Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly?

Posted by: bianca

Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 05/22/12 05:02 AM

I desperately need some help please. How the heck do I wrap Coopers elbow so it stays in place?

The two that the vet has done, both slipped down and exposed the drains and stupid me, cockily (is that a word?) thought I could do a better job.....NOT frown

The poor boy is sick of me trying to patch it up and I am beyond stressed over it. I will take him back to the vet again tomorrow to see if the other vet has any ideas.

I have tried wrapping over his back and then back over but it still slips down and the top 3 drains aren't covered properly.

What has been tried so far, the last couple are my useless attempts with so much wrap and tape it's crazy.




Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 05/22/12 05:16 AM

Poor coop, poor you! hugging

I don't think I have any good ideas, except may need to be held up from both behind and in front of the elbow? Strap around the withers like you have, and I hate to say, but one at the base of the neck? Any chance you have a harness that you can attach to?

What a nightmare, I'm so sorry! I'm off to sleep, I hope when I wake up you'll have an easy solution figure out???

hugging
Posted by: bianca

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 05/22/12 05:20 AM

Oh and he is also trying to hide from me everytime I go near him now frown He's sick of me fluffing around with it too. He hid under the clothes rack last night and wouldn't come out for a few hours.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 05/22/12 05:22 AM

Poor guy, no fun for any of you frown
Posted by: bianca

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 05/22/12 05:23 AM

Thank you Lisa hugging I know it's pathetic but I feel like crying over this knowing he needs it for another couple weeks.

I did try using Molly's Easy Walk Harness last night and taping the vet wrap to that but it didn't work either. And it was too close to the actual drains. Thank you though, I really appreciate the suggestions.

Oh and I am going to order the Doggleggs but imagine they will take a few weeks to ship.
Posted by: Good_Karma

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 05/22/12 06:58 AM

Okay first off you have to give yourself a break. This is not all your fault that the bandages aren't staying in place. I completely understand your frustration (remembering my kitty cone/sleeve debacle) and how upset you are when Cooper tries to avoid you now. But he will get over it!! When the drains come out, he will be your best buddy again. Dogs are even more forgiving than cats, and Lanis easily forgave me for all I put her through.

Okay so the drains aren't staying covered no matter what you do. So is that the end of the world? I mean, is that a real problem? Does it mean they won't work or mean that he might get an infection? Just trying to get a feel for how critical that is.

It looks like you have tried pretty much everything. I can't see what other bandage configurations you could try. thinking The only thing I can think of is putting a suit on him (like Rosa's red one). Do you think you'd be able to find something like that locally so you don't have to wait for it to ship?

I'm sorry Bianca hugging. I hope that even if you don't find a good solution, you stop feeling so upset about it. teary I know it's hard to control how you feel, but getting super upset about it isn't going to help either (I'm channeling Don here, lol). hugging
Posted by: shepnterrier

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 05/22/12 07:34 AM

Originally Posted By: bianca

Oh and I am going to order the Doggleggs but imagine they will take a few weeks to ship.

They are made on the day after you place the order. International shipping via FedEx takes only about a week.

hugging
Posted by: shepnterrier

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 05/22/12 07:57 AM

There is a distributor for the DogLeggs in Australia:
http://www.dogsinmotion.com.au/

Found it here:
https://www.dogleggs.com/links/
Posted by: bianca

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 05/22/12 08:51 AM

Leah, thank you so much for your kind words hugging I do know I'm being silly but I tend to dwell on things and spent most of the night trying to dream up how to work something out. Thank you, you really are lovely hugging And thanks to Don for being channelled! smile

Normally when I look at him, he starts wagging his tail straight away but not today frown

I think the biggest issue with the drains being exposed is the risk of infection. He is on abx anyway. I think also it is painful, he has being whining a lot tonight. I think because the gauze padding is slipping down, he is resting on the elbow itself.

Oh and I went to a horse supply shop today and asked for ideas too! Poor girl in there probably thought I was nuts!

I did buy some fabric and some velcro, needles and thread and attempted to hand sew a temporary sleeve type thingee...but will need my mothers help! But yes a suit like Red Rocket Rosas is a great idea thank you. I shall hunt around this tiny town.
It's 11pm here now so not too long until the vet opens, hopefully he will have a good sleep and I can get him in first thing.

Thank you so much Sarah, you are wonderful for providing those links. I hadn't even really looked at shipping times. Mum is coming over tomorrow to help me measure as my sewing stuff is in storage.
Posted by: Braverhund

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 05/22/12 09:44 AM

Bianca, please try your best not to worry. hugging You are doing an excellent job of doing what you can for him. Cooper is young and will heal well, even though elbows are a tough spot. Try not to fret about Cooper's responses right now, he is resilient and flexible, a youngster who will bounce right back in his waggyness to see you. It all may take some time, but solutions are in the works. hugging You are a wonderful dog-Mum! goodjob

Good to check out the Australian link Sarah found for DogLeggs. In the meantime, might your own vet consult an ortho vet, just to see if the ortho vet has a lovely, nifty, elbow-cup-dressing bandage system?

My last GSD had a collossal, gargantuan elbow hygroma. My vet suggested a baby sock with the toe cut off, to be grippy enough and help hold the bandages in place. It might not work with the drains, or it might. Just an idea! smile

Remember, that you are doing a super job with what you have to work with. Sending you hugs and positive, calming vibes! hugging peacesign
Posted by: SLEACHY

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 05/22/12 09:50 AM

How about a long sleeved t-shirt? You can trim it to fit better. A v-neck works best because the neck hole is larger. I used one of my night gowns on Tooz once because it was a v-neck and longer to cover her belly. She was comfortable in it. It had short sleeves but I could have used a long sleeved one. If I couldn't keep a bandage on, I would put a cone on and confine the dog to a room like the kitchen where I could bleach the floor instead of causing grief by wrapping it up.
Posted by: MSD

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 05/22/12 10:05 AM

bianca—Hi, I’m of no real help, but I feel so bad for you, and I understand (in a small way) what you must be going through. Hugs. Here is a link with a DIY sock harness with step by step pictures. Good luck.

Homemade Sock Harness Instructions: Link with Pictures and Video
Posted by: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 05/22/12 10:33 AM

bianca, I hope you can find some type of solution that works. The sock solution wouldn't be tight enough. Wrapping keeps the fluids from accumulating, I am guessing that is why the vet is wrapping the entire leg. The elbow has to be one of the worst places to wrap, because of the location and you don't want to get it too tight. Now you have the drains to work with also.
Posted by: Qyn

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 05/22/12 10:45 AM

That looks quite good MSD I have been searching for ages and that is the best DIY one I have seen - a big enough sock could fit over the bandage site. Most ones I have seen also have two people doing the bandaging as it is very difficult to both hold the leg and do the bandaging

Bianca, hugging it is hard when the amenities are not as readily available in country towns.
Posted by: Caledon

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 05/22/12 10:52 AM

I just skimmed the posts (sorry if this has been suggested) but I would try wrapping it around one leg, like the pink, bring it around his back and down the other leg. That way the good leg will stop the slipping. I would also wrap it around his chest in the other direction.

What he really needs is a good garter belt, or what men use to hold up their socks.
Posted by: JeanKBBMMMAAN

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 05/22/12 01:11 PM

SPANX! Would that work - kind of like compression hose...

Or too much pressure on the drains?

I feel for you - this is one reason I would not be able to do a THR on a dog - the aftercare would send me to the bin. Not saying that lightly either.
Posted by: bianca

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 05/23/12 06:01 AM

Thank you all so very much hugging

Well in desperation last night, I did this laugh




He was no impressed and stupid me...when I let them out to toilet this morning I forgot he was a boy rofl

Anywhoo, off to the vets this morning and they sedated him, cleaned it all out and said it looks really good! Hopefully just another week and they may be able to remove the drains. They taped it up pretty well, so I will take him back on Frid for another change of dressings.





I have also filled out the online order form for the Dogleggs.

Thank you all so much for your advice smile
Posted by: Good_Karma

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 05/23/12 06:57 AM

Originally Posted By: bianca


He was no impressed and stupid me...when I let them out to toilet this morning I forgot he was a boy rofl




rofl

I hope that was one of Brad's shirts and not one of yours. wink Glad to hear it's looking good, that's wonderful news!!
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 05/23/12 08:09 AM

Originally Posted By: bianca
...
He was no impressed and stupid me...when I let them out to toilet this morning I forgot he was a boy rofl
...
rofl

hugging Cooper hugging
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 05/23/12 08:38 AM

Much as I love the contrast of those strong colored wraps against that beautiful black coat, I just want to see Cooper himself, lumpless.

Keep up the good work,
MJ
Posted by: Woodreb

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 05/23/12 09:05 AM

At least the shirt kept him from hitting his front legs when going. I'm constantly telling Caleb he needs to learn how to aim better. rofl
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 05/23/12 10:19 AM

You are doing such a good job of taking care of Cooper. I know it is tiring worrying all the time.

I hope this is the last of his 'lumpy' elbow. Poor boy and poor you! hugging
Posted by: Kayos

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 05/23/12 02:38 PM

Originally Posted By: arycrest
Originally Posted By: bianca
...
He was no impressed and stupid me...when I let them out to toilet this morning I forgot he was a boy rofl
...
rofl

hugging Cooper hugging


Too funny!

I too just want Cooper to get healed up. He really is pretty tolerant.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 05/23/12 03:38 PM

Cooper, you are still so handsome!

I sure hope this is all over soon!
Posted by: middleofnowhere

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 05/23/12 08:00 PM

Originally Posted By: Kayos
Originally Posted By: arycrest
Originally Posted By: bianca
...
He was no impressed and stupid me...when I let them out to toilet this morning I forgot he was a boy rofl
...
rofl

hugging Cooper hugging


Too funny!

I too just want Cooper to get healed up. He really is pretty tolerant.



Done that. Or real close. Forgot to take the shorts of boy dog when I let him out (castration deal). The look on his face!

What did Cooper think about his pee catcher?
Posted by: bianca

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 05/24/12 07:22 AM

Lol he just looked like "durh, what just happened?"!!! I have had females all my life so am still not used to the boy situation rofl

He chewed off the part covering his paw this morning but apart from that, the dressing is still intact!!!

Oh and his new dogleggs are in the mail today (from here) so fingers crossed they will arrive tomorrow or Monday!

Off to the vet again in the morning.
Posted by: kaisersmom

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 05/24/12 10:22 AM

I'm just reading this thread now - hopefully the Dogleggs solve the problem - in the meantime there is a tubular elastic mesh bandage that is made for hands, arms, etc that might work and should be available at the regular pharmacies or drugstores there. They come in small and large circumferences and you can cut off the length you need - it would fit on over the regular dressing to keep it in place.

http://www.drugstore.com/curad-hold-tite-tubular-stretch-bandage-small/qxp209779
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 05/24/12 02:15 PM

I would consider some systemic/proteolytic enzymes.

Pat, that bandage is neat to know about. Bandaids and guaze sure have come a long way!
Posted by: bianca

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 05/28/12 08:26 AM

Thank you Pat! That would be a really good product to have in the 1st aid kit!

Thank you Lisa, I am waiting for shipment to arrive smile

Vet again today and they are happy with it. He goes back on Thursday and hopefully the drains can come out! crossedfingers

Purple vet wrap today


And his Dogleggs arrived today! I will try them on him tomorrow.
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 05/28/12 09:53 AM

I hope this week will be the last of his elbow problems.

Purple suits him, but I am sure you are both more than tired of having to deal with this.

crossedfingers Hope the drains come out Thursday!
Posted by: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 05/28/12 10:17 AM

bianca, I am hopping that the Dogleggs work like they say the do.

Cooper has really been a good boy about all of the wrapping.

Good thoughts to this being the end of the problems.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 05/28/12 12:35 PM

He has been a good sport, but it looks like his patience is wearing just a bit! What a good boy!

Glad to hear the positive report, hope this will end soon!
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 05/28/12 12:37 PM

Bianca,

I hope that the Dogleggs work and that Cooper heals up really soon. You need all of this stress like a hole in the head right now. hugging
Posted by: bianca

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 05/29/12 08:49 AM

Awww thank you again ladies hugging

He has been so good about it all but yes I think he really is sick of it all now. He has chewed a bit more of the dressing during the night so ta da :




I did use a sewing tape measure before I ordered them but they are rather too big. I so hope he grows into them!
Posted by: kaisersmom

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 05/29/12 09:36 AM

Looks kinda like a gun holster from the side! He looks comfortable in them though wub
Posted by: Braverhund

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 05/29/12 10:02 AM

Bianca, you are truly doing a marvellous job with Cooper's care! smile Really, elbows are difficult! hammer I don't think his protective sleeve is really too big, I think "roomy" is good for around any joint that will need to move a bit. Know? Cooper looks so very loved and well-cared-for! Sending positive vibes for speedy healing! crossedfingers
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 05/29/12 10:22 AM

Are they supposed to apply pressure to the area, and do they?

Even big, they will protect the area, both from him and from trauma. He is trying to be such a goood sport!
Posted by: Good_Karma

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 05/29/12 11:12 AM

You're doing the best possible for him. May all your efforts pay off!!!
Posted by: shepnterrier

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 05/30/12 07:09 AM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
Are they supposed to apply pressure to the area, and do they?


The Dogleggs are to reduce pressure since pressure on the elbow from lying on hard surfaces is behind the hygroma.

Feli's came with a 4" square of memory foam, and instructions on how to make an opening in the middle of it to accommodate the sore area. The instruction is to take a round metal cookie cutter the size of the sore, heat it in a flame, and 'cookie cut' the hole in the memory foam. That way you get a donut shaped cushion for the sore. It worked beautifully when I did it. Just don't use that cookie cutter for edible cookies after heat-cutting memory foam with it!

Hope Cooper will heal quickly and completely now!
Posted by: shepnterrier

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 05/30/12 07:19 AM

To keep the hygroma from recurring, finding a bed that distributes point pressure is crucial. I try beds by pushing my elbow in them, that way I can feel how effective they are in cushioning the dog's elbows.

Memory foam is said to feel warm, though I don't have the problem with my own memory foam pad. Might depend on the quality of the memory foam. For Feli, instead of a memory foam dog bed (possibly not the best memory foam quality) I used a top quality 2" twin mattress pad and flipped it over so it'd be half size and 4". She liked that. High quality memory foam refers to both density of the foam (dense is good) and its heat retention (low is good).

As an alternative to memory foam, I saw this pad made of something called Celsion™ Talalay latex: http://www.inthecompanyofdogs.com/itemdy00.asp?ID=17,470&GEN1=Dog+Beds%2c+Blankets+%26+Mats&T1=D11262+CML+S&dispRow=0&srccode=
"Crate Pad provides superior pressure relief. Thanks to sophisticated, new-to-market technology, this patent-pending, body temperature-regulating Celsion™ Talalay latex pad provides the perfect balance of comfort and support, with up to 33% more pressure relief than memory foam. Helps keep your dog cool in summer and warm in winter and is hypoallergenic, breathable, and lightweight but exceptionally durable."
Posted by: shepnterrier

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 05/30/12 07:34 AM

Another super cushion bed that didn't get warm and that wasn't too soft was a Flex Gel dog bed. Unfortunately, it isn't offered anymore, at least not in the US. The material: http://www.sleepsolutions.net.nz/Our+Range/Flexgel.html

It's very heavy. Unlike foam with its open cell texture, the Flex Gel doesn't absorb anything and can be cleaned easily.
Posted by: bianca

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 05/30/12 08:16 AM

Thank you all. Sarah that last one looks amazing and I think would be fantastic for Brad too if he ever gets another pressure sore! I didn't get anything with the delivery but could make something.

Well I think Molly and Coopie combined during the night...you pull this bit and I'll go the other way. I woke up to find Cooper dogleggless! Then this afternoon we popped into town for an hour or so and came home to find the little fart had taken them off again!

I had to re-bandage him this morning and used all the stuff I'd accumulated from the hospital. He goes back in the morning for another dressing change and hopefully this will be the end of it.

I think once the bandage comes off I should be able to fit them better. We move in 2 weeks (yippee I am going nuts with cabin fever) so as soon as I can find my sewing machine and a supplier, I will go on the hunt for memory foam and make some new beds. The good thing is the new house has polished floorboards and carpet so at least no hard tiles.

Thank you all for following Coops long and drawn out lumpiness!!!! smile
Posted by: bianca

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 05/31/12 08:36 AM

Well darn it, there is still fluid draining so no removal today frown We go back on Wednesday and they will take them out then (it will be 3 weeks).

Back to banana coloured today smile And staying close to Dad!

Posted by: Good_Karma

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 05/31/12 01:10 PM

Bummer. frown

He still looks pretty happy, in spite of all he's been through.
Posted by: shepnterrier

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 05/31/12 01:39 PM

If he can remove the Dogleggs, they are fitted too loose.
These ever busy puppy mouths!
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 05/31/12 02:03 PM

I'm sorry it's another week frown

I didn't realize you were moving I think....have to go find that thread......

If they don't stop whatever is causing the draining, how can they be confident that the draining will stop? Does that make sense?
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 05/31/12 02:16 PM

I understand what Lisa is saying: if they are still draining and they remove the drains then won't the elbows fill up with fluid again?

I'm sorry this is so frustrating for you and for your poor boy. I sure hope they can figure this out so he can be a normal doggy again and your life can be a little less stressful. hugging
Posted by: bianca

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 06/01/12 06:35 AM

Thank you all again hugging

Today we were out for a couple of hours so got home and he had removed the top part and was licking the drains sick So I removed the old dressing and there was a lot (to me) of icky black looking stuff on the gauze. I finally managed to re-bandage (he does not like this at all frown ) and called the vet.

She said that usually when they put drains in for an abscess etc the fluid dries up within a week so the drains come out. But with him they are playing it by ear so to speak. She said the longer they stay in, the more chance of infection and also more importantly fibrosis (sp) and they will be harder to remove. She did say the literature states they can remain in place for up to 4 weeks maximum.

So I really don't know, just have to see how it goes I guess but to my untrained eye, it looked like a lot of yuckies for 24 hours (I took a photo if anyone wants to see it!).

Sarah, thank you. I put the Doggleggs back on him after re bandaging and a little bit later I watched him try and pull apart the 2 velcro leg straps! So I've said to Brad, until this is resolved he will have to come with us into town etc so I can keep an eye on the smarty pants!

Today with his red wrap and Doggleggs

Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 06/01/12 07:28 AM

Bianca,

I really really am sorry that Cooper (and you and Brad) have to go through all this, and even so with the outcome uncertain.

But how I do love the pictures of your ailing puppy.

all of you take care,
MJ
Posted by: Good_Karma

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 06/01/12 11:22 AM

Oh geez... feelingblue
Posted by: kaisersmom

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 06/01/12 11:32 AM

Quote:
If they don't stop whatever is causing the draining, how can they be confident that the draining will stop? Does that make sense?


That's what I was thinking too - fluid on the elbow is different from an abscess. The abscess drains and eventually shrinks and goes away. But the body keeps producing the fluid that's going into the bursa or whatever at the elbow so I don't understand how putting drains in it is going to stop it either. Seems to me the drains would just continually be putting out the fluid as quick as the body makes it.

I sure don't have any answers, but hopefully they can get to the bottom of this somehow!!
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 06/01/12 12:18 PM

Me, I would be experimenting with all sorts of things. One thing, since it may be preventative anyway, would be antibiotics. The other is something to stop an inflammatory process in the body and slow down that immune system reaction.

I would feel a lot better if that fluid was trickling less and less, and the drains weren't getting ucky.

I'm so sorry this won't just stop!

hugging
Posted by: Qyn

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 06/01/12 11:50 PM

Most of the sites don't recommend draining from what I can see - the fluid is there to protect the joint from whatever is causing the problem so it will keep forming while the problem exists, even if the body is only reacting to what it thinks is a problem even if in reality an issue is very minor.
Posted by: kaisersmom

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 06/02/12 12:01 AM

I'm not sure if I should say anything or not, but here goes:

I was at a fundraiser this evening and our vet sat at our table. I asked for his opinion about Cooper's elbow. He said he would not have advised putting the drains in as they will just keep draining fluid as long as his body keeps making it, and by putting the drains in, they're making it easier for various germs to get into the joint and set up an infection.

I asked what can be done about elbow hygromas, and he said there really isn't a lot that can be done. A pressure type of bandage can reduce the swelling for awhile, but he said there really isn't a cure. He said they're mostly caused from a dog laying down hard on the elbow or elbows, and sometimes having the dog wear a pad on the elbow to cushion it will reduce the size of the hygroma somewhat. He said they're very difficult to deal with once they're there. frown
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 06/02/12 12:33 AM

I know you are doing the absolute best you can for him, Bianca. hugging We're all trying to think outside the box. What are your other options where you are right now? Are there any acupuncturists around? Acupuncture is AMAZING for this type of thing. I had idiopathic swelling on my ankle and it is the only thing that got rid of it.

If you can find an acupuncturist who really knows their stuff they could inject something like Traumeel directly into the site. My new vet said that they inject Zeel for arthritis and it works really well to reduce inflammation and pain.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 06/02/12 01:32 AM

I agree with Ruth, it must be so difficult when you are giving him the best, and it just isn't working the way it's supposed to.

I did some googling.....you may have seen these.....I'm thinking that he never stayed still enough to ice?

alternatives for hygroma:
http://www.veterinariaholistica.net/if_case_reports.html
http://med-vetacupuncture.org/english/articles/traumeel.html


Appears a number of folks have used DMSO, also epsom salts, even a steroid injection - just lots of anecdotal stories that might give you an idea of some options to try:
http://www.greatdanelady.com/articles/elbow_hygromas_bursas.htm
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/bulletins.read?mnr=28491&pagen=1
http://forums.barrelhorseworld.com/forum/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=329214
http://dolforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16757

http://www.rottweiler.net/forums/vets-corner/37869-elbow-hygromas.html
http://forums.barrelhorseworld.com/forum/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=329214
http://www.indiadivine.org/audarya/ayurveda-health-wellbeing/954969-elbow-hygroma-dog.html (do you know anyone that knows pranic healing???)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1150517
http://www.worldmastiffforum.com/post?id=3563238 (last post was informative)
http://mastiffmessageboard.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=3121199

I wonder if he would sleep on an air bed, they are pretty cool if you don't use a cover?
Posted by: bianca

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 06/02/12 05:41 AM

Gosh thank you all so much ladies hugging I admit I have been close to tears all day today, it is obviously bothering him. I re=dressed it and to me, it looks bloody awful. There is swelling probably bigger than a golf ball still.

I think I will call on Monday and see if they can just take them out asap as I really don't think they are making any or a significant difference. Other than he is beyond sensitive when he sees me coming with the bag of supplies.

The Dogleggs, well I can' seem to fit them right. They are firm and fit well when standing but when he is lying down, they gap at the elbow and he licks and removes the wrap. I stopped and got more dressings from the horse supply shop today and the lady remembered me. She suggested a loose hair tie over the gaping parts. I am drying the dogleggs out at the moment (wet from him licking) and then will try that.

Pat, I do appreciate you taking the time to ask. That is so kind of you thank you hugging It's so hard to know what to do as 5 vets (2 specialists) have said that the drains were the second step after the needle aspiration.

I think I may see what happens once the drains are removed and then ask for a referral. It's a shame that the nearest specialists are in the city (4 hour drive each way) but so be it.

Ruth, thank you I admit I haven't checked yet but I will phone around Monday morning. I have to try everything now.

Lisa, once again thank you so much for taking the trouble to provide all those links. I will read through them a bit later.

Thank you all again and sorry for the ongoing novel hugging

Today, back to green.

Posted by: Good_Karma

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 06/02/12 06:56 AM

Just hugging. And more hugging
Posted by: bianca

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 06/02/12 07:23 AM

Thank you Leah hugging

I've just read the above links and they all say not to drain them frown But his last one was massive (95mls of fluid) so I don't think I could have left it?

I see a few of the links mention DMSO? What is that? I have some Ichthammol ointment which is also mentioned so I could try that once the skin has healed after drain removal.

Off to google holistic vets in this hick town.
Posted by: Qyn

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 06/02/12 08:04 AM

Bianca, everyone knows you only have Cooper's best interest at heart - he and Molly could not have a better owner. Plus, it is all too easy for any of us to get on the internet and search for answers or alternative treatments when it seems Cooper is not getting better but that is because we care about Cooper and we care about you - but only you and your vets are there on the spot so no doubt have a better viewpoint.

Having had a scientific background, I probably often tend to see and write things clinically first but I certainly don't mean to be as critical as I can appear to be and that is one reason why I choose not to post in certain threads - sorry if anything I have said has upset you. hugging
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 06/02/12 08:29 AM

Just this... grouphug for you and Cooper. I hope when they take a look Monday things begin to get better for you.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 06/02/12 10:02 AM

Originally Posted By: Qyn
Bianca, everyone knows you only have Cooper's best interest at heart - he and Molly could not have a better owner. Plus, it is all too easy for any of us to get on the internet and search for answers or alternative treatments when it seems Cooper is not getting better but that is because we care about Cooper and we care about you .

Yes, this grouphug

DMSO is used a lot in horses, it's actually a solvent. I've used it when I had a swollen knee that responded to about nothing. It can be harsh, but it's effective; I'd just use it very carfully and sparingly, but I would be cautious near any open wound. It can carry things into the skin too - in an episode of NCIS I think they used it as a carrier to administer poison wink I find that I can't use it regularly, but do use it occassionally - I buy it with a rolltop for application at the health food store, but feed stores probably carry it too.

Haven't a clue if any of the alternatives work, but I was looking for different perspectives, since he doesn't seem to be progressing. One of those links talks about the surgery, that they've done it, it's not the end of the world, it worked, but, gosh, sure would be nice if that could be avoided.

Just hopeing for the best for you guys. hugging
Posted by: Woodreb

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 06/02/12 01:23 PM

Some uses of DMSO in the medical field: Dimethylsulfoxide (DMSO)

However - be aware that it is not with toxicity issues:

Section 11: Toxicological Information
Routes of Entry: Absorbed through skin. Eye contact. Inhalation.
Toxicity to Animals:
Acute oral toxicity (LD50): 7920 mg/kg [Mouse]. Acute dermal toxicity (LD50): 40000 mg/kg [Rat].
Chronic Effects on Humans:
MUTAGENIC EFFECTS: Mutagenic for mammalian somatic cells. Mutagenic for bacteria and/or yeast. May cause damage to
the following organs: blood, kidneys, liver, mucous membranes, skin, eyes.
Other Toxic Effects on Humans:
Slightly hazardous in case of inhalation (lung irritant). Slightly hazardous in case of skin contact (irritant, permeator), of
ingestion, .
Special Remarks on Toxicity to Animals: Not available.
Special Remarks on Chronic Effects on Humans:
May cause adverse reproductive effects (female fertility and fetotoxicity - post implantation mortality) and birth defects based
on animal data. May cause cancer (tumorigenic) based on animal data. May affect genetic material (mutagenic).
Special Remarks on other Toxic Effects on Humans:
Acute Potential Health Effects: Skin: Causes skin irritation. May cause urticaria(hives), skin rashes, and dermatitis. Dimethyl
Sulfoxide is readily absorbed through skin and may carry other dissolved chemicals into the body. An unusual garliconion-
oyster odor may develop on breath and body/skin. Absorption through skin may also cause diarrhea, and affect
respiration(dyspnea, cyanosis), blood, behavior (fatigue, dizziness, sedation, headaches), vision (transient photophobia,
and disturbances of color vision), urinary system (hematuria). Eyes: Causes eye irritation. May cause blurred vision,
corneal opacity, chemical conjunctivitis. Inhalation: Causes respiratory tract irritation. Symptoms from exposure to high
vapor concentrations may include coughing, shortness of breath, headache, dizziness and sedation. Ingestion: Causes
gastrointestinal tract irritation, and an usual garlic-onion-oyster may develop on breath, and body/skin. May affect behavior/
central nervous system, respiration (dyspnea). Symptoms may include nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea, abdominal pain,
drowsiness, confusion, lethargy, agitation, disorientation, tremor, muscle weakness, chills, chest pains. May also affect liver
(elevated liver enzymes, jaundice), cardiovascular system, and urinary system (hematuria, hemoglobinuria, renal tubular
injury), eyes (transient photophobia and disturbances of color vision, conjunctive irritation) Chronic Potential Health Effects:
Skin: Chronic absorption may cause effects similar to that of acute skin absorption. Chronic skin contact may cause scaling

from DMSO MSDS

I used it a few years ago for a skin infection that Rica in her last year, as a prescribed treatment from her vet. Please just be aware that there are some toxicity issues with using this chemical for long term exposures.

I have no suggestions for you, but am sending good thoughts to Cooper that something can be done to help him with this.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 06/02/12 09:13 PM

Johanna, how did you apply the DMSO?

Based on my experience with my knee, I didn't need much of it, and wouldn't use it a lot.
Posted by: Woodreb

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 06/02/12 09:33 PM

Lisa,

From what I remember, we just dampened a gauze pad and rub it on her skin. I think it was actually a carrier for a medicine, but it's been long enough that I don't remember exactly what was done. I don't think you want to use very much, nor would I want to use it very long. I think it was a week long thing for Rica, once a day.

We use this chemical as a solvent for a fair amount of the GC work that we do, testing for residual solvents and always glove up since we're using relatively large volumes of the stuff at a time.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 06/03/12 01:30 AM

I have a healthy respect for it, but I do know it helped when nothing else did. Weird stuff, thanks for the info!
Posted by: bianca

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 06/03/12 08:17 AM

Originally Posted By: Qyn
Bianca, everyone knows you only have Cooper's best interest at heart - he and Molly could not have a better owner. Plus, it is all too easy for any of us to get on the internet and search for answers or alternative treatments when it seems Cooper is not getting better but that is because we care about Cooper and we care about you - but only you and your vets are there on the spot so no doubt have a better viewpoint.

Having had a scientific background, I probably often tend to see and write things clinically first but I certainly don't mean to be as critical as I can appear to be and that is one reason why I choose not to post in certain threads - sorry if anything I have said has upset you. hugging


Oh Alison, no, no, no! Nothing you or anybody else have ever said has upset me hugging I so appreciate everything that has been mentioned. I would be totally lost without you all. Please do not ever not reply for fear of upsetting me!

I am just so frustrated with this all but not any of you hugging
Posted by: bianca

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 06/03/12 08:25 AM

Thank you Bonnie, and Johanna for that info, and Lisa hugging

I think I will not look further into that...it looks too scary for me to feel comfortable with. Knowing my luck, Cooper or Moo would lick it off and get really sick!

I have to meet the firewood man at the new house tomorrow morning so hopefully can get Cooper into the vet. With the dew on the grass until after lunch and then todays constant rain, his bandage is getting wet and manky so am changing it twice daily frown I can't put a plastic bag over it as he wants to eat it!

Today back to fashionable red smile and wondering what all the fuss is about.



Once again, thank you all hugging
Posted by: JeanKBBMMMAAN

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 06/03/12 11:52 AM

Weird thought - could there be autoimmune aspect to this stuff??? Reading through this it almost sounds like even if no one with...uh, one of those pesky medical degrees has said it (that we have found - maybe someone has) that maybe the whole body overreacting this is a sign of a vague AID???? Like puppy strangles is...

So like...would an immune suppressing dose of something like Prednisilone work I wonder - something for people to ask their vets as like a strange thought that you can blame on an internet weirdo. laugh
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 06/03/12 01:07 PM

Originally Posted By: JeanKBBMMMAAN
Weird thought - could there be autoimmune aspect to this stuff??? Reading through this it almost sounds like even if no one with...uh, one of those pesky medical degrees has said it (that we have found - maybe someone has) that maybe the whole body overreacting this is a sign of a vague AID????

This has been my thought all along, except I would go for the CMO, protelytic enzymes as antiinflammatories, etc.
Posted by: bianca

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 06/03/12 07:49 PM

Thank you Jean and Lisa hugging

I am taking him into the vets in half an hour (not sure if they will sedate him to remove the drains) but I will ask re the possibility of AID. Thank you smile

The firewood supplier was early so didn't have time to do anything with Coop and just got home and he had exposed the drains and was licking them madly. So I'm not sure if they are itchy (stitches) or painful or both.

Lisa I have ordered the 2 supplements you suggested in the other thread but overseas shipping takes 6-8 weeks apparently so am still waiting! But currently he gets Vit C, fish oil, vit E and Glucosamine, and probiotics.
Posted by: bianca

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 06/03/12 08:53 PM

Just dropped him off as they are going to sedate him again. I only spoke to the vet nurse but she is not aware of anyone who does acupunture (which is what I discovered via Google). She said there was a vet about an hour and a half away who used to but she doesn't think she practices anymore.

So she has made a note to ask the 2 vets there if they know of anyone and also if there is a chance this could be an AID issue.
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 06/03/12 10:43 PM

Bianca,

Where are you now? Maybe we can help find someone?
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 06/04/12 02:59 AM

How frustrating on the shipping. Wonder if I could have got them there sooner frown

Don't remember the second supplement, will have to go look!

Yes, maybe we can help look for an acu vet. You can always pm the location.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 06/04/12 03:10 AM

Found it: http://germanshepherdhome.net/forum/ubbt...bows#Post225129

Okay, the bioflavanoids will help with any eosinophilic reaction, 1 capsule twice a day, and they will supplement the vit C that you are giving. Thet won't be enough to "reset" anything, but will support. Might be able to find something equivalent over there if he continues to be an allergice response boy.

The CMO is our big hope. At high doses, it should reset inflammatory, autoimmune type processes. If vet thinks autoimmune, he will probably try steroids before your mail comes.
Posted by: bianca

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 06/04/12 08:15 AM

Thank you Ruth and Lisa! You probably have a better chance than me of finding something...I'm not the best researcher!

I'm in Bairnsdale, Victoria.

Vets comfirmed no one locally. I did pick up a business card at the vets for a equine massage therapy lady so I will call tomorrow and ask if she may be able to help with him.

I did find a natural therapy place for the 2 legged variety so will also call and ask about the possibilty of someone looking at Coop.

The vets do not think it is anything other than a bog standard Hygroma. So no steroids. He came home with more abx. They said although there is still a lump they can actually feel the elbow so chances are, the lump is now scar tissue.

The highlight of the whole crappy saga...he came home with a 'C' on his vet wrap! smile




So I can remove the bandage tomorrow and see what happens now. To be honest I'm not feeling terribly optimistic but time will tell.

And tonight we have severe wind warnings in place and Molly is freaking out, so 3 Xanax later and this is what we have. Yipee frown Is there anybody out there that wants to consider adopting me?!!! laugh

Posted by: Good_Karma

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 06/04/12 11:06 AM

Awwww Coopie!!! So the drains are out now right? I hope that helps him to feel less like messing with his poor elbow. I know you aren't optimistic, but his other elbow is currently fine, right??? So maybe there is hope. crossedfingers

Bianca, I would totally adopt you!!! But your pack needs you too much, what would they all do without you????
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 06/04/12 02:46 PM

Oh my goodness, they would be lost without you hugging

I am hopeful! I will try looking a bit later tonight. You know, massage might even help?
Posted by: bianca

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 06/05/12 09:22 AM

Lol thank you both!

It was a fun night, I turned the lights out around 1am, and then Miss Moo had the munchies (xanax I guess) so she was banging into the gate trying to get into the cats food in the bathroom. Around half an hour later I gave in and gave her a half meal.

Then she decided she needed to go out (in the rain and wind - trees down around here) and was barking madly running around. So we pretty much cuddled on the tiny couch all night. I would have gladly run away last night if I had it in me laugh

Anywhoo Coopers elbow today (now enclosed in his dogleggs). frown



Posted by: kaisersmom

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 06/05/12 12:25 PM

Awww, Cooper! At least he looks like he's taking it all in stride after all he's been through!!

When I got home last night there was a message from our vet who I talked to at the Humane Society fundraiser the other night. He called about Cooper's elbow! He suggested going to the Dogleggs site (he didn't know you had already bought them) and try those after the drains are out. He said he's used those on a few dogs with elbow hygromas and they seem to have helped somewhat - didn't make them go away, but did make them smaller. Just wanted to pass it along! smile
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 06/05/12 12:42 PM

That was neat of your vet Pat!

Cooper, oh my gosh, such a sweetie wub

I sure hope that things start getting a little easier for you bianca hugging
Posted by: Good_Karma

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 06/05/12 12:47 PM

Wow, his fur is growing back already! Has he forgiven you yet? poke

Hope this works out and the Dogleggs do the trick for him.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 06/06/12 04:11 AM

Bianca, I tried....

a number of acupuncture folks far away from you:
http://www.acuvet.com.au/search_results.php?field=state&search=VIC

and I even search Australian Capital Territory. I don't know if there are any other states close to you that might have someone, but it doesn't look good!

These didn't look good either, but I don't know the geography that well:
http://www.civtedu.org/australia/


I think I found your equine vet, on the right side of the page:
http://www.australianwesternhorseshowcase.com.au/Business/Equine-Therapists.htm
and this looks like the same practice?
http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/bairnsdale/pet-services/relievapet-natural-animal-practice/1002625381

Sorry, that's all I could find!
Posted by: bianca

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 06/06/12 08:43 AM

Oh wow Pat, that is so cool of that vet! Please next time you talk to him, if you could say a big thank you from me! That is amazing somebody would go to such trouble smile

Leah, I'm thinking of shaving his other leg so he has matching Poodle cuts!!!

Lisa, thank you so very much for taking the trouble to look for me hugging I appreciate it very much. I haven't called the Equine lady yet, still running around trying to arrange everything for the move.

I also figured I would rather have the open wounds heal before I try anything with him.

Thank you all again smile
Posted by: Good_Karma

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 06/13/12 05:39 PM

How is the Coopster doing lately?
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 06/13/12 05:42 PM

Yes - how is Cooper doing? Hopefully better so you can relax a little.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 06/14/12 12:16 AM

I was just thinking of him this morning, hope he is doing okay!
Posted by: bianca

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 06/14/12 04:43 AM

Oh thank you for thinking of my little monster hugging That is so thoughful smile

It is staying steady at golf ball size. He is not bothered by it at all and is pretty much ignoring the Dogleggs now but the last pic shows what he really thinks laugh I don't think it is going away anytime soon.


Posted by: Woodreb

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 06/14/12 08:27 AM

rofl Sorry, I feel for both Cooper and you having to deal with this. But can't help laughing at that last picture.
Posted by: Good_Karma

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 06/14/12 11:27 AM

rofl Love that last one!!

I guess this is good news?? At least it's not getting worse (KW). hugging I'm glad the Dogleggs seem to be helping. smile
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 06/15/12 02:09 AM

You tell 'em Cooper!

Not getting worse sounds like a step in the right direction - breaking the cycle?
Posted by: bianca

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 06/15/12 06:41 AM

Thank you smile

I'm hoping it is a good sign that it hasn't blown up already crossedfingers
Posted by: Barb E

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 06/15/12 09:33 AM

crossedfingers x 1,000,000.50!!!
Posted by: kaisersmom

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? - 06/15/12 09:57 AM

Our vet will be happy that his suggestion of the Dogleggs is working! wink wink

Just kidding - I mean he will be happy, but I know you already had them before he made the suggestion - glad it's not getting bigger!!