Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP..

Posted by: kelso

Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/13/11 09:49 PM

Hi
I rarely ever post here in health, sorry for that frown I need some help/somebody to bounce ideas off and you all are the best. Kelso has already been to the vet and some labwork obtained, just thought I would come here in the interim/see what you guys thought.

It almost feels crazy (and maybe you all can tell me I am crazy and that would be good!) to post about and makes me sick to my stomach as I think about dogs like Dena and other young dogs that have been sick suddenly- Kelso just had his 5th birthday Sept 3rd and we have been having a grand old time last week as I was on vacation. So we were outside alot, playing ect.

Last Friday (Sept 9th) we went to the vet as he was due for a booster. He was great (charming with the dogs and staff there) and received his DHLPP. Everything was great. Friday night he was a little tired and Dan commented on that but we both thought it was because he had a big day.

Saturday (Sept 10th) we got up and played ball a bit. Then I walked him to my mom's house about 1.5 miles away (it was nice out, leisurely). There he met my mom's dog Anna outside for a walk. She was adopted about 1.5 yr ago and has been healthy except for bad allergies. Again, he was good....REALLY good actually (maybe the first sign that I should have noticed...) we walked with my mom and then came back to her house, he played some more ball, and then we walked home.

The only thing strange is that at the end of our walk I noticed that his back nail was bleeding, I thought I had heard some scraping but thought I was crazy. His back nail had been a little long and had either chipped off/worn down from the walk. It stopped bleeding quickly, not alot of blood loss. I was however a tad worked up as I thought he was dragging his nail? Still not sure if it was just that long or what. So I wanted to keep a close eye on his gait and things.

obviously it was a full day, we don't regularly walk that much and that far, but he is pretty active everyday and has been his whole life, we have walked since he was a pup. No health problems to that date except for a strained muscle, sebaceous cyst.

Saturday night he was just pooped, but he has been pretty tired in the past after we get home from my mom's though. He didn't want to eat much (about 1/2 of his bowl of kibble) we are not feeding raw at all right now - he is eating Nature's Variety. Which I thought was strange he NEVER has EVER not eaten his food, even kibble, but he did eat most. I shrugged it off a bit and thought maybe it was that he was sore or his toe hurt, he was walking ok.

Sunday he was lazy all day. Strange for him, but again he had seemed to mello out just the tiniest in the last year or so. He also turned down his kibble flatout (really strange) so Dan bought some Merrick canned and he ate that (not the best I know) and we started talking about how we were concerned. No other signs, drinking well, bright eyes and all. It was late in the day so we went to bed.

Monday (yesterday) Dan called me at work and said he was taking him to the vet right that second, he had went home for lunch like he does everyday and Kelso was tired getting out of his kennel and for the second day flatout refused kibble and the canned food now.

So he took him in and they kept him the rest of the day for observation. His temp was 103.6, so not crazy but a little elevated. Did not give him fluids as the vet said he did not look dehydrated. They commented that he did breath heavy at times while there for a few hours but looked ok. Labs were obtained. We told them everything about being active all week, the nail (the said it looked fine and trimmed up the rest of the back smile

He was tired last night, he ate some canned food, still drinking well. Today Dan called at 730 am for the lab results and the vet was in surgery, came home at lunch and Kelso again refused the food. I got my things to start coming home and the vet called me on my cell (it was not our reg vet, a vet that said she was just there for a few days this week and had seen him yesterday?) Anyway, she said she thought she found the reason he was tired.

She said his counts were "low" (hemoglobin, hematocrit, white blood cells/red blood cells), kidney/lytes and liver enzymes within normal limits. Did not appear dehydrated from the labs. She said she was trying to get the results of the SNAP 4, but they would likely get back in the am. I do not have the exact numbers, asked if I could get them but it was to late in the day to make it.

She did not think we needed to take him to the emergency vet unless he was not taking liquids/or other symptoms, basically the plan is to come and leave him there in the morning, she said she would likely start him on doxy.....

I know it could be a bajillion things and something minor?, but am terrified like I said after what has happened to dogs on the forum frown My mind is racing with tick/ strange infection/cancer/hemangio/autoimmune hemolytic anemia... or
related to the DHLPP (I was reading there are reports of that being associated with hemolytic anemia?)

he has perked up a little since I have been writing this (figures) and seems like he is trying to do what he usually does, just muted, chewing on a nylabone now smile

I called the emergency vet just because, so they are aware of him and said he could see an internist there tomorrow as well (it is a multi-specialty clinic and 24 hr ER)

so..tell me I am crazy. Please!

thank you SO much for reading (sorry about the detail..yikes!)
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/13/11 10:15 PM

Poor Kelso and poor you. What a worry, but good that the vet seems to be on top of this.

You may want to get a fecal sample in the morning, so they can test for any blood in the stool. Any chance of parasites or worms?

My sister's aussie had immune-Mediated Hemolytic Anemia (IMHA) about a year and a half ago. It was caught soon due to her seeing the differences in her dog, just as you have and she made a complete recovery.

So it is good you are already working on this.

I know others more knowledgeable will be checking in, but I wanted to say I hope it is something readily treated. hugging

Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/13/11 10:24 PM

hugging hugging hugging hugging hugging hugging hugging

I wish you were crazy, but it sounds like your vet is on top of things.

There are two main reasons why a dog crashes with anemia after boosters. Either it's from the vaccine and the vaccine alone - that's the hemolytic anemia that you were reading about - or there was a subclinical disease process going on that the vaccine triggered into a more virulent form. These disease processes tend to be either a tick disease, or cancer. With the fever, I would tend to tick disease too, and I would treat, regardless of what the SNAP says, we have many examples on the tick list of the SNAP being negative and more extensive titer tests being positive.

Do get a copy of the blood test, and if there has ever been a previous blood test, looking at a copy of that would be helpful too.

I would be very aggressive with this. The aggressive dose of doxy on the tick list is 5 mg/lb twice a day, which is roughly twice what many vets prescribed. The idea is to hit it hard and fast and long, to maximize recovery and minimize chance of recurrence. With a crash like this, treatment will need to be for several months. If there isn't a response to doxy, then you go looking for other things. You should know within a week if he is responding.

You might ask your vet if he can feel kelso's spleen on examination, to see if it's enlarged.

The good news, and, yes, there is good news, is that you caught this right away, you acted immediately, and it sounds like (at least so far!), you have a vet that is right on top of things.

I'm so very sorry, but I'm hopeful that you and your vet will get kelso past this hugging
Posted by: kelso

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/13/11 11:03 PM

Thank you guys so much for responding. For some reason it just makes me feel better to talk to people here smile

Bonnie, I am so glad your sister's dog is doing well now! smile Sounds like they were really on top of it

I am trying to get a fecal, he was due for one (the yearly screen) friday...but the last time I have witnessed him "go" was saturday at my mom's (diarrhea). I am sure he maybe went sometime in the morning when Dan let them out. The vet said to not worry to much about him not going as he has not eaten alot, but would be so nice to get that dang sample! I keep going with him everytime outside (he needs some coaxing to actually get up off the futon to go frown

Lisa, thank you, thank you. I was hoping you would respond.
Kelso did have pre-op bloodwork before his neuter 3/2010 that was "normal"
I will try to get copies of the blood work from then and yesterday tomorrow.

Also, as a side note Allie has been fine, a little antsy.

His lethargy has seemed to come and go tonight..he got one burst of energy about 845 pm for 5 minutes but hasn't moved since. He ate some food at that time. Mostly today if I feed it to him from my hand, but did eat some canned on his own.

thanks again, hopefully will know more in the am
Posted by: Cassidy's Mom

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/13/11 11:35 PM

Oh, no - I'm so sorry Kelso is sick. Please keep us updated as you get news. hugging
Posted by: kelso

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/13/11 11:51 PM

Thanks Debbie!

I was thinking about Dena alot hugging (went back and read the old thread on the other forum today) and was wondering if she had had a recent vaccine before she was sick? I know she had lymphoma but thinking when Lisa mentioned vaccines could sortof bring that sortof thing to the surface when it was already there? Just curious as I know it was around her birthday as well (so possible time for vet appt ect)

Hope he gets well soon, this house is soooo quite!
Posted by: Cassidy's Mom

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/13/11 11:55 PM

We'd gone to Hawaii at the end of April that year, and she did get a booster of something in order to board her while we were on vacation. I don't recall off the top of my head which vaccine she was due for, but I think Lisa T asked me about vaccines in an email and I looked up the vet records, which is why I remember. So that was about 5 months prior, so I don't know if that was significant or not.
Posted by: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/13/11 11:57 PM

Steph, Thinking of you and Kelso. grouphug
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/14/11 12:14 AM

Hi Steph,

So sorry Kelso isn't feeling well! Would he eat homemade food?
Posted by: Qyn

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/14/11 01:25 AM

Geez, Steph I did not expect to read this but you and Dan have got onto this ASAP and it sounds as if your vet is also proactive. I'm hoping this turns out to be a minor problem which is easily rectified.

Just for information as I am not pre-guessing anything, my employer's Malamute had AIHA but this was when she was nearly 10yo and they had not recognised the symptoms until it was well, well advanced (just thought that age was slowing her down). There was talk at the time of trying a blood transfusion but it did not get to that point. I just spoke to my boss and he said it is more common in female than in male dogs so Kelso has that in his favour.

I have finger toes and eyes crossed for Kelso that this is soon sorted out and he is back to his normal self. hugging
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/14/11 01:25 AM

Originally Posted By: kelso
Kelso did have pre-op bloodwork before his neuter 3/2010 that was "normal"
I will try to get copies of the blood work from then and yesterday tomorrow.

His lethargy has seemed to come and go tonight..he got one burst of energy about 845 pm for 5 minutes but hasn't moved since. He ate some food at that time. Mostly today if I feed it to him from my hand, but did eat some canned on his own.

thanks again, hopefully will know more in the am


You will want to get some probiotics.

There is a wide "variation" in what is normal on these tests - maybe those older ones will have a clue as to a "trend".

hugging

eta: regarding AIHA - if the RBC's are too low, they will want to use pred, in case it's hemolytic anemia of some sort. If this is the case (I don't know what the numbers are, platelets are also important here), then it's really super important that all doses of pred are accompanied by aggressive doses of doxy.
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/14/11 02:25 AM

Originally Posted By: kelso
...
I know it could be a bajillion things and something minor?, but am terrified like I said after what has happened to dogs on the forum frown
...
... or related to the DHLPP (I was reading there are reports of that being associated with hemolytic anemia?)
...
hugging hugging hugging hugging hugging hugging
OMG Steph, I just saw this. The DHLPP/Hemolytic anemia is the first thing that popped into my mind as I was reading your message. I'm so thankful you and Dan recognized there's a problem and jumped on it right away. You're in my thoughts and prayers that he has a quick recovery.

Please give him a big hug (Allie too)!!!
Posted by: FurKids

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/14/11 02:35 AM

I don't think you're the least bit crazy. It definitely sounds like there's *something* going on w/him that needs vet attention. It's even more worrisome when a dog shows signs of illness or pain because of their ability to hide this from humans.

When your child is sick, they can verbalize and tell you what's wrong. I don't know of any kids who hide being sick - it's a day home from school <g> but by the time you see something in a dog it could already be more serious than had you been able to tell sooner.

I hope whatever it is turns out to not be serious and fully treatable. Please keep us posted. Hugs and puppy slobber to you and Kelso.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/14/11 02:37 AM

Originally Posted By: FurKids
When your child is sick, they can verbalize and tell you what's wrong. I don't know of any kids who hide being sick - it's a day home from school <g> but by the time you see something in a dog it could already be more serious than had you been able to tell sooner.
This is a great point.
Posted by: Islandgsds

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/14/11 06:47 AM

Steph, I'm not able to give any medical advice. I'll leave that to more experienced members. I just wanted to let you know that I am thinking of you and Kelso and will send healing vibes. hugging
Posted by: GSDBESTK9

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/14/11 08:15 AM

Hoping he is all better soon! Let us know.
Posted by: AngelJ

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/14/11 09:16 AM

hugging Sending good thoughts to you and Kelso. Hoping he feels better soon.
Posted by: aubie

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/14/11 10:13 AM

Ugh, reading this made my heart drop! But I'm so glad you guys are vigilant and have a good vet! When's the next appt/test so you might know more?

Poor Kelso...giant hugs to you all! grouphug
Posted by: Kris

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/14/11 10:36 AM

Oh Steph - my heart dropped too... You're right on top of this, so that is huge. Sending lots of good and healing thoughts to Kelso. Will anxiously look for udpates. Hugs to you and Dan too - it's so stressful when you don't know yet what's going on... hugging
Posted by: kaisersmom

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/14/11 11:35 AM

Ray had a reaction to either his vaccines or to the ProHeart 6 injection way back when and that was bad enough. All the best to Kelso for a full, quick recovery from whatever is going on! hugging
Posted by: Sylv

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/14/11 11:53 AM

You guys are in my thoughts - get well soon, Kelso!!!
Posted by: GSDTrain

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/14/11 12:05 PM

Get well soon Kelso. Keep us posted! hugging
Posted by: Heidifarm

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/14/11 01:42 PM

I hope Kelso gets better soon!!
Posted by: AgilePaws

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/14/11 01:56 PM

Sending good thoughts to Kelso!
Posted by: TMarie

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/14/11 04:18 PM

Oh no, I'm so sorry to read this. Sending many good thoughts and healing vibes.
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/14/11 06:37 PM

How is Kelso doing today?
Posted by: Kayos

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/14/11 06:58 PM

Just saw this. Any news on Kelso? Hoping he is recovering.
Posted by: DancingCavy

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/14/11 07:17 PM

How scary! Sounds like you acted quickly, though, and have a good plan of action. I do hope Kelso is feeling better soon and that you can get a handle on what's going on.
Posted by: bianca

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/14/11 08:59 PM

Sending my positive thoughts to both you and Kelso, hoping he is doing a bit better today hugging
Posted by: Barb E

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/14/11 09:10 PM

I hope Kelso is doing better today!
Posted by: Wolfie

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/14/11 10:08 PM

Poor Kelso.

I'm hoping, and praying for good news today. hugging
Posted by: Jane Jean

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/14/11 10:14 PM

Please check in Steph!! I am keeping Kelso and you in my thoughts and prayers...hugging
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/14/11 10:21 PM

I've been peeking in for an update - worried about you guys hugging
Posted by: kelso

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/14/11 11:21 PM

Hey all

thanks so much for all the support, man what a great bunch, I really appreciate it

Im so sorry it takes me so long to get here to update. I had night clinic tonight at work. I also have to warn you that my updates are not entirely detailed and such at this point as I am mainly getting the info from my husband, who has been taking Kelso to the vet and talking to the vet mainly. I asked him a few times today to make sure he gets copies of labs and everything to specifically know what meds he is getting...he is trying but did not bring copies home and can't remember it all, I think he is worried and frazzled. I feel bad as I know he is trying and unfortunately I just came back from vacation so work has been hectic with my own patients and I can't get out of work to go with Kelso frown Dan is trying very hard and very thankful he is able to go to and from with K! I did talk to the vet briefly today.

Hopefully will have some of the lab stuff to scan in tomorrow.
Kelso spent monday at the vet and Dan took him back again this morning as planned. He stayed there all day and they said he was silly :), so that is good...but sick. Temp was 104.6. SNAP 4 was negative, specifically he said negative for heartworms, erlichia, lyme, anaplasma (Lisa is that what the SNAP 4 contains?)

They have not repeated the counts but are concerned. The vet said his spleen was not palpable, but we had not seen a BM in a few days so he did a rectal, soft stool so I think they got a sample.

When I talked to the vet he basically said he thinks it is autoimmune or a primary bone marrow problem (such as cancer) he thinks infection is apparently less likely? but he said he honestly is not sure at this point as he has had a fever... he got an injection of antibiotics (this is where info is missing as Dan does not know what) and steroids (for the autoimmune part like you were saying Lisa)

The vet called the specialist today to discuss the case as he is considering doing a bone marrow biopsy. The specialist did not want to do this at this point and is thinking that we need to get an US and xray. Kelso will likely have to be sedated for this (as the vet said even with a 104.6 fever he is.... playful hug) Which I wonder about and Kelso makes me laugh as I think he is about a 4 on a scale to 10 of energy since this all started...wondering if they really know what Kelso's 10 is!! hehe

So he is going back tomorrow in the morning to stay again and I think they are planning on discussing about what all we should do if he is going to have to be sedated anyway.

Kelso is tired, no change except he ate his kibble. He gets these bursts of energy for 5 min and then lays around for the next two hours, I think he gets tired off and on when he is having a fever. He did howl with Allie at the ambulance sirens today though!

I just have such a sick feeling frown but am trying to stay positive for him. He is trying so hard you can tell to feel better.

thanks again, you all are an invaluable source of knowledge and support, and prayer are MUCH appreciated
Posted by: Islandgsds

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/14/11 11:37 PM

Thanks so much for the update, hugging Kelso is still in my thoughts and prayers. hugging
Posted by: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/14/11 11:46 PM

Steph, I am with the specialists and not jumping to the bone marrow biopsy before some other tests.

Kelso, sending you some really good strength and healing vibes.
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/15/11 12:46 AM

hugging hugging hugging hugging hugging hugging

Thanks for the update!!! I know how frustrating it is to have such a sick dog and not know what's wrong. Continuing to keep you, Dan & Kelso in my thoughts and prayers!!! Hang in there!!!

hugging hugging hugging hugging hugging hugging
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/15/11 02:31 AM

Steph, does the vet have him on doxy while they are trying to figure this out?

Yes, the SNAP4 tests for what you said. BUT we see a lot of false negatives with that on the tick list.

Personally, I wouldn't do the bone marrow thing.

It's pretty straightforward really. Playing the game of odds, depending on the labs...you either try doxy and see if there is improvement, or you try doxy and steroids if the labs are life threatening low. There are a few other things this could be, but those are less likely, and treating in the manner above, won't hurt and may help in those cases too.

There is no harm at all in starting doxy at this point as a trial. It is an anti-inflammatory and helps in infection. autoimmune, and cancer. It is cheap and non-invasive, and has the chance of a high pay off.

I will be thinking of you guys tomorrow hugging
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/15/11 03:10 AM

You might want to contact Jean Dodds at hemopet. She works with a lot of cases of vaccine reaction. I have her protocol here - in fact, it's printed out and sitting not 5 feet from me, since it was under consideration in treating Max.

I'm on my phone, so can't look it up, but please google "immune-mediated hematologic disease and bone marrow failure" for more info.

That is for vaccine reaction. Me? I would try doxy first, or couple the above protocol with doxy for protection.
Posted by: bianca

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/15/11 04:37 AM

I am keeping Kelso in my thoughts and prayers hugging Hoping tomorrow shows something simple and easy to treat.
Posted by: Qyn

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/15/11 04:49 AM

Thanks for the update, I have been thinking of Kelso today at work. Hoping for some good news soon.
Posted by: aubie

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/15/11 10:19 AM

Thanks for the update. So sorry you don't know more...times like this you wish they could talk so they could tell you how they're feeling! Keep us updated, hugs and prayers for you all!
Posted by: GraciesMommy

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/15/11 10:29 AM

Has he had the "L" before? We had 9 dogs in 2 months have reactions to the lepto vax at work.

I have no advice but sending lots of hugging and crossedfingers for a quick recovery.
Posted by: DaisyShadow

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/15/11 10:31 AM

I am in tears, I feel your pain and worry. Did not want to come here like you said to get the full update. Sounds so serious, and yet I am praying, praying, praying, he turns around and pulls out. As you said he is TRYING so hard to do. That is all he needs his will, good vets and lots of prayers. You, Dan, he and Allie have this all. The forum is here for you. After all these years of you being there for everyone. You need them now. Read and let them do what these wonderful GSD people do best, support. Love you so much, so many tears now. Call me when you can. We live so close and I have yet to meet him, like you have Shadow. YOu are so protective of his high energy. I really think, you believe he will pummel me, hee, hee. I know it is hard to see him this way. Be strong my friend.
Posted by: JeanKBBMMMAAN

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/15/11 10:52 AM

Hoping you get good information from the x-ray or ultrasound. Are you near the vet teaching hospital?
Posted by: DaisyShadow

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/15/11 10:53 AM

After reading all the pages, I am feeling it is a reaction to the shot. He is going to pull through Steph, I just know it. Like everyone said you were on this. He had previous blood work, etc. Hugs to you.
Posted by: Catu

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/15/11 11:13 AM

I've not posted before, but I'm reading and wishing for Kelso too
Posted by: AgilePaws

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/15/11 12:05 PM

Keeping you and Kelso in my thoughts.
Posted by: Natalie559

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/15/11 12:49 PM

Thinking of you all today and hoping for improvements!
Posted by: kaisersmom

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/15/11 12:56 PM

Quote:
We had 9 dogs in 2 months have reactions to the lepto vax at work


Not to hijack the thread, but isn't that an unusually high number?? Kinda scary.

Get well soon, Kelso!!
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/15/11 02:04 PM

Please get well, you good dog, please.

MJ
Posted by: msvette2u

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/15/11 03:37 PM

I'm new here but have studied the lepto vaccine due to having our rescue.
We won't use it ever here, none of my own dogs have ever had the lepto vax.
I'm seeing vets use it on all dogs regardless of lifestyle or history and I'm encouraging our adopters to either refuse it or at least ask the vet to justify using it.
We were getting many emails and calls from adopters who brought their dog in to see their own vet post-adoption and the dog became ill "after it's shots". When asked what vaccines were given, or specifically, did the dog get a lepto vaccine, they reply affirmatively. I'm shocked and amazed that vets don't even ask or give people information on this vaccine.

http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/depts-vth/vaccinations.aspx

It is not even a core vaccine, meaning (IMO and according to these guidelines) most the dog population may not even be at risk, so why not "offer" it but explain risks v. benefits??
Posted by: msvette2u

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/15/11 03:38 PM

And please, God, be with Kelso and help him heal quickly so his mama and daddy can get back on with their lives. He's a sweet boy and needs your help!! Be with his veterinarian as well so that they can figure out what's wrong and how to treat it!
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/15/11 05:05 PM

Originally Posted By: kelso
...
Last Friday (Sept 9th) we went to the vet as he was due for a booster. He was great (charming with the dogs and staff there) and received his DHLPP. Everything was great. Friday night he was a little tired and Dan commented on that but we both thought it was because he had a big day.
...

Originally Posted By: GraciesMommy
Has he had the "L" before? We had 9 dogs in 2 months have reactions to the lepto vax at work.

I have no advice but sending lots of hugging and crossedfingers for a quick recovery.
I know this is a dumb question, but just in case it is the Lepto portion of the vaccination that's affecting Kelso, do you, or anyone else who has had experience with a reaction have any tips or suggestions that could help Steph and her vet resolve the problem (besides the suggestion of putting him on the Doxy and maybe Pred)?
Posted by: kaisersmom

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/15/11 08:28 PM

When Ray had the reaction to either his routine vaccines or to the ProHeart 6 - which I guess could've been to the Lepto part of the vaccine, the vet put him on a short course of Prednisone. But his reaction was not hemolytic anemia. In Ray's case, he became sort of wobbly and disoriented, his lymph nodes swelled and he developed a huge bump at the site of injection. The Prednisone helped and everything returned to normal eventually. The big bump at the injection site took awhile to go away completely, but it eventually did.
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/15/11 08:44 PM

It could be a reaction to any of the vaccines, correct? Or the combination? I know there is a Chinese herb used for IMHA. I will look for it.

Sending healing thoughts to Kelso!
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/15/11 09:47 PM

Originally Posted By: arycrest
I know this is a dumb question, but just in case it is the Lepto portion of the vaccination that's affecting Kelso, do you, or anyone else who has had experience with a reaction have any tips or suggestions that could help Steph and her vet resolve the problem (besides the suggestion of putting him on the Doxy and maybe Pred)?


Yes, the protocol of Dodds' that I mentioned before, and definitely combine it with doxy for protection against infection, and added anti-inflammatory action. It's really pretty straightforward, treatment just needs to *start*, and then modify depending on how the dog responds. If it's cancer (please no!), that throws a monkey wrench in things.

I suspect that Steph will not want to add an herbal at this point, just a hunch.

If there is an infection triggered by the vaccine, suppressing the immune system runs a risk, thus the addition of the doxy. Again, depends on what the values the labs are.

Hoping that you are making progress with Kelso Steph crossedfingers
Posted by: kelso

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/15/11 09:52 PM

Originally Posted By: arycrest
Originally Posted By: kelso
...
Last Friday (Sept 9th) we went to the vet as he was due for a booster. He was great (charming with the dogs and staff there) and received his DHLPP. Everything was great. Friday night he was a little tired and Dan commented on that but we both thought it was because he had a big day.
...

Originally Posted By: GraciesMommy
Has he had the "L" before? We had 9 dogs in 2 months have reactions to the lepto vax at work.

I have no advice but sending lots of hugging and crossedfingers for a quick recovery.
I know this is a dumb question, but just in case it is the Lepto portion of the vaccination that's affecting Kelso, do you, or anyone else who has had experience with a reaction have any tips or suggestions that could help Steph and her vet resolve the problem (besides the suggestion of putting him on the Doxy and maybe Pred)?


Interesting. I got all the paperwork today. Was looking back through it after reading this. Kelso had never had the "L" until 11/2009 where the notes mention the change in the protocol and he received Lep alone. Looks like he got one shot and was supposed to have a booster in 3 weeks but cannot remember if he did/don't see it on the records that I have. The next "L" shot I see is the 9/9/11 DHLPP.

Jen- when you say reaction what exactly was happening?
Posted by: kelso

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/15/11 10:08 PM

I have all the numbers if anyone is interested. Didn't want to jam up the posts with the pics (couldnt get them scanned so took pics of the pages). Will post the pics if you want.

The main thing after looking at the labs that I saw was low reticulocyte count, slightly elevated alk phos, slightly elevated AST, slightly elevated total CK, slightly elevated amylase-not sure bout that!, moderately decreased platlets (50-120), decreased RBC, Hemoglobin 9.5, Hct 29.7, low neutrophils (10), and elevated lymphocytes (85). Preop CMP from 2010 unremarkable, no CBC done.

Kelso had a ok day. He was started on doxy and prednisone (IM yesterday). US/XRAY were negative for any abnormalities. They checked out his heart during the US for good measure.

Plan is to continue the meds and recheck his labs in a week. Temp was 99.1 after the injection of dexamethasone.

He is home from the vet and resting peacefully, a little naked from the shave (dang, his fur is as thick as carpet!!)

Thanks again, off to look at the links.
Would love to here about the treatments you know of Ruth smile
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/15/11 10:14 PM

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8884713

http://www.cloudnet.com/~jdickson/ (terrible yellow color in background though!)

http://www.vetnet.co.uk/cgi-bin/gen5?run...t&subject=7

http://www.rottweilerhealth.org/pdfs/IMH_diseases.pdf

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/preparing-say-good-bye/142129-my-dear-friend.html

contact Jean Dodds: http://www.hemopet.org/contact.html
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/15/11 10:55 PM

Written by a vet with a dog with IMHA: http://dogtime.com/imha-patrick-mahaney-integrative-veterinary-medicine-treatment-part-2.html

Can't find the Chinese herbs but will keep looking!
Posted by: Cassidy's Mom

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/15/11 11:11 PM

So, does the vet think it's IMHA? I really hope it's not.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/15/11 11:11 PM

Originally Posted By: kelso
I have all the numbers if anyone is interested. Didn't want to jam up the posts with the pics (couldnt get them scanned so took pics of the pages). Will post the pics if you want.

The main thing after looking at the labs that I saw was low reticulocyte count, slightly elevated alk phos, slightly elevated AST, slightly elevated total CK, slightly elevated amylase-not sure bout that!, moderately decreased platlets (50-120), decreased RBC, Hemoglobin 9.5, Hct 29.7, low neutrophils (10), and elevated lymphocytes (85). Preop CMP from 2010 unremarkable, no CBC done.

Kelso had a ok day. He was started on doxy and prednisone (IM yesterday). US/XRAY were negative for any abnormalities. They checked out his heart during the US for good measure.

Plan is to continue the meds and recheck his labs in a week. Temp was 99.1 after the injection of dexamethasone.

He is home from the vet and resting peacefully, a little naked from the shave (dang, his fur is as thick as carpet!!)


I am glad that he is home resting peacefully.

I just didn't think you'd want to start on herbs when you don't quite know exactly what is going on yet, but it's always good to have the herb on hand, or to at least look into it. I'm not sure what herbal they use for this, so I'm interested in what it is too!

I will be interested in seeing the bloodwork when there is a second set to compare with, so up to you on if you want to post it now or not? Since you typed out all the abnormal stuff, that's very helpful.

Was lipase included on this test? Many times it's not, just curious if it was normal, or not included.

Is the ALT at the higher end of the normal range then? With the elevated ALKP and AST, I would consider using a liver support product, like Country Life's Liver Support Factors.

The low reticulocyte count says that the bone marrow is having trouble making new red blood cells. The low neutrophils I guess, also made by the bone marrow, so it's having trouble making both. What is more telling is whether the values that are not normal are the percentage values, or the absolute values. If these abnormal values are percentages, that's not as bad as the absolute values being abnormal. Whether these are percentages or absolute values also tells more about what is happening with the lymphocytes. Elevated lymphocytes don't help rule anything out unfortunately - some lymphocytes are elevated in chronic infection, others are elevated when antibodies are increased, so it's not very specific . Are the monocytes low, mid or high in the normal range?

The bone marrow can be suppressed by a pure vaccine reaction, or by chronic infection, or both, but when it gets to this point, then it needs the steroids. The remaining question is if there is a hidden infection. SO GLAD the vet has covered the bases. The tricky part will be which drug to wean off first.

What dosage of doxy is being used? Also curious about the dosage of pred, since I've been looking at pred doses for Max.

No matter what the cause is, at this point, the treatment is all the same. It really depends on how low those abnormal numbers are. With the liver involvement, and the increased CK (increased muscle breakdown in the body), and the amylase, I"m tending to believe there is an infectious component, but it's so hard to say - maybe the AIHA forum above will have some insight into that. It will be important, as he gets better (and he'll get better!), do you wean off the pred or the doxy first, which is the million dollar question.

It's also possible that he was a carrier of lepto, and the vax triggered a more virulent form. Again, even if it's lepto or tick, IF there is an infection, they are both treated by doxy.
Posted by: kelso

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/15/11 11:47 PM

Holy crap!
I was reading the Jean Dodds article and she states est mortality 28-70% for immune mediated....
He did not have elevated bili which she states is associated with decreased survival, guess that is a positive note.

I read all the links Lisa, most of the GSD forum one..not all, but enough to see what happened and that the dog passed away frown

What do you think Lisa? I will contact Jean Dodds. Do you want to see the raw numbers?

The way I am looking at this right now is that it is an infection (possibly curable?), autoimmune (looks bad) and cancer (maybe worse).

I am worried that his retic count is low...essentially the bone marrow not responding properly....and also the lymphocytosis/thrombocytopenia/neutropenia picture.
The path report specifically said "given the cytopenia seen in other cell lines and intermediate size of the majority of lymphocytes, en emerging lymphoid neoplasm, leukemia or stage V lymphoma cannot be ruled out" But also stated Ehrlichiosis might cause a lymphocytosis.

He is on Prednisone 30 mg twice a day for two weeks (what the script is for)
Doxy 200 mg twice daily for 30 days (script length) He wa 75 lbs at the last visit, down from 80 at the previous visit.

Dan is encouraged as he doesnt have a fever and is acting a bit more like himself but I hate this that I feel he might just crash again, I guess I should not get worked up before we check labs next week.

Jean - we are about 2 hours from Kansas State Vet School, so not far at all if need be. You did not say much....which scares me sick

Kelso tonight at home with his pacifier smile Tomorrow will be the first day all week he is not going to the vet to stay during the day (except for tues)



Naked! His fur looks like a carpet sample

Posted by: kelso

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/15/11 11:55 PM

Originally Posted By: Cassidy's Mom
So, does the vet think it's IMHA? I really hope it's not.


The vet says he does not know for sure, but his plan basically said that was his number one rule out (as well as immune mediated thrombocytopenia) He wanted to try to rule out tumor/hemangiosarcoma with the xray/US. Still doesnt rule out leukemia or lymphoma though. He wants to treat for possible tick infection and autoimmune destruction and go from there like Lisa was saying.....
Posted by: kelso

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/16/11 12:17 AM

Labs from 2010, before his neuter



Current

Absolute counts and the rest , if you need the absolute count reference ranges I can post them (they are out of the pic) They did do lipase


















Posted by: kelso

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/16/11 12:27 AM

the absolute counts with range

Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/16/11 12:31 AM

We're going to be posting again at the same time...

Originally Posted By: kelso
Holy crap!
I was reading the Jean Dodds article and she states est mortality 28-70% for immune mediated....
He did not have elevated bili which she states is associated with decreased survival, guess that is a positive note.

I read all the links Lisa, most of the GSD forum one..not all, but enough to see what happened and that the dog passed away frown

What do you think Lisa? I will contact Jean Dodds. Do you want to see the raw numbers?

The way I am looking at this right now is that it is an infection (possibly curable?), autoimmune (looks bad) and cancer (maybe worse).


I think because you have a trigger event and you were right on this, and are not treating with steroids alone, it looks very good. We can never rule out cancer (still might be true for max here too....), but, considering everything, I think it's low on the list. I think it's clear that the vaccine triggered something.

I hesitated including enya's thread, but you are already leaps and bounds ahead on this one, but it's a cautionary tale frown rip

I don't know if Dr. Dodds is as generous with her time as she used to be, but she is usually very good. If Kelso responds, you shouldn't have to go to the big guns. It's the non-responsive dogs that require her protocol. Her protocol requires *high* doses of immunosuppressants, I don't know if she would use that on Kelso now, an email doesn't hurt....

Quote:
I am worried that his retic count is low...essentially the bone marrow not responding properly....and also the lymphocytosis/thrombocytopenia/neutropenia picture.

I know a dog on the tick list that wasn't making *any* RBCs (it was not tick related), and with Dr. Dodds' help/protocol, the dog pulled through. Kelso is making RBCs, just not quickly. For Max here, about 3 days on "only" 20 mg of pred total per day, and his RBC's and platelets shot right up higher than they have ever been, very healthy mid-range for him, . It may not take much for Kelso to respond, I am so hoping that this is what will happen with him.


Quote:
The path report specifically said "given the cytopenia seen in other cell lines and intermediate size of the majority of lymphocytes, en emerging lymphoid neoplasm, leukemia or stage V lymphoma cannot be ruled out" But also stated Ehrlichiosis might cause a lymphocytosis.

I'm just really happy that they have ehrlichia in the back of their minds and are covering it. On the tick list, for a dog with symptoms (and this would be one heck of a symptom), it is recommended to treat for two months. Jakoda treats fro 3 months, at the aggressive dose. Some on the list even recommend that you treat on your own if the vets do not want to do this. The aggressive dose is about twice as much as you are giving - it is 5 mg/lb twice a day. One of my mistakes with max in earlier years may have been not treating aggressively enough.


Quote:
He is on Prednisone 30 mg twice a day for two weeks (what the script is for)Doxy 200 mg twice daily for 30 days (script length) He wa 75 lbs at the last visit, down from 80 at the previous visit.

Those things will probably change as you start seeing the blood results. Assuming that this protocol does the trick (and it very well may!), you will start the pred taper, and I hope continue the doxy.


Quote:
Dan is encouraged as he doesnt have a fever and is acting a bit more like himself but I hate this that I feel he might just crash again, I guess I should not get worked up before we check labs next week.

He will probably respond quickly, but, with that dose of pred, you will start seeing some of the typical pred affects soon (drinking water, peeing, maybe panting).

Even sick, he still looks very handsome wub

And yes, what an amazing thick coat!
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/16/11 01:13 AM

On the bloodwork, just a few things....

Large platelets are new platelets that the body is busy churning out.

Low normal lipase, elevated amylase and ALKP, might be just everything is inflammed and a bunch of the enzymes are going nuts - the inflammation might be blocking things like the gallbladder, etc. A lot of this is recoverable - Indy had a ton of grossly elevated numbers once when she reacted to SamE of all things.

The toxic neutrophils makes me think infection, but I don't know....they are very low - they might have been low before the vaccination, you just don't know.

The absolute reticulocyte is 8,300. They consider 60,000 and above is regenerative anemia. So my understanding is that this is non-regenerative anemia, particularly combined with the production index?

In the 2010 bloodwork, the sodium was low, and the potassium was at the high normal range. My first thought there would have been a follow-up down the line, because that can be indicative of Addison's disease. In the recent bloodwork, that problem isn't there, so probably isn't an issue, particularly because he has been so healthy. The only reason I even mention it, is because a quick search showed that Addison's Disease can cause non-regenerative anemia. Just writing this down in case it's needed later. I think this is highly highly unlikely.

I'm just going to believe that Kelso will respond to the current treatment - no reason at this point to believe otherwise hugging

Posted by: kelso

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/16/11 01:14 AM

thank you Lisa!

Wanted to see what you thought of the labs now that I posted them?
Sorry I can't sleep!

Funny that you say that about the panting, he is panting heavily behind me right now after sleeping for a bit, I opened the window it is cool out.

wub my boy. He did look nice in that side shot with his orange cuz, eh?!? I think he is a little vain smile

I think he looked ok today, still strange though, like he sunk in in the last week, think he has lost 5 lbs or so....

Labor Day almost 2 weeks ago



Today



Thinking of your Max... how is he today?
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/16/11 01:25 AM

LOL, yes, we keep posting at the same time!

I wub that picture by the fence - always!

Yes, they will look "sunk in", and pred will cause more muscle wasting with the bony skull, and it will break your heart. Some whey protein might help support the muscle through this, I don't know. Goat whey, hemp whey? This is also the look of an ehrlichia dog, though many things (including pred), can cause this. Remember, it's a necessary evil.

I had to up Max's pred dose, so I'm battling with the necessary evils too, but, so far, we are not going immune suppressive doses, which are needed for Kelso.

Funny, isn't it. For immune suppression, you give immune suppressive dosages? That's to stop the immune mediated damage, but I also find it odd and try not to think about it too hard.

Do try to get some sleep!
Posted by: Emjworks05

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/16/11 01:28 AM

I am praying for your boy, I hope he gets well soon.
Posted by: kelso

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/16/11 02:09 AM

Thank all of you so much for the support hugging
Glad to see you around these parts Kelly..come visit Kelso while he is most likely NOT to pummel you smile heheh, Though I can't guarantee Allie won't do it in his place smile for fun

Lisa, I can't thank you enough, thinking of Max as well.
I noticed the pre-op labs but was thinking with an elevated BUN and slightly bumped up Crt with low Na+ that it was probably a fasting lab thing (dehydrated)- had not had anything to drink since midnight deal. A few bags of normal saline should have fixed it right up! (I think he did have fluids during the surgery)

Guess one day at at time for now until labs next week!

thank you guys again. I am expecting the worst and hoping for the best at this point as Kelso just isn't himself, he perks up for a few minutes, but still is really not like Kelso 2 weeks ago. He is trying so hard paw
Posted by: bianca

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/16/11 04:10 AM

Steph adding my thoughts and prayers for handsome Kelso hugging
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/16/11 04:12 AM

hugging hugging hugging hugging hugging hugging

Sick as he is, Kelso's still as handsome as ever.

FWIW when Ringer was so sick with Lupus the vet originally had him on 80mg of pred a day which put him into remission (he was weaned off the pred slowly). A couple months later the symptoms returned and that time they used a course of Azathioprine to control it (he stayed in remission after this). The side effects of Azathioprine weren't nearly as harsh as they were with the pred, in fact I can't recall any obvious side effects from it.

Keeping you all in my prayers!!!

hugging hugging hugging hugging hugging hugging
Posted by: Qyn

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/16/11 05:28 AM

This is the first thing I read today. Hoping Kelso and you can get some good rest time to aid recovery.
Posted by: JeanKBBMMMAAN

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/16/11 08:24 AM

Checking in on you guys.

Any of your fellow DO friends have any ideas either? I didn't say much because I am not exactly sure what is wrong with him and don't know enough to hazard a guess - and I figure you know any of this stuff that I MIGHT have a clue about!
Posted by: DaisyShadow

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/16/11 09:42 AM

Yes, I am lurking...I am not going far, in case there is news...and you are not calling....I think I am calling YOU today to see if you or Dan need help. He is home today right? Hope still on the up swing. AND yes I will come see him, just give me a time. Maybe take Allie for a walk??? How do you use those smily faces...I forget, insert one here.....
Posted by: aubie

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/16/11 09:49 AM

I hope you guys can find some answers! Frustrating! But Kelso is still hunky as ever!! Hugs!! hugging
Posted by: AngelJ

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/16/11 09:53 AM

More good thoughts that Kelso will be feeling better soon.
Posted by: GraciesMommy

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/16/11 09:58 AM

Steph, Symptoms were vomiting, diarrhea, lethargy. I am not there full time so I don't know if they came back for blood work later or how things turned out. I know we pulled the vax from our shelves. I"m not certain of the manufacturer. This happened in April/May I believe.

I hope Kelso is better soon. What a nightmare for you hugging
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/16/11 02:18 PM

Wishing for a good day for Kelso.

And hoping for a more definitive diagnosis--I skimmed through the stuff you posted and there are a lot of possibilities in there...
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/16/11 03:34 PM

Originally Posted By: BowWowMeow
Wishing for a good day for Kelso.

And hoping for a more definitive diagnosis--I skimmed through the stuff you posted and there are a lot of possibilities in there...
thumbup I second this!!!
Posted by: Cassidy's Mom

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/16/11 09:12 PM

I keep checking in, hoping for some good news....
Posted by: JeanKBBMMMAAN

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/16/11 09:35 PM

Yep - sitting in the waiting room, reading a Highlights with you, Deb!
Posted by: kelso

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/17/11 12:06 AM

Originally Posted By: JeanKBBMMMAAN
Yep - sitting in the waiting room, reading a Highlights with you, Deb!


rofl2 I loved Highlights!

Nothing new today, no bad, no good, thanks for checking in on Kelso smile He is acting the same, muted version of himself. I think his face looked better today, brighter maybe? Still not eating fabulous, but he is crazy he will eat his pred and doxy plain out of my hand! But we are shoving it in a slice of hotdog now, he is on the thinner end of what he should be and he has a soft spot for processed meat smile

Dan called the vet today to ask about the vaccine and possibly that he missed a dose and did not get a call back today.

I agree Ruth, lots of things that are out there based on the labs. Hence my diarrhea of the mouth last night, I was analyzing/thinking all night. Realized today that we will not know much until the labs are done next week so I should just stop freaking out, probably non productive on my part. Dan has to keep me in check, lol.

though I do wonder about a bone marrow biopsy...I know a couple of folks have mentioned that they would not do it....anyone here that would want/think it should be done sooner than later?

I want him to enjoy himself, but do not want to take out his b-a-l-l as I am afraid it will wear him out to quickly or even more I am afraid he will not act like he usually does with his b-a-l-l and I always said the day Kelso does not go nuts for it is the day I will know he is sick. And I sorta don't want to know that.

So I guess that is it for now.

Besides a multivitamin, what would you all recommend to supplement to his diet as he is eating less and needs all the nutrition he can get right now? I was thinking of getting some tripe, he loves that.

Posted by: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/17/11 12:30 AM

Steph, as someone who has given Antibiotics to several dogs you need to change a few things, don't worry it is just a few tips I have learned.

Unless directed by the Vet do not give ABX to dogs on an empty tummy. Food first then ABX. I have gone so far as to sit on the floor and hold food in my hand to get a dog to eat before giving ABX. What to feed, here is my rule, any thing they pretty much want unless there is a food allergy or intolerance. I usually home cook if one of my dogs is sick and not really wanting to eat. I go heavy on the proteins and light on the grains, I have to watch the fat content with one of my dogs but not the others. I do some veggies in the mix also. Skinned chicken or lean ground meat, some oat meal, some carrots, some green beans and maybe some eggs. Don't really worry about a balanced diet, getting food in is the most important part right now.

Then get some human grade probiotics from a health food or refrigerated section at the grocery store. Give the probiotics at least 2 hours away from the ABX, I usually go 4 hours.

Sending Kelso some hugs. Steph, just breath in and out. Take things one step at a time.
Posted by: kelso

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/17/11 12:35 AM

Originally Posted By: JeanKBBMMMAAN
Checking in on you guys.

Any of your fellow DO friends have any ideas either? I didn't say much because I am not exactly sure what is wrong with him and don't know enough to hazard a guess - and I figure you know any of this stuff that I MIGHT have a clue about!


I did take the labwork in to work, my DO/MD attendings were in the same boat with the same differential. They do not know anything about the immune mediated stuff in dogs, so most said infection right off the bat (but the anemia is strange)...or cancer or a hemotoxin (less likely). One attending commented that he does not think he is hemolyzing as his total bili is not elevated.

But they really didn't know, the thing about doctors is that none of us want to really go out of our comfort zone, which I think can be good/safe as long as you refer to someone that knows more about it, the most they had to say is that they will be thinking of Kelso. They also were amazed that there were all these specialists for dogs...cripes. I was telling them how we had an internist on the case and that I had taken Kelso to a canine ophthalmologist in the past (once) and some of them looked at me incredulously ...

They have been nice though. I have a 13X9 of Kelso hanging on one of those xray boards in my cubby and I have had people at work write nice sticky notes about how handsome they think he is and stick them to his picture and I find them later. So when they saw me in distress they asked "is that the dog hanging on your wall that is sick?" They always say.. the brown one (Kelso) or the black one (Allie) it is pretty funny. They try to understand!

I actually have a fellow resident who had a dog go into acute pulmonary edema last week frown he was in the doggy ICU and the vets think he had a pulmonary embolism...ugh, poor dog. He is doing ok now.

Posted by: kelso

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/17/11 12:46 AM

Originally Posted By: Wisc.Tiger_Val
Steph, as someone who has given Antibiotics to several dogs you need to change a few things, don't worry it is just a few tips I have learned.

Unless directed by the Vet do not give ABX to dogs on an empty tummy. Food first then ABX. I have gone so far as to sit on the floor and hold food in my hand to get a dog to eat before giving ABX. What to feed, here is my rule, any thing they pretty much want unless there is a food allergy or intolerance. I usually home cook if one of my dogs is sick and not really wanting to eat. I go heavy on the proteins and light on the grains, I have to watch the fat content with one of my dogs but not the others. I do some veggies in the mix also. Skinned chicken or lean ground meat, some oat meal, some carrots, some green beans and maybe some eggs. Don't really worry about a balanced diet, getting food in is the most important part right now.

Then get some human grade probiotics from a health food or refrigerated section at the grocery store. Give the probiotics at least 2 hours away from the ABX, I usually go 4 hours.

Sending Kelso some hugs. Steph, just breath in and out. Take things one step at a time.


thank you Val hugging We do make him eat first, he ate some kibble last night and that is when he ate the pills alone right after. He needs the extra cals so will definately be putting them in something from now on.

Will try some boiled chicken maybe? He is eating the kibble, just not as much, so was kindof thinking of just adding a little something to it to make it more delicious and calorie/nutrition dense?

thanks again!
Posted by: kelso

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/17/11 12:50 AM

Originally Posted By: DaisyShadow
Yes, I am lurking...I am not going far, in case there is news...and you are not calling....I think I am calling YOU today to see if you or Dan need help. He is home today right? Hope still on the up swing. AND yes I will come see him, just give me a time. Maybe take Allie for a walk??? How do you use those smily faces...I forget, insert one here.....


Hope to talk soon. Dan went back to work a week after his surgery! Pretty amazing! As soon as he started to feel almost 100%, K got sick frown So that is why he was staying at the vet as we are both at work during the day.

Allie would love some extra attention, we should set up a time soon! smile I am on call tomorrow but maybe this week.... Again, nice to see ya here paw German Shepherd people are the best
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/17/11 12:57 AM

Did you add a good probiotic? I am not a fan of multivitamins but when my dogs are sick I do cook for them. I think they get a lot more bang for their buck out of fresh foods as opposed to pulverized kibble.

That's just me though. smile

Glad he is holding steady and still wishing for the best!
Posted by: kelso

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/17/11 01:06 AM

We have fed raw, but honestly Ruth I do not know how to do homemade. Help! I am either going to learn it or go back to Urban Wolf which is fabulous. I am willing and eager to learn.

Pulverized kibble, yikes! I think something with his anemia makes him not like it. He will turn his nose up at "dry" things but loves wet (ice cubes, meat, cheese).

What good probiotic do you recommend?

I will go to the moon and back for my guy, but am the first to admit I do not know anything about having a sick dog, and for that I appreciate any and all advice.
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/17/11 02:22 AM

Originally Posted By: kelso
thank you Val hugging We do make him eat first, he ate some kibble last night and that is when he ate the pills alone right after. He needs the extra cals so will definately be putting them in something from now on.

Will try some boiled chicken maybe? He is eating the kibble, just not as much, so was kindof thinking of just adding a little something to it to make it more delicious and calorie/nutrition dense?

thanks again!


Originally Posted By: kelso
We have fed raw, but honestly Ruth I do not know how to do homemade. Help! I am either going to learn it or go back to Urban Wolf which is fabulous. I am willing and eager to learn.

Pulverized kibble, yikes! I think something with his anemia makes him not like it. He will turn his nose up at "dry" things but loves wet (ice cubes, meat, cheese).

What good probiotic do you recommend?

I will go to the moon and back for my guy, but am the first to admit I do not know anything about having a sick dog, and for that I appreciate any and all advice.
hugging hugging hugging hugging
As long as they aren't having intestinal/stomach problems, I've always given sick Hooligans basically anything they want to eat and worried about the nutrition later. IMHO once you get them eating goodies they usually will start eating the good stuff if you wean them on it slowly.

While these aren't suggestions for long term care, if he's not eating his meat raw, as long as you can boil water you can usually come up with something they find tasty. I'd even try mixing a small amount of the pulverized kibble in with a lot of the broth if you start cooking his meat, like a sloppy gruel, maybe let a little cheese melt in with this soupy mess and let it cool. You have to watch out what you pulverize the kibble with, when Yukon developed mega-e I initially used my coffee grinder and burned out the motor ... got a blender which worked.

When Bruiser was a baby he almost died. He refused to eat anything. I finally got him to eat Beechnut Stage 1 baby food (beef & beef broth, chicken & chicken broth, and turkey & turkey broth) by rubbing it on his gums and then he'd have to lick it off ... messy but it worked.

And of course there's the good ole standby of chicken and rice if all else fails they usually like it.

GOOD LUCK & give him a hug from us!!! wub
hugging hugging hugging hugging
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/17/11 04:22 AM

Good diet suggestions smile think about how you would feed a normal person in your household if they are sick, and just modify that for a dog to be higher protein and dog safe foods. Indy did great on meat, eggs, veggies. Max is meat and misc veggies.

Tripe is a great idea. I have also always fed a multivitamin, still do, consider it insurance. For Max, who can't eat a variety of foods, I do add some hemp protein, and might try some goat protein.

Doxy in particular is pretty bad on an empty stomach.

I would give 500-1,000 mg of l-glutamine with the probiotic, in capsule form, mot tablets, or powder mixed in something like apple juice. I think liver support is important here, between the disease process and the meds, the liver is taking a hit. Iherb.com usually has the best price on Country Life's Liver Support Factors.

I'm glad that he had a "steady state" day. I'm hoping that you did see a hint of improvement that will just keep getting better!
Posted by: Castlemaid

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/17/11 06:37 AM

Hope Kelso gets better, I am so sorry for you guys going through this.
Posted by: bianca

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/17/11 09:47 AM

Thinking of Kelso hugging
Posted by: JeanKBBMMMAAN

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/17/11 09:59 AM

I make a meat cake with ground beef and anything (almost) in the fridge. So usually some meat, some tater or rice or even pasta (one of them), apples, canned plain pumpkin, zucchini or green beans, then I bake it in the oven, and top it with cheese. Not too much, but they like that cheese! You can put in muffin/cupcake things too so it's smaller. It's pretty moist. And the apples smell so good baking. So funny, whenever I put anything in the oven, they think it's for them. With the anemia, spinach might be a better green choice. There are websites that list heme foods for the iron content. I think sardines are high too? I would not feed liver. Too junky.

Cute about your DO friends - they do that for dogs?!?! rofl I love that they put stickies up on your brown dog. laugh

For the bone marrow biopsy - I think very painful? Cornell did a bajillion tests on Nina to get her diagnosis and they didn't go to that so I am thinking there must be a lot of other things in between - blood cultures, etc, to get a diagnosis. But maybe new blood work would show a different picture now!
Posted by: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/17/11 10:23 AM

Steph, you can make a meatloaf like Jean said or I just grab a big stock pot and make a stew. When my dogs are sick they like something they can just lap up and not chew.

If ABX could be a long course treatment, starting now keeping the tummy happy and healthy will be good.

Don't worry that you are going to mess something up, you really can't it is like fool proof cooking. My dogs will eat pretty much any thing homemade, just start simple and then you can add more things or change things as you go along. If you are thinking chicken, then think chicken soup; chicken, carrots, and celery (celery is good source of Vitamins as are the carrots)and maybe some rice or noodles. I like the stew or soup because I am giving them liquid at the same time.

Try to serve the food at room temp. Cold food hurts the tummy.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/17/11 03:23 PM

In addition to what Val and Jean said, I bake Max's meat on a broiler pan in the oven so that it's not sitting in the drippings (line the pan with aluminum foil for easier cleanup. You can also use a crockpot for more tender meat, etc.

I store a bunch in the fridge, but add water from an electric kettle to warm it up.

I think Jean is right about the pain of the biopsy. Also, the payoff is that it often doesn't alter the course of treatment. The big question, is how will that change what you are doing now, and, from the little that I know, the answer is not significantly?

I enjoyed reading about the pic and the ctickies too - neat smile

I hope that Kelso has a good day today, meanining not worse, and some signs of improvement.
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/17/11 03:52 PM

i usually make a sickie stew. If they are ok with grains then I use quinoa, brown rice or oatmeal and also sweet potatoes and cook it with some meat. Double cook the grains with twice as much water--should be mush. If he can handle chicken then I'd go with chicken thighs. When everything is cooked I fold in some eggs (so that they cook into the mix). Tripe is great and I add in pureed kale (lots of vitamins in that, including iron) and pureed carrots. I like to keep those raw so add those after things cool. You might add in a little pumpkin because it's a prebiotic. And I wonder about a tiny bit of liver to help with the anemia?

For probiotics I always buy stuff from the health food store in the refridgerated section. I choose the one with the most strains.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/18/11 10:07 PM

Just stopping by to say hi to Kelso and crew....
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/18/11 10:45 PM

I was hoping we'd have an update by now.
Posted by: kelso

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/18/11 10:56 PM

Sorry guys! I was meaning to update earlier but was looking through all the other threads. Nice to be around here more again and see other's posts and what they have been up to.

THANK YOU! So much for the food suggetions, trust me I will be on it. They sound very good, made me hungry!

Low key weekend, Rainy, gloomy (actually the kind of weather I like!), I was not home yesterday and last night as I was at the hospital.

Dan said Kelso did good, just hanging out. Today he was off and on energy, so no change there. Like you said, steady is good. I stopped and got Kelso and Allie raw bones, so they enjoyed those. Some tripe to. And a new bed for Kelso to lay in the family room, he tore up the last 4 or so but maybe he will think the new one is comfy wink

Took some pics, he got his nose in some mud a bit today!!!!! wub Happy about that, he just gets tired fast.

Kelso and his new toy, can't a guy get any rest around here!?!?!? hug Its one of the wubba snugga soft kong things



Posted by: arycrest

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/18/11 11:15 PM

hugging hugging hugging
Love those pictures, especially the second one, darling!!! wub

So happy that he showed interest in his bone ... that great news!!!

Thanks for the update!!!

Give him some extra hugs!!!

hugging hugging hugging
Posted by: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/18/11 11:49 PM

Steady is good.

Give Kelso and big hug from all of us.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/19/11 01:01 AM

wub Love the pics wub

Just a thought, at some point, you might want to run some bloodwork on Allie (CBC for sure), just in case it's tick stuff, if they both picked up the same stuff. Sure hope not.

Looks like Kelso is just going to have to enjoy all the extra loves and attention wub
Posted by: bianca

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/19/11 05:48 AM

I just want to plant a smooch on his nose wub
Posted by: Qyn

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/19/11 08:49 AM

I love muddy dog noses - hoping he's back to his "fence peering" best as soon as possible. hug
Posted by: GraciesMommy

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/19/11 10:13 AM

I just want to smooshie face that sleeping picture. <kiss> <kiss> <kiss> <kiss>
Posted by: aubie

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/19/11 10:34 AM

I was hoping to come back and find out something had been discovered, but I'll settle for DARLING Kelso nose pics!! wub

Hoping this week finds something! crossedfingers
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/19/11 10:54 AM

Kelos and his wubba are so sweet. Slow and steady - I hope Kelso continues to make a little progress each day and finds some energy to play a little.
Posted by: Kris

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/19/11 10:58 AM

That second picture is so sweet...and the muddy nose just adds to the sweetness of is face... wub A little progress each day is wonderful!
Posted by: Jane Jean

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/19/11 08:52 PM

Good to see him paws crossed resting at home...his face just melts me! I agree, steady progress is good to read about.
Posted by: msvette2u

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/19/11 09:01 PM

I'm so glad he's home, and holding his own...here's hoping you are able to figure out what's going on soon!
Posted by: kelso

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/19/11 11:28 PM

Thanks all smile He was struggling to keep his eyes open in the pics!

Today was a good day for Kelso. The first real improvement we have seen. Brighter eyes, bouncier, barking out the window, getting toys out of his box smile I understand that many of the disease processes could probably have ups and downs so am cautiously optimistic, but nice to see.

Obviously the meds have helped I think...will be going this thursday to check labs again, I unfortunately have to go out of town friday night through saturday so Dan will hopefully have the labs by friday and will update as soon as I can when I get back!

can't express enough thanks! hugging


Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/19/11 11:34 PM

Originally Posted By: kelso
Today was a good day for Kelso. The first real improvement we have seen. Brighter eyes, bouncier, barking out the window, getting toys out of his box smile I understand that many of the disease processes could probably have ups and downs so am cautiously optimistic, but nice to see.


This is good! I know that you will remain vigilant, but thank goodness for the better days smile

Anxious about that labwork!
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/20/11 04:18 AM

Originally Posted By: kelso
Thanks all smile He was struggling to keep his eyes open in the pics!

Today was a good day for Kelso. The first real improvement we have seen. Brighter eyes, bouncier, barking out the window, getting toys out of his box smile I understand that many of the disease processes could probably have ups and downs so am cautiously optimistic, but nice to see.

Obviously the meds have helped I think...will be going this thursday to check labs again, I unfortunately have to go out of town friday night through saturday so Dan will hopefully have the labs by friday and will update as soon as I can when I get back!

can't express enough thanks! hugging


groovy Love hearing positive reports about your handsome boy!!!
Posted by: DancingCavy

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/20/11 08:25 AM

So glad to hear some positive news. Hope Kelso's on the rebound!
Posted by: aubie

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/20/11 09:55 AM

Way to go Kelso!! happyboogie
Posted by: msvette2u

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/20/11 10:15 AM

That is awesome! I'm glad he's improving and it just may be the start of a turn-around for him!

I remember when Conan had the energy to bark at the garbage truck, after his ibuprofen scare, and it was such a relief I couldn't be mad at him or tell him "be quiet", all I could do is breathe a sigh of relief...
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/20/11 11:35 AM

Originally Posted By: kelso
smile Today was a good day for Kelso.



....the first of many, I hope.

Keep it up Kelso,
MJ
Posted by: kaisersmom

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/20/11 10:15 PM

Glad Kelso is feeling better!! smile
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/20/11 11:43 PM

I hope Kelso continues to improve!
Posted by: Cassidy's Mom

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/21/11 09:47 PM

I just love the pictures of him with his toy. wub Does the vet have any theories on what's wrong?
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/21/11 09:54 PM

Hoping for a good blood draw tomorrow - I'll be anxiously awaiting the results.

I hate these slow processes - I'm not very patient!
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/22/11 12:29 AM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
Hoping for a good blood draw tomorrow - I'll be anxiously awaiting the results.

I hate these slow processes - I'm not very patient!
DITTO!!!
Posted by: bianca

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/22/11 04:24 AM

Any more updates yet?
Posted by: aubie

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/22/11 10:15 AM

pacing
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/22/11 08:21 PM

Originally Posted By: kelso
...will be going this thursday to check labs again, I unfortunately have to go out of town friday night through saturday so Dan will hopefully have the labs by friday and will update as soon as I can when I get back!


We'll be hoping that Kelso has a good weekend, and anxiously awaiting for you to return!
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/23/11 11:54 AM

Any updates?
Posted by: middleofnowhere

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/23/11 06:25 PM

I don't think we'll get any updates until Monday.
Posted by: kelso

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/25/11 12:40 AM

Hello

Thanks for thinking of Kelso smile I tried to get here soon!

Some good and some...eh

The good is that he is really acting himself. wub Last time I posted on tuesday he was about 70% now probably 90%, but not sure how much that is the steroids giving him the extra zip. I also have not seen how tired he gets with activity as we have not really let him do much except hang out in the house, but he definately is SO much better than a week ago.

He de-faced, de-stuffed that cute snugga wubba I posted him snuggling with last week....so I knew he was feeling a bit more like himself smile No fever, eating good, just overall would not notice that much is wrong except for he pees ALL THE TIME!!!!! wink because of the steroids.

The eh....His labs are not improved, in fact just a hair worse frown Still "pancytopenic" White blood cells (were actually normal last time), hemoglobin, and platlets are all low.
White blood cells 4.0 normal range (5.7-16.3), last week 5.7
Red Blood Cells 3.85 (5.5-8.5), last week 4.15
Hemoglobin 9.2 (12-18), last week 9.5
Hematocrit 29.4 (37-55), last week 29.7
Platlets 66 (164-510), last week it just said about 50-120


The report still commented that "neutrophils appear slightly toxic" but the neutrophils were in the normal range, absolute lymphocytes were low this week 840 (1000-4800) and last week they were high (4845).

The reticulocyte count was normal this time (1.0) so that may be good, hopefully means his bone marrow is responding. Last time it was 0.2


I talked with our vet and he had seen Kelso all day on Thursday as he stayed there throughout the day as we were at work. He was happy that he was acting so great and was very encouraged then! He was a different dog at the vet for sure, they definately noticed that he felt better vs last week. But after getting the labs back and before contacting us he spoke with the internist to ask what they thought and if Kelso needed to go to them since the labs were not better.

The internist said we should hang tight as he is improved clinically and continue the meds as is, recheck a CBC (labs) next week again, if his counts have not improved and/or worsened at that time he will go see the internist for further workup ect. Maybe the labs are lagging behind the treatment?

The working diagnosis at this point is Immune Mediated Hemolytic Anemia (IMHA, Immune Mediated Thrombocytopenia (ITP), but my vet did say today that other things such as infection, cancer have not been totally ruled out as we do not know the underlying cause, or if it is a primary process and there is not any underlying disease. Or if it was the vaccine... I need to ask him more about this, I talked to the on call vet that day about it and she did not think so, but have not talked to our personal vet about it.

So, that's all for now I guess. I am just so happy Kelso is happy right now smile
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/25/11 01:26 AM

Thanks for the update! So glad that Kelso is feeling like himself again and destuffing his stuffies. groovy

That is worrisome about the labs though. Since the pred is an immuno suppressant it can hold things in check but, of course, doesn't treat the underlying problem. I still wish you had a more definitive diagnosis.
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/25/11 07:12 AM

Surely, Kelso's behavior reflects the whole dog, so killing toys must be good.

I'm a the edge of my knowledge here, but reticulocytes ought to reflect new production from bone marrow-and the more mature cells may the increase later. Well, no need for me to guess, you'll know more next week.

Can you return the stuffie for a free replacement?

MJ
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/25/11 07:25 AM

Originally Posted By: kelso
...

The good is that he is really acting himself. wub Last time I posted on tuesday he was about 70% now probably 90%, but not sure how much that is the steroids giving him the extra zip. I also have not seen how tired he gets with activity as we have not really let him do much except hang out in the house, but he definately is SO much better than a week ago.

He de-faced, de-stuffed that cute snugga wubba I posted him snuggling with last week....so I knew he was feeling a bit more like himself smile No fever, eating good, just overall would not notice that much is wrong except for he pees ALL THE TIME!!!!! wink because of the steroids.

...
I talked with our vet and he had seen Kelso all day on Thursday as he stayed there throughout the day as we were at work. He was happy that he was acting so great and was very encouraged then! He was a different dog at the vet for sure, they definately noticed that he felt better vs last week. But after getting the labs back and before contacting us he spoke with the internist to ask what they thought and if Kelso needed to go to them since the labs were not better.

The internist said we should hang tight as he is improved clinically and continue the meds as is, recheck a CBC (labs) next week again, if his counts have not improved and/or worsened at that time he will go see the internist for further workup ect. Maybe the labs are lagging behind the treatment?

The working diagnosis at this point is Immune Mediated Hemolytic Anemia (IMHA, Immune Mediated Thrombocytopenia (ITP), but my vet did say today that other things such as infection, cancer have not been totally ruled out as we do not know the underlying cause, or if it is a primary process and there is not any underlying disease. Or if it was the vaccine... I need to ask him more about this, I talked to the on call vet that day about it and she did not think so, but have not talked to our personal vet about it.

So, that's all for now I guess. I am just so happy Kelso is happy right now smile
happyboogie While all of this is still extremely frightening, I'm so thrilled to hear that there's improvement in the way Kelso's wub feeling and acting!!!

And what good news that the internist is satisfied enough that he doesn't want to see him pending his next blood work.

I'm pleased to hear they at least have progressed to the point of having the working diagnosis.

hugging hugging hugging Kelso, Steph & Dan hugging hugging hugging
Posted by: Furonthefloor

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/25/11 10:17 AM

huggingto you Kelso! I hope you continue to feel like your beautiful self. We'l be thinking of you.
Posted by: AgilePaws

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/25/11 12:06 PM

Continuing to send good thoughts to Kelso! hug
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/25/11 03:22 PM

Thanks for not making us wait until Monday for an update!


Go back to your first post in this thread and try to convince yourself that this is not vaccine-induced. The vaccine triggered *something*. If this is ultimatley AIHA/ITP, then this is a vaccine reaction, pure and simple. If this is infection (not even gonna mention the C word), then it was aggravated and brought into crisis by the vaccine. Some vets don't believe this stuff is possible, but you watched it and are living it frown


AIHA is precisely one of the driving forces for the official revised vaccination protocols, though many vets still insist on annual vaccines


I am very happy that your vet is still keeping an open mind. It's easy to leap to AIHA, but if it's infection, that leap can be fatal, since AIHA therapy doesn't include abx.

IF it's infection, keep in mind that the high steroids, and non-aggressive dose of doxy will not allow the body to make progress against the infection. The protocol really addresses the bone marrow problem, and the doxy "kinda" keeps the infection in check from progressing. I'm dinking around with this now, and Max's pred doses are miniscule compared with Kelso's.

I don't know exactly what the labs are doing, pred is doing some weird dance between suppressing the immune system and prompting it to make blood, etc. Seems to me that reticulocyte count being so much better is great thumbup

It's going to be tricky playing with the pred and doxy too. I'd be inclined to stick with your vet, if he is comfortable doing this, only because it sounds like the specialist isn't keeping all the options open yet. If infection isn't on his radar, then I wouldn't switch to him unless you are pretty darn sure it's not infection, if that makes sense. At some point, whether you wean off pred first or wean off doxy first, it will be a leap of faith, making the choice to believe one theory over another, and that gets scary!

I hope that the labs catch up next week. The next step would be the addition of some scarier drugs, and closer to the protocol of Jean Dodds' that I posted way back. I'm REALLY hoping that next week things really start turning around, ASAP!


I'm really encouraged that he's feeling so much better, that is HUGE and has to mean something smile

Hang in there you guys, hard to be patient though
hugging hugging hugging
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/25/11 03:33 PM

^^^^ I agree with this. I was probably incoherent in my late-night comments but the high doses of steroids always make me nervous for what will happen when they begin tapering off...especially when their isn't a definitive diagnosis and there is a potential infection.
Posted by: kelso

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/26/11 12:12 AM

I am thinking that the diagnosis is IMHA/ITP, it is just a matter of what the underlying cause is/or if there is one besides the vaccine (which I have no doubt played a part in this). And that is tricky, like Lisa is saying...the way I am thinking about it is that a bone marrow biopsy would rule out cancer, but cancer is not the highest thing on the list so know one wants to go there at this point, cancer would be preceded by idiopathic/vaccine induced/infection as a cause. Seems there is no way to definately say which witch is which right now? And we are covering those bases for now (except the lower dose of doxy which is something I will discuss with our vet). I also need to ask him if we should add something to protect his belly with the high doses of steroids.

I spoke with another member here that had a pup with this (no known cause) and they weaned the steroids with the antibiotics as an adjunct, probably what we will have to do as we might not find the "cause" (besides the vaccine as a cause/insult contributing)

Was reading the forum about IMHA and it seems sometimes the steroids get tapered..things go bad again, so then they go back on the steroids. I do not think they will begin to taper until he is within normal ranges again though? And it seems most failures were when the taper was not long enough?

I feel like I have a puppy again laugh hammer No more sleeping through the night, we have to get up at least 1-2 times a night to let him pee. The peeing is crazy! Poor guy has not peed in the house since he was a puppy and has had a couple accidents this week frown

Like I said, he is acting pretty much like himself. He wants to play and go about and things which makes me very happy! He has always been a bit of an anxious/ants in his pants type of dog and the steroids are definately enhancing that a little so I want to be careful he dosen't over- do it and he does seem a little anxious.....

I emailed Jean Dodds tonight as well.

Picture of Kelso and his nekid belly today, enjoying the sun (but not to much, don't want him to get a sunburn!)



thanks again, you guys are the best

Posted by: arycrest

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/26/11 12:37 AM

Hope I'm remembering this correctly, but I believe when the Hooligans have been on steroids our vet gave them sucralfate/Carafate ... it was kind of messy but seemed to work pretty good.

The latest picture of Kelso is fantastic ... he sure looks like he's feeling a lot better than in the last one!!! wub
Posted by: kelso

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/26/11 12:42 AM

Also, had to add a photo of Allie (with the lion that he de-faced)

She always looks out for Kelso and takes care of his de-stuffed and de-faced toys wub

Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/26/11 03:41 AM

Allie has no arms shocked

rofl okay, that's just how it looked at first, how sweet she is! And yes, Kelso looks like he is feeling a TON better smile

I guess in my mind, I don't think of an infection as AIHA, since an infection can decrease all that stuff without it being autoimmune. I think of AIHA as a different process. I can see the terms being co-mingled though. It is true that in some of these infections, there is immune system dysregulation that looks like (and might be) autoimmune. So perhaps, in my mind, I make a distinction where there really isn't any.

However, when talking to vets, when they talk of AIHA, I really do think that they mean it's a process without infection. I could be wrong!!

On the tick list, a lot of folks use pepcid to protect the stomach from doxy. I know that Carafate has to be separated by 2 hours.

No fun with all the pee problems....I so hope that he turns a corner soon!
Posted by: Qyn

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/26/11 04:22 AM

Thanks for the updates Steph - Kelso certainly looks brighter eyed in the last photo and Allie is as sweet as ever. No matter what has caused this problem, I look forward to seeing a reversal in the lab results as his body fights this problem. I wonder if there is an immune enhancing diet or supplement to help support his recovery in addition to the steroid therapy??
Posted by: bianca

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/26/11 05:29 AM

I'm afraid this is all way above my head but just wanted you to know I am reading and keeping Kelso in my thoughts. So pleased he is obviously feeling a bit better hugging
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/26/11 11:09 AM

Originally Posted By: kelso
Also, had to add a photo of Allie (with the lion that he de-faced)

She always looks out for Kelso and takes care of his de-stuffed and de-faced toys wub





Isn't that sweet ... true teamwork!!! Dr. Kelso performs the radical stuffyectomies while Dr. Allie critiques his surgical skills!!!
Posted by: aubie

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/26/11 11:52 AM

Kel def looked a lot better in that beautiful photo! Glad he's acting better. I just hate it's still so up in the air for you guys. HUGS!!
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/27/11 02:25 AM

Originally Posted By: Qyn
.... I wonder if there is an immune enhancing diet or supplement to help support his recovery in addition to the steroid therapy??

Ar this point, even I'm afraid to try too much here. If there is an autoimmune component (with or without infection), one has to be careful to not boost the immune system. But, protecting the gut is important.


Probiotics are important, between abx. I've never used Carafate, but funny it's mentioned, I just started Max on some left over from Indy, in case some of his discomfort is from ulcers from the pred or doxy.

On the AIHA forum, they use something called Petinic (sp?) A lot, though I can't look it up right now.

Continued good thoughts for Kelso!
Posted by: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/27/11 03:46 PM

I looked this up for you Lisa. Petinic is an high iron based vitamin solution.
http://www.drugs.com/vet/pet-tinic.html

I am glad the Kelso is feeling better.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/27/11 04:15 PM

Originally Posted By: Wisc.Tiger_Val
I looked this up for you Lisa. Petinic is an high iron based vitamin solution.
http://www.drugs.com/vet/pet-tinic.html


Thanks Val, that makes sense!
Posted by: Hollysmom

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/27/11 05:06 PM

When I was battling AIHA with my GSD pup a few years ago. I gave Lixitinic daily . Lixitinic is the large animal version of the Petiinic, great for helping with anemia/low blood count.
My girl spent 5 months on Pred, antibiotics (starting with Doxycillian) and Famotadide for her stomach, along with lixitinic. Never knew what started her with the AIHA episode, everything that could be ruled out was, it just happened.
It is a long ongoing battle, with up and downs along the way, setbacks and huge steps forward. I was always scared of the huge doses of Prednisone which she was given for almost 2 months(100 mg day and she was a 5 month old puppy), then the slow patient weeks and weeks of weaning off the Pred. From start to end of meds it was 5 months....She was lucky, did not have a replapse after going off meds.
Posted by: Qyn

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/28/11 10:00 AM

Hollysmom, thanks for sharing your dog's story - I'm so glad that she did not relapse that is very good to read.
Posted by: kelso

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/29/11 01:23 AM

Thank all of you guys again smile

Hollysmom has been very helpful to me and so glad her pup recovered and is doing well!

Kelso's still doing very well. He paces around alot when he is inside, when I let him out he will lay by the door and is calm in his crate as well, just antsy around the house.

Lisa I think I was confusing myself crazy ? Can't infection cause a secondary AIHA?...or then would it be IMHA? I guess that was the way I was thinking about it. Or like you said infection alone could cause the anemia/thrombocytopenia as well (like ticks)..or would that ultimately just be a secondary IMHA/ITP, confusing!! Or is it just semantics? I don't know enough about this to know!

Besides all that..several people have mentioned, specifically Lisa/Gayle ect that this may be a vaccine reaction pure and simple. While I think I always thought that the vaccine had a major part in this (like unmasking something else or giving his immune system a big punch) I have been thinking this whole time that there has to be that "something else" as my vet really has not said, "well this could have just been the vaccine".

With his rapid improvement clinically and after hearing from Jean Dodds I think it is more convincing that it may be just that alone? It actually kindof bothers me this wasn't something the vet has been talking more about, and also that I did not press this issue more in the beginning. Not that it would have changed the treatment thus far but... This is definately something we need to push harder asking the vet tomorrow when Kelso goes for labs. Will also of course be important as he will likely no longer get vaccinations, or a different schedule (just rabies? and I have read that they pre-treat some dogs with benadryl before that and do a cbc afterward if they have had AIHA before) Obviously important things to Kelso's future vet care.

so labs tomorrow, keep your fingers crossed for K! smile Last week we got them on friday morning so hope to update friday evening.

Hope you all have a fantastic weekend
Posted by: Qyn

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 09/29/11 08:30 AM

Glad to read he is doing well and crossedfingers for the lab results too.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 10/01/11 03:43 PM

Originally Posted By: Hollysmom
When I was battling AIHA with my GSD pup a few years ago. I gave Lixitinic daily . Lixitinic is the large animal version of the Petiinic, great for helping with anemia/low blood count.
My girl spent 5 months on Pred, antibiotics (starting with Doxycillian) and Famotadide for her stomach, along with lixitinic. Never knew what started her with the AIHA episode, everything that could be ruled out was, it just happened.
It is a long ongoing battle, with up and downs along the way, setbacks and huge steps forward. I was always scared of the huge doses of Prednisone which she was given for almost 2 months(100 mg day and she was a 5 month old puppy), then the slow patient weeks and weeks of weaning off the Pred. From start to end of meds it was 5 months....She was lucky, did not have a replapse after going off meds.


Hollysmom, what a great resource you are, having nursed your dog through this!

Those are really scary dosages of steroids, but it sounds like they got your girl through this. I so hope that you she NEVER relapses crossedfingers

I had never heard of that supplement: http://www.drugs.com/vet/lixotinic.html Too bad my boy is allergic to some of the ingredients, but it sounds like a exactly what's needed when fighting this type of anemia.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 10/01/11 03:58 PM

Originally Posted By: kelso
Lisa I think I was confusing myself crazy ? Can't infection cause a secondary AIHA?...or then would it be IMHA? I guess that was the way I was thinking about it. Or like you said infection alone could cause the anemia/thrombocytopenia as well (like ticks)..or would that ultimately just be a secondary IMHA/ITP, confusing!! Or is it just semantics? I don't know enough about this to know!


I'm going to go with semantics! Yes, infection can cause a secondary AIHA, but I guess since most vets jump to the pure autoimmune part, I probably make a distiction where there shouldn't be any. I've seen too many dogs (with a history of tick disease) put on steroids alone, with really terrible consequences, so I probably have a knee-jerk reaction here.

Quote:
Besides all that..several people have mentioned, specifically Lisa/Gayle ect that this may be a vaccine reaction pure and simple. While I think I always thought that the vaccine had a major part in this (like unmasking something else or giving his immune system a big punch) I have been thinking this whole time that there has to be that "something else" as my vet really has not said, "well this could have just been the vaccine".

With his rapid improvement clinically and after hearing from Jean Dodds I think it is more convincing that it may be just that alone? It actually kindof bothers me this wasn't something the vet has been talking more about, and also that I did not press this issue more in the beginning. Not that it would have changed the treatment thus far but... This is definately something we need to push harder asking the vet tomorrow when Kelso goes for labs. Will also of course be important as he will likely no longer get vaccinations, or a different schedule (just rabies? and I have read that they pre-treat some dogs with benadryl before that and do a cbc afterward if they have had AIHA before) Obviously important things to Kelso's future vet care.

You will need to get a vet "on board" with this, that the vaccine played a central role in triggering this life-threatening disease process.

It is my opinion, that benadryl doesn't do much for this type of reaction. An anaphylactic reaction, yes. But this type? no, not imo. (lol, spell check wanted to make anaphylactic intergalactic crazy )

Indy was permanently damaged by her vaccines when she was young. She had her last rabies at 1 year old, and her last combo at 2 years old (stupid me shouldn't have done that last one!). She died at 13 1/2, and I had no problems with the vaccine stuff. However, I never boarded her. My then-vet told me all sorts of *wrong* things about rabies exemptions, but I got the straight scoop from animal control - had to call them, it wasn't written any where, and then I had an enlightened vet that wrote exemptions for Indy her entire life.

For an adult dog that has been previously vaccinated, there really are no issues with not giving them any more of the core vaccines, the science says, particularly after they have been boosted, they have long term immunity (some will say lifetime). Rabies, of course, has the legal issue, and you will have to do what you feel is right there. I was always confident with Indy that rabies was at least a 7 year vaccine, and hoped for much longer. I wanted to titer her before she passed, but didn't get the opportunity. I've watched other dogs get titered, and seen high rabies titers long after the vaccine was administered.

I am so hoping that the labs are showing some good knews crossedfingers
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 10/01/11 06:22 PM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
...

I am so hoping that the labs are showing some good knews crossedfingers
Me too!!! gsdbeggin I'm hoping she'll post soon!!!
Posted by: kelso

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 10/01/11 10:48 PM

Howdy

Kelso's labs are looking better ..yeah!! Looks like his bone marrow is definately responding now and churning out new cells, his hemoglobin has improved. Dan had a long chat with our vet about a vaccine reaction (I think even more convincing now that the labs have improved so much with the steroids) and the vet is on board with discussing his future non-vaccine routine. Dan gave him the information Jean Dodds emailed to us, which I thought was good.

He told us to give Kelso Pepcid AC for his stomach.

So he is doing great, not totally himself in that he is a little over-wired but still him. We are continuing the steroids as is until next weeks lab draw as he is not yet within normal ranges (I have heard they only start to taper once they are about or at normal).

Thanks for the info Lisa! Maybe we will just titer next time for rabies?
What happened to Indy after her vaccines? And which ones? frown



Posted by: JeanKBBMMMAAN

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 10/01/11 11:16 PM

Very good news! Hoping for a picture of Kelso too sometime. laugh (was that too subtle?)
Posted by: kelso

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 10/01/11 11:26 PM

laugh Did you see last week's a couple pages back (the belly in the sun?)

I will work on it! Might have to put him in a sweater to keep his belly warm for these kindof chilly (not really) fall nights we have been having..hehe
Posted by: kelso

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 10/01/11 11:45 PM

Originally Posted By: JeanKBBMMMAAN
Very good news! Hoping for a picture of Kelso too sometime. laugh (was that too subtle?)


He was happy to oblige for you Jean! (and for a hotdog...those steroids have really made him a food hound smile

Taken 10 mintues ago....on the "sick bed" that I got for him...hmmmmm...I really underestimated on that one. His back half is hanging off the other side...lol. The next size was like a mattress!

Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 10/01/11 11:59 PM

Aw...love that boy! So glad that he's feeling better. I do slippery elm instead of pepcid...just in case you want an option. wink
Posted by: kelso

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 10/02/11 12:03 AM

That would be great as we have not picked up any pepcid. Where can I get that? Wonder if the locally owned stores here would have it.
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 10/02/11 12:06 AM

Health food store or a grocery store with a really good health food section. And be sure to give at least a half hour apart from meals.
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 10/02/11 12:07 AM

grouphug That's fantastic news!!! groovy So glad he's doing so much better ... love that picture of his handsomeness!!!
Posted by: Hollysmom

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 10/02/11 12:07 AM

His blood is looking great, his HCT is almost normal. Steriods, at least on my girl were slowly tapered off as soon as his HCT and other blood levels stayed up for two weeks straight. Then we started tapering off the steriods weekly with a blood test each week to make sure nothing started going down again.
glad to see things are picking up and he is doing so well.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 10/02/11 12:12 AM

This is great news smile

From last time:
Originally Posted By: kelso
The eh....His labs are not improved, in fact just a hair worse frown Still "pancytopenic" White blood cells (were actually normal last time), hemoglobin, and platlets are all low.
White blood cells 4.0 normal range (5.7-16.3), last week 5.7
Red Blood Cells 3.85 (5.5-8.5), last week 4.15
Hemoglobin 9.2 (12-18), last week 9.5
Hematocrit 29.4 (37-55), last week 29.7
Platlets 66 (164-510), last week it just said about 50-120


The report still commented that "neutrophils appear slightly toxic" but the neutrophils were in the normal range, absolute lymphocytes were low this week 840 (1000-4800) and last week they were high (4845).

The reticulocyte count was normal this time (1.0) so that may be good, hopefully means his bone marrow is responding. Last time it was 0.2



had to look these up: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rouleaux

That's great that the vaccine issue was approached! Your vet might require you to run titers in order to get an exemption letter. Most governments won't accept titers, just a letter. I would only titer if I were actually thinking about re-vaccinating, but you might not have a choice.

Such great news, I'm so relieved :whew:

LOL, yeah, I think the bed is a bit small rofl
Posted by: kelso

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 10/02/11 12:42 AM

Just wanted to say thank you again...to each and every one of you for reading and posting! I read them all and am very appreciative of every thought and comment.

I know I get off on tangents about labs and things often blush sorry about that. But what means the most is the great support from you all, very happy that Kelso has continued to improve! Can you tell laugh crazy

Hope everyone is enjoying a nice fall weekend. Will be looking forward to the fall smilies.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 10/02/11 01:37 AM

Originally Posted By: kelso
Just wanted to say thank you again...to each and every one of you for reading and posting! I read them all and am very appreciative of every thought and comment.

I know I get off on tangents about labs and things often blush sorry about that. But what means the most is the great support from you all, very happy that Kelso has continued to improve! Can you tell laugh crazy

Hope everyone is enjoying a nice fall weekend. Will be looking forward to the fall smilies.


This forum is pretty great, isn't it?

Hey, I just looked up slippery elm (pouring over everything, looking for stuff for Max), and SE is a diuretic. I'm thinking that's not something that I would give a dog on high doses of pred? I've been giving Max part of an artichoke heart each morning, and he's just dripping stuff - turns out it's a diuretic too, aack! Not something that would be a huge concern for most dogs, but being on pred, I think I would opt for the pepcid.
Posted by: kelso

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 10/02/11 02:28 AM

great point. A diuretic would not be good. He is already drinking alot (as much as we will let him, try to put the water up when it gets later)...and the peeing....lord..I have mentioned the peeing right? 60 mg of pred a day and literally when I take him out to the bathroom he goes...I tell him to go again..and he goes...and then I tell him again and he goes.... again. So bathroom breaks have turned into make sure he goes three times. And then after we get inside... he has had 3 accidents in 2 weeks, feel bad for him. He hasn't gone in the house in years (the last time I remember is when he was 10 mo old and before that was 4 mo old or something) and he literally just stops and starts peeing right in front of us ...it is really odd. But the vet had warned us, and of course we do not get angry or anything.

Anyone (Hollysmom?) have advice on that? I try to take him out every hour (like a pup!) And we are crating him at night and when we are not home, he has had no accidents in his crate.
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 10/02/11 06:55 AM

Originally Posted By: kelso
great point. A diuretic would not be good. He is already drinking alot (as much as we will let him, try to put the water up when it gets later)...and the peeing....lord..I have mentioned the peeing right? 60 mg of pred a day and literally when I take him out to the bathroom he goes...I tell him to go again..and he goes...and then I tell him again and he goes.... again. So bathroom breaks have turned into make sure he goes three times. And then after we get inside... he has had 3 accidents in 2 weeks, feel bad for him. He hasn't gone in the house in years (the last time I remember is when he was 10 mo old and before that was 4 mo old or something) and he literally just stops and starts peeing right in front of us ...it is really odd. But the vet had warned us, and of course we do not get angry or anything.

Anyone (Hollysmom?) have advice on that? I try to take him out every hour (like a pup!) And we are crating him at night and when we are not home, he has had no accidents in his crate.
I've had the problem but never found a solution except to take them out a lot which you're already doing (having only three accidents in two weeks on this high dosage IMHO is fantastic). Sometimes it can even present problems on much much lower doses of Pred when dealing with elderly dogs and their weak bladders. My only advice is to keep on doing what you're doing and make sure you have a lot of Odo-Ban on hand for clean-up if there's an accident.
Posted by: JeanKBBMMMAAN

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 10/02/11 09:58 AM

Awwwww, what a great smile! Thank you Kelso for posing. wub

With the pred, they pee. I was on it before, I had to go like I've never had to go in my life. A lot of pressure - think of when you were really little and were really into playing and then all of a sudden, because you weren't in tune with the pre-gotta go feeling - you had to get to a bathroom NOW. That's what it's like. laugh TMI? rofl

Anyway, you are doing what you can. You could get a belly band but probably not necessary. Mila on pred actually peed at the door - she couldn't wait for me to open it! Quincey was on huge doses and a puppy - he would not even know he had to go and would just start peeing. It's weird isn't it?
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 10/02/11 10:07 AM

Another note on the pepcid - it can cause weight loss. When my sister's aussie had auto-immune anemia and was on pepcid she suddenly began to lose weight.

My sis then learned that could be a side effect of the pepcid (and we joked we were going to eat pepcid like M&Ms.)

Mya is raw fed and she picked the weight back up once her anemia got better and meds were reduced. My sister also spent time daily getting her back in shape since her muscles and stamina were reduced during her illness.

By the way, Mya was never supposed to be able to do the things she used to - agility, herding etc according to the vet. Within 10 months she got her master agility title.

Kelso - so glad to see your health is on the rise! smile
Posted by: DancingCavy

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 10/02/11 07:10 PM

So happy to hear the great news!

I didn't realize slippery elm was a diuretic. Interesting. Risa occasionally has some incontinence issues. I recently stopped giving her slippery elm and she hasn't been leaky since! Something to keep in mind for sure.
Posted by: Hollysmom

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 10/02/11 11:22 PM

Yea, no diuretics during this type of stuff going on. His kidneys are working a bit overtime because of the steriods, they don't need anything else forcing them to work hard.
There really isn't much to do with the uncontrolled urination, the darn steriods make them drink like a fish and pee like a racehorse. As Kelso is weaned off them, the excess urination will start slowing down also.
I can tell you it does not affect them after they are off the steriods, there is not usually any lasting issues, once weaned off steriods, the excess water drinking, eating and peeing go back to normal.
You are doing great with Kelso and the problems associated with treatments that go on so long...
Posted by: Hollysmom

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 10/06/11 04:01 PM

How is Kelso doing? Any updates?
Posted by: kelso

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 10/07/11 11:32 PM

Howdy again

Some more "eh" I guess?

He is still acting the same, a little zippy from the steroids but tires faster and just acts like a strange version of himself in general crazy So no change there at least! Glad he is happy smile For whatever reason, he LOVES his weekly vet visits. I am sure it has nothing to do with the fact that one of the techs has a soft spot for him and does tricks with him in the lobby for treats..lol. And he is not getting out of the house otherwise!

Labs are at a standstill, again some are a hair lower frown RBC slightly lower again along with the hematocrit, but not much. Hemoglobin up a hair.
I did notice they commented that the platlets appear "markedly" decreased, while last week it was "moderately." Ug. Not really sure how significant that is though as the values seem pretty approximate and it comments that they could be falsely decreased.

There was that first week that the labs did not change much, and then improved so I wonder if it takes 2 weeks for the labs to reflect what is going on each time?

So....our vet is sending us to the internist Tuesday at 1pm. Same place Dan took Meeka for her FHO and pyometra so we are familiar with the place at least, they have been very good in the past.

so that's it for now, thanks for hanging in there with us and reading, offering advice ect. Much appreciated.

Hope everyone has a good weekend. Leaves are starting to fall here so want to get some fall pics of the dogs this weekend playinleaves


Posted by: kelso

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 10/07/11 11:34 PM

And thanks for the great tips and shared experiences Gayle, Jean, Bonnie and Hollysmom! smile
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 10/08/11 01:15 AM

hugging hugging hugging hugging hugging

Will be thinking of you and Kelso Tuesday!!! upsidedownleaf
Posted by: bianca

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 10/08/11 03:26 AM

Adding my thoughts for some answers on Tuesday! And a gentle pat for Kelso hugging
Posted by: Hollysmom

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 10/08/11 03:14 PM

They might have to up the steriods, since his HCT is dropping a bit. Have the lowered the Preds at all? Sometimes when the preds are not high enough or have been lowered, then the blood work shows drops in the red blood cells. Sometimes some dogs will have to stay on Pred the rest of their lives.
My thoughts are with you are Kelso...
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 10/08/11 04:56 PM

Steph,

I wish I understood this stuff better, the infection versus plain old immune dysregulation. I fought the vets for years on this, so I tend to be biased in one direction, so I'm just not sure about Kelso. I look at the liver involvement, and the systemic inflammation (increased amylase, increased alk phos), and I'm just not sure how this fits in if this is all about an immune system attack. What is the doxy dosage that Kelso is on?

There are so many weird things out there, like babesia, and other rickettsia disease processes. I think this was done, but the spleen was checked on physical exam for enlargement?

I hope that you don't mind, but I put this together: http://tinyurl.com/3dh5lvt You should be able to download it under the "File" option if you'd like. It just helps me look at everything in one place, and I had the "guts" of the spreadsheet already done for Max's values. If you want to keep the spreadsheet there, I can always add you as an "editor", I don't mind inputing the values, it helps me think. (eta: The settings are so that only people with the link can view the spreadsheet. After you download it, I can always make it private.)

I really wish I understood what is happening with the absolute blood counts, including the monocytes and eosinophils.

It does seem, looking at the numbers, that there is only slight regeneration. I'm pretty sure that the specialist will want to get those numbers up. I would want to review Dodds' protocol on this before talking with the specialist so that you can think of some questions, or be able to put any new recommendations in context.

I would consider adding some liver support to the mix - pred is hard on the liver, and the enzymes were already taking a hit frown I would consider that supplement that Hollysmom used (even though it has corn syrup!), or maybe some acetyl-l-carnitine, to help.

This is very scary stuff. I'm glad that clnically Kelso is doing well through the treatment!
Posted by: kelso

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 10/09/11 01:26 AM

Originally Posted By: Hollysmom
They might have to up the steriods, since his HCT is dropping a bit. Have the lowered the Preds at all? Sometimes when the preds are not high enough or have been lowered, then the blood work shows drops in the red blood cells. Sometimes some dogs will have to stay on Pred the rest of their lives.
My thoughts are with you are Kelso...


His prednisone dose has been kept the same since he was started on it. He was given an injection of steroids the first day then started on the 30 mg twice a day orally (60 mg daily) dosing and the vet has not changed it at all since the labs have only minimally improved.

Thank you for the thoughts and the great advice, appreciate this so much. hugging
Posted by: kelso

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 10/09/11 02:09 AM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
Steph,

I wish I understood this stuff better, the infection versus plain old immune dysregulation. I fought the vets for years on this, so I tend to be biased in one direction, so I'm just not sure about Kelso. I look at the liver involvement, and the systemic inflammation (increased amylase, increased alk phos), and I'm just not sure how this fits in if this is all about an immune system attack. What is the doxy dosage that Kelso is on?

There are so many weird things out there, like babesia, and other rickettsia disease processes. I think this was done, but the spleen was checked on physical exam for enlargement?

I hope that you don't mind, but I put this together: http://tinyurl.com/3dh5lvt You should be able to download it under the "File" option if you'd like. It just helps me look at everything in one place, and I had the "guts" of the spreadsheet already done for Max's values. If you want to keep the spreadsheet there, I can always add you as an "editor", I don't mind inputing the values, it helps me think. (eta: The settings are so that only people with the link can view the spreadsheet. After you download it, I can always make it private.)

I really wish I understood what is happening with the absolute blood counts, including the monocytes and eosinophils.

It does seem, looking at the numbers, that there is only slight regeneration. I'm pretty sure that the specialist will want to get those numbers up. I would want to review Dodds' protocol on this before talking with the specialist so that you can think of some questions, or be able to put any new recommendations in context.

I would consider adding some liver support to the mix - pred is hard on the liver, and the enzymes were already taking a hit frown I would consider that supplement that Hollysmom used (even though it has corn syrup!), or maybe some acetyl-l-carnitine, to help.

This is very scary stuff. I'm glad that clnically Kelso is doing well through the treatment!


Lisa,

Oh my!! Thank you SO much for the spreadsheet, means alot to me. This is very helpful and something I should have done and cannot thank you enough for doing that. I am one of those strange people that something like this, a spreadsheet, is better than any Christmas present! smile hugging I actually want to print this off to take to the specialist tuesday.

Kelso is on the 60 mg of pred a day and 400 mg of doxy a day (divided in 2 doses). The spleen was checked on palpation as well as the ultrasound. They did the ultrasound of his entire abdomen as well as his heart. Plain film xrays were also done.

Dan printed off the Dodds protocol for vaccine reactions and gave it to our vet, think we will print off another copy for the specialist.

It is very scary. Last week we were "up" a little as we were thinking it was a pure vaccine reaction and he was doing good, labs improving. Now it is almost like we are back to square one of just not knowing....he was a little more tired this week, I commented to Dan thursday night about that, then he labs were not better....my mom came over today and Kelso literally thinks she hung the MOON....and he was a little subdued for Kelso when he was with her today.

And he let me give him a bath in the tub today and did not try to eat the water sprayer...which was a little different for him. But yet he still digs and acts a nut at times, just more short lived than it used to be.

I just don't know. No one does at this point I guess. All I know is that he is not Kelso 3 months ago. We can't tell if it is the steroids or what.

Like I said, he seems happy and does get ornery so that makes us very happy. He is starting to regrow some peach fuzz on his shaved belly and is really looking good coat/eyes ect. His fur is so soft!! So we can only hope that means he really is getting better.

He is eating great (steroids) and it was only a couple of days that he did not eat well (in the very beginning) but yet his weight has been down. He was 80 lbs for when he was neutered more than a year ago and was 78 lbs when he went in for his DHLPP, the next week was 75 lbs and at his vet visit last week was 70 lbs. He is getting tripe, Wellness/Nature's Variety kibble, homemade treats/food and I just made up some satin balls for him as well. It will be interesting to see how much he weighs this next week as I do think he already looks better today.

Something else strange to note.... I threw the ball for him 2 times this week as he seemed antsy .. both times he chased it 4-5 times and then would stop...hunch his back over a bit like he was going to poop and instead of pooping he just plops down. Then starts eating grass. I don't want him too active of course but wanted to see if he wanted to do it and he loves his ball and I really just want him to be happy. I do not think I will do it again until we talk to the specialist. I don't know what that means but after the first time (which I thought was just something strange) it was alarming to see him do that again. Maybe it is because he has lost muscle?

So... it is just so up and down and all over, and I think we are reading into things and then I think he is better ....and on and on.

Like I have said, I just want him to be happy, and I do think he is. Just hoping that we can get some answers soon as well for our puppy cry

I want to take him on our walks, go to the park and enjoy the fall leaves... but am afraid to take him out now if he is having an immune problem?

What is the name of the supp that Hollysmom used... will have to go back and look

Here is the results of the tick testing that was done

Posted by: kelso

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 10/09/11 02:13 AM

Pic from today! Handsome smile
He loves to mess with his bowl

Posted by: bianca

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 10/09/11 04:22 AM

wub
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 10/09/11 12:20 PM

Originally Posted By: kelso
Pic from today! Handsome smile
He loves to mess with his bowl

Originally Posted By: kelso
...

Something else strange to note.... I threw the ball for him 2 times this week as he seemed antsy .. both times he chased it 4-5 times and then would stop...hunch his back over a bit like he was going to poop and instead of pooping he just plops down. Then starts eating grass. I don't want him too active of course but wanted to see if he wanted to do it and he loves his ball and I really just want him to be happy. I do not think I will do it again until we talk to the specialist. I don't know what that means but after the first time (which I thought was just something strange) it was alarming to see him do that again. Maybe it is because he has lost muscle?...
wub Love that picture, he's such a handsome dude!!!

Are you giving him anything for his stomach like Pepcid A/C or sucralfate/Carafate? From the way you're describing it, it sounds almost like some type of irritation ... maybe stomach or intestinal irritation problem (just saying this because of the pred). Just a thought ... you can ask the vet on Tuesday!!!

hugging hugging hugging hugging hugging hugging
Posted by: Braverhund

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 10/09/11 12:55 PM

Kelso wub couldn't get handsomer even if he tried! wow His conquored bowl, his elongated tongue, those gorgeous intelligent eyes. Wishing only good health for Kelso!
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 10/09/11 04:00 PM

I'm glad you like the spreadsheet It looks like it lost just a tiny bit of formatting in the upload, and I don't know if the page break between the chemistry panel and the CBC is there - let me know if you want the original smile

When the platelets get below somewhere about 40,000, that's when you risk internal bleeding, per my vet. Do watch for this on the stomach:

There was an ehrlichia dog on another forum, I showed this picture, and the dog had this petechia - she brought the dog in and the platelets were somewhere around 15,000-20,000, I can't remember. But there was bleeding into the gums and the eyes (retina?) too. When the platelets are really really low, I would be careful of activity. They can do a handcount, but I think you have to ask - I don't know the details on that, only that machine count and hand count of platelets can vary quite a bit.

And yes, with those amounts of pred, his immune system is not competent right now.

Max's gut has taken a hit with the long term doxy. The pred here, at low doses, has already affected his liver. All this stuff is just nasty. But these GSDs have such strong spirit and drive, sometimes it's very difficult to judge what is going on by watching them. IF they show a symptom, then I tend to multiply that a bit, since they tend to not show.

Tick tests....I have seen everyone of them fail, so I don't put complete faith in them. And sometimes we aren't testing for the right things. For example, babesia can cause these same symptoms, often not tested for, and I think might be hard to test for. Just out of curiousity, I would think about running a cbc on Allie, and see if there is any platelet clumping or lowered counts on anything, as a possible clue. One dog could be infected while the other isn't, but if Allie has an issue, it might point more towards infection. If Allie is fine, well, you still know nothing crazy

It is clear that he isn't regenerating as much as he should, and they will want to address that. I've never followed all of the blood counts in a situation like this, so maybe everything that is going on is normal for pure autoimmune. Some of the stuff seems weird to me, but a lot of things in the medical area, as you know, are just weird, and sometimes don't follow the textbook.
Posted by: Hollysmom

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 10/10/11 11:11 AM

I was giving Holly LIXITINIC for anemia. It can come under alot of names, my clinic buys in gallon jugs for horses and we just pull up into another jar what we dose for dogs. There are lots of different names out there, but we have always used Lixitinic.

Don't take him anywhere except for the vets or a ride in the car. His immune system is toast right now.If you know someone who has a sick dog or been around a sick dog or puppy, do not let Kelso near them or you until you change clothes. When my girl was sick for the 5 months, and working at the vet, it was important that I changed clothes before I went into my home at night. I always used precautions at work, never worked on a puppy with a contagious illness and changed clothes in the garage at night before I went inside to greet her. On the days she needed blood draws, I usually went home after work and brought her back in or days I wasn't working, was the first appointment in the morning so she had no interaction with other pets at the clinic.
This is a very long slow illness with small ups and major downs. Every blood draw that shows good, you cheer thinking the best is to come, every one that shows loss just devastates you. I would probably not do hard exercise at all, if he feels like playing a bit, go ahead, but no excessive ball chasing or anything. His system is so "soft" right now you don't want to stress them at all.
His pred dosage is on the safe side, my girl was 50 lbs and was getting 100 mg a day(50mg morning and night) for the first two months, which was the maximun dosage then we starting dropping it slowly.Each vet does it the way they feel best, both my vet and I opted for the max dosage first to try to get things going. In her case, it worked.
When I saw the above photo it reminded me of the last dog we had come in with an AIHA. She was a little Pom and the groomer noticed her belly looked like the photo. She brought her in and was diagnosed with AIHA. Started on Pred, Doxy and Famotide for her tummy and that little Pom is now a year out and off all meds and doing great. We have NO clue what started her episode at all, none. They have no clue, like my girl, it just happened.
If something seems off, get him to the vets immediately. We did daily draws, then every other day, then every three days, then weekly then started cutting back on them. I am glad your vet is not reducing the preds yet, some vets who has not dealt with these immune system crashes start reducing too fast and can cause a major setback.
Things can happen so quickly with this disease.
My thoughts and prayers are with you and Kelso. I know how devastating this can be and pray for you all every day.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 10/10/11 11:41 AM

Originally Posted By: Hollysmom
... This is a very long slow illness with small ups and major downs. Every blood draw that shows good, you cheer thinking the best is to come, every one that shows loss just devastates you. ...

hugging to both of you!
Posted by: kelso

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 10/10/11 11:31 PM

thank you to each and everyone of you!

And Hollysmom your advice and support are invaluable to me, appreciate it so much hugging

Hope to update you all more tomorrow after the specialist visit
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 10/11/11 08:56 AM

crossedfingers for the specialist's evaluation and plan going forward.

MJ
Posted by: TMarie

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 10/11/11 10:06 AM

I've been following this, and just wanted to let you know we are thinking of you and Kelso.
Posted by: kelso

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 10/11/11 10:50 PM

Hello

Nothing much new, which I think is a good thing?!

The internist did an exam, rectal all that good stuff. Looked at all the lab work. Basically said she wouldn't give him anymore vaccines (except for maybe rabies), she is not sure if the vaccine is the only thing or if there was/is something else as well.

She wanted to see another CMP as he had some abnormalities with albumin, alk phos, liver enzymes. So today he had a CMP/CBC and UA/culture done (she wanted to check his urine as we were describing the "hunching" thing).

So not sure there is really anything else...(just like Hollysmom and her pup and others that there was not even a vaccine as the cause) she did say he will be on steroids for a few months. Right now we are keeping the doses of doxy and pred the same until this next batch of bloodwork comes back in the next 24-48 hours.

She did say he had "Pred Head" which I had never heard of, but what I was describing and Lisa was talking about where he kindof looks sunken and you can feel the big bone easily at the top of his head. From muscle wasting from the prednisone. Never knew they called it that....so if anyone was curious!

Ug.

Again, just glad he is doing so good really!

Thanks again. As soon as I know anything more when the labs come back again and get another vet report will update...Kelso says thanks for all the good wishes paw and very helpful advice.

Posted by: Hollysmom

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 10/11/11 11:20 PM

My girl did get the Predhead. But as soon as she was weaned off the pred, her muscling came back just fine.
Keep up your spirit and hope. My prayers are with you.
If you ever just need to talk Steph, please pm me and I will give you my phone number or email and we can chat that way.
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 10/13/11 12:04 AM

Originally Posted By: kelso
...
So not sure there is really anything else...(just like Hollysmom and her pup and others that there was not even a vaccine as the cause) she did say he will be on steroids for a few months. Right now we are keeping the doses of doxy and pred the same until this next batch of bloodwork comes back in the next 24-48 hours.
Thanks again. As soon as I know anything more when the labs come back again and get another vet report will update...Kelso says thanks for all the good wishes paw and very helpful advice. ...
I know it hasn't been 48 hours yet but just checking to see if you've heard anything?
Posted by: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 10/13/11 12:12 AM

Checking in on Kelso. I am glad to hear that things are stable and moving towards the good.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 10/13/11 01:36 AM

Max has pred head, I noticed it awhile back frown


I'm glad that the specialist wanted to do the more extensive tests - the abnormalities struck me as I was making that spreadsheet. I do wonder if any of those abnormal results are common in the pure immune case (good question for the vet?). Hollysmom, do you recall if only the bloodcounts in your dog were off, or if there were other things?
Posted by: bianca

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 10/13/11 05:44 AM

Just checking in on Kelso hugging
Posted by: Hollysmom

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 10/13/11 10:30 AM

I know some of her other values were off also, but returned to normal after all meds were gone from her system. I can't remember which ones to be honest, its been a few years.
Posted by: aubie

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 10/13/11 11:32 AM

Still following and hoping everything is going well!! crossedfingers
Posted by: JeanKBBMMMAAN

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 10/13/11 10:25 PM

Just checking in. Pred head - interesting!
Posted by: kelso

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 10/13/11 11:46 PM

Hello again

Thank you thank you thank you all for checking in on Kels grouphug

Pretty good news I think, labs are better groovy, he seems to be doing very well besides the side effects of the prednisone (ravenous, peeing) and easily fatigued but wound up at the same time.

I was going to post the vet report but did not know if that was ok so the summary is:

assessment: pancytopenia, rule out: immune mediated, infectious (tick, viral, other) toxin, myelofibrosis..

recommendation: finsh doxy (30 days) and decrease prednisone to 50mg a day for 3 weeks and recheck a cbc at that point. If that is normal decrease the pred by another 25%, then recheck in another 3 weeks and so on....by my calculations if we titrate down to 10 mg he will be on steroids (if all goes well!) for about 18-20 more weeks wow which makes sense as Hollysmom said her pup was on it for about 5 months and this will be about 6 months counting the time he has already been on it. Just hoping and praying there is no setbacks for him.

The write up did say that immune mediated was ultimately suspected and it is unlikely we will determine an underlying cause, but that future vaccines should be limited.


Labs (liver enzymes up -suspected from the pred)





So basically as others have suggested and what Hollysmom went through we will just take it from here and hope each day continues to be better as the pred weans!!

Again, can't thank you all enough. Will be sure to update if anything changes but do not want to bore you all with my ramblings.... smile

Dan just called out from the other room and said "it sounds like normal in there!" I am in the computer room and Kelso is happily squeaking away on his toy like he used to smile smile smile smile
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 10/14/11 12:13 AM

Originally Posted By: kelso
...
Pretty good news I think, labs are better groovy, he seems to be doing very well besides the side effects of the prednisone (ravenous, peeing) and easily fatigued but wound up at the same time.
...
Again, can't thank you all enough. Will be sure to update if anything changes but do not want to bore you all with my ramblings.... smile

Dan just called out from the other room and said "it sounds like normal in there!" I am in the computer room and Kelso is happily squeaking away on his toy like he used to smile smile smile smile
party So glad your boy is feelng better ... I imagine the squeaking is like music to your ears!!!

Your postings about how Kelso's doing are always welcomed ... please never feel that you're boring us!!!

goodluck That's great news that you're going to start weaning him off the pred ... WHAT A HUGE STEP!!!

grouphug
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 10/14/11 02:24 AM

So glad that Kelso is improving and squeaky away again! I'm also glad to hear they recommended limiting vaccines. Were this my dog I would move to titers for rabies only and forget about everything else.
Posted by: Qyn

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 10/14/11 08:54 AM

Originally Posted By: kelso
.....
Dan just called out from the other room and said "it sounds like normal in there!" I am in the computer room and Kelso is happily squeaking away on his toy like he used to smile smile smile smile


This is the kind of information I have been waiting for!!! Thanks for the update it is sounding a lot better. hugging
Posted by: Hollysmom

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 10/14/11 09:57 AM

Sounds like a basic reducing protocal. (If at any time during the reduction phase you see stuff you don't like, immediately get him into vets for a blood workup. It can happen almost overnight if the decrease is causing him to crash a bit.)
I have high hopes for things working out. His HCT is in the low normal range which is GREAT. It funny, but even though I watched all my girls blood work, the HCT was the one that would make me smile. As it went up and then stayed up, I was ready for a happy dance.
You will be surprised how fast his body gets back to normal, even with slight pred reductions. Pred is such a nasty drug, but in the case of AIHA, it is a necessary evil. BUT, the change is fast and he will be himself pretty quick. When we were down to the 10mg a day those last weeks, she was totally her normal self and got even happier when she was able to start returning to normal things like walks, dog shows, etc. Oh yes, she was able to return to dog shows. Amazing , huh?
Please keep in touch, I want to know how things are going. This is one nasty mama of a disease and is so tough on the dogs and long and hard for their bodies to recover, but it is devastating to us as owners to watch and pray and hope everyday. I am so positive that things are climbing up and staying up, Kelso is following my girls path, a slow constant climb to beat this. As your specialist said, we never figured out what caused my girl(Sophie) to get it, you will never know what caused Kelso to get it, so don't even think about it.
I never did give her another vaccination, except rabies. She never had an issue with that one at all.
Good luck to you, Dan and of course Kelso.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 10/14/11 11:31 AM

The weaning protocol is where you take your leap of faith. If this is tick related, that protocol is problematic. If it's just a vaccine reaction, it's fine.

It's good to see that the numbers aren't too far off - what a great releif, and so happy that he's squeeking away!

I hate it when the different labs have different normals - messes with the spreadsheet! And that's what it's all about, the spreadsheet, right rofl

Glad they ran the microalbumin test too - it is an early marker for kidney troubles.

You know, we all will be *expecting* ramblings and updates thumbup
Posted by: aubie

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 10/14/11 11:38 AM

Yay!!! Great news!! I know you all feel relieved just to have a normal squeaking boy back!! happyboogie
Posted by: Woodreb

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 10/14/11 12:35 PM

Great news that Kelso is doing better and feeling well enough to be "squeaky".
Posted by: kelso

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 10/16/11 12:07 AM

Thank you guys again!

Hollysmom-

when did you start taking your girl out again? The vet said she thought it was ok to take him on walks as long as he was not around stray dogs?

His energy level has always been high and he is just pacing around the house at times! Do not want to play ball yet, as that strange thing he was doing last time with the hunching scared me.

Would love to see a pic of your girl by the way!! Please!!

Appreciate all the great advice from everyone
Posted by: Hollysmom

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 10/16/11 12:29 AM

I started taking her out when we started reducing the pred dosage, but like your vet said, no stray dogs.

Posted by: Cassidy's Mom

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 10/16/11 12:10 PM

Just checking in on Kelso, sounds like he's doing great!
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 10/19/11 07:51 AM

please Any new updates ... how's Kelso doing???
Posted by: kelso

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 10/19/11 11:56 PM

Nothin new! smile Which is good! He is just hanging out

Hoping his bare belly isn't to chilly when he goes outside, it is supposed to get down to freezing tonight - glad to see an end to the ragweed!!!
He is starting to grow some undercoat peach fuzz

Thanks for asking! peekinpumpkin
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 10/20/11 02:36 AM

Thanks for the update!!! fetch
blackmoon The poor baby, hope he doesn't get cold. Do you have a dog coat or old sweatshirt he can wear if he gets too chilly? That's good news that he's growing some fur now!!!

grouphug
Posted by: kelso

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 10/22/11 02:35 AM

Originally Posted By: arycrest
Thanks for the update!!! fetch
blackmoon The poor baby, hope he doesn't get cold. Do you have a dog coat or old sweatshirt he can wear if he gets too chilly? That's good news that he's growing some fur now!!!

grouphug



You mean like this? nono laugh This was actually last Christmas!
He's like...let me outta here!!!!!
Posted by: kelso

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 10/22/11 02:38 AM

Originally Posted By: Cassidy's Mom
Just checking in on Kelso, sounds like he's doing great!


Thanks for checking in. He really is doing pretty good, so thankful.
Posted by: kelso

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 10/22/11 02:51 AM

Originally Posted By: arycrest
Originally Posted By: kelso
Pic from today! Handsome smile
He loves to mess with his bowl

Originally Posted By: kelso
...

Something else strange to note.... I threw the ball for him 2 times this week as he seemed antsy .. both times he chased it 4-5 times and then would stop...hunch his back over a bit like he was going to poop and instead of pooping he just plops down. Then starts eating grass. I don't want him too active of course but wanted to see if he wanted to do it and he loves his ball and I really just want him to be happy. I do not think I will do it again until we talk to the specialist. I don't know what that means but after the first time (which I thought was just something strange) it was alarming to see him do that again. Maybe it is because he has lost muscle?...
wub Love that picture, he's such a handsome dude!!!

Are you giving him anything for his stomach like Pepcid A/C or sucralfate/Carafate? From the way you're describing it, it sounds almost like some type of irritation ... maybe stomach or intestinal irritation problem (just saying this because of the pred). Just a thought ... you can ask the vet on Tuesday!!!

hugging hugging hugging hugging hugging hugging


Gayle- I think you hit the nail on the head. I have not seen the hunching since we started the Pepcid!!!
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 10/22/11 08:31 AM

Originally Posted By: kelso
Originally Posted By: arycrest
Thanks for the update!!! fetch
blackmoon The poor baby, hope he doesn't get cold. Do you have a dog coat or old sweatshirt he can wear if he gets too chilly? That's good news that he's growing some fur now!!!

grouphug



You mean like this? nono laugh This was actually last Christmas!
He's like...let me outta here!!!!!
HO! HO! HO! I'll bet that handsome boy will hurry up and break records getting well if you make him wear that outside on cold days!!! He looks ADORABLE (well, more adorable than usual).

Glad to hear that the Pepcid AC resolved that hunching problem!!!
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 10/22/11 05:26 PM

Glad to hear that his tummy is feeling better! Love the pics smile
Posted by: Hollysmom

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 10/22/11 05:44 PM

Love the coat.....

The pred does cause lots of stomach issues, my girl was on Famotadide while she was on the pred. Once we stopped the pred, the stomach issues were gone.

glad for the update, and sounds like he is doing great.
Posted by: Emoore

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 10/23/11 11:47 PM

Hey Steph, I haven't been around lately so I just saw this. So sorry to hear your boy has been sick! Sounds like there's a lot of uncertainty in exactly what happened, which sucks. He's so beautiful and such a great dog, I feel like I know him. I'll be checking back more often to see how he's doing. hugging
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 10/30/11 12:13 PM

peekinpumpkin Just popping in to see how Kelso's feeling. hugging
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 10/30/11 04:18 PM

Any new bloodwork? I've lost track of time!
Posted by: Qyn

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 10/30/11 10:31 PM

I was gladly seeing this thread slowly sink and hoping it was meaning Kelso was doing well - trusting that is still the case. crossedfingers
Posted by: kelso

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 11/01/11 10:55 PM

Originally Posted By: Emoore
Hey Steph, I haven't been around lately so I just saw this. So sorry to hear your boy has been sick! Sounds like there's a lot of uncertainty in exactly what happened, which sucks. He's so beautiful and such a great dog, I feel like I know him. I'll be checking back more often to see how he's doing. hugging


Hi Emily!!! Hope all is well with your crew. Thanks for checking in smile He is a good boy wub

Thanks everyone else for checking in as well!
Things are going good. He played a little over the weekend and did not have anymore of the hunching (has not since the pepcid). And has been acting great.

We have labs on thursday again (has it really been 3 weeks?!?!?!?!?!?!!?)

I am hoping for good news and another decrease in the steroids as he has been stable/improved clinically blackmoon
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 11/02/11 03:12 AM

Originally Posted By: kelso
...
We have labs on thursday again (has it really been 3 weeks?!?!?!?!?!?!!?)

I am hoping for good news and another decrease in the steroids as he has been stable/improved clinically blackmoon
groovy Glad to hear he's improving and hopefully will have his meds decreased!!! happyboogie
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 11/11/11 01:37 PM

Update on the recent labs?

I've been thinking of kelso all week impatient
Posted by: kelso

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 11/11/11 11:33 PM

I was hoping you all wouldn't notice I was late to post about those wink Was just coming here tonight to do so....

It's been a LONG week, but nothing bad dog related-- the dogs are good smile Kelso is playing more and I have been taking him on walks again. He likes that!!! Labs are ok......

These were done last saturday.

WBC 4.6 L (5.7-16.3)
RBC 4.79 L (5.5-8.5)
HGB 12.4 (12-18)
HCT 38.6 (37-55)
MCV 81 H (60-77)
Platlets 123 L (164-510)

Since there was just a slight improvement from 3 weeks ago the vet wants to keep him on the same dose of steroids (50 mg daily) for another 3 weeks before decreasing the dose at all

Also, his white (WBC) count was low which concerned the vet some. Unsure if it is the steroids themselves causing it....or it is an underlying infection as we stopped the doxy 3 weeks ago.

SO, we are back on the doxy. Will probably be on that for awhile yet. So it is still out there that the vaccine may have triggered some underlying slow burning tick infection....not sure

that's it I guess! Going to browse around havent been around much this week

Thanks for thinking of Kelso smile
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 11/11/11 11:52 PM

There you are! Hope this next week is better for you.

Not liking the lowered WBC's. I battle these with Max too frown

I was worried about the doxy issue, but that's sorta standard for me. If he improves on the doxy, then I will have more to say. Typically the dose of doxy they use is too low, particularly when the immune system is being suppressed by the pred. It's just a difficult balance.

I am glad that he is feeling pretty good and able to go on walks.

I guess we wait and see how things go from here, overall, not terrible news, just a long slow process hugging
Posted by: kelso

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 11/12/11 02:55 AM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
There you are! Hope this next week is better for you.

Not liking the lowered WBC's. I battle these with Max too frown

I was worried about the doxy issue, but that's sorta standard for me. If he improves on the doxy, then I will have more to say. Typically the dose of doxy they use is too low, particularly when the immune system is being suppressed by the pred. It's just a difficult balance.

I am glad that he is feeling pretty good and able to go on walks.

I guess we wait and see how things go from here, overall, not terrible news, just a long slow process hugging


Yeah, the low WBC's frown The vet was worried about an infection. What is the dose assuming that this does help and we should complete an aggressive tx for tick disease? I know you have posted it before....

You are right, not bad....but continues to be...eh. I was so hoping we would be able to decrease the pred dose, but glad the vet is being conservative and we are going slow and steady. When I hug my boy he just feels like a shell of what he used to be due to the muscle loss. He looks real good, but it is just different, you know. Especially the pred head.

The vet said he looked great, still a bit thin but his hair from the ultrasound is growing back and the vet was impressed with that with all the steroids.

Onwards and upwards I hope, Looking forward to the holidays with our pups loveturkey

Thanks again Lisa, I have been reading your thread and thinking about you and Max hugging
Posted by: kelso

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 11/12/11 03:13 AM

A recent pic wub You can see the effects of the steroids/being sick in this pic if you compare to prior pics 6 mo ago but I think he is just as handsome as ever wub His ears have always been pretty proportional to his head but they look bigger now that his head has shrunk....
Just glad to have fun with my boy! He is loving the walks and is actually building up some good endurance.

Kelso say's "Well if I wasn't grey before... I am now..that's not gonna slow me down!"


Posted by: kelso

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 11/12/11 03:35 AM

And....

Allie wanted to share

1. That big ears are cool
2. and that she is taking excellent care of her brother and best friend gsdhead

Posted by: bianca

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 11/12/11 03:40 AM

Awwww wub wub for them both hugging
Posted by: Qyn

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 11/12/11 03:47 AM

Thanks for the update .... and the photos. wub
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 11/12/11 08:37 AM

That photo of the two of them is absolutely precious. I hope the white blood counts looks better soon.

Skye says the 'got milk' just makes dogs look distinguished.

Tell Kelso he gets many well wishes from all his friends out here. hugging
Posted by: JeanKBBMMMAAN

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 11/12/11 08:40 AM

That picture of him is STUN-NING. Wowza. That would look nice printed with that orange leaf between his paws just popping! (almost wrote pooping which...figures)

And the two of them...I am glad she has such a good job.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 11/12/11 01:30 PM

Oh my gosh, those pictures wub
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 11/12/11 01:53 PM

Originally Posted By: kelso
...
Yeah, the low WBC's frown The vet was worried about an infection. What is the dose assuming that this does help and we should complete an aggressive tx for tick disease? I know you have posted it before....


The dose recommended on the tick list, and in some of the older literature on this stuff, is 10mg/kg *twice* day, which is roughly 5 mg/lb twice a day. It's about twice what most vets will use. 8 weeks treatment and then evaluate. But that's a dog not on steroids.

I think of the steroid and abx combination as duking it out in the body to see which one will "win" and have the dominant effect in the body.

High dose steroids, moderate dose abx, no way that the abx will dominate and so you are, at best, at a stalemate, if this is infection.

In an ehrlichia-type illness, if ITP is induced, steroids are used to get platelets and red blood cell counts out of the danger zone, and then slowly weaned (while watching blood counts) as the doxy starts taking care of the infection, ultimately getting to doxy alone.

The question is whether that 8 week treatment starts when steroids are done, dunno.

Doxy at a standard dose, inhibits bacteria from growing. At a higher aggressive dose, it also has some killing action. I always get the technical terms for those things reversed!
Posted by: Cassidy's Mom

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 11/12/11 06:28 PM

Get better soon, Kelso!!! hugging
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 11/12/11 07:54 PM

Originally Posted By: JeanKBBMMMAAN
That picture of him is STUN-NING. Wowza. That would look nice printed with that orange leaf between his paws just popping! (almost wrote pooping which...figures)

And the two of them...I am glad she has such a good job.
Ditto ... That's a beautiful picture!!! And of course Allie looks beautiful too!!! wub
Posted by: kelso

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 11/13/11 02:51 AM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
Originally Posted By: kelso
...
Yeah, the low WBC's frown The vet was worried about an infection. What is the dose assuming that this does help and we should complete an aggressive tx for tick disease? I know you have posted it before....


The dose recommended on the tick list, and in some of the older literature on this stuff, is 10mg/kg *twice* day, which is roughly 5 mg/lb twice a day. It's about twice what most vets will use. 8 weeks treatment and then evaluate. But that's a dog not on steroids.

I think of the steroid and abx combination as duking it out in the body to see which one will "win" and have the dominant effect in the body.

High dose steroids, moderate dose abx, no way that the abx will dominate and so you are, at best, at a stalemate, if this is infection.

In an ehrlichia-type illness, if ITP is induced, steroids are used to get platelets and red blood cell counts out of the danger zone, and then slowly weaned (while watching blood counts) as the doxy starts taking care of the infection, ultimately getting to doxy alone.

The question is whether that 8 week treatment starts when steroids are done, dunno.

Doxy at a standard dose, inhibits bacteria from growing. At a higher aggressive dose, it also has some killing action. I always get the technical terms for those things reversed!


Thank you all again, every wish and thought is so appreciated falltree

Bonnie- love the "got milk" reference! I think it does make them look quite distinguished myself smile

Jean - lol on the pooping
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in awhile! That's how I felt with that pic. I use my iphone and Canon powershot alot for pics I want to take, but the Nikon D60 always gets the shots I end up loving! The leaf was not planned! Kelso is a GREAT poser smile

Lisa-

I think it is bacteriostatic (inhibiting) v. bactericidal (killing)?

So...are you thinking that if we wait until the next labs (in 2 weeks) and they are IMPROVED we should start the aggressive dose? (seeing the addition of doxy again as the cause for the change in labs?)

That is actually what I feel like - that we are at a stalemate. Frustrating, can't imagine how Kelso must feel. frown He is good, but not "Kelso" not sure how to describe it.

I was going to post about this in a seperate thread but if anyone reads this that happens to have to have their dog on long term meds such as steroids and antibiotics like doxy....our vet calls in the prescriptions to walmart and we get them off " the $4 dollar list." I think it is neat you can get the generic meds for dogs from the Walmart pharmacy for a discounted cost as well...if you go through the vet it might be triple the cost or so.

The script says "K9" at the top, kindof funny!
Posted by: kelso

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 11/13/11 03:02 AM

Also wanted to mention

the lab report also said that monocytes were low: 1 ref (3-10)
Eosinophils low: 0 LOW ref (2-10)
absolute monocytes 46 LOW ref (150-1350)
absolute eosinophils 0 LOW ref (100-1250)

Why does he have NO eosinophils on multiple reports?

and also commented that neutrophils appear slightly toxic (STILL?!??!?!?!?!?)

and "few reactive lymphs present"

That looks more like infection to me?
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 11/13/11 04:38 AM

It really does sound like infection to me, but there's nothing there, that I know of (and there's a lot I don't know!) that distinguishes between autoimmune or infection. I believe that toxic neutrophils may occur for a variety of reasons, something about they are not forming right as they are pumped out of the bone marrow - I don't know enough to say anything with confidence about that.

Monocytes, can be a marker of inflammation, and eosinophils for allergies, and both may be suppressed from the pred. I have absolutely no idea how to interpret blood counts for a dog on pred. I'm having that problem with Max here.

Reactive lymphocytes...Max had those in his paw, as well as reactive bone....vet and I just looked at each other and shrugged our shoulders. Pathology report wasn't much more helpful.


Originally Posted By: kelso

Lisa-

I think it is bacteriostatic (inhibiting) v. bactericidal (killing)?

LOL, yes that's it, but ask me in about three minutes, and I will have forgotten again rofl

Quote:
So...are you thinking that if we wait until the next labs (in 2 weeks) and they are IMPROVED we should start the aggressive dose? (seeing the addition of doxy again as the cause for the change in labs?)

That is actually what I feel like - that we are at a stalemate. Frustrating, can't imagine how Kelso must feel. frown He is good, but not "Kelso" not sure how to describe it.

Yes, that is what I was thinking. Though, I'm not sure I would wait the two weeks, you may still end up in a stalemate and have wasted two weeks, so to speak.

It's too risky to reduce the pred without knowing, but there is no reason to not increase the doxy. Of course, you could go with seeing what happens in the next two weeks as a first step.

Bottom line, is you really don't know anything more than you did at the start of this frown frown frown


Just putting these here in case we need them....

Previous labs:
http://germanshepherdhome.net/forum/ubbt...cent#Post187832

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?...;hl=en_US#gid=0
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 11/13/11 05:23 AM

Went back and read a couple of the first posts. Had forgotten about the fever. Sure is hard for me to think it's not infection....
Posted by: Hollysmom

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 11/13/11 03:40 PM

My girl ran a fever for quite sometime, she was on antibiotics for about 3 months total.
I am glad your vet is keeping the pred up, even though you get to the point that you want them gone. He will get his muscle tone and such back once the pred is gone, I promise you. I will try to find some of my girls medical records and see what her blood results were showing during her time on pred.
Will let you know when I locate them (we are getting ready to move and stuff is packed.)

Day by day, week by week, month by month. It seems endless and your hopes get so high, then they just crash down.
My thoughts are with you
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 11/17/11 04:02 PM

When does kelso go back for blood tests? Just curious.
Posted by: kelso

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 11/18/11 11:26 PM

greet


He is going this Friday, after Thanksgiving turkeytalk I am off so am glad to get to go with him for once!!

The only bad thing about that is then it is monday before we know anything.... or maybe they will call on sat as they are open I think.

Thanks again Hollysmom, it does help very much that you have been through this sort of thing. I remember reading that they can get a fever with IMHA/ITP

And Lisa I can't say thanks enough to you either pilgrims
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 11/20/11 03:16 AM

I'm glad that you will be there for the blood draw this time smile

Hey, not sure if it's still open, not sure if you would want to pursue this, but was cleaning out some old emails, and someone had sent me this many months ago. Looks like it's a law firm if you google the email address.

Quote:
If your dog experienced health problems or irregularities after receiving a rabies, a distemper, or a DHLPP vaccine or you had your dog euthanized as a result of issues following such vaccinations, please contact Douglas Hyman at dhyman@hymanlippitt.com or John Bliss at jbliss@hymanlippitt.com with the information. They will contact you promptly to follow up.

http://dogshowpoop.blogspot.com/2011/03/vaccine-alert.html
Posted by: kelso

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 12/03/11 10:43 PM

Just a quick update smile

I do not have the actual report from last week's labs yet but the vet said they are sooo close to normal (blood counts) but she still wants him on the same dose of pred since they are not yet "normal" So he will remain on the 50 mg pred....recheck again right before Christmas. snowing

All I want for Christmas is a pred dose decrease! Understand and glad that the vet wants us going slow though.

Continuing doxy...need to discuss the dosage at some point.

His weight is still trending down a bit, have been trying to get in extra food here and there and snacks. Also tried satin balls. I think alot of it is the muscle wasting? frown Will have to go back in this thread and look at all the great recipes you all gave me. It certainly is not his appetite as he could eat the house right now with the steroids.

Hope everyone is doing well!
Posted by: kelso

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 12/04/11 01:51 AM

And a pic with a new (and now destroyed) cute toy from his friend smile
Thanks Gayle smile

Posted by: Qyn

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 12/04/11 05:49 AM

Great picture and thanks for the update. Except for the weight loss it does sound very, very positive. thumbup
Posted by: Emoore

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 12/04/11 12:28 PM

So glad to hear that his blood work is almost back to normal, and I love the picture of him with his little dalmatian! Fingers crossed for a Christmas Pred decrease!
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 12/04/11 02:46 PM

That is a great picture!

And great news too smile Sounds like the doxy made a difference. I would make sure that's not forgotten, and that the doxy isn't weaned before the pred. Sure can't wait for the pred dose to start reducing!

Kelso says that he'll continue to get better, as long as you don't stop buying him more toys laugh
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 12/04/11 04:25 PM

awwwwwwwwwwww ... that's great that handsome boy of yours liked his toy even if it didn't last too long!!! wub
Posted by: Hollysmom

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. - 12/06/11 09:27 AM

Glad to hear about the blood values being almost normal. I am SO glad this vet is staying on top of the pred dosage. So many many vets will drop the dosage too quickly and the dog will relapse, sometimes with fatal results. Once the values are normal, then by slowly decreasing the dosage, he will continue to improve.
Don't worry, his muscles will return and he will look normal fairly quickly. You will be surprised how quick it all comes back on.
Glad the antibiotics are still on board, they are so so important also to kick this stuff.

checking back constantly to keep up to date on you and kelso.
Posted by: kelso

Kelso has been admitted overnight - 12/11/11 02:16 AM

It is really hard to type this without getting upset so I am going to do my best

Kelso had a hard week. It got cold here this week (20's) which is usually both dog's favorite time. He started doing some strange shaking/trembling. We spoke with the vet and she thought it was due to his muscle and fat loss because of the steroids. Recommended adding puppy food to his diet and a sweater or something.

I got him a sweater, he was ok with that (in hindsight I should have known this was not right) he seemed to get better. Then he got these abrasions the next morning or so from where the sweater was rubbing his front arms. We thought it was so weird.
He then must have panicked or something thursday while we were at work. Dan came home at lunch and he had completely bent his crate to get out. This is a dog that has hardly ever even whined in his crate, has been crate trained for 5 years and sleeps in there on his own, he has never ever been anxious about or tried to get out before,

He was eating/drinking/acting pretty normal still, but my incredibly intuitive husband mentioned he thought he was off and wanted to watch him very close. But he got lethargic this evening. He was eating, but slowly. His muzzle was the slightest bit swollen. He just looked like he was trying so hard teary to cover it up.

So I took him to the ER. They had him admitted in under 30 minutes. Temp 104, vet noted petechia around his eyes and gums. Likely a relapse of the IMHA/ITP but he mentioned a bone marrow biopsy might be done.
Luckily the same internist that did his consult 2 months ago is on call so she is seeing him in the morning after IVF, labs, xrays ect.

Talking about things the abrasions may have been from low platlets, the shaking was probably "the chills" from a fever frown But it went away so fast I just don't know.

The staff was very nice. This is the same place Meeka had her FHO and pyometra surgery. I am glad he is with them. I do not have any lab results yet, I am going to call soon. I was going to stay but they told me I couldn't stay back with him so we are going early in the morning.

The look in his eyes was devastating tonight, like I said he is trying so hard, my big stubborn german boy teary Please keep him in your thoughts and prayers that he will get through this and hopefully will get to go home soon.
He was doing so good teary we are heartbroken and trying to stay positive for him as he tries for us.

--Just spoke to the vet tech she said he is "curled up in a ball" sleeping and his IV is in, doing good. No labs yet, she said I could call every hour and she will be there to talk hugging I appreciate that.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Kelso has been admitted overnight - 12/11/11 02:28 AM

Oh no, this is absolutely terrible news, I'm so sorry hugging hugging

Thoughts, would include aggressive doses of doxy, with revisiting Dodd's protocol, but hopefully the ER has this handled. I worry about the prolonged high doses of pred if this is infection, but back between a rock and a hard place feelingblue


I know how terribly heart wrenching and scary and dangerous this is. I am so so so very sorry hugging hugging hugging
Posted by: kelso

Re: Kelso has been admitted overnight - 12/11/11 02:42 AM

Lisa-
thank you for being on here right now. My husband specifically said I needed to post this in the hopes that you would respond (I have told him all of you advice over the past few months). He was like...you have to call her!

We are ready to do anything and everything at this point. Feel a bit like tick infection has not been taken seriously by the vets? not sure
, and it "could" be something else

I will tell you that when we called the vet tuesday about the "chills" we only had a day left of the doxy (2nd round of 30 day tx) She said it was ok to not continue...the little Lisa on my shoudler was saying NO!!!

So I asked the ER vet tonight, I specifically mentioned that he has not been treated with aggressive doses. He said he thought the two rounds would have kicked anything....

The chills were before he was off of it, but now we have a devastating set back a couple days after he is off of it.

I am going in there tomorrow with the intent that he should be put on the 5mg/lb twice daily dosing unless they have a real good reason not to.

I have no idea what the labs are either at this point, its just scary

have to get to bed, can't wait to see my boy

thank you again, and again
Posted by: Qyn

Re: Kelso has been admitted overnight - 12/11/11 02:52 AM

Steph, hugging thanks for letting us know about Kelso. The petechia in the eyes and gums with the swollen muzzle could still have occurred as a result of the crate escape so ... try to remain calm. Until tests are given and results obtained it is only natural to second guess what is going on ... you have acted quickly and he is where he can receive the treatment he needs. hugging

Best wishes - I am thinking of Kelso and sending good and positive thoughts by the truckload.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Kelso has been admitted overnight - 12/11/11 03:22 AM

If you need it, pm'ed you my number frown

Originally Posted By: kelso
We are ready to do anything and everything at this point. Feel a bit like tick infection has not been taken seriously by the vets? not sure, and it "could" be something else

I think it is like those special "lyme doctors" that get in trouble with the medical board - it takes a special vet to understand exactly how to deal with these tick diseases. I call them tick diseases since that is what they most behave like and most of the time the exposure is there or at least possible. Yes, they "could" be something else, but it really doesn't matter if they respond in the same way, does it?


Quote:
I will tell you that when we called the vet tuesday about the "chills" we only had a day left of the doxy (2nd round of 30 day tx) She said it was ok to not continue...the little Lisa on my shoudler was saying NO!!!

Not only say NO!!!, but maybe jumping up and down and shouting a bit?


Quote:
So I asked the ER vet tonight, I specifically mentioned that he has not been treated with aggressive doses. He said he thought the two rounds would have kicked anything....

Yeah, that's a huge problem. For a dog showing some symptoms, on the tick list, and the resident vets on the list (one remaining, one left years ago), the treatment is 10 mg/kg twice a day for 8 weeks. That's for a dog that's not having the most serious of symptoms, and certainly a dog that's not on pred. In my mind, and this isn't written anywhere, but I start counting the treatment time once the steroids are stopped. Until the steroids are stopped, the doxy is just trying to keep "whatever" from digging deeper.

Ehrlichia dogs sometimes have a certain look to them, it can be similar to a dog on steroids - might be hard to distinguish what you are seeing hugging


Quote:
The chills were before he was off of it, but now we have a devastating set back a couple days after he is off of it.

I am going in there tomorrow with the intent that he should be put on the 5mg/lb twice daily dosing unless they have a real good reason not to.

Perhaps an appeal to logic....

Kelso initially got better on both pred and doxy. On pred along, he didn't improve, and went backwards in some ways.

Back on doxy, labs improved, however, it wasn't the aggressive dose of doxy, and the steroids have been very high. Now, very shortly after the doxy is stopped, this happens. In what world does it make sense to stop it?

Doxy in regular dosages does not kill, but prevents bacteria from growing (bacteriostatic, right? had to google it!). The rest is up to the immune system to keep in check. However, if the dog is on pred, then the immune system is suppressed and cannot finish the job.

There is evidence that bacteriostatic antibiotics, or at least doxy, also has bactericidal properties *when used in high enough doses*.

It does not make sense to me, when a dog is responding, yet still has serious and severe symptoms, that medication is stopped, or even decreased. Yet, this is done all the time.

Qyn made some excellent points about the damage that might have happened because of the crate incident. Poor boy, what must have been going through his head.

I'm off to see if I can find a few links....

Posted by: bianca

Re: Kelso has been admitted overnight - 12/11/11 03:39 AM

Steph, I am so sorry. hugging I have no wisdom to impart but I am keeping you all in my thoughts and prayers hugging
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Kelso has been admitted overnight - 12/11/11 04:59 AM

It's hard to find a written reference to the aggressive dose, *twice* a day. It was written as a standard of care in one reference I'm thinking of, but the newer edition has the lower dose. I did find the following that at least mention teh 10 mg/kg BID (which is roughly 5 mg/lb BID):

http://veterinarycalendar.dvm360.com/avhc/content/printContentPopup.jsp?id=586457
Look under #8, Treatment for Ehrlichia, a stronger recommendation in #8 under the coinfection with lyme and ehrlichia, and, honestly, you have no idea what this is or if there might be coinfections.

http://www.fvmace.org/FVMA%2082nd%20Annu...0in%20Dogs.html
Supports the higher dose for 30 days.

http://books.google.com/books?id=-DN35GU...bid&f=false
This veterinary ICU book supports the higher dose

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1939-1676.1996.tb02061.x/abstract
Just interesting to see the length of treatments here.

Babesia could be a coinfection (there are different babesias too), and the treatment that I'm doing for Max follows some babesia treatment (doxy, cipro for him because it's cheap, and pulsing metro once a month).
http://www.actavetscand.com/content/52/1/27


http://www.parasitesandvectors.com/content/pdf/1756-3305-3-33.pdf
On page 9, in the last paragraph in the Discussion, just before the conclusion, it talks about the effect of steroid suppression in a dog with ehrlichia...yes, it will have a profound increase in platelets, etc., but needs to be used with caution.


eta: while I don't think this is entirely IMHA, this had some good info:
http://www.avsg.net/documents/ImmuneMediatedHemolyticAnemiaHeatherMineoDVMDACVECC.pdf


Do update us when you can hugging


Posted by: arycrest

Re: Kelso has been admitted overnight - 12/11/11 06:08 AM

hugging hugging hugging Steph & Kelso hugging hugging hugging

Sending lots of hugs and prayers your way that Kelso's doing better when you check with the ER ... please give him a huge hug from me!!!
Posted by: Jane Jean

Re: Kelso has been admitted overnight - 12/11/11 08:12 AM

Originally Posted By: arycrest
hugging hugging hugging Steph & Kelso hugging hugging hugging

Sending lots of hugs and prayers your way that Kelso's doing better when you check with the ER ... please give him a huge hug from me!!!

From me too... hugging
Posted by: JeanKBBMMMAAN

Re: Kelso has been admitted overnight - 12/11/11 08:51 AM

I definitely think the swelling is from the crate deal...

Is it possible that his thyroid has crashed in all of this - the shaking, etc? Dr. Dodd's and Michigan State do the thyroid panels.

Hoping he is doing better this morning.
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: Kelso has been admitted overnight - 12/11/11 09:38 AM

I am reading this with tears in my eyes - I can "hear" your fear for Kelso.

I will be thinking of you both and wishing the best results of this overnight visit. So happy you have a supportive and caring husband to help you take care of Kelso.

hugging
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Kelso has been admitted overnight - 12/11/11 09:41 AM

Steph,

It's great that an internist familiar with Kelso's problems will be consulting this morning. This is just so much to handle.

You and your husband are really in tune with your boy to recognize all those signs.

All possible wishes for better news this morning. Like others, I'll check back.

take care,
Mary Jane
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: Kelso has been admitted overnight - 12/11/11 11:37 AM

Just saw this, Steph. I am so sorry and I am worried about your boy Kelso. hugging

High and prolonged doses of steroids freak me out b/c they wreak havoc on the immune system. But this is all so out of my league so I can only send you the very best and strongest healing thoughts for Kelso.
Posted by: Braverhund

Re: Kelso has been admitted overnight - 12/11/11 11:39 AM

Many positive thoughts being sent for your sweet boy Kelso. I'm so very sorry you are going through this right now. hugging Wishing only the very best for Kelso!
Posted by: Woodreb

Re: Kelso has been admitted overnight - 12/11/11 12:46 PM

Good thoughts and prayers being sent from CT for Kelso.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Kelso has been admitted overnight - 12/11/11 02:29 PM

Hoping for a positive update, worried about you guys over there hugging
Posted by: kelso

Re: Kelso has been admitted overnight - 12/11/11 02:32 PM

Updating from my phone , have never done this from my phone so hope it works

We are still waiting to speak w the vet regarding the plan, guess it has been crazy in the ER and she has had some procedures.

We have been up there this morning, brought him his mean stuffed cat. Eyes looked a bit better, but clearly not well. He tore out his iv so the were replacing it. His temp went down overnight but was 105.6 this am. He liked that we were there nice to see him perk up a bit. Platelets are 45,000 so pretty low.

Thank you all again for the thoughts and prayers. I will ask about the thyroid
Posted by: Braverhund

Re: Kelso has been admitted overnight - 12/11/11 02:36 PM

Thank you so much for updating. Can you see/feel these hugs from your phone? hugging hugging hugging I'm hoping the vet attends to Kelso soon and very well. Many more good thoughts, vibes, healing energy and prayers being sent for Kelso. Good that he has his mean stuffed cat. May his temp stabilize and may the vet be able to help Kelso. Thank you for the update!
Posted by: mspiker03

Re: Kelso has been admitted overnight - 12/11/11 02:37 PM

I am sorry to hear about Kelso. While I don't post often, I do read quite a bit. I read this article this morning and thought of you guys. While the article talks about allergies, I still thought it would be an interesting read since Kelso is on steriods.

http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/oral-steroids-and-vitamin-d-deficiency/
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Kelso has been admitted overnight - 12/11/11 03:17 PM

(Interesting article!)

Thanks for updating Steph! I was getting really worried without any news. Well, heck, still really worried hugging
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Kelso has been admitted overnight - 12/11/11 03:22 PM

Btw, your phone posting worked great - watch out, once you do it once....

Platelets are low, but the last dog I saw with a plaetelet crash was down to 18...he's on a lifetime low dose of tetracycline now, but doing well.

I hope you are talking with the vet now - waiting is so hard. Extra hugs and scritches to kelso.
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Kelso has been admitted overnight - 12/11/11 03:44 PM

Originally Posted By: kelso
Updating from my phone , have never done this from my phone so hope it works

We are still waiting to speak w the vet regarding the plan, guess it has been crazy in the ER and she has had some procedures.

We have been up there this morning, brought him his mean stuffed cat. Eyes looked a bit better, but clearly not well. He tore out his iv so the were replacing it. His temp went down overnight but was 105.6 this am. He liked that we were there nice to see him perk up a bit. Platelets are 45,000 so pretty low.

Thank you all again for the thoughts and prayers. I will ask about the thyroid
Thank you so much for the update, we were worried about how he was doing. Glad he got his mean stuffed cat! Hope you can talk to the vet soon. Sending lots of prayers!
hugging hugging hugging Steph & kelso hugging hugging hugging
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Kelso has been admitted overnight - 12/11/11 03:48 PM

Originally Posted By: mspiker03
I am sorry to hear about Kelso. While I don't post often, I do read quite a bit. I read this article this morning and thought of you guys. While the article talks about allergies, I still thought it would be an interesting read since Kelso is on steriods.

http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/oral-steroids-and-vitamin-d-deficiency/
That's an interesting article!
Posted by: kelso

Re: Kelso has been admitted overnight - 12/11/11 05:05 PM

Kelso is very sick

It is hard for me to keep it together right now but I want you guys to know as you have always been there for our dogs

His elbow has blown up overnight, when I saw it I thought it was from the IV he pulled out this morning, the vet thinks he has a quickly spreading infection in that area. Possibly other places, urine/blood, possibly sepsis if it is in his blood. His elbow was fine yesterday which is why she is concerned as it moved fast. She is also worried about his low plts - not sure if it is the autoimmune stuff or the infection doing this, but the infection is what has to be stopped at this point

he will not be coming home, staying in the icu for IV antibiotics/fluids. She is going to do all she can of course, surgery not likely as he will lose that leg she said if she did that. We will be with him, I took him his blanket as well

I have never really known what this grief feels like racking your body for your dog and best friend, Kelso is my first puppy, and own dog. I would not wish it on my worst enemy.

thank you again, your thoughts and prayers are comforting
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Kelso has been admitted overnight - 12/11/11 05:21 PM

One of my worst fears for him, I cannot express how sorry and worried I am for your boy.

I can say, the combination of doxy and cipro have been a lifesaver for Max. What are they using for kelso? I was reading an artical last night about cipro in some rickettsia infections, so we may have stumbled upon something here.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Kelso has been admitted overnight - 12/11/11 05:22 PM

What is the rest of the CBC showing?
Posted by: DaisyShadow

Re: Kelso has been admitted overnight - 12/11/11 05:54 PM

Praying my hardest my friend. Please call if you need me I will come running. If only to hug you. Love you all!
Posted by: Barb E

Re: Kelso has been admitted overnight - 12/11/11 06:09 PM

Oh my

*Zooming good thoughts and tons of huggings your way*
Posted by: Lexi

Re: Kelso has been admitted overnight - 12/11/11 06:18 PM

Praying for Kelso....many, many hugging and much love coming your way!
Posted by: GrandJan

Re: Kelso has been admitted overnight - 12/11/11 06:22 PM

Sending many, many prayers for all of you.
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: Kelso has been admitted overnight - 12/11/11 06:54 PM

Kelso is on my mind and in my heart. I hope they soon find and control whatever is going on in his body. hugging
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Kelso has been admitted overnight - 12/11/11 07:08 PM

hugging hugging hugging hugging hugging hugging hugging hugging hugging
God Steph, I'm sitting here bawling my eyes out.
I wish I could do something, anything!
hugging hugging hugginghugging hugging hugging hugging hugging hugging
Posted by: DancingCavy

Re: Kelso has been admitted overnight - 12/11/11 07:09 PM

I'm so sorry to hear of Kelso's turn for the worse. Sending good thoughts and strength your way.
Posted by: Jane Jean

Re: Kelso has been admitted overnight - 12/11/11 07:42 PM

Keeping you and Kelso in my prayers, Steph.(((hugs)))
Posted by: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: Kelso has been admitted overnight - 12/11/11 07:56 PM

Steph, OMG I am so sorry that Kelso is not doing well.

I am with MaxaLisa on suggesting the use of 2 different ABX. The one time that DeeDee go so ill so fast, the Vet gave her a cocktail of 3 different ABX. So at times I think aggessive use of multiple ABX is a good choice.

Since he has been on long term Pred, my question is are they sill giving it. With long term usage taper off is the only method suggested.
Posted by: SeanRescueMom

Re: Kelso has been admitted overnight - 12/11/11 08:39 PM

Originally Posted By: kelso


It is hard for me to keep it together right now but I want you guys to know as you have always been there for our dogs


I'm sure everyone on the board is rooting for Kelso. My thoughts go out to you and I hope you have better news tomorrow. Having been on a roller coaster with Sean and his autoimmune illness I can empathize with you. Hugs from Sean and me to Kelso and you. hugging
Posted by: Kris

Re: Kelso has been admitted overnight - 12/11/11 08:45 PM

Oh Steph... so scary... Sending lots of healing thoughts to Kelso and hugs to you and hubby... hugging
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: Kelso has been admitted overnight - 12/11/11 08:46 PM

Aw, Steph--my heart is going out to you, DH and Kelso. Sending you tons of strength and calming energy and powerful healing thoughts still going to Kelso. hugging
Posted by: Karin

Re: Kelso has been admitted overnight - 12/11/11 08:57 PM

I'm so sorry to hear about Kelso. Sending more positive and healing thoughts to him, and big hugs to you. So sorry that Kelso, you, and your husband are going through this. hugging
Posted by: kelso

Re: Kelso has been admitted overnight - 12/11/11 09:33 PM

hello again

Got home a bit ago, spent some more time with Kels, he is comfortable with some things from home except for the cone he is wearing

His mouth has looked worse all day so not sure what is up with that yet. They shaved his elbow where he has the swelling and drainage. She wants to rule out necrotizing fasciitis because of the fact that it came up over less than 24 hours. So he has a surgery consult for the morning. They are doing "hydrotherapy" for the elbow.

The vet started him on clindamycin and ampicillin IV as she is concerned for staph/strep with the elbow. His white count is "very low" I do not have exact numbers just what she told me. She stated this suggested sepsis. He is having cultures of all the fluids in his body sent (urine, blood, wound).
His hemoglobin, MCV and RBC's are ok. Platlets low.
His vital signs are stable, still running a fever but improved.

This is all very confusing, turning into something I never expected and not sure we really know what is going on for sure.

I am going to get some sleep and tuck Allie in, going back tomorrow

thank you



Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Kelso has been admitted overnight - 12/11/11 09:40 PM

hugging hugging hugging

the clindamycin will treat babesia, which can cause this, among other things.

crossedfingers crossedfingers crossedfingers
Posted by: JeanKBBMMMAAN

Re: Kelso has been admitted overnight - 12/11/11 09:51 PM

Oh my gosh, great big XOXO to Kelso (and his loving sister) and to you both - worrying about him - it's so hard. I am so hoping that these things will hit him hard and help him bounce back. This is...good thoughts and prayers.
Posted by: GraciesMommy

Re: Kelso has been admitted overnight - 12/11/11 10:04 PM

hugging hugging hugging
Posted by: kaisersmom

Re: Kelso has been admitted overnight - 12/11/11 10:08 PM

Our thoughts and prayers are with you and Kelso - keeping our fingers, toes and paws crossed that there is good news soon! hugging
Posted by: LJsMom

Re: Kelso has been admitted overnight - 12/11/11 10:11 PM

Keeping Kelso in my thoughts and prayers.
Posted by: Braverhund

Re: Kelso has been admitted overnight - 12/11/11 10:25 PM

May the IV abx cocktail support Kelso, and help stabilize him. He is in a good place, it seerms, with people watching carefully over him. I am sending more positive vibes for Kelso, more strength and calming vibes for you Steph. hugging hugging hugging Take some extra hugs from Allie right now. Thank you for updating. Comntinuing to send positive vibes Kelso's way!
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Kelso has been admitted overnight - 12/11/11 10:34 PM

Originally Posted By: Braverhund
May the IV abx cocktail support Kelso, and help stabilize him. He is in a good place, it seerms, with people watching carefully over him. I am sending more positive vibes for Kelso, more strength and calming vibes for you Steph. hugging hugging hugging Take some extra hugs from Allie right now. Thank you for updating. Comntinuing to send positive vibes Kelso's way!
Patty said everything I wanted to say, but said it better!!!
Posted by: Castlemaid

Re: Kelso has been admitted overnight - 12/11/11 10:41 PM

I'm so sorry - this is so hard. Sending good wishes and lots of love to you and your big boy. I'll be thinking about you guys.
Posted by: Cassidy's Mom

Re: Kelso has been admitted overnight - 12/11/11 10:48 PM

Oh, no, no, no, no.... I'm so sorry Steph, I'm really hoping to hear some better news soon. wub Kelso
Posted by: Catu

Re: Kelso has been admitted overnight - 12/11/11 10:57 PM

I am so sorry for all you are going through. My best wishes and energy vibes for Kelso, thanks for keeping us updated knowing you have so much in your hands right now.
Posted by: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: Kelso has been admitted overnight - 12/11/11 11:47 PM

grouphugSending you a group cyber hug.
Posted by: Qyn

Re: Kelso has been admitted overnight - 12/12/11 02:27 AM

I keep reading this thread with crossedfingers - thanks for each and every update. I hope you can get some sleep. Hugs to you all.
Posted by: bianca

Re: Kelso has been admitted overnight - 12/12/11 04:01 AM

Oh Steph, please know I am keeping you all in my thoughts and prayers. So hoping that the abx will help turn him around by morning hugging hugging
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Kelso has been admitted overnight - 12/12/11 09:07 AM

Steph,

I truly hope that this is a good morning for Kelso and his family.

Fingers still crossed,
Mary Jane
Posted by: JeanKBBMMMAAN

Re: Kelso has been admitted overnight - 12/12/11 09:50 AM

Adding my hopes that you are having a good morning.
Posted by: TMarie

Re: Kelso has been admitted overnight - 12/12/11 10:15 AM

Steph,

I haven't commented until now, but please know I have been following this thread and only wishing the best for you and Kelso.

Hoping this morning finds Kelso better.
Posted by: GSDBESTK9

Re: Kelso has been admitted overnight - 12/12/11 10:15 AM

Thoughts and prayers going your way.
Posted by: HeidiGSD

Re: Kelso has been admitted overnight - 12/12/11 10:29 AM

I have been checking in on Kelso but just wanted to tell you that I am thinking about you and him hugging hugging hugging
It just really rips your heart out when they are so sick. I hope he gets better real soon.
Posted by: AgilePaws

Re: Kelso has been admitted overnight - 12/12/11 11:12 AM

Sending thoughts and prayers to Kelso. hugging
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Kelso has been admitted overnight - 12/12/11 11:38 AM

Checking in with you this morning...hoping for some good news.

hugging
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Kelso has been admitted overnight - 12/12/11 01:44 PM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
Checking in with you this morning...hoping for some good news.

hugging
Me too!!! hugging
Posted by: Sylv

Re: Kelso has been admitted overnight - 12/12/11 02:11 PM

Thinking of you!!!
Posted by: kelso

Re: Kelso has been admitted overnight - 12/12/11 02:41 PM

popping in real quick

Different vet this am, critical care doc, she made me feel alot more optimistic today than how we were feeling yesterday

He is looking better, head was up today to say hi smile

Specialists are coming around for rounds this afternoon (now Derm is involved) so am going back this afternoon to be with him and get more updates and will be back here later as well!

thanks
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: Kelso has been admitted overnight - 12/12/11 03:02 PM

Glad to see a more positive update. Thinking of all of you! hugging
Posted by: GraciesMommy

Re: Kelso has been admitted overnight - 12/12/11 03:27 PM

hugging crossedfingers
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Kelso has been admitted overnight - 12/12/11 03:30 PM

Originally Posted By: kelso
popping in real quick

Different vet this am, critical care doc, she made me feel alot more optimistic today than how we were feeling yesterday

He is looking better, head was up today to say hi smile

Specialists are coming around for rounds this afternoon (now Derm is involved) so am going back this afternoon to be with him and get more updates and will be back here later as well!

thanks
grouphug So happy to hear he's looking somewhat better!!!
Posted by: aubie

Re: Kelso has been admitted overnight - 12/12/11 03:35 PM

Oh Steph, I'm just now seeing all the new developments!! I'm so sorry! Zooming positive vibes and prayers to all of you right now!! Giant hugs!!!

grouphug crossedfingers grouphug
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Kelso has been admitted overnight - 12/12/11 04:38 PM

Originally Posted By: kelso
popping in real quick

Different vet this am, critical care doc, she made me feel alot more optimistic today than how we were feeling yesterday

He is looking better, head was up today to say hi smile

Specialists are coming around for rounds this afternoon (now Derm is involved) so am going back this afternoon to be with him and get more updates and will be back here later as well!

thanks


So glad to see some encouraging news. Yay!
Posted by: Furonthefloor

Re: Kelso has been admitted overnight - 12/12/11 05:06 PM

crossedfingers Hoping Kelso is feeling even better next time you update.
Posted by: JakodaCD OA

Re: Kelso has been admitted overnight - 12/12/11 05:10 PM

am hoping and praying Kelso feels better soon !!
Posted by: Natalie559

Re: Kelso has been admitted overnight - 12/12/11 05:36 PM

I hope Kelso is feeling better this afternoon and that you got some good info from the vets!
Posted by: Qyn

Re: Kelso has been admitted overnight - 12/12/11 05:57 PM

Thanks for the update, short or quick is fine - I'm glad to read of any improvement!
Posted by: kelso

big change in the last 24 hr! - 12/12/11 06:15 PM

I am waiting for Dan to get home so we can head back.

Just spoke with the vet and she said he is doing really good. He ate all day today, no fever all day either. So great, the turnaround with the atbx is amazing

Hopefully more good updates from what the consultants said when I get back!
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: big change in the last 24 hr! - 12/12/11 06:22 PM

Originally Posted By: kelso
I am waiting for Dan to get home so we can head back.

Just spoke with the vet and she said he is doing really good. He ate all day today, no fever all day either. So great, the turnaround with the atbx is amazing

Hopefully more good updates from what the consultants said when I get back!


This is HUGE! party

I was *really* worried about the choice of abx, so glad it's working. This may help me with Max too, as we have had discussions about clindamycin.

So relieved, but I'm sure not as much as you are hugging

A recommendation? No weaning off the abx before the pred???
Posted by: DancingCavy

Re: big change in the last 24 hr! - 12/12/11 06:50 PM

So glad to hear some good news!
Posted by: arycrest

Re: big change in the last 24 hr! - 12/12/11 06:52 PM

Originally Posted By: kelso
I am waiting for Dan to get home so we can head back.

Just spoke with the vet and she said he is doing really good. He ate all day today, no fever all day either. So great, the turnaround with the atbx is amazing

Hopefully more good updates from what the consultants said when I get back!
happyboogie Wow, what fantastic news ... It's like a miracle! groovy
hugging Sending Kelso, you & Dan lots of hugs! hugging
Posted by: Jane Jean

Re: big change in the last 24 hr! - 12/12/11 06:56 PM

I am so glad to read this! Whew....Keep on healing Kelso!!
Posted by: JakodaCD OA

Re: big change in the last 24 hr! - 12/12/11 07:08 PM

sooo happy for you all !!! keeping fingers crossed things get better and better!
Posted by: Woodreb

Re: big change in the last 24 hr! - 12/12/11 07:34 PM

Glad to hear that Kelso is doing better. Good thoughts and prayers for his continued improvement.
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: big change in the last 24 hr! - 12/12/11 07:34 PM

So glad to hear this news. I hope he continues to improve.
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: big change in the last 24 hr! - 12/12/11 08:42 PM

Originally Posted By: kelso
....he is doing really good.... the turnaround with the atbx is amazing............



Truly music to the ear.

Fervent best wishes for the improvements to continue all the way to Kelso's recovery.

Hang in there,
Mary Jane
Posted by: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: big change in the last 24 hr! - 12/12/11 08:53 PM

Originally Posted By: kelso

Just spoke with the vet and she said he is doing really good. He ate all day today, no fever all day either. So great, the turnaround with the atbx is amazing

Hopefully more good updates from what the consultants said when I get back!


You go give that big boy some cyber hugs from his board family. I am so happy there is a good sign of him responding to the ABX.

grouphug grouphug present
Posted by: Braverhund

Re: big change in the last 24 hr! - 12/12/11 08:59 PM

Yay, Steph-- yay Kelso!! happyboogie This is wonderful news! Continuing to send positive vibes for Kelso to continue to amaze with a very speedy, smooth, and complete recovery! groovy
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: big change in the last 24 hr! - 12/12/11 09:11 PM

What a gift! Hopefully Kelso will continue to improve rapidly and will be home soon. (Maybe tonight?)

I am so happy to read good news here!
Posted by: Karin

Re: big change in the last 24 hr! - 12/12/11 09:27 PM

Hooray! This is such great news! I hope this trend continues and that he gets to come home soon.

party
Posted by: Kris

Re: big change in the last 24 hr! - 12/12/11 09:55 PM

So good to hear this great update, Steph!! Still sending healing thoughts and prayers to Kelso!!
Posted by: kaisersmom

Re: big change in the last 24 hr! - 12/12/11 10:14 PM

Excellent news!! Maybe a true Christmas miracle in the works and potentially the best gift ever!!! present Hoping and praying that Kelso makes a full and speedy recovery!!
Posted by: kelso

Kelso is home - 12/12/11 11:02 PM

So happy to say that Kelso is home tonight!!!

We went to the vet at around 6 again, the surgeon and dermatologist had seen him. No surgery or biopsies needed - as he improved so much in the last 24 hours the critical care doc said he could go smile

We just got him tucked in, we created a little apartment for him smile He is on a decreased dose of pred, clinda three times a day and pentoxyphylline as the derm thought he had a vasculitis with an infection. Pain meds as well.
We are doing some "hydrotherapy" which I did with him when we got home...not sure how much he likes that but it keeps his wounds clean.

We see the specialist in 2 days.

He was in some pain when we got home, but seems comfortable now. He has Allie with him so I think that makes him feel better as well. Eating good. The jaw swelling is gone.

I don't know what else to say, just so happy and thankful. He has a long road but he is determined.

thank you all from the bottom of my heart, I truely think all of the thoughts and prayers made such a difference

gotta go pet my dog smile smile smile smile smile WHO IS RIGHT NEXT TO ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: Schnickle Fritz

Re: Kelso is home - 12/12/11 11:04 PM

YEAH!!!!
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: Kelso is home - 12/12/11 11:04 PM

Wow, I am SO happy that he is home with you all! party

What a huge relief. I was so worried about Mr. Kelso.
Posted by: Jane Jean

Re: Kelso is home - 12/12/11 11:09 PM

This is great to read before I go to bed. I'm sure he is as happy to be home snuggling with you as you are!
Posted by: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: Kelso is home - 12/12/11 11:10 PM

I am so glad he is home. What a strong fighter he is. I am sure he will sleep good tonight being at home.

present
Posted by: JeanKBBMMMAAN

Re: Kelso is home - 12/12/11 11:21 PM

happyboogie

That is awesome!

Not a NSAID with the Pred right for pain - just paranoid!
Posted by: Braverhund

Re: Kelso is home - 12/12/11 11:22 PM

party Woohoo! Thank goodness Kelso is home with you! cheers
Posted by: Woodreb

Re: Kelso is home - 12/12/11 11:47 PM

Good to hear that Kelso is home.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Kelso is home - 12/12/11 11:51 PM

Oh gosh, this is just great. So happy for you all tonight, what a great night!

Just a slight caution. I've never used clindamycin here, but I know tha in humans, it's one of the abx very well known for triggering clostridium difficile, because it's such a potent abx. Probiotics might be a really good idea. This is the abx that caused my mom to lose her colon, though it wasn't a very healthy colon to start with.

So, so pleased and relieved!! Happy day!
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Kelso is home - 12/13/11 01:15 AM

party Doing the Happy Dance ... Kelso is one strong fighter ... can't think of any news I'd rather hear!!! christmastree
Posted by: bianca

Re: Kelso is home - 12/13/11 05:18 AM

party Oh this is the best news!!!!! I am so happy for you and Kelso! Continued thoughts and prayers that he keeps making a rapid recovery!

Um Brad has been on the same abx and yes it wreaked havoc with his bowels.
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: Kelso is home - 12/13/11 06:24 AM

Yes! groovy Kelso is home!
Posted by: Qyn

Re: Kelso is home - 12/13/11 07:11 AM

groovy Wonderful news, simply wonderful! I'm grinning from ear to ear to read this - it has made my day. thanks
Posted by: JakodaCD OA

Re: Kelso is home - 12/13/11 07:28 AM

this is a wonderful early xmas present:) Hugs to you all
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Kelso is home - 12/13/11 08:32 AM

I'm so happy for you all!

I hope everybody had a restful night.

all the best,
Mary Jane
Posted by: Natalie559

Re: Kelso is home - 12/13/11 09:00 AM

Wonderful news- so happy for you and your family!!!!!
Posted by: aubie

Re: Kelso is home - 12/13/11 09:46 AM

I love coming back and seeing WONDERFUL updates!!! happyboogie
Posted by: kaisersmom

Re: Kelso is home - 12/13/11 09:46 AM

Welcome Home, Kelso!! happyboogie gsdsit
Posted by: DancingCavy

Re: Kelso is home - 12/13/11 09:56 AM

So happy to hear such outstanding news! I hope Kelso continues to improve.
Posted by: Sylv

Re: Kelso is home - 12/13/11 10:17 AM

I'm so happy to read this!
Posted by: Kris

Re: Kelso is home - 12/13/11 10:20 AM

Way to go big guy! You are one tough boy and I know your mom and dad are beyond thrilled that you're home and on the mend!!!!
Posted by: GraciesMommy

Re: Kelso is home - 12/13/11 10:27 AM

happyboogie
Posted by: Hollysmom

Re: Kelso is home - 12/13/11 10:53 AM

I am so sorry about kelso having a major setback, but from reading this, seems he is getting back to normal.
The problem with fighting a disease like this is one med can screw up another med. The pred is necessary to keep the immune system subdued to have it quit killing the good blood cells. But, because the pred kills the immune system, it also makes it so easy for infections to spread very quickly and take a long time healing.
I looked up my girls vet records and she was on Doxy for about 3 months, then I realized we switched to Amoxi for the remaining months(about 2 or 3)until her prednisone had been completely eliminated and all her counts were back to normal. She initially had a temp of 104 when first diagnosed with AIHA, but it seemed to stay down after that.
I think alot of the reason she bounced back so fast was she was only 5 1/2 months old, so I think she was able to bounce back from the setbacks a bit quicker.
Setbacks happen and although terrifying, you are doing all you can do for Kelso. He is a fighter and I think that is so important also, they HAVE to fight to stay alive during this long involved disease. I also congratulate you and your husband that you are noticing things that many would just "wait and watch" and that can prove fatal. You see the little things that concern you and act on them, Kelso has his life to thank for your observations and loving care.
Will keep checking back many times a day. I have pm'd you my phone number in case you just need to talk with someone who has been through this shit.
Posted by: TMarie

Re: Kelso is home - 12/13/11 12:53 PM

Wonderful news!!!!So good to read this this morning!
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Kelso is home - 12/13/11 07:07 PM

How is he doing today?
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Kelso is home - 12/13/11 08:32 PM

Originally Posted By: Hollysmom
.... I looked up my girls vet records and she was on Doxy for about 3 months, then I realized we switched to Amoxi for the remaining months(about 2 or 3)until her prednisone had been completely eliminated and all her counts were back to normal. She initially had a temp of 104 when first diagnosed with AIHA, but it seemed to stay down after that. ....


Interesting, thanks for looking that up!
Posted by: Barb E

Re: Kelso is home - 12/13/11 09:46 PM

groovy
This is good
Posted by: Qyn

Re: Kelso is home - 12/13/11 11:45 PM

Originally Posted By: Hollysmom

......Setbacks happen and although terrifying, you are doing all you can do for Kelso. He is a fighter and I think that is so important also, they HAVE to fight to stay alive during this long involved disease. I also congratulate you and your husband that you are noticing things that many would just "wait and watch" and that can prove fatal. You see the little things that concern you and act on them, Kelso has his life to thank for your observations and loving care.
......


This is what I have been thinking and you said it perfectly.
Posted by: kelso

Re: Kelso is home - 12/13/11 11:46 PM

Everything is going pretty good. Doing the water therapy stuff for the elbow, he takes his meds like a champ. He really is a good patient, the vet techs commented on that smile He was patient with me when I was half awake getting his forelimbs in the tub at 515 this morning crazy

Hollysmom I agree they have to be a fighter, I do not think he has really felt good since September but he keeps on pushing.

I walked him a few houses down and back today. He liked that. I think Allie is kindof afriad of the big saucer on his head

That is interesting about the doxy/amox - thank you very much for looking it up. I appreciate your thoughts v much and the fact that your girl made it through keeps me positive!

The pain med is tramadol, no NSAIDS. smile

I thought about the clinda thing in people, something on my list to ask the vet - we have an appt thursday morning.

thanks again, and again!

christmastree
Posted by: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: Kelso is home - 12/13/11 11:51 PM

Steph,

I am glad to hear Kelso is doing well at home. Give the big guy a hug from all of us and tell him if he starts feeling poorly again he should let his mom and dad know sooner.
Posted by: kelso

Re: Kelso is home - 12/13/11 11:51 PM

Hollysmom- did your girl have any setbacks? My husband was asking me this the other day and I remember you have said setbacks before but was not sure what happened.

And you are right about watching close, everything!, I am still obsessing over things that we maybe SHOULD have noticed.... I just could not believe how quickly he was so sick, I thought we were going to lose him. Then how quickly he got better. This has been such a roller coaster, we all want off.
Posted by: kelso

Re: Kelso is home - 12/13/11 11:52 PM

Originally Posted By: Wisc.Tiger_Val
Steph,

I am glad to hear Kelso is doing well at home. Give the big guy a hug from all of us and tell him if he starts feeling poorly again he should let his mom and dad know sooner.


Absolutely!!

Also wanted to tell you our calendars came today!!! WOHOO!!
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Kelso is home - 12/14/11 12:11 AM

Exactly what are you doing with the elbow, just soaking it? Not that that's easy at all!

I am not sure that he got so sick so sudden. I think he was probably getting worse internally, but you couldn't see. Then it passes some threshold, and there is the big crash. Remember those toxic neutrophils? Those things that don't make sense until you have hindsight.

In some sense, you are probably lucky that he crash so radically. If it was only a slight crash, it might not have been clear there was infection, and maybe stronger immuno-suppressants would have been started. There are different ways that this could have gone.

So, the question of infection is settled. There is infection. Now, dealing with both the infection and immune dysfunction, hopefully, balancing these two, there will be nothing but steady and solid improvement now!

Originally Posted By: kelso
The pain med is tramadol, no NSAIDS. smile

rofl I thought of Jean immediately when you said painkiller smile
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Kelso is home - 12/14/11 12:23 AM

I may have mentioned this earlier, but a blood panel on Allie at some point might be a good idea?
Posted by: Braverhund

Re: Kelso is home - 12/14/11 12:37 AM

Steph, more good thoughts for Kelso to continue doing better and better! bloomrose
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Kelso is home - 12/14/11 02:22 AM

happyboogie Happy that things are still going well for Kelso (well for all of you really), and still sending warm thoughts and prayers that he'll continue recovering as quickly as possible!!!
Posted by: bianca

Re: Kelso is home - 12/14/11 04:48 AM

Hoping Kelso had another good day smile
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Kelso is home - 12/14/11 12:04 PM

Steph,

Kelso and his family are getting tons more supremely best wishes for recovery for everyone. When I recall losing Wolf (OK, somehow it's always there) I want so terribly much that no one, dog or person, goes through that.

Fingers firmly crossed for a clear path back to health,

Mary Jane
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Kelso is home - 12/14/11 12:28 PM

Originally Posted By: Mary Jane
S When I recall losing Wolf (OK, somehow it's always there) I want so terribly much that no one, dog or person, goes through that.


Amen.

grouphug
Posted by: Woodreb

Re: Kelso is home - 12/14/11 01:20 PM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
Originally Posted By: Mary Jane
S When I recall losing Wolf (OK, somehow it's always there) I want so terribly much that no one, dog or person, goes through that.


Amen.

grouphug


I agree.
Posted by: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: Kelso is home - 12/14/11 11:42 PM

Just checking in on Kelso and you.
Posted by: kelso

Re: Kelso is home - 12/15/11 12:38 AM

Originally Posted By: Woodreb
Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
Originally Posted By: Mary Jane
S When I recall losing Wolf (OK, somehow it's always there) I want so terribly much that no one, dog or person, goes through that.


Amen.

grouphug


I agree.


Absolutely. Thank you so much for the thoughts, it means alot coming from alot of people who have much more experience than I do and that understand those feelings.

Kelso had a good day, acting quite spiffy parts of the day smile Shoving his cone into me legs and what not.

I will talk with the vet tomorrow about a blood panel for Allie, we have an appt in the am. She called today, the wound grew a bug, the urine did not so it was not systemic which is good.

The water therapy is basically we put his forlimbs in the tub and use a detachable shower nozzle and hold it over the wounds for a few minutes each with tepid water on a soft setting.

Nothing but good news today, was excited to see him smile again!
Posted by: Braverhund

Re: Kelso is home - 12/15/11 12:38 AM

All feels right with the world when they are again home with us. wub Hoping you and Kelso are doing well!
Posted by: kelso

Re: Kelso is home - 12/15/11 12:40 AM

Originally Posted By: Braverhund
All feels right with the world when they are again home with us. wub Hoping you and Kelso are doing well!


You are SO right. I was just thinking that yesterday, everything feels right again.....
hugging Thank you!
Posted by: Braverhund

Re: Kelso is home - 12/15/11 12:43 AM

hugging hugging hugging x a gazillion, for you and Mr. Kelso! gsdsit
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Kelso is home - 12/15/11 01:24 AM

Originally Posted By: Braverhund
hugging hugging hugging x a gazillion, for you and Mr. Kelso! gsdsit
Ditto ... Patti said it all! christmastree
hugging hugging hugging
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: Kelso is home - 12/15/11 01:42 AM

So glad that he continues to feel better!
Posted by: kelso

Re: Kelso is home - 12/15/11 02:31 AM

Kelso 2nd day home in the first pic. You can see the areas they are calling vasculitis, the right elbow is the one that is infected (left looking at the screen), looking better and the whole arm was swollen at one point and today looks normal sized.... this pic is bad as it grainy/on my phone, but he looks 1,000 times better than he did sunday if you can imagine that

For those that have not seen, his belly is previously shaven from his ultrasound



A smile tonight! The way his ears curl in his cone is cute. Obviously he has a long road but he is really getting so much better everyday



thank you again!
Posted by: kelso

Re: Kelso is home - 12/15/11 02:52 AM

and for comparison....

I am dreading the snow this year. I usually love it, as the dogs do. But I just do not think Kelso will be able to do it?!? Hopefully he will feel better.

10 months ago





9 months ago



Hoping he can get back to his old self and chase his balls again someday! Kindof done with 2011 at this point. But just happy to have him home with us right now smile Baby steps!


Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Kelso is home - 12/15/11 03:27 AM

Originally Posted By: kelso
.....She called today, the wound grew a bug, the urine did not so it was not systemic which is good.....


Interesting way to think about it - sure is a logical! I do know that tick diseases will *not* culture in urine, yet are systemic, so there might possibly be some holes in that theory for some infections? Very interested to hear what's in that wound.

Poor guy, looks like he's been through WWIII. Now let's hope that there is a clear path back to food health crossedfingers

Love this:

Quote:


Posted by: bianca

Re: Kelso is home - 12/15/11 03:56 AM

I am so happy he is feeling better and what better way to show it then by whacking the offending cone into Mum!!!!

Kelso you look like a beautiful patchwork wub
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Kelso is home - 12/15/11 07:24 AM

As sick as he was 3 days ago, he looks mighty good to me!!! wub
Posted by: JakodaCD OA

Re: Kelso is home - 12/15/11 07:38 AM

he DOES look good!!!
Posted by: Qyn

Re: Kelso is home - 12/15/11 07:46 AM

Originally Posted By: bianca
I am so happy he is feeling better and what better way to show it then by whacking the offending cone into Mum!!!!


I agree!!


Kelso looks way better in the second cone photo both in posture and expression - great to see. hugging
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Kelso is home - 12/15/11 08:43 AM

That smile...that smile says so much.

Step by step Kelso, keep getting better.

MJ
Posted by: GraciesMommy

Re: Kelso is home - 12/15/11 09:23 AM

LOVE LOVE LOVE the smile!!!!!!!
Posted by: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: Kelso is home - 12/15/11 10:52 AM

Kelso, I am glad to see you smile. Maybe you should have your mom check out Rosa sporting her niffy red snow suit. That would help those naked areas you have, so you could enjoy the snow.
Posted by: Furonthefloor

Re: Kelso is home - 12/15/11 11:15 AM

huggingsending you a healthy cyber boost Kelso. You keep getting better!

huggingto Allie too!
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: Kelso is home - 12/15/11 07:00 PM

Kelso, you are looking so much better! I hope you continue to do better each day!
Posted by: SeanRescueMom

Re: Kelso is home - 12/15/11 08:55 PM

You can tell by the look in Kelso's eyes that he is happy to be home where he belongs. hug paw
Posted by: aubie

Re: Kelso is home - 12/16/11 03:34 PM

Aww...glad he's home and causing cone damage! Always a good sign! And Anna sayz: Don't worry Kel, chicks dig scarz. wink
Posted by: JeanKBBMMMAAN

Re: Kelso is home - 12/16/11 06:19 PM

Handsome boy will be ready for the snow when it hits!
Posted by: kelso

Re: Kelso is home - 12/16/11 11:59 PM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
Originally Posted By: kelso
.....She called today, the wound grew a bug, the urine did not so it was not systemic which is good.....


Interesting way to think about it - sure is a logical! I do know that tick diseases will *not* culture in urine, yet are systemic, so there might possibly be some holes in that theory for some infections? Very interested to hear what's in that wound.

Poor guy, looks like he's been through WWIII. Now let's hope that there is a clear path back to food health crossedfingers

Love this:



The culture grew beta hemolytic streptococcus. I know it is normal to have strep on the skin in humans and assume it is the same for dogs. My theory still is the sweater/breaking out of the crate caused the break in the skin which allowed it to become infected as his immune system is so suppressed. The vets say vasculitis. Who knows, he had some strange symptoms before he even wore the sweater so I just don't know.

I thought it was different about the conclusion that the the infection was not systemic as it was not in his urine. In humans we always do blood cultures, I have seen many times where a pneumonia will cause bacteria in the blood - but the patient will not have bacteria in the urine. She said it was different in dogs, that blood cultures are hard to get so they come to different conclusions based on the urine.
Posted by: kelso

Re: Kelso is home - 12/17/11 12:36 AM

Originally Posted By: aubie
Aww...glad he's home and causing cone damage! Always a good sign! And Anna sayz: Don't worry Kel, chicks dig scarz. wink


lol! Bianca I loved the "patchwork" comment as well. I was thinking the same thing smile

Thanks for all the comments, will have to look into a snow suit but sure didn't have much luck with that dang sweater thinking

I sure hope he is feeling better for the snow! buriedinsnow
Posted by: kelso

Re: Kelso is home - 12/17/11 12:50 AM

Oh and we got rid of the cone after it split.

now he has one of those donut things you blow up around his neck...actually seems to like it ok and it doesn't cause the mass destruction the cone did lol!

If anyone has to have a dog in a cone for a long period of time I think the soft inflatable ones are great! They can see better as well
Posted by: kelso

Re: Kelso is home - 12/17/11 01:04 AM

Last update for now I promise....

The internist saw him yesterday and thought he looked good, wounds doing very well. Will be on clinda for a few weeks. She wants him tapered off the pred...staying at 40 mg for now. Thinks he needs to get off of it as she suspects alot of this is side effects from it and some dogs do not do as well as others on the drug, his quality of life ect...so he may have to be put on another immunosuppressant.

She said his immune system may be like this forever, he could have lupus- or something else. Platlets are now 95,000 and MCV 33%. Plan was to go home, continue meds and return in 3 weeks as of yesterday.

I still think that most likely it is a vaccine reaction, then he got an infection because he has been immune suppressed. Is it silly for me to think it is that simple? Maybe we should have started to taper the pred sooner (as labs were pretty much normal) and keep him on a prophylatic antibiotic the entire time.

So then I heard from the critical care vet tonight that his lymphocytes are 4-5 times normal on these labs from yesterday. They had been elevated in the past but improved. They are going to do a immunohistological stain on the cells to look for cancer. She said a bone marrow biopsy may be in his future.

So here we are 4 months later at the same place where we started. Dammit.
The main thing is he is improving, I am glad for that, as long as he is happy that is what is most important to me
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Kelso is home - 12/17/11 01:07 AM

Never can hear enough about kelso!

Interesting about the bug that they found. But if they are also saying vasculitis....that's just a buzzword for more doxy.

Sure wish they would follow the protocol of aggressive doxy, taper the pred, and go from there frown I'd hate to see him on something like cyclosporin without the protection of the antibiotics.
Posted by: kelso

Re: Kelso is home - 12/17/11 01:09 AM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
Never can hear enough about kelso!

Interesting about the bug that they found. But if they are also saying vasculitis....that's just a buzzword for more doxy.

Sure wish they would follow the protocol of aggressive doxy, taper the pred, and go from there frown I'd hate to see him on something like cyclosporin without the protection of the antibiotics.


I am going to push for the tapering/antibiotics before another drug. It just seems to make the most sense to me, don't you think?
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Kelso is home - 12/17/11 01:15 AM

Yes, you probably know what I would have done all along, even if I had to order Bird Biotic to get enough doxy in him. And I definitely would be doing that before they go looking for something else that might be wrong. But....that's just my opinion.

How is he feeling in general now? I hope that he is feeling better.
Posted by: kelso

Re: Kelso is home - 12/17/11 01:32 AM

I have asked about the doxy a couple of different times...the specialist and my reg vet. They think the two rounds should have been good if it was tick related. I know you had said in the past that vets can be resistant to the aggressive dose...

He is better. Chewing on his ball tonight, took a few laps around the house. He has not been normal since September so it is all relative at this point though.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Kelso is home - 12/17/11 01:36 AM

Originally Posted By: kelso
I have asked about the doxy a couple of different times...the specialist and my reg vet. They think the two rounds should have been good if it was tick related. I know you had said in the past that vets can be resistant to the aggressive dose...


And it's all a gamble, every single decision in this along the way is a huge gamble. The question is, which gamble are you willing to take, knowing that the stakes possibly include whether kelso lives or dies? I honestly don't know the answer, which is why I haven't been very forceful about this, it's a crapshoot. I do know what I would do here though. **Even the protocol that HollysMom followed included long term antibiotics.**


Quote:
He is better. Chewing on his ball tonight, took a few laps around the house. He has not been normal since September so it is all relative at this point though.


Well, he's not worse, and there's something to be said for that! And no more shivers.

He had the shivers before the crate incident, right?
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Kelso is home - 12/17/11 01:39 AM

Originally Posted By: kelso
..... They think the two rounds should have been good if it was tick related. .....


I wish people would THINK.

What happens to infection when you put an individual on high immuno suppressive doses of steroids, and give an antibiotic that does not kill? There is no way that infection is eliminated, if there was infection.
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Kelso is home - 12/17/11 01:56 AM

Originally Posted By: kelso
Last update for now I promise....

The internist saw him yesterday and thought he looked good, wounds doing very well. Will be on clinda for a few weeks. She wants him tapered off the pred...staying at 40 mg for now. Thinks he needs to get off of it as she suspects alot of this is side effects from it and some dogs do not do as well as others on the drug, his quality of life ect...so he may have to be put on another immunosuppressant.
She said his immune system may be like this forever, he could have lupus- or something else. Platlets are now 95,000 and MCV 33%. Plan was to go home, continue meds and return in 3 weeks as of yesterday.

I still think that most likely it is a vaccine reaction, then he got an infection because he has been immune suppressed. Is it silly for me to think it is that simple? Maybe we should have started to taper the pred sooner (as labs were pretty much normal) and keep him on a prophylatic antibiotic the entire time.

So then I heard from the critical care vet tonight that his lymphocytes are 4-5 times normal on these labs from yesterday. They had been elevated in the past but improved. They are going to do a immunohistological stain on the cells to look for cancer. She said a bone marrow biopsy may be in his future.

So here we are 4 months later at the same place where we started. Dammit.
The main thing is he is improving, I am glad for that, as long as he is happy that is what is most important to me
I agree with Lisa, we can never hear enough about your boy!!! I sure hope this isn't the last update for a while ... I enjoy hearing about Kelso and how he's doing!!!

I know I've told you this before, and I don't know what they'll be giving him in lieu of Pred, but after they diagnosed Ringer with Lupus, he was put on 80mg of Pred a day, slowly tapered down to 0, forget how long it took. He did well, had some side effects of course, but then a month or two after he finished the Pred he had a relapse, and they put him on a course of Imuran/Azathioprine ... he did much better on it ... no side effects at all. Again, I can't recall how long he was on it. And after that he never had another flare up.

Keeping you all in my thoughts and prayers and pleas give him a hug!!!
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Kelso is home - 12/17/11 02:02 AM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
Originally Posted By: kelso
..... They think the two rounds should have been good if it was tick related. .....


I wish people would THINK.

What happens to infection when you put an individual on high immuno suppressive doses of steroids, and give an antibiotic that does not kill? There is no way that infection is eliminated, if there was infection.
Lisa, gotta ask my dumb question of the day. What would happen if Steph continued the protocal the vets have given her and added Doxy in the mix on her own?
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Kelso is home - 12/17/11 02:15 AM

Originally Posted By: arycrest
Lisa, gotta ask my dumb question of the day. What would happen if Steph continued the protocal the vets have given her and added Doxy in the mix on her own?

That's what I would do, and then as he improved, slowly wean off the pred, and continue the doxy.
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Kelso is home - 12/17/11 02:40 AM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
Originally Posted By: arycrest
Lisa, gotta ask my dumb question of the day. What would happen if Steph continued the protocal the vets have given her and added Doxy in the mix on her own?

That's what I would do, and then as he improved, slowly wean off the pred, and continue the doxy.
And he could take it along with the clindamycin?
Posted by: kelso

Re: Kelso is home - 12/17/11 02:51 AM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
Originally Posted By: kelso
I have asked about the doxy a couple of different times...the specialist and my reg vet. They think the two rounds should have been good if it was tick related. I know you had said in the past that vets can be resistant to the aggressive dose...


And it's all a gamble, every single decision in this along the way is a huge gamble. The question is, which gamble are you willing to take, knowing that the stakes possibly include whether kelso lives or dies? I honestly don't know the answer, which is why I haven't been very forceful about this, it's a crapshoot. I do know what I would do here though. **Even the protocol that HollysMom followed included long term antibiotics.**


Quote:
He is better. Chewing on his ball tonight, took a few laps around the house. He has not been normal since September so it is all relative at this point though.


Well, he's not worse, and there's something to be said for that! And no more shivers.

He had the shivers before the crate incident, right?


I absolutely agree with the long term antibiotics. So glad that Hollysmom provided the help that she did with what her pup went through.

No more shivers. It was messed up though, it was the first time it was very cold out as well and he was running outside munching on ice as he is obsessed with water due to the pred...he actually stopped shivering after the sweater. The next day he busted out of his crate. For no reason, totally out of character...something had to have happened and who knows what to make him do that. You can't see it in the pics much but his muscle and fat loss has been devastating.

So he was better, no more shivers and off antibiotics for 2 days, got the wounds..then was sick but no shivers. So in hindsight was the shivering because of a fever or was it because he was cold?

No one can say for sure, that is impossible. He was acting a little bit different even before those events, but we have dissected his behavior so much in the past few months as the medication has brought changes in and of itself.

Kelso is my best friend, of course I am going to gamble in his favor and in the best way I can with the input of the 7 different vets he has now seen (3 at our reg vet, an internist, a critical care doc, a dermatologist and a surgeon) and the help and knowledge from you all here.

thanks again
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Kelso is home - 12/17/11 02:52 AM

Originally Posted By: arycrest
Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
Originally Posted By: arycrest
Lisa, gotta ask my dumb question of the day. What would happen if Steph continued the protocal the vets have given her and added Doxy in the mix on her own?

That's what I would do, and then as he improved, slowly wean off the pred, and continue the doxy.
And he could take it along with the clindamycin?


Doxy, clindamycin, and azithromycin are sometimes used to treat babesia. Even if not used in combination, as the clinda is winding down, the doxy could be started so that there is no period of time that he is left untreated.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Kelso is home - 12/17/11 02:56 AM

Originally Posted By: kelso
.....Kelso is my best friend, of course I am going to gamble in his favor and in the best way I can with the input of the 7 different vets he has now seen (3 at our reg vet, an internist, a critical care doc, a dermatologist and a surgeon) and the help and knowledge from you all here.....


And I didn't mean to imply that you weren't going above and beyond. This has been long, and drawn out, and difficult for all of you hugging

I just get frustrated with the vets, and I'm worried about what's going to happen when those antibiotics are stopped.
Posted by: kelso

Re: Kelso is home - 12/17/11 03:18 AM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
Originally Posted By: kelso
.....Kelso is my best friend, of course I am going to gamble in his favor and in the best way I can with the input of the 7 different vets he has now seen (3 at our reg vet, an internist, a critical care doc, a dermatologist and a surgeon) and the help and knowledge from you all here.....


And I didn't mean to imply that you weren't going above and beyond. This has been long, and drawn out, and difficult for all of you hugging

I just get frustrated with the vets, and I'm worried about what's going to happen when those antibiotics are stopped.


I know. I know you are looking out for Kelso. I would never think otherwise.

We will not stop the antibiotics until he is weaned off the pred

alot of what we were seeing in the two weeks up to this event my husband and I really believe was side effects of the pred, the weaning never really started since september. Prednisone did probably save his life in the beginning but he was sortof withering away before our eyes, he has no winter coat, no fat, no muscle. My wish is that we would have begun to taper despite the labs not being absolutely perfect (treat the dog not the labs) continued antibiotics and gone from there. Instead he had essentially been on 50-60 mg of pred a day for 4 months with intermittant periods of about a 2-3 weeks total in 4 months or so of no atbx. You warned of this.

We will fight as long and hard as we can for our dog, please trust me on that. I am a trusting person, maybe to much, but I do put faith in our vets and hope that is not a bad thing. Kelso and Allie are our family and our lives
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Kelso is home - 12/17/11 03:34 AM

Originally Posted By: kelso
....We will fight as long and hard as we can for our dog, please trust me on that. I am a trusting person, maybe to much, but I do put faith in our vets and hope that is not a bad thing. Kelso and Allie are our family and our lives


These are the situations that will shake your foundation a bit, well, possibly. And, maybe for you, it might even be more profound because of what you do.

To be blunt, on the tick list, we've seen a lot of pets near death because of vets, both primary vets and specialists. Max is a great example here too. Had someone believed me earlier, maybe they would have helped me get him on an aggressive regimen and saved us years of illness that will shorten his life.

This is not a time to trust. It's a time to think, and be determined in what makes sense.
Posted by: bianca

Re: Kelso is home - 12/17/11 03:57 AM

hugging I am so sorry, this must be so stressful and I wish I had some knowledge or wisdom to help. But please know Kelso is in my thoughts and prayers and I am so pleased that he is feeling better within himself hugging
Posted by: kelso

Re: Kelso is home - 12/17/11 04:11 AM

Originally Posted By: bianca
hugging I am so sorry, this must be so stressful and I wish I had some knowledge or wisdom to help. But please know Kelso is in my thoughts and prayers and I am so pleased that he is feeling better within himself hugging


Your thoughts, prayers and hugs are much appreciated. Thank You
Posted by: kaisersmom

Re: Kelso is home - 12/17/11 09:46 AM

Quote:
treat the dog not the labs


I love, love, love this statement - and as you know, it definitely applies to humans also!! I don't have any advice as far as Kelso's treatment, but I wish you all the best and always keep those words with you!! smile
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Kelso is home - 12/20/11 09:24 AM

Steph,

First as far as I'm concerned, your dedication to Kelso is what is keeping him alive. Your observations and action have taken him this far. I think that your vets need to be absolutely clear on exactly why they have recommended the mix of drugs without the addditions suggested. They have some rationale and it is their job to explain to you what it is-a life may be at stake. They should also go through a few possible scenarios for the future-if you observe X-what next versus Y-what next.

Like everyone, I look forward to updates about your boy (I was off for a few days). I hope so much for the best for all of you.

Mary Jane
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: Kelso is home - 12/20/11 09:37 AM

Steph,

I'm so sorry for all of of what's happening to Kelso. I was out of town since Thursday and havent' been keeping up. I can't even imagine how stressful this is for you and DH. I know how worried and frustrated you must be. hugging

I have a thinsulate jacket that was Chama's--I think it was probably a foal blanket. It would certainly fit Kelso. If you would like it for him I'd be glad to send it to you. Just send me a pm.

Lots of good thoughts, energy and strength going your way and, as always, healing thoughts and best wishes going to Kelso.
Posted by: Schnickle Fritz

Re: Kelso is home - 12/20/11 09:51 AM

my thoughts go out to you.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Kelso is home - 12/20/11 12:09 PM

Been thinking of kelso and you guys hugging
Posted by: Hollysmom

Re: Kelso is home - 12/20/11 05:33 PM

I know it is so hard, but please please do not drop the pred until his labs are stabalized for at least two weeks with no change. Then you can start slowly weaning the preds. It is very hard, my girl was on 100 mg of pred for at least 3 months, then went to 80 for two weeks, then 60 and so on until she was no longer on them. Each time I wanted to drop them faster,but my vet was adament about no weaning until no change in blood values for two weeks, especially after each drop.
The reasoning behind this is the pred is keeping the body's own immune system from killing itself and if the preds are dropped lower before the immune/blood system is stabalized, the dog can crash and crash very very fast.
I think of you and Kelso every day and say a prayer.
Posted by: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: Kelso is home - 12/20/11 07:27 PM

Steph, I have been a bit busy. But I wanted to check in on you and Kelso and see how things are going.
Posted by: SeanRescueMom

Re: Kelso is home - 12/20/11 08:04 PM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
Been thinking of kelso and you guys hugging


Ditto, hugs for both of you. hug paw
Posted by: Braverhund

Re: Kelso is home - 12/20/11 09:00 PM

Stopping in Steph with positive thoughts and vibes being sent to both you and dear Kelso. hugging
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: Kelso is home - 12/20/11 09:32 PM

Also thinking of you and Kelso. hugging
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Kelso is home - 12/21/11 12:34 AM

hugging hugging I'm hoping it's that old adage that NO NEWS IS GOOD NEWS!!! hugging hugging
Posted by: kelso

Re: Kelso is home - 12/21/11 01:05 AM

Hi guys

no news is good news, you are right Gayle!
I mean to come and update daily, but don't make it sometimes and feel bad coming here and yammering on about Kelso when I can't check out what is going on in everyone else's lives!

Ruth it means alot that you would offer Chama's jacket, thank you. I have a soft thing I can put on him (no sweaters!!), luckily we have had some unseasonably warm weather and he is outside about 10-15 min total all day right now! I want you to keep Chama's jacket for yourself! smile But thank you

The pred deal is hard, Hollysmom I always remembered what you said about not weaning to fast. But when we were talking with the vet she said sometimes after awhile it is not the right drug for the dog as the side effects outweigh the benefits so that would be when he would be put on a different drug to suppress his immune system, so something in place of the pred. Although I hope we will not have to go there.

And agree with what you mentioned regarding the vets and a clear plan, Mary Jane.

His wounds are healing very well, and has gotten very used to the "hydrotherapy" and I think it does help. No med changes or anything.

We are both off the week between Christmas and New Year's so look forward to lots of time with him! And Allie of course smile

Hope each and everyone of you have the happiest of holidays, thanks again. Best wishes that everyone ends 2011 on a happy and healthy note grouphug

Your thoughts, wishes, energy and prayers are priceless to us!
Posted by: bianca

Re: Kelso is home - 12/21/11 03:12 AM

Good news Steph and I bet both Kelso and Allie will cherish having you home smile
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Kelso is home - 12/21/11 04:32 PM

There are drugs other than pred that are used successfully, and that might be a very good option if needed. I expected, during a drop in meds, blood testing would be frequent.

I'm glad to hear the positive report. Not stellar, but slow progress, and that's still good too!

Please do update, even if you can't follow the rest of the forum!
Posted by: kelso

Merry Christmas from Kelso - 12/26/11 05:16 AM

Kelso wasn't feeling well enough in time for Christmas card photos this year but wanted to thank his friends on the forum and told me to let them know he is working hard healing up and enjoying his Christmas presents and the nice weather here!

Hope you all had a wonderful holiday christmastree

Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Merry Christmas from Kelso - 12/26/11 07:29 AM

Steph,

Thanks so much for Kelso's smiling face this morning. I'm sending lots of positive thoughts that you all have health and joy in the new year.

Mary Jane
Posted by: Qyn

Re: Merry Christmas from Kelso - 12/26/11 07:58 AM

Thanks for the photo Steph. I'm also looking forward to a better time for him next year.
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Merry Christmas from Kelso - 12/26/11 08:49 AM

christmastree It's wonderful getting to see Kelso's smiling face again ... seeing that photo reminds me that you & Dan got the greatest Christmas present of all this year!!! I'm so glad he's feeling better!!!
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: Merry Christmas from Kelso - 12/26/11 08:58 AM

Kelso, that is a great picture of you with your smiling face. So happy you are feeling better today. christmastree
Posted by: DancingCavy

Re: Merry Christmas from Kelso - 12/26/11 09:30 AM

He looks pretty happy! Hope you had a great Holiday, Kelso!
Posted by: kaisersmom

Re: Merry Christmas from Kelso - 12/26/11 11:31 AM

He looks so happy and like he doesn't have a care in the world - just glad to be home where he belongs! Kaiser says he hopes Kelso got a lot of neat things for Christmas! smile
Posted by: JeanKBBMMMAAN

Re: Merry Christmas from Kelso - 12/26/11 11:37 AM

He's glowing! Wow, so glad and continued best to all of you!
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Merry Christmas from Kelso - 12/26/11 12:44 PM

I love the Big Smile smile

Here's hoping for nothing but steady improvement cheers
Posted by: Karin

Re: Merry Christmas from Kelso - 12/26/11 02:12 PM

Awww.... Merry Christmas, Kelso, Steph, and the rest of the gang! Here's hoping that 2012 will be a happy and healthy year for all of you!

gsdbeggin christmastree
Posted by: Woodreb

Re: Merry Christmas from Kelso - 12/26/11 11:10 PM

Merry Christmas, Kelso - Glad to see you are feeling better. reindeerlights
Posted by: bianca

Re: Merry Christmas from Kelso - 12/27/11 04:04 AM

Merry Christmas Kelso! You have a great smile wub Adding my hopes to a fantastic, happy and healthy 2012 for you all smile
Posted by: GraciesMommy

Re: Merry Christmas from Kelso - 12/27/11 10:17 AM

Such a handsome guy, even with his donut!! Love the smile!
Posted by: Barb E

Re: Merry Christmas from Kelso - 12/27/11 10:42 AM

Love seeing Kelso smile!!
Posted by: TMarie

Re: Merry Christmas from Kelso - 12/27/11 04:33 PM

Just checking in, and it was so nice to see Kelso's handsome smile.

Many hugs and best wishes he continues to improve.
Posted by: kelso

Re: Merry Christmas from Kelso - 12/28/11 12:58 AM

Thank you all again so much for the comments and support.

Kelso loves smiling for photos, he is a strong and happy boy smile

I threw his ball for him today, just once. That is all he could do. Sweet Allie ran back real slow so he would make it back before her like he always used to wub

He has been so proud the rest of the day mashing on his chuckit ball, like he was saying "see I can do it!" So cute. He is laying beside me ride now mashing and mashing on that ball.

Looking forward to the new year thanks again a million times over.
Vet appt next week, still waiting on the results of the stains of his cells for cancer.

Just refilled the clinda and the pentoxifylline yesterday, pred last week. Hope for changes in meds (lower pred, diff antibiotic with less side effects now that wounds are healed and weaning of the pentoxi) next week.

For now, lots of fun time with the pups this week smile Small walks with Kelso and Allie has been enjoying running with me. It has been hard for her to settle into the role right now of the "stronger" dog. She is not used to that and is so sweet to Kelso, such a kind dog she is. She had her harness on today and was quite pleased, as she was like "see Kelso I have something on too!!" She has not bugged his cones, donuts, wounds ect at all. When he gets his meds (4 times a day) she sits next to him and watches and then takes her treat! smile

I feel thankful everyday with these two. It just doen't get any better with them around and on vacation to boot. reindeerlights

Hope you all have wonderful holidays with your pups! Off to look at threads!
Posted by: Qyn

Re: Merry Christmas from Kelso - 12/28/11 05:57 AM

Thanks for the update, Steph. Good to read Allie news too!
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Merry Christmas from Kelso - 12/28/11 09:08 AM

happyboogie I love it when we get such an upbeat report, especially when the dog's been as sick as Kelso. Hope to keep hearing continued reports about how much better he's feeling!!!
Posted by: Woodreb

Re: Merry Christmas from Kelso - 12/28/11 11:26 AM

Yes, good to hear that Kelso is better. Even if the improvement is slow, it's in the right direction.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Merry Christmas from Kelso - 12/28/11 01:48 PM

So slow, it must be hard, but so much better than the alternative. Such a trooper he is, and Allie just sounds wonderful.

Sure do hope that next week brings some good news crossedfingers thanks for keeping us updated, continued good thoughts!
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: Merry Christmas from Kelso - 12/28/11 03:01 PM

Go Kelso! So glad to hear that he's on the mend. And what a sweetheart that Allie is, supporting her big brother. wub

I hope you enjoy your vacation!
Posted by: RileyAnna

Re: Merry Christmas from Kelso - 12/29/11 01:40 PM

Steph, I don't know how I missed 47 pages of what you and Kelso have been through. I am so glad it looks like he is rallying through all of this. Hugs to you and Kelso. He is such a handsome boy!! I'll keep checking on the two of you. Sending prayers and positive thoughts for both of you.
Posted by: JeanKBBMMMAAN

Re: Merry Christmas from Kelso - 12/30/11 10:34 PM

http://germanshepherdhome.net/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/202939#Post202939
Riley is having a hard time. frown
Posted by: kelso

Re: Merry Christmas from Kelso - 01/01/12 05:27 AM

Originally Posted By: JeanKBBMMMAAN


Praying, hoping, wishing for Riley right now. Hope everything is ok hug
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Merry Christmas from Kelso - 01/01/12 04:49 PM

Looks good so far for Riley....

When does kelso get rechecked? Sometime this week, right? And some test results too crossedfingers
Posted by: kelso

Re: Merry Christmas from Kelso - 01/02/12 11:42 PM

Glad Riley is doing ok!

Yep, appt this week, probably wed-thursday, need to call. Do not have the results of the stain yet, I called last week but it may have gotten lost in the shuffle of the holidays, so hoping it was negative. Going to ask about that when I call to make the appt.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Merry Christmas from Kelso - 01/03/12 07:43 PM

I am hoping for some good news here! I don't want stable, I want clear improvement, curious what the clinda might have done to those counts!

I sure am hoping that the stain was negative crossedfingers
Posted by: RileyAnna

Re: Merry Christmas from Kelso - 01/05/12 09:33 AM

Looking forward to hearing something positive for Kelso.
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Merry Christmas from Kelso - 01/05/12 01:22 PM

Originally Posted By: RileyAnna
Looking forward to hearing something positive for Kelso.
Me too!
Posted by: kelso

Re: Merry Christmas from Kelso - 01/05/12 11:11 PM

appt is tomorrow at 330pm smile
Hoping for good news as well. He is doing pretty well, running around the house a bit thumbup
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Merry Christmas from Kelso - 01/06/12 04:06 PM

crossedfingers
Posted by: kelso

Leukemia/Lymphoma? - 01/06/12 09:34 PM

Did not get the news we expected today at the vet. teary

The cell stain came back positive for "acute leukemia, poor prognosis" with a secondary report showing lymphoma.

The vet is not sure what to make of this at this point. Is it leukemia or lymphoma? Is it either? Or how accurate is this flow cytometry at really diagnosing this. The test was just supposed to be a "rule out" as he had high lymphs while sick. Now it has just created confusion. She has contacted the university that performed the test and an oncologist. Should hear more monday. So we have no diagnosis. What I have read about lymphoma and leukemia it would seem he would be dead right now if he had had this for 5 months untreated?

Not sure what to make of it, actually I can't even process this right now. frown

Kelso is doing ok, tired tonight after his vet visit. Hind end still weak, he can't get into the car alone.

Your thoughts and prayers are appreciated
Posted by: Kris

Re: Leukemia/Lymphoma? - 01/06/12 09:57 PM

Oh Steph, I'm sorry... I don't know much about this kind of thing, but know that good healing thoughts and prayers are being sent to you all... hugging
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Leukemia/Lymphoma? - 01/06/12 10:02 PM

I am sorry that the murky waters are still murky.

All I know, is that we have had some dogs on the list that were diagnosed with lymphoma and treated aggressively for tick disease that made a full recovery. I have no idea how common or rare that is though.

hugging
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: Leukemia/Lymphoma? - 01/06/12 10:04 PM

hugging I'm so sorry. It's going to be a long weekend waiting for an update.

I hope after consulting the oncologist the diagnosis is more clear.

Meantime, try to breathe and take some time for you and to enjoy Kelso. You both need some quiet time with less stress.
Posted by: Cassidy's Mom

Re: Leukemia/Lymphoma? - 01/06/12 10:07 PM

Oh, crap. So sorry....
Posted by: Woodreb

Re: Leukemia/Lymphoma? - 01/06/12 10:48 PM

Good thoughts and prayers for Kelso being sent from CT. Hope you can get some more information on Monday.
Posted by: bianca

Re: Leukemia/Lymphoma? - 01/07/12 02:15 AM

Adding my positive thoughts and prayers for you and Kelso hugging
Posted by: kelso

Re: Leukemia/Lymphoma? - 01/07/12 02:58 AM

thank you guys

This sucks, really bad.

Lisa- I hear you and am listening although you probably want to slap me silly! He has been treated with 60 days of doxy at 400 mg a day..the aggressive dose would be (5mg/lb) about 700 mg a day for? He has now been on clindamycin for 3 weeks as well.

I keep everything you say in mind, everytime I think it might be that we just need this increased doxy and then something else pops up...life threatening skin infections, positive cancer testing ect and I talk with 3 different vets and all the recs ect. Vasculitis/necrotizing fasc/itp/imha/cancer/infection/ and so on, I can talk with them again about the doxy for the 4th time, I will do that, as you have said it could be life or death.

The one thing I do know 100% is that Kelso is the stongest dog I have ever met. He tries everyday to be better, it is hard to explain but you can see it all over his face although everyone knows something is going on inside of him. His quality of life right now is most affected by his muscle wasting. He can no longer run after a ball and cannot get into the car on his own, his two favorite things to do (chase the ball and go on car rides). My mom played ball with him inside on New Year's Eve and he loved that, he loves her so much and the feeling is mutual smile After two laps up and down the street he is done, but he does enjoy the fresh air and walks. Otherwise his mentation is very clear and he acts very much like himself except that he is frustrated at times that he can't chase his ball ect. His weight is stable.

And on a lighter note, a pic from a good day, Jan2nd. We had great holidays! I hate having my pic taken but when my husband figures out how to use the camera it is nice to get some pics with the dogs

Me and my boy wub Love him so much and will not and cannot come to terms right now that he will not get better. Trying to stay positive

Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Leukemia/Lymphoma? - 01/07/12 04:23 AM

Here is what I believe.

I believe that blood infections can lead to blood and lymph cancers. I believe this can be one reason for a higher incidence of hemangiosarcoma and lymphosarcoma in GSDs, because they are more susceptible to infections. There are a ton more infections out there than tick diseases, and there are a ton of tick diseases that I'm sure we haven't discovered yet. (I have been accused on the tick list of looking in dark places for things that may or may not be there, but when it comes to saving a life, I go where the logic and probabilities take me!)

I have read the studies that show that doxy has a wide range of surprising actions, from infection, to cancer to autoimmune and/or inflammatory disease. It covers so many different bases.

It's very possible that those dogs on the tick list had lymphoma. It's also very possible that it was caused by a tick disease or some other doxy-susceptible bug, and the doxy helped treat both the underlying infection and the cancer. Or that treating the underlying infection allows the body to fight the cancer, I dunno.

Vets have a saying. No dog should die without the benefits of steroids. I say, no dog should die without the benefits of doxy, particularly in situations where there are many very good reasons for trying it. At some point though, it's too late, and waiting for these vets and specialists to dink around, saddens and frustrates me. Life is precious, and it's very very fragile.

Kelso was on the conservative dose, the aggressive dose would be double that. (Before I had a permanent script for Max, I used the Bird Biotic from here: http://www.lambertvetsupply.com/Bird_Bio...ion-P39052.aspx but amazon and all sorts of places have it.

My heart breaks for you guys.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1800954/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/17337646/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/3180079/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/3874329/

http://www.bonecancerdogs.org/main/document/111 (Lymphoma just mentioned here)


It has shown some promise in certain types of eye lymphomas, currently being studied:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/10/061003191625.htm

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/19373893/

http://www.lymphomation.org/type-malt.htm

http://www.lymphomation.org/type-extranodal.htm (see #5, or search for doxycycline)

http://de-de.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=174680658363&comments&ref=mf (this study didn't show what they were looking for, but without looking at the studey (conducted by UC Davis), hard to comment on it

Posted by: arycrest

Re: Leukemia/Lymphoma? - 01/07/12 05:35 AM



hugging hugging hugging hugging Steph & Kelso hugging hugging hugging hugging
I'm so sorry, wish I could say or do something to help, but know you and Dan are doing everything humanly possible for your boy! Keeping you and Kelso in my prayers!
Posted by: Qyn

Re: Leukemia/Lymphoma? - 01/07/12 07:57 AM

That is a great photo Steph, Kelso looks mighty fine for dog who is not 100% - hurry up Dan and figure out the damn camera ... ya know we love photos!

I've got my fist down the fat ladies throat so no singing is expected in the near future so that base is covered.

hugging Best wishes beaming your way from downunder. Here's one for Kelso for when he is ready. fetch
Posted by: kaisersmom

Re: Leukemia/Lymphoma? - 01/07/12 10:20 AM

No words of wisdom from me - just hoping for the best for Kelso. I went back to the beginning and re-read a lot of this thread. It is just so darn sickening to think this all may have resulted from his booster vaccines. Not blaming anyone - but just sickening.

Here's hoping for many good days ahead for Kelso and his family! hugging And you both look great in the photo!!

Posted by: RileyAnna

Re: Leukemia/Lymphoma? - 01/07/12 12:02 PM

Oh Steph, I wish there was something I could say to make it better. I really know how you feel as I am dealing with a very similar situation. Beautiful photo of the two of you together. Take lots of photos. I even took a video of Riley the other day of just his eyes blinking. I just love it. You and Kelso are in my prayers.
Posted by: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: Leukemia/Lymphoma? - 01/07/12 12:37 PM

Steph, sending you my best wishes for you and your boy Kelso.
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Leukemia/Lymphoma? - 01/07/12 09:07 PM

Lisa is right, of course, about the origins of malignancies in the immune system. I mean GALT lymphoma is treated with antibiotics for the bacteria in the gut that induce the immune response that make way for the cancer....."that live in the house that Jack built".

Whatever is impairing Kelso's health-he is fighting hard and you are fighting. Put differently-you are doing everything you can and your big gorgeous boy is not anxious to leave you.

Please take some comfort in that.

Many best wishes to you both,
Mary Jane
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Leukemia/Lymphoma? - 01/08/12 12:17 AM

Originally Posted By: Mary Jane
Whatever is impairing Kelso's health-he is fighting hard and you are fighting. ...


hugging


More about pred use in lymphosarcoma:

Prednisone and prednisolone are central players in cancer chemotherapy protocols, most commonly for lymphosarcoma. And the good news is that they really make a difference in both life quality and life span. Oncologists are achieving median survival times of 10-14 months using these chemo protocols. This is most definitely worth considering.
http://www.dogcancerblog.com/prednisone-for-dog-cancer-2/
Posted by: bianca

Re: Leukemia/Lymphoma? - 01/08/12 04:30 AM

Hoping today was a good day for you both, that is a lovely photo wub hugging
Posted by: RileyAnna

Re: Leukemia/Lymphoma? - 01/08/12 10:05 AM

Thinking of both of you.
Posted by: Braverhund

Re: Leukemia/Lymphoma? - 01/08/12 10:42 AM

Sending lots of these your way: hugging hugging hugging
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: Leukemia/Lymphoma? - 01/08/12 11:51 AM

Oh...just saw this. I agree that whatever is wrong with Kelso he is fighting it. Sending you all my best. hugging
Posted by: JeanKBBMMMAAN

Re: Leukemia/Lymphoma? - 01/09/12 12:28 AM

So tomorrow you will know more? hugging

This is...like Diane in the chat thread...second opinions and more information can sometimes shed light on things that make it better. I hope for you both that the information you get does that.

I know with both Nina and Kramer pred was used and called poor man's chemo by my vet. With Nina @ Cornell they said once we started the pred, we couldn't go back for chemo - which was a moot point - because her disease was so advanced and...weird. I am not sure if that was their rule or if there is a reason for that.

You wonder with all the weird blood values and things with him if there is ever false positives in these types of tests/results. Because he has had so many meds, so many issues, that it would seem difficult to get accurate information. Was this a blood culture?

Just keeping you guys in my thoughts and XOXO from all of Jeanspackistan.
Posted by: bianca

Re: Leukemia/Lymphoma? - 01/09/12 04:31 AM

hugging Thinking of you both Steph.
Posted by: kelso

Re: Leukemia/Lymphoma? - 01/09/12 06:14 PM

thanks everyone

Nothing new today, just called and the specialist will not be in until tomorrow

Kelso had a good weekend

Jean- the cell studies were done off of labs from when he was very ill with the infection, so I do wonder about false positives. The vet is supposed to be asking the oncologist about this as well. My husband and I decided that we would see what she said, but would ultimately probably want the test ran again if they are telling us it is cancer

It was not a blood culture, it was "flow cytometry" and stains of the cells from what I understand?

appreciate everyone for their wonderful comments and support!
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Leukemia/Lymphoma? - 01/09/12 06:31 PM

Originally Posted By: kelso
...
Kelso had a good weekend
...
thumbup That's fantastic news!!!

Can't wait till you can talk to your vet tomorrow, continuing keeping you all in my prayers!!!
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Leukemia/Lymphoma? - 01/09/12 07:08 PM

Hoping for more good days smile
Posted by: RileyAnna

Re: Leukemia/Lymphoma? - 01/09/12 08:50 PM

Steph and Kelso keeping you both close to my heart along with my Riley!
Posted by: JeanKBBMMMAAN

Re: Leukemia/Lymphoma? - 01/09/12 09:44 PM

Good plan, good weekend and so much love in that home!
Posted by: kaisersmom

Re: Leukemia/Lymphoma? - 01/09/12 10:50 PM

Glad to hear you had a good weekend!! I would definitely question the diagnosis especially if the test was done at the height of infection. That sure seems like it could create a false positive if there ever was one and I whole heartedly agree with running the test again if they try to push the cancer diagnosis! Hoping for good news tomorrow! hugging
Posted by: TMarie

Re: Leukemia/Lymphoma? - 01/10/12 03:06 PM

I have no advice, but wanted you to know I am keeping you both close in my thoughts and only hoping for good days.
Posted by: Barb E

Re: Leukemia/Lymphoma? - 01/11/12 11:17 AM

Originally Posted By: TMarie
I have no advice, but wanted you to know I am keeping you both close in my thoughts and only hoping for good days.


This
Posted by: Hollysmom

Re: Leukemia/Lymphoma? - 01/11/12 12:17 PM

Oh man, just catching up. My heart goes out to you and Kelso and your hubby.
Please keep fighting Kelso, you are such a strong one.

Hugs and prayers
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Leukemia/Lymphoma? - 01/11/12 01:33 PM

Originally Posted By: TMarie
I have no advice, but wanted you to know I am keeping you both close in my thoughts and only hoping for good days.
I agree with this, couldn't say it any better!!!

Have you gotten to talk to Kelso's specialist yet? If so hope it's good news!!
Posted by: kelso

Re: Leukemia/Lymphoma? - 01/11/12 11:53 PM

Originally Posted By: arycrest
Originally Posted By: TMarie
I have no advice, but wanted you to know I am keeping you both close in my thoughts and only hoping for good days.
I agree with this, couldn't say it any better!!!

Have you gotten to talk to Kelso's specialist yet? If so hope it's good news!!


yeah, yesterday...

The internist talked to two oncologist's, both say they use the test he had done with a bone marrow biopsy to diagnose cancer, but do not usually use it alone as it does have false positives and false negatives.

So she is recommending a bone marrow biopsy

Kelso is doing pretty well though, seems more active so that is good
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Leukemia/Lymphoma? - 01/12/12 12:20 AM

Originally Posted By: kelso
Originally Posted By: arycrest
Originally Posted By: TMarie
I have no advice, but wanted you to know I am keeping you both close in my thoughts and only hoping for good days.
I agree with this, couldn't say it any better!!!

Have you gotten to talk to Kelso's specialist yet? If so hope it's good news!!


yeah, yesterday...

The internist talked to two oncologist's, both say they use the test he had done with a bone marrow biopsy to diagnose cancer, but do not usually use it alone as it does have false positives and false negatives.

So she is recommending a bone marrow biopsy

Kelso is doing pretty well though, seems more active so that is good
hugging hugging hugging glad to hear Kelso's feeling better! Will be keeping you in my prayers and hope biopsy will be negative! hugging hugging hugging
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Leukemia/Lymphoma? - 01/12/12 01:12 AM

Ear scritches to kelso...
Posted by: kaisersmom

Re: Leukemia/Lymphoma? - 01/12/12 09:03 AM

Quote:
Kelso is doing pretty well though, seems more active so that is good


Do they think the bone marrow biopsy needs to be done right now? Since Kelso seems more active and is doing pretty well, would it hurt to wait a month or two and repeat the bloodwork rather than putting him through a bone marrow biopsy right away? Obviously I know you want a diagnosis and time to weigh the options if it is lymphoma or leukemia, but since he's doing better, I would be inclined to wait a little while for things to settle down a bit more and repeat the bloodwork and cytology before going ahead with a bone biopsy - but that's just me.

Fingers and paws crossed and good thoughts going out to you & Kelso! hugging
Posted by: DaisyShadow

Re: Leukemia/Lymphoma? - 01/12/12 10:06 PM

Stopping by for and update and to give hugs. hugging

Hope he is handling this weather ok, it got so cold. Thinking of you.
Posted by: kelso

Re: Leukemia/Lymphoma? - 01/12/12 11:08 PM

Originally Posted By: kaisersmom
Quote:
Kelso is doing pretty well though, seems more active so that is good


Do they think the bone marrow biopsy needs to be done right now? Since Kelso seems more active and is doing pretty well, would it hurt to wait a month or two and repeat the bloodwork rather than putting him through a bone marrow biopsy right away? Obviously I know you want a diagnosis and time to weigh the options if it is lymphoma or leukemia, but since he's doing better, I would be inclined to wait a little while for things to settle down a bit more and repeat the bloodwork and cytology before going ahead with a bone biopsy - but that's just me.

Fingers and paws crossed and good thoughts going out to you & Kelso! hugging


I tend to agree. That is why we have not called her back yet as we have been thinking about it ALOT. We actually decreased the pred last week after the vet visit and he really is doing good this week. Want to wait until he is stronger, but then again I do not want to be in "crisis mode" again when this might pop up (fever, low platlets ect) as that would again be a terrible time to do it.

We probably will not just repeat the cytology alone...as it is inconclusive alone...yet another gamble: if it comes back negative great than no biopsy probably, but if it is positive again we are in the same spot. It would be great if the cytology was really cheap or something...but it is $300 for the cytology alone! So part of me thinks why not just get the biopsy over with, it has been recommended three times now (first after the first crisis by the general vet, then the second time by the ER vet and now the specialist)

I just don't know... Wait until he is stronger or risk that he is going to get worse before better and then we don't have all the info we need.......

I am just pleased as punch that he his sitting behind me chewing on his bone like the good ole' days smile
Posted by: kelso

Re: Leukemia/Lymphoma? - 01/12/12 11:10 PM

Originally Posted By: DaisyShadow
Stopping by for and update and to give hugs. hugging

Hope he is handling this weather ok, it got so cold. Thinking of you.


He is handling the cold really good...and he has less fur than he did when it was cold a month ago! (a month ago he could not handle the cold at all) So that is a good sign to me, just hoping for more good signs as the days go by smile
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: Leukemia/Lymphoma? - 01/12/12 11:14 PM

Quote:
I am just pleased as punch that he his sitting behind me chewing on his bone like the good ole' days


Yes - cause for celebration. hugging
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: Leukemia/Lymphoma? - 01/13/12 12:19 AM

I'm glad to hear that Kelso is again enjoying some of her favorite things, however modified. He is a very strong dog and is incredibly devoted to all of you. wub

One day at a time seems like a really good plan to me. hugging
Posted by: Braverhund

Re: Leukemia/Lymphoma? - 01/13/12 12:58 AM

Chewing on his bone wubbehind you sounds like contentment to me-- for both of you! hugging
Posted by: bianca

Re: Leukemia/Lymphoma? - 01/13/12 04:58 AM

hugging
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Leukemia/Lymphoma? - 01/13/12 07:51 AM

Originally Posted By: kelso
Originally Posted By: kaisersmom
Quote:
Kelso is doing pretty well though, seems more active so that is good


Do they think the bone marrow biopsy needs to be done right now? Since Kelso seems more active and is doing pretty well, would it hurt to wait a month or two and repeat the bloodwork rather than putting him through a bone marrow biopsy right away? Obviously I know you want a diagnosis and time to weigh the options if it is lymphoma or leukemia, but since he's doing better, I would be inclined to wait a little while for things to settle down a bit more and repeat the bloodwork and cytology before going ahead with a bone biopsy - but that's just me.

Fingers and paws crossed and good thoughts going out to you & Kelso! hugging


I tend to agree. That is why we have not called her back yet as we have been thinking about it ALOT. We actually decreased the pred last week after the vet visit and he really is doing good this week. Want to wait until he is stronger, but then again I do not want to be in "crisis mode" again when this might pop up (fever, low platlets ect) as that would again be a terrible time to do it.

We probably will not just repeat the cytology alone...as it is inconclusive alone...yet another gamble: if it comes back negative great than no biopsy probably, but if it is positive again we are in the same spot. It would be great if the cytology was really cheap or something...but it is $300 for the cytology alone! So part of me thinks why not just get the biopsy over with, it has been recommended three times now (first after the first crisis by the general vet, then the second time by the ER vet and now the specialist)

I just don't know... Wait until he is stronger or risk that he is going to get worse before better and then we don't have all the info we need.......

I am just pleased as punch that he his sitting behind me chewing on his bone like the good ole' days smile
hugging hugging hugging WOW, GREAT NEWS ABOUT THE DECREASE IN PRED!!!

What a difficult decision to have to make about the bone biopsy. I know you and Dan will continue to make the right decisions for Kelso (whatever they may be), it's really a tough call.

I have a question, if you didn't repeat the cytology, would the bone marrow biopsy give you a conclusive answer, or does it take both tests for an absolute diagnosis?

Just curious, I'm only familiar with the bone punch they use for testing for osteosarcoma ... it's a hit or miss procedure. What does the bone marrow biopsy entail ... multiple sites? one site? Will they have to put him under?

GOOD LUCK IN WHATEVER YOU DO!!!
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Leukemia/Lymphoma? - 01/13/12 08:09 AM

I learned the term watchful waiting when David was first diagnosed with an aortic aneurysm. I like the whole concept.

Lifting the prednisone lets Kelso's physiology work things out a bit (not very clear, but you know what I mean). So if you see changes, good or bad, in energy or movement or mood, you can go on with the labs. I take your point.

Let's repeat Gayle: good luck in whatever you do!!!

MJ
Posted by: kaisersmom

Re: Leukemia/Lymphoma? - 01/13/12 09:27 AM

I wish you all the best in whatever you decide. I know it's an incredibly difficult decision.

The problem I have is that some doctors and vets sometimes seem to have tunnel vision. Instead of looking at the whole situation and circumstances surrounding it, they zero in on one thing and try to treat it instead of taking everything into consideration - probably the nature of the beast where specialists are concerned - they focus on their specialty.

This is just my opinion and I'm not arguing with whatever you decide at all - but since Kelso showed absolutely no signs of leukemia or lymphoma prior to the vaccines (at least as far as I know), and then became quite ill with the hemolytic anemia, concurrent infections, etc., I would think the likelihood of this actually being lymphoma or leukemia are pretty slim. Also, I'm not sure how all of his recent illness would affect his bone marrow, but if it does affect that also, how accurate would a bone marrow biopsy be right now? I would think all that he's been through would do something to the bone marrow and it might also need time to recover.

I'll try to give you a similar example. When my mom had her total colectomy 3 yrs ago, spent a few weeks in surgical intensive care and 3 months in rehab, she was on tube feeds and IV feedings for quite some time - which from what I remembered from med schoo, are known to raise blood sugar levels. Well, one of her "specialists" saw the elevated blood sugar and diagnosed her with diabetes and started her on metformin and another drug that I can't remember. I asked the doc about the relationship of elevated blood sugar and the tube/IV feedings, and he basically said that was unlikely and that she had developed diabetes. Fast forward a few months - guess what.... no diabetes - they have no idea of what caused the elevated blood sugar a few months earlier, but she no longer had it. Oh....ok...couldn't be the tube and IV feedings, could it?! Once her body had time to recover from the stress of surgery, tube feeds, abdominal wall infection, etc., her levels also went back to normal.

I really do wish you all the best in whatever you decide!! hugging
Posted by: kaisersmom

Re: Leukemia/Lymphoma? - 01/13/12 09:39 AM

Quote:
what I remembered from med schoo


Sorry, that should've been "school"!! blush
Posted by: RileyAnna

Re: Leukemia/Lymphoma? - 01/13/12 07:58 PM

Again, wishing you the best. I did the bone marrow. He did not have cancer of the bone so it said. I am sure that both you and I are hanging on the edge each day and it is not a very comfortable place to be. However, I bet that Kelso and Riley are really strong dogs and we all are going to get through all of this. Paws crossed for you and Kelso.

Many positive prayers for each of you each day.

Best from Sally and Riley and the pack.
Posted by: kelso

Re: Leukemia/Lymphoma? - 01/15/12 01:06 AM

Originally Posted By: arycrest
Originally Posted By: kelso
Originally Posted By: kaisersmom
Quote:
Kelso is doing pretty well though, seems more active so that is good


Do they think the bone marrow biopsy needs to be done right now? Since Kelso seems more active and is doing pretty well, would it hurt to wait a month or two and repeat the bloodwork rather than putting him through a bone marrow biopsy right away? Obviously I know you want a diagnosis and time to weigh the options if it is lymphoma or leukemia, but since he's doing better, I would be inclined to wait a little while for things to settle down a bit more and repeat the bloodwork and cytology before going ahead with a bone biopsy - but that's just me.

Fingers and paws crossed and good thoughts going out to you & Kelso! hugging


I tend to agree. That is why we have not called her back yet as we have been thinking about it ALOT. We actually decreased the pred last week after the vet visit and he really is doing good this week. Want to wait until he is stronger, but then again I do not want to be in "crisis mode" again when this might pop up (fever, low platlets ect) as that would again be a terrible time to do it.

We probably will not just repeat the cytology alone...as it is inconclusive alone...yet another gamble: if it comes back negative great than no biopsy probably, but if it is positive again we are in the same spot. It would be great if the cytology was really cheap or something...but it is $300 for the cytology alone! So part of me thinks why not just get the biopsy over with, it has been recommended three times now (first after the first crisis by the general vet, then the second time by the ER vet and now the specialist)

I just don't know... Wait until he is stronger or risk that he is going to get worse before better and then we don't have all the info we need.......

I am just pleased as punch that he his sitting behind me chewing on his bone like the good ole' days smile
hugging hugging hugging WOW, GREAT NEWS ABOUT THE DECREASE IN PRED!!!

What a difficult decision to have to make about the bone biopsy. I know you and Dan will continue to make the right decisions for Kelso (whatever they may be), it's really a tough call.

I have a question, if you didn't repeat the cytology, would the bone marrow biopsy give you a conclusive answer, or does it take both tests for an absolute diagnosis?

Just curious, I'm only familiar with the bone punch they use for testing for osteosarcoma ... it's a hit or miss procedure. What does the bone marrow biopsy entail ... multiple sites? one site? Will they have to put him under?

GOOD LUCK IN WHATEVER YOU DO!!!


It is supposed to be more conslusive than the cell testing they did, but as mentioned I am sure the pred could mess up the results.

I think it is one site, and yes they would have to put him under. The internist that we have been seeing would be the one that would do it

thank you all again
Posted by: kelso

Re: Leukemia/Lymphoma? - 01/15/12 01:08 AM

Originally Posted By: Mary Jane
I learned the term watchful waiting when David was first diagnosed with an aortic aneurysm. I like the whole concept.

Lifting the prednisone lets Kelso's physiology work things out a bit (not very clear, but you know what I mean). So if you see changes, good or bad, in energy or movement or mood, you can go on with the labs. I take your point.

Let's repeat Gayle: good luck in whatever you do!!!

MJ


agree, He does seem to be doing quite well with the pred dose decrease (fingers crossed) One would think he would be doing worse if it was cancer as stated before the pred could help cancer

And Ruth... your post made me teary!

Thank you everyone for the wishes
Posted by: kelso

Re: Leukemia/Lymphoma? - 01/15/12 01:15 AM

Originally Posted By: kaisersmom
I wish you all the best in whatever you decide. I know it's an incredibly difficult decision.

The problem I have is that some doctors and vets sometimes seem to have tunnel vision. Instead of looking at the whole situation and circumstances surrounding it, they zero in on one thing and try to treat it instead of taking everything into consideration - probably the nature of the beast where specialists are concerned - they focus on their specialty.

This is just my opinion and I'm not arguing with whatever you decide at all - but since Kelso showed absolutely no signs of leukemia or lymphoma prior to the vaccines (at least as far as I know), and then became quite ill with the hemolytic anemia, concurrent infections, etc., I would think the likelihood of this actually being lymphoma or leukemia are pretty slim. Also, I'm not sure how all of his recent illness would affect his bone marrow, but if it does affect that also, how accurate would a bone marrow biopsy be right now? I would think all that he's been through would do something to the bone marrow and it might also need time to recover.

I'll try to give you a similar example. When my mom had her total colectomy 3 yrs ago, spent a few weeks in surgical intensive care and 3 months in rehab, she was on tube feeds and IV feedings for quite some time - which from what I remembered from med schoo, are known to raise blood sugar levels. Well, one of her "specialists" saw the elevated blood sugar and diagnosed her with diabetes and started her on metformin and another drug that I can't remember. I asked the doc about the relationship of elevated blood sugar and the tube/IV feedings, and he basically said that was unlikely and that she had developed diabetes. Fast forward a few months - guess what.... no diabetes - they have no idea of what caused the elevated blood sugar a few months earlier, but she no longer had it. Oh....ok...couldn't be the tube and IV feedings, could it?! Once her body had time to recover from the stress of surgery, tube feeds, abdominal wall infection, etc., her levels also went back to normal.

I really do wish you all the best in whatever you decide!! hugging


agree with everything you are saying

thank you for sharing about your mom, I have seen quite a bit of that thing myself (tunnel vision) so am trying very hard to not do that.

the only theory with the vaccine and cancer, is that he did not have symptoms (we don't think..although he had slowed down just a tad but also just turned 5) and that the vaccine could have revealed it (it was there but no symptoms then the vaccine was the final insult to the immune system???) Again, just one of the theories
I don't know

Kelso is doing good, playing with his ball right now. His bladder control has improved alot with the decrease in pred (he is able to tell us when he has to go again) and he is starting to look bigger than his little sister again as well ..hehe

Hope you all are having a good weekend. Your posts are always something I look forward to reading here
Posted by: kelso

Re: Leukemia/Lymphoma? - 01/15/12 01:16 AM

Originally Posted By: RileyAnna
Again, wishing you the best. I did the bone marrow. He did not have cancer of the bone so it said. I am sure that both you and I are hanging on the edge each day and it is not a very comfortable place to be. However, I bet that Kelso and Riley are really strong dogs and we all are going to get through all of this. Paws crossed for you and Kelso.

Many positive prayers for each of you each day.

Best from Sally and Riley and the pack.


I did not know you had done the bone marrow biopsy? What did that entail? Glad the results were good!

Best wishes, thoughts and prayers for you and Riley as well, thank you! hugging
Posted by: kelso

Re: Leukemia/Lymphoma? - 01/15/12 03:33 AM

Originally Posted By: Qyn
That is a great photo Steph, Kelso looks mighty fine for dog who is not 100% - hurry up Dan and figure out the damn camera ... ya know we love photos!

I've got my fist down the fat ladies throat so no singing is expected in the near future so that base is covered.

hugging Best wishes beaming your way from downunder. Here's one for Kelso for when he is ready. fetch


LOVE that you have your fist down the fat ladies throat! smile

And Kelso says thanks for the ball toss...he can catch it in his mouth, just not chase it quite yet, he is working on it! hugging
Posted by: kelso

Re: Leukemia/Lymphoma? - 01/15/12 03:58 AM

Originally Posted By: Mary Jane

Whatever is impairing Kelso's health-he is fighting hard and you are fighting. Put differently-you are doing everything you can and your big gorgeous boy is not anxious to leave you.

Please take some comfort in that.

Many best wishes to you both,
Mary Jane


I am catching up on alot of posts tonight, and really want to thank each and everyone for the thoughtful posts, it means alot

This is beautiful Mary Jane, he is fighting and hope everyday that we are doing him justice. We do try to take comfort in the fact he is doing well/trying so hard, and then at the same time "somethin just aint right"

but the med decreases have seemed to help so far, we have been fortunate with a mild winter for our bare bellied boy smile our patchwork quilt smile that's what I call him

I emailed Dr. Dodds again tonight to see what her thoughts may be with the vaccine ect ect
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Leukemia/Lymphoma? - 01/15/12 02:15 PM

It's good to hear that he is feeling better with the decrease in pred thumbup
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Leukemia/Lymphoma? - 01/15/12 03:34 PM

Originally Posted By: kelso
... agree, He does seem to be doing quite well with the pred dose decrease (fingers crossed) One would think he would be doing worse if it was cancer as stated before the pred could help cancer
...

Originally Posted By: kelso
...
Kelso is doing good, playing with his ball right now. His bladder control has improved alot with the decrease in pred (he is able to tell us when he has to go again) and he is starting to look bigger than his little sister again as well ..hehe
...

Originally Posted By: kelso
...
LOVE that you have your fist down the fat ladies throat! smile

And Kelso says thanks for the ball toss...he can catch it in his mouth, just not chase it quite yet, he is working on it! hugging

Originally Posted By: kelso
...
This is beautiful Mary Jane, he is fighting and hope everyday that we are doing him justice. We do try to take comfort in the fact he is doing well/trying so hard, and then at the same time "somethin just aint right"

but the med decreases have seemed to help so far, we have been fortunate with a mild winter for our bare bellied boy smile our patchwork quilt smile that's what I call him
...
party groovy happyboogie

I am happy, pleased, delighted, overjoyed, thrilled, ecstatic, elated after reading all the positive news about Kelso's progress today!!! That old saying, "A journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step" came to mind, and it seems to me that you and Kelso have walked at least a hundred miles since your last update!!!

grouphug fetch fetch fetch grouphug
Posted by: Hollysmom

Re: Leukemia/Lymphoma? - 01/15/12 08:32 PM

Glad the pred is starting to be reduced. You might see lots of difference fairly quickly, all for the good I hope.
Give him a pat from me and Holly and you and hubby keep up your strength and prayers.
Posted by: GraciesMommy

Re: Leukemia/Lymphoma? - 01/17/12 01:46 PM

Hi, just catching up. I am sorry to hear the news. You are in my thoughts and prayers.

hugging
Posted by: kelso

Re: Leukemia/Lymphoma? - 01/19/12 11:59 PM

Kelso is on 25 mg of pred a day now, started last week.

He has had a really good week. I am almost afraid to say it outloud!

Stronger on walks....he has tore up two of his beds in his room this week and has been humping blankets blush oh kelso....

needless to say, I think those are all good signs, the most kelso-like I have seen him since before this all started in sept.

thanks again
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Leukemia/Lymphoma? - 01/20/12 12:38 AM

knock wood and cross fingers! So very happy to hear this!

I will try to not jinx things smile



(I pulled out a bunch of those other links and put them in the Index, the topic came up on the tick list today.)
Posted by: bianca

Re: Leukemia/Lymphoma? - 01/20/12 03:45 AM

Great news!
Posted by: Qyn

Re: Leukemia/Lymphoma? - 01/20/12 07:18 AM

crossedfingers
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Leukemia/Lymphoma? - 01/20/12 07:35 AM

party GOOD BOY KELSO!!! What fantastic news!!! So happy to hear you're feeling better!!!

FOR YOU BEAUTIFUL BOY, MAY EVERYDAY BE HUMP DAY FROM NOW ON!!!
Posted by: Emoore

Re: Leukemia/Lymphoma? - 01/20/12 09:59 AM

Hooray! So glad to hear Kelso is feeling like Kelso again. That just made my day.
Posted by: aubie

Re: Leukemia/Lymphoma? - 01/20/12 10:49 AM

Just caught up on everything, sorry I've been MIA. Thinking and praying for you all! And zooming more "happy humping" vibes that way!! grouphug
Posted by: Hollysmom

Re: Leukemia/Lymphoma? - 01/20/12 05:39 PM

Glad to hear. Its amazing how fast the bad effects go away once the pred starts going away too. Keep up the good work kelso...
Posted by: kelso

Re: Leukemia/Lymphoma? - 01/21/12 04:19 AM

One day at a time I suppose

The humping comments are cracking me up, I couldn't believe it when I saw it

I am certainly happy to see Kelso have a bit of the 'tude he has always been known for with family and friends again.

I was telling my mom the other night that Kelso destroyed two of his beds and snuck up on the counters to steal the kitchen towels and she was glad to hear it! Who would have thought our dog's bad habits would be a good thing?

thanks again
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Leukemia/Lymphoma? - 01/28/12 09:43 AM

fetch how's Kelso doing? gsdbeggin
Posted by: kelso

Chemo - 01/31/12 11:53 PM

Sorry I have not been around much.
Crazy around here, in a bit of a fog.

The past few weeks Kelso has been doing really well, tapering off the steroids and acting more like himself than I have seen him in awhile. I think I even commented to Lisa that I felt like I was meeting an old friend again, he was just doing great.

I got up for work at 5am this last Sun morning (one reason I have not been around) and Kelso was sleeping, I let him out, ect., was acting fine. The night prior we were actually commenting on how well he was doing.

At around noon Dan called me and said he was at the ER vet (same one). Kelso had refused his food so Dan took him in, knowing the signs from before.

Fever was 106, platlets 20,000. Lowest they have been. He stayed overnight and was given IV Baytril and Ampicillin. Perked up the next morning. The critical care vet that saw him last time spoke with me and seems confident that this is lymphoma/leukemia. As he counts were way out of wack (lymphocytes really high) and neutrophills really low. So the lymphs appear to be crowding out his neutrophills which is why he has had these infections. She thinks that this evidence, paired with the positive cancer testing is a diagnosis we can no longer ignore. Bone marrow biopsy not possible as his platlets are so low, and at this point probably does not make a difference. He also has an enlarged submandibular lymph node which points to the diagnosis as well in some cases, this was never present before that we know of

We were able to take him home last night, thankfully. He is resting well and amazingly is doing better than the last episode for now. No clear source of infection, still on steroids and atbx.

As of now we are planning on rechecking his counts at the end of the week and administering chemotherapy. We did not do it while he was there as his counts were in a dangerous range to not make chemo safe. They say it does not have to many side effects for dogs (chemo) and with him turning around so quick we want to give it a go. As long as he is fighting through this and comfortable and happy, and we can have more time with him, we want to try it.

It will probably be Vincristine. Anyone have any experience with chemo in dogs?

It took me awhile to post this because it is honestly really hard to talk about. I alternate between being at peace with this and waking up in the middle of the night sobbing. I thought about not coming here at all. But everyone has been so helpful and kind and really helped us through this, the least I could do would be to tell you what is going on. It is just hard to say

The last few weeks were wonderful, we have had a mild mild winter with no snow at all, Kelso was having fun. He is a strong dog.

One of my favorite pictures, this was taken not even a year ago (last Feb). I just can't believe it really. Glad the snow has stayed away this year for Kelso

Thank you again for your thoughts and prayers. Our hearts are breaking but we just have to keep thinking that he will get better, at least for a little bit, he has not told us that he is to tired to do this yet

Posted by: Woodreb

Re: Chemo - 02/01/12 12:01 AM

No experience with chemo, but sending lots of good thoughts and prayers for your boy. grouphug
Posted by: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: Chemo - 02/01/12 12:08 AM

Steph. I am so sorry I have been busy and just catching up with Kelso's status.

I understand how you feel with the alternating between calm and total sadness. You know your boy the best and will know when he doesn't have any more gas in his tank to fight back the disease.

Take all the good days you can. Lots of pictures on the good days.

I know it is hard to put into words, please know we are here for you.
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: Chemo - 02/01/12 12:15 AM

Oh, Steph, I am so sorry. My experiences with dogs, lymphoma and chemo are from many years ago and thankfully the chemo has improved a ton. I will say that I would want my dog to also be under the care of a very good holistic vet while getting chemo. I think acupuncture especially can really help with chemo and homeopathy has some good things to offer as well. Many good thoughts going out to you, Kelso and to the rest of your family. hugging
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Chemo - 02/01/12 01:02 AM

I'm so sorry Steph, hoping for the best for kelso throughout this hugging
Posted by: AgilePaws

Re: Chemo - 02/01/12 01:17 AM

Steph, our first Gordon Setter was diagnosed with stage 5B lymphoma back in 1999 at teh age of 8. It was an unusual form of lymphoma and it didn't present as it normally does so it was difficult to get a diagnosis, even though he had been seen at the University of Wisconsin a few times. While they were trying to diagnose it he crashed one day and I brought him in on a Sunday afternoon to UW and he was wheeled in on a gurney. They started him on their lymphoma protocol and, while he was very critical that day and there was little hope of his survival, he came home two days later and was doing quite well. He went through the treatment and went into a full remission. He had very few side effects. Chemo does not affect dogs like it does humans because the doses are lower and the quality of life is the focus. He ended up having two more years with us. He did come out of remission once and started on the treatment again and did well for a while, but we had to stop it because he had a heart murmur and the chemo drug affected his heart. After that we did let him go. However, considering the late stage of his lymphoma, his recovery was nothing short of miraculous and they still use his case at UW in the classroom. I wouldn't hesitate to do it again because we were able to give Laddie the best two years of his life.

So, I would have no hesitation about going ahead with the chemo for another dog if I were faced with the decision. However, I would check to see if it is the UW protocol. The protocol they developed, that Laddie had, has become the benchmark for lymphoma treatment because of its success and I believe that most of the top specialty vets in the U.S. are using it. It shouldn't be hard to find out because it has become known as the UW protocol.

I send my sincerest best wishes to you and Kelso.
Posted by: Qyn

Re: Chemo - 02/01/12 02:13 AM

Sandy that is an encouraging story to read about Laddie - thank you for sharing. Hoping for more of the same for Kelso.

Hugs to Steph and family. hugging I know how hard it has been for you to share this. so thank you for having the courage to do so anyway.
Posted by: bianca

Re: Chemo - 02/01/12 02:46 AM

Steph, I am keeping Kelso firmly in my thoughts and prayers. Sending him a gentle little smooch on his head and big hugs to you and DH hugging
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Chemo - 02/01/12 05:03 AM

grouphug I'm so sorr! I'll keep Kelso and you and Dan in my prayers. grouphug
Posted by: RileyAnna

Re: Chemo - 02/01/12 07:27 AM

So very sorry to hear this Steph. The good thing about Vincrestine is that it seems to boost the platelets. Riley was given a round of it in Dec. to boost his platelets. Keeping you, your husband and especially Kelso in my prayers.
Posted by: Hollysmom

Re: Chemo - 02/01/12 10:08 AM

My thoughts and prayers are with you and Dan and Kelso.
Keep fighting big boy....
Posted by: DancingCavy

Re: Chemo - 02/01/12 10:16 AM

I'm so sorry to hear such devastating news. I'm sending strength and positive thoughts to you, Kelso, and your family. I hope he can knock it into remission and go back to being the happy, healthy dog he was before. Best of luck to you.
Posted by: Braverhund

Re: Chemo - 02/01/12 10:36 AM

hugging hugging hugging I'm so sorry Steph. Sending everything positive for dear Kelso!
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Chemo - 02/01/12 11:57 AM

Steph,

You and your husband have taken Kelso through so much. Along with everyone, I fervently hope this is another therapeutic step that will improve his health and yours.

Gosh, this is tough,
Mary Jane
Posted by: kaisersmom

Re: Chemo - 02/01/12 12:00 PM

So sorry to hear the news. I was so hoping the vets were wrong about the lymphoma/leukemia diagnosis. My thoughts and prayers are with you, Dan & Kelso as he begins his chemo treatments. hugging
Posted by: aubie

Re: Chemo - 02/01/12 12:23 PM

hugging
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: Chemo - 02/01/12 05:30 PM

I am so sorry to hear this news about Kelso. I hope the chemo goes well and he finds good health again.

hugging
Posted by: middleofnowhere

Re: Chemo - 02/01/12 05:38 PM

Barker the Younger was on chemo for hemangiosarcoma a few years back. It bought us a few months and she had no ill effects from it. Seemed to tolerate it very well.

May Kelso handle it equally fine.
Posted by: Tara

Re: Chemo - 02/01/12 06:47 PM

Sending lots of good thoughts to you all. hugging
Posted by: kelso

Re: Chemo - 02/01/12 10:14 PM

Thank you guys so much.

Especially the encouraging thoughts regarding the chemo, I was hoping we were making the right decision and your experiences make me think we are.
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Chemo - 02/02/12 07:24 PM

Please keep us updated how he's doing!!! hugging
Posted by: TimberWolf

Re: Chemo - 02/02/12 10:09 PM

Steph, I am so sorry to hear about Kelso. I just now finished reading this forum. Sending prayers and health wishes for Kelso. If you need anything, please let me know. I don't know where in KC you are. We are in Shawnee. Hugs.
Posted by: Kris

Re: Chemo - 02/02/12 10:14 PM

Aw Steph, I don't know what to say. Know that my thoughts and prayers are with you all and especially with Kelso... hugging
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Chemo - 02/02/12 10:28 PM

Sending positive thoughts for Kelso today hugging
Posted by: kelso

Re: Chemo - 02/04/12 01:38 AM

Thanks again everyone, the hugs do help so much

Kelso went for chemo today so spent the day with his vet techs
His white count was to low to safely do the chemo with the standard "CHOP" type protocol so he did not get it. So the internist looked into other options.

He will be getting L-arginine that does not affect the white blood cells. She cannot get it until this tuesday so he will go in for the injection then.

I asked her why he was still alive after months of this. She believes the vaccine was a "red herring" that uncovered an indolent cancer "CLL" Chronic lymphocytic leukemia" that he could have had for a long time.

We talked about oncologists/bone marrow transplants, referral to Universities ect. But he is sick. And she has talked to 2 oncologists already. His hematocrit is 15 and she described his pulses as thready.

But he is stable and comfortable. This is terminal, in the vets words. I have to say it outloud.

I love my boy so much and thank you all for loving him as well. The vets/ect have all been surprised at how strong he has been, but it doesn't surprise me at all, that is just who he is.

Hope you all have a great weekend, I am looking forward to some time with Kelso and Allie. Hugs to your dogs also, there is alot of dogs fighting things here in these health threads.
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: Chemo - 02/04/12 01:53 AM

Hi Steph,

I am sitting here thinking about what to type. My dad had CLL--I didn't know that dogs got it. It is considered slow moving. He lived with it for 7 years. They say people don't die of CLL but they die of something else b/c their immune system is so compromised. My dad's body just wore out finally.

Anyway, I know how much you love your Kelso and I am so, so sorry that this is happening. I'm sending out much peace, strength and positive energy to your entire family.

I hope you have a great weekend with the dogs. hugging
Posted by: kelso

Re: Chemo - 02/04/12 02:06 AM

Originally Posted By: BowWowMeow
Hi Steph,

I am sitting here thinking about what to type. My dad had CLL--I didn't know that dogs got it. It is considered slow moving. He lived with it for 7 years. They say people don't die of CLL but they die of something else b/c their immune system is so compromised. My dad's body just wore out finally.

Anyway, I know how much you love your Kelso and I am so, so sorry that this is happening. I'm sending out much peace, strength and positive energy to your entire family.

I hope you have a great weekend with the dogs. hugging


frown I am sorry to hear about your dad frown

I had heard the same about CLL, it is really confusing with Kelso. He should be older if he had that, and if he had agressvive lymphoma he should, by all accounts, be dead. It just doesn't make sense in alot of ways but not sure it ever will. The vet said that what may happen is that he will get septic (infection) again from the low white counts or have such a low hematocrit that his body will just stop.

It is heatbreaking as it just seems like slow torture, though he does not seem uncomfortable? Some days, like the last few weeks, he seemed so much better, but some days now he just seems tired. Then better, back and forth. I keep talking to him, looking him right in the eyes and trying to ask him what he feels and what he wants.

He is just to much of stubborn german dog to tell me right now. He seems to keep pushing. So we will do everything we can at this point.

Thank you so much, your thoughts mean alot.
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Chemo - 02/04/12 02:37 AM

grouphug hugging hugging Steph & Kelso hugging hugging grouphug

I honestly don't know what to say! Kelso has already proven he's a real fighter and has a lot of heart! wub

I hope and pray that his attitude, the love and comfort you and Dan are giving him, the prayers of your family & friends, and the chemo meds will all combine to help him kick this disease in the butt!

grouphug hugging hugging hugging grouphug
Posted by: bianca

Re: Chemo - 02/04/12 03:17 AM

Steph, I don't know what to say either teary but I am sending all my prayers and positive thoughts for Kelso to keep fighting hugging hugging

Would you possibly consider an animal communicator?
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Chemo - 02/04/12 03:51 AM

Kelso is a magnificant boy and a fighter. Continued thoughts for him, and strength to you and Dan hugging
Posted by: DancingCavy

Re: Chemo - 02/04/12 08:31 AM

Kelso definitely sounds like he isn't ready to give up yet. Sending strength your way.
Posted by: LJsMom

Re: Chemo - 02/04/12 08:47 AM

hugging
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: Chemo - 02/04/12 08:52 AM

No words. teary

hugging
Posted by: DaisyShadow

Re: Chemo - 02/04/12 09:39 AM

teary

Did not want to come here and read this...even though I knew, coming here reading this does make it real. Like you said saying it "out loud". I just do not want this to be true.
Praying this time, this time they learn something to STOP this, to heal Kelso and all the other dogs on the threads in the health section. So there is no more cancer in dogs or humans. That God sent this strong, wonderful beautiful dog to educate us all. grouphug

My family is here for you, Dan, Kelso and Allie.
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Chemo - 02/04/12 09:58 AM

Originally Posted By: kelso
He seems to keep pushing. So we will do everything we can at this point.


All I can do is applaud the strength shared by Kelso and his family.

Steph, Dan, and Kelso together know best.

MJ
Posted by: Hollysmom

Re: Chemo - 02/04/12 10:49 AM

He is fighting and wants to continue his fight for life.
You and Dan are giving him the strength to continue.
If the time comes to make a choice, Kelso will tell you what to do. Enjoy every day with him.
Posted by: JeanKBBMMMAAN

Re: Chemo - 02/04/12 10:50 AM

http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/14_10/features/Dogs-Undergoing-Chemotherapy_20367-1.html

I am not sure if you are a subscriber, but good article, if you need it, I am sure someone where can get it to you somehow.

I always like her stuff: http://www.dogaware.com/health/cancer.html and then the Magic Bullet Fund lady has some good info. http://www.helpyourdogfightcancer.com/

I have seen dogs on IMOM do really well with the chemo for these types of cancers. As in remission good. So keeping all good thoughts for you.
Posted by: Barb E

Re: Chemo - 02/04/12 02:15 PM

hugging and hugging
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Chemo - 02/04/12 03:38 PM

Originally Posted By: JeanKBBMMMAAN

I have seen dogs on IMOM do really well with the chemo for these types of cancers. As in remission good. So keeping all good thoughts for you.


I think the blood cancers have the best chemo outcomes.

hugging for Kelso and his humans...
Posted by: TimberWolf

Re: Chemo - 02/04/12 05:21 PM

Steph, I can't possibly come up with any words that would just take this dreadful disease away from your baby. I am so sorry. This is so heartbreaking. I am going to continue to believe for a miracle...somehow..something change. He seems to be such a precious one who loves life and his family. My thoughts and prayers are with you and your family.
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Chemo - 02/04/12 05:23 PM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
Originally Posted By: JeanKBBMMMAAN

I have seen dogs on IMOM do really well with the chemo for these types of cancers. As in remission good. So keeping all good thoughts for you.


I think the blood cancers have the best chemo outcomes.

hugging for Kelso and his humans...
hugging That's great news, now all we have to do is hope and pray that a year or two from now we can count Kelso as one of the survivors!!!
Posted by: Tara

Re: Chemo - 02/04/12 11:43 PM

Thinking of you and sending good thoughts for Kelso. hugging

Please let me know if you need anything.
Posted by: kelso

Re: Chemo - 02/05/12 12:29 AM

wub to everyone for everything

Jean I used to have a subscription to The Whole Dog Journal, no longer do. Thanks for the link

We are getting some wet snowflakes tonight, kindof peaceful.

Good night

Kelso taking a break from his donut (cone), and me kissing him, hehe smile

Posted by: Qyn

Re: Chemo - 02/05/12 05:29 AM

Great photo, he is such a gorgeous boy - I am glad Dan has got the "hang" of the camera.
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Chemo - 02/05/12 08:19 AM

That picture is so sweet. Kelso looks fantastic, you'd never know how sick he is.
Posted by: DancingCavy

Re: Chemo - 02/05/12 08:32 AM

He looks really good! Keep on smiling, Kelso.
Posted by: JeanKBBMMMAAN

Re: Chemo - 02/05/12 08:47 AM

WHAT a sweetie!

I wanna see a puppy Kelso picture - if you have time/one handy. He was one of the cutest puppies.

How is Miss Allie?

Let's see if we can get you that article somehow...
Posted by: GraciesMommy

Re: Chemo - 02/05/12 10:20 AM

Steph, I have absolutely no words. My heart aches for you and all you've been through. Give that handsome boy kisses for m.e I'm here if you need me.

hugging
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: Chemo - 02/05/12 10:53 AM

I can get you the article. Pm your email address.

I love Kelso. wub
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Chemo - 02/05/12 12:13 PM

That's a wonderful valentine shot!

He's so very beautiful.

lots of positive thoughts,
MJ
Posted by: Barb E

Re: Chemo - 02/06/12 07:17 PM

hugging I wish I had some huge words of wisdom, just know that I'm keeping you all in my thoughts!
Posted by: TimberWolf

Re: Chemo - 02/06/12 07:51 PM

Steph, thinking of your boy today. How is he doing? Hopefully, he had a good weekend.
Posted by: RileyAnna

Re: Chemo - 02/06/12 07:58 PM

Checking in to see how all of you are doing. Hope things are well for you and all.
Posted by: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: Chemo - 02/06/12 10:58 PM

Hi Steph. Just wanted to send you some grouphug
Posted by: Natalie559

Re: Chemo - 02/07/12 10:45 AM

I am so sorry about Kelso's diagnosis! Hoping the chemo makes him feel better and gives you all lots more time together!
Posted by: kelso

Re: Chemo - 02/07/12 09:47 PM

Everything is ok. Holding steady again. He is just tired off and on, more tired than not most of the time.

Chemo shot tomorrow, he hung out at the vet all day today but they could not get the shot in during the day. But they like him there, hehe so he likes it smile He is back home tonight.

I WILL get a puppy pic up, it is so fun to look through them wub

Ruth I will pm you me email address, thanks!

thanks again EVERYONE!!!, your support helps so much
Posted by: TimberWolf

Re: Chemo - 02/07/12 10:28 PM

Steph, so glad to hear he is doing ok. I am not surprised that he is tired. It's probably his body trying to fight off whatever is going on. Looking forward to seeing the puppy pic. Hang in there. Sending good thoughts and wishes toward your and Kelso's way.
Posted by: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: Chemo - 02/07/12 11:39 PM

Well Steph how could any one not like Kelso. I really like it when my Vet likes my dog, it makes it easier for me to leave them there if/when I have to.

I am glad that Kelso in hanging in there.
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Chemo - 02/08/12 03:59 AM

Originally Posted By: kelso
Everything is ok. Holding steady again. He is just tired off and on, more tired than not most of the time.

Chemo shot tomorrow, he hung out at the vet all day today but they could not get the shot in during the day. But they like him there, hehe so he likes it smile He is back home tonight.

I WILL get a puppy pic up, it is so fun to look through them wub

Ruth I will pm you me email address, thanks!

thanks again EVERYONE!!!, your support helps so much
Almost missed your update ... It didn't show up as NEW!

It makes life easier when they like their vets and you don't have to worry about them being happy!

Looking forward to seeing your pictures of him!
grouphug hugging Kelso, Steph & Dan hugging grouphug
Posted by: aubie

Re: Chemo - 02/08/12 01:34 PM

Still cheering for team Kelso and happy humping!! Hugs to you all!!!
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Chemo - 02/08/12 01:53 PM

All good wishes for a painless infusion (injection?) and a happy trip home.

MJ
Posted by: kelso

Kelso's fight is over - 02/09/12 08:31 PM

Last night Kelso was tired and weak, especially in the hindend. We spent the night making him comfortable, swaddling him in his favorite blankets with his favorite toys. I petted him over and over and tried to memorize his color, smell and feel and tell him how much I loved him and thanked him for being him.

We felt he was nearing the end. His eyes. We talked and decided to see if he was in the right state for his upcoming first chemo injection in the next day, maybe today was a bad day we thought.

I had some strange feeling that last night when I took the dogs out for the last time that night that it may be the last time I ever did. Allie laid with Kelso all night. He got up this morning and was stable, we both left for work at 630. Allie stayed with Kelso.

Dan came home at around 830 as we did not feel right about everything. Kelso was laying down but had urinated and not moved from the spot. Dan got his leash and he did not react. He leashed him and went to take him out to the truck and Kelso took a few steps and collapsed in the garage. He tried to get up but Dan had to carry him to the truck. He never tried to walk again after that point.

Dan called and I left work right away to go the vet.
Our internist was there and we spent alot of time with Kelso. He was calm, but so so tired. He would not make eye contact with me or Dan. He clearly told us it was time. Kelso never did anything he did not want to do, he always made his choices his way. His belly had also become distended and the vet said it was likely his liver failing, cancer taking over his body.

At 10 am our internist, Dan and I, held him tight as we let him go to Meeka, to be free of any pain and cancer. Free to play ball again.

I witnessed something amazing as well. As I said he would not make eye contact with us the whole time we were there, he was always trying to be so strong, always fighting. Dan was holding his head and I was on the side of him. When the vet injected the propofol Kelso let out a big sigh and lifted his head straight up to where Dan was and licked him on face, with every ounce and last bit of energy he had. Then he finally let his big german head rest.


Thank each and every one of you for loving and caring about our dog. There is so much more I want to say about him and hopefully when it feels right I can. It hurts to bad right now.
Posted by: Jane Jean

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/09/12 08:41 PM

Oh, Steph....I am so so sorry. hugging
so not fair
Posted by: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/09/12 08:42 PM

Steph, Dan and Allie; I am so sorry for your loss.

Big guy run free of the pain and know that you will be missed so much.
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/09/12 08:43 PM

no-it's so sad. I'm so very sorry.

Mary Jane
Posted by: GraciesMommy

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/09/12 08:53 PM

So so so sorry. hugging
Posted by: LukesMom

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/09/12 08:57 PM

This is so sad, he was way to young. I am so sorry. Run free handsome boy.
rip
Posted by: Tara

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/09/12 09:01 PM

I'm so sorry.
Posted by: RileyAnna

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/09/12 09:05 PM

Oh Steph, please know how sorry I am for your loss. This is just so not fair at all. I wish there was more I could say to comfort you and Dan. I am holding you in my heart. Sally
Posted by: DaisyShadow

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/09/12 09:05 PM

teary
Posted by: kelso

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/09/12 09:07 PM

I wanted to post one pic. This was when he was 3

I always want to remember my boy the way he was, strong - healthy and stubborn as a mule. He was really special




thank you all so much, you don't know how much your words mean. Alot of you have "known" Kelso since he was a pup
Posted by: TMarie

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/09/12 09:11 PM

Oh Steph,

I can barely type through the tears. I am so so sorry.
Posted by: GrandJan

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/09/12 09:26 PM

I am so, so sorry. What a beautiful baby. Run free, sweet Kelso. butterfly
Posted by: Emjworks05

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/09/12 09:30 PM

I am so, so, so very sorry for your loss of Kelso hugging hugging
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/09/12 09:30 PM

Oh no. I am so sorry. I am crying and feeling overwhelmed. Thanks for sharing Kelso with us. hugging

Holding you, Dan and Allie in my thoughts.
Posted by: TimberWolf

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/09/12 09:32 PM

Oh, my gosh Steph, I am so so so sorry to hear. R.I.P. sweet Kelso. I don't know what to say. It is so heartbreaking. I had so hoped he would recover and once again be back to his normal Kelso again. Such a sweet, sweet boy. My condolences to you, your husband and Allie butterfly butterfly

hugging hugging
Posted by: GSDTrain

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/09/12 09:35 PM

I am so sorry Steph teary
I have no words.
May he be pain free now. He knew how much he was loved.

butterfly Run Free Kelso, you handsome boy rip

Steph; you, Dan and Allie are in my thoughts. hugging
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/09/12 09:45 PM

grouphug grouphug grouphug grouphug grouphug grouphug
Steph & Dan,

I'm so sorry for your loss!

I know how special Kelso was to you, the close bond you had with him. You all fought hard during the past five months to help him regain his health, and he valiantly fought this last battle with all the strength and courage you could ask of any man or beast.

I know how much you loved Kelso and how much he loved you, and how much it hurts to have lost this courageous dog.

I wish I could write the words I want to say to comfort you, but I can't.

Ben Hur Lampman, the late Poet Laurete of Oregon, ended his beautiful essay, WHERE TO BURY A DOG, by stating, "Smile at them then, for you shall know something that is hidden from them, and which is well worth the knowing. The one best place to bury a good dog is in the heart of his master."

rip Rest in Peace, Kelso!
grouphug grouphug grouphug grouphug grouphug grouphug
Posted by: Karin

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/09/12 09:48 PM

I'm typing through my tears too. I'm so very sorry to hear about Kelso. You did the only thing you could do and you helped him to be free of his pain and suffering. He was such a beautiful and sweet dog. Rest in peace, Kelso. angel
Posted by: JeanKBBMMMAAN

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/09/12 10:14 PM

This is just...so sad, such a big, beautiful, full of life boy. Cancer sucks. I am so sorry, so shocked. I don't even know what to say.

hugging and to Allie too.
Posted by: Jason L

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/09/12 10:22 PM

I'm so sorry Steph!
Posted by: kaisersmom

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/09/12 10:26 PM

I am so very sorry - there are just no words. This has been a very bad week for so many great dogs and their families. I wish you, Dan and Allie strength in the days ahead grouphug Rest in peace, Kelso paw teary
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/09/12 10:37 PM

Beautiful, strong Kelso, I can't believe you too are gone.

You were well loved and will be forever remembered.

This is a week of tears. I am so sorry for your family's loss and wish all of you strength to get through these next days.

I am so sorry.

Run free, great dog, Kelso. gsdhalo
Posted by: LJsMom

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/09/12 10:40 PM

I am so sorry. So much loss lately. hugging
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/09/12 10:43 PM

Steph, Dan, I am so very very sorry that your brave and strong boy is gone. They are amazing, and fight so hard, for them, for us. He did not want to leave you, but is thankful to be free of the beast that was eating him alive, and I am so glad that you were all there together when it was time to say goodbye.

It hurts, it hurts a lot, they are so amazing. Hug allie with all your heart and soul, and then a little extra for me too, please.

hugging
Posted by: Hollysmom

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/09/12 10:47 PM

My heart goes out to both of you. Kelso fought a hard battle, and like I said, he told you it was time. He was strong and gave it everything he could, but finally had to ask you to let him go.

Such sorrow this week. My prayers are with all of you.
Posted by: Kris

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/09/12 10:51 PM

Oh Steph, this is just heartbreaking... I think it's so true that when you fight through an illness with them, there's a bond there that is pretty amazing. It makes it that much harder when you lose them. He was beautiful and strong and tried so hard to stay with you and Dan. I hope that gives you some comfort because it's clear that he knew how much he was loved. Just such a sad, sad week... teary We will miss him too - he had become very special to all of us who were so hoping that he would recover completely. My thoughts and prayers are with you all... hugging Run free and healthy, Kelso... butterfly
Posted by: Woodreb

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/09/12 10:56 PM

I am so sorry for your loss. rip Kelso
Posted by: middleofnowhere

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/09/12 11:01 PM

I am so sorry.
Posted by: Braverhund

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/09/12 11:43 PM

teary Oh, no Steph. I am so very sorry. Strong, brave, loving Kelso. My heart grieves for your loss. Such a wonderful, special boy. Please let Allie give you as much love as possible right now.
Posted by: mspiker03

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/09/12 11:44 PM

I am so sorry frown
Posted by: Recon

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/10/12 12:04 AM

I am so sorry to hear about Kelso frown He is lucky to have you
Posted by: bianca

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/10/12 02:51 AM

Typing through my tears too. Steph and Dan I am so very very sorry hugging hugging I wish I could say something to help. I am keeping you in my thoughts.

Run free sweet Kelso butterfly
Posted by: Good_Karma

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/10/12 06:08 AM

I'm so very sorry for your loss. hugging Run free Kelso. gsdhead
Posted by: Qyn

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/10/12 07:44 AM

Oh Steph, I just could not write anything until now - despite all that was posted this is a terrible shock! I truly thought all through this, that it was some incredible mistake and some test would come back with a different diagnosis and he would be cured. Still, I am glad that Allie was with him during the night and you both left work to be with him. I wish I could say something profound or comforting to you but this has taken my words away.

hugging Goodbye beautiful boy! teary
Posted by: DancingCavy

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/10/12 08:30 AM

I did not want to hear this news either. Two strong dogs in one week passing on to the other side. Kelso was a fighter. And you guys fought for him too. I'm so sorry he is gone. Run free, Kelso. You shall never be forgotten. My deepest sympathies to you all.
Posted by: Barb E

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/10/12 08:36 AM

Oh, I think another piece of my heart just broke off.

I'm so sorry
hugging and hugging and hugging
Posted by: Schnickle Fritz

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/10/12 10:31 AM

i am so sorry
Posted by: Natalie559

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/10/12 10:42 AM

teary I am so sorry for your loss! So unfair! teary

RIP Kelso angel
Posted by: DnP

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/10/12 11:11 AM

My heart goes out to you, Dan and Allie... teary and Kelso, who fought the good fight.

Thank you for sharing him with us... hugging

What a beautiful picture of such a beautiful dog!
Posted by: Kayos

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/10/12 12:24 PM

I am so sorry. teary teary I was hoping beyond hope there would be a good outcome for Kelso. I am sorry I have not followed as closely as I should have and have just now caught back up.

Hugs to you guys. You did the right thing for him. hugging hugging hugging hugging
Posted by: AgilePaws

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/10/12 12:40 PM

I am so sorry. teary hugging hugging hugging
Posted by: Kamahi

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/10/12 07:30 PM

I am so so sorry... frown Run free Kelso butterfly
Posted by: Cassidy's Mom

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/10/12 08:46 PM

Oh Steph, I just now saw this - I am so sorry. I had really hoped that Kelso would pull through. He fought hard and so did you and Dan, but it was not meant to be.
Posted by: bianca

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/11/12 02:52 AM

Just stopping in to say I am thinking of you hugging hugging
Posted by: DancingCavy

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/11/12 08:47 AM

Still thinking of you guys. *HUGS*
Posted by: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/11/12 11:16 AM

Hi Steph, checking in on you, your DH and Allie. grouphug
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/11/12 11:49 AM

Just stopping by to see how you are today. hugging
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/11/12 11:58 AM

Thinking about you, too.

MJ
Posted by: JakodaCD OA

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/11/12 12:00 PM

I am so very very sorry, why is february always the 'worst' month:(
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/11/12 01:20 PM

hugging Thinking of you all! hugging
Posted by: Barb E

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/11/12 02:55 PM

hugging x 1,000,000.50
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/11/12 04:51 PM

Steph, hope you guys are doing okay......
Posted by: SeanRescueMom

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/11/12 06:05 PM

Originally Posted By: kelso
Dan was holding his head and I was on the side of him. When the vet injected the propofol Kelso let out a big sigh and lifted his head straight up to where Dan was and licked him on face, with every ounce and last bit of energy he had. Then he finally let his big german head rest.


Trying to type through the tears. teary My heartfelt sympathies go out to you. RIP sweet Kelso. gsdhalo
Posted by: Qyn

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/13/12 02:49 AM

hugging Thinking of you all ... Kelso will not be forgotten!
Posted by: Emoore

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/14/12 12:11 AM

Oh Steph. . . . I am so very sorry. My heart is breaking and I'm crying. Through this whole ordeal I, and so many others, have been hoping and praying that Kelso would turn the corner and recover. Such a tragic loss of such a beautiful boy. Hug Allie tight; I'm sure she's confused and grieving too. I'm going to hug my boys now. You, Dan, and Allie are in my thoughts and prayers.
Posted by: bianca

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/14/12 04:36 AM

Thinking of you Steph hugging
Posted by: Lynn P

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/14/12 07:58 AM

I am so sorry to read this... sending positive energy... words seem so inappropriate at times.
Posted by: GSDBESTK9

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/14/12 08:06 AM

Oh Steph, I just saw this. I'm so so sorry for your loss. I'm crying after reading your post, having lost my boy to Cancer this past Nov. it is like reliving it all over again. It hurts so much. frown They were both so young!! Life is so unfair some times. frown My thoughts and prayers are with you. Kelso and now up there with Mason running free and painless. R.I.P. Kelso
Posted by: aubie

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/14/12 09:48 AM

Oh sweetie, I'm soooo sorry! I just saw this. My heart breaks for you... teary

Run free sweet and strong Kelso!! gsdhalo butterfly
Posted by: Betty

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/14/12 07:52 PM

My heart is breaking for you.

Run free sweet boy.
Posted by: Karin

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/15/12 11:40 AM

Just checking in to say that I'm so sorry that you're going through this pain. Just remember that we all still think about you and your sweet Kelso and hope that you're doing OK. hugging
Posted by: TimberWolf

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/15/12 12:02 PM

Steph, are you ok? Haven't heard from you....am concerned.
Posted by: Emoore

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/15/12 04:13 PM

Originally Posted By: LMS
Steph, are you ok? Haven't heard from you....am concerned.


She's grieving. Everybody grieves differently, but I stayed off the forums for over a week after I lost Cash. Looking at everybody else's dogs was just too painful.
Posted by: TimberWolf

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/15/12 04:35 PM

Originally Posted By: Emoore
She's grieving. Everybody grieves differently, but I stayed off the forums for over a week after I lost Cash. Looking at everybody else's dogs was just too painful.


Yes, I can understand that. Thank you. Just concerned for her. I assume you are in contact with her then and that she is ok otherwise?
Posted by: Emoore

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/15/12 10:47 PM

No, I'm not in contact with her. I wish I were. I had her number but lost it when I got a new phone last year. Steph's a strong woman with a great husband, a demanding career, and another wonderful Shepherd. She's probably hanging on by her fingernails right now, but she'll be ok. hugging
Posted by: TimberWolf

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/18/12 11:25 AM

Hey guys, just wanted to let you know that Steph and hubby are doing ok. She asked me to let you know. She has been very busy at work but hopes to get on the forum tonight.
Posted by: kelso

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/18/12 11:41 PM

Hi

Thank you a million times over for everything, everyone here

It has been selfish of me not to come here, already missed so much with friends and their dogs and sorry for that, but just how I was dealing I guess. Just couldn't come here, had to clear my head a bit

and work was crazy for a bit which is good for me as I need to keep busy but no excuse not to say thanks to you all, that have been there

Things are ok, it sucks, I will say that. There isn't any emotion that I am having that you all don't understand, though. So I know I do not have to explain.

We chose to cremate, and should have Kelso's ashes back soon.

Life is different without him for sure, escpecially with the last few months of intense care. We miss him, every little thing about him.

Allie had some hard days, standing in the house at the front door alone waiting for him, wandering around the house. I finally took her over to my mom's house and she looked for him there. I think she feels more at peace now knowing she doesn't have to look for him anymore now that she looked there.

I have been running with her alot, has really helped. I have never broken a bone before but thursday night we were running and she went after something while on the leash and I pulled back on her harness and broke my thumb! I laughed as I imagined it would have been Kelso and I that that sortof thing would have happened to, but it was gentle Allie....

thanks
Posted by: TimberWolf

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/19/12 12:01 AM

Steph, no selfishness at all. Girl, you just lost your baby. It is understandable that you need time to deal with these sad emotions the way you need to. I am sure we all can understand that.

Ouch, so sorry to hear about your thumb. teary Was thinking about that today. I hope it heals quickly.

Huge hugging

butterfly vaseroses
Posted by: bianca

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/19/12 02:52 AM

Oh Steph hugging You have to deal with this huge loss however you can, not coming here is totally understandable.

I hope your thumb is not causing you too much pain hugging And a cuddle for Allie too.
Posted by: kelso

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/19/12 05:36 AM

thanks

You guys just know, which is why I couldnt come back here for a bit, you just know how this is.

I can't read any post without crying yet, cripes that is why I knew I was to much of a wuss to come back a week ago. I admit this is my first time loosing a pup and best friend. It is just not fair

But Allie is a godsend, thanks to Emoore for trusting us to take her home. She is Kelso, she knew him better than anyone and we take peace in that. She has definately filled his big paws like we always knew she would. Him and her were together so long that she has become him and is patching us up everyday. And breaking my bones in the process....lol...no one has to worry about me running miles alone...Allie is there, we run sometimes in the sunrise and sometimes in the sunset, she is a fiercely loyal friend that will go miles and miles for her people wub I know she is sad too and hope that everyday gets better for her as well. Allie deserves nothing but the best, she did everything for her brother, even when he was weak. She stayed with him, she is extraordinary.

Posted by: Qyn

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/19/12 06:57 AM

hugging Sorry to read about your thumb but thankful that you have Allie and vice versa.
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/19/12 09:24 AM

We all deal with grief differently - some publicly and some privately and there is no one way. When I don't see someone here for awhile, I know they are handling their life the way that is best for them and I don't ask.

Whether you are here or not here, you are in our thoughts and Kelso is in our hearts.
Posted by: Sylv

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/19/12 09:38 AM

I just got back from a trip and am typing this through my tears. Big hugs to you and Dan, and may Allie find some peace as well.
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/19/12 10:19 AM

Originally Posted By: PositiveDog
We all deal with grief differently - some publicly and some privately and there is no one way. When I don't see someone here for awhile, I know they are handling their life the way that is best for them and I don't ask.

Whether you are here or not here, you are in our thoughts and Kelso is in our hearts.
grouphug grouphug hugginghugging grouphug grouphug
This is said so well I just had to quote it because I couldn't express my feelings any better if I tried to write something original!!!
grouphug grouphug hugginghugging grouphug grouphug
Posted by: JeanKBBMMMAAN

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/19/12 10:31 AM

It is very much, I will just add a co-sign to it.

And big XOXO to Allie, for being there for you.
Posted by: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/19/12 10:36 AM

Steph, just checking in. I hope you are doing OK. Hugs to you and yours.
Posted by: Furonthefloor

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/19/12 11:11 AM

I'm so sorry to read about Kelso. I was also hoping he could beat this awful thing. It was so hard to read...it really was like reading through what I went through with Dakota last March. Except you got more details than I.
My vets were encouraging & telling me they thought she could fight it/make it. When I looked into Dakota's face she was telling me too & I knew they were wrong...with her eyes...you are so right, their eyes ARE very telling. I also tried to memorize my friends face, how it felt to hug her etc... I feel your pain & hope your pain will be replaced by more of your great memories of Kelso.
I remember when I fell in love with that adorable Kelso puppy picture you posted and I love love the one of Allie & Kelso both peeking over the fence...aka the 2 headed GSD!
huggingYou guys have been in my thoughts as well and will continue to be.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/19/12 12:56 PM

hugging
Posted by: Kayos

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/20/12 08:46 AM

hugging here too.
Posted by: Barb E

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/20/12 09:57 AM

hugging here as well
Posted by: kelso

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/24/12 12:20 AM

thanks guys for the support

This week/few days has kindof sucked. It has been exactly 2 weeks to the day that he passed. Think I am moving out of the numb/shock phase to the where the hell is my dog phase.
Expecting him to greet me at the door when I come home, still waking up at 2am every night to take him out (he had to go out more the last few months because of the steroids) just things like that, it stings

Just have to keep remembering how good he must feel now, whole again
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/24/12 12:58 AM

hugging
Posted by: kelso

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/26/12 04:48 AM

I miss him, more everyday. When will it start to go backwards?

Why does this suck so bad, when I know he has to feel better now? I am just pissed, selfish. Dan went to our regular vet today to get heartworm pills for Allie and our regular vet said our internist came by the day after Kelso died personally to tell our vet that Kelso had passed. He was special, charismatic.
He loved everyone, and everyone loved him.

Also, I was going to post a pic as Jean had asked of Kelso as a pup but he was so sick that night I couldn't

So here goes, the cutest sable puppy you will ever see. Miss you Kelso


















































last day

Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/26/12 05:28 AM

Steph, I think it's going to get worse before it gets better frown hugging

He was so awfully cute, those are really great pictures wub
Posted by: Qyn

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/26/12 06:57 AM

Thanks for sharing those, Steph. I remember a few of them from when you first posted them. wub

Yes, he was special and charismatic which is why it hurts so much frown - that is the best and the worst part of having such a dog in your life. Unfortunately, the loss never gets any easier but it does become bearable and then the good memories become foremost rather than the sadness. Thinking of you.

hugging
Posted by: JeanKBBMMMAAN

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/26/12 08:49 AM

Oof. Last day... hugging I am so sorry, again.

Those puppy pictures are just amazing. How is it possible that he could be so cute? Such a perfect, pure of spirit, wonderful dog.

And so happy with Allie.

Have to say, all those gorgeous pictures and the one with his bowl on his face...what a silly. wub

Hurts.
Posted by: kaisersmom

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/26/12 10:25 AM

That "Last Day" photo is heart-wrenching - but he was still his handsome, regal self, even when he had to have been feeling so bad. The dark clouds photo just before his last day photo was very moving. I noticed that on the dark clouds photo, the sun is shining behind them - and sometime the sun will begin to shine for you again. It might not seem like it right now - I know when Radar passed away we thought we'd never feel "normal" again - but one of these days the happy memories of Kelso will push the darks clouds of sadness away. Thank you for sharing Kelso and Allie's photos with us. hugging
Posted by: DancingCavy

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/26/12 10:36 AM

*HUGS* to you, Steph. It's so hard when we lose them. They become such a presence in our lives that it's hard to adapt when it's gone. I loved looking at Kelso's puppy pictures again. I remember when you brought him home and I cannot believe what a handsome boy he grew to be. Tears welled up in my eyes seeing him again but you can tell how happy he was. What a great life he had. It's so unfortunate it was cut short. frown
Posted by: TimberWolf

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/26/12 11:12 AM

Steph, this is so heartbreaking. Such a handsome boy. I love the picture with him in the bed covered up with his mouth open. Oh, my goodness what a cutie..and the one with the dish in his mouth wub This situation is so unfair and wrong..there are no words. Thank you so much for sharing these pictures with us. Such a precious boy and you can see the love you guys have for each other. Please give Miss Allie a hug from me. How is she doing?
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/26/12 11:44 AM

Steph,

To grow from such a precious puppy to such an altogether outstanding dog, your Kelso was a wonder.

Please give yourself the space to remember your boy; Wolf's loss is part of my world.

take care,
Mary Jane
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Kelso's fight is over - 02/26/12 12:13 PM

grouphug You have such great bunch of pictures of your awesome boy!!! I kept trying to pick out one or two favorites and finally had to give up! Adorable as a puppy, goregous as an adult!!! grouphug
Posted by: kelso

home again - 03/18/12 03:03 AM

Hi

In some ways I wanted this thread to disappear just so I could avoid it. Then I read and re-read every post from you all and all of your words mean so much. And I have not had the courage to make a tribute thread, as much as Kelso does deserve it, I will.

Kelso passed away 5 weeks ago now. I was really pissed off when the rain wiped away the last of his pawprints in the mud. As well as the third time I swept up the house and there was no Kelso fur to clean up. All those tangible things being gone..... hurt, as we remember everything about him so vividly. And the thoughts in this thread from you all....thank you so much.

His ashes came home 2 weeks ago. Kelso is home again. I was on nights so Dan and I waited until we were both ready to look through his things.

I commented to our internist the day he died that I wished she could have known him as "Kelso" the ball loving crazy dog he always was. She asked that I send pics of him and Allie, as she had never met Al. I sent her about 10 pics.

So when we received his box with his ashes, we had no idea what it would be like. It is beautiful, carved wood box with his name on the front. She picked a picture of him running in the sun with his ball, from right before we knew he was sick. I have no idea how or why she picked it, it was a surprise to us when we received it. Perhaps she did know Kelso better than I thought paw

It is really beautiful, I want to share it with you all.

The top of the box, with the picture the vet picked. We had no idea there would be a picture at all



The front of the box with his name





Opening the box, with the ashes and pawprint, and poem on the inside of the rainbow bridge



close up of the poem on the inside



His actual pawprint that the vet did...a COMPLETE surprise to us, we did not ask for this



Where we finally put his box...after 2 weeks. In our curio cabinet alongside our memories of Meeka. You can see Meeka's collar (the colored one) with Kelso's underneath it (the black one). If we leave the side door to the curio cabinet open Allie goes up and sniffs Kelso's collar..hope Ms Al knows he is finally home



thank you again

Posted by: arycrest

Re: home again - 03/18/12 03:51 AM

Gosh Steph, I'm sitting here in tears after seeing the pictures and reading your beautiful tribute to Kelso.

His box is absolutely beautiful and I love the photo of the healthy Kelso running, what a wonderful memory. It was really thoughtful of your vet to do this for you and Dan.

grouphug hugging grouphug
Posted by: bianca

Re: home again - 03/18/12 03:54 AM

Steph I can barely see my screen after reading that teary I am glad Kelso is home where he belongs hugging Your vet is very compassionate. Thinking of you hugging
Posted by: kelso

Re: home again - 03/18/12 05:37 AM

thank you both.


All I know right now is that my life, or the way I might look at things, has been changed by a very special dog. He has made me more patient, more kind, more open minded and definately a better person.

thanks big man
Posted by: Qyn

Re: home again - 03/18/12 07:21 AM

Whooo! teary That is beautiful - a lovely thought from your vets with the photo and paw print. Thanks for sharing this, Steph!
Posted by: DancingCavy

Re: home again - 03/18/12 08:51 AM

How thoughtful and caring of the vet. My eyes welled up reading about it. I'm glad you've been around people who understand the depths to which our dogs touch and enhance our lives. It makes it easier to deal with the loss when you know others get how you feel.

*HUGS*
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: home again - 03/18/12 09:37 AM

Originally Posted By: kelso


All I know right now is that my life, or the way I might look at things, has been changed by a very special dog. He has made me more patient, more kind, more open minded and definately a better person.



This is so wise and so much of the reality of the person-dog pair.

Thnaks, Steph for sharing your insight despite your grief.

Mary Jane
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: home again - 03/18/12 10:49 AM

Such a lovely box and tribute from your vet, both to kelso and to you hugging

I know it's really hard...thanks for sharing with us.
Posted by: Cassidy's Mom

Re: home again - 03/18/12 05:05 PM

That is just beautiful, and what a wonderful gesture by your vet.
Posted by: GraciesMommy

Re: home again - 03/18/12 05:24 PM

hugging teary
Posted by: Barb E

Re: home again - 03/18/12 08:32 PM

What a beautiful box he came home to you in, with lovely sentiment from the vet
hugging and hugging
Posted by: kelso

Re: home again - 03/25/12 02:42 AM

thank you all
every thought is appreciated paw
Posted by: Emoore

Re: home again - 03/25/12 12:16 PM

Originally Posted By: kelso


Kelso passed away 5 weeks ago now. I was really pissed off when the rain wiped away the last of his pawprints in the mud. As well as the third time I swept up the house and there was no Kelso fur to clean up. All those tangible things being gone..... hurt, as we remember everything about him so vividly.


This made me smile. After Cash passed, it took me over a year to clean off the body-smudge on the wall he slept against. Every time I open this thread I cry because I know what you're going through.

The box was a beautiful tribute to a beautiful dog.
Posted by: Shilohsmom

Re: home again - 03/26/12 04:09 PM

Such a lovely tribute to such a special dog. I'm so sorry for your loss.
Posted by: bianca

Re: home again - 07/01/12 04:31 AM

Steph, I just turned over to July on my calendar and shed a little tear at Kelso's face. I hope you are doing well and know that you are in my thoughts hugging hugging
Posted by: arycrest

Re: home again - 07/01/12 06:07 AM

Originally Posted By: bianca
Steph, I just turned over to July on my calendar and shed a little tear at Kelso's face. I hope you are doing well and know that you are in my thoughts hugging hugging
The same here!!! grouphug
Posted by: Qyn

Re: home again - 07/01/12 09:14 AM

Just reread some of this teary. Hugs Steph hugging
Posted by: kelso

Re: home again - 07/29/12 04:04 AM

wow, I haven't been here much lately, actually I haven't been here at all except to pm with Gayle....and even my good friend had to drag me back by the skin of my teeth lol. I am sorry for that. I have felt a bit lost in the dog world without Kelso, which is selfish, I know. Something is gone and missing from my heart and it feels hard and cold, I have not figured it out yet.

I want and need to be here to support each and everyone here, you all are so great and have so much going on with your own families. I think of everyone often. I have never considered myself the dramatic one or anything, but losing my special dog has been unexplainable.

Of course Allie is our light and we continue to do the best by her, love her, and she is happy and adjusting I think.

Your thoughts are so appreciated and I hope you all are well.
As much as I was dreading flipping the calendar to July....I am dreading flipping it to August more. Maybe it will just be July year round here smile

I am sorry I missed your thoughts originally, thank you
Posted by: bianca

Re: home again - 07/29/12 04:53 AM

I think of you often Steph, you have to do what you need to hugging hugging
Posted by: Good_Karma

Re: home again - 07/29/12 08:20 AM

hugging Beautiful photo
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: home again - 07/29/12 08:52 AM

Take care of yourself, Steph. We will all be here whenever you come 'home.'

There is no easy or right way to get through a loss, so you do whatever it is you need to do.

hugging
Posted by: Braverhund

Re: home again - 07/29/12 08:59 AM

Thinking warmly of you... hugging
Posted by: kaisersmom

Re: home again - 07/29/12 10:10 AM

That photo.....wow - absolutely beautiful. Losing a heart dog isn't easy - take whatever time you need and we'll be here when you're ready. hugging
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: home again - 07/29/12 01:01 PM

It's just hard, no escaping that hugging

As Pat said, we are here, whenever.
Posted by: DancingCavy

Re: home again - 07/30/12 07:16 PM

Everyone copes with loss differently. We'll still be here whenever you're ready. Take care of yourself.
Posted by: arycrest

Re: home again - 07/30/12 11:02 PM

Originally Posted By: kelso
...
Your thoughts are so appreciated and I hope you all are well.
As much as I was dreading flipping the calendar to July....I am dreading flipping it to August more. Maybe it will just be July year round here smile
Steph, I'm so glad to see you posted, hopefully you'll be feeling like sharing some pictures of Allie sometime in the near future, maybe even a story or two about her. It's funny, when I turned my beautiful calendar over to July I thought the same thing, I'm going to keep your handsome boy's picture up and just remove the months as they go flying by. grouphug
Posted by: kelso

Christmas 2011 - 12/31/12 03:00 AM



thanks again for all the support, can't fathom that it will be 1 yr 2/9/13. Still mistakenly call Fez "Kels" often on accident. ug

Hope everyone has a great new year and good health to you and your dogs tonguestuck
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Christmas 2011 - 12/31/12 03:55 AM

Tough first Christmas, isn't it?

He was such a wonderful boy wub Here's hoping for a good 2013, parts of 2012 were really really rough hugging
Posted by: bianca

Re: Christmas 2011 - 12/31/12 04:25 AM

hugging

I can't tell you how many times I call Coop "wiggy tail" and then my heart sinks as that was my Misha's nickame hugging
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Christmas 2011 - 12/31/12 12:58 PM

You know, even with Jazz, I often call her by the wrong name, sometimes Max and sometimes Indy. The other day I referred to her as "you guys", which really made me stop.

My Dad was trying to train her the other day, and half way through he started calling her Max. It was weird.
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Christmas 2011 - 12/31/12 08:40 PM

grouphug It's really rough isn't it!!! I know I'll call my guys the wrong names sometimes, glad to know I'm not alone!!!

That's a great picture of both of you!!!

Wishing y'all a very Happy New Year ... hope 2013 makes all your dreams come true!!!
Posted by: SeanRescueMom

Re: Christmas 2011 - 12/31/12 09:19 PM

Sorry you are going through this, I feel for you. hug Sometimes I even call my daughters by the other one's name. wink
Posted by: kelso

Re: Christmas 2011 - 01/01/13 03:02 AM

thank you guys again, thank you thank you, I really don't know what I would do without your understanding. Gayle, Lisa, Bianca, Sean'smom...I know you have all been through this/are going through this and the time you take to comment here means alot.

Lisa, you are right. Kelso was freaking fabulous. That dog was something really special and I think of him everyday.

The holidays are hard of course, we used to take the dogs over to my parents on Christmas Eve and exchange gifts and the most gifts were always for Kelso and Allie from my parents.

A pic of my parents and Allie and Kelso on New Years Eve for those that I do not see on facebook!


I found this while wrapping presents a week or so ago. It was a tag from one of Kelso's presents from years past from my mom. It really hit me. We always called him Kels, or K. That is what I call Fez sometimes on accident. I tagged it up next to his calendar pic and my marathon time. So I could see it everyday to remind me how lucky I am!



Cheers to you all and the new year, and happy and healthy dogs and much love and thoughts to all those we have lost gsdhalo
Posted by: bianca

Re: Christmas 2011 - 01/01/13 04:20 AM

hugging hugging

Maybe to make you smile just a little Steph, I'm pleased my parents aren't the only ones who address gift tags to the puppers hugging
Posted by: RileyAnna

Re: Christmas 2011 - 01/01/13 09:34 AM

I think of you often Steph, as well as all others on the Board, who have lost a special one. Wishing good things for you in 2013.
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Christmas 2011 - 01/01/13 02:40 PM

Originally Posted By: kelso
...
I found this while wrapping presents a week or so ago. It was a tag from one of Kelso's presents from years past from my mom. It really hit me. We always called him Kels, or K. That is what I call Fez sometimes on accident. I tagged it up next to his calendar pic and my marathon time. So I could see it everyday to remind me how lucky I am!
hugging WOW ... what a wonderful surprise to find this special memento of Kelso to add to your collection of things that mean a lot to you.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Christmas 2011 - 01/01/13 02:51 PM

Kelso wub

Steph hugging
Posted by: Qyn

Re: Christmas 2011 - 01/01/13 08:20 PM

Even when we already know it in our heart, it is still lovely to have a poignant physical reminder that he was loved by others too! That is a great picture in front of the Christmas tree!
Posted by: kelso

Re: Christmas 2011 - 01/01/13 11:14 PM

thank you all again! And cheers to 2013
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: Christmas 2011 - 01/01/13 11:20 PM

How nice to find the tag from Christmas past - just another way for "Mr Kels" to be always in your thoughts.

I am so glad we can at least hold the memories forever. hugging
Posted by: kelso

Re: Christmas 2011 - 01/01/13 11:24 PM

Originally Posted By: PositiveDog
How nice to find the tag from Christmas past - just another way for "Mr Kels" to be always in your thoughts.

I am so glad we can at least hold the memories forever. hugging


wub hugging