of dogs with cancer frown


I don't blame you for being in a bit of a panic when this really seems to be helping Max alot. And there certainly seem to be a lot of websites out there that took the original article you saw and ran with it without doing a bit of extra research compared to anything that discussed what actually happened.

A little OT, but do you know if the vitamin C has ever been used for dogs with hemangiosarcoma?
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Max Update/plugging away - 01/29/12 08:47 PM

Originally Posted By: Woodreb
I don't blame you for being in a bit of a panic when this really seems to be helping Max alot. And there certainly seem to be a lot of websites out there that took the original article you saw and ran with it without doing a bit of extra research compared to anything that discussed what actually happened.

A little OT, but do you know if the vitamin C has ever been used for dogs with hemangiosarcoma?


I'm just glad of one less thing to panic about laugh

I don't know about the hemangio. The vet has kinda abandoned us, she just lets me do my thing, but seems to keep her distance, so I don't get to talk to that vet much. I will try to ask the techs there next time I go. It'll be in three weeks this time, so I hope to remember.

I honestly think that between the doxy and the vit C, those are the main reasons Max hasn't developed some full blown cancer. It might still be there lurking, but I hope we don't find out for a long time. Between his spleen that enlarges, and his neck lymph nodes that are persistently swollen at least at a low grade level, I wonder how an immune system can hold all of that back. Drugs and diet I guess!
Posted by: Woodreb

Re: Max Update/plugging away - 01/29/12 09:13 PM

No worries if you don't remember to ask about the vitamin C and hemangio. I'm just curious.

I have days when I wish there was something that I could have done to help Aodhán when we found the tumor on her heart. I believe that we did what was best for her under the circumstances, but it doesn't mean that I don't wish I could have done something more.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Max Update/plugging away - 01/29/12 09:30 PM

Originally Posted By: Woodreb
I have days when I wish there was something that I could have done to help Aodhán when we found the tumor on her heart. I believe that we did what was best for her under the circumstances, but it doesn't mean that I don't wish I could have done something more.


I think you will always wonder a bit if more could have been done. I still have those thoughts with Indy. And when it's Max's time, in spite of all of this, I will still have those thoughts.

I think that once cancer is firmly established, it's incredibly difficult, and hemangio is such a silent disease. Max, with his infections, there is something to fight, but I think in most cases, it doesn't happen that way, it's a silent, and often quick process. I've read all the anecdotal stories, clear ultrasounds, and just months later, there it is hugging
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 01/31/12 08:35 PM

Had an appt with the internal med vet today...

Max had an "episode" this weekend. Vet said it sounds like a hemangiosarcoma bleed. He said that my description of how it happened was almost textbook perfect teary

If the ultrasound doesn't show any masses, malignant or benign, then it could then be a blood parasite.

U/s is next tues, the 7th. Until then, I am choosing to believe that this is a blood parasite....
Posted by: JeanKBBMMMAAN

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 01/31/12 08:38 PM

I bet it is a blood parasite.
Posted by: DancingCavy

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 01/31/12 08:43 PM

Oh no. We don't want to hear any more bad news. Poor Maxie. frown Sending positive thoughts and strength your way!
Posted by: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 01/31/12 08:52 PM

Well we are all hoping for blood parasite.

Lisa, I can only send you some cyber hugs and strength.

Hang in there Mr Handsome Max.
Posted by: Woodreb

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 01/31/12 09:13 PM

grouphug Hang in there Lisa and Max.
Posted by: Tara

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 01/31/12 09:27 PM

Sending good thoughts! hugging
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 01/31/12 09:58 PM

Hugs and strength welcome, thank you!

In my head, I can create a scenario either way, it will be a long week. I tried to prepare myself for this the last 6 months, but you just can't really prepare to have that conversation with the vet. He warned me of a few things that might happen between now and then if this really is hemangio. Talked about the sudden death thing. Talked about how that isn't usually how it goes, there are usually more bleeds, the dog recovers each time, but doesn't recover fully, getting weaker with each bleed, as the qulity of life declines, and we must intervene.

With no treatment, statistics say a week to 3 months. With surgery, 3-6 months. With additional chemo, 6-9 months. I can't see Max going through that surgery, wouldn't do chemo for this.

Blood parasite makes so much sense too with his history.

He said on the u/s, they can also sometimes see if blood is being sequestered if there isn't a mass, talked a bit about the role of doxy in that instance - that part is kinda fuzzy, not sure I might have been a bit lightheaded at that point, that might have been the parasite thing. I asked about doxy and hemangio, like sometimes it's used for lymphoma, he said he didn't know, no one has ever tried that he knew.

Before that, talked a bit about the difference between how doxy and pred act as anti-inflammatories, and many dogs with autoimmune conditions will respond better to one or the other, often not both. Many nose things respond to doxy/niacinamide and not pred.

They have a radioligist come in that has better equipment than they have on site. He will be there looking over the radiologists shoulder, so to speak, which makes me feel more confident. This internal med vet did Indy's u/s maybe 11 years ago, so two sets of experienced eyes, and the vet is very familiar with the history and is also the intellectually curious type.

So, will try my best, game face for the next week...
Posted by: Kris

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 01/31/12 10:29 PM

Originally Posted By: JeanKBBMMMAAN
I bet it is a blood parasite.


Ditto.

hugging
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 01/31/12 10:46 PM

grouphug I don't think I've ever prayed that a dog had a blood parasite, but in Max's case I'll pray like crazy that it is!!! IMHO hemagiosarcoma is the most evil word in the English language.
Posted by: Braverhund

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 01/31/12 10:56 PM

For Max crossedfingers crossedfingers crossedfingers good thoughts and vibes are being sent that this is a blood parasite, or anything else less worrysome. gsdbeggin
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 01/31/12 11:21 PM

Please Max, let this be a minor set back. You are doing so good.

grouphug
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/01/12 01:03 AM

Yeah, seems a bit odd to be hoping for a blood parasite crazy My dogs get weird things, so maybe hold out for something weird and benign.

Would love for this to be a minor setback!
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/01/12 02:49 AM

I certainly hope it's a blood parasite. hugging
Posted by: bianca

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/01/12 02:54 AM

Oh Lisa, praying with everything I have this is a blood parasite hugging Will they be able to test further as to what type and what treatment?

Come'on next week hugging And a gentle kiss for Max.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/01/12 10:23 AM

Thank you Ruth and bianca.

If it's a blood parasite, I doubt we will find it. There are so many things we don't have tests for, the tests we do have aren't 100P.
Posted by: Braverhund

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/01/12 10:39 AM

Lisa, hugging more vibes being sent for Max, that this is a minor setback and that he will rally!
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/01/12 11:14 AM

Thank you Patti hugging

For now I'm upping his doxy, trying to do that without nose blood splatter, being more diligent with the Yunnan Baiyao which helps with internal bleeding and blood vessel integrity, continuing to give the vitamin K. If he tolerated IP6, I would give that, but it tends to make his paw swell, so will try 1/2 on every 2nd or 3rd day to see how that works. If he tolerated alfalfa, I would give that too for it's blood building properties.

Way too much bad news in the Health forum this morning feelingblue wouldn't mind something that seems to be going right...
Posted by: Woodreb

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/01/12 11:38 AM

hugging hugging hugging grouphug
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/01/12 11:50 AM

Lisa,

So (like a lot of people) I gasped when I started reading Max's exploits over the weekend.

I have no idea if this makes sense with whatever parasite might enjoy Max's hospitality, but he might have elevated serum IgE. IgE can be diagnostic for some parasites in people. I'm just wishing I could be helpful (like everybody).

Take care of yourself as well as Max,
Mary Jane
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/01/12 05:32 PM

Poor Max and Lisa - a step backward, but you can pull out this, Mr Max.

hugging
Posted by: kelso

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/01/12 10:19 PM

grouphug hugging

Thinking of you and Max
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/02/12 03:18 AM

Max has more strength today, but still not wanting to move around too much, but each day is a bit better since this weekend, so that is good.

Mary Jane, I will ask the vet about the IgE. I googled a bit, didn't find the right words to get what I wanted, but the vet should know. The only thing I can see in his bloodwork is that the platelets are going back down to the lower end (consistent either way), but his monocytes are tending higher than they used to, don't know if that's the low dose pred, but lower platelets with a touch higher monocytes than his norm points to blood parasite to me. I keep coming back to infection, but we all know how that can change in an instant, and I guess no reason why it couldn't be both frown

Still enjoying the bonus time with him here since last summer. My students from last term really miss seeing him everyday. When he came in last week, they were very happy to see him laugh
Posted by: bianca

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/02/12 03:20 AM

Mr Max, you have so many in your corner sending you strength hugging

Well Lisa....that's simple, we can't have your students missing him! Off to school everyday then with Mr Max! It's a win, win!
Posted by: Braverhund

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/02/12 10:32 AM

I'm happy to hear that Max has a bit more strength since the weekend. Such a very special boy. I bet the students adore seeing him! Sending you good thoughts today, and Max, too! hugging
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/02/12 03:18 PM

He's awfully weak, hoping we can get him recovered, from whatever it is...

Napping during quiz time wub

Posted by: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/02/12 03:31 PM

Lisa sending Max some strength and health vibes. Max please please get better.
Posted by: Barb E

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/02/12 03:31 PM

Well hell, I missed the updates somehow
hugging x 1,000,000.50 and know that I'm keeping Max (and you!) in my thoughts and zooming good energies south!
Posted by: Woodreb

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/02/12 04:20 PM

More good thoughts and prayers being sent from CT as well.
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/02/12 04:32 PM

If I had Max sleeping at my feet when I was in school, I promise you my grades would plummet.

Whatever troubled him over the weekend, it's got to be a good sign that he is feeling better (doesn't it?).

cheers,
MJ
Posted by: DancingCavy

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/02/12 06:13 PM

He looks so relaxed. What a lucky guy he is to get to travel to work with you.

Still wishing for good news for Mr. Max.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/02/12 07:45 PM

So, it is seeming clear that *whatever* it was from, it was some kind of bleed, probably into his abdomen. Of course hemangio can do this, as can the blood parasites. Kicking myself for lowering the doxy in Dec frown He has recovered some, which is a good sign, but it worries me that it is a very slow recovery, it really takes everything he has to maneuver himself where he wants to go. I can see a scenario either way, so I am trying real hard not to speculate and just wait until Tuesday.

I spoke with the homeopathic vet this afternoon. There are several indications of an increased systemic inflammatory response, and I was hoping that this pointed to parasites, but she said that what I was seeing can also be caused by hemangio, so that was shot down. I did go back to his former acute remedy, the pulsatilla 200c to help with the nasal issues for now.

Until we know more on Tuesday, she wants me to work on normalizing his immune system. He doesn't do well on colostrum, so we will be adding vit A and E for now.

I love watching the students interact with him. I have one student who doesn't like to interact with the others much, and would prefer to sit and read a book, and it was neat to see that student's eyes light up with Max walked in the room. When some students leave, it's interesting to watch which ones have to make a point to come over and pet him before they go. I can really see how folks that work with therapy dogs get a lot of fulfillment from that.
Posted by: JeanKBBMMMAAN

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/02/12 08:44 PM

Don't kick yourself.

My only suggestion is Reiki.

hugging
Posted by: Braverhund

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/02/12 10:02 PM

Lisa, would you like me to add Max to my distance Reiki list? Just an offer. peacesign Sending you and Max lots of strength vibes and positive thoughts right now. hugging
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/02/12 10:27 PM

Thank you Jean, excellent suggestion smile

Patti, I would be very grateful if you would add Max to the list.

For the first time ever, he has been leaving the room to go lay in quiet in the other room by himself. NOT liking this, but respecting his needs for right now at least.
Posted by: Braverhund

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/02/12 10:49 PM

Max is on my list, Lisa, for Reiki energy! paw

I am so sorry he is going into the other room by himself. Sending you also strength vibes. I wish I were closer. hugging
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/02/12 11:00 PM

Thank you Patti, so appreciated hugging
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/02/12 11:28 PM

Oh...

I don't know what to say. I love that handsome guy.

Please try to enjoy every minute you have with him. I hope it's not hemangio. I lost Basu and Massie to that stupid cancer.

Anyway, sending you much love from the BowWowMeowMeow household.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/03/12 12:32 AM

Thank you Ruth, I know that there has been much too much experience with hemangio around here frown I am so not ready for this ride to be over, can't really bear the thought, trying not to go there.

I love the BWMM smile , hadn't seen the extra Meow yet cattailwag
Posted by: bianca

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/03/12 04:50 AM

hugging hugging hugging hugging
Posted by: LJsMom

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/03/12 08:01 AM

Sending Max lots of healing thoughts and love. Great idea on the Reiki!

Please Max, get better. You just have to. hugging
Posted by: Kayos

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/03/12 08:15 AM

I want Max to have a blood parasite for my birthday which is the 7th.

I had not seen the weekend news either and had seen this thread come back up to the top until today. Hoping this is not hemangio and that Max continues to improve daily. He is such a sweet guy. hugging
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/03/12 09:46 AM

Lisa,

Well, OK, Max wanting some private time is testing your self-control. Hope (hard) for the best, gird yourself for the worst. Through everything you have handled with Indy and Mr. Gorgeous, you must have a spine of steel: strong and flexible.

We're sending constant, strong, sincere positive thoughts.

Please post whenever you feel like it.

MJ
Posted by: LukesMom

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/03/12 10:21 AM

I'm so sorry Max is not feeling well. Hopefully you can get through this together since you are both fighters.
Posted by: TMarie

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/03/12 10:24 AM

We are always thinking of you and Max, and only hoping for the best for both of you.
hugging
Posted by: kaisersmom

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/03/12 11:51 AM

It's getting more and more difficult coming to the "Health" section of this forum frown

Hoping for many more good days ahead for you and Max! hugging gsdsit
Posted by: Braverhund

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/03/12 11:57 AM

Hi Lisa, just checking in, sending you support and encouragement to enjoy every moment with Max The Handsome. wub We don't like to think of the worst case, though sometimes we do it to feel more prepared just-in-case. We're all rooting for Max to rally, for this to be something less worrysome. I am continuing to send Max Reiki. paw Such a loved boy, with a humungus fanclub here, and at the school, too! May he be feeling better, and holding his own. gsdbeggin
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/03/12 12:26 PM

Thank you so much everyone, it helps a lot, to not go through this alone, so to speak.

Kathy, I will tell Max that we need good news for your birthday, and hope that it's a magic charm.

Prepare for the worstN hope for the best - will be my mantra for the next few days. The thought that in a week, he might not be here, unless something changes, is just incomprehensible. He had a really hard time eating last night, though breakfast went a lot better - small encouraging signs I'll hang on to.

Thank you Patti for helping my boy to heal. Last night he didn't want to go out and wouldn't go upstairs, so I slept downstairs on the couch with him. This morning though, he did come up when I was taking a shower, which made me very happy.

He is not panting at all this morning, I don't know what that means. Would hemangio get worse after meals? This might be happening, and I keep hoping it would point in another direction. I guess if there is a lot of fluid in the abdomen, the added pressure of food might be bad?

His urine is also very dark and kinda orange-y...thought that was dehydration, but maybe not.

He has instructions today to rest and heal - he is a good boy, so I'm sure he will be working on that.

Thank you again everyone.
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/03/12 01:34 PM

hugging Thinking of you and Max, keeping both of you in my prayers!!! hugging
Posted by: DancingCavy

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/03/12 05:28 PM

*HUGS* I wish I could offer more.
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/03/12 05:45 PM

Quote:
For the first time ever, he has been leaving the room to go lay in quiet in the other room by himself. NOT liking this, but respecting his needs for right now at least.


You know, this is harder than some may imagine. My Solo always went off by herself when overly tired, or not feeling well. It was a worry for me not to be able to see her, but also I felt like there was something I should be doing for her and I was perhaps missing it.

I wish I had known a physic back then - they probably would have told me that Solo was just so comfortable, relaxing on her own where it was most quiet, knowing that if she did need me I was there.


Max, hugs to you. I wish I could offer you some magic potion and make things all better. Since I cannot, I will just continue sending out my best good thoughts to you and Lisa. hugging
Posted by: Good_Karma

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/03/12 06:57 PM

I'm really sorry that Max is struggling so much. teary

hugging
Posted by: middleofnowhere

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/03/12 06:59 PM

I don't know how helpful this info will be - my experience was hemangios. with the late Barker the Younger. The dog looses energy when s/he bleeds. The blood is reabsorbed, their blood supply (well it doesn't exactly "increase") goes back to the more routine, helpful location, the dog feels more energetic. I would think any sort of bleed would follow a similar path. With hemangio it has a catch 22 - hopefully not with the other causes.

So far as encouraging a patient to eat - this was Barker the Elder, BTY never felt so bad she wouldn't eat! - finely sliced roast turkey breast from the deli and canned baby food (chicken or beef) helped.

Barker the Elder had several fades and rallies over the last couple of years of her life. May Max rally for longer and, darn it, soon!
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/03/12 07:27 PM

Is there a more comfortable place for Max to sleep in the other room? I know now that Mac is a senior if he can't be on the couch with me, or acts uncomfortable, he'll often go get on one of the dog beds in the bedroom.
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/03/12 08:51 PM

Hi Lisa,

Just checking in on you and the handsome, sweet Max. When Basu had hemangio one afternoon he stopped eating and had no energy. When I came home that night he was really ticked that I hadn't fed him. The next day he was back to his old self, had a good walk with Chama, eating fine, etc. Then when the tumor started bleeding again he lost energy and his appetite again.

Hopefully Max is feeling ok tonight.

Please enjoy your weekend with him--take him somewhere he loves. hugging
Posted by: Braverhund

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/03/12 09:54 PM

Lisa, you and Max are definitely not alone. grouphug We are all here for you both. I'm continuing sending Reiki to Max. Does it seem to you that he doesn't seem to feel sick, just uncomfortable and weak/tired? I think it is very good that you slept nearby. Maybe some reading or watching TV while sitting near him on the floor, if he doesn;t go in the other room, might make you both feel supported by eachother, perhaps? In most pictures of Max, the shot seems to be taken from right at Max's level. My sense is that you really connect with your dogs where and how they are, Lisa. They sense that. How lucky Max is to have you. hugging Wishing for time, extended and sweet... hugging
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/03/12 10:09 PM

It's so good to be home - I hate having to leave him when he is not well.

He wanted to walk further tonight when we went out, but still not very far. Mucous membranes are pale, but not ashen like they were.

His belly is very very expanded. If he weren't tacked, I would be afraied of torsion. GasX doesn't seem to be making musch of a dent, so doesn't seem like gas. Also trying charcoal in case there are toxins.

Worried something very toxic has him, or something very bad going on in there - I guess it could be blood. I hope that we make it to tuesday's appt, I don't want to have to go in earlier, I want his vet there for whatever we have to face. Glad it's the weekend, but also a bit scary since it's not a regular working day. The homeopathic vet left a message to give Lachesis 30c this weekend: http://www.vithoulkas.com/en/books-study/online-materia-medica/3090.html

Middle and Ruth, thank you. This doesn't sound like it's acting the same way, so either it is already very advanced and he's not able to recover, or maybe it is something else. I just don't know what to think - scared to think too far in any direction at this point. If this is going to turn around, if it's not hemangio, this weekend I think is critical. If it is hemangio, then I think it is pretty advanced from what I am hearing here then. He has an appetite, but everything seems worse after eating.

Gayle, he does have a dog bed everywhere down here, but usually chooses the hard floor if he's not on the couch. My funny boy -

Patti, everything seems labored for him - just moving seems to take everything he's got, he is very wobbly. And he's very tired, and weak.

He gorges on water and tried to eat grass, so I'm sure his tummy is upset. I'm afraid to feed him, afraid not too. I gave him half a breakfast, got home a bit ago and will feed the other half soon.

Just glad to be home, but I think I already said that!
Posted by: JeanKBBMMMAAN

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/03/12 10:16 PM

Patti, that is so nice of you to do that. I think that Patti (and Val too) have some interesting insights on a lot of these dogs. Patti has said (and Val too - ha!) some things about my dogs that have really been frighteningly accurate. So I feel better knowing she's sending Max that Reiki.

Lisa, try not to do too much thinking and worrying over the weekend (HA! from me!) but maybe just jot things you observe and when, so you can get it on paper and then move on to something else.

IF you think he can tolerate it, put some upbeat music on that you like, or a funny something that lifts your spirits, as they do pick up so much on how we are. Easier said than done.

Take care, Mister Max!
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/03/12 10:31 PM

Originally Posted By: JeanKBBMMMAAN

Lisa, try not to do too much thinking and worrying over the weekend


Jean rofl ya, right!

I agree about Val and Pattie smile

He wants dinner, and actually looks better just now, just hard to keep his eyes open, and I just gave him some charcoal, so food has to wait.

I wish he were up for traveling, just too stressful for him - has been for awhile, but with him feeling so bad, we are pretty grounded. I don't think he minds right now.
Posted by: JeanKBBMMMAAN

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/03/12 10:41 PM

Well, I tried! I figured it wouldn't exactly have a lot of clout coming from me too. laugh
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/03/12 10:44 PM

Lol, it is great advice, but from you...to...me?

Yikes, what a pair crazy
Posted by: Braverhund

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/03/12 10:46 PM

Lisa, I am sure Max is enjoying just having you closeby, sharing your loving vibes with him. Just feeling eachother. My sense is that he feels all of your care and support for him, your love. Max is one very lucky fellow. paw

It's hard to feel calm when we work to search so hard for answers. It's a pattern for us all caring for our seniors, we always are trying to find out what can best help, what we can try. May Tuesday's appointment come soon. For now, if you are able, try to quiet your amazing, gifted, active mind, which has advocated for Max so many times. Just being present in the moment, sharing warmth and love with him. Lucky Max to have such a caring friend in you. hugging

Sending more Reiki as I go to bed. bloomrose I'll check in tomorrow morning!
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/03/12 10:50 PM

Thank you Patti, excellent advice.

I need to work on just being here for him this weekend.

Thanks both of you, thanks all of you.
Posted by: Zisso

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/03/12 11:56 PM

Sending prayers for Max and hugs for you before heading off for the night. Hope tomorrow finds him in good spirits and you are able to breathe easy and enjoy the day.
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/04/12 12:24 AM

I know is hard with an overactive brain that used to problem solving but the moment to moment thing is the absolute best for both of you right now. Sending more hugs and strength, peace and calming to both of you.
Posted by: kelso

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/04/12 01:15 AM

frown That Max is not feeling well

I hope you both have a beautiful weekend together and that he starts to feel better real soon. Hugs Lisa, hug your boy tight from me as well
Posted by: bianca

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/04/12 03:43 AM

I don't what to say other then my continuing positive thoughts and prayers for Max. hugging hugging
Posted by: DancingCavy

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/04/12 08:29 AM

Continuing to send good thoughts your way. Give Max some pets from me. Stay strong, you two!
Posted by: Good_Karma

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/04/12 08:29 AM

hugging
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/04/12 08:53 AM

Originally Posted By: BowWowMeow
I know is hard with an overactive brain that used to problem solving but the moment to moment thing is the absolute best for both of you right now.


I couldn't say it better.

do take care,
MJ
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/04/12 08:58 AM

Continued hugs for you and Max. I want to add some kind of powerful thoughts, but I have none.

Just enjoy all your time with him and know your friends here surround you with good thoughts. grouphug
Posted by: Braverhund

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/04/12 11:48 AM

Hi Lisa, just stopping by to leave you and Max some extra hugging hugging hugging
Posted by: Woodreb

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/04/12 01:12 PM

grouphug Enjoy your day with Max
Posted by: Barb E

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/04/12 02:12 PM

hugging and hugging
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/04/12 02:38 PM

grouphug Been thinking about you and Max, hoping you two are having an enjoyable day together!!!
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/04/12 03:33 PM

Bonnie, hugs and love and positive energy and intent are all powerful hugging

He wanted to take a little walk this morning, so this is good. We weren't able to go far, but nice to be out, and he is still looking for the neighborhood cats to bark at...

Nothing is worse today, most things at least a bit better, and he certainly wants to do more, wants to eat. So nice to have him here at least emotionally, even if physically his body has let him down.

This is really really hard.

I will update again later if anything changes. Just a low key weekend, trying to not upset him, and just his enjoy his presence.
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/04/12 04:55 PM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
enjoy his presence.


good plan
Posted by: Kayos

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/04/12 07:41 PM

I agree. Hoping he is a bit better tomorrow.
Posted by: bianca

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/05/12 04:47 AM

Hoping today has been a good day for both of you.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/05/12 04:59 PM

I took him out front for a short bit yesterday, and with everything he had, he pulled me to the park, and wanted to keep going down to the river. I had asked him earlier what he wanted me to do, and I think I take that he wants a chance to fight, if it's in the cards.

He came upstairs this morning, so he is a little bit better - well enough for his drive to override anything else right now.

So, I am going to take him on errands today. This has been one of the longest weeks in my life I think - no matter how I put the argument together, I still get a draw between blood infection and blood cancer, or both I guess.

He is in the car, hyperventilating away, excited to go, so I best be getting along fetch
Posted by: LJsMom

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/05/12 05:05 PM

Yay, Max is going for a ride! Hope you don't need to go to Costco. It was a zoo yesterday.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/05/12 05:13 PM

There's a game on, right? This is how out of the loop I am! I was going to buy a new tv during the SB sales, but, well, priorities...

Bet Costco will be dead today!
Posted by: LJsMom

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/05/12 05:25 PM

There's always next years SB sales! The game starts at 6:30 ET.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/05/12 05:30 PM

Lol, I've waited this long to join the rest of the nation, what's another year?

Okay, another hour here then. Good day to be out and about!
Posted by: JakodaCD OA

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/05/12 05:42 PM

Glad Max is getting YOU up and moving:))) It's always great to have good days
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/05/12 08:10 PM

Lisa,

I can't help it. I'm developing a huge crush on your dog.

He's so brave and alive and tuned into you.

Max is just a great dog.
MJ
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/05/12 10:30 PM

Diane, yes! since he has to keep moving as part of his treatment, it is good for me too. Makes me get out there and enjoy him all the more wub

MJ, as he gets older, he is just getting better. I think that he has waited all his life to be able to be this kind of dog, and I hope that he is able flourish longer.

This is a pretty flat picture, but this is him pulling me along the walk yesterday, all I saw was his backside - he kept propelling forward, head down and on a mission. This was when a dog kept barking at him, so he was forced to look up. I didn't even put on his wrist brace since I didn't expect to be walking:




And today I let him bark all he wanted at the cows outside the car window laugh
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/05/12 10:45 PM

Quote:
And today I let him bark all he wanted at the cows outside the car window


That's funny! You know how some dogs will bark if you just whisper 'squirrel?' My sister's aussie can be sound asleep in the car and if she says 'cow' all *(^&*^ breaks loose.

Cow barking is a fun sport!

Sounds like Max enjoyed his walk on a beautiful day.
Posted by: Woodreb

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/05/12 10:53 PM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
....
And today I let him bark all he wanted at the cows outside the car window laugh


laugh My Max used to bark at cows from the car from puppyhood on. Partly due to me - I used to tell him to "look at the cows" and he'd pop up and bark. When I moved to CT from TX, my Mom kept Max and Kelly for me until I moved into our house. She took them for a ride one day and almost jumped out of her seat when he popped up as they passed a farm and started barking at the cows. I hadn't thought to warn her that he barked at cows.

So glad to hear that you and Max had an enjoyable weekend.
Posted by: bianca

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/06/12 02:50 AM

Barking at cows - now that sounds like a perfect way to enjoy the day wub I'm so pleased you wanted to go for a pullathon or walk Max! smile
Posted by: JakodaCD OA

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/06/12 07:16 AM

well it looks like there are two things that you need to get for Max ,,a cat and cows LOL
Posted by: LJsMom

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/06/12 07:41 AM

Originally Posted By: JakodaCD OA
well it looks like there are two things that you need to get for Max ,,a cat and cows LOL


Three. He needs his own giant sand box to dig in.
Posted by: DancingCavy

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/06/12 10:21 AM

So glad Max got to go out on a nice walk. Sounds like you guys both needed that!
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/06/12 03:51 PM

kitty, cow and a sandbox, what a great mix for him smile

Max had another "spell" overnight. He's very weak. I did bring him in today, and he didn't make it to class, he's in the office resting. I had to force him to eat this morning. If he doesn't eat, I can't give him any meds, there is no hope if there are no meals.....

When this happens, he is not able to pee, and then when he starts being able to pee, his blood is very dark and odd in color....so I think for sure that these are bleeds from what I've read, and his 3rd eyelids are also ashen. He has had these 3rd eyelid episodes for a long time, many years, and doxy used to keep it in check, which is one reason why he's been on it since 2009. I don't know why in the heck I thought he could get away with a reduced dosage...that makes no sense, what could I have been thinking teary Still holding out for blood parasite though until absolutely convincing evidence otherwise. I don't mind living in the state of denial as long as there is an ounce of hope....


I'm wondering if it isn't the charcoal I've been giving that triggered last night's episode, there are some instestinal cautions here:

Quote:
http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/activated+charcoal

Activated charcoal may cause swelling or pain in the stomach. A doctor should be notified immediately. It has been known to cause problems in people with intestinal bleeding, blockage or those people who have had recent surgery.


Quote:
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/drug-information/DR602267/DSECTION=before-using

The presence of other medical problems may affect the use of medicines in this class. Make sure you tell your doctor if you have any other medical problems, especially:
* Bleeding, intestinal or
* Blockage, intestinal or
* Hole in the intestine—Activated charcoal may make these conditions worse.
....
* Slow digestion—Activated charcoal may not work properly.

I do notice that he seems to feel worse after it, but he feels worse after a lot of things frown

VDI called today as part of their regularly scheduled calls for their hemangio study. They are over-nighting a new kit to the vet so that Max can have a follow-up blood test drawn for that too. What timing, eh?

Can't wait for tomorrow, and afraid.

Yikes, bad form to start crying before running off to class! Hopefully some rest will bring him more energy.
Posted by: unloader

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/06/12 04:00 PM

I'm so sorry Max is going through this! Good luck with the visit tomorrow. Wish I could help.
Posted by: Woodreb

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/06/12 04:31 PM

Hang in there Max - grouphug
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/06/12 04:38 PM

grouphug Lisa & Max grouphug
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/06/12 04:39 PM

Lisa,

Thank everything that's holy that you still have hope.

Remember yesterday and Max pulling.

Your boy is still here with you-a great place to be.

MJ
Posted by: LJsMom

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/06/12 05:35 PM

hugging
Posted by: Kris

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/06/12 05:54 PM

I'm going to believe with everything I have that this is a blood parasite. Period.

hugging to you both and hoping for the very best tomorrow. Max is such a trooper. As are you, Lisa. This dog would not be here today without your persistence and knowledge - just never, ever giving up in your search for an answer. You should be very proud of what you've done for Max. I know it's not about that, but I just marvel at your abilities and grit and determination - and love for Max. If I ever get sick, clear out a room, 'cause I'm movin' to California so you can be my care taker! wink Gee, just what you wanted to hear, huh! rofl
Posted by: TimberWolf

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/06/12 06:10 PM

Lisa, I am so sorry Max is not feeling well and has to go through this. I hope he will be able to recover from this completely and get a miracle. There is always hope, so good for you for holding on to that. Sending you and Max major good health wishes and realized hope. butterfly hugging
Posted by: TMarie

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/06/12 06:10 PM

hugging
Posted by: DancingCavy

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/06/12 06:57 PM

Sending huge hugs and good thoughts your way, Lisa. Max is so lucky to have you in his corner.
Posted by: Barb E

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/06/12 07:11 PM

hugging and hugging and *Zooming good thoughts south*
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/06/12 08:10 PM

I always check here for Max News. I was hoping it would be better than this sounds. teary

I hope Max ate better tonight and rebounds enough to enjoy the evening with you. Maybe he just wore himself out yesterday - ah, but such a good day it was!

hugging
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/06/12 09:06 PM

Hey Lisa,

If I don't make another post before you go, know that I truly wish that your Max is harboring a blood infection, something that you and his physicians can treat.

Sunday can't be a fluke.

all my best to both of you,
Mary Jane

PS I hope to catch you again before your appointment
Posted by: Braverhund

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/06/12 09:36 PM

Lots of good vibes for Max's appointment! crossedfingers crossedfingers crossedfingers
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/06/12 09:47 PM

So glad you are all in Max's corner! And mine too! I really appreciate each and everyone of you grouphug

He seemed to perk up a small bit once at home for awhile. Funny, his nose started oozing blood more before this happened last night too. When I woke up, and he had gone downstairs, I knew that wasn't good. He did not feel well when we went to sleep, I could tell. I have all sorts of theories, and they could be all wet, so will wait for tomorrow. Decided that there is no way to really prepare for the worst, so I'm not gonna.

He's crashed for now. I expect a quiet time. I have a VERY early class tomorrow, then I have an appt with the divorce lawyer (could tomorrow be any worse???) And our u/s appt is at 2pm (CA time). The vet said they often run late. I have a list of questions. I just figured that I have just enough time to run home and get him, so I'm glad that he can rest and not have to come in with me in the morning. Tough living out in the middle of nowhere, away from town.

Trying to get my work done for the next couple days, not being very successful at it. If I ignore it, it will just all go away, right?
Posted by: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/06/12 10:17 PM

Lisa, I wanted you and Max to know that me and the girls (Chey, Raya and Fuzzy) are pulling for him and you also.

I am sending some good vibes, some health and healing vibes out Max's way.

You are the BEST for Max. You have fought so hard to get him this far, you will know when Max doesn't have any gas left in his tank to fight with you. Until then, enjoy and have little parties.
Posted by: Braverhund

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/06/12 10:28 PM

Grimm is sending you and Max some of his newly-developed "Big Boy Calm" vibes. peacesign Grimm being Grimm, he hasn't many of them to spare, penguin but sends them your way. Peace and calm and enjoyment of eachother. hugging Max is one lucky dog to have you loving him!
Posted by: bianca

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/07/12 03:26 AM

Lisa I am keeping everything crossed for tomorrows/todays appointment hugging

We will all be there with you hugging hugging

Nobody could fight for Max like you are.

Could you say the dog ate your homework?
Posted by: bianca

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/07/12 05:21 AM

Lisa have you seen this thread,someone posted about this chinese herb (for bleeds)

http://www.modernherbshop.com/Yunnan_Baiyao_Yunnan_Paiyao_s/147.htm#.TzB9FBz6rqI

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/health-issues/174707-kaiser-has-hemangiosarcoma-heart-10.html
Posted by: JakodaCD OA

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/07/12 07:51 AM

ALso keeping all fingers/toes/paws crossed for a good day tomorrow for both you and Max..Val is right you are THE BEST for him:)

Just wanted to add, I am a big Chinese Medicine advocate,,have used them before and was impressed with the results so might worth looking into:)
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/07/12 09:13 AM

Just stopping to say I will be thinking of you and Max and hoping for good appointments all around.

Bunches of hugs. grouphug
Posted by: Woodreb

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/07/12 09:25 AM

Also keeping you and Max in our thoughts today. grouphug
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/07/12 10:16 AM

Sincerest thank you's, I am a wreck today.

He is not worse, so far not a lot better. Hoping the belly is better by the time I get home, I need a sign...

Maybe good I am here and he is there - mixed up energy from me today! Off to work, here I go!
Posted by: Natalie559

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/07/12 10:32 AM

Wishing the best for you and Max!
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/07/12 11:08 AM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
mixed up energy from me today!


I guess you're human.

Lots of bitten fingernails today.
Posted by: middleofnowhere

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/07/12 02:52 PM

All I can do is send my best wishes for Max. That's all I got fella.
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/07/12 02:57 PM

Sending you and Max my best!
Posted by: Kris

Re: Max Update/ruh-roh RAstro.... - 02/07/12 03:00 PM

Originally Posted By: BowWowMeow
Sending you and Max my best!


Me too! hugging hugging
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Max Update/Hemangio - 02/07/12 06:21 PM

It's bad.

Hemagio in the spleen, the tumor is about 5". Several tumors in the liver, largest is about 3". Also disbursed through the omentum.

I am bringing him home with me, to see how he does in the next few days, whether he picks up, or not.

Sh*t.

teary

My heart is breaking.
Posted by: Kris

Re: Max Update/Hemangio - 02/07/12 06:25 PM

Oh Lisa, I am so sorry... teary I just don't know what to say...
Posted by: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: Max Update/Hemangio - 02/07/12 06:28 PM

Lisa, I am so sorry for you and Max. I am positively sure that you kept things at bay for a long time with the treatment plans you worked for him.

I hate that you are going through this without some one there to help you. We can only do so much through the forum. Please know that if I had a magic wand that I could wave and make Max and all the other dogs that are not doing well on the forum I would be waving that thing for all it is worth.

grouphugfor you grouphugfor Max
Posted by: LJsMom

Re: Max Update/Hemangio - 02/07/12 06:28 PM

I am so sorry. My heart breaks for you. This is so not fair. Max has come such a long way.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Max Update/Hemangio - 02/07/12 06:36 PM

Thank you Kris, Joanne frown

Val, yes, this is really really hard.

I guess once they start bleeding, it spreads it everywhere, and as soon as it gets loose, it starts growing.
Posted by: JakodaCD OA

Re: Max Update/Hemangio - 02/07/12 06:39 PM

I am so very sorry to read this, my heart is breaking for you:( Wish you were closer. It sucks:(
Posted by: TimberWolf

Re: Max Update/Hemangio - 02/07/12 06:41 PM

Lisa, I am so sorry to hear. I so wish this would not be true. hugging
Posted by: middleofnowhere

Re: Max Update/Hemangio - 02/07/12 06:46 PM

Lisa,
It is nasty. If you catch a bleed, sometimes it gives you a bit more time. It sounds like Max didn't present until it had spread. I am very sorry. Hopefully, it will stop, he will reabsorb the blood (which he needs) and feel better for a while. I wish there were more to hope for.
Posted by: DancingCavy

Re: Max Update/Hemangio - 02/07/12 06:50 PM

This is not the news I was hoping to hear. frown I am so sorry, Lisa. Wishing you and Max the best of what time you have left together. I hope he's able to perk up and enjoy going down to the water and digging his holes again. I wish there were more I could do. I know you've been a lot of help and very supportive to me with Risa's issues. *HUGS*
Posted by: Braverhund

Re: Max Update/Hemangio - 02/07/12 06:51 PM

I'm so very sorry, Lisa. hugging Your head understands well what's happening, but your heart is dealing with such pain right now. I am wishing you comfort during a time when you're hurting. hugging Wishing you strength. Max has his best advocate right by his side, in you. May the time feel extended and rich. hugging May Max feel as well as is possible for him. I am so very sorry. I just want to fix this for you somehow.
Posted by: Woodreb

Re: Max Update/Hemangio - 02/07/12 06:54 PM

I am so very sorry to hear this. My heart breaks for you.

This is such an awful disease and I hate how silent it is.

Cherish your time with him and make the most of it.

grouphug
Posted by: TMarie

Re: Max Update/Hemangio - 02/07/12 06:54 PM

Dearest Lisa, hugging

I am so very sorry to read this. teary I wish I was closer. You have done so much and have been Max's strength through this process.

Hugs to you and kisses and head pats for handsome Max.
Posted by: unloader

Re: Max Update/Hemangio - 02/07/12 06:59 PM

Ugh, I'm so sorry Max and you are going through this. He sure is a trooper.

I can only wish the both of you many more happy days ahead. As my grandfather always said, "I'm going to live until I die."

Enjoy each day, as hard as it may be.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Max Update/Hemangio - 02/07/12 07:19 PM

I know that so many have gone through this, I've never had to face something like this. I hope I do right by him. I am afraid of letting him down. I just can't bear the thought of saying goodbye. I am glad I will have all of you to give me strength and keep me grounded.

He has become truly my partner. His job here was to accept love with grace, and that he has learned to do. He has always been so full of joy, he does not understand why there is no joy felt today.
Posted by: DancingCavy

Re: Max Update/Hemangio - 02/07/12 07:53 PM

You are an incredibly dedicated owner, Lisa. You would never let Max down. smile
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: Max Update/Hemangio - 02/07/12 08:27 PM

Quote:
I am afraid of letting him down.


That's never happened and never will. You know him best and brought him this far. Max has had so much more of life with you than he would have with anyone else.

Quote:
I just can't bear the thought of saying goodbye


This is the part that also breaks my heart for you. As soon as I read the update I burst into tears. Max has rebounded so many times I thought he might pull this one out, too with your help.

I don't know how to put it into words, but I wonder now if it is time to work on relaxing with Max. Keeping him comfortable and happy as only you can, but not spending quite so much time thinking and planning.

I wish this was something that could be beat, but we know it is not.

Spend time with Max, talk to him, tell him all the things he already knows about how special he is. Take more pictures of him and have someone take some of the two of you together.

If he can't walk to his sand, bring a bucket of sand to him and let him smell it and remember his digging time.

Why am I writing all this? You know what to do, you always have, always will.

Just love him and please share him with us, as always.

To Max hugging - your partner, your always dog
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: Max Update/Hemangio - 02/07/12 08:49 PM

I am so sorry, Lisa. I have been through this with my own dogs and with friends' dog and it is so difficult. As horrible as it is, I am glad that you know and that you can be there with him, knowing and loving and supporting him, just as you've always done. hugging

I never got the sense that hemangio was painful but simply that the bleeds sapped the life force of the dog. As hard as it was to see that, there was clarity there for me and for the dog.

We are here for you and for Max. hugging
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Max Update/Hemangio - 02/07/12 08:49 PM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
I know that so many have gone through this, I've never had to face something like this. I hope I do right by him. I am afraid of letting him down. I just can't bear the thought of saying goodbye. I am glad I will have all of you to give me strength and keep me grounded.

He has become truly my partner. His job here was to accept love with grace, and that he has learned to do. He has always been so full of joy, he does not understand why there is no joy felt today.
teary Lisa, I'm so sorry to hear that Max was diagnosed with this vile, evil, obscene disease, my heart is breaking for both of you!

Please don't worry, you've done right by him so far, you'll continue to make those difficult decisions in his best interest ... Trust yourself!
grouphug grouphug Lisa &Max grouphug grouphug
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Max Update/Hemangio - 02/07/12 08:54 PM

Lisa,

I want some poetry for you and Max. I want cymbals and angels' choirs to have any comment on what you learned.

The comment, the truth, the reality is between you and your good dog-as it always has been.

in sadness, respect, and honor,

Mary Jane
Posted by: Qyn

Re: Max Update/Hemangio - 02/07/12 09:28 PM

Shit, this is not fair at all - with all you and Max have been through too! hugging
Posted by: kaisersmom

Re: Max Update/Hemangio - 02/07/12 09:43 PM

I'm so sorry to hear of Max's diagnosis. Enjoy whatever time you have and savor the fact that Max doesn't understand why there is no joy tonight. These wonderful dogs live in the moment no matter what life throws at them - if only we had the ability to be like them sometimes - it would make days like this a lot easier. My heart goes out to you and Max. grouphug
Posted by: LukesMom

Re: Max Update/Hemangio - 02/07/12 09:51 PM

I am so sorry to hear this news. You have always been Max's champion and he couldn't have a better mom making his health decisions for him. Give Max a hug from me and take care of yourself.
hugging
Posted by: kelso

Re: Max Update/Hemangio - 02/07/12 09:57 PM

oh no Lisa teary
I am so so sorry, my heart dropped when I read this, I don't know what to say except I am thinking of you and Max so much and wish nothing but the happiest of days together for you both.

Tight hugs to your boy
Posted by: JeanKBBMMMAAN

Re: Max Update/Hemangio - 02/07/12 10:10 PM

I am truly sorry. I just thought it would be okay, again.

I know you know to enjoy things and try to relax (again, yeah) but I think the whole anticipation thing, while you are happy for the time that you have with them, is so frightening, to be brutally honest, at least it was for me.

BUT, the time you do have, is magical.
Posted by: Schnickle Fritz

Re: Max Update/Hemangio - 02/07/12 11:17 PM

i am so sorry to read this...
Posted by: Jane Jean

Re: Max Update/Hemangio - 02/07/12 11:21 PM

Originally Posted By: LukesMom
I am so sorry to hear this news. You have always been Max's champion and he couldn't have a better mom making his health decisions for him. Give Max a hug from me and take care of yourself.
hugging

I agree...and know that Max will be comforted in the best capacity possible because he has you in his corner. hugging
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Max Update/Hemangio - 02/07/12 11:23 PM

I cannot even begin to respond appropriately right now, thank you, I can't even see straight my eyes are so blurry.

Judging from tonight, Max will be leaving us sooner rather than later, I owe that to him.

I wiLl write when I can. I am helped by all of you, this is singlely the hardest thing I've ever had to do.
Posted by: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: Max Update/Hemangio - 02/07/12 11:37 PM

Lisa, if we didn't love our pets so much it would be a lot easier. This is the hard part about loving them is letting them go and be free of sickness, pain or what ever is ailing them.

Just know that you are letting Max go to be with Indy. She will take care of him.

grouphug grouphug grouphug
Posted by: mspiker03

Re: Max Update/Hemangio - 02/08/12 12:18 AM

So sorry Lisa
Posted by: bianca

Re: Max Update/Hemangio - 02/08/12 02:43 AM

teary Crap. Lisa I am so sorry, I don't know the right words. I wish I was closer hugging

Please take care of you as well. Gentle cuddles for our Max hugging hugging hugging hugging hugging hugging hugging
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/08/12 03:12 AM

If it were not for this group, I would not have understood that while I wanted Max here with me one more night, that was my want, and it meant a long night and day of suffering for him.

In the last week, from the tumors, and drinking water to replace the blood loss, he gained 4 pounds. My boy, whose ideal weight was around 75 lbs, topped at 90 today - slowly gaining throughout this whole process. He was not able to carry that weight. The large belly kept him from being able to go the bathroom properly, and he had difficulty standing and moving.

He perked up yesterday because the night before I gave him chicken and stars soup for dinner, and apple juice and whey protein for breakfast - liquid food, to give his digestive tract a break. When I fed him a regular meal tonight, he could not tolerate it, nor did he really want it. He did eat it, probably because he knew I hoped he would, he was reluctant, and it made him very uncomfortable. Regular food became no longer an option for him (and his regular food was already minced for easier digestion).

At approximately 11pm tonight, my most precious boy, the most Regal Dog that I will ever have the pleasure of sharing my life with, slipped peacefully into the other world. I did not know the vet that performed this service, but she was very kind. The vet that performed Max's bloat surgery in 2004, that we saw in the hallways here and there afterwards, was there tonight, and when he learned what was happening, he came in to be with and hold Max too.

And what I feel from him now, is relief. He has had a lifetime of pain and discomfort, but the good was always more than the bad. That changed, and from the wise folks in this forum, I was able to gather my courage and do the right thing. Of course, I questioned that as soon as I walked out, but I know it was the right thing.

rip my boy, I already miss you so much....run free and with joy butterfly
Posted by: bianca

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/08/12 03:59 AM

Oh Lisa teary teary hugging hugging
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/08/12 04:11 AM

grouphug grouphug grouphug grouphug grouphug

Lisa, I'm so sorry! It hurts so much to lose them. You both were so lucky that you had each other.

rip Run free at the Bridge beautiful Max!
Posted by: LJsMom

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/08/12 05:52 AM

Godspeed Max. He is free from this retched disease. I bet he's stalking cats with Indy.

Lisa, I am comforted knowing that you were not alone as you set Max free.

hugging
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/08/12 06:13 AM

Lisa, that you could do this for Max was a last, great act of love for him.

Sweet Max, run free at the bridge with Indy. You will forever live on in memories.

gsdhalo

Lisa, grouphug from us all.
Posted by: RileyAnna

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/08/12 06:19 AM

There are no words. I am so sorry.
Posted by: Good_Karma

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/08/12 06:54 AM

I'm so sorry. You fought so hard for him, and he fought valiantly too. If life were fair, he would still be at your side. hugging

Praying you find the strength to bear your grief.
Posted by: Qyn

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/08/12 07:20 AM

hugging Lisa. teary I am so sorry for your beautiful boy but also grateful that you got to spend a lot of the last few months with him at work, at home and amongst that wonderful scenery on those lovely walks.

RIP, Max rip, you certainly gave it your best shot, fellah. angel feelingblue
Posted by: JakodaCD OA

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/08/12 07:28 AM

I also have no words:( there's a new angel in the sky and I'm sure Indy and Max had a glorious reunion..They can now take care of each other pain free..hugs to you LIsa, for all you did for both these dogs , the love you shared will always be there
Posted by: GrandJan

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/08/12 07:29 AM

I am so, so sorry. I have followed your journey, and you gave each other such tremendous strength, the most of which you displayed last night. Max accepted your final gift to him and will return the love with the most beautiful memories you will ever have. Run free, precious Max. butterfly
Posted by: MSD

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/08/12 08:21 AM

Dearest MaxaLisa
The loss of Max, your companion is a difficult one to endure. Although I’m new here, I’m not a stranger to loss of our furry friends. I am genuinely sorry for your loss of your handsome and precious companion. His spirit lives on with all of us here who have read and those who will read his story. And so, I remind you of

The Rainbow Bridge
By the edge of a woods, at the foot of a hill,
Is a lush, green meadow where time stands still.
Where the friends of man and woman do run,
When their time on earth is over and done.
For here, between this world and the next,
Is a place where each beloved creature finds rest.
On this golden land, they wait and they play,
Till the Rainbow Bridge they cross over one day.
No more do they suffer, in pain or in sadness,
For here they are whole, their lives filled with gladness.
Their limbs are restored, their health renewed,
Their bodies have healed, with strength imbued.
They romp through the grass, without even a care,
Until one day they start, and sniff at the air.
All ears prick forward, eyes dart front and back,
Then all of a sudden, one breaks from the pack.
For just at that instant, their eyes have met;
Together again, both person and pet.
So they run to each other, these friends from long past,
The time of their parting is over at last.
The sadness they felt while they were apart,
Has turned into joy once more in each heart.
They embrace with a love that will last forever,
And then, side-by-side, they cross over… together.


May God Keep you Close Precious Boy.
Rest in Peace Max.
Sincerely,
MSD
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/08/12 08:23 AM

Lisa,

When Max joined you, you gladly accepted the responsibility to lead him through a good life. Day by day, you (and Indy) made a family for him.

His illnesses and hers only inspired you to learn more and to question more as you never lapsed in their care.

In the last act of this sacred responsibility you used all your wisdom, all your experience, and all your love.

I honestly believe that our profound communication with another species is one of our greatest privileges. I think that you agree.

Please accept my sincere condolences for your loss,
Mary Jane
Posted by: JeanKBBMMMAAN

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/08/12 08:28 AM

Oh Lisa, I am so, so sorry. What a wonderful thing you were able to do for him, from minute 1 to the end. Undoing what had been done, teaching new things, taking care of him. This is still a little incomprehensible, just because it seemed like even though he was sick, he was invincible. Your home must feel so weird, but your two are still there.
Posted by: TimberWolf

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/08/12 08:48 AM

Lisa, I am so so sorry. You have done everything you could to help your precious boy. I know words won't take your pain away but maybe it will bring at least a little comfort to know that many people here care for you and Max. Max is running free now, waiting for you at the bridge. What a beautiful and awesome reunion it will be when you two meet again. Please accept our cyper arms around you. My condolences to you. R.I.P. sweet Max.
Posted by: unloader

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/08/12 08:50 AM

Oh Lisa, I'm so sorry. I know how hard of a decision it is. You did the right thing.
Posted by: Natalie559

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/08/12 08:51 AM

teary I can't believe Max is gone. . . .I am so sorry for your loss Lisa. Know you did all you could and that Max knew love from being with you. You've touched many lives here, I wish there was more we could do to lessen your burden. teary
Posted by: LukesMom

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/08/12 08:53 AM

Max was a truly special boy and will be missed by many. I am so sorry for your loss. rip
Posted by: kaisersmom

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/08/12 09:02 AM

I am so sorry, Lisa. I wish there was something I could say to take the pain away - I feel like I just lost my own dog. Max was such a special boy to all of us - rest in peace, Max paw


A Living Love
http://www.showdog-magazine.com/Poems/poem55.htm
Posted by: DancingCavy

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/08/12 09:18 AM

I'm so sorry, Lisa. You did everything you could and more for Max. You changed his life around and gave him the best you could. Few people would go so far and learn so much to care for their beloved canine companion. Run free, Max. Join Indy and frolic free.

*HUGS* to you, Lisa. These decisions are never easy to make. Max was so fortunate to have you as his partner.
Posted by: Woodreb

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/08/12 09:44 AM

teary teary teary Lisa, I'm sorry for your loss and I know how hard and heartbreaking it is to make that final decision. But Max is free from pain and is probably planning his first squirrl hunt and sand digging expedition with Indy. Maybe Aodhán will join them for the squirrel hunt. angel

rip Max

grouphug for you
Posted by: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/08/12 10:14 AM

Lisa, I believe that we draw our strength to let our dogs go to the bridge from the love that they bestowed upon us. Their love and trust that we would always do what is right for them. Does it make it easy, no way.

I know that in your head you know you did the right thing for Max, but you heart hurts so so much.

Indy was there to welcome Max. The both are watching over you now.

Max the handsome guy fought as hard as you did to stay with you as long as he did. Some times we have to realize that we are just mere mortals and there is only so much we can do to change things to what we want.

God Speed Mr. Handsome Max.
Posted by: Kris

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/08/12 10:24 AM

Lisa, my heart aches for you... We have all come to love Max through your teachings and stories of this brave, stoic dog. He fought so hard - what more could we ever ask for. To know that he is pain free will bring some comfort to you. But the emptiness they leave behind is what is so hard to deal with. You absolutely made the right decision - one that we all know doesn't come lightly. I'm so sorry for the loss of this beautiful boy, but am comforted by the fact that he couldn't have been with someone who fought harder for him or loved him more. We will all miss you Max...
Posted by: Braverhund

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/08/12 10:53 AM

Oh Lisa, tearymy heart is breaking for you now. hugging hugging hugging You did the compassionate, caring, LOVING thing for Max. He counted on you, and you came through for him. You put your own pain aside-- to give him relief and peace. angel You were his angel in life, now he is yours. After the wildly joyful Indy-7-Max reunion, I have no doubt that Max's soft presence will keep loving watch over you, as Indy's has. hugging
Posted by: Vinnie

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/08/12 11:21 AM

I'm sorry Lisa.

rip Max
Posted by: Schnickle Fritz

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/08/12 11:31 AM

oh lisa... there are no words, i sit here and cry with you. i have been able to feel the love you have had for him through these years and know that you have made the best choice possible for him. you did everything you could and in the end, made the hardest choice for you and the easiest for him by letting him go.
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/08/12 11:44 AM

Lisa,

My heart breaks for you. I know how incredibly hard it was to let your beloved Max go. I don't really know what to say except to let you know that we are here for you, just as you've always been here for us. Your are in my thoughts and I'm sending you positive, healing energy. hugging
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/08/12 12:42 PM

As Val said, I am alone here (now more than ever frown ), and having you all here, understanding, knowing what we have been through, helps so much. Thank you for everything that you've written and the support. I am not sure I have words today.

I find that I know where my dogs have been hurting, because those specific and sharp pains leave my body when they die. As Indy got sicker and sicker, she felt less pain,and I could describe it as it happened. I didn't understand it until after she died. Now that Max has been released, I can tell where some of his pains were. I do not know if cancer was everwhere, but I do know that between the cancer and *whatever* initially had him, he had significant discomfort.

I alternate between numb and devastated. Will work on reclaiming my kitchen, putting away all the things I've needed to keep him going. I could open a mini-supplement shop, among one of the things.

I feel bad that I am unable to respond to each and everyone of you. I am just not capable, I ama wreck, but do know, please, that it all helps.
Posted by: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/08/12 12:50 PM

Lisa, I am glad to see that you checked in here. You know I am worried about you being alone at least until you find that right dog that tugs at you heart again. It will happen, when I don't know but it will.

I did have a bit of a sale after Lakota left. I had just purchased my Zymox stuff for him. Being able to ship stuff out to help other dogs made me feel a bit better.

Just take it as it comes, the alternating between numb and devastation is pretty normal.
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/08/12 12:52 PM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
I am alone here


Not if you count the cyber world. We all feel powerless to help you-except by being here.

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
I alternate between numb and devastated.


A little while after Wolf died, I said I couldn't feel anything. You told me I was in shock. You are confronting too large a change to swallow at this moment. Just please take care of yourself. We need you.

MJ
Posted by: LJsMom

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/08/12 02:00 PM

I'm glad that you listened to your heart last summer and took Maxwell on vacation. You will forever have those beautiful memories.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/08/12 04:12 PM

I was thinking of that vacation last night. I didn't really have the money to spend, but we both needed it. He was pretty sick then....we had such a nice time, yes, I will treasure it, forever: http://germanshepherdhome.net/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/168464/Max_on_vacation#Post168464

Our lives were so entwined, so much moreso in these last months....I don't even know how to process that thought at this moment.

VDI called, I had to tell them what happened. Max's blood sample will be shipped to them today, very curious to see what the result is. The first sample, I will have to look when it was, was high normal. But the low-dose pred might have interfered with it. They thought the doxy and other abx would not. I hope that study helps with this blasted cancer.
Posted by: Braverhund

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/08/12 04:16 PM

Lisa, I keep thinking about all the pictures you took of Max lately. I'm thinking of what it meant to him, having his picture taken, being at work with you, enjoying the fanfare of the students' admiration and love, digging in the sand at the park, enjoying special time with you in the sunshine on his walks, being your focus. I can only imagine how very deeply LOVED max felt, when I remember him starring in all those photos. Dogs feel it when they are our stars. Lisa, you both gave so much to eachother. But oh what a lucky, lucky boy Max was, to have YOU loving him so much. He very clearly felt it.
Posted by: TMarie

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/08/12 04:43 PM

Lisa,

I am so saddened to read this. I am so sorry. My heart breaks for you as I sit here and cry with you.

Hugs my friend.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/08/12 05:04 PM

Thank you Tammy, he is honored by all the tears of those that have supported him...and I am grateful for the hugs.

Patti, these last months, have been such an experience, and I'm so happy that Max was able to grow and experience acceptance and love by so many around him. When people were happy to see him, he would just light up, like he just won a prize.

There was an episode of Hoarders, where the boy didn't want to vaccuum up the dog hair on the floor, because he thought that would bring death that much sooner to his dog. I always felt sad for that boy. And now, I'm not so bothered by these piles of dog hair flitting around that need to be vaccuumed, or find their way into strange places. All in due time.
Posted by: Karin

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/08/12 05:10 PM

I'm sitting here reading this through my tears. I am so very sorry about Max, Lisa. It is so hard to make the decision to let them go. But you did the right thing for Max. The hardest thing is just missing them when they're gone. But he is with Indy now, and I'm sure there was a joyous reunion. I strongly believe that we will be reunited with our beloved pets when our time on this earth is over.

Max was a wonderful, once-in-a-lifetime dog. You gave him a very happy life and took care of him so well. And you're not alone--there are so many people here who care about you and are grieving along side you. You've helped so many people with advice and encouragement. We're all here for you now. hugging
Posted by: Kayos

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/08/12 05:28 PM

hugging hugging hugging teary teary teary
Posted by: Braverhund

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/08/12 05:29 PM

Lisa, just checking in to offer some extra hugging. Good for you for leaving those dogfur clumps right where they are. There's time enough later. For now, feel Max there keeping an eye on you. Your bond was so incredibly close. When we think of all the dogs who aren't their families' priorities, it sure seems like dogs like Max truly won the "love lottery" during their lifetimes. Such a beautiful boy with an even more beautiful spirit. My heart goes out to you now, Lisa. Wishing you some measure of strength as you miss your superstar who enjoyed his limelight.
Posted by: 3K9Mom

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/08/12 05:35 PM

Lisa, what I have learned, as I've held my dogs as they've slipped from my arms into whatever waits on the other side, is that those few moments are when we pay it all back.

Our dogs come into our lives. They dedicate themselves to us. They make us the center of their lives. They love us unconditionally. Even when they're sick, they almost never complain. They accept the diagnostics and treatment we give them. They remain as upbeat as possible, and peaceful. We are the most important thing to them. It's a debt that accrues day after day. And it seems like a debt that we can never repay.

But there comes a moment when we know. We can pretend not to realize it. We can want a few more minutes. (And I've certainly seen some people take those few minutes or even days). And often, the timing is terrible. It's not what we wanted. It's not how we envisioned it. It's not what we planned. But if we're honest and true; if we acknowledge the debt that we owe, we stop and right then, we stop our lives and repay that debt.

It is the most difficult -- excruciating -- thing I've ever done. And each time, looking back, I wouldn't do it any other way than the way I did it: immediately, with all the courage I could muster. Holding my pup as she slipped away from me.

I hope that you find solace from knowing that you did for Max exactly what he needed. Ultimately, that's what matters, even while your heart is breaking.

And I'm so sorry that it is. If I had words or a potion to help that, I would. I can only offer my friendship and my admiration. You're not alone.
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/08/12 05:56 PM

Lisa - your care gave Max so many years he would not have had otherwise. And if love was enough, yours for him would have kept him here forever.

Indy and Max, through you, have left such a legacy. All you learned from them and because of them that you shared here is amazing. What we then learned and even all our vets learned as we took things from the health forum to them would fill the Grand Canyon!

We all are better for both Max and Indy (and you).

I don't think anyone here expects you to respond individually, or even at all unless you are up to coming here - just accept the support and care and concern and come back to us as you can.

hugging
Posted by: GSD07

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/08/12 07:39 PM

Lisa, I am so sorry...
Posted by: Cassidy's Mom

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/08/12 09:01 PM

I am so sorry, Lisa. Cancer sucks, it takes way too many of our dogs, way too soon.

I'm glad that I was able to meet Max, and Indy too. It was just that one time, but at such a great place and they were enjoying themselves so much, that that's the memory I have of both of them - a happy day at the beach, surrounded by other GSDs and the people who love them. RIP Max.
Posted by: Kayos

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/08/12 09:44 PM

Oh 3k9mom, you hit the nail on the head. I Knew Max had his appointment on my bday. I wanted an infection for my bday gift from Max. Did not happen and now he is running free. I am just so sorry as Lisa has given so much for him. But he will be waiting for her when the time comes and he will guide her when it comes time for another pup to grace her life.

Hugging Lisa tonight! grouphug

Run free lovely Max, find my Max and have FUN!!!! butterfly

Just so sorry and did not want to hear this but at the bottom of my heart I knew it. teary
Posted by: GrandJan

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/08/12 09:55 PM

3K9Mom - you said it all. butterfly
Posted by: Jane Jean

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/08/12 10:05 PM

Lisa, I am so sorry for your loss. Max is at peace and watching over you gsdhalo I hope you feel his presence and don't feel so alone.
Posted by: Kayla's Dad

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/08/12 10:13 PM

Lisa I am so sorry for your loss. It's so obvious how much love you had for him and how much care you provided. Like Debbie, I am blessed that we had the opportunity to meet both Max and Indy that one time and see how much they enjoyed that adventure.

Max, may you and Indy run free together until it's time to meet your Lisa again.
Posted by: Bcannie

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/08/12 10:20 PM

I'm very sorry for your loss. It's so hard to say goodby....
Posted by: Barb E

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/08/12 11:47 PM

Oh Lisa, I think a little piece of my heart just broke off.
I'm so sorry for your loss of Max
hugging x infinity
Posted by: middleofnowhere

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/09/12 12:38 AM

Lisa,
I am sorry Max got this nasty disease. I can assure you that your decision was the right one. With Barker the Younger's last bleed, her hemangio had spread to the liver. (revealed on the ultra sound) The vet assured me that there was no point in letting her die naturally which she would have done within 24 hours. She would have had no joy or happiness and only been increasingly uncomfortable. When I catch myself railing about the unfairness of this and other illnesses that take our dogs, I remind myself that nature's rules do not include a concept of fairness.
The pain that comes from loosing something incredibly good is the price exacted for having that relationship - I guess it is the homage I pay.
May the good memories persist and the pain ebb. You did right.
Posted by: bianca

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/09/12 02:15 AM

Thinking of you Lisa hugging hugging
Posted by: LJsMom

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/09/12 05:38 AM

You made it through the first day of the year of firsts. hugging
Posted by: Good_Karma

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/09/12 06:17 AM

Hoping you are okay. hugging
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/09/12 08:33 AM

Waking up is really hard.

Yesterday, as my dual alarm s sounded (so I don't over sleep like today), I woke up startled, and the first thing out of my mouth was "Max, it's okay". Then I realized there was no Max. This morning wasn't a lot better.

I am late this morning, but I have no dog to feed his ground food to, with the spoon (so his nose didn't bleed), or to walk a bit after to get him eliminated before I leave, or dig the treats out for before I rush out the door, and of course, make him sit while I put the treats around the room and make him hold still for a last hug before I leave for the day.

I don't get to do all that this morning, so maybe I am not so late.

It's awfully quiet here teary

For those who wrote above, I love this forum, so many wise and supportive folks.

On my screensaver, I was looking at some of the Ft. Funstong pics when I met Samuel and Debbie and Karin and others. He had such joy, and that day he was pure goofy dog, and ran free and it is a treasured day. I had no clue at the time, but such a highlight....

Okay, off to greet whatever meets me today.
Posted by: DancingCavy

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/09/12 08:53 AM

*HUGS* to you, Lisa. I can only imagine how your heart must be aching.
Posted by: TimberWolf

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/09/12 08:55 AM

Thinking about you Lisa. Hang in there. With time hopefully, the pain will lessen and the good memories keep you going. hugging hugging
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/09/12 08:57 AM

Thank you!

I would make him lay in the bathroom when taking a showe, the steam for his lungs to help him breath. No shepherd to maneuver around today.

Took max and I a long time to figure out "space". Where I wanted to be, somehow he ended up there first, to often trip me wub we both got better about that...
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/09/12 09:15 AM

I don't have to leave any lights on. No radio, I can take all the sheets out of my car.

How do these people with dogs live like this?
Posted by: Woodreb

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/09/12 09:38 AM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
I don't have to leave any lights on. No radio, I can take all the sheets out of my car.

How do these people with dogs live like this?


grouphug I haven't had at least one dog in my life for over twenty years. I think that where you are at right now would be incredibly hard for me (even with DH here).

Hang in there.
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/09/12 09:44 AM

Hey Lisa,

Just thinking of you and sending you peace and strength. hugging I wish Rafi and I lived nearby so that we could walk together.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/09/12 09:57 AM

Johanna, it's a terrible place to be. Max got me through the loss of Indy. It's a bit like I'm losing her some again too, on top of everything.

Ruth, OMG, walking. Last night, I took out the garbage before bed, and we alsways then walk up to "the rock" (in a certain yard), touch it, and come home. I did that before bed, and...I don't think I've walked alone in over 14 years, since I've had dogs. No one to show me the *really* important things along the way. This is a foreign world to me, the world w/o a dog...


Posted by: Barb E

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/09/12 10:07 AM

hugging
I wish I had some grand words of wisdom and comfort but I can't find any.

I do hope you know that I'm thinking of you
Posted by: Braverhund

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/09/12 10:15 AM

Lisa, I understand what you mean about the old patterns you shared together feeling painful and odd now. Each new "alone" thing that you used to share together, seems to have a deep ache of wrongness. I wish Grimmi and I were closer. hugging It can feel so disorienting, after so many years. Sending you positive thoughts to help get through the dasy. Maybe just getting by one moment at a time, or, perhaps one breath at a time. bloomrose Please remember to be extra gentle and good to yourself right now. grouphug
Posted by: Kayos

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/09/12 10:47 AM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
...I don't think I've walked alone in over 14 years, since I've had dogs. No one to show me the *really* important things along the way. This is a foreign world to me, the world w/o a dog...




I do not even think I can comprehend this as I have had at least one dog for 22 years now. I do not know how I would feel or deal with that. I hope today is a better day for you.

hugging hugging
Posted by: HeidiGSD

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/09/12 10:56 AM

Lisa, I am so sorry about your loss. I know how much this hurts hugging

Michaela
Posted by: GSDBESTK9

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/09/12 11:11 AM

I'm so sorry for your loss. frown
Posted by: DnP

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/09/12 11:22 AM

Lisa, I am so very sorry to read about Max. For some reason, I could not write anything until now. I know how you feel about being in a dogless house, car...life. It's seems especially hard when for so long, you have lived and breathed being a caregiver, especially for your dogs and especially so when you are or become a one dog household.

I went through that same problem when I said good-bye to Dakota. We fought side by side for over 3 years after his DM diagnosis. His last year, he was my first thought when I got up in the morning and my last thought when I laid down to go to bed. I cannot stop crying as I read and now as I type. My heart aches for you and what you are going through.

For me, I will always think of Max and the glorious holes he dug in the sand.
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/09/12 11:27 AM

Lisa,

I keep typing and deleting because I am in such a wash of emotions about your grief. It is in part because I admire you so much as a dog caretaker and advocate and your loss is therefore so deep. It's also because I had my world view shattered when Wolf died and some of the pieces are still around me.

The changes in your household recall some of mine and I treasure the memory. To feed Wolf during megaE, first a huge mat went down on the kitchen floor, then a three step dog ladder, then his food was processed, and he mounted the steps and stretched for his bowl and swallowed with some spills-and more food processed and more stretching and then more stretching. After a short walk, I cleaned the mat and the floor. It took some time to clean the floor completely after he died.

Like everyone, I wish I could offer some comfort-but everything I try to say seems hollow and inadequate. I wish I could take some of your pain away.

Mary Jane
Posted by: Good_Karma

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/09/12 11:41 AM

Anyone who has lost knows how you are feeling right now. I remember the days following the loss of Eve, just being in a daze because I could not grasp the concept that I would never see her again. Just impossible to imagine life without her.

But days went by. It got better but it took a long time. hugging
Posted by: JakodaCD OA

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/09/12 04:51 PM

I'm not sure what to say either, because I've never been without a dog, as in EVER. I've lost dogs and tho devastating, the others helped me get thru it.

I think what makes it even harder is having devoted so much time to a dog that is sick/needs attention/elderly, and all of a sudden that dog is gone, the things I did anyway, weren't 'there' anymore to do. I remember coming home from work everynite, and taking Dodge out for a walk around the yard, cold, starlight nights that were so quiet and peaceful. When he was gone, I would sometimes imagine him being there:(

They leave such an impact on our lives, I hope somehow, you'll find some inner peace..
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/09/12 06:06 PM

Such a lump in the throat reading these stories about Max and others' dogs, now in memories only. Max has so many tears from all of us he could swim in them.

It has been a lot of years since I have not had at least one dog. I cannot imagine it. Buddy is so up my (ahem) I don't make a turn without looking down to see which side he is on. Skye is either at my feet as she is now, or where she can see me from a distance.

Lisa, I just want to hug you thinking of the hundreds of times a day you will be looking for Max, thinking it is time for something, meds, food, walks. I hope I am not adding to your sadness, just trying to understand how hard it must be for you.

Please know you are in my thoughts so much and I hope you can find some peace knowing Max has no aches, no pains and no stresses any longer.
Posted by: kaisersmom

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/09/12 06:16 PM

Lisa -

I found out today that one of Kaiser's dog friends, a Boxer girl named "Shania" had to be put down yesterday. Kaiser isn't exactly a dog-friendly kind of guy, so this girl was something special. She was 14 yrs old and had a stroke last week which left her blind and deaf. She rapidly deteriorated, and they made that gut-wrenching decision yesterday.

I know how hard it is to lose a special furkid, but after hearing about all Max was going through, and then Shania, isn't it great that we're at least able to give them one last gift and end their suffering? Of course we feel awful when they're gone, but to be able to end their suffering is the kindest thing we can do for our beloved pets.

Thinking about you and hoping you're doing ok. hugging
Posted by: DancingCavy

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/09/12 06:53 PM

I wish I were close by so I could offer some more support than just words, Lisa. I've only lived with a dog for 5.5 years but I already cannot imagine life without a dog at my side. They sneak into every aspect of our lives and leave an immense void when they must leave us.

I will always think of Max digging holes in the sand and smile. He clearly had a blast excavating!
Posted by: Qyn

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/09/12 08:24 PM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa


........ No one to show me the *really* important things along the way. This is a foreign world to me, the world w/o a dog...


The first sentence made me smile in appreciation of just how true that is and the second induced tears. I remember what it was like for me last time and there are no words to describe that to someone who has not experienced it. hugging Hugs to you, my friend, in sympathy and empathy. hugging
Posted by: kelso

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/09/12 08:54 PM

Lisa-

I came here last night to pm you about some things as Kelso was not doing well.
When I saw that Max had passed I couldn't believe it, I couldn't say anything, felt speechless and that anything I would say would be inadequate. My heart was and is breaking for you and Max.

And here I was logging on here to pm you about my problems? Seemed stupid of me. Also seemed unreal and shocking that Max was gone, so I left. I wish I could have had more courage and would have told you how sorry I was yesterday. I have been thinking of you and Max.

That's the thing, Lisa, you really do give yourself- all the time, to help others. Your knowledge and caring is pretty amazing and Max had the best owner and life a dog could have.

I take immense comfort in the fact that Kelso went to the bridge today with Max there to play with. I hope you feel the same.

Many hugs, please take care



Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/09/12 09:38 PM

Hi Lisa,

This is all so hard, all the new stuff all the things that used to seem full that now seem empty. Caring for Cleo structured my life and when she passed, even though I knew it was her time and I felt such relief that her suffering had finally ended (and she fought for me just like Max fought for you), it just felt like the bottom fell out of my world. Everything really felt unstable. And I had such a hard time with my daily existence without my little kitty there. Of course I went through the same thing with every animal that I've lost but caring for someone during a long illness really brings you close in the most amazing ways. And when they pass it is truly like losing a piece of your heart...

Big hugs going out you.
Posted by: LJsMom

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/09/12 10:42 PM

Thinking about you. hugging
Posted by: Tara

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/09/12 10:59 PM

Oh, Lisa - I'm so sorry I haven't been in this section. hugging I'm so very very sorry. hugging
Posted by: Crooked Creek

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/09/12 11:43 PM

Just not adequate words.......so sorry gsdhalo
Posted by: bianca

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/10/12 03:02 AM

teary hugging hugging
I was lost for 6 years after my last dog left. I boarded the cats and stayed with my parents for a while so as not be home with the emptiness. Is that something perhaps you could look at doing? Maybe take yourself off for the weekend somewhere. I know you still have to come home to the reality teary

What a horrible gut wrenching few days but as Steph said it's nice to think Max welcomed Kelso hugging

Take care of you Lisa.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/10/12 03:31 AM

Kathy, you said you knew this time, and on some level I knew too, but there were the loopholes that I was looking for. I was even hoping for a torsioned spleen, something fixable...

I may have waited a week too long, in hindsight, but hindsight is not fair.

Here, among those that understand the depth of loss, there is comfort, all of those that have lost ones so dear. Those that have dealt with caring for a dog with chronic disease, the Dakotas, Dodges, Wolfs, Barkers (Young and Old), Cleos, LJ's, Kelsos...oh my, the list is so long, and so many I haven't listed, but it is such a special bond that forms.

Bonnie, it does not make me feel worse, but the reality of my days. Max came into my life, and his needs, he had so many needs, I don't know why he had such a difficult path in life, but I am honored to have helped him through it and share my life with him.

Waking up from sleep is hard. In that first instant, I look for him, and in my sleepy state I relive the loss each time, as I do whenever I temporarily forget for an instant.

Steph, I don't know what to say, except that I know your anguish and grief. Kelso is probably still there with you in some form. Like Indy and Murphy, bonded together by their similarities in life and loss, it is now Max and Kelso bonded, in their similarities and loss.

Bianca, I stayed away today for 14 hours, not really wanting to come home. I have to redefine myself now. As much as I didn't want to come home, I need to be here, if only to be close to him.

It will be awhile before I get a new pup, I have to wait for the term to be over (late May), though my good friend thinks it will sooner - I do not want to live life w/o a dog here. I hope I will be ready then.

Okay, step by step, we seem to say that a lot here...
Posted by: Barb E

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/10/12 11:15 AM

hugging and hugging
Posted by: AgilePaws

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/10/12 12:52 PM

Oh Lisa, I am so so sorry! I just saw this now and I feel terrible about missing this! I wish I had the words to give you some comfort. Please know that you are in my thoughts. teary hugging hugging hugging
Posted by: GraciesMommy

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/10/12 02:03 PM

I am so very, very sorry. I cannot imagine the pain you are experiencing right now.

hugging
Posted by: Kamahi

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/10/12 07:32 PM

hugging So sorry for your loss rip Max
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/10/12 08:48 PM

wishing you a peaceful night,

MJ
Posted by: SeanRescueMom

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/10/12 09:03 PM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
Here, among those that understand the depth of loss, there is comfort, all of those that have lost ones so dear. Those that have dealt with caring for a dog with chronic disease, the Dakotas, Dodges, Wolfs, Barkers (Young and Old), Cleos, LJ's, Kelsos...oh my, the list is so long, and so many I haven't listed, but it is such a special bond that forms.


Lisa, my heart aches for you. tired I haven't been on the board due to work and came back to read your post. My eyes are blurry because I know how devoted you were to Max. I am utterly speechless and despondent. My heartfelt sympathies and deepest condolences go out to you. Wish you were a little closer to the midwest so I could be there for you. hugging RIP sweet Max. gsdhalo
Posted by: TimberWolf

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/10/12 09:04 PM

Thinking you Lisa and hoping you are ok.
Posted by: GSDTrain

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/10/12 09:11 PM

So Sorry Lisa.
I have no words. teary

You are in my thoughts. hugging

Run Free Max butterfly
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/10/12 09:41 PM

This will be my first weekend, I will try to keep busy - tomorrow getting my car aligned.

I called today to ask for a copy of the radiology report, so they have to get back to me. Told them what happened, since I took him to a different clinic that night, hard to say the words out loud. I still have an appt to cancel on the 21st, just haven't been able to.

A student shared his favorite Max memory today. In class last term, a student sneezed and no one said anything. Shortly after, Max sneezed, and everyone said bless you wub

The "what ifs" started today. I know better, and stopped them, but it's just a natural part of wanting him back I think.

When I think of how well he did, for how sick he was, for so long, I remain in awe of my magnificant boy. He was so strong and determined, like all of our dogs really.
Posted by: Braverhund

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/10/12 09:50 PM

Lisa, I'm glad you're getting your car aligned. I wish the weekend wouldn't feel so hurtful for you. hugging I think Max did so well in part because of his own strength, but also because of how proactive you were in caring for his needs. Maybe the biggest factor of all was your love for him. Max always felt so very loved, who wouldn't wanna stick around as long as possible for that? fetch Lotsa sand-digging expeditions, too. The love was so very ever-present, your bond so mutuaslly satisfying, Max really won the love lottery with you. You gave him the right gift of peace at the right moment. butterfly gsdhalo grouphug
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/10/12 09:59 PM

Quote:
A student shared his favorite Max memory today. In class last term, a student sneezed and no one said anything. Shortly after, Max sneezed, and everyone said bless you


This is a wonderful and fun story.

Bless you, Max. wub
Posted by: Kris

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/10/12 10:11 PM

Lisa, just sitting here thinking about you and Max... The sneeze story is so cute - what a wonderful memory!

Quote:
Like Indy and Murphy, bonded together by their similarities in life and loss, it is now Max and Kelso bonded, in their similarities and loss.



I have thought this same thing so many times over the last couple of days...

Take care of yourself. Sending a hug to you from all of us here... hugging
Posted by: JeanKBBMMMAAN

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/10/12 10:17 PM

I absolutely love the sneeze story. Does everyone say bless you to their dogs?

Lisa, say the word, and I will send your very own fosters to keep you busy...I have vays...elaborate systems...

hugging
Posted by: bianca

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/11/12 02:45 AM

wub Bless you Max.

hugging hugging hugging
Posted by: Good_Karma

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/11/12 07:41 AM

Even your students feel the loss. Max was surely a magnificent dog.

Cancel that appointment now. A few weeks after Eve passed, we got a call for an appointment reminder. It was kind of horrifying at the time.
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/11/12 08:25 AM

Originally Posted By: bianca
wub Bless you Max.

hugging hugging hugging


this
Posted by: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/11/12 11:18 AM

Lisa, Hope you are doing OK.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/11/12 12:27 PM

I am okay as a lost person can be frown

Leah, oh my gosh, I do not want to get that call, yes, need to address that. I am hoping to pick up his radiology report from the u/s today. Will maybe send it over to them.

Jean, you do get the odd mixes, don't you? Here, surround by pits and chihuahuas in rescues...

I really miss my big guy.

Love Hurts teary
Posted by: SeanRescueMom

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/11/12 12:31 PM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
I really miss my big guy.

Love Hurts teary


Sending lots of hugs and special thoughts your way. hugging hug hugging
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/11/12 01:43 PM

Thinking of you! hugging
Posted by: Barb E

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/11/12 02:48 PM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
Love Hurts teary



hugging x 1,000,000.50
Posted by: debbieg

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/11/12 03:24 PM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa


Love Hurts teary



I just found out about Max a few minutes ago on fb. I was gone on a trip the first half of the week. I am typing through tears. Lisa I am so sorry you are going through this. Somehow Max will still find a way to console you.

You will be reunited with Max and Indy again.

we are not that far away so please call if there is anything I can do anytime day or night.

hugging
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/11/12 04:49 PM

Stopped for lunch and have been working here a bit before I go home. I seem to be much more productive away from home than not, go figure, huh? I am glad that I have a job that I love, with supportive people there, who knew Max. The work will save me a bit and give me focus, and the people will help support me too.

Debbie, thank you. I seem to recall that you are starting to get involved in rescue, so maybe, just maybe, in a few months, you will help me find just the right pup to bring into my life. It won't be a PB GSD, wrong size, and there is only one Max, and I am looking for something a bit healthier...I have never had a healthy dog, and it would be a nice change.

Before I brought the vet in with Max and I that night (they let me have some time alone first), I told him that when he is with me afterward, he better find a way to let me know. Sometimes I think he has, and I also think that Indy might be here to sometimes, when I am in need. Certainly wish I could reach out to touch them though.....trying to practice my distance Reiki, but everything is hard....

I will post his radiology report later, looks like the tumors were larger than I was initially told, after they carefully measured. I think I had bonus time him, w/o realizing it at the time. He was very very sick. I was treating for leaky and inflamed blood vessels of an infectious nature. I think that treatment bought me that extra time, the two disease processes having overlap. I am trying to take comfort in that, and it does give me some comfort. Wondering what the VDI blood results will be, will update that thread when the results come in.

People look at me strange when I walk in anywhere, because I look a mess. I just tell them I am a mess, my dog just died, and, in that instant, people know and are understanding. With all the people that generally I find annoying and other types of adjectives, it is times like this, that restores faith a bit.
Posted by: middleofnowhere

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/11/12 07:55 PM

Lisa,
I remember a couple of dogless spells - one after my first mix died (my sammy had died a few months earlier). That one was the worst. I was pretty lost. I knew I needed another dog. It may seem disrespectful but I started looking very quickly. I worried that since I was renting and unemployed I might not pass muster. (Somehow I did anyway.)

This last time, I wasn't as lost but it was strange having the sudden free time. No more lunches running home to feed old dogs & let them out. No more positioning piddle pads, no more carefully coaxed feeding. No reason to go for walks. The drive to the barn was so long and so lonely. I had expected to wait several months. (didn't happen - the right dog was available very soon.)

To me it was almost as though BTE held on until the right dog WAS available.


There will be the right dog. I don't know that we can ever predict just when. Max will be very honored whenever you find that right dog.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/11/12 09:15 PM

Middle, it sounds so much like here. Just that I can run errands and get things done, without worrying about a sick dog at home, is just so foreign.

I know that any dog will be the right dog in many respects (they are all worthwhile!), but I sure would like to know that I will find the really right dog, not even sure where to start, but I guess I will just follow my instinct.


Ultrasound report frown I thought the units were inches, but they are cm, so the tumors are not as large as I originally thought. Doesn't really matter I guess, though, if they were inches instead of cm, for some reason, made me feel like they were there longer and he would have suffered more.

Posted by: debbieg

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/11/12 09:33 PM

Lisa, the right dog will find you. Max and Indy will see to that.
Posted by: DancingCavy

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/11/12 09:34 PM

I think the right dog finds us. And I feel that way with pretty much any pet we bring home. It just feels right.

I started my dog search in May 2006. Almost as soon as I knew I could finally have a dog. I wasn't finding what I wanted and I was getting super impatient! It wasn't until the end of June I found a dog that sounded perfect. Didn't pick her up til midway through July. Though she wasn't exactly what I wanted, she was the dog I needed. And I believe, without a doubt, she was supposed to be mine. smile

Take whatever time you need to heal. Search if it feels right. Things will line up when it's time and a new friend will enter your life. And that will be one fortunate dog. laugh
Posted by: Schnickle Fritz

Re: Max Update/Hemangio/he's gone - 02/11/12 10:56 PM

i train with folks that run a big rescue in woodland.although they have mostly big dogs, rotts, pities, gsds there are a