Cooper has lumpy elbows :(

Posted by: bianca

Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 01/30/12 04:31 AM

Took Cooper to the vet again today as he has an egg on his right elbow and the left is a bit eggy. I was worried it could be a reaction still (I am sure I have read that swollen joints is a side effect). Cooper is not bothered by it even when I applied pressure.

Anywhoo the vet is fairly sure they are as a result from his elbows taking a knock. I do know that when I feed him and say crate, he races in there and the other day he slipped.

Keep an eye on it and if it doesn't start to subside, a fine needle aspirate will be done.

Pics frown







Left which is nowhere as bad



Would this be a case for Traumeel?
Posted by: Qyn

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 01/30/12 05:55 AM

I don't know anything about traumeel so I looked it up and it seems pretty safe for most dogs unless they are sensitive to botanicals in the compositae family (like echinacea???) so it probably won't hurt him. It does looks painful even though you said it isn't for him. Would it be worth contacting the breeder to see if he has any experience with something like this?
Posted by: Good_Karma

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 01/30/12 07:21 AM

Ouch!!! Poor Cooper! I'm glad it doesn't seem to be bothering him, but gosh I'm surprised that a hard landing would cause this. frown Niko took more than a few spills (plus as a puppy he had a really hard Down) and never had this develop. I hope he gets back to normal soon!
Posted by: Woodreb

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 01/30/12 08:03 AM

Poor Cooper - hope he feels better soon.

I've never used Traumeel, but Arnica could be used as well for this.
Posted by: JeanKBBMMMAAN

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 01/30/12 08:21 AM

That...looks...weird.

Fluid?

And of course I had to google and google image swollen elbow joint puppy and found links to things. But if it's not painful...right, it shouldn't be bad?
Posted by: Kayos

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 01/30/12 08:32 AM

Eek poor guy! I hope this clears up quickly for him.
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 01/30/12 09:40 AM

His coat is so soft you can really see that egg. From the picture, it does look spherical, like Jean mentioned fluid filling some pocket.

I sure don't know but I certainly hope it's nothing and goes away.

Mary Jane
Posted by: AngelJ

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 01/30/12 10:03 AM

Poor Cooper frown I hope this clears up quickly.
Posted by: LukesMom

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 01/30/12 10:37 AM

I hope it goes away soon and Cooper heals quickly. He is so cute. wub
Posted by: kaisersmom

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 01/30/12 11:23 AM

What a cute boy!!

Here I go with my people comparisons again, but if Cooper was a human, his right elbow looks like olecranon bursitis. It's an inflammation of the fluid sac (bursa) that is normally at the elbow and can be from hitting it, or sometimes it happens for no reason. I don't think it's particularly painful in people - just looks weird. crazy Not sure if dogs get that or not, but I would think it's possible - might be called something else though.
Posted by: Braverhund

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 01/30/12 11:59 AM

Almost like an elbow hygroma, but from a sudden knock, maybe? Sending good thoughts for Cooper to feel so much better soon! May the swelling subside on it's own. My gosh, he is so adorable! smile
Posted by: sabrina

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 01/30/12 12:04 PM

Poor Cooper frown Hes such a cutie
Posted by: TMarie

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 01/30/12 03:55 PM

Oh no, poor Cooper. I hope whatever it is, he heals quickly.
Posted by: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 01/30/12 07:59 PM

Poor Cooper. I hope that it is just a bit of swelling. You must be careful.
Posted by: bianca

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 01/31/12 03:42 AM

Thank you all so much hugging

I started him on traumeel last night (I figure it can't hurt), yes it is fluid.

Hygroma, I think that's what it is so it's just wait and see. I just can't believe that can come up from general puppy craziness. I was hoping not to need to bubble wrap this one like Molly!

Thank you all again for your thoughts and ideas smile
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 01/31/12 04:29 AM

I hope that it's better? Wonder if icing would help? Probably not if it's fluid, but yes if it's inflammation.
Posted by: Qyn

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 01/31/12 07:39 AM

Maybe lying on tiles or paving etc during our hot weather has not helped either. We have slate floors here in our kitchen and Quynne loves lying on them when it is hot but she is a much older dog but she does have elbow calluses. I hope it is soon on the mend - and that the Traumeel helps.
Posted by: bianca

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 01/31/12 08:37 AM

Alison, thank you, I did read that can be a cause as he does sleep on the tiles a lot (although there are dog beds everywhere). But it just strikes me as a bit odd in a nearly 15 week old?

Lisa, thank you but yes it is fluid (squishy to touch).
Posted by: Qyn

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 01/31/12 09:34 PM

Yes, he is 15wo but ...... we are talking Cooper here - flat out and stop!! poke The hard surfaces are most likely not the cause but they may not be helping the recovery. But hey our dogs choose to sleep where they feel most comfortable so not much you can do. Has the Traumeel had any effect yet?
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 01/31/12 10:11 PM

The timing strikes me as odd...strangely coincidental frown
Posted by: Crooked Creek

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 01/31/12 10:35 PM

Bianca we have an owner of one of our Kira/Blackjack pups here in town with a nearly identical issue.....same area....everything. It has happened on occassion a couple times in his 2 years of age..also started young...he also is a black male gsd. They have all hard floor surfaces as well and the vet called it bursitis as well. The sac/swelling is filled with fluid and she has had it drained a few times over the past few years. They tested the fluid ...nothing....very odd but the similarity has me thinking it IS from injury on the hard floor surface as you suspect. This male too prefers the hard tile to any soft bedding and is rough and tumble playing.
It has come and gone and he is in no pain...they drain it, ice it, and probably do some meds but I couldn't tell what exactly, and keep him calm (like that's easy) until it subsides.
Good luck. Wanted to share the same experience .
Posted by: bianca

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 02/01/12 03:22 AM

Thank you ladies, I really appreciate it hugging

Alison, you may very well be right! He had a small bed in his crate and seemed to prefer to sleep on the tray. We have the air-con on at night so I thought bugger it and have put a bed that completely covers the tray! You WILL at least spend the night on something soft!

Lisa - I can't get away that this is somehow related to the vaccines frown I know this is not his joints as such but I've had four puppies now (3 of them nuts) and never had this. Maybe I'm just chasing something that is not there. Will research as best I can though.

Karen, thank you for sharing that. Everything I have read is that is tends to be better not to drain as that can create infection. I just don't know.

I said to Brad before that maybe we bought another lemon laugh He also has issues with his eyes, so the vet is ordering non steroidal eye drops for me to try. Always something up with my four. But I guess compared to what you three have/are going through, this is easy.

Thanks again smile

ETA: I am giving him Traumeel 3 times a day but no difference as of yet.
Posted by: Good_Karma

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 02/01/12 06:10 AM

B - I know all dogs are different, but we have cement floors and when Niko was a baby pup we did not use anything in his crate other than the plastic tray. And we let Niko and Rosa play in the house, so sometimes there was falling. We never had anything like this happen. Maybe we were just lucky. I don't even think either of our dogs have elbow calluses (yet anyway). Either Cooper really nailed himself (repeatedly because I don't know how you could fall and hurt both elbows), which makes me think he would have yipped or been sore there, or else there is something else going on. My mind is immediately drawn to the timing of the vaccines as well, although I realize it can be a mistake to search for patterns like that. Whatever it is, I am so glad he's not in pain from it. Sorry to hear he's got an eye thing going on. Poor baby, he's having a rough start! But hey! You get extra socialization trips to the vet! eyeroll
Posted by: bianca

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 02/02/12 03:37 AM

Leah, thank you hugging

That's what I think too, I can't believe it is just from lying on the floor? Not to happen in such a short life. And I am thinking the timing is really odd. As of this morning he has liquid diarrhea again frown

Molly never had a bed in her crate either because she ate them all!

LOL at the extra socialization! I thought taking him once a week for weighing was enough rofl
Posted by: Good_Karma

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 02/02/12 06:55 AM

Haha, just trying to find the silver lining in this. What a pisser though, it's just not fair that Cooper is having trouble. thumbdown
Posted by: Woodreb

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 02/02/12 08:53 AM

Poor little guy, hope he feels better soon. Maybe a little pumpkin to help the liquid poo?
Posted by: JeanKBBMMMAAN

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 02/02/12 09:46 AM

Have you taken a fecal in with you? I find that they really love it when you bring them gifts at the vet office. wink
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 02/02/12 10:10 AM

(Jean, yes, there is another thread for that issue frown )

Poor Cooper - hope it ALL turns around soon!
Posted by: bianca

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 02/03/12 05:26 AM

LOL Jean, a gift!!! Yes I did and it all came back clear.

Johanna, thank you. He is back on boiled chicken/rice and I am mixing a tiny amount of pumpkin in. Oh and probiotics.

Thank you all for your thoughts, I appreciate it so much hugging
Posted by: bianca

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 02/04/12 03:12 AM

His elbow looks worse today and it is not as squishy frown

I've pmd Annie (Thanks Lisa) and she has very kindly given me instructions on how to hopefully rid his body of the toxins from the vaccine.




Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 02/04/12 04:04 AM

Well, fudge.

My first thought when you initially posted, is that things like HOD are often vaccine-induced. While this isn't a long bone issue, it just strikes me as a somewhat similar process. Could be wrong!

I would look into systemic, proteolytic enzymes to support him and help break down and eliminate whatever this is, given either 45 min before a meal, or 2 hours after. They won't interfere with any of the homeopathy.
Posted by: bianca

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 02/04/12 04:43 AM

Thank you Lisa, you are so kind especially when you need to be concentrating on Max hugging

I will google enzymes and see what I can find here. If I have to order from overseas it will take weeks to arrive.

Thank you.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 02/04/12 06:01 AM

Can you get Bromelain there? That's just a single type of enzyme, but still very helpful. I've been using Fibrozyme only because that seems to be the only one that Max tolerates.
Posted by: bianca

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 02/04/12 07:26 AM

Thanks again Lisa, I have printed this all out and will check the health food shops in the morning. It does look like I can buy Bromelein ones online here at least smile
Posted by: Good_Karma

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 02/04/12 08:33 AM

Ooof, that looks painful! I know it doesn't bother him, but geez. That is quite the swelling. frown
Posted by: bianca

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 02/05/12 04:19 AM

Leah, I know and I *think* it is even bigger today. Would you like a puppy with that lump?

Lisa I went to the biggest health food shop locally today and picked up this,

http://www.pretoriusvitamins.com.au/vitamin.asp?productID=174

FORMULATION
Bromelains (Equiv to 600 GDU) 500mg
Papain 50mg
Glutamine 200mg
Gentiana lutea (Gentain)
Ext. dry conc. equiv dry root 200mg
Zingiber officinale (Ginger)
Ext. dry conc equiv dry root 350mg
Cynara scolymus (Globe Artichoke)
Ext. dry conc standardised equiv to fresh leaf 2g
(Equiv. to Caffeoylquinic Acids calculated as Cynarin 2mg

I hope that is ok.

I could only get nux vomica 30c so tomorrow (mon) I will ring around homeopaths and see if I can just buy the Sulpher and Thuja without a consult.

Off to the vet tomorrow.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 02/05/12 10:50 PM

Originally Posted By: bianca
Leah, I know and I *think* it is even bigger today. .....

This is not good frown I wonder if it's an inflammatory reaction, which seems most likely frown

Quote:
Lisa I went to the biggest health food shop locally today and picked up this,

http://www.pretoriusvitamins.com.au/vitamin.asp?productID=174

FORMULATION
Bromelains (Equiv to 600 GDU) 500mg
Papain 50mg
Glutamine 200mg
Gentiana lutea (Gentain)
Ext. dry conc. equiv dry root 200mg
Zingiber officinale (Ginger)
Ext. dry conc equiv dry root 350mg
Cynara scolymus (Globe Artichoke)
Ext. dry conc standardised equiv to fresh leaf 2g
(Equiv. to Caffeoylquinic Acids calculated as Cynarin 2mg

This is more of a digestive aid than a systemic enzyme, but it will still help. I would give a 1/2 a tablet, 45 minutes before a meal, and one in the middle of the day away from food. The artichoke might promote bile, and if you feel like he's getting a bit nauseous, then give according instructions, 15 minutes before the meal.

Given away from food, it will help more with systemic inflammation. Given close to the meal, it will help more with digestion. Both areas are a bit messed up, you could always give 2 doses before meals (assuming that he eats twice a day now), and then a dose during the day away from food. Might have to experiment.


Quote:
I hope that is ok.

I could only get nux vomica 30c so tomorrow (mon) I will ring around homeopaths and see if I can just buy the Sulpher and Thuja without a consult.

Off to the vet tomorrow.


We can send some over, but that would take awhile, and hopefully you can get some, somewhere!
Posted by: bianca

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 02/06/12 02:31 AM

Thank you Lisa hugging

I found a homeopath today who had both the sulphur and the thuja so will start tonight!

Bugger I was hoping I had the right stuff but he currently gets 5 or 6 meals a day (other wise he ends up with bad poops) so I can certainly play around with when I give it. Just as well I don't work lolol!

Just come back from the vets for titres (both dogs) and the vet tried to aspirate (sp) some of the fluid. He got a bit out but naturally Cooper was squealing and wriggling frown

So Wednesday morning I'll drop him off for gas and they will drain it completely. Keeping paws crossed that will be the end of it.

Anywhoo some bad pics before vet and after vet. The timing is just too weird after vac's for me.

It's huge frown



Posted by: bianca

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 02/06/12 02:58 AM

Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 02/06/12 04:05 AM

Egads, that's terrible frown It just hurts when they get off to such a start.

Why don't you try the enzyme formulation just before each meal and see how that goes?

Did they take his temp? Normal I presume?
Posted by: Good_Karma

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 02/06/12 07:05 AM

teary Oh this sucks. thumbdown

hugging
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 02/06/12 08:15 AM

Oh poor sweet Cooper!

Did the vet examine the fluid from that bulge?

I really hope that once it's drained, that's the end of it.

Cooper has to get back to his job of entertaining you and Miss Moo and all of us.

MJ
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 02/06/12 03:13 PM

This is just awful. Poor little Cooper and poor you. frown I hope that draining it makes it go away forever. And I agree about the timing of the vaccines! Hopefully the remedies will help his system clear out. hugging

I'm sure it doesn't make you feel better but Varda is a medical nightmare. She has about 10 things wrong with her and every time I think I've got the URI under control it comes back. I'm just on a one day at a time approach with her...luckily she has no idea and is sweet as can be. Hang in there!
Posted by: Barb E

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 02/06/12 07:13 PM

Well poop, I had hoped this would be so much better by now!!
Posted by: bianca

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 02/07/12 03:37 AM

Thank you all so very much hugging

His temperature has been fine everytime they check it. I have started the enzymes before 2 of his meals (don't want to give him too much too soon).

The fluid looked clearish Mary Jane, but the vet said after I left he would look at in (under microscope I think) to check.

Oh no Ruth, what is wrong with little Varda? frown

I gave him the Sulphur and Nux Vomica and today his first Thuja.

Thank you all for your good thoughts, the good part is it doesn't slow him down! Although I expect Moo will be happy to have a day without him tomorrow laugh
Posted by: Natalie559

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 02/07/12 10:49 AM

Ouch! Hope you get this sorted out soon!
Posted by: kelso

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 02/07/12 10:04 PM

Hope Cooper is doing good today?!? Many thoughts
Posted by: Woodreb

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 02/16/12 08:27 PM

How is Cooper doing - better we hope.
Posted by: Kayos

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 02/16/12 09:51 PM

Hope lumps are gone!
Posted by: bianca

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 02/17/12 03:03 AM

Thank you so much for thinking of the little stinker, he is doing fine.

He came home from the vets looking like this:





I took the cone off that night and he didn't chew the bandage at all. I took the bandage off on Sunday and touch wood so far no lump.

They took 30 something mils of fluid out.

Thank you again hugging
Posted by: Qyn

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 02/17/12 06:25 AM

What a good puppy - I hope this is the end of this problem. He has grown so much and is still as gorgeous as ever!
Posted by: Good_Karma

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 02/17/12 07:09 AM

Yep, what Alison said. I hope this is the end of lumpy elbows!!!
Posted by: Woodreb

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 02/17/12 08:16 AM

Originally Posted By: bianca
Thank you so much for thinking of the little stinker, he is doing fine.

He came home from the vets looking like this:





I took the cone off that night and he didn't chew the bandage at all. I took the bandage off on Sunday and touch wood so far no lump.

They took 30 something mils of fluid out.

Thank you again hugging


Looks like Cooper needs to join the Conehead thread!

-Caleb
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 02/17/12 10:12 AM

Cooper looks so angelic in the last picture!!! Sure hope this is the end to his lumpy elbow problem.
Posted by: Natalie559

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 02/17/12 10:23 AM

He's getting so big already!
Posted by: marylou

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 02/19/12 08:00 PM

When Misha had surgery on her elbows, I put a long sleeved T-Shirt on her. It helped keep her from licking, and helped keep the stitches clean.
Good luck with your boy - he is very handsome!
Posted by: bianca

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 02/20/12 04:14 AM

Thank you all so much! Still no lump party

Caleb - oh good idea thanks, your friend Cooper!

Marylou - that is a great idea, I hope I don't have a next time to try it, thanks!
Posted by: Kayos

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 02/20/12 08:45 AM

He is darling! Poor guy. I too hope lumpy elbows are gone for good.
Posted by: Barb E

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 02/20/12 09:55 AM

*Waving my lump no more wand*
Posted by: AgilePaws

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 02/22/12 01:19 PM

Just catching up on this thread now. Hope Cooper heals up quickly and this is the end of it! hugging
Posted by: bianca

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 02/23/12 02:40 AM

Thank you ladies, all your thoughts and lump no more wand must be working!
Posted by: Woodreb

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 02/23/12 08:56 AM

Hooray for no more lumpy elbows happyboogie groovy
Posted by: bianca

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 04/10/12 03:10 AM

Update : Cooper is going in tomorrow to be sedated and have both elbows drained again. His right his far worse but the left has some fluid on it too.

I don't particularly want to do this now but we will be moving in less than 2 weeks and I will have to find a vet I am comfortable with down there.



Right



Left



So any spare good thoughts would be appreciated please smile
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 04/10/12 03:13 AM

Oh no, this is not good frown

Does the vet have an explanation for why this is happening? Is it inflammation?
Posted by: bianca

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 04/10/12 03:25 AM

Lisa, to be honest I didn't even speak to him today. I just called and spoke to the receptionist and told her I wanted him booked in for draining like last time. They only do routine surgeries on Wednesday.

I will talk to him either when I drop him off or pick him up.

frown
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 04/10/12 04:25 AM

I am concerned that the vaccination might have triggered a persistent inflammatory process and the body is responding in this way. Or maybe that timing is just coincidence.

I don't recall, was the fluid cultured last time? If not, I wonder if that is something that might be helpful at all.
Posted by: bianca

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 04/10/12 04:40 AM

Thank you.

Yes the fluid was sent away and nothing showed. I just don't know what to do/think. It doesn't bother him at all but I don't want this to keep happenng every few months.

Maybe our future vet will have a fresh perspective. I did get a letter back from the government veterinary agency regarding his vac reaction. They basically said they have recorded it as a minor reaction.
Posted by: JeanKBBMMMAAN

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 04/10/12 08:00 AM

Has he been x-rayed?
Posted by: bianca

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 04/10/12 08:16 AM

Jean no he hasn't. Do you think it would be advisable to get that done while he is under? At 6 months of age, should I just try and get elbows done, ie: not worry about hips?
Posted by: JeanKBBMMMAAN

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 04/10/12 08:53 AM

I would if he's going to be under - now, my one vet said elbow xrays won't show much young if they aren't symptomatic, but I don't know about that...me with my no training and education and him being a doctor of 30 years. rofl http://pets.webmd.com/dogs/elbow-dysplasia-dogs

But hips you can get an idea - for me, if I ever do xrays on an adult dog again, I am going to have them do hips, back and elbows and just get it done with. Not sure if back would be anything for a baby. Hips, I believe you can get an idea if there is anything really bad (like poor Rosa) or mild (like Rocco).

In short, I have no idea, but would probably do it if the vet would go along with it. And the reason I am thinking of it is because I was reading stuff on ED from a post on .com - but do not know if when they are talking about swelling in those articles if fluid is included in this. There was a Great Dane puppy with problems in his shoulder (OCD) that had a big lump - but like I said, if it's fluid...is this even the same type of thing????
Posted by: LukesMom

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 04/10/12 09:06 AM

Poor Cooper, I hope you can find out why this is happening.
Posted by: bianca

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 04/10/12 09:12 AM

Thank you very much Jean :)He shows no signs of discomfort or limping and it certainly does not slow him down in any way, shape or form.

But what the heck, in for a penny, in for a pound...I'll just spend the house sale proceeds before I have them lol! (Brad will kill me laugh)

I will check and assuming he has time to do them, will ask for elbows and hips. I do know when I asked in the past they are not certified for OFA or whatever it is here.
Posted by: bianca

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 04/10/12 09:16 AM

Thank you Linda hugging The upside is that they don't bother him! I just have another lemon with a golf ball on his elbow rofl
Posted by: Qyn

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 04/10/12 09:30 AM

Sorry to read this Bianca. Just as an aside sometimes UAP (a form of ED) is asymptomatic but if it is present the 6 month age is the time that the best outcome for repair is available so I think the X-rays are a good idea. Are both dogs insured? I don't know if there is a waiting period but it might be worth considering. Woolworths also insures dogs.
Posted by: weplaytowin

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 04/10/12 09:31 AM

Poor Cooper! frown Hopefully you can get to the bottom of this soon!
Posted by: Barb E

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 04/10/12 09:39 AM

Ditto Sacha hugging
Posted by: bianca

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 04/10/12 09:44 AM

Thank you all ladies, I appreciate it hugging

Alison yes they are, although both have exclusions frown I *think* I may be able to get elbow xrays covered as he has already been accepted and paid out for the last lot.

I think wht you mentioned may be what Basha had? I know he had surgery at a very early age.
Posted by: Good_Karma

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 04/10/12 05:32 PM

I like the idea of getting an x-ray done. Maybe he's just got a high pain tolerance and there is something going on in there after all.

Hope the pet insurance covers you on this one!
Posted by: bianca

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 04/10/12 06:38 PM

Thank you Leah smile

Ijust dropped him off. They will do elbow x-rays (although not digital so I will have to take a photo of them to post). He said he is going to phone a specialist today to ask as well (Ortho).
Posted by: bianca

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 04/10/12 09:12 PM

I had asked the vet to check Coopies teeth as I thought he still had a puppy canine. The nurse just called and spoke to Brad asking permission to remove it. He didn't think to ask about his elbows headbang Although he did say they better keep his tooth for me (I've only found one!) laugh
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 04/10/12 10:24 PM

I'm not sure whether to hope that they find something or not on the elbows!

I would not say that this is a mild reaction frown

I hope they keep the tooth!
Posted by: bianca

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 04/11/12 03:18 AM

Thank you Lisa, I did get the tooth! laugh Now I have to let Barb know I have two!!!

Well he drained 35mls from the right and 10mls from the left. We are trying no compression bandaging this time.

The fluid is being sent away for cytology - hopefully get the results back by Friday.

He said to him the x-rays look fine, I forgot to take my camera so he will take some pics for me tomorrow (will post when I get them).

He is waiting until the test result come back and then will send that and the x-rays to a specialist for a consult.

I asked him what he thought. He said yes the first time it happened it could have been from a hard knock but this time with both elbows it is odd.

The breeder commented on my fb photo of his elbow and she seems to think it is from him lying on the tiles.

He does do this but spends most of his time on any one of the numerous soft beds.

So I really don't know. I kind of hope the fluid shows something. frown


Oh and his lower canines are not quite in the right position, he said he hopes and thinks that as they grow they will push out more.






Posted by: bianca

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 04/11/12 03:36 AM

You can kind of see his teeth in this one (from last week)

Posted by: Good_Karma

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 04/11/12 06:54 AM

I know every dog is different, but Niko has always preferred laying on the cement floors to laying on a carpet or bed. So I don't buy the idea that the lumps come from that. I could see a callus, but not that severe inflammation.

It sounds like your vet agrees that something else is going on. That's encouraging. Hopefully you'll get this figured out soon.
Posted by: Woodreb

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 04/11/12 08:10 AM

And Caleb and Ciara lay on the tile floor in our kitchen without any issues like this.

Hope Cooper gets better soon and you can find out what is going on.

P.S. I love that last shot of his smiley face.
Posted by: bianca

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 04/11/12 08:45 AM

Thank you both smile Molly also flops on the floor and never had this????

A lady here with Borzoi(s) had her pup with similar 'eggs' at a young age and after draining them repeatedly she bought these

http://www.dogleggs.com/adjustable/

Any thoughts? I hadn't want to buy them after the first time as he is still growing and who knows how big he will end up.

But regardless I won't do anything until I get results back.
Posted by: JeanKBBMMMAAN

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 04/11/12 09:28 AM

How could a puppy have 2 giant hygroma type/bursitis things?!?!? Bianca are you hitting his elbow with a hammer again? Because that's not what you should be doing. wink So I googled fluid elbow pupppy and that is what keeps coming up. And, well, sounds "normal"? This I think is an older book, but: http://books.google.com/books?id=m2ftfPM...ppy&f=false

Still seems weird. And weird to think of getting the dogleggs for a puppy. But, who knows!

I would try to not "let" him lay on hard surfaces - for a trial period, and how would I do that, I am not sure, but would probably involve an x-pen if he would stay in it, with a bunch of soft blankets/beds.

I love his silly teefers face!
Posted by: bianca

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 04/12/12 04:39 AM

rofl Jean, you got me!!!! What's that saying that everytime a puppy does something wrong, grab a hammer and hit yourself/puppy on the elbow!!!!!!!!!

Thank you very much for the link, I think that is probably all he has, nothing more sinister as I got the results back from the lab.

Haven't received the copies of his xrays yet but the vet did say he will send both to the specialist.



Eeeek, I'm useless at this, not sure how to make it bigger.



Posted by: Good_Karma

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 04/12/12 07:00 AM

I just clicked on the pic and it got bigger for me. So it sounds like it is just an injury?? No sign of infection, that's good!
Posted by: bianca

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 04/12/12 08:02 AM

Thanks Leah, yes it appears that way.

I am thinking of a way to make some elbow pads with neoprene. Brad won't let me hack up his wetsuit (not that he will ever use it again!) so I might take to mine with scissors. I figure something with velcro (adjustable) and if need be a back strap like the dogleggs.

Hmmm maybe I should buy some hot pink neoprene laugh
Posted by: Natalie559

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 04/12/12 09:24 AM

Sorry Cooper is having problems again! Hope you get it figured out soon- definitely not normal or just from the floor as speculated. On the up side- he is so good looking, even with lumpy elbows!
Posted by: Good_Karma

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 04/12/12 11:39 AM

You could buy a beer cozy! Cooper would be stylin. smile
Posted by: bianca

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 04/13/12 05:56 AM

Thank you Natalie smile Lol Leah!

Vet is going to call me tomorrow, he has spoken to the specialist. I am expecting to hear there is nothing out of the ordinary...
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 04/13/12 11:17 AM

Cooper is so adorable, I get distracted by his darling face from looking at his eggs.

I think that you should get those fabulous black rubber tiles like they have in airports for the kitchen/den in your new house-something soft for Coop (and Miss Moo) to rest on.

healing thoughts going round the world,
MJ
Posted by: bianca

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 04/13/12 11:19 PM

Oh thank you Mary Jane hugging

I think the cottage we are renting for a few months has vinyl and carpet so perhaps that will help.

I spoke to the vet today, he has had 2 surgeons (?) look at the info.

The x-rays look pretty good.
The fluid is not coming from the joint(s).
This can happen to some dogs for no specific reason.

There is an option where under general anesthetic they will open up the hygroma and using a scalpel will irritate the tissue and put internal stitches in to pull it back. The idea is it stimulates the currently smooth walls to reattach.

They will then put in drains and pressure bandage for 2 weeks. Apparently they have in the past used super glue to keep the bandages on!

So I am not wanting to go down that track unless I absolutely have to.

I will just wait and see how he does in the next little while and try to come up with some home-made elbow padding.
Posted by: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 04/13/12 11:54 PM

Bianca, I hope Copper out grows this, I wouldn't go with an option where they superglue the bandage on either unless it was my last option.

I have tried to wrap Cheyenne's elbow, not a pressure wrap, just a wrap so she wouldn't lick it so I know some of the problems. Reading your post got me to thinking about options, I have some thing in my brain, I will try to make a diagram (I suck at those) to give you an idea what I am thinking. I might have two options. You need some thing to keep the padding from slipping down, that is the biggest problem to solve, the padding part will be the easy part.
Posted by: bianca

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 04/14/12 04:06 AM

Oh wow thank you so much for any ideas Val smile I really appreciate it!

I think I could make something with velcro and then attach a strap over his shoulders to keep the elbow part in place. It would only need to be on when he is sleeping.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 04/14/12 04:55 AM

I do agree with Jean, I wouldn't "let him" sleep on the tile for awhile. Good thing it's not the hot summer, so laying on a soft bed shouldn't be too horrible smile

So, the fluid is not coming from the joints? I wonder if this is describing the process of what is going on: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olecranon_bursitis But I think bursitis usually has inflammation of the bursa, and I would think that the fluid would show that inflammation? Maybe if the bursa is inflamed, it increases the fluid production without showing inflammatory markers? Haven't a clue, just thinking out loud!

Those elbow supports are quite the contraption, but I can see that it would be hard to keep on the elbow. This page also has an elbow icer: http://www.canineicer.com/order/product/index.htm

I still say it's very weird about the timing after the vaccination. The report, no inflammation, but eosinohpilic stuff .... eosinophils are often allergic markers. I strongly suspect that the vaccination kicked off a process in the body. If the hard floors have anything to do with this, whatever process is going on, I suspect that it has made the area more susceptible to trauma.

If I were to try any supportive care, thinking that this is vaccine related, I would do the following....I would give Jarrow's True CMO at a very aggressive dose to reset the immune cells in the body that may have been altered by the vaccination (3 pills twice a day). I would give some bioflavanoids to support the allergic response, and maybe I would try icing one or both of the elbows (one if you want to use the other for control about the icing). These are the products I have in mind:

http://www.iherb.com/Jarrow-Formulas-True-CMO-380-mg-60-Capsules/118
http://www.iherb.com/Now-Foods-Citrus-Bioflavonoids-250-Capsules/440

The CMO is a bit pricey at that dose, but that was the thing that was critical in managing Indy's vaccine induced disease process. After a couple of bottles, I would do a couple of bottles of 3 pills once a day, and then taper down from there. This would not be a forever supplement.

I will be interested in hearing what the ortho guy says!

Posted by: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 04/14/12 10:17 AM

Bianca, here is my thoughts.

Start with a harness, on the side roughly figure out where you want to attach the elbow padding, needs to be higher than the elbow to hold it up. I am thinking getting some small grommets in the harness so it doesn't start to come apart. I think the harness would be better than just a strap because it won't turn or slide as easily.


Now the elbow padding. I liked the shape of the "Ace" Elbow support.


It will give plenty of room for padding and growth. I would also put some grommets in the top of the support. You can wrap the padding material into the support so it doesn't slide out.

Attach the elbow band to the harness. I think you need the grommets to keep things in place and not slide. Keeping it in place was the most difficult part of this. I tried using the collar as a point, but over night or from moving it slipped down to the front.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 04/14/12 12:57 PM

Val, that sounds like it would work fine! Great idea smile
Posted by: bianca

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 04/15/12 04:03 AM

Thank you Lisa for taking the time to write that up. I will order both those items as soon as we move, don't want to muck around with shipping addys now. Thank you hugging

Val, that is an awesome idea, thank you so very much hugging I have an easy walk harness here so can try with that (I want to order another harness for biking Molly soon).

I'll go have a browse tomorrow and see if I can find some similar elbow supports here! I will post photo's when I work it out! Thank you so very much, I and my wallet appreciate it hugging smile
Posted by: bianca

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 04/17/12 03:25 AM

Crap, his right elbow has fluid on it again frown

I haven't managed to make anything as I've got 3 days left before the movers come and the elbow was fine last night. I WILL go to the chemist first thing in the morning and see what I can get.

I did try and put on a tubular stretchy bandage and he pulled it off.

Spoke to the vet (via phone) and the options, leave it, drain it, or the surgery type option.

I'm so disappointed it has only been a week tomorrow since it was drained.
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 04/17/12 10:41 AM

Bianca,

You're dealing with so much right now (I hate moving). I just hate the thought of big bubbles displacing Cooper's beautiful coat.

I don't have advice, but I do have support for you all,

take care,
MJ
Posted by: Good_Karma

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 04/17/12 07:42 PM

I was thinking about this today and what do you think would happen if you just did nothing? I mean, make him the elbow pads, but not get them drained again. If this is his body's way of protecting his elbow joints, then maybe let it happen until they heal up. Unless you think they'd just keep getting bigger and bigger. And the fact that it came back again so fast, I wonder if you are fighting a losing battle here. And surgery just seems like such an extreme solution to a problem that isn't really causing him any pain or loss of mobility. I almost think that as long as the swelling doesn't just keep increasing and becoming HUGE, maybe just let it go and see if it eventually recedes on its own???

IDK, maybe I am completely off base here. shrug
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 04/18/12 12:53 AM

It does seem like it will keep filling until you figure out what is causing this?

When it fills, does it continue to get larger and larger, or does it fill to a point and stop?

I'm so very sorry hugging
Posted by: bianca

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 04/18/12 04:00 AM

Thank you very much Mary Jane hugging

Leah, thank you. I think you are right and that's what I'm planning on doing...nothing! I just can't imagine draining it again so soon is really helping. hugging

Lisa, thank you hugging I'm really not sure of the answer to that. The first time they drained it was 30mls, the second time 35mls. And that looked huge so I don't know how big it could get.

This time it is still small (compared to before). Pics from just before.



Please excuse the mess (packing)



I bought this



but of course it slips down and my sewing machine is packed. I think he will just have to stay as is until next week if I can't figure out to attach it easily. Maybe velcro dots in the interim?
Posted by: Good_Karma

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 04/18/12 06:54 AM

I think the key to keeping the pads on is the "over the shoulder" strap. Can you just safety pin a piece of material to the elbow pad (did you just get one?), and have it go over his shoulder and attach to the second pad. Or if you just got one, you'd have to go under his other armpit and around and back over his shoulders. Kind of like suspenders.

You could do a quick and dirty job of sewing it with just a needle and thread if you can dig one out easily from your packing.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 04/20/12 02:27 AM

I still might try icing one of the elbows twice a day?
Posted by: bianca

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 04/20/12 06:50 AM

Thank you both. Leah I will have to try something but strangely today it seems a little better?

Lisa, I have no luck as according to Cooper, ice is for eating. When we arrive, I will try a cold pack not filled with ice!
Posted by: Good_Karma

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 04/20/12 06:59 AM

Oh great news!!!! groovy
Posted by: kaisersmom

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 04/20/12 11:30 AM

I think I'd just leave them alone too - unless of course they got so large that he was having trouble walking or if they seemed to start bothering him.

Here I go with my "in people" thing again - but in humans, some people just seem to have chronic bursitis and they have these fluid collections on their elbows that never seem to change. I used to work with a guy like that - he had fluid collections on both elbows that looked weird, but never changed, and didn't bother him a bit. Maybe it's the same for Cooper!
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 04/21/12 01:08 AM

Pat, do you know if, in bursitis, the fluid would show inflammatory cells?
Posted by: kaisersmom

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 04/21/12 11:15 PM

Quote:
Pat, do you know if, in bursitis, the fluid would show inflammatory cells?


I really don't know the answer to that one. I would think with chronic bursitis the fluid would be less likely to show any inflammatory changes than with a more acute inflammation. Then there is bursitis caused from gout and infection, which would show more inflammatory changes as well as other cells.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 04/21/12 11:56 PM

I wish the fluid culture would have given us more of a clue frown
Posted by: bianca

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 04/25/12 08:47 AM

Thank you Pat and Lisa. The good news is that it's cold down here so Coopie is constantly lying on the beds! His elbows looked good this arvy!

Thank you for the info, I really appreciate it and hope that it is nothing to worry about.
Posted by: Good_Karma

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 04/25/12 11:06 AM

Excellent news!
Posted by: Woodreb

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 04/25/12 12:27 PM

groovy thumbup
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 04/26/12 12:43 AM

crossedfingers

smile
Posted by: bianca

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 04/26/12 08:25 AM

Thank you!
Posted by: Qyn

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 04/26/12 10:07 AM

Good news for C's elbows, Bianca. Maybe Cooper will have to stay in Vic if you do move back but I hope you are here for at least a while yet!
Posted by: bianca

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 05/08/12 09:03 AM

Sorry Alison, I hadn't seen this until now. I was just coming to update that his right elbow was big yesterday and today it is even bigger frown Bugger. So I'm guessing it's not (just) from lying on the tiles.
Posted by: bianca

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 05/08/12 09:06 AM


Posted by: Qyn

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 05/08/12 09:30 AM

Aww Bianca, I was hoping if it wasn't the tile then it might be temperature dependant - like some peoples ankles swell in the heat (despite your house being air-conditioned) but wishes don't always produce results. There is still time for him to outgrow this so here's hoping. crossedfingers
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 05/08/12 09:49 AM

I'm so sorry he's still having troubles.

I believe that this is immune mediated, triggered by the vaccination. Still wonder a slight bit about underlying infection, but in any event, immune mediated.

frown
Posted by: Barb E

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 05/08/12 10:00 AM

Well hells bells
frown
hugging
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 05/08/12 10:05 AM

Sorry to hear this..nothing should spoil this beautiful terror.

They looked at the cells in the fluid before and I seem to remember they were consistent with a few things. Maybe it would be more definitive now..

anyway, all the best,

MJ
Posted by: Good_Karma

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 05/08/12 11:56 AM

So will you just let it go for a while before deciding to drain them again? Seems like it's just a cycle where they are just going to keep blowing up. frown

Whatever you decide, I hope that you get to the bottom of the mystery. It sure is frustrating to have a problem that seems like it can't be solved. frown
Posted by: bianca

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 05/09/12 08:19 AM

Thank you all. I was so upset to see it swell up again but he is not bothered by it. I am just going to leave it for now. Both times they have checked the fluid and there was no infection.

So I do tend to agree (Lisa) that this must be related to the vaccine. I really don't know frown
Posted by: bianca

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 05/12/12 07:14 AM

Update, I am going to make an appointment with a new vet for Monday to have it drained as it is bigger than it's ever been frown

pics from about 10 mins ago.



Posted by: Good_Karma

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 05/12/12 07:57 AM

frown This sucks. thumbdown

I'm sorry Bianca, this is just a bummer. hugging
Posted by: Braverhund

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 05/12/12 08:06 AM

Sending good thoughts that this is easily remedied. May his youth be on his side, and may the vet be very helpful and skilled!
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 05/12/12 02:12 PM

I hope the new vet can get to the bottom of this. It must be such a worry for you. I would be constantly looking at it, feeling it, checking it.

May this soon be a worry of the past. hugging
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 05/12/12 11:49 PM

You really need to find a way to address the ongoing immune response. I would try the CMO, and possibly abx.
Posted by: bianca

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 05/13/12 07:26 AM

Thank you all so very much hugging

Lisa, with all the move business I had completely forgotten I was going to order those supplements you had suggested. I will do it first thing in the morning. Thank you!

When he first had the vaccine reaction, Annie kindly told me what homeopathic remedies to give him, Thuja, Sulpher and one other that I can't recall at the moment. So he did have that therapy.

Will update once I have a vet apptment.
Posted by: Qyn

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 05/13/12 10:37 AM

I hope the new vet can find a successful remedy. crossedfingers
Posted by: bianca

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 05/13/12 08:42 PM

Thank you Alison hugging

I have just left him at the vet for sedation and draining. The vet said if we don't drain it with the now size, it will burst and then there can be infection issues. He seems to think that Coop will continue to have problems and that the fluid will appear shortly after this draining.

He is going to read up on the latest treatment but thinks he may have to go to Melbourne (specialist) for surgery.

He said as to why this is happening, it's one of those things but once they start they will usually cause ongoing issues.

Will update tonight once he's home.
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 05/13/12 09:54 PM

Not what I wanted to read....

Bianca, you are on top of this, along with all the things that need to be done in your new home.

Your gorgeous Gremlin will get out of this bumpy phase, all fingers crossed.

MJ
Posted by: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 05/13/12 10:20 PM

Bianca, I am sorry to hear that Cooper"s lumpy elbows haven't improved.

I was thinking that maybe a surgery to remove the pocket, check the elbows to make sure there is nothing that is causing the pocket and then to fill with fluid.

Then I would look into immune stuff. I hope you can find some relief for Copper and your purse.
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 05/13/12 11:28 PM

Hi Bianca,

Ack--I think I totally missed this. I am so sorry about your baby boy, Cooper. feelingblue

This is really puzzling and I will put my thinking cap on (although I doubt I can come up with anything that hasn't already been mentioned).

Big hugs going out to you!
Posted by: Good_Karma

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 05/14/12 07:06 AM

headbang Really????? An ongoing thing? thumbdown Ugh, why why why??????

Do you think you'll see the specialist in Melbourne? I hope your new vet will be able to help Cooper.

hugging I know this is neither the news you wanted to hear, nor the best timing.
Posted by: JeanKBBMMMAAN

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 05/14/12 07:08 AM

Wow, those articles on the whole fluid elbow make it seem much simpler. frown Apparently, Cooper is exceptional.
Posted by: bianca

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 05/14/12 08:00 AM

Thank you all again so very much hugging It really helps to have this sounding board smile (So to speak!)

Well knock me over with a feather, this time they drained 95mls. 95mls!!!!! frown Poor puppy.

The fluid looked dark and bloody so he sent it out for testing and we will hopefully get the results tomorrow. He also said that it wasn't like a balloon where all the fluid was in one spot, there were (are) pockets inside which were full.

He is on abx (Clavubactin).

If this doesn't stop it from coming back, then the next time he will insert 3 drains and leave them for about 2 weeks. I will have to take him in every 2 days so they can change bandages etc (which isn't a problem).




Then if that doesn't change anything, he thinks I should take him to see the specialist for surgery, which I will do.

Oh and he also said a true compression bandage would need to be down over his paw as the fluid would drain into that and fill it. So this bandage is almost off already (can remove it tomorrow anyway).
Posted by: Qyn

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 05/14/12 08:02 AM

I'm hoping this will be something that will just stop happening as Cooper ages - some dogs apparently do grow out of it.please

I am confused about what the vet said too as, while a lump like this could ulcerate over time if there was continual trauma and growth, I find it hard to believe it would burst shrug - I have not read that as an issue anywhere and hope it was not a ploy to get you to agree to the procedure today. No doubt you have read a lot about this as I have too since this happened to Cooper.hugging It just shows that there are lots of things that we still don't know enough about. I'm thinking of you and wishing this was not happening, time and time again. hugging

ETA: Sorry, I was typing this while you were posting.
Posted by: Qyn

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 05/14/12 08:06 AM

Why is a compression bandage needed Bianca - did he say?
Posted by: bianca

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 05/14/12 08:07 AM

Thank you Alison hugging

I don't know but my gut feeling is the vet was genuine in his belief. I rang up to say I wanted it drained and when I met the vet I said that's what I wanted done. I didn't think it could burst either, but then the size of it...well I guess it could 'leak'?
Posted by: bianca

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 05/14/12 08:08 AM

Oh no he said he wasn't needed, I asked if we should do that! Sorry, I'm not very clear! I think my brain goes faster than my typing...or maybe it is slower rofl
Posted by: Qyn

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 05/14/12 08:36 AM

Bianca, you have more on your plate everyday than most have in a lifetime so I think your brain works more than fine! goodjob
Posted by: Natalie559

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 05/14/12 09:13 AM

I'm sorry Cooper is continuing to have issues with his elbow! I hope you find some answers soon.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 05/15/12 01:41 AM

I sure hope that something shows up in the lab report this time crossedfingers
Posted by: Good_Karma

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 05/15/12 06:58 AM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
I sure hope that something shows up in the lab report this time crossedfingers


Me too. hugging
Posted by: bianca

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 05/15/12 08:09 AM

Thank you. Well the crappy news is it is filling with fluid already frown

Thursday morning he goes in to have mulitple drains inserted and they will stay in for between 2-3 weeks.

The results came back and showed inflammatory cells this time. I will ask for a copy and post on Thurs.

Pic from tonights dinner.

Posted by: Qyn

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 05/15/12 08:20 AM

It certainly looks like it is getting bigger each time whether that is the effect of the elbow being shaved (or not?) I don't know. hugging not that hugging will help but at least you know I am thinking of you. butterfly
Posted by: Barb E

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 05/15/12 10:32 AM

*Sigh*
Posted by: Woodreb

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 05/15/12 12:36 PM

I don't have anything but good thoughts to add for Cooper. I'm sure this is all extremely frustrating.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 05/16/12 12:12 AM

frown I'm so sorry hugging
Posted by: JeanKBBMMMAAN

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 05/16/12 12:25 AM

Originally Posted By: JeanKBBMMMAAN
So I googled fluid elbow pupppy and that is what keeps coming up. And, well, sounds "normal"? This I think is an older book, but: http://books.google.com/books?id=m2ftfPM...ppy&f=false

Still seems weird. And weird to think of getting the dogleggs for a puppy. But, who knows!



Old link, but thought people would like to look at it...

My gosh.

No idea - there is a post from the dog legg people - are they...able to say for sure what is best...I don't know but just thought you'd want to see it:
http://www.scratchingsandsniffings.com/2009/05/elbow-hygroma.html

http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&A=2491&S=1

He's a cutie pie. hugging

Posted by: Good_Karma

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 05/16/12 07:08 AM

grouphug No fun at all. frown
Posted by: bianca

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 05/16/12 07:51 AM

Thank you all again hugging

Thank you for the links Jean smile I did a double take when I opened the last one...it didn't look like an elbow laugh
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 05/16/12 09:00 AM

I'm so sorry that you still don't have the solution for Cooper's egg.

I shouldn't be so superficial, but he's so adorable it does add insult to injury.

more good thoughts for you both,
MJ
Posted by: JeanKBBMMMAAN

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 05/16/12 09:05 AM

rofl

OMG. Well, then. Hope that a little levity helped. Unintentional!
Posted by: Good_Karma

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 05/16/12 11:41 AM

Originally Posted By: bianca
Thank you all again hugging

Thank you for the links Jean smile I did a double take when I opened the last one...it didn't look like an elbow laugh



spitcoffee rofl rofl2 Not it does NOT. laugh
Posted by: bianca

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 05/17/12 07:31 AM

Well my little lemon came out of the vets with lemon coloured wrap rofl





They put three drains in and I take him back him tomorrow afternoon and then Monday for dressing changes. Then I will try and do it myself at home.

The vet feels quietly confident that this may finally put an end to it.

Poor boy was whinging and whining all afternoon so I gave him some Metacalm with dinner and he is more settled now. He also has the worst gas frown He is on probiotics and I've been giving him charcoal tablets as it's unbearable in this little cottage.

The vet did say that some dogs get upset tummies from the abx so may need to change type.
Posted by: JakodaCD OA

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 05/17/12 07:33 AM

awwww poor Cooper! but he looks quite fashionable in that bright yellow bandage!

Hope this takes care of it,,he's so handsome:)
Posted by: Good_Karma

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 05/17/12 11:37 AM

Oh wow, can he walk with that thing on?? It's HUGE!

He's such a good boy wub with all the vet trips and moving and so on. Gosh, what a trooper!!! I sure hope your vet is right and that this will finally put an end to his ordeal. crossedfingers
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 05/17/12 12:39 PM

wub hugging hugging Cooper hugging hugging wub
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 05/17/12 12:56 PM

Ouch, that looks tight and uncomfortable. frown Poor Cooper.

I hope this takes care of it. If not, any acupuncturists nearby? I once had terrible fluid build up on my ankle and had all kinds of tests that were inconclusive. I had a housemate at the time who was an acupuncturist and she stuck some needles in my ankle and the fluid disappeared!

And I'm sure you know it but don't give the charcoal too close to the antibiotics as it is an absorbent.
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 05/17/12 05:39 PM

Cooper, your lemon yellow bandage is very pretty, but I hope you won't need it long.

Hoping this is the end of lumpy elbows.
Posted by: Woodreb

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 05/17/12 08:47 PM

Cooper - it does look like you are carrying a lemon around on your arm. Poor guy - feel better soon.

(Ciara sends a slurpy kiss for her counterpart down-under.)
Posted by: bianca

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 05/18/12 06:21 AM

Thank you all smile

He could walk around just fine with it on, and it also didn't stop him from trying to dig this morning!!!

Thank you Ruth, I will ask about an acu, I have no idea if there are any here (it's just a small farming town). Thank you for the reminder about the Charcoal too.

Todays bandage or stocking!




He goes back on Monday for another check and dressing change. I'm not sure that after that I will be able to do it myself as it took the vet, vet nurse and me today.
Posted by: bianca

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 05/19/12 06:43 AM

*sigh* the dressing has slipped down and is only just covering his elbow. But what is concerning us is that they shaved under his arm and it is all red and swollen and irritated from the sticky dressing.

Does anybody have any ideas what I could do please? It's Sat night here and he is due back at the vets Mon morning. I don't know what I can put on it, if anything at all frown
Posted by: JeanKBBMMMAAN

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 05/19/12 08:25 AM

frown I don't know - I am thinking ice it - with a pad around the ice so that it's not direct - to help with the swelling? Wipe it down with what? Witch Hazel? Do not listen to me, I am just kind of bumping this up with potentially bad advice so that others will jump in with good...

Geez, that stinks. I know that dogs do get shaving burns and that is normal, but I still freak out every time I see it.
Posted by: Qyn

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 05/19/12 08:49 AM

Sorry to read this Bianca. I think they should have put gauze next to the skin for under a sticky dressing. Witchhazel (as Jean suggested) will not hurt and should help soothe the area, you just don't want it to be wet under a dressing so make sure it is dry before rewrapping - nappy rash powder also can help but just don't use too much. The swelling could be from the fluid or could be from wrapping too tight - this time the bandaging does look like a compression bandage. Otherwise, I don't want to suggest too much in fear of making it worse.
Posted by: Good_Karma

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 05/19/12 12:36 PM

I get those red bumps too when I am in skin contact with adhesive bandages. Could it be allergy?

Ugh, hope that it doesn't worsen before you can get him to the vet. frown
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 05/19/12 01:54 PM

That sounds like an allergic reaction: I get the same thing!

Do you have calendula cream? That would be my first choice.

Oh--coconut oil!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is very soothing.

Aloe works too but the if you have either of the above I would go with those plus aloe (use separately).
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 05/19/12 08:17 PM

I'm allergic to adhesive/surgical tape too ... I know they make allergy free tape but don't know the brand name.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 05/20/12 01:15 AM

I was going to say aloe.

hugging
Posted by: bianca

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 05/20/12 06:08 AM

Thank you all so much hugging They did put a kind of soft wadding (I think thats the word) under the bandage but this is from the part where the sticky elastoplast tape was on the skin to stop it slipping. I think it may also be from having the tape removed twice already frown

The good news is it looks much better today already. I don't have anything mentioned to put on it and will have to wait for the shops to reopen tomorrow (nothing much open here on Sunday).

I take him in tomorrow morning to see the vet again and I am going to ask that we change the way it is done. I think using the sterile swaps over the drains, and then the bandage and then the vet wrap under and over his back may work. So no adhesive needed hopefully!

Thank you all again, I was just a but upset when I looked at it last night hugging
Posted by: JakodaCD OA

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 05/20/12 07:14 AM

glad it's looking better, but I would guess it's a reaction to the tape as well.

When my aussie was little and her ears weren't staying down, the breeder taped them, after a couple days, I was smelling a bad smell, took the tape off, omg, she was having a reaction and boy was it nasty:(((( So it's a good thing you caught it early, and can get 'something' to put on it, air is probably the best thing to.
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 05/20/12 09:48 AM

Bianca,

I'm very glad that Cooper's skin is calming a bit.

He is such a good, good boy through all of this.

I really hope that you get the service you want from the vet Monday and that this is the beginning of the end of Cooper's lumps.

MJ
Posted by: bianca

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 05/21/12 08:11 AM

Thank you Diane and Mary Jane!

He really is a good boy wub He was so excited walking into the vets this morning but then when it came time to change the dressing...well I've never seen him so stressed. Poor little thing was trying to hide under the chairs frown

Anywhoo, she (different vet) put some Neocort under his arm and I have some at home so will apply daily. She listened to me and did kind of what I wanted in regards to bandaging it. But the wadding has already slipped down below his elbow. I will change it in the morning and to be honest I think I may be able to do a better job.

Todays fashionable colour



Posted by: Braverhund

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 05/21/12 08:34 AM

Isn't Cooper gorgeous-- and fashionable in his orange wrap! wub Sending many positive vibes for Cooper to feel better soon, with happy elbows! fetch
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 05/21/12 09:29 AM

grouphug Poor Cooper, so sorry he was stressed out at the vet's, the little guy's been thru so much in his short life. He looks very handsome in his new organe bandage!!!

Please give him some extra hugs, love wub and treats from the Hooligans and me!!!
Posted by: LukesMom

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 05/21/12 10:02 AM

Oh my goodness, poor Cooper. I hope this procedure finally works and he can just get back to being a happy healthy young boy.
Posted by: shepnterrier

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 05/21/12 10:35 AM

I am just seeing this thread for the first time. Where have I been? Anyhow, have you perhaps contacted the people who make the DogLeggs for dogs with hygroma?

I posted the DogLeggs in the senior section a while ago, and several people in this thread mentioned them, too. They truly keep the padding/bandaging in place, provide effective cushioning no matter where the dog lies down, and are comfortable for the dog to wear:

http://germanshepherdhome.net/forum/ubbt...lat/fpart/3/q/1

Originally Posted By: shepnterrier
If your dog has pressure sores, decubital ulcer, hygroma etc on the elbows:

http://www.dogleggs.com/files/Adjustable.cfm
http://www.dogleggs.com/products/
http://www.dogleggs.com/

The dogleggs stay on because they bridge the withers, similar to a backpack.

When Feli in her last year developed a pressure sore on one elbow from favoring one side, this was the solution. Worked beautifully, and the pressure sore quickly healed.

... Many dog beds do not cushion adequately at points of high pressure such as elbows. I now try the beds myself by pressuring down the tip of my hand and my elbow. ...

I found the customer service very knowledgeable and patient. Feli's DogLeggs were made and shipped immediately to relieve her pain, and they quickly gave her relief and solved the problem.

Hope adorable Cooper gets better soon.
Posted by: cassadee7

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 05/21/12 12:39 PM

I am just seeing it for the first time too! Wow, poor Cooper and poor you> this has been going on for a long time. I hope you get resolution soon! I don't know anything about this medical stuff but I was going to suggest rubbing coconut oil on the irritated skin. That stuff is like a miracle for healing skin (on dogs and people!) so if the Neocort isn't helping, maybe try coconut oil.
Posted by: bianca

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 05/22/12 05:37 AM

Thank you all so very much hugging I am beyond stressed not being able to keep the bandage in place.

Just started a new thread asking for tips.

http://germanshepherdhome.net/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/231933/Help_How_do_I_bandage_an_elbow

Sarah, thank you I am going to order the Dogleggs. I had totally forgotten about them. Initially I didn't think he needed them and also as he is still growing...but over $2000 later, I should have got them in the very beginning. Thank you for reminding me smile
Posted by: Qyn

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 05/22/12 10:51 AM

Could you put a cone on him and crate him so that he is confined and can't lick at the bandage? At least then it would reduce any contamination. Quynne's bandage came off her rear leg too - hers was leaking fluid from the incision and that made the bandage stretch and slip (distressing and frustrating) - probably the fluid draining from Coopers leg is causing this too. I think you have done a great job with what you have available. hugging
Posted by: bianca

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 05/23/12 06:05 AM

Thank you so much Alison, you are so lovely hugging

I posted an update here:

http://germanshepherdhome.net/forum/ubbt...n_el#Post232007
Posted by: bianca

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 06/18/12 08:20 AM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
I do agree with Jean, I wouldn't "let him" sleep on the tile for awhile. Good thing it's not the hot summer, so laying on a soft bed shouldn't be too horrible smile

So, the fluid is not coming from the joints? I wonder if this is describing the process of what is going on: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olecranon_bursitis But I think bursitis usually has inflammation of the bursa, and I would think that the fluid would show that inflammation? Maybe if the bursa is inflamed, it increases the fluid production without showing inflammatory markers? Haven't a clue, just thinking out loud!

Those elbow supports are quite the contraption, but I can see that it would be hard to keep on the elbow. This page also has an elbow icer: http://www.canineicer.com/order/product/index.htm

I still say it's very weird about the timing after the vaccination. The report, no inflammation, but eosinohpilic stuff .... eosinophils are often allergic markers. I strongly suspect that the vaccination kicked off a process in the body. If the hard floors have anything to do with this, whatever process is going on, I suspect that it has made the area more susceptible to trauma.

If I were to try any supportive care, thinking that this is vaccine related, I would do the following....I would give Jarrow's True CMO at a very aggressive dose to reset the immune cells in the body that may have been altered by the vaccination (3 pills twice a day). I would give some bioflavanoids to support the allergic response, and maybe I would try icing one or both of the elbows (one if you want to use the other for control about the icing). These are the products I have in mind:

http://www.iherb.com/Jarrow-Formulas-True-CMO-380-mg-60-Capsules/118
http://www.iherb.com/Now-Foods-Citrus-Bioflavonoids-250-Capsules/440

The CMO is a bit pricey at that dose, but that was the thing that was critical in managing Indy's vaccine induced disease process. After a couple of bottles, I would do a couple of bottles of 3 pills once a day, and then taper down from there. This would not be a forever supplement.

I will be interested in hearing what the ortho guy says!



I just wanted to update and say that the above 2 supplements arrived today finally! smile
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 06/18/12 09:25 AM

I just wanted to say that I hope that all your devotion turns into successful treatment for that beautiful puppy.

MJ
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 06/18/12 01:57 PM

bianca, I'm going to feel really bad if it doesn't help frown

Also, now having a young dog, I have a better understanding of the difficulty of making them sleep somewhere they don't want to! I do have her trained to "go to her mat" - wonder if they have those gel kitchen mats there, but I'm sure they wouldn't be big enough for your hunky boy wub
Posted by: bianca

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 06/24/12 08:43 AM

I'm sorry I haven't been back to respond.

Awww thank you Mary Jane hugging

Lisa thank you! And absolutely no need to feel bad if that's the case nono I am so grateful for all your help and ideas hugging

Cooper's elbow is staying the same and I didn't think I would be grateful to accept his lump...but it's not getting worse!

The vet called on Friday to see how he was and she thinks he will always have his 'egg' due to fibrous (sp) tissue and scarring. So if that's the case, well so be it as long as he is healthy. smile
Posted by: TMarie

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 06/24/12 10:35 AM

Bianca, I just want you to know I'm thinking of you and Cooper, that handsome boy has gone through so much for being so young. He's lucky to have you!
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 06/24/12 04:17 PM

I'm so glad that he seems to have stopped reacting to "whatever" he was reacting to. I hope that it stays non-reactive.

I wonder if that scar tissue will protect the elbow some.

Are you still using the Leggs?
Posted by: Good_Karma

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 06/24/12 06:44 PM

Just tell him to grow his hair real long at the elbow to cover it up. poke

Seriously, that's great news!
Posted by: Barb E

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 06/24/12 11:43 PM

This is good
smile
Posted by: bianca

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 06/25/12 05:36 AM

Thank you ladies hugging

Lisa, yes he is wearing them but not all the time...he likes flopping on the grass and chewing a bone/stick and they get too wet and I don't think that would be very good for him.

LOL Leah! I should ask for some of Mollys friend Basha's and superglue it in...dog hair extensions!!!!
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 07/07/12 04:49 PM

Checking up on Cooper, how is his elbow?
Posted by: bianca

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 07/08/12 06:44 AM

Awww thank you Lisa hugging No change in the lump party So maybe, just maybe the drains worked!!!
Posted by: Good_Karma

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 07/08/12 08:05 AM

FINALLY!!! groovy Maybe that lump will slowly go away completely! crossedfingers
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 07/08/12 12:47 PM

Now THIS is the news I wanted to hear! I am so relieved for you guys! I bet you thought it would never end.

Is it cooler there now?

How much of the supplements did you end up giving?
Posted by: bianca

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 07/09/12 05:34 AM

Thank you Leah and Lisa hugging

The vet seems to think he will always have the current size lump as it is scar tissue! I really didn't think the dressing saga would ever end!!!

Lisa, it is freezing here (not what you guys want to hear I know frown ) but I have the wood burner going everyday. Since we have moved, I have put three single mattresses down, 1 beside my bed, 1 in the living room and 1 close to the fire so both dogs spend almost all their time on those mattresses! We also have some carpeted areas. We have certainly gone to the dogs here laugh

I am on the third bottle of the CMO but tapering it down now. Thank you so much for the suggestions smile
Posted by: Braverhund

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 07/09/12 07:10 AM

Bianca, you are doing, and have done, a wonderful job managing Cooper's condition! He really does look well and happy now. The elbow lump isn't that noticable, anyway. I love the mattresses idea and throw-rugs for the dogs, too. I bet Moo loves the also! My last apartment had "wheelchair" carpeting, a very tiny, tight-weave, industrial carpet throughout. It was a handicap-accessible unit. Really easy to clean that and easy on the dog's elbows and hips. Coopie and Moo are so lucky to have you taking such super care of them! You really have done a fantastic job with his dressings and care. I know it hasn't been easy at all. hugging
Posted by: Qyn

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 07/09/12 08:15 AM

Originally Posted By: Braverhund
...Coopie and Moo are so lucky to have you taking such super care of them! You really have done a fantastic job with his dressings and care. I know it hasn't been easy at all. hugging


My thoughts exactly!
Posted by: kaisersmom

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 07/09/12 09:48 AM

Glad to hear the lump is staying the same!! It's been a long road! hugging
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 07/09/12 02:24 PM

Lol, I knew it was colder, but didn't realize it was freezing! Brrrrrr!

I am so glad that everything together seems to be working - an all out war on that blasted thing. I am hoping they never ever ever never return crossedfingers
Posted by: bianca

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 07/10/12 03:47 AM

Thank you all smile

Patti you are too kind hugging Interesting about the carpet,this place has new carpet in the bedrooms and living room and man does it make it hard to push the shower chair and also even just using the hoist. I'm getting muscles laugh

It really is cold here especially for us northerners, some of the mornings I have to hose the ice from the cars. I haven't done that since I left New Zealand. I think judging from the time all the four legged variety spend in front of the fire they are feeling it too.
Posted by: Qyn

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 07/10/12 04:49 AM

You Qld'ers are just soft that's all! poke hugging
Posted by: bianca

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 07/10/12 08:01 AM

Originally Posted By: Qyn
You Qld'ers are just soft that's all! poke hugging


rofl laugh hugging But so true, we are!
Posted by: bianca

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 07/22/12 04:48 AM

http://germanshepherdhome.net/forum/ubbt...bow_#Post242873

I am going to make an appointment tomorrow for his left elbow to be drained frown It is getting huge.
Not a very good shot to see
Posted by: Good_Karma

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 07/22/12 08:06 AM

Well poop. frown
Posted by: Woodreb

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 07/22/12 08:48 AM

Poor Cooper frown
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 07/22/12 09:23 AM

Cooper you are such a brave boy through all your bubbles.

I'm sorry you are all still going through this, Bianca.

Mary Jane
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 07/22/12 09:40 AM

Oh no! Poor Coop and poor you. I am so sorry that this is still happening. You have worked so hard on this problem. frown
Posted by: Barb E

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 07/22/12 11:06 AM

frown
hugging
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 07/22/12 12:20 PM

Well drat!

When you use the DogLeggs, do they go on both elbows at the same time? I wonder if you can deal with this just using pressure?
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 07/22/12 12:32 PM

grouphug Darn, I was hoping Cooper's elbow problems had been resolved!!! So sorry this has happened again!!! Sending him lots of hugs and kisses!!!
Posted by: bianca

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 07/23/12 03:27 AM

Thank you all hugging Kisses and hugs passed onto the patient!

Lisa, yes the Dogleggs work as a pair so both arms are covered. They didn't bandage it this time, as she thought the d'leggs would do a better job. (I love your new sig! Mini-mix wub )

They drained 60mls and damn it, the vet does not think this was a hematoma. She said it appeared to be the same as the other elbow and is pretty confident this will refill. So if that happens I am going to take him in for drains to be left in for 2 weeks. I won't muck around with it this time frown

Still dozey and a bit wobbly (and with the worst gas - charcoal given!) from sedation.

Posted by: Woodreb

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 07/23/12 08:26 AM

Poor Cooper - feel better soon. gsdbeggin
Posted by: kaisersmom

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 07/23/12 09:29 AM

Awww, poor Cooper! So sorry you're all going through this again frown
Posted by: bianca

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 07/24/12 04:47 AM

Thank you Johanna and Pat hugging It is already filling up again so I will make an appointment for later in the week frown He's been exceptionally whingy today (and he always whinges) frown
Posted by: Good_Karma

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 07/24/12 07:14 AM

mouthsealed <---- This is me saying naughty words on your behalf over needing drains again. CRAP!!! frown
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 07/24/12 08:36 AM

Originally Posted By: Good_Karma
mouthsealed


What Leah said.

I'm really sorry,

MJ
Posted by: Braverhund

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 07/24/12 08:40 AM

Yikes! I'm so sorry, Bianca. hugging May this be it-- drains drain out the fluid, and maybe the protective padding briefly for a short while, then he will be fine. crossedfingers You've been through so much. Wishing for healing for Cooper, and every day better and better. bloomrose
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 07/24/12 11:33 AM

Well darn it Cooper, I'm sorry you and your folks are going through this. I know you don't like it and get whiney, but your are such a good boy, and Mom will get you through this!
Posted by: bianca

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 07/25/12 04:29 AM

Thank you all again hugging

Lol Leah, thank you!!! Yep there have been lots of bad words muttered here!

He is going in tomorrow morning for the drains to be inserted. Any good thoughts for him to leave them alone for at least 14 days would be appreciated please smile
Posted by: Good_Karma

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 07/25/12 07:11 AM

please Cooper be a good boy!!!!!
Posted by: Natalie559

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 07/25/12 09:17 AM

Poor Cooper - and you!

Any thoughts on getting a second opinion as to why this is happening and continuing??
Posted by: Braverhund

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 07/25/12 09:20 AM

That is my thought, too. It isn't easy to do, but maybe finding a vet who may be able to determine if there's something in there, bone chip, etc., or if it's simply the contact with the hard flooring? Really just want you and handsome Coopie-boy to be okay and through with this! hugging
Posted by: kaisersmom

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 07/25/12 09:31 AM

This is Cooper's other elbow, isn't it? Poor guy!! frown
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 07/25/12 09:40 AM

Originally Posted By: Braverhund
Really just want you and handsome Coopie-boy to be okay and through with this! hugging


MJ
Posted by: bianca

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 07/25/12 09:49 AM

Thank you all, I really do appreciate you hugging

Pat, yes this is his left elbow this time. When this all first happened (in January?) his left had a small amount of fluid but since then it has all been the right elbow.

Natalie and Patti, thank you but he has now seen 4 or 5 vets regarding this. They all say it is one of those things and that Hygromas can be bi-lateral. So I don't think I am going to hear anything different frown

The only slight positive is that the scar tissue from the drains (right) seemed to have worked. There has been no more fluid build up on that side.

I am just dreading having to keep on and change the dressings, he would try and hide from me the last time. I am so over it and I realise that compared to so many others with serious health concerns, this is minor. But so frustrating.

And it's midnight here and I just realised he will wake me up in 6 hours and can't have his breakfast.....oh oh! I might have to hide from him in the morning laugh

ETA : And we have been in our new house for coming up 5 weeks and because it is so cold, he does not sleep on the hard flooring anymore so it can't be that causing it. He has slipped a few times, thus he now has boots but the vet on Monday said this was not a hematoma so I don't know.
Posted by: bianca

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 07/25/12 10:04 AM

Too late to edit but he has also had both elbows x-rayed and checked by 1 general vet and 2 specialists and they are fine apparently.
Posted by: Natalie559

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 07/25/12 10:29 AM

frown Well then here's to hoping this fixes the problem!
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 07/25/12 12:28 PM

grouphug Sending lots of hugs and best wishes that this will end Cooper's lumpy elbow problem once and for all!!!
Posted by: Good_Karma

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 07/25/12 05:19 PM

May these last two weeks of misery (his and yours!) be THE END OF THE STORY!!!!! crossedfingers I know how you must be dreading this, since it sucked so badly the last time. I suggest you coat yourself in bacon every time you need to change the dressing. wink
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 07/25/12 05:31 PM

I am so sorry to read that Mr Cooper has more elbow problems. I hope this side is more quickly fixed by the vet.

Hugs to you - it must be so so discouraging and upsetting for you. hugging
Posted by: bianca

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 07/26/12 03:20 AM

Thank you all very much hugging

The surgery went well and he is still wobbly and sleepy wub They put a donut thingee over the gauze but under the vet wrap. Hoping with the D'leggs he may leave it alone!

Last night

Sleepy puppy

Big donut under wrap
Posted by: Braverhund

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 07/26/12 07:04 AM

Gorgeous Coopie looks sleeeepyyyyy! wub I am hoping that after this recovery, that he does wonderfully! I imagine the donut anhd dressings will help, and him resting as much as he can will help. The DogLeggs are great, paws crossed that all the padding cushions nicely as he bounces right back from this surgery! He's so young and has the best Mum caring for him, too. goodjob
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 07/26/12 09:09 AM

Poor Cooper, just looking at his sweet face makes me want to give him a big hug and kiss on the nose. That poor little guy has been thru so much in his short life, hope this is the end of elbow problems!!!
Posted by: Woodreb

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 07/26/12 11:18 AM

Cooper, I hope you feel better soon. It's no fun having surgeries.

Your friend,

-Caleb paw
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 07/26/12 07:46 PM

I missed a bunch of updates shocked

Hopefully leaving that drain in there now might shorten the two weeks? crossedfingers

Sending "leave it" vibes to you Cooper!
Posted by: bianca

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 07/27/12 03:20 AM

Thank you Patti, Gayle, Caleb and Lisa hugging

Lisa, the vet said he needs the drains in for at least 2 weeks - maybe up to 3 frown

Well his dressings had slipped by this morning and then he started licking it. So re-bandaged and a few hours later rinse and repeat frown

So now the poor bugger is wearing a polyprop of mine (don't have anything else with long sleeves) and I am hoping that may keep everything in place a bit better.

He is less than impressed with me when he sees the bag of supplies so Leah, I may try your bacon idea! laugh

So now to totally embarrass him:

Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 07/27/12 03:27 AM

Oh Coop, only real men can wear pink wub

Bianca hugging I hope he just gives in and stops fighting. I'm all for the bacon to make it easier for the both of you!
Posted by: Qyn

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 07/27/12 03:53 AM

I've heard the saying "pretty in pink" but I think Coop would be gorgeous in whatever he wore. I really hope this puts an end to these troubles and hope the two (or three) weeks go quickly for you. Do you have an op shop nearby that you could get some spare sleeved garments?
All the best.
Posted by: Woodreb

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 07/27/12 08:24 AM

Originally Posted By: bianca
...


Oh, Cooper, I like your new look. So wish we could get together and play, but Mom says you're too far away.
We could really have fun together.
(P.S. I'm truely a "big girl", Mom says I'm in season whatever that means. So I can't go visiting anyone for a while.)

I hope you get better soon.

Your friend,

Ciara paw
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 07/27/12 09:41 AM

Ha--Cooper looks great in that shirt! Rafi could never wear that color well even though it's the color of his favorite ball. wink

I'm so sorry you are still going through this and I really hope the drains work. Sending lots of healing energy to Cooper and strength and calm to you! hugging
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 07/27/12 11:04 AM

Of course, I have no wise thoughts about Cooper's care.

I'm just sending more strong, best wishes that the drains work, the cause of the fluid accumulation is resolved, and your big boy is no longer subject to the indignity of wearing pink.

MJ
Posted by: bianca

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 07/28/12 06:05 AM

Thank you all hugging Well today he is in a much more suitable blue laugh It seems to be working!!!! I let them out to toilet this morning and when I let them back in he had everything off! But since re-dressing (literally!) everything is still intact!

Alison, that is a good idea, thank you I will have a look see at the op shops!

Ciara, I would love to play. Can you imagine all the trouble we could get into? I hope you are allowed out and about soon (that doesn't sound like much fun). paw
Posted by: bianca

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 07/31/12 03:21 AM

Well the last couple of days he has been getting so stressed when I change the dressing frown Yesterday and then today, he made a noise not quite a growl but something. He is not happy. So back to the vet tomorrow and they will sedate him (again frown ) and have a look.

He is still on abx but I think he has had enough and it must be sore frown
Posted by: Good_Karma

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 07/31/12 06:49 AM

Oh no, that's too bad. frown I wonder how that feels to have "stuff" in your elbow. Probably not good. hugging
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 07/31/12 08:07 AM

Originally Posted By: bianca
........ He is not happy. ........ it must be sore frown


Poor Coop, poor you. That gorgeous puppy is really being tried. I just hope you all get some relief, some time.

MJ
Posted by: Braverhund

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 07/31/12 08:16 AM

Sending you and Cooper lots of good vibes for healing and wellness. hugging This isn't easy for you both. May he feel better each day, and the stuff on his elbow come off soon. crossedfingers
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 07/31/12 02:51 PM

I sooooo wish this would end soon! Continued good thoughts for all of you!
Posted by: bianca

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 08/01/12 05:44 AM

Thank you all hugging

Even the vet and nurses were gushing over his wonderful temperament today! The vet said he should really hate going there by now but nope still walks in and is super excited to see them! wub

All taped up and hoping this stays on for 4 days.
Very dopey



And somebody snuck in for cuddles
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 08/01/12 06:44 AM

Aw, Coop, this sucks doesn't it? I hope you see the end of this problem soon.
Posted by: Good_Karma

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 08/01/12 07:11 AM

wub
Posted by: Qyn

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 08/01/12 10:15 AM

wub Love the cuddle snucker photo too!
Posted by: Barb E

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 08/01/12 10:43 AM

I so hope this takes care of it hugging
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 08/01/12 11:25 AM

Thinking of you guys, hoping....
Posted by: kaisersmom

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 08/01/12 11:55 AM

You've all been through so much - hopefully this does the trick! And I love the photo with his cuddle buddy! smile
Posted by: bianca

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 08/02/12 05:04 AM

Thank you all hugging He was so vocal last night poor baby frown But so far the bandage is staying on yipee!

Hopefully one more week and then he can have the drains out and we may just be at the end of this.
Posted by: Braverhund

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 08/02/12 06:28 AM

Yes! May this all be behind you and Cooper. Wishing him improvement every day! You've been through so much, and so has Coopie. Such a sweet boy. Really hoping next week's drain removal is the beginning of only good health for Cooper!
Posted by: Good_Karma

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 08/02/12 07:07 AM

Originally Posted By: bianca
Thank you all hugging He was so vocal last night poor baby frown But so far the bandage is staying on yipee!

Hopefully one more week and then he can have the drains out and we may just be at the end of this.


Ooh, hope so!!!
Posted by: Kayos

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 08/02/12 12:03 PM

I do hope you are at the end of it! Poor Cooper.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 08/02/12 02:44 PM

Originally Posted By: Good_Karma
Originally Posted By: bianca
Thank you all hugging He was so vocal last night poor baby frown But so far the bandage is staying on yipee!

Hopefully one more week and then he can have the drains out and we may just be at the end of this.


Ooh, hope so!!!

Me too!
Posted by: Qyn

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 08/03/12 02:23 AM

Me too! Me Too! Me too! Me Too! Me too! Me Too!
Posted by: bianca

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 08/03/12 02:51 AM

Thank you all! LOL Alison smile

Wonka was desexed today so we have the walking wounded recuperating...I'm thinking I should put a sign on my house (animal hospital) laugh
Posted by: bianca

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 08/08/12 07:02 AM

Cooper went again yesterday for sedation and a dressing change. It's getting more and more elaborate!

He has a rash under his arm from the tape so I am putting Neocort on it. The vet thinks the drains will have to stay in for another week and a half frown He also has another 5 days of abx.

Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 08/08/12 08:39 AM

Bianca,

I am so very sorry that you and Cooper are still contending with this elbow thing. It's strange to read about him because he's so devilishly pretty and your pictures are wonderful and the bandages look so good against his ebony coat, it's like a bandaid ad. Then, it comes back that this big puppy has been suffering for months, despite the best medical care he can get.

Lots of words to say I'm sorry and hope that he's better soon,
Mary Jane
Posted by: Woodreb

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 08/08/12 08:39 AM

Poor Cooper - I hope you are practicing your sad face so you can get plenty of treats and good stuff.

Your friend,
-Caleb paw paw
Posted by: Good_Karma

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 08/08/12 10:34 AM

Wow another week and a half?? frown Bianca I think you'll have earned your vet tech license by the time this is all over!
Posted by: bianca

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 08/09/12 02:42 AM

Thank you so much Mary Jane hugging Hey maybe I could send his pics to the company that makes the vet wrap!!!! laugh
Posted by: bianca

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 08/09/12 02:43 AM

Caleb, thank you paw

Lol Leah, almost! Yes this time the vets want to leave it in for a full 3 weeks frown
Posted by: Qyn

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 08/09/12 03:17 AM

Sorry to read this Bianca. hugging
Posted by: bianca

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 08/09/12 06:09 AM

Thank you Alison hugging

I'm going to try and get them both in first thing in the morning. Cooper especially sounds like he is really congested now.
Posted by: bianca

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 08/13/12 05:38 AM

Well great news (hopefully!), Cooper had an appointment for sedation and dressing change today. The vet decided that as the drains were a bit dirty to remove them! So everything here is crossed that this may finally be the end of the elbow dramas.

And just like last time, to finalise this, he got a 'C' on his bandage!

Feeling miserable frown

Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 08/13/12 06:58 AM

That is good news and I hope this is his last elbow bandage!

What did the vet say about his congestion and runny nose? Any better?
Posted by: Good_Karma

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 08/13/12 07:12 AM

hugging Poor Cooper!! Hope you feel better soon.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 08/13/12 10:57 AM

That is such a great expression in that picture - we should have a caption contest, so many things you could read into it.

Okay, one step closer to being done!
Posted by: DnP

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 08/13/12 01:44 PM

Oh Bianca, I'm not sure which picture of Cooper lately that has me tearing up more, this one or the lastest on on Wonka's thread!

Since I can't express mail/air mail a get well cake to him, I'm going to zoom feel better soon thoughts his way. And lots of cyber hugs your way!

I hope the latest attempt with his drains helps the poor guy and he's got that old Cooper "I'm gonna kick butt and take names later" look in his eyes again soon!
Posted by: bianca

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 08/14/12 05:28 AM

Oh thank you all so much hugging

Diana, thank you but if you could send a cake...he would have to fight me for it laugh

Bonnie, thank you. I updated the other thread but basically the two vets at the practice agreed to leave him on the doxy (that it might take longer). They tested a 'smear' and nothing too icky showed up. He doesn't have pneumonia thank goodness smile

He is still not himself but the nasal ickies are a tiny bit better today (less of them) but has a great appetite and is playing a bit more today.

Thanks all hugging
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 08/14/12 09:59 AM

I have not been on the forum much lately but wanted to jump in to say that I hope Cooper continues to feel better and that he is DONE with health problems for a very long time. nono

He has the sweetest face--I just want to reach out and hug him.
Posted by: Kayos

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 08/14/12 01:15 PM

I hope Cooper has finally turned the corner on this issue.
Posted by: bianca

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 08/15/12 03:50 AM

Oh thank you Ruth hugging You can only hug his back end at the moment unless you are very brave rofl

Thank you Kathy hugging
Posted by: bianca

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 08/16/12 04:34 AM

Cooper is bandage free party

Well apart from one piece of tape that I am gradually cutting off.

Posted by: Good_Karma

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 08/16/12 07:04 AM

May this mean he is finally on the road to recovery!!
Posted by: Braverhund

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 08/16/12 07:07 AM

Hooray for Cooper! cheers May his elbow forever be calm and well now. crossedfingers Such a gorgeous boy! wub
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 08/16/12 08:16 AM

Now that is good news!!!!!
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 08/16/12 08:52 AM

Hooray! I hope just getting the bandage off lets him feel better.

Now - no more Mr Cooper! Your e-friends and followers pronounce you 'cured'!

I hope we have a lot of pull! thumbup
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 08/16/12 11:17 AM

hugging I hope Cooper never has to see another bandage for the rest of his life. The poor guy has had enough problems.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 08/16/12 11:46 AM

Hoping, hoping, hoping that this is IT! So glad the bandage is off groovy
Posted by: bianca

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 08/17/12 05:56 AM

hugging Thank you all so much for being on this 'journey' with us.

Bonnie, I so hope your pulling power is on the money! hugging
Posted by: Braverhund

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 08/17/12 06:47 AM

Every day Bianca, Coopie gets better and better! crossedfingers paw thumbup
Posted by: Qyn

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 08/17/12 11:18 AM

Looks quite painful - no wonder he has been less than co-operative with the bandaging lately - I truly hope this is the end of this saga. hugging
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 08/17/12 03:35 PM

I saw a dog walk into the vet clinic yesterday with a huge swelling on his elbow, thought of you guys frown

Yes, hope this is the end of it hugging
Posted by: bianca

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 08/18/12 06:31 AM

hugging Thank you hugging So far so good...
Posted by: kaisersmom

Re: Cooper has lumpy elbows :( - 08/18/12 10:29 AM

So glad there finally seems to be a light at the end of this tunnel!!! Stay well, Cooper!! hugging