Havoc is Not Right

Posted by: Kayos

Havoc is Not Right - 08/14/12 01:35 PM

And we have no idea what is wrong with him. He has an appointment tomorrow but how do you tell the vet what the problem seems to be?

He has not been himself for about 5 days.

Last week my hubby was in New Mexico for his dad's funeral. Havoc seemed fine until Friday morning. I woke up about 3 AM to pacing in the kitchen, thought I was dreaming. Kayos came down the hall to get me up, the look on her face said "you gotta take care of this!" So I got up and came out to find that Havoc had diarrhea all over the kitchen. It was shades of Max all over. (Max did this a lot before he died.)

I cleaned it up and did not feed him breakfast. I had to take Kayos to Tulsa for her second HA injection and took Lydi with me. Left Havco out in the dog run and he had another very lose poop while I was gone. He got the grimy gut meal for 2 days and his stomach recovered.

But he has not been himself since. He seems fatigued and sometimes listless. His coat is good, his eyes are bright, his breath smells normal. His stools are normal, he is eating well.

Sunday he began limping on his right leg off and on. Hubby got home about 4 PM and saw him limping and then we noticed his wrist was swollen and he was in definite pain. I gave him a Tramadol til we could get him to the vet the next day (would have been yesterday). We got up yesterday and he was fine. So we figured maybe he had stepped wrong or knocked it when he was practicing his jumping in the yard on Saturday.

Today he seems draggy again. I went home at lunch to let Lydi out and discovered he is limping again. Something is wrong. Hubby is terrified he has cancer - me too.

He really dislikes Lydi and I wonder if he is depressed? I do know he is done something to his leg.
Posted by: SLEACHY

Re: Havoc is Not Right - 08/14/12 01:45 PM

Is it possible that he picked up the same funk that caused Lydi's episode of vomit & diarrhea? I don't know about the swelling. Try not to panic...easier said than done, I know. He could have just tweaked himself and is in a lot of pain.
Posted by: Kayos

Re: Havoc is Not Right - 08/14/12 01:54 PM

I thought that too about the bug or whatever that got Lydi. They were about 10 days apart and as an adult he might have fought it off better.

I am not sure the limping is connected to him feeling badly or to the diarrhea. I think he twisted it while jumping.
Posted by: Woodreb

Re: Havoc is Not Right - 08/14/12 02:08 PM

No suggestions - but I hope Havoc will be OK. Sending good thoughts for him from CT.
Posted by: GSD07

Re: Havoc is Not Right - 08/14/12 02:16 PM

Oh my gosh, Kathy, I am so scared for Havoc. I hope it's just a muscle sprain. The GI issues could be from heat, Anton has it sometimes this summer and we manage quickly at the first signs with slippery elm and Fortiflora. I really hope it's nothing bad.

So sorry to hear about Joe's father frown It's really tough time for you right now.. Hugs..
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Havoc is Not Right - 08/14/12 02:33 PM

Oh Kathy, you really can't catch a break. I intended to post on Lydi's new thread, it's really wonderful she's herself again, but then I saw your concern about Havoc.

If you think he's off, he's off. It's easy to imagine that he might have picked up whatever Lydi had and was handling it until the additional strain of her return. I certainly don't know.

I just wish your family could all be healthy at once.

MJ
Posted by: DnP

Re: Havoc is Not Right - 08/14/12 02:41 PM

Originally Posted By: Kayos
And we have no idea what is wrong with him. He has an appointment tomorrow but how do you tell the vet what the problem seems to be?

He has not been himself for about 5 days.

Last week my hubby was in New Mexico for his dad's funeral. Havoc seemed fine until Friday morning. I woke up about 3 AM to pacing in the kitchen, thought I was dreaming. Kayos came down the hall to get me up, the look on her face said "you gotta take care of this!" So I got up and came out to find that Havoc had diarrhea all over the kitchen. It was shades of Max all over. (Max did this a lot before he died.)

I cleaned it up and did not feed him breakfast. I had to take Kayos to Tulsa for her second HA injection and took Lydi with me. Left Havco out in the dog run and he had another very lose poop while I was gone. He got the grimy gut meal for 2 days and his stomach recovered.

But he has not been himself since. He seems fatigued and sometimes listless. His coat is good, his eyes are bright, his breath smells normal. His stools are normal, he is eating well.

Sunday he began limping on his right leg off and on. Hubby got home about 4 PM and saw him limping and then we noticed his wrist was swollen and he was in definite pain. I gave him a Tramadol til we could get him to the vet the next day (would have been yesterday). We got up yesterday and he was fine. So we figured maybe he had stepped wrong or knocked it when he was practicing his jumping in the yard on Saturday.

Today he seems draggy again. I went home at lunch to let Lydi out and discovered he is limping again. Something is wrong. Hubby is terrified he has cancer - me too.

He really dislikes Lydi and I wonder if he is depressed? I do know he is done something to his leg.


I think you just tell the vet what you just told us. You know your dogs and you are such a great advocate for them, and if you know Havoc is "off" and something is not right, I'd say go with your gut and don't second guess yourself. I think start with the basic..fecal, blood panel, urine.

With all that you've been through, you didn't need this to come up. Big hugs to you... hugging I know it's hard not to think the worst, when you've been through it. I'm zooming positive and healing thoughts your way!
Posted by: Kayos

Re: Havoc is Not Right - 08/14/12 02:52 PM

Originally Posted By: Mary Jane
Oh Kathy, you really can't catch a break. I just wish your family could all be healthy at once.

MJ



We had planned on vetting him yesterday but he quit limping so we did not take him. We have had so many vet bills plus the expenses of Joe's trip to NM, we decided to wait and see. We really would like a break. It seems when it rains it pours. Even the vet tech that answered the phone (dear Natalie) said it has been awhile since Havoc was in (last November)but wouldn't it be nice to have a break?
Posted by: Good_Karma

Re: Havoc is Not Right - 08/14/12 03:33 PM

Wow, a strange combination of things going on. I hope the vet exam and tests give you an easy answer to his listlessness. hugging Maybe it's nothing. crossedfingers
Posted by: Kayos

Re: Havoc is Not Right - 08/14/12 03:41 PM

I really think it may just be depression. He does not like Lydi very much but is doing better with her. I don't know.

This same kind of "off" behavior happened with Wolfie, my white GSD. We thought it was due to the summer heat as he did not like the heat much. I ignored it, went to Chicago to visit my dad who had cancer, came back and a few days later Wolf collapsed, we rushed him to the vet at 11 PM and he was bleeding internally. I had to return to Chicago for my dad 2 days after that and we lost Wolfie to Hemangiosarcoma while I was gone. It was upsetting.

Havoc may be nothing but I do not want another Wolfie on my conscience if he is not okay.
Posted by: Lynn P

Re: Havoc is Not Right - 08/14/12 03:43 PM

Kathy, just sending positive energy.. my initial thought was maybe he picked up what ever Lydia had.
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Havoc is Not Right - 08/14/12 04:49 PM

Originally Posted By: Kayos

Havoc may be nothing but I do not want another Wolfie on my conscience if he is not okay.


Kathy, the necessity of running back and forth to Chicago while Wolfie was ill MUST be a once-in-a-lifetime nightmare. But believe me, I know that you will only be satisfied to get Havoc checked out.

Everybody hopes it's a false alarm-'sibling' rivalry thing.

Mary Jane
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: Havoc is Not Right - 08/14/12 05:05 PM

Kathy,

Chama and Rafi were/are both jealous dogs and got depressed when adding new pack members but neither has gotten sick because of it.

What about tick disease? Is that a possibility?
Posted by: LauraHolder

Re: Havoc is Not Right - 08/14/12 05:41 PM

Don't have any words of advise, but sending healing energy your way, Kathy.
Posted by: ozzyandsandi

Re: Havoc is Not Right - 08/14/12 05:46 PM

No advice here either, but thinking of you Kathy.
Posted by: Kayos

Re: Havoc is Not Right - 08/14/12 06:28 PM

Ruth anything is possible but he has not been tick bit this year. It has been on my list to talk to the vet about tho. When he got listless it was one of my first thoughts but again, no tick bites this year unless I missed one.
Posted by: AngelJ

Re: Havoc is Not Right - 08/14/12 06:38 PM

Sending good thoughts. Hoping you can get some answers at the vet tomorrow.
Posted by: TRITON

Re: Havoc is Not Right - 08/14/12 07:35 PM

Sending positive thoughts also, I'm with Lynn and wonder if he picked up the same bug lydia had. Keep us posted and thinking about you!
Posted by: middleofnowhere

Re: Havoc is Not Right - 08/14/12 08:06 PM

Ah, Kathy! Hope Mr. PIA is back to feeling like himself soon. This is such a worry.
Posted by: SeanRescueMom

Re: Havoc is Not Right - 08/14/12 08:44 PM

Originally Posted By: ozzyandsandi
No advice here either, but thinking of you Kathy.


Same here, thinking of Havoc and you. hugging My sincere condolences for your father-in-law.
Posted by: JeanKBBMMMAAN

Re: Havoc is Not Right - 08/14/12 08:57 PM

Wow that's odd huh? The diarrhea...you wonder if these are a bunch of different things or what. Poor dog and the worries. http://www.petplace.com/dogs/joint-effusion-swelling/page2.aspx I did a quick google on my phone and couldn't read it all due to their popup so I hope it is as simple as the first part of the article sounded. Good luck at the vet!
Posted by: DancingCavy

Re: Havoc is Not Right - 08/14/12 09:10 PM

I'm sorry Havie isn't feeling well. My first thoughts were the bug Lydi had and/or tick-borne disease. Unfortunately, some of those ticks are so SMALL that it's easy to miss one. As much as it sucks to run the blood work, sometimes it's worth ruling it out.

I hope it's nothing and he's just a bit upset over the newest addition or the heat. But I'm sure you'll feel better once you get him checked over.

Sending positive thoughts your way.
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: Havoc is Not Right - 08/14/12 10:18 PM

I will keep Havoc in my thoughts. I hope he is better soon.

You must be so worried. hugging
Posted by: bianca

Re: Havoc is Not Right - 08/15/12 03:39 AM

Oh Kathy, I am so sorry to read this. Keeping you all in my prayers for an easy answer tomorrow hugging A gentle pat for Havoc paw

I am so sorry about your FIL hugging
Posted by: Qyn

Re: Havoc is Not Right - 08/15/12 07:08 AM

Sorry to read about Joe's Dad. hugging

I hope Havoc is going to be okay - it is quite possible it is the after effects of what troubled Lydi. You have had so much going even minor things can sneak up. hugging
Posted by: Braverhund

Re: Havoc is Not Right - 08/15/12 08:22 AM

Sending tons of positive energy for Havoc. And for you, too, Kathy. hugging I, too, am hoping that you'll have a full tick panel run. Grimm (and many other dogs) have gotten tick diseases without their owners noticing ticks on them. Plus, Grimm's mood picked up considerably once his tick disease was treated. Whatever the cause, count on much positive thoughts and vibes being sent out for Havoc. bloomrose He just has to have something easily treatable and fixable! crossedfingers
Posted by: Natalie559

Re: Havoc is Not Right - 08/15/12 08:32 AM

Hoping the best for Havoc!
Posted by: Barb E

Re: Havoc is Not Right - 08/15/12 09:16 AM

*Zooming good thoughts East*
Posted by: Kayos

Re: Havoc is Not Right - 08/15/12 11:03 AM

Well...... Havoc was not pleased that his car ride did not end up at the park. I think he thought mom was taking him for a special outing.

They are going to draw blood for a full panel and heartworm check. Will also draw enough for a tick panel if everything else is normal. Funny, the first question doc asked us was if he had been tick bit. I said not to my knowledge but that really is meaningless. He could have been and I did not know it even tho I have my hands on him every day.

Will also check his urine.

Going to xray his legs and shoulders but doc could not feel anything and Havoc did not seem like it bothered him. He did not like his left ear being messed with and he has a broken tooth which I knew about, it has been broken a long time and is from playing fetch. Could be he has an ear infection and his tooth hurts (he had a dental in Nov 2011). I have been messing with his ears and he has not seemed to have been bothered by it. But I have also found that he will not show discomfort to me but might react to someone else.

Depending on what shows up or does not show up he might consider a round of doxycycline anyway.

Will know more tonight.
Posted by: FG167

Re: Havoc is Not Right - 08/15/12 11:49 AM

Good thoughts your way! Hopefully you get some answers soon!
Posted by: Charlotte

Re: Havoc is Not Right - 08/15/12 12:18 PM

Good thoughts coming your way! hugging
Posted by: elisabeth

Re: Havoc is Not Right - 08/15/12 01:56 PM

Oh many... thoughts zooming your way!
Posted by: Cassidy's Mom

Re: Havoc is Not Right - 08/15/12 02:25 PM

Oh no, not right on top of Lydi getting sick. Hoping for some good news that everything is okay.
Posted by: Good_Karma

Re: Havoc is Not Right - 08/15/12 05:03 PM

Lots of good luck wishes sent your way. Will be anxiously awaiting your update...
Posted by: Kayos

Re: Havoc is Not Right - 08/15/12 05:19 PM

Heading to the vet to pick him up in a few minutes. So far, blood work is boringly normal.
Posted by: Braverhund

Re: Havoc is Not Right - 08/15/12 05:26 PM

I'm glad you're off to pick Havoc up. I'm hoping only for good things. crossedfingers crossedfingers crossedfingers
Posted by: GraciesMommy

Re: Havoc is Not Right - 08/15/12 08:14 PM

Hi, just seeing this. Sending hugging your way hoping that Havoc is fine and condolences on the loss of Joe's dad.
Posted by: cassadee7

Re: Havoc is Not Right - 08/15/12 09:07 PM

Oh goodness, I didn't check the boards all week and came back to see this. So sorry you are having more troubles Kathy, it just isn't fair. I pray it is nothing serious and he is just fine.
Posted by: Kayos

Re: Havoc is Not Right - 08/15/12 09:39 PM

Well, bloodwork is perfect, everything is almost midrange. UA is perfect. No heart worms. Xrays normal. Ears are clear. Tooth is okay, the end of the canine is chipped off but seems okay for now.

We think he has a soft tissue injury so we are resting. Tick panel was sent off but vet feels it will be negative as there is absolutely no other indication on his chemistry to indicate tick disease.

I think Havoc hurt himself jumping.

But we have a good baseline now.

We have spent $2000 at the vet in less than 1 month between Kayos' xrays and HA injections, Lydi being sick and now Havoc. Everybody better stay healthy. I still need heartworm preventive and Adequan for Kayos within the next 3 weeks.
Posted by: mspiker03

Re: Havoc is Not Right - 08/15/12 09:48 PM

Assuming it is just an injury, I have had really good luck with Arnica. My dogs have been more apt to stub a toe or tweak an ankle running off leash in the woods (over logs/rocks and uneven terrain) and I have used it several time and have always been amazed at how fast it has worked for us.

Hope he feels better soon!
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: Havoc is Not Right - 08/15/12 09:48 PM

What great care you take of your dogs. I hope you will have the chance for some healthy and worry free times now.

Havoc - slow down!
Posted by: Qyn

Re: Havoc is Not Right - 08/15/12 10:40 PM

Boring and normal is what I like to hear in situations like this. thumbup

Thanks for the update, Kathy. smile
Posted by: Woodreb

Re: Havoc is Not Right - 08/15/12 11:07 PM

I'm glad to hear that Havoc checked out OK. I'd rather a soft tissue any day over the "C" word or even a tick disease.

Hope everyone manages to stay healthy now.

I know the feeling about the vet bills, when Caleb broke a tooth off at the gum line, Aodhán decided to start knuckling under on a back paw, so they could both go to the vet and keep one another company. But I don't think our bill back then was that much.
Posted by: bianca

Re: Havoc is Not Right - 08/16/12 04:24 AM

I am so happy to read this, well not that we want him to have any injury. Sending positive thoughts that your pack can stay away from the vets for a long time (excluding Kayos and her HA injections).

I know what you mean, since we have been living down here, I am just over the 2 grand mark for Cooper and his elbows frown
Posted by: DnP

Re: Havoc is Not Right - 08/16/12 06:39 AM

Happy for you to hear the bloodwork came back good and other stuff is clear. Positve vibes that the tick panel comes back clear...

Sorry about the possible soft tissue injury, but I agree, better than hearing the C word.

Ouch on the hit to the wallet...big ouch!
Posted by: Good_Karma

Re: Havoc is Not Right - 08/16/12 07:02 AM

Out of all the things it could have been, glad it was something that will heal up!! Whew...
Posted by: Braverhund

Re: Havoc is Not Right - 08/16/12 07:05 AM

Like the arnica suggestion! I'm so relieved Havoc is okay. My dogs have tweaked soft tissue and limped/moped for a while, but keeping them quiet as it heals helps. May your pack stay healthy! crossedfingers
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Havoc is Not Right - 08/16/12 08:15 AM

Originally Posted By: Good_Karma
Out of all the things it could have been, glad it was something that will heal up!! ...


Now you can return your attention to somehow spending Lydi's energy in something productive, while Havoc rests quietly from a distance.

Good luck to all of you,
MJ
Posted by: Kayos

Re: Havoc is Not Right - 08/16/12 09:20 AM

Expending Lydi's energy is not possible. smile

I did take Havie for a short walk this morning and he was happy to get out. can't afford to go anywhere or do anything now so I will just walk dogs adn go hungry (not really). I will need to watch it at the grocery store this weekened tho. Have not had to do that for awhile.
Posted by: Natalie559

Re: Havoc is Not Right - 08/16/12 09:48 AM

Ouch is right on those bills- but glad Havoc has nothing serious going on.
Posted by: Barb E

Re: Havoc is Not Right - 08/16/12 09:53 AM

Very glad to hear that nothing really bad reared an ugly head!!

I hear ya on the vet bills - I can stretch Quinoa a long way rofl as found when Kaos and Dante had their recent visits so close together.

Just another good example of my adage that when someone says "I can't afford $XXXX.XX for a dog" they can't afford to own a dog!!

So now, let's you and I just have healthy, no eating anything weird, etc, dogs for awhile!!

hugging

Oh and when I took my shower yesterday I thought of you and Mayhem...errrr Lydia rofl
Posted by: GrandJan

Re: Havoc is Not Right - 08/16/12 10:49 AM

Originally Posted By: Qyn
Boring and normal is what I like to hear in situations like this. thumbup

Ditto!

Kids are going back to college soon and I hear there are good sales on boxed mac 'n cheese and ramen noodles! laugh
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Havoc is Not Right - 08/16/12 11:56 AM

I so hear you on the vet bills! I am still recovering from Max, it's difficult.

How is his digestion now?
Posted by: Kayos

Re: Havoc is Not Right - 08/16/12 01:28 PM

Better, but he had one solid poo and one runny one this morning. Runny one was while we were walking. It was still dark so I picked up as much as I could which was not much. Yukkyyy.
Posted by: Braverhund

Re: Havoc is Not Right - 08/16/12 01:43 PM

Maybe a bit of Slippery Elm, and Homeopathic "Digestive Upsets" to help see him through? Some probiotics, too? Is his eating and drinking okay?
Posted by: Kayos

Re: Havoc is Not Right - 08/16/12 05:18 PM

Yes he is. I usually give pumpkin in these cases. He does get probiotics already. Never have tried slippery elm.
Posted by: mspiker03

Re: Havoc is Not Right - 08/16/12 08:44 PM

Originally Posted By: Braverhund
Like the arnica suggestion! I'm so relieved Havoc is okay. My dogs have tweaked soft tissue and limped/moped for a while, but keeping them quiet as it heals helps. May your pack stay healthy! crossedfingers


Patti - I was kinda skeptical of arnica at first until I tried it a couple of months ago when Levi was limping and after 24 hours or so he was no longer limping. I was seriously amazed! Levi stubbed his toe last Friday or so (was limping) and it was back to Arnica; now I am tapering it off and walking him a little more.

Hope Havoc continues to get better!
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Havoc is Not Right - 08/16/12 08:47 PM

Originally Posted By: Kayos
Better, but he had one solid poo and one runny one this morning. Runny one was while we were walking. It was still dark so I picked up as much as I could which was not much. Yukkyyy.

This is what makes me suspicious of chalking up the incident to "soft tissue". Sound like there is a digestive issue going on - I can understand these dogs giving you that look of "fix it now" when their tummies are not right.

I hope it resolves quickly, as well as the soft tissue stuff!
Posted by: bianca

Re: Havoc is Not Right - 08/21/12 07:15 AM

Kathy, how is Havoc now?
Posted by: Kayos

Re: Havoc is Not Right - 08/21/12 01:16 PM

Off and on lameness. He is getting his Joint Health and Arnica now and just resting him. I think he is done with agility. Too much strain on his shoulders.
Posted by: Good_Karma

Re: Havoc is Not Right - 08/21/12 05:23 PM

Aww, sorry to hear that he can't do the agility any more. frown
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Havoc is Not Right - 08/21/12 09:05 PM

Originally Posted By: Kayos
Off and on lameness. He is getting his Joint Health and Arnica now and just resting him. I think he is done with agility. Too much strain on his shoulders.

I'm so sorry frown

Has he ever had a chiropractic adjustment? I should know that, I know, just can't remember.
Posted by: bianca

Re: Havoc is Not Right - 08/22/12 05:08 AM

frown
Posted by: Kayos

Re: Havoc is Not Right - 08/23/12 04:45 PM

Update!

Stopped at vets to pick up Pred for cat and got the tick panel results. Vet was surprised - Havoc is positive for Erlichiosis. It is a low positive but positive nonetheless and he is on Doxy for 30 days.

We almost opted not to run it as his other blood work was perfect. Apparently, the CBC may indicate possible tick disease. In Havoc's CBC was entirely normal. This may be old, he may have had it for awhile. I don't know - just glad we did the panel. Joe and i kind of looked at each other and saif should we? And then said yes we need to know for sure and what the heck, the bill was already out of sight what is $150 more?
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Havoc is Not Right - 08/23/12 06:22 PM

This does not surprise me for some reason.

Kathy, do you have a copy of the bloodwork? If you're willing to share, I would be interested in seeing it.

If this is an old infection in particular, I would follow more aggressive treatment.

This may be affecting his behaviour.
Posted by: Kayos

Re: Havoc is Not Right - 08/23/12 06:54 PM

I do have it but my scanner is persnickity. I may have to just right it out for you after dinner.

I thought the same thing about his behavior. I do believe this may be an old infection.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Havoc is Not Right - 08/23/12 08:08 PM

Sometimes you can take a picture with your cell and send it to your email to your computer and upload, if you can't upload directly from the phone.

Would also be interested in weight and dosage.
Posted by: Kayos

Re: Havoc is Not Right - 08/23/12 09:32 PM

K. I can give that a try. I just came in from outside exercising dogs and going to bed. Have to work tomorrow but I might take it to work with me. It will be a quiet day at the office anyway.

He is getting 4 a day and weighs 81 pounds. Not sure what strenght the capsule is.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Havoc is Not Right - 08/23/12 11:02 PM

I sure am glad that this showed up on the test and that you ran that test!

The dose is the conservative dose. Some vets underdose even the conservative dose.

Will jot some notes for your consideration a bit later.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Havoc is Not Right - 08/24/12 01:28 AM

A few notes....many things which you probably know, so forgive me if I repeat.

The aggressive dose used by the "tick vets" on the list and others is twice the dosage for twice as long, particularly for long standing infections. The goal is to reduce the chance of it flaring up, as this is an infection of the bone marrow and the blood vessels themselves, which can be particularly stubborn. Doxy in higher doses kills the organisms. At the conservative dose will keep them from multiplying and will depend on the competency of the immune system more than with the higher doses. Of course, doxy always with food, and if there are signs of acidity, you can take steps to mitigate that.

GSDs are particularly susceptible to the chronic form of ehrlichia by nature of their immune systems frown Infection is a process that, once past the initial stage, can take years to show up in the bloodwork. Since there is nothing glaring in the bloodwork, it's good that it's not severely advanced. Infection *and* treatment is hard on the liver, liver support is always recommended when treatment is started. Of course, probiotics.

As a matter of preference, I like to have something to monitor what is going on. Not just for this round, but assume that you are in this for longer than 30 days. You want to be able to check in in and see how his body is doing, even years after treatment has ended. There is no perfect way to do this. Two tools available to you would be titers, the type that SLEACHY has been using with Tooz, through Protatek, is the tick list preference (I believe that Tooz's are run yearly, you can always ask), and also regular bloodwork. I would consider running bloodwork (blood counts and liver values, I just run a panel since it's more cost effective) before stopping the doxy, and then every 2-3 months after treatment for a few times, then every 6 months for a few times and go from there. This is not only to look signs of recurrence or active disease, but to establish baselines for if there are future problems. This is one reason I'd like to see the bloodwork, just looking for something that would allow you to monitor and evaluate treatment. There was someone on the old forum that knew their dog's Anaplasmosis was flaring when their dog started losing hair on their toes - weird, huh?
Posted by: Braverhund

Re: Havoc is Not Right - 08/24/12 07:41 AM

Something else to add, is that tick disease affects the mood of the dog in some cases, too. Grimm was irritable when he had ehlichia and anaplasma. Grimm has a normally very sunny disposition! My sense was that he had a headache, as he seemed less happy about having his head petted-- and his ears were clean and fine. It did take about 1 week on the Doxy before I saw his mood return to silly-happy.

Just thinkin' about Havoc and Lydi. You've already done beautifully and have seen improvement in their situation, but considering treatment for TBD can help Havoc feel better and possibly feel more tolerant soon. crossedfingers
Posted by: Kayos

Re: Havoc is Not Right - 08/24/12 08:57 AM

I hope these are readable. I had to take a picture and then do a screen capture to get them to rotate, everytime I try to rotate an image on my work computer it won't let me save.

Vet said ignore the platelets, almost impossible to get accurate platelet count.



Posted by: Kayos

Re: Havoc is Not Right - 08/24/12 09:17 AM

Actually looking at this again, although all the liver values are in the normal range they are either low normal or high normal.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Havoc is Not Right - 08/24/12 03:36 PM

I had a long reply typed on my tiny phone window and it shut down and I lost it. Hate that!!!


Originally Posted By: Kayos
Vet said ignore the platelets, almost impossible to get accurate platelet count.

That's a machine count, and an estimate, not as accurate as a hand count, but it's a ballpark figure. AND it's a clue that something was wrong. They aren't a smidgen low, nor are they clumped. One hallmark of Ehrlichia is low platelets, so expect that number to change. Also, dogs with Ehrlichia have a protein in their blood which will cause it to clump, so the next draw may come back as clumped.

The MPV is roughly the size of the platelets (average volume), and large platelets are the new ones. That MPV tending to the high end I believe is showing that the body has been making new platelets (to replace the ones lost).

The platelets will be important for you to monitor. The machine count will never be "accurate", but can still be interpreted. The labs I've used didn't have the MPV, so it will be interesting to see how that changes, I don't have a much experience with the MPV, Idexx just notes "LARGE" in their platelet comments after the slide has been reviewed.

The low liver values are great news! The elevated GGT alone I do not know - it is common in Ehrlichia for the GGT and the ALT to be elevated, perhaps you caught it at just the right time! I always recommend starting liver support with therapy, many dogs on the tick list have had rising liver enzymes once the doxy has started and there is die off.

You may see him feeling much better in just a matter of days crossedfingers
Posted by: Kayos

Re: Havoc is Not Right - 08/24/12 04:22 PM

Cool!!!! I thought just the opposite with the liver values but that shows you I do not know squat.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Havoc is Not Right - 08/24/12 05:09 PM

Originally Posted By: Kayos
Cool!!!! I thought just the opposite with the liver values but that shows you I do not know squat.


LOL, it's good you don't know - means you haven't had to deal with those issues before!
Posted by: Kayos

Re: Havoc is Not Right - 08/25/12 07:45 AM

I thought this would never happen to me...... But that is foolish thinking. Thanks for your help. Two days on 400mg of doxy and he is the same.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Havoc is Not Right - 08/25/12 10:15 AM

This darn stuff I everywhere, it's terrible.

And I swear that Max came here originally with something nasty tickwise that he brought from OK, where he was born frown

Response may not be as rapid on the lower dose, I dunno.
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: Havoc is Not Right - 08/25/12 10:18 AM

I am so glad that you have a diagnosis and that Havoc is responding well to the doxy. Maybe this will help his mood overall and he will turn into an excellent big brother. crossedfingers
Posted by: Kayos

Re: Havoc is Not Right - 08/25/12 04:11 PM

He is doing much better with Lydi. LAst night they played together for about 15 minutes before I separated them. I do not want him over the top and then biting at her.
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Havoc is Not Right - 08/25/12 05:34 PM

Originally Posted By: BowWowMeow
he will turn into an excellent big brother. crossedfingers
.......
Originally Posted By: Kayos
He is doing much better with Lydi.


Well there you are.

I can only imagine that it's not easy. But I can only guess how rewarding it must be to complement your human family with a dog family.

The medical news sounds promising.

Mary Jane
Posted by: Good_Karma

Re: Havoc is Not Right - 08/25/12 06:04 PM

Originally Posted By: Kayos
He is doing much better with Lydi. LAst night they played together for about 15 minutes before I separated them. I do not want him over the top and then biting at her.


GREAT NEWS!!!! party
Posted by: Woodreb

Re: Havoc is Not Right - 08/25/12 08:54 PM

Originally Posted By: Good_Karma
Originally Posted By: Kayos
He is doing much better with Lydi. LAst night they played together for about 15 minutes before I separated them. I do not want him over the top and then biting at her.


GREAT NEWS!!!! party


Awesome thumbup groovy happyboogie party
Posted by: TRITON

Re: Havoc is Not Right - 08/26/12 10:42 AM

Thats good news Kathy smile