Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh

Posted by: MaxaLisa

Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 06/28/13 03:50 AM

Today Jazz and I made the trek west today and had the consult with the homeopathic vet. It feels like I am starting fresh with treating Jazz, so I just felt a fresh thread was warranted, continued from here: http://germanshepherdhome.net/forum/ubbt...ways#Post275297

Turns out that we aren't starting with homeopathics, but, as always with this vet, very pleased with everything she picked up.

I guess the good news, from her veiwpoint, is that all of these issues seems to stem from the same imbalance, and she's fairly confident that we'll be able to get her past all of this, with some work, and this shouldn't turn into a lifetime of chronic disease. So nice to hear that.

Interesting, and I should have thought of this, but one of the emotions of the kidneys is fear ("... The emotions of the kidneys are fear and willpower. When the energy of the kidneys is weak, a person lives more in fear and acts with less determination than that of a person with stronger Kidney Qi. When the energy of the kidneys is strong, the person makes bold decisions and follows through with a strong mindset." http://moveyourqi.com/water.html ). So it might make some energetic sense that her panic attacks improve with her urinary symptoms on antibiotics.

The vet is going to focus on spleen, stomach and pancreas. We have a couple of herbals to try that I have to order (hopefully she isn't allergic), and she received an acupuncture treatment, which I think she responded really well to. The vet found a place in her back (related to stomach points) that were pretty blocked, and found sensitive areas in her low back. I have found these before and have tried to work on them, but they needed something more than I could do. Disappointed that the holistic vet that I've sorta been working with here in town never even bothered to do a similar evaluation.

In about 3 weeks, I am going to attend a seminar with Jazz that will help teach us tools to help access some of her emotional issues through body work. I don't quite understand it and how it's done in dogs, it's called psychomotor therapy, and this is about the only link that I can find: http://www.goodtherapy.org/Psychomotor.html I know that this vet has practiced this since I first took Indy to her (2001?), and I've always been curious about it, so I guess now is the time to learn. She and another person are conducting the class.

I guess I will be making more long distance trips in the future, it's about a 2 1/2 hour drive, but there are things that I'm supposed to learn here.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 06/28/13 03:51 AM

Jazz gets acupuncture laugh

In the middle here is one place where my energy is blocked:


No, that antenna sticking out of my head is not for picking up alien signals smile
Posted by: bianca

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 06/28/13 04:29 AM

Gosh she really is just so darn beautiful wub wub

It's so good to hear you sound so positive and optimistic Lisa. It's about time the two of you can enjoy each other without any health issues hugging hugging
Posted by: ozzyandsandi

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 06/28/13 07:36 AM

She is so cute. There is a book, it is all about problems with our bodies and what causes them, like kidneys and fear, lungs and not being able to let go of anger. I can't remember the name, but it could help just to read it.
http://maureenminnehanjones.com/Portals/4/newspaper%20article%20CSH_spring_1-2.pdf

Not sure if that is the one recommended to me, but it seems very similar.
Posted by: JakodaCD OA

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 06/28/13 07:47 AM

good news:) She looks very relaxed getting her acupuncture!

Hope your journey with her teaches you many things and she is on the road to a full recovery:)
Posted by: Kayos

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 06/28/13 08:00 AM

She is very cute. And although I am interested to see how this works out I have a hard time with a lot of woowoo stuff.
Posted by: TimberWolf

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 06/28/13 08:37 AM

Lisa, wow, sounds like a new adventure in gaining knowledge for you and Jazzy. The "energy" evaluations is very fascinating to me. The stomach and digestive system also is connected to fear and will be affected by being fearful or letting stress get out of control. I am interested to hear from you how your training will go. Anything you could share would be appreciated.

She is so adorable. How did she do with the needles? Was she calm through the process?

I am glad you found a Vet who seems to be more knowledgable in how to treat Jazzy. What a relief that this is not going to be a chronic issue. So, there is an end to this.

Thanks for the update.
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 06/28/13 09:14 AM

This homeopath is clearly someone you have confidence in and if she can recommend a program that you and Jazz carry out, I think the exercise itself can be curative-whatever its principle. I couldn't make heads or tails of the link-but you will determine in the real world how it works out with Miss Jazmine.

She is such a doll.

You did just get a new car didn't you, so you're equipped for long drives smile.

MJ
Posted by: Woodreb

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 06/28/13 09:49 AM

Originally Posted By: Kayos
She is very cute. And although I am interested to see how this works out I have a hard time with a lot of woowoo stuff.


Kathy - To put some of this in perspective, as a chemist, here's my take on it.

There's plenty of evidence out there that there are chemicals released in our bodies (dogs, too) that are associated with what we consider emotional responses. For example take a look at this article: Chemistry of Fear

Those chemicals ultimately have to be processed in the body somewhere and the liver and kidneys are the bodies first line of defense. So I think there is some scientific basis for the supposition presented by the vet.
Posted by: SeanRescueMom

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 06/28/13 10:41 AM

What Johanna said makes perfect sense, the doctor had said the same thing about my daughter regarding her autoimmune illness.

Love the last pic of Jazz. wub
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 06/28/13 02:47 PM

Thanks everyone!

I just ordered the herbals - she sends them into her local herbal pharmacy and I go online and order it....kinda cool, though I wish I were in town to avoid shipping and the dreaded handling.

I have no idea what this class will be about (it's a 7 hour workshop), but hopefully I will have some words afterwards to describe it. It's on 7/20. Interesting about that article Patti.

She did great with the needles. Shortly after the vet left the room for the bit, she had a frenzy of activity where she just wanted to bite everywhere (but not the needles), but then she relaxed and I took the pics. Putting the needles in, she was great, didn't flinch anywhere, and behave so well wub

We went for a walk later, and she got roughed up by a few dogs frown I now understand why owners of small dogs pick their dogs up. People are idiots, and people with rude dogs that won't put their cell phones down are even worse idiots. I'm keeping her with me today to watch, she's pretty ouchy, and I don't know if that's from the release, or what.

She's had so much fatigue lately, I really think that her thyroid is playing a role here. I'm going to start her on this: https://www.standardprocess.com/Products/Veterinary-Formulas/Canine-Thyroid-Support

Posted by: anniej

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 06/28/13 03:24 PM

Jazz is taking you on a journey and I don't mean a 'road trip' ! I am so pleased you have found a vet who you can trust - the basis of any good relationship. I am sure that Jazz emotional and physical health will improve rapidly now you have found the right person to help - just look at the trust in the face of Jazz with the needles stuck in her - she knows she is in the right place:)
Posted by: TimberWolf

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 06/28/13 04:28 PM

Lisa, what do you mean "roughed up"? Was she attacked and bitten or was there a situation with other dogs that really scared her? Worried about little Jazzy. What herbs did she prescribe? I would be interested in knowing.

I hope this new approach will have lasting effects, not only on Jazzy but also on you. Learning what part of our body is connected to what emotions helps us people as well and empowers us to process situations differently.

Hugs
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 06/28/13 06:32 PM

Love the pics! Hope this new path is a good one! Mr. Rafi got acupuncture today and he had about 20 needles in him but she was treating some of the same points on him as on Jazz. When she put the needles in for the liver points they started vibrating! wow Then he just about fell over and went to sleep for an hour while he "cooked."

When we left he was noticeably feeling better and leapt into the back of the truck. I will be taking him in more often and fortunately she is only 12 minutes from my house (and acupuncture is only $40).
Posted by: bianca

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 06/29/13 03:35 AM

Oh no I hope she is ok after the walk?
Posted by: RileyAnna

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 06/29/13 07:25 AM

Surely hope this works for both of you. And since you brought up fear, I'm heading for the Whole Foods to buy aduki beans and kumbu. Very healing for the kidneys. I used to follow the Macro diet. I've been feeling very fearful since I lost my job a year ago and feel stuck. Thanks Lisa for all this info. Look forward to your posts regarding your progress.
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 06/29/13 02:17 PM

Originally Posted By: LMS
Lisa, what do you mean "roughed up"?



????????????
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 06/29/13 04:41 PM

Sorry to disappear, wanted to wait until I got to the laptop and could also get the names of the herbs.

Jazz met a lot of dogs when we went walking by the Bay. Unfortunately, about 4 dogs took too much of an interest in her. I was able to walk into one and just told him that this wasn't going to happen today, and he lowered his head and walked away. The young GSD mix wasn't so accommodating, but his owner was on top of things - Jazz screamed just before he touched her and that got everyone's attention. The two that she had an altercation - one was at the beginning of the walk and the other at the end.

The first one was some kind of boxer or dane mix, tall, lanky, young, kept keying off Jazz and coming close, and I kept walking in between them trying to get him away. His idiot owners wouldn't get off the phone. Just as I went to pick her up, she darted away, I turned, and he had rolled her, she was vocalizing in fear or pain, and they were still on their frickin' phones. I told them it would help if they got off their phones, and they just laughed. We ran into them a couple of times, and they just laughed at jazz and let their dog taunt her. I just rolled my eyes and called them idiots and got her out of there.

The second one was a dog not much taller than her, but buff, some kind of staffy terrior pitty mix (I don't know my breeds). They were frozen right next to each other, and I knew as soon as I moved something would happen, and sure enough, he aggressed (is that a word?), and I got in between them and yelled off the dog as the owner, who was quite some distance, called the dog. At least they weren't idiots.

So, she didn't have a great time, though she played with some smaller dogs, but was tired and sore, and had some scuff marks on her belly, which calendula/hypericum creme took care of. I kept her home from daycare on Friday, just wanted to let her sleep it off.

Not completely sure she was relatively unscathed, made a chiro appt for Tuesday frown

But overall, she is okay.

Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 06/29/13 05:24 PM

Ruth, Jazz had that vibrating thing too, to some degree. She had that when I first got her, but I used my red light acupuncture thing and a few chiro appts and most of it went away. But very few things can get the depth of the acu needles, and it does help to have a vet that knows exactly where to put them!!

She's been prescribed two herbals that I presume are chinese formulations:
Shu Gan Formula - Extra Concentrate, as her main herbal, and
Intestinal Fungus Formula - Extra Concentrate, which will be cooling. Since she responds to abx, which are cooling, she should respond to the IFF, but cooling will either make things move to fast or be constipating (probably the latter, can't remember which), so things may get a bit worse while she is getting better.

Maybe once we get her a bit more stabilized, I might be able to introduce more things into her diet.
Posted by: TimberWolf

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 06/30/13 12:05 AM

Wow, Lisa what a day for you two. There are so many irresponsible owners out and being on the phone makes a loud statement to me that they really don't care about their dogs. If they cared, they would take that time and devote it to actually spend with their dogs. It's so sad.

I hope these herbs will help Jazzy.

Wishing you two a nice weekend.
Posted by: bianca

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 06/30/13 06:01 AM

Oh no, that makes me so p'd off for you frown Poor sweet Jazz hugging
Posted by: middleofnowhere

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 06/30/13 09:06 AM

I am amazed at those of you that know what each needle does. I just turn mine over to the vet, she does the chiro adjustments, sticks the needles in, lets them sit and we chat. The dogs get loaded in the car afterward for the ride home. The late Barker the Elder loved her treatments and the chiro had immediate effects for her mobility and comfort.

I'm sorry your walk went the wrong way. It brings to mind my thoughts of carrying a paintball gun for loose dogs. Fortunately, we've been lucky lately.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 06/30/13 01:45 PM

Thanks - good thing is that right now Jazz seems pretty resilient, but she sure is getting dog wary frown With Indy, dogs left her alone for the most part. With Max, I had to watch out for him most of the time, and now, Jazz seems to be a target and brings attention from other dogs. This situation is definitely the scariest, trying to maintain balance, so I don't feed that fear, yet I keep her safe.

middle, I haven't really a clue what each needle means - I know a bit, but not much at all. Just, like you, very glad to bring them home and let them continue to soak in the good feelings.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 06/30/13 04:49 PM

Okay, so Jazz had her acupuncture on thursday, and we had a really long day. She slept A LOT after that, and was sleeping before that too, I've been pretty concerned.

Seems like she decided to wake up about 11pm on Saturday night, and wanted to play. Even slept downstairs?????? Today, very playful.

Seems like she has been unblocked? Either that, or it was something dietary. I guess we'll find out.....

Oh, I guess this is the vet's short description of the class: http://www.healingpetsnaturally.com/psychomotor-therapy/
Posted by: TimberWolf

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 06/30/13 05:15 PM

Lisa, it could be that the acupuncture released some toxins and her body was probably processing it. If she is back to her regular energy level today, then that is probably what it was.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 06/30/13 05:28 PM

I'm thinking that's exactly what it was Elvi. I'm looking forward to getting her completely well!
Posted by: TimberWolf

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 06/30/13 05:53 PM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
I'm looking forward to getting her completely well!


Yes, we all do. We are standing with you Lisa. May not have as extensive knowledge regarding medical issues, etc but you two are constantly on my mind for a turn-around and and end to this ridiculous misery.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 06/30/13 10:23 PM

"ridiculous mystery" is a great description - thank you for the support!

One other thing the vet said about her increased symptoms lately, is that when she was first adopted, she was not as healthy as she is now, overall. Since her body is stronger, she is more able to express more symptoms. Thought that was an interesting comment.
Posted by: TimberWolf

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 06/30/13 10:52 PM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
One other thing the vet said about her increased symptoms lately, is that when she was first adopted, she was not as healthy as she is now, overall. Since her body is stronger, she is more able to express more symptoms. Thought that was an interesting comment.


Not sure that makes sense but that may just be me. Definitely interesting.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 06/30/13 11:29 PM

I think it's along the lines of a healing crisis, but maybe a slight bit different. As the body gets stronger, it gets better able to address chronic disease. I don't have enough experience in with that, but I know that this vet does, so I guess I'll go with it smile
Posted by: bianca

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 07/01/13 03:49 AM

I know we have all mentioned it before, but Jazz is the luckiest girl in the world to have you hugging


Yeehaw 11pm playtimes!!!! smile
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 07/01/13 11:12 AM

laugh
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 07/01/13 06:49 PM

Agreed!

Jazz's life could have been much different - or shorter. frown
Posted by: SeanRescueMom

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 07/01/13 10:18 PM

Originally Posted By: bianca
I know we have all mentioned it before, but Jazz is the luckiest girl in the world to have you hugging


So true! thumbup
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 07/02/13 01:07 AM

Thank you guys blush

I've been thinking a lot about her coming into my life. I guess she was meant to guide me somehow on the next part of my journey. Of course, would be a lot nicer if we could have some more fun doing it, but hopefully that will be down the line.

I did discover that she HATES the taste of kelp.....
Posted by: TimberWolf

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 07/23/13 03:46 PM

Have been REALLY thinking of Jazzy the past couple of days and wanted to check how she is doing.

So, how is she? How are you, Lisa?
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 07/23/13 11:29 PM

Thanks Elvi for checking up on us!!

Jazz had a flair a week or so ago, eating was real hard for her, lots of shivering and such, but we might be almost stable again. It's really hard when she wants to eat, but runs away from it frown I am experimenting again with foodstuffs to see if I can find the magical combination.

I'm disappointed in her urinalysis from last week, just doesn't seem like things are getting better. I need to make an appt with the IMS to see what he thinks, but I've just been putting it off.

The good news I guess is that she might be doing better with some of the change in food. I think I am suspecting the green beans cross-reacting with her peanut allergy. I thought she tested okay for them, but it turns out they weren't on the panel. I am not sure there will be a vegetable that I can feed regularly. I think the grean beans are also what they feed at daycare for snacks, will be bummed if I have to put her on the no food list frown

She loves her conditioning class and the challenge of it. We went to that psychomotor workshop at her vet's last weekend and she did great. Once I learn how to work on her, I think that we will be able to make progress.
Posted by: TimberWolf

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 07/24/13 12:07 AM

That really stinks about Jazzy having had another flair and there not being any change in the urinalysis results after all the adjustments you have made. She is so precious and for any concrete source as to what is causing all this to be so evasive is so messed up. This has got to be very frustrating and exhausting for you. Hang in there. The answer has got to be around the corner.
hugging hugging hugging
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 07/24/13 02:59 AM

Thanks Elvi, we'll get there eventually I presume!
Posted by: bianca

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 07/24/13 04:10 AM

hugging hugging I wish I had some ideas.
Posted by: MSD

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 07/24/13 08:51 AM

MaxaLisa— Oh, I’m so sorry about Jazz having such a hard time. I have been there with my boy wanting to eat but turning his head, spitting food out and even walking away too, it is so hard for anyone to understand unless you’ve been there. I understand and I’m so sorry for you both. I KNOW you know this, but any chance Slippery Elm Bark would help her? We have tried that with great success here. Just once capsule put into a bit of peanut butter, wait and then he will eat. I’m sure you’ve already tried that, but just in case. Hugs to you both. Feel better sweet Jazz.
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 07/24/13 03:47 PM

DId you try Nux Vomica when she was nauseous? THat's what I like to use for animals who are on meds and have lots of sensitivities.

I hope she continues to feel better and that both of you get to enjoy the summer a little! The food stuff is such a challenge...
Posted by: SeanRescueMom

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 07/24/13 04:49 PM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
we'll get there eventually I presume!


Patience is a virtue and you have been the most patient person I know - poor Jazz. hug
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 07/24/13 06:26 PM

I can't stand that picture of Jazz shivering, so I can only guess how you must feel. I do know that however hard it may be to find the solution, you will find it-maybe the IMS can help.

The body work sounds great for you both, you have to tell us how it goes.

Many best wishes to you both,

MJ
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 07/24/13 08:20 PM

Thank you everyone, it's been very difficult and frustrating. Hard to see her so miserable. To shiver and hide from food is so wrong frown Yes, MSD, sounds like the same thing you are experiencing. I have even tried some canned food, but I have to choose between one evil or another becaue of her issues.

Max was allergic to SE, so I have been using marshmallow, which has been helping a lot.

Ruth, I forgot about the nux, thank you for reminding me. Since the vet isn't treating homeopathically, that gives me freedom to do so. I just picked up some nux not long ago, but was waiting until after our last appt, then promptly forgot. Do you think it best to give the night before, or early in the morning before eating - breakfast is the worst for her.
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 07/24/13 10:12 PM

I would dose the nux 15 minutes before offering her food. You can also dose her at night too if you think she's feeling bad then too.
Posted by: m&j

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 07/26/13 07:32 AM

Just catching up. Hugs to you and Jazz!!
Posted by: Shepherds

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 07/30/13 06:20 AM

Hi Lisa...just dropping by to see how you and Miss Jazz are doing???? How are you finding the bodywork and what is involved?
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 08/01/13 03:09 AM

Thank you for checking in on us.

We have a checkup early in the morning with the IMS, so will have omething to write then.

Can't believe my girl is starting to really pack on the weight. I've cut back her food, but it's not help that much. Partly the extra training treat I suspect, but still really suspicious about that thyroid.

Body work is slow going. She doesn't let me work on her back much, very sensitive to the movement of the energy.

I will try to write more about the body work in a bit, want to post this before I lose it, and I have a few things I need to do.
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 08/01/13 06:08 PM

I'm very curious about what you learned from the IMS. Annoying to have such nosy people around isn't it?

MJ
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 08/01/13 08:37 PM

I *really* appreciate that Jazz has a home here an people that care about her, even though she isn't a GSD laugh So nosy makes us feel good smile

I've been a bit negligent. Not feeling so well, also dealing with the folks this summer off and on, and I didn't realize that time had slipped away - I should have had Jazz in last month, so I've basically wasted a month of treatment frown

She hasn't really gotten any better on her current regimen, which is essentially amoxicillin and flagyl. To be honest though, it's taken me awhile to definitely come to that conclusion. Because of the protein in her urinalysis, high Ph, and crystals, I was having a hard time balancing the needs of the gut and the bladder, which are in direct conflict.

So, no huge changes, but he wants me to ignore the urine stuff right now. He thinks the protein is leaking from the gut, and he's not worried about stone formation from infection in her. So that helps me with the diet - I can go back to adding more fiber to the diet, we will try pectin first.

We are dropping the amoxicillin, and, for right now, keeping the flagyl at once every other day. Maybe without the amoxi and with more soluble fiber, we can make better progress. We'll start with pectin. We talked a bit about FOS, but since Max did not do well at all on that, I'm going to hold off for right now.

She has been on cipro, tylan, flagyl, and amoxi. The symptoms that we have been following include digestive, shivering and/or anxiety, and urine issues. The amoxi isn't very effective on any of it, the tylan only a bit on the digestive. The abx that works best for her is cipro, but he's really afraid of using that and creating resistance, in case she gets a big infection and needs it, since that's such a big gun, so we are steering clear of that right now.

We started the amoxi because of the C. Perf, but we are thinking that this was a secondary issue and, while we have to keep an eye on things so it doesn't flair up, we think that's not a central issue that need to directly address at this point. One indicator of this is failure to improve on the amoxi (though there may be resistence, he doesn't think that's the case here).

We did pull blood for a resting cortisol, hoping that it's high enough so that we can cross off addison's. I was worried about messing with stuff and throwing that off, though he also explained to me why he isn't worried about herbals interfering with the addison's test. Most supplements act by enhancing a dog's ability to respond and create their own cortisol. In an Addison's dog, they won't work, because the adrenals won't respond. Makes sense. The only problem is if there is a supplement that actually contains cortisol of some ty[e, or is corrupted and contains some of the drug (like pred or dex) when it isn't supposed to. I should hear about those results by end of Monday. I really like that this vet believes in the power of supplements, in either direction.

The bodywork really isn't that earth shattering, but I need to be in the right mental place to remember and write. Right now I have to go chop up some treats for conditioning class tonight. She really loves this class - we start level 2 tonight, working towards standing up on the balance ball peanut. She got up on it for the first time last week. Interesting to watch, by the end of class, she really is tired and doesn't have a lot of muscle strength left - I do need to work more with her at home though. Trying to get her really comfortable on the wobble board, which she is really nervous about!

I'm off for now, thank you so much for caring about my girl!
Posted by: TimberWolf

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 08/01/13 08:54 PM

Lisa, even though I am not able to add anything due to my lack of medical knowledge just wanted you to know that I am thinking about you two. I think maybe try to give yourself a break. You have so much on your plate right now. Don't forget to take care of yourself, too. Hugs.
Posted by: SeanRescueMom

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 08/01/13 09:17 PM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
I *really* appreciate that Jazz has a home here an people that care about her, even though she isn't a GSD laugh So nosy makes us feel good smile


Of course we care, she's precious. Hugs to both of you. hugging paw
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 08/02/13 02:40 AM

Thank you fetch
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 08/02/13 08:52 AM

Thanks for the update!!! smile
Posted by: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 08/02/13 09:53 AM

Lisa the other day I was thinking about you and Jazz. My thoughts kept going to leaky gut syndrome. I hope that you can get this little gal's health problems straightened out.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 08/02/13 10:25 AM

Gayle! You're welcome! smile

Val, that certainly would make a lot of sense. The good news is that I will be able to work on that with her new abx schedule. I don't understand how we are going to get that inflammation down enough with just flagyl, when we are already using that now. He seem to think that the fiber can make that big of difference, so I will do everything I can.

I did order some slippery elm, in case that works better than the marshmallow for her, but it doe have a higher allergenic potential. I ordered a few other things to try too. If this doesn't work, we are looking at things like pred or pred-like drugs, and I don't want to do that at all.
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 08/02/13 12:37 PM

As a healthcare consumer, I definitely like the idea of fewer medicines, tweaking the diet, and watching closely.

OK, the bodywork isn't earth shattering but I think Jazz is allowed her own preferences with handling. Not knowing exactly what bodywork is, I do know people who don't like massages, hard as it is for me to believe.

I'm trying to picture Jazz standing on a pink balance peanut smile.
Posted by: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 08/02/13 02:42 PM

Lisa you need to remember that inflammation isn't infection. Inflammation is the bodies response to an injury or irritation. The gut is irritated for some reason. I am a big believer in Pre and probiotics there are different sources and you might have to do some research to find one that will work for Jazz. Bad bacteria is the problem, the Pre and probiotics are used at loading dose to push the bad bacteria out, there is only so much room for bacteria good or bad, so you overload the good so there isn't room for the bad to continue to grow.

http://dogdoctor.us/functionalissues/leakygutsyndrome.html

I agree with fiber, the bodies response to to get rid of the food because it might make the dog feel worse, but the tummy doesn't always know what is good for it.

I know you know more about this than I do, I just thought I would throw this stuff out there.

Not sure I would want to do the Pred type drugs either.
Posted by: MSD

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 08/02/13 04:07 PM

MaxaLisa— Hi, you mean Jazz is NOT a (mini) GSD (she winks and smiles)!!! Wish I had advice to make your little one feel better. She is just about the cutest little girl out there. Feel better sweet girl. For the Leaky Gut, have you ever thought about Natren Probiotics (their 1, 2, 3 series)?
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 08/04/13 06:05 PM

LOL MSD, she certainly has the heart and spirit of a mini-GSD wub

Are you talking about these probiotics: http://www.natren.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Store_Code=N&Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=019 ? Pretty pricey, I have never heard of them before, but that doesn't mean that much....

I started her on some Moducare, and I ordered a few things to try (including transfer factor and lemon balm). The lemon balm is supposed to help with stomach cramping, so I'm hoping it might help in the mornings when she is having anxiety.

Val, thanks for the link. Yes, I am sure that there is a component of that going on. She had that remnant vaginal tissue that caused some of the urinary issues, and the C Perf we think was secondary, so maybe we will get lucky and the only thing left is inflammation and not infection.

Mary Jane, the pink one is the donut wub

LOL, if I knew photoshop, I could paste her on top of that!

So far, she seems to not be worse without the amoxicillin, so that's good. She has such infrequent stools, it's hard to say how things are going exactly.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 08/04/13 06:07 PM

Oh, and the IMS wanted me to go slow with the soluble fiber/pectin. I should have asked him how slow is slow, I think I am crawling at a snail pace.....
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 08/04/13 07:16 PM

My sister has used Transfer Factor for years for her aussies. She swears by it and got my Mom giving it to her elderly cat as well.

I hope it helps Jazz.

Um.. a new picture would be good. paranoid

By the way - best deal I have found for coconut is on vitacost - right now you can get 15% more off using promo code 'lunchbox' and it is already on sale, too.

http://www.vitacost.com/nutiva-extra-virgin-unrefined-coconut-oil-organic

I wish vita cost was one of our affiliate links since I buy there quite often.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 08/05/13 12:38 AM

I too wish vitacost were an affiliate! Apparently they don't have a program similar to the others. I just picked up some of that brand at Costco. I am going to try cooking with it too.

I was always afraid to use the TF on Indy or Max, so hoping it works well for Jazz.

Lol, snapped these pics the other day - pardon the laundry pile behind the bear picture (I was sorting). Worried about the colors in the other toy (at least they say they are up to kid standards), but she grabbed that toy and dragged it all around the store, wondering if she recognized a long lost distant cousin smile



Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 08/05/13 02:51 AM

Aw, how cute is that! I worry about stuff in toys too but Rafi loves them and other people are always buying him new toys...
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 08/05/13 08:50 AM

Love those pictures wub ... she's darling!!!
Posted by: Schnickle Fritz

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 08/05/13 10:57 AM

cute photos
Posted by: MSD

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 08/05/13 11:39 AM

Hi MaxaLisa, yes. Here is the 3 step for Natren. I had a casual conversation with someone who says it helped them dramatically and they saw results on their bloodwork, but this was for a human. I'm not sure if appropriate for dogs. They stopped using when they felt better.  Also, we used the Kyolic Moducare so I'm interested to know how Jazz will respond and if you will be doing the trial for the minimum of the 90 days as suggested. Ok, natren, I hope I linked it all correctly. Also, you can buy via amazon affiliate link too. 

1. Megadophilus® is step one in Natren's three-step custom probiotic system. This Lactobacillus acidophilus probiotic product provides support to the small intestine.   
http://www.natren.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Store_Code=N&Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=021

2.  Bifido Factor® is step two in Natren's three-step custom probiotic system. This Bifidobacterium bifidum probiotic product provides support for the large intestine.
http://www.natren.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Store_Code=N&Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=020

3.  Digesta-Lac® is step three in Natren's three-step custom probiotic system. This Lactobacillus bulgaricus probiotic supplement provides support throughout the digestion process*.  
http://www.natren.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Store_Code=N&Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=022
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 08/05/13 03:12 PM

It must be hard to take your eyes off that face.

I hope she is improving with the new strategy for diet and treatment.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 08/05/13 03:24 PM

Thanks wub

MSD, interesting. The #2 is what I think would help her the most, but it contains allergens for her frown
Posted by: TimberWolf

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 08/05/13 09:56 PM

That look. She is so funny!!! So good to see her sweet face again. smile
Posted by: bianca

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 08/06/13 03:35 AM

Oh these made my week wub wub She really is such a darling wub
Posted by: SeanRescueMom

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 08/06/13 10:51 AM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
Worried about the colors in the other toy (at least they say they are up to kid standards), but she grabbed that toy and dragged it all around the store, wondering if she recognized a long lost distant cousin smile


She's not too spoiled, lol. wink I don't blame you one bit for buying the bear, I would have done the exact same thing. She looks so content sitting with it too.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 08/06/13 09:44 PM

She has actually had that bear since last year. She loves that bear....runs to find it when we get home, runs through the house with it in her mouth whining. Brings it up to bed with her too. The nice thing about the doxy dog toy is that is okay to bring outside on the grass smile


Okay, two things.

1. The amoxicillin wasn't doing "nothing". Lots of digestive issues since it was stopped. I will try to up the probiotics and more pectin in the next couple of days, and if that doesn't help, back on the amoxi for the time being.

2. The resting cortisol test came back. It was supposed to be a rule out Addison's, with a value of over 2 being the rule-out. Her value is 0.9, which is even lower than Max's 1.3. So we will be scheduling an Addison's test ($$$$) soon. I'm hoping we can do it on Monday. I gave her some supplements the other day that might mess with things, and I don't want there to be any question.

Even if she doesn't have Addison's, I might be less worried about giving a small physiological dose of pred if that's what we need to get her stable. Geez, if Max used 2.5mg per day, imagine Jazz would need a teeny tiny dose.

This has been on our list of rule outs, but I know that he really didn't expect this. When I asked about running the test at our last visit (so I could mess with some supplements), his response was, "yeah, sure". This would be one step closer to figuring her out if we eliminated it he said, but it was more of a shrug of a shoulder smile

Jazzy is full of surprises!
Posted by: TimberWolf

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 08/06/13 09:56 PM

Wow Lisa, this medical mystery regarding Jazzy is heart wrenching because both of you are trying so hard and whatever this is continues to be elusive. I wish there were an organization that helps people fund tests in situations like this so that you will not become bankrupt trying to help your little girl. I just wish I could just click those red slippers together and have both of you be in a place of perfect health and well-being. You are both so very special. Bless you Lisa, for your love and devotion to your baby girl. May your reward be great in the days to come.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 08/06/13 10:32 PM

Gosh Elvi, you made me cry! Thank you, you are very sweet hugging
Posted by: bianca

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 08/07/13 03:51 AM

I wish I could say things as well as Elvi but please know I 100 agree with her wise words. Hmmmm I have a pair of red shoes, I shall try clicking them together later hugging
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 08/07/13 01:31 PM

Lol, click away bianca, I need all the help I can get!!

I'm feeling a bit better today. There are so many ramifications for an addison's dog, and then there is the quandry if she just has low cortisol, but I not addison's, which I think I very not understood. Lots of ifs ahead!

We are scheduled for 9am monday. It will be about a 3 hour test, so I better pack a midmorning snack to bring with me popcorndrink
Posted by: TimberWolf

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 08/07/13 04:18 PM

What specifically will they be doing as far as test? Bloodwork, x-rays? Will she have to be under anesthesia? I hope the test is not going to be too complicated and there will be definite results. Taking snacks is always a good idea if you ask me smile Hugs
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 08/07/13 04:29 PM

More importantly, take your laptop so you can give us continuous updates. smile

You are really turning into some kind of diagnostician. That will surely help Jazz get into the best possible physiological order and will add even more to help you provide the rest of us day after day.

MJ
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 08/07/13 05:03 PM

Snacks are always good!!!

MJ, about the laptop rofl

The only reason I was stuck on the addison's thing is that there are so many things here that remind me of max in terms of the anxiety, coping, triggers, inflammation, etc. I feel bad that I didn't know to purue that with max. In addition, jazz has dark skin and a few other issues. I don't want to put too much confidence in this, buit the IMS was a bit concerned at that low number. With her electrolytes okay on her blood tests, I don't think she is at risk for a crisis, so he said monday for the test would be okay.

They take a blood test of the resting cortisol (essentially the test she just had done), and then they give her a shot of something that is supposed to trigger an adrenal stress response. Then 2 hours later they take another blood sample to see if the cortisol spiked. An addison's dog won't be able to increase their cortisol to respond to stress, so the timulation cortisol level will be low in AD. The cortisol should be high if it's not.

Max stimmed high, but there is a logic question I have about this, if the body doesn't produce enough "stuff" to trigger stimulation under stress response, but I'm sure the IMS will have an explanation of that for me.

Luckily the test isn't invasive or too bad, but I don't think it's very comfortable - it wasn't for Max. From an old article: Way back when vet clinics used to pay $150 for a vial of the injection stuff. Then they had to pay $700 per vial, which really jacked up the cost frown I have no idea how much this is going to cost, but I remember paying a lot for Max's, and that was when the vet made a mistake and undercharged me. I will cross my fingers that the price has gone down!
Posted by: TimberWolf

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 08/07/13 07:24 PM

Oh my goodness, $700? That is crazy. Hopefully, it will be cheaper. I am glad the procedure will not be too invasive. No doubt her little teddy bear could be a comfort for her wub Hopefully, the time will pass quickly and she will be able to tolerate the procedure well.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 08/07/13 08:10 PM

Oh no, the whole vial won't be used, and it may have come down some.

I just looked, and I paid $275 for Max's on 7/2011. She forgot to add the stuff they injected (and then said she wasn't going to worry about ), which would have brought it to $405. This place is typically more expensive, so I'll be happy if it's not more than $350 (smaller dog, less injectible???).

I'm really getting impatient, I want to know!
Posted by: TimberWolf

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 08/07/13 08:24 PM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
I'm really getting impatient, I want to know!


Understandably so. This trying to figure out what is wrong has been a long journey. Time for it to end to where treatment can take place and you guys can live a more relaxing life.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 08/12/13 01:02 PM

Addison's test today, but won't know anything until, at the earliest, tomorrow evening. We have about 15 minutes to wait until the second blood draw, just came in from a walk to rest before the draw.

She is very calm. At this point, Max was panting like crazy (he stimmed very high, o responded strongly as not AD). I'm trying not to read anything into that. They did use the whole vial for her - odd they would use the same amount for both her and a dog Max's size. Also was able to get a stool sample (finally), which is needed for daycare.

Lol, I want to know, and I want to know now laugh
Posted by: TimberWolf

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 08/12/13 02:53 PM

Yes, of course you want to know. You have been waiting too long already. We want to know, too, so please keep us posted Lisa. Hang in there!! I am glad Jazzy is calm. I am sure that makes things a bit easier. Are the tests evaluated locally or do they have to send them out? Hopefully, by tomorrow evening you will have something concrete and start on a specific treatment plan for your sweet baby.
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 08/12/13 03:07 PM

Thanks for the update, Lisa. I hope the snack was enjoyed-I wasn't clear whether it was for you or Miss Jazz.

crossedfingers you get results and a plan that will let Jazz live to her full potential, which is HUGE.

MJ
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 08/12/13 04:03 PM

Thanks Elvi and MJ, now we just wait.

Since the wait was only an hour, we didn't get a nack, but did grab a bite on the way home, and also stopped by the Home Depot to pick up some things to make some cavaletti bars to practice on. Jazz had her usual panic attack in the car this morning, and trembling before and after breakfast, but I am pretty amazed at how calm she has been throughout the rest of the day. Either she's growing up, or something I wrong, and I don't know which crazy I guess maybe the test result will shed some light.

$400 for the Addison's test frown They used a whole vial on her, and another $60 for an annual fecal for daycare. Being a specialty clinic, they probably are about the most expensive in town, but we do what we have to do! If she has AD, it'll be some of the best money I've spent though.

Tomorrow will be a LoNg day waiting for that phone call!
Posted by: TimberWolf

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 08/12/13 04:16 PM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
and another $60 for an annual fecal for daycare. Being a specialty clinic, they probably are about the most expensive in town, but we do what we have to do! If she has AD, it'll be some of the best money I've spent though.


Yes, to get to the bottom of this is so worth it. Still..... a LOT of money. Ghesh. Please take a breath....tomorrow will come in no time. Hugs.
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 08/12/13 08:43 PM

crossedfingers Hoping answers are near.

Hang in there!
Posted by: SeanRescueMom

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 08/12/13 08:57 PM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
Addison's test today, but won't know anything until, at the earliest, tomorrow evening.


Hope you get the results tomorrow evening and don't have to wait any longer. goodluck
Posted by: bianca

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 08/13/13 02:50 AM

Keeping all paws and fingers crossed here for results that mean a definite course of action for your sweet girl hugging
Posted by: TimberWolf

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 08/13/13 03:30 PM

Anything yet? impatient
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 08/13/13 04:51 PM

crossedfingers Any word?
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 08/13/13 05:27 PM

Ugh, nothing. He usually calls at the end of his day, between 6 and 8 PST crazy

Runny errands today, stopping by my folks' soon. Wish I would hear sooner rather than later. She's so awfully lethargic. I pm'ed unloader and his remy had the same ymptom, and was atypical addison's. Just waiting...
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 08/13/13 05:59 PM

You have company waiting.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 08/13/13 09:58 PM

I appreciate the company - still waiting!! Sure hope I don't have to wait until tomorrow...
Posted by: TimberWolf

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 08/13/13 10:00 PM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
I appreciate the company - still waiting!! Sure hope I don't have to wait until tomorrow...


Wow, I am sorry for the long wait frown
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 08/13/13 10:58 PM

impatient You must be on pins and needles ... I hope you hear something tonight!!!
Posted by: TimberWolf

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 08/13/13 11:02 PM

I am thinking CA is 2 hours behind KS, so it would be 8 pm there now. Looks like maybe/hopefully tomorrow?
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 08/14/13 12:42 AM

Hopefully tomorrow, I'm really bummed. Don't know if he didn't get a chance to call, or the result isn't in - he thought we would get it by tonight, but wasn't definitive.

I have had a few days where I was thinking of going up the hill (tomorrow Wed being one of them), but she' been pretty weak, more tired than me even, so I wanted to wait until thi was ruled out or in.

Drat.
Posted by: bianca

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 08/14/13 03:52 AM

frown So sorry for the delay frown hugging
Posted by: TimberWolf

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 08/14/13 09:00 AM

Shoot! Hopefully today then and earlier than this evening. Hang in there!!
Posted by: SeanRescueMom

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 08/14/13 10:16 AM

Originally Posted By: bianca
frown So sorry for the delay frown hugging


Me too, but as they say, "no news is good news." crossedfingers
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 08/14/13 12:24 PM

It's 9:30 in the Golden State. Aren't the veterinary laboratories reporting by now?
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 08/14/13 01:03 PM

Ugh, they do rounds in the morning, with vet interns(?), so I haven't even called. Being a referral center, I guess that makes sense. Not sure when I should call... pacing
Posted by: TimberWolf

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 08/14/13 01:04 PM

Now? ...ooops sorry....didn't mean to be pushy LOL
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 08/14/13 01:22 PM

spitcoffee I suspect later this afternoon - he probably will call when he knows he has a bit of time to talk, like, what, he expects a million and one questions from me? He's very good about my millions of questions...
Posted by: TimberWolf

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 08/14/13 01:24 PM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
spitcoffee I suspect later this afternoon - he problem will call when he knows he has a bit of time to talk, like, what, he expects a million and one questions from me? He's very good about my millions of questions...


rofl Hey, you are a MOM. That's what momma bears do. poke
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 08/14/13 04:08 PM

Well, sh*t, nothing is ever clear...

NOT classical Addison's. However, she didn't stim high enough to be "normal".

Normally they want to see the cortisol stimulation greater than 8. She stimmed at 7.2 (I think Max's was around 16). This time, her resting cortisol was much better at 1.9 (greater than 2 essentially rules out addison's).

He said the low stim could be three things:

1) This is her normal,

2) She has relative adrenal insufficiency, where she can't produce enough cortisol when she is sick or stressed (n hindsight, I think Indy had this to some degree, which is also found in mdr1 dogs), or

3) We are catching this early, on the way to full-fledged adrenal insuffiency, and he thinks we should retest in 4-6 months. (Bank account says ouch.)

We both believe that this is either #2 or #3. He did say that if she got really sick or went under anesthesia, he would administer steroids to help her through it. He also said that this does not argue for any type of steroid therapy now.

The intestinal problems are still the driver in this, and we'll continue with this plan of using the pectin for anti-inflammatory, and will have to get a urine sample via cysto and check protein/creatinine ratio if this current regimen doen't resolve the urinary protein issue (he still believes it's from the gut, but does not know for sure).

So, nothing changed really, though I guess I've learned more about my girl...
Posted by: TimberWolf

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 08/14/13 04:27 PM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
Well, sh*t, nothing is ever clear...


I am baffled. This is so very weird thinking . Was so hoping for something concrete. I am sorry Lisa. It's frustrating. So weird.
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 08/14/13 04:48 PM

OK, if the intestinal problems are likely to be the driver for this complication and you're paying intense attention to diet supplements and removing other treatments, you're on top of this, too. Right???

This is just too much worry-but that's what happens when you love somebody.

(let's do a coast to coast bake sale for Jazz' labs)

MJ
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 08/14/13 04:56 PM

Thanks Elvi, the universe sends me these dogs, but I really thought this time I'd get a healthier one...hernias, extra vaginal tissue, adrenal malfunction...

MJ, I'm trying to get on top of this, but all the "usual" things aren't really working. Guess there is something I'm supposed to learn here.
Posted by: SeanRescueMom

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 08/14/13 09:12 PM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
the universe sends me these dogs, but I really thought this time I'd get a healthier one...hernias, extra vaginal tissue, adrenal malfunction...


A neighbor once told us we must have a sign hanging over our door - I told her if that's true I'd gladly send it to her address. grin

Hang in there, Lisa, you're doing a great job and you're a great dog mommy too. hugging
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 08/14/13 09:37 PM

Hang in there, Lisa. hugging
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 08/14/13 11:44 PM

Thanks a bunch. We will keep plugging away here....
Posted by: bianca

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 08/15/13 05:03 AM

hugging hugging I can't help with the bake sale (nobody would pay for my cooking) but I can enlist my mum!

So sorry Lisa, I know you had your heart set on some concrete answers hugging
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 08/15/13 08:49 AM

Hang in there, Lisa. hugging

I was so hoping this would give definitive answers to what is going on. frown
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 08/15/13 06:34 PM

Bianca, no one would pay for my cooking either smile

Thank you bianca and Bonnie, knowing what we are fighting would be so nice.

I am starting to rethink the autoimmune issue. Almost wondering about immune deficiency, like an IgA deficiency.
Posted by: bianca

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 08/16/13 03:40 AM

I know I've said it before but Jazzy really is the luckiest girl to have you fighting in her corner hugging
Posted by: TimberWolf

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 08/16/13 07:33 AM

So you think she may have inherited IGA deficiency? Looks like that would be a genetic issue or drug induced? I guess in that case it would be good to know what her parents were like frown
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 08/16/13 11:18 AM

Awww, shucks bianca! I do have to say, there are some households where I know she wouldn't stand a chance.

LMS, maybe, I'm just not sure, but I think that would be an inhereited thing. If she was born a stray, maybe it's a nutritional thing. She just may be a byb/puppy mill dog that had everything against her.

I did discover that the lean pork was causing digetive issues. I swore I would never feed it again when it suddenly was bad for indy, and other dogs across the country too, but I had to try.

She's pretty tired this morning - spent lots of time up on the balance baall/peanut yesterday in class. She loves that thing smile
Posted by: TimberWolf

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 08/16/13 11:43 AM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
t lots of time up on the balance baall/peanut yesterday in class. She loves that thing smile


Hoping that eventually the good things like this will outweight the challenges. We are standing with you Lisa. Hang in there you two hugging
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 08/17/13 11:29 AM

Thanks smile
Posted by: bianca

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 08/18/13 03:28 AM

hugging
Posted by: SeanRescueMom

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 08/18/13 08:51 PM

Checking in and just want you to know I'm thinking of you. hug
Posted by: TimberWolf

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 08/25/13 02:22 PM

It's been a few days...how is Ms. Jazzy doing? How are you doing Lisa?
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 08/25/13 03:19 PM

Thank you guys. She was doing better, but she's pretty bad again. I'm wondering if it's daycare (last monday and friday), she gets green beans there. Looks like I am going to have to put her on the no food list there and see. Poor thing, I hate the feeling that she has to watch all the other dogs eat and doesn't get any!

This is so frustrating frown

She's chewing at her knee today - that's all I need!
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 08/25/13 04:02 PM

I should add that the IMS doesn't think that this is food driven because of her symptoms, etc. If it were food-driven, he would think that there would be more stomach and even small intestine symptoms, and this is mostly lower colon.
Posted by: TimberWolf

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 08/25/13 06:29 PM

Can't they just feed her with food you bring? That way she won't have to watch the others eat and not have anything for herself. Are the beans a snake? Poor Jazzy.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 08/25/13 09:30 PM

No, they don't do that with the daycare people. Luckily there are only two long days this coming term for her which will be 9 hour days. I wouldn't worry, but when she skips breakfast, that's a long time by the time we get home and I get food ready. OH well, we'll deal with it - I'm hoping that the raw goat's milk works well for her so I can encorporate that somehow.
Posted by: TimberWolf

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 08/25/13 10:03 PM

Ghesh, I spelled snack "snake".. What was I thinking?

That is too bad they don't allow an owner to bring their own food. Definitely a long time for her to wait until the next meal. Ghesh.
Posted by: bianca

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 08/26/13 05:08 AM

hugging
Posted by: TimberWolf

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 09/01/13 10:30 AM

Any Jazzy updates?
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 09/01/13 02:23 PM

No, same old stuff and management. I continue to try new things, they continue not to make a bit difference.

We do have an acupuncture appointment next week with my long term vet who I only in a couple times a month, just to add some support and see if it can help with either the anxiety or the digestion. Next week back to work full and over time...
Posted by: TimberWolf

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 09/01/13 03:08 PM

Shoot!! I think by process of elimination, if you keep on plucking away....you have got to hit the source/fix for this eventually. Hopefully, you are at least close to that. Huge hugs to you and a gentle kiss to Ms. Jazzy from Auntie Elvi. Please tell Jazzy that we think she is very special ..just like her mommy.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 09/03/13 02:00 PM

Thank you Elvi laugh , much appreciated!!

Waiting for our vet/acupuncture appointment. This is the vet clinic that did her hernia surgeries and we do blood draws here when I want to send stuff out myself.

Lol, she lifted her leg and marked the wall in the reception area????? Completely caught me off guard shocked
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 09/03/13 02:17 PM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
.....
she lifted her leg and marked the wall ....


OUR Miss Jazmine????? Good heavens this dog has a huge personality.

I hope acupuncture works for her.

MJ
Posted by: TimberWolf

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 09/03/13 02:42 PM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
Lol, she lifted her leg and marked the wall in the reception area????? Completely caught me off guard shocked


rofl
Posted by: MSD

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 09/03/13 03:52 PM

Hey there MaxaLisa and Jazz— It’s not true, not sweet little Jazz, nope, no way, no how, she’s too cute and adorable. The truth is the guy before her had a “problem” and she didn’t want him to be embarrassed so she covered the area so he wouldn’t take the blame. Yup, that’s the truth, nothing but!! smile Isn't she such a good girl!!!!
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 09/03/13 05:48 PM

LOL, she is something else. I'm still laughing about the marking...maybe you're right MSD, she was doing the other dog a favor!

She is also the only dog that the vet knows that she keeps trying to jump "up" onto the exam table, because she wants to be eye to eye to watch and hear what's going on. And the mountain goat half of her always tells her to go ahead and try to make that jump rofl Yep, huge personality wub

She did really well with the acupuncture.

She seems to have a blockage in her energy right at at the thoracic-lumbar junction, noted by just about everyone that does energy stuff, and she was pretty reactive to the needles. She even let out a little yelp when the needle was being spun about half way through the session.

I had this feeling about her low back, an area called Bi Wei (sp?), but the vet couldn't get a response when she felt around, so figured I was wrong. But she was VERY reactive to the needles, and half way through the session even had the shivers in the back half of her body. That was Max's "spot", he was always very reactive there, so I guess I just learned to look for it. Next time the vet is going to try some large intestine points to better help with digestion, today was just a bit of "getting to know jazz" session....

The vet will be out of town, so we won't go back until next month. Right now she is very relaxed, and hopefully tomorrow morning won't be as traumatic crossedfingers



Posted by: bianca

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 09/04/13 04:14 AM

rofl at the sesame girl marking!!!! She needs to teach Coop how to do that please rofl

Lisa, Miss Jazzy is surely on the right track now hugging
Posted by: TimberWolf

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 09/04/13 07:48 AM

Wishing you and Jazzy a great day. I am glad she is relaxed this morning. Hugs
Posted by: Shepherds

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 09/05/13 05:15 AM

Hi Lisa, just checking in and reading up on how Miss Jazz is doing and hopefully she is still nice and relaxed from her acupuncture session.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 09/08/13 07:02 PM

Her acupuncture was great for her. Unfortunately, since school started last week (and started with a few 11 hour daycare days for her), she has been refusing most of her meals.

Thankfully, she was a touch overweight (her thyroid is a bit low), so now she still looks great, and weighs in at a whopping 20 pounds, which shocked me.

I tried zantac in case the marshmallow wasn't working and it was an acid issue, but no go. Guess we'll see what the week brings - I will most likely try to get her in to the IMS and proceed with *something*, though I don't know what that something will be. I have a can of trippett here, and I will try mixing that in tomorrow morning. I've even tried canned food like CA natural. I do have some Duck and oatmeal here, but I'm hesitant to open it and waste it. I'm tempted to address the low cortisol issue, but I need to think carefully about that... I hope that the IMS has some ideas. Digestion overall is stable, not bad, not great.
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 09/08/13 08:39 PM

Might be a good time to try that goat's milk. A little powdered straight from the package to stimulate her appetite, or thaw some of the frozen for her. Pour a little on the food.

I am wondering if she gets nauseous when she is nervous and that is why she doesn't want to eat? Maybe she needs something to settler her stomach first?
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 09/09/13 01:56 AM

I do think that stress is playing a role in not eating. I'm not sure if it's nausea or something related, though I do know that once she is turned off by a smell in her food, it's worse than pulling teeth to get her to eat it again frown

Great minds on the goat milk!! She LOVES it. Because it's a fermented food, I am giving it to her in the evening, with her probiotics. I don't want to give it close to when I'm giving the antibiotics, which limits its use. I've only been giving it for about 4 days (it's the liquid frozen stuff that's been thawed). I only bought a pint, so I need to pick up some more. A couple hours after giving it, before bedtime, I'm trying to make sure I time it so I can give some marshmallow for the tummy inflammation. It was hard to time everything right last week, I hope I get better.

You know, for a dog that hasn't eaten much at all, she seems to still have quite a bit of poop It seems very strange to me. Maybe she was very impacted and that made her feel a bit ill. Parts of her tummy were very hard, she does have motility problems.

I guess we'll see what this week brings.
Posted by: bianca

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 09/09/13 03:53 AM

Keeping everything crossed that sweet Jazzy has a much better week hugging hugging
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 09/09/13 06:50 AM

Yay on the goat's milk.

Buddy is on massive antibiotics right now for a couple of weeks. I have been giving both dogs raw goat milk this week. At the end of the course, I will do it again. Wish I could afford to give it daily, but I cannot.

A quart here is $8.99!

Jazz should be named Puzzle, since you have to try to put so many things together to see what makes her whole. smile

I hope she is better soon and forever!
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 09/09/13 08:07 AM

Puzzle-that's adorable.

Once you and the IMS figure Jazz out, she should really be a case study someplace, in problem solving if nothing else.

Is there a version of satin balls that she would tolerate-just to get some nourishment in? I guess not.

I hope it's a great week for everybody,
MJ
Posted by: bianca

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 09/10/13 03:32 AM

Puzzle is good hugging
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 09/10/13 05:48 PM

Puzzle would be appropriate crazy

Before bed, I give her some probiotics with a bit of raw goat milk. The quart here, with tax, is about $11.50, so it's good that I have a small dog. I pay a little more if I buy by the pint, but I don't want it to go bad - have no idea how long it can be open for. I did pick up some of the powder too yesterday, in case it comes in handy.

I have been trying some canned trippett the last couple of days, and it's amazing the difference that has made. She comes running in to eat, and I haven't seen that in ages (she runs to the goat milk too). In the mornings, I'm using the Wellness Simple lamb and oat canned with the trippett mixed in, and homecooked mixed with the trippett in the evening. When is too much tripe too much?????

The key is giving these things away from the antibiotics. I am changing my abx schedule too, giving it a bit before the meal, with an enzyme that has bromelain, which makes the abx penetrate better, and maybe the meal will sit better away from the abx.

For the last two days, she has had a bowel movement in the morning and in the evening, which is huge. Usually I'm happy if she goes once a day. Getting her, uh, "regular" may make a huge impact on her quality of life.

I have an appt with the IMS on Thursday, but might postpone it if she continues to improve.

Holding my breath a bit, usually by the fourth day thigns go to heck, so will wait this out for a bit....
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 09/10/13 05:54 PM

Bonnie, I have been thinking about Buddy, hope he responds well to the abx. Do let us know!
Posted by: TimberWolf

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 09/10/13 08:30 PM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
For the last two days, she has had a bowel movement in the morning and in the evening, which is huge. Usually I'm happy if she goes once a day.

Wow, so this is good. Looks like you are on the right track. Hopefully, a beginning to regularity smile
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 09/10/13 09:47 PM

Gosh I sure hope so crossedfingers
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 09/11/13 01:18 AM

Glad to hear that she's super interested in food. That much be so nice to see! I don't think there is such a thing as too much tripe. There are people who feed their dogs nothing but tripe!
Posted by: bianca

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 09/11/13 02:46 AM

Yah this is wonderful to read, may it be the start of her health no longer being such a huge worry!
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 09/11/13 01:15 PM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
..... When is too much tripe too much?????

...


Gosh Lisa, you reminded me of the tiny restaurant I used to go to when I lived in Switzerland-on Tuesdays in the fall they had a tripe 'festival' all you can eat prepared in a few different ways. I was younger....

So crossedfingers for the fourth day, and the fifth day, and ever after

MJ
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 09/12/13 09:09 PM

MJ, so you have eaten tripe (not even going talk about the jealousy of living over there for awhile smile )

We had a follow-up with the IMS today. Her urinalysis (free catch from home) always shows protein and a few things. They took some urine from the bladder and ran the urinalysis and also a urine protein/creatinine ratio to check the kidneys. ALL NORMAl groovy This is a HUGE relief, and alo points to all of these issues being in her gut, and the ongoing inflammation hasn't damaged her kidneys.

We will continue my current feeding experiement, will also try some pumpkin since I havven't tried that (and the IMS is a big fan of pumpkin too). If the diet and my current experiment doesn't do the trick long term, then we will have to turn to pred to make her feel better.

If it looks like we are going to use pred, I'll alo have to have regular bloodwork and thyroid done before, since the pred tends to change everything. We are both thinking that that is where we will end up, but both hoping that we are wrong.
Posted by: bianca

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 09/13/13 03:23 AM

Normal is great! I hope your sweet beautiful girl handles the pumpkin and that helps hugging
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 09/13/13 07:04 AM

Lisa, I just learned that papaya does a great job of soothing the gut.

I know you don't want to make a lot of changes, but maybe a good capsule form papaya?


http://naturesway4pets.com/main/?p=1213
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 09/13/13 04:13 PM

Normal, we like normal! Somehow, not really sure why, I worry more about kidney and bladder in small dogs-so this is great.

I will say that I'm not so sure about tripe and pumpkin at once, maybe in different courses.

crossedfingers you don't have to go to prednisone crossedfingers.

MJ
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, starting fresh - 09/13/13 11:39 PM

Lol, tripe and pumpkin at the same time does *not* sound good, even for a dog that loves tripe rofl

MJ, I think the small dog bladder thing might be all the reports of bladder cancer in the little buggers, I think from being so low to the ground, close to all the pesticides, fertilizers, etc. I try not to let jazz pee on the really green lawns, for her safety...

Bonnie, I think the biggest strength in papaya is its enzyme activity, but I hadn't thought about it for fiber, which may be helpful. There is some in her digestive enzyme, but I think I will put it on her list of this to try.

I picked up some pumpkin and some psyllium to try. She has a chiro appt tuesday, but I will alo have them run a blood panel in case things go south. There was ome shivering this morning, bit this afternoon she was feeling great.

Wondering about tripe - would antibiotics interfere with any of the nutrient value of tripe? http://www.aplaceforpaws.com/faqs/products/what-is-tripe-and-why-should-i-feed-it-to-my-dog.html
I am using canned tripe (Tripett), beef or lamb: http://wholesomepet.com/article_8-16-07_tripett_info.php
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, worried - 09/20/13 10:56 AM

Worried about Jazz's new blood results, sounds scary. In her blood, there are a lot more lymphocytes compared to the neutrophils than there should be. This is what the pathologist wrote:

The blood smear is reviewed as requested by the reviewing technologist to check lymphocyte morphology. The patient is a 2 year old spayed femaled Beagle cross. Lymphocytes are generally mixed and primarily mature with rare reactive lymphocytes noted on scanning, generally of small to medium size. There are a couple of intermediate-sized mononuclear cells that are poorly preserved and distorted in shape with a bit more basophilia. They are considered somewhat suspicious, yet, in such low numbers, it is not possible to distinguish them from reactive lymphocytes. Reactive lymphocytes can occur in symptomatic and asymptomatic patiens for a variety of causes, generally in association with immunostimulation (recent vaccination, exposure to infectious agents, dermatitis, a septic process somewhere, liver diseasea, or inflammation or ischemia involving viscera). The clinical features should help to determin indications for any further testing. Follow-up CBC might be a good idea to track whether there is persistence or increase of atypical or unclassed cells.

Full records are here for blood test geeks....probably have to be signed into google.... Jazz's spreadsheet

I have a call into the IMS. I know that Lymphoma has not been taken off the table, so I hope that the IMS has a better explanation. I worried about the structure of her intestines, as well as just not having the right abx.

(not a beagle cross, but beagle, dachshund, close I guess wink )
Posted by: TimberWolf

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, worried - 09/20/13 11:06 AM

Oh, my gosh Lisa, I am so sorry. That is worrisome for sure. What is going on? I don't know what to say. I am so sad to hear. Hugs
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, worried - 09/20/13 12:16 PM

Thank you Elvi. I guess we wait to hear from the IMS frown
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, worried - 09/20/13 12:29 PM

I wish you had better news Lisa.

Mary Jane
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, worried - 09/20/13 12:51 PM

Me too teary
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, worried - 09/20/13 12:56 PM

Reading a paper now. From that paper, most likely is an ehrlichia, addison's, or lymphoma. I have talked with the IMS about all three. I am hoping for addison's at this point, but I'm ure the IMS will have a much expanded view on this. An ehrlichia is pronbably least likely, though the falling amylase is also what Max had. It resoved after years once pred was started.
Posted by: TimberWolf

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, worried - 09/20/13 01:55 PM

Lisa, please keep us posted. Do you know when you will be able to see the IMS?
Posted by: JakodaCD OA

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, worried - 09/20/13 06:32 PM

sending healing thoughts to both of you:((
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, worried - 09/20/13 07:26 PM

teary hugging

I hope this is not as scary as it sounds.
Posted by: TimberWolf

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, worried - 09/20/13 08:37 PM

You know Lisa, I remember when you and Jazzy came together and I recall your saying that there was something about her that drew you to her. Even though this is so difficult for both of you and exhausting, there is a reason why you two have met. You are a safe place for her. If you had not come into her life, she would not have received the level of love and care she is getting from you right now.

Nobody knows why things have to be so difficult at times and it is definitely not fair what is going on here but as I have said before, I am glad she ended up with you because despite the sadness, despite the grief, despite the financial strain, despite the sleepless nights...you are able to see her beauty, her personality and extend your love toward her unconditionally. That is something only a few are able to do. Hugs.
Posted by: SeanRescueMom

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, worried - 09/20/13 09:26 PM

Sending special thoughts with lots and lots of hugs your way. hugging
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, worried - 09/20/13 11:07 PM

Thank you so much guys for your supportive words. I really hope it isn't as bad as it sounds too....

I haven't heard from the IMS. I don't know if he was in today, or maybe he needed some time to think about the situation. So I guess I have to wait until Monday....
Posted by: bianca

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, worried - 09/21/13 04:43 AM

Oh crap Lisa hugging hugging hugging
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, worried - 09/21/13 11:21 AM

Bianca hugging , yes, similar words when I saw the test, though the exact ones would be censored by the board software.
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, worried - 09/22/13 04:36 PM

Lisa,

I'm so sorry that I missed this but even sorrier to be reading these results. Sending all good thoughts to you and to Jazz. Lymphoma seems unlikely to me because it is progresses very quickly but I just skimmed everything...are these tests a repeat of previous tests or new tests altogether? I apologize again for not keeping up...the new job is demanding all of my time.

hugging
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, worried - 09/22/13 07:33 PM

Thank you Ruth, I understand the work thing completely!

The bloodwork is progressive, which is what is concerning to us. I"m using the absolute basophils as a baseline, though I don't really know what they mean, and the IMS can't say much about why they are there at this point. Though still in the normal range, of all the zillions of blood tests that Max and Indy had, never did even 1 of these show up......

I find the decreasing amylase also key, though, again, it doesn't have a meaning.

The lymphocytes increased and neutrophils decreased in Feb, was there in May, and still there now. I have to thank the tech reviewing the bloodwork for having the pathologist look at - the previous two did not do that, and probably should have.

I hope that the IMS has a good gut instinct on this.....
Posted by: bianca

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, worried - 09/23/13 03:36 AM

Lisa when do you hear from the IMS? hugging
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, worried - 09/23/13 08:25 AM

I'm hoping to hear from him this evening.
Posted by: bianca

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, worried - 09/24/13 03:46 AM

Is it evening yet? hugging
Posted by: TimberWolf

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, worried - 09/24/13 10:13 AM

Any news?
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, worried - 09/24/13 03:06 PM

Thanks for checking on us, I talked to the IMS late in the evening yesterday.

I guess the bloodwork shows no additional concerns to the IMS, this is consistent with her current disase process as he understands it, but it was a reality check for me.

Of course, with the bloodwork not getting better, and her discomfort at morning feedings, I'm generally having a bit of an emotional crisis about, at what point, is there too much suffering and she should try pred.

While she has some version of IBD, he doesn't seem willing to say that this is oley IBD, that the inflammation is restricted to this area.

I'm fortunate that the IMS is very balanced about this, and in no hurry, unless there is any type of external decline that we can see. While most dogs will respond to pred, some don't, and some are more sensitive to the side effects, and I think he is still hoping that we will find a dietary solution. We also would really like to wait until the end of the semester and retest her for addison's before having to mess with the pred. Most dogs he is able to get off of pred once started and only use it for flairs, but that's not true for all of them, and he can't predict the sensitivity they will have for side effects from it. I appreciate his hesitations.

So, I guess the good news is that I worried you all for nothing, sorry about that! I just wish this where all easier for her.
Posted by: TimberWolf

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, worried - 09/24/13 05:03 PM

I know it's frustrating when there are signs of something going on but not strong enough for a definite diagnosis because then there is always that big question about how to help Jazzy. I am sorry that the IMS didn't have the answers but like you am glad they don't want to push forward until they have some sort of definite. Poor Jazzy. This sucks really. hugging
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, worried - 09/24/13 05:54 PM

Thanks Elvi. I guess a holding pattern is better than a worse pattern!
Posted by: TimberWolf

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, worried - 09/24/13 06:15 PM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
Thanks Elvi. I guess a holding pattern is better than a worse pattern!


Yes, unfortunately in this case it seems it is. hugging
Posted by: MSD

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, worried - 09/24/13 06:37 PM

I don’t understand the half of what is going on to make Jazz not well, but I’m sorry you’re still having problems getting breakfast into Jazz easily, I really understand this first hand. Things you could try, if you haven’t already to get Jazz to eat her breakfast.

• Change where you feed her, ie: from kitchen to living room on the sofa or on your bed
• Hand feed, which I think you already do
• Feed right when you get up OR
• Feed directly after her 1st morning potty
• Feed a snack right when she wakes up, anything that she absolutely loves (this could change frequently)
• Play a game in the yard or the house of tug until mom is exhausted, then feed
• Sing a song and make a game out of it
• Sit next to her while she eats, start with a good pat on the head or where she likes it
• Give her a belly rub, then feed
• If you’re making homemade food, you could try warming it first

I know you probably have your own list of what to try… frown
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, worried - 09/24/13 08:07 PM

Thanks MSD, that's a very good list! I'm already doing 5 of those things on a regular basis. And a sixth, the game thing doesn't work for her, but how I act is very important - I can't bring stress to the meal, and I have to not be anxious for her to eat.

One problem is we have to be up at about 5am and when I snooze too long, the stress she picks up from me being a bit late really messes her up. I'm not really a morning person - it's going to be a tough year.

It really does help to feed her something little before breakfast in a normal day when we aren't up and out like this. I will try to think about what I can do about the snack thing....
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, worried - 09/24/13 08:43 PM

5AM, that is tough.

I also would hate to go to prednisone before there is no alternative. I think you and her doctors will find anything wise that is there. Berries?

I just wish it were easier for you both.

MJ
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, worried - 09/24/13 09:05 PM

5AM is *not* my thing, I am too much of a night owl, for decades.....and it will be all year. Blech.

Berries, yes. I had stopped the blueberries when she stopped eating, but I will try them again. I don't know if I was imagining things, but I thought that they were helping.

Thank you MJ, seems nothing is easy with me and dogs. Maybe there's a message there.

I updated the homeopathic vet over the weekend and hadn't heard back. Um, it helps to use the right email address. Resent it today. I'm not sure I can afford her, but need I think this is one treatment that I haven't committed to that needs to be tried, either through her, or on my own (with a little bit of help maybe from annie). Will see what she replies with. Next week we have a folllow-up acupuncture.
Posted by: bianca

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, worried - 09/25/13 05:04 AM

hugging Oh Lisa, I so wish there were some answers, let alone easy ones frown
Posted by: MSD

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, worried - 09/25/13 08:43 AM

Agree, you have to be so calm and patient. When you hand feed her does she spit it out? Just keep at it, one piece at a time, laugh in between, pet her and give it right back for her to eat… this takes time, but hopefully once she gets going she will want to continue.

You can always keep a bag of treats next to the bed, so you can just pop them into her when she wakes up. Trader Joe’s has freeze dried beef liver treats you could try for that.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, worried - 09/26/13 01:28 PM

She doesn't buy the happy thing, but we have a system down where she knows I respect how she is feeling.

She has different spots where she goes and kinda hides waiting for food. Yesterday oddly, he ran up to the bedroom - I think she was thinking what I was, it was too early!! She even took over my pillow wub


Posted by: bianca

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, worried - 09/27/13 04:02 AM

wub wub Mum I'm way to tired to do this eating business! wub
Posted by: m&j

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, worried - 10/03/13 07:41 PM

Just getting caught up. Yeesh. What a scare.

Ya know, Rudy wouldn't eat.....until I started feeding it to him frozen. Yuck, but he wolfs it down. Worth a shot.

Many good thoughts going your way. Jazz is so cute!!
Posted by: TimberWolf

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, worried - 10/13/13 11:24 PM

Lisa, how are you and Jazzy doing? So sorry I haven't checked in but that doesn't mean I am not thinking of you two. I hope her digestion continues improving even if only one tiny step at the time.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, worried - 10/14/13 02:52 AM

Thank you ladies smile

Things are stable here. She's still on her drugs, and we have our ups and downs. I'm in the middle of another experiment. She's not worse is about all I know shocked

I wish I had some better news to report, but maybe some day......
Posted by: TimberWolf

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, worried - 10/14/13 07:43 AM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
Thank you ladies smile

Things are stable here. She's still on her drugs, and we have our ups and downs. I'm in the middle of another experiment. She's not worse is about all I know shocked

I wish I had some better news to report, but maybe some day......


Well, "not worse" and "stable" are good. So, hopefully, the new experiment will work in the long run and push her over that threshold to perfect health. Hugs
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, worried - 10/14/13 10:34 AM

Thanks elvi!

I'll be happy with less than perfect! Poor thing needs a break, but overall she's pretty happy, so that's good. She's doing well at training, though we had to quit the yoga/conditioning class because they changed the day on us frown

I am hoping to rerun the CBC in 10-14 days if all goes well, kinda going out on a limb here.
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, worried - 10/14/13 10:50 AM

I'm sure everybody is glad to hear that Jazz is pretty happy. That skin reaction is kind of awful but it is limited in time, I guess.

This is not much comfort, but you are so in touch with her, you are such a keen observer, that you can interpret day-to-day behavior and responses as you fine-tune diet, drugs, etc.

Anyway, lots of luck on your experiment!

MJ
Posted by: TimberWolf

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, worried - 10/14/13 12:50 PM

Do you feel at liberty to share what experiment you are doing? Well, she is happy because you create an environment around her that is happy and safe hugging That has got to pay off somewhere.
Posted by: SeanRescueMom

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, worried - 10/14/13 08:44 PM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
I'll be happy with less than perfect! Poor thing needs a break, but overall she's pretty happy, so that's good.


Pretty happy sounds good to me. With everything she's been through my fingers are crossed for Jazz. crossedfingers
Posted by: bianca

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, worried - 10/15/13 02:46 AM

Here's hoping that very, very soon, Jazzy can get on with being just a beautiful healthy girl hugging
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, thyroid - 11/02/13 02:58 AM

Annual thyroid results are in, here's a screenshot.



Again they say probably non-thyroid illness. These are a bit worse than last year. Will wait for her retest in january for Addison's before I do anything, but if the Addison's test is "normal", I will push for trial thyroid replacement.

Things are holding their own here, for now. Other than the kelp needed to balance her homecooked diet, she has been off of all thyroid and all adrenal support for some time, to hopefully insure we get an accurate test in january.

Wonder if the thyroid explain her increased reactivity towards people. Been wondering what that was about, whether it is an age thing (just turned 2), or not.
Posted by: bianca

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, thyroid - 11/02/13 04:30 AM

Wow she has just turned 2?????? How did this happen laugh Sorry Lisa this is all above my understanding but it sounds good that she is holding her own hugging
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, thyroid - 11/02/13 08:47 AM

That massive hormone network is way too complicated for me, but I have read that trying thyroid replacement is a reasonable way to actually treat a complex deficiency without necessarily knowing every element.

Yeah-how did Jazmine reach 2? I forgot her present and missed the party. frown

MJ
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, thyroid - 11/02/13 09:02 PM

Thanks!

I'm not sure how her birthday snuck up on us. I have a stupid crazy schedule this term, poor thing didn't even get a party shocked
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, thyroid - 11/03/13 12:28 PM

Happy late birthday to your very special jazz! Rafi doesn't even know what a birthday party is so don't feel bad! wink
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, thyroid - 11/03/13 01:10 PM

Just wanted to add that any day they get to spend quality time with us is a party to them. And, speaking of which, Rafi is bugging me to spend some quality time with him. Give that Jazzy-girl a big hug from Rafi and I! grin
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, thyroid - 11/03/13 01:12 PM

Thanks Ruth! I think you're right about those days too smile

Have a great walk, and I'll do the same here in a few minutes.
Posted by: Shepherds

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, thyroid - 11/05/13 03:39 AM

Good to read that Jazz is holding her own....and belated happy birthday Miss Jazz.
Posted by: MSD

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, thyroid - 11/05/13 08:09 AM

Happy belated Birthday sweet Jazz!!!!
Hope you had a terrific day with your Mom!!!!!
Best wishes for a healthy year ahead,
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, thyroid - 11/05/13 02:31 PM

Jazz says "WOOF!", which in dog language, means thanks!

I can't believe she's already two!
Posted by: TimberWolf

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, thyroid - 11/05/13 03:36 PM

party vaseroses congrats to your being 2 years old paw playinleaves All these for you sweet Jazzy! You are such a sweet girl and I am really glad you are doing better. hugging
Posted by: bianca

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, thyroid - 11/06/13 04:09 AM

Jazzy happy Belated Birthday from your Aussie friends paw paw and from me a gentle smooch xx
Posted by: Good_Karma

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, thyroid - 11/06/13 11:08 AM

Happy belated birthday Jazzy!!!
Posted by: SeanRescueMom

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, thyroid - 11/09/13 09:57 AM

Originally Posted By: Good_Karma
Happy belated birthday Jazzy!!!


Ditto, and many, many more! groovy
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, thyroid - 11/09/13 04:41 PM

WOOF! I am a big girl now, and they expect more things from me at training, I try to do my best, but sometimes I just have to ignore everyone and chase a squirrel or roll in the grass fetch

Thank you for happy day greetings! I am a happy girl smile

--Jazzy
Posted by: TimberWolf

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, thyroid - 11/09/13 04:59 PM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
WOOF! I am a big girl now, and they expect more things from me at training, I try to do my best, but sometimes I just have to ignore everyone and chase a squirrel or roll in the grass fetch

Thank you for happy day greetings! I am a happy girl smile

--Jazzy


wub wub wub
Posted by: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, thyroid - 11/09/13 05:06 PM

Jazzy and Lisa, just catching up with you guys. Jazzy, just be happy and your own cute self.

Lisa, happy is good. As long as she is happy and even partially healthy then life is good in her book.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, thyroid - 11/10/13 01:22 AM

Thanks Val!

Yes, you're right. Seems like that's the best guage right now, since I'm not able to actually get her healthy. She is feeling better than she has.
Posted by: bianca

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, thyroid - 11/10/13 03:35 AM

That is great reading, well I know it could be better but a happy Jazz wub wub
Posted by: bianca

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, thyroid - 11/17/13 03:46 AM

Any updates Lisa?
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, thyroid - 11/17/13 02:14 PM

Hi bianca. Jazz has had a bit of a rough time. She tweaked her back and has a been a bit yelping (can't get to the chiro until (tues), and then she didn't feel well last night and has been vomiting several times this morning.

I'm trying to figure out what's going on, could be a few things, or maybe something unrelated. And of course I have a bad sore throat this morning too frown

I can't wait for this term to be over.
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, thyroid - 11/17/13 02:24 PM

hugging hugging One for each of you.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 11/17/13 02:42 PM

Thanks Bonnie smile

I should probably mention that she was given her remedy, Phosphorous 200C, so I'm wondering if she is having an aggravation, with both the back and vomiting issue. Not sure, I'll talk to the vet at the end of next week though.
http://www.ndhealthfacts.org/wiki/Homeopathic_Phosphorus
http://www.herbs2000.com/homeopathy/phos.htm
Posted by: bianca

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 11/18/13 12:20 AM

Oh crap that's not the answer I was hoping for frown Adding my hugging for you both hugging
Posted by: TimberWolf

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 11/18/13 08:32 AM

Originally Posted By: bianca
Oh crap that's not the answer I was hoping for frown Adding my hugging for you both hugging


What bianca said. hugging
Posted by: Schnickle Fritz

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 11/18/13 01:12 PM

boo
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 12/04/13 10:54 PM

Just checking in...

Jazz has had some shivering incidences, here are videos when she came home one day from daycare. They aren't good quality at all, and the limb shivering, both her front and back legs are just shaking, this was after she had rested awhile and it had calmed to some degree.

body
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pq-tjTTpg-A

limbs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvUbK-ZHzyQ

I can somewhat maanage this with herbals, but am holding off for now, we are repeating her addison's test on tuesday, and then we have an appt with the speciailist next thursday. She has trembling at certain times, but only a few times has it been so systemic and ongoing. I can illicit no pain response. Her acupuncturist thinks it's neurological - needling certain points can almost, but not quite, mimic the shivering. We did recheck the urinalysis to be sure it wasn't a relapse of those issues.

Of course everything happens at once, work has me barely managing here, and mom went to the hospital tonight, we don't yet know what's wrong.

The good news is that tomorrow is a day is that I can bring jaZz with me in the morning for awhile, so that will be a good morning smile
Posted by: TimberWolf

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 12/04/13 11:35 PM

Oh my gosh Lisa, this is a lot of shivering. Thank you for posting the video. This way we get an idea what you are talking about when you mention her shivering. That is so weird. I am so sorry I can't lend a hand regarding advise. I am pretty much clueless but wanted to let you know that my thoughts and heartfelt wishes for a solution are with you.

Also, about your mom....gosh...I hope it's nothing serious. Can you keep us posted please?

I hate it when I feel at such a loss for words. How I wish I could say the perfect things and give the perfect advise. Sending you a huge cyper hugs.
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 12/05/13 12:02 AM

I hope your mom is ok--sending all good thoughts her way!

Rafi does that when he's overstimulated. He doesn't do it that often but it's when he is really keyed up and has to exercise a lot of self-control. For example, occasionally if he sees prey and I tell him to sit and leave it the shaking will start and he will also start shrieking. I've also assumed it's a mali thing since they are generally wired so tight. I guess I haven't thought about it that much because it fits Rafi's personality. shrug
Posted by: bianca

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 12/05/13 02:10 AM

Oh Lisa I am so sorry about your Mum, I hope you get some answers soon hugging hugging

Watching the clips, that is how Molly shakes during thunder. I don't know that helps any? hugging hugging
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 12/05/13 08:54 AM

Thank you guys. Checking in real quick here...

Jazz's trigger is stress, but meal time is enough to trigger it, so trying to find the underlying cause since it's pretty debilitating. One time she just went up to my bed and cried during the epiode, I think it scared her.

With luck, mom jut has an electrolyte imbalance, will know more later...
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 12/05/13 09:35 AM

Lisa,

I don't know about real bodies, but either the video of Jazz' limbs had a really weird quality or it actually looked like the muscle fibers themselves contracting. I mean it was a very fine response. It's good she's coming in with you, today.

I'm sorry to hear about your mother. Is she thin? My tiny mother had electrolyte imbalances often, but she had so little body fluid, a tiny difference changed things a lot. I hope she can come home today.

Please keep us posted about everybody, including Lisa.

Mary Jane
Posted by: Schnickle Fritz

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 12/05/13 11:39 AM

frown
Posted by: TimberWolf

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 12/05/13 03:46 PM

This is so strange to me. There are obviously a number of reasons as to the source of this type of shaking but most include stress or anxiety. Why would she be anxious eating? That is so weird.

Please give Ms Jazzy a gentle hug from me.
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 12/05/13 09:44 PM

Lisa, I hope your mother is doing better now. So much going on.

Poor Jazzy girl. I have never seen anything exactly like this, but it makes me think of seizures. Didn't you do some checking on that at one time? She seems almost to be a a kind of trance, as if she is not really aware of her surroundings.

I feel so sad for both of you going through this.

Does she do this no matter where she is, or in just certain places?
Posted by: bianca

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 12/07/13 04:12 AM

Lisa hoping your Mum is on the improve hugging hugging

With the eating, would it help to scatter her food outside (on the lawn)? Both Coop and Moo have/are going through phases where they muck around and don't want to eat. I wonder if you could make it more of a game whether that may help?
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 12/07/13 12:50 PM

Hi all, checking in.

About mom, once I was able to talk to the doctor, turns out she was heading to renal failure, all her kidney values were slowly rising. I've heard (but missed the calls yesterday), the bloodwork is stable now, so I'm guessing that means they stopped rising. That's good.

Jazz had another shiver incident yesterday. This would not be entirely inconsistent with addison's or relative adrenal insufficiency, though I don't think a uual presentation. She only has those prolonged episodes after daycare, but less sever trembling has happened before meals since she was young, and the first 10-15 minutes in the car.

The acupuncture vet also noted the muscle fiber reaction. She had never seen anything like it, though did mention there were a couple of videos of myokymia on VIN that looked similar. I guess we'll see what the specialist has to say on tuesday. I don't know if I'll get much of a chance to talk to him before thursday though.

Oh, that myokymia can occur with or without something called neuromyotonia, which is a hyperexcitement of the nerves, and that would sound about right.

I guess we'll see.
Posted by: TimberWolf

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 12/07/13 03:14 PM

Wow, I have no idea what all these medical terms mean. Just continue to hope for total recovery for Jazzy.

What happened to your mom for her to go into renal failure? Did she have some sort of infection in her body? I am glad they stabilized her but hope they will be able to find the source. That is scary.
Posted by: SeanRescueMom

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 12/07/13 05:53 PM

Glad your mom is stable now but sorry to hear about Miss Jazz. Sending special thoughts and lot of hugs your way. hugging hugging hugging
Posted by: bianca

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 12/08/13 01:52 AM

hugging hugging grouphug
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 12/08/13 08:48 AM

Just dropping by to tell you I am thinking of you and your mother.

I hope Jazzy is having a good day. hugging
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 12/08/13 09:20 AM

Jazmine has the best medical care per ounce of any living creature-and she deserves every bit of it. OK more of these crossedfingers that you get answers and something actionable next week.

I'm glad that your mother stabilized and I hope she also got advice on how to remain stable.

take care,
MJ
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 12/08/13 12:16 PM

Thanks smile I can't wait to get this test done and the results.

Elvi, I guess when older people fall, and they are down on the ground for awhile, their muscles start to release an enzyme that is very damaging to the kidneys. So this muscle breakdown will cause renal failure if left for too long. If they are down for a day or two, this process will apparently kill them. I had no clue that such an innocent thing on the surface could be so fatal. She will be coming home today they say, we opted not to put her in rehab, but it's unclear if the job will be too big for us long term, as she may now need a higher level of care after this - the docs and nurses say they usually do not come back the same person as before the fall, so we are hoping for some luck here.

Bianca, forgot to mention the food and scattering it. She gets mush for food - it's ground so that she can eat and digest it. Her tongue doesn't work right, so she is usually fed with a spoon. I think I might ask to test for myasthenia gravis next on the list. Doesn't quite fit, but I'm not sure can be ruled out. I just really want to get this addison's test done and get the results.
Posted by: TimberWolf

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 12/08/13 03:59 PM

Oh my gosh Lisa, I had no idea. That is terrible!!! I so glad your mom is doing better. Thank you for this information. It is always good to know things like that.

Please keep us posted regarding Jazzy.
Posted by: Good_Karma

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 12/08/13 04:43 PM

Just wanted to say I still read this thread, but never can think of anything helpful to say! So sorry about your mother being ill. There is never a good time for that sort of thing, but it seems particularly bad when it is this time of year with the holidays and all. frown
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 12/08/13 05:28 PM

I wish there was something I could do or say to help. All I can think of is just that, like others, I am with you in spirit.

I hope when your mother gets home her recovery will be better than expected.

hugging
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 12/08/13 06:33 PM

Lisa,

Sending you my very best thoughts for your sweet Jazzy and for your mom. hugging
Posted by: bianca

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 12/09/13 03:31 AM

Adding my best thoughts to you, your Mum and sweet Jazz grouphug
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 12/09/13 10:03 AM

My tiny mother fell several times in her last years, it was always a physical shock and a shock to her confidence. It was troubling to read that your mother couldn't get up for some time, I am so sorry. I do understand how she might want to be in her own home with your father.

Like everybody, I deeply hope that Jazz' many doctors really get to the bottom of her difficulties and then suggest remedies.

MJ
Posted by: Schnickle Fritz

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 12/09/13 11:20 AM

wow I didn't know that you had to feel jazz that way....and hope that your mom will get better...
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 12/10/13 07:54 PM

Thank you everyone for your thoughts. They must have helped, Mom is home now, working on recovering, and thank goodness my sister is also able to be there with them, at least for now.

Today was Jazz's addison's test. Unless it's dangerously low, I won't find out the details until our appointment on Thursday. She's completely exhausted now though. Oddly, she became really calm there, and then tired too....


You can see her sometimes droopy eye here (part of her neuro issues I think, maybe thyroid):


Some better pictures, at the chiropractor after, and a few from the time before:






She and I are looking forward to the next couple of weeks being over, and then we will both be able to get some rest and relaxation!


Posted by: Schnickle Fritz

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 12/10/13 08:20 PM

nice pictures...
Posted by: TimberWolf

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 12/10/13 08:20 PM

She is so adorable wub and such a trooper. No doubt she is tired of all that poking as well. Hopefully, the addison test will show something more conclusive.

I hope you will be able to get away for a bit during the break. You two really do need a break. hugging
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 12/10/13 08:29 PM

Interesting how tired your girl was. It kind of reminds of how I handle stress. Low blood pressure, yawning, sleep. Not sure if that means anything, but she did seem that way.

Her pictures are wonderful - easy to see why she stole your heart. smile
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 12/10/13 09:37 PM

Super-Girl Indeed!

Your Jazz owns (parts of) many hearts.

Looking forward to some reasonable treatment plan Thursday.

She really is a doll.

Mary Jane
Posted by: bianca

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 12/11/13 03:41 AM

wub wub Eagerly awaiting the results with you hugging

I'm glad you Mum is home now and wishing the very best for her and all your family, sesame girl included of course hugging
Posted by: Shepherds

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 12/12/13 06:35 AM

Hi Lisa - so sorry to read this - it always seems it never rains but pours. Hope you Mum is on the road to recovery and that being back in a home environment will be a boost for her.

Hope the results give you some ideas for Jazz. Beautiful pics wub gorgeous girl wub
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 12/12/13 08:25 AM

Here are plenty of best wishes that you get test results and interpretation that make sense and suggest a wellness approach for Jazz.

MJ
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 12/12/13 10:33 AM

smile appt in about 4 hours...
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 12/12/13 08:45 PM

Any news? poke
Posted by: SeanRescueMom

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 12/12/13 09:18 PM

Originally Posted By: PositiveDog
Any news? poke


Ditto!
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 12/12/13 09:37 PM

Thanks for asking!!!

LOL, once we finally got home, we both just promptly fell asleep crazy The appointment was about 30 or 40 minutes late, guess he had to do an emergency procedure on a dog. Glad I had the time to wait around.

The bottom line is that we still know nothing headbang Not only is she not Addison's, but her adrenal function improved so that now both values are well within normal range. I had completely resigned myself to a pred trial as a last resort, and now it looks like that not only is the not the right thing to do, but might carry with it more risk than some of our other options.

He divides the reason for the tremors into different categories....
  • metabolic -adrenal, thyroid, nutrition, etc.
  • pain and/or discomfort - low on his list because of her presentaton
  • toxin induced - clostridium, mushrooms, or mold, etc. also low on list because of presentation
  • neuromuscular - white shaker syndrome (at least 1/2 of all dogs that have this are not white and Jazz's presentation looks perhaps closest to this) or maybe a seizure disorder like partial seizures or visceral epilepsy, I think this is the category where he also listed brain infection (like neospora) shocked


We have a short list of things to try -
  • cipro, since it used to make the tremors stop, and it would give us info
  • thyroid trial (current thyroid results here)
  • pred trial
  • more neuro info from neuro tests


Since her tremors are manageable right now and our stress level will be decreased with the term winding down (meaning we don't have to stop them immediately), we are going to start with the drug trial thing that will do the least amount of damage if it doesn't work, which is a thyroid trial. He said we'll know within a month, but I think IF it works, we will see indications before then.

If it gets worse and/or unmanageable, we'll start the cipro trial, he gave me the dosage to use in case I need it and I can't get a hold of him.

There's still a question of why the adrenal function improved (maybe the long term antibiotics?), and those questions, along with other infectious possibilities, make pred a risky option right now (have I mentioned lately how much I like this vet?????).

He usually has a vet that is "shadowing" him during his appointments (different one each time), and they usually hang back, take notes, etc. Today's mentioned MRI or spinal taps. While my vet didn't completely dismiss them, he did put them in context, about the difficultly often that they don't give information, or, if they tell you, they often don't give a solution since many of these things, even if you find something, don't have a cure. So the cost/benefit ratio has to be taken into consideration.


Tracking down the meds, my goodness, I still don't have them. The clinic didn't have non-generic in her size (0.2 mg twice a day), so he gave me a script (for Synthroid). Stopped at Walgreen's, forgot to ask them if they have Soloxine, but the Synthroid for 100 tablets, they charge about $100 with discount card, yikes!! I went to my other vet place that had the Soloxine, but after waiting nearly 30 minutes for them to fill it, they said they couldn't fill it since they aren't a pharmacy. aaargh (a non-corporate vet place probably would have filled it). Called Costco, and they have the Soloxine, have to order Jazz's size, but for the 100 tabs will charge $6 for their member price. LOL, I'm waiting for them to come in at Costco laugh
Posted by: Shepherds

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 12/12/13 10:36 PM

Damn - how confusing and with no real definitive outcome. It must be doing your head in. Ive said it before but it is worth repeating - Jazz is very lucky to have found you... others would not be so dedicated to her care and committed to trying to find the answer to her health woes.

I wouldnt just be doing this headbang... Id be doing this hammer this confused2 this feelingblue and I think my head would have exploded by now from all the thinking

Your vet sounds terrific and I hope somewhere amongst the next plan is the little bit of light that leads to resolving Jazz's issues.

I cant believe the difference in the price of the drugs from one place to the other.
Posted by: TimberWolf

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 12/12/13 10:43 PM

Wow, I don't know what to say. Such a mystery. Brain infection? Wouldn't there be other major symptoms if that were the case? What do you mean "because of her presentation?" I don't understand LOL.

I am glad you both got a good rest after the Dr. visit. Thank you so much for the update. I continue hoping (together with everybody else, of course) that the source of this will be found. Hugs.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 12/12/13 11:26 PM

Originally Posted By: Shepherds
Damn - how confusing and with no real definitive outcome. It must be doing your head in. Ive said it before but it is worth repeating - Jazz is very lucky to have found you... others would not be so dedicated to her care and committed to trying to find the answer to her health woes.

I wouldnt just be doing this headbang... Id be doing this hammer this confused2 this feelingblue and I think my head would have exploded by now from all the thinking

Your vet sounds terrific and I hope somewhere amongst the next plan is the little bit of light that leads to resolving Jazz's issues.

I cant believe the difference in the price of the drugs from one place to the other.

LOL, yes, exactly, my head IS exploding. I started by asking him if he wanted to talk, or if I should babble about all the things spinning in my head, and we went with my head spinning first, which was kinda funny. I had pictures and a lot of things to report, so once he heard everything, he put it all into some sort of context.

Isn't it crazy about those drug prices? There is no rhyme or reason, just difference in profits....
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 12/12/13 11:28 PM

Originally Posted By: LMS
Wow, I don't know what to say. Such a mystery. Brain infection? Wouldn't there be other major symptoms if that were the case? What do you mean "because of her presentation?" I don't understand LOL.

I am glad you both got a good rest after the Dr. visit. Thank you so much for the update. I continue hoping (together with everybody else, of course) that the source of this will be found. Hugs.

I guess the tremors and various neuro symptoms are the major symptoms of a brain infection.

Thanks for the well wishes, I will let her know too!
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 12/13/13 12:08 AM

I was thinking about the tremors because Rafi was doing it a couple of days ago when he was worked up about something and I remembered that when I adopted him and he had full-blown SA when I would come home and let him out of his crate he would tremble like that for hours and then he would finally fall asleep and he would cry (as in fearful, disturbed cry) in his sleep.

So I was thinking about Jazz and wondering if you have tried a really good animal communicator? And also maybe Reiki and T-touch. Personally, I'd go that route before any of that invasive stuff.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 12/13/13 01:07 AM

Originally Posted By: BowWowMeow

So I was thinking about Jazz and wondering if you have tried a really good animal communicator? And also maybe Reiki and T-touch. Personally, I'd go that route before any of that invasive stuff.

I've tried two different communicators....

I do Reiki on her (I'm trained in Reiki I and II), and do some TTouch, though not much of that, more myofascial work. It's an odd balance, some of it can help with the tremors, but a lot is hyperstimulating.

I agree with you about the invasive stuff - I don't really see that as useful at this point. Now that her addison's test is done and over, I can start trying a few things here and there. I was holding off on several things because I didn't want to mess with the adrenal system. She has had some version of the tremors since she came here, depending on what antibiotics she has been on.

I can't help but think that this is related to her SA too, as with Rafi.
Posted by: bianca

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 12/13/13 02:17 AM

Oh wow Lisa, I don't fully understand all that you mentioned but it's good news isn't it that no Addisons? I hope you can get her new medication soon and then at least know if that is going to make a difference hugging hugging And a gentle hugging for your sweet girl hugging
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 12/13/13 10:23 AM

Jazz IM doctor is really something. Off hand, I can think of only two MDs that have been as dedicated and open-minded as this person. Having had one course of steroids and now taking thyroid hormone, I also vote for the latter to test a treatment strategy.

I didn't look hard but the lowest cost for my 50 microgram levothyroxine was a dime a pill.

I do look forward to some promising posts about Jazz's shivers.

MJ
Posted by: SeanRescueMom

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 12/13/13 08:26 PM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
Called Costco, and they have the Soloxine, have to order Jazz's size, but for the 100 tabs will charge $6 for their member price. LOL, I'm waiting for them to come in at Costco laugh


Lisa, we had the same exact experience with Sean's Leflunomide, i.e. over $100 less at Costco than three other pharmacies. How long will it take for Costco to get the Soloxine?
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 12/13/13 08:55 PM

Thank you bianca hugging

SRM, waiting at Costco right now smile Have to fight holiday traffic on a friday night near the mall to get this filled and get her picked up before daycare closes crazy

The price differential is just crazy!!

MJ, I'm sorry you've been dealing with stuff too frown I am VERY fortunate that this specialist is here and that one of max's vets referred us to him back then. He was great at helping me manage max, and turns out he's the guy that ran the lyme vaccine test on indy that no one else would run, which made all the difference in the world in helping to manage her issues.

The soloxine here, with member pricing is 6 cents a pill, though I expect the human med may be higher. I wanted to make sure I started with a non-generic too. Myself, I take generic, and I know there were long standing issues with it. Recently they either reformulated or switched brands, and my endo said that most patients have required a decrease in dosage.

It's ready!!
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 12/13/13 08:57 PM

They misquoted - it is $8.81, not $6. Lol, I can deal with that easily!
Posted by: bianca

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 12/14/13 02:23 AM

Oh that's a much better price smile
Posted by: TimberWolf

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 12/21/13 12:28 AM

Checking on Ms. Jazzy. How is she doing?
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 12/21/13 11:32 AM

Thanks for checking in on us!

Lol, I was looking at my costco bill, trying to figure out why they charged me a fee for $9 since nothing was late, and I was getting ready to call them, then I realized it was the meds - I *never* make a charge at costco for less than $10 wink.

It's only been a week on the thyroid med - I can see some subtle changes - she I moving easier, has more energy, is calmer, can recover more easily, and oddly doesn't run as hot. She seems to scream less when I leave her sight if she is left in the car or momentarily inside, or when she is picked up at daycare (thank goodness)

But, the last couple days were bad tremor day, so it's hard. I'm going to start playing around with some transmitter stuff here. I gave her some pharmaGaba last night, I couldn't find the l-theanine I had bought. But I think I will start there.

Last Saturday at my study workshop before finals, she did great, but then would crash and need to rest. You can see in her eyes how suddenly tired she was - she fell asleep on a student's hand smile


Posted by: SeanRescueMom

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 12/21/13 11:44 AM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
You can see in her eyes how suddenly tired she was - she fell asleep on a student's hand smile


Awwwwww, what a sweetheart. wub
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 12/21/13 11:51 AM

Originally Posted By: SeanRescueMom
Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
You can see in her eyes how suddenly tired she was - she fell asleep on a student's hand smile


Awwwwww, what a sweetheart. wub


wub
Posted by: TimberWolf

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 12/21/13 12:08 PM

Oh, my goodness Lisa, this picture is so precious. wub

Poor Jazzy. I am glad the Thyroid meds are helping. Just maybe this is bigger start into the right direction.

Enjoy your few days off over the holidays. May both of you be refreshed during this time. Thank you for the update.
Posted by: arycrest

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 12/21/13 12:19 PM

grouphug grouphug grouphug

reindeerlights Sending lots of hugs along with my mega wishes that both you and Jazzy have a very MERRY CHRISTMAS, HAPPY NEW YEAR and that 2014 finds her healthy!!!

grouphug grouphug grouphug
Posted by: Good_Karma

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 12/21/13 01:13 PM

She has such a pretty face. wub
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 12/21/13 05:59 PM

Awww, sleepy sweetie. wub
Posted by: bianca

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 12/22/13 03:25 AM

wub wub I bet she made your students day! Happy to hear there are some improvements and may 2014 be the start of a perfectly healthy and happy Miss Jazz hugging
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 12/22/13 08:00 PM

Thanks everyone, little sleepy girl can be such a sweetie smile

I know that the thryoid isn't going to be the solution, since the tremors get worse the further away we are from stopping the metronidazole, but hopefully they help stabalize something. They seem to help with the frantic episodes at least.

I'm hoping that with some time off, we'll be able to find some answers.
Posted by: bianca

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 12/23/13 02:14 AM

crossedfingers
Posted by: bianca

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 12/31/13 02:57 AM

Lisa just checking how Miss Jazz is doing?
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 12/31/13 11:44 AM

Hi bianca, we've been experimenting quite a bit here (we need a mad scienctist smiley shocked ).

After stopping the flagyl, and on just the thyroid (and the continuing amoxicillin), it didn't stop the tremors, they were progressively worse, and at one point, without herbal support like scullcap, were nearly constant. It was pretty scary.

Plan B was to try cipro, but we knew that wasn't "it", or at least didn't think so, and there are lots of other reasons to be concerned about it, and I just couldn't.

Did a trial of metacam, and that nearly stopped them in their tracks crazy so, consistent with her bloodwork, this appears to be inflammation induced. I think the IMS knew there was a huge inflammatory component, but this was striking. Of course, her gut didn't tolerate the metacam for long, so I'm trying to transition her to doxycycline. We are on day 7, and the tremors are very slight at certain times. I'm hoping to find something that will also normalize her bloodwork while at the same time control her tremors. I'm trying to learn about Th1/Th2 balance in the immune system and how to best support her, but right now I've got the proteolytic enzymes going. I'm hoping to taper off the amoxicillin, and get her on one drug, that has a wide prescribing range, so I can get her off all this crap at some point.

She is reponding well to the thyroid - it's just not what is causing the tremors.

So, no answers yet. A few clues.
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 12/31/13 02:32 PM

You are really doing a public service explaining symptoms, treatments, reactions, and your interpretation. I just wish to heaven this wasn't happening to Jazz (or any other dog).

Have you and the IMS also considered some weird persistent innate immune response? The reason I mention that is they can be triggered by just about anything and sometimes causes tremors.

Thanks a lot for the update,

MJ
Posted by: TimberWolf

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 12/31/13 03:06 PM

Wow, Lisa, by the time this issue is all figured out, you will be able to test out of multiple Veterinarian tests. As much as you are into the scientific studies and love animals, have you ever thought of pursuing a career in Veterinarian medicine. You seem to have a knack for it.

Please give Ms. cutie pie Jazzy a sweet and gentle kiss from me.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 12/31/13 06:39 PM

Elvi, you are too kind! I am sure they would kick me out of vet school for some of my ideas wink , but I am a mathematician, which means I'm a problem solver. I just wish this weren't such a difficult problem frown I will certainly deliver the kiss though!

Mary Jane, I don't know about public service, but certainly seems to be Not uncommon, the infection vs immune system dysregulation question. I think we are just most hesitant to make a commitment in the direction of the latter.

I know that the IMS feels like he is communicating with me, but I think there is a lot that he is not saying - you know, that stuff they know from experience and don't really think about mentioning. I really need to remember to ask some beTter questions next time.

Indy had that persistent type of inflammation. There is one supplement I haven't used on her, which can shut down a good chunk of that, but I feel all of that is so immune suppressive, and I don't know if it will suppres the right part.

She's got that lymphocyte shift, and some reactive lymphocytes, and some basophils showing up. MJ, any thoughts on whether this could be some weird virus?
Posted by: bianca

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 01/01/14 02:54 AM

hugging hugging Oh Lisa I was I was clever enough with all of this to actually offer some help. But as I can't a gentle smooch for your sweet girl and hugging to you.
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 01/01/14 12:41 PM

Lisa,

I have been so caught up in sad events here in Buffalo that I haven't been keeping up. I am so sorry that Jazz continues to be a medical enigma. I hope this year brings answers and solutions that will restore her health and allow both of you to more fully enjoy your lives together. hugging
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 01/01/14 02:16 PM

Smooches and hugs delivered bianca, thank you!

Ruth, I hope so too. I am so sorry you are dealing with sad things right now frown

I am reading this thread about amoxi side effects, and hoping I can get her transitioned to see if there is any improvement: http://m.topix.com/forum/drug/amoxicillin/TCPVQAR8AG8T3D046/p20
Never realized that some people respond to the med with increased anxiety, and fatigue. She has a lot of fatigue, definitely not the energy of a 2 year old dog. Started to wean her off amoxi last night - hope the doxy will be sufficient.

I'll know within 3 days about the amoxi, that's when the tremors start setting in when I try to back off a drug.
Posted by: bianca

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 01/02/14 04:48 AM

Keeping paws crossed here Lisa hugging My Mum is highly allergic to Amoxicillin, one more dose would kill her (has a medicalert bracelet) and I wonder if dogs can be to?
Posted by: SeanRescueMom

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 01/02/14 10:52 AM

Lisa, not saying it is autoimmune related but one thing that is highly common with autoimmune illness in humans is a contraindication to amoxicillin. Thinking of Miss Jazz and wishing her a Happy & Healthier year in 2014. hug
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 01/02/14 12:59 PM

Lisa,

I imagine it could be a weird virus, but once you say it's weird then you still need a lot of judgment to know what to do.

The chronic nature of Jazz' symptoms makes me wonder about immune disorders, but having said that I wouldn't know how to go further.

Waiting for tomorrow (?) to hear about the shift from amoxicillin to doxy. crossedfingers

MJ
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 01/02/14 01:58 PM

Hmmm, interesting things to think about, thank you ladies smile . The obvious thing when you have unchecked inflammation that is ongoing is a course of pred, but we are just worried about this, and I trust the IMS' intincts here.

The amoxicillin and flagyl were needed to fight the clostridium perfringens. Unlike every other dog I've had, the amoxi hasn't been a magic bullet for her, but I also haven't been able to wean her off of it. Last night, after missing her second evening dose, she tremored a bit, which freaked me out, but it went away quickly, so tonight she will miss her third evening dose. Tomorrow a full day at daycare (parent stuff), so tomorrow evening will be a big clue. Aack, nervous! If I can't get her off amoxi, my whole plan goes to heck.
Posted by: bianca

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 01/03/14 04:28 AM

crossedfingers hugging
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 01/03/14 01:54 PM

Originally Posted By: Mary Jane

Have you and the IMS also considered some weird persistent innate immune response? The reason I mention that is they can be triggered by just about anything and sometimes causes tremors.


I'm beginning to think that the CNS, spine and neck stuff is from her rabies shot, and this lump when I got her was from a different vaccine:



A little extra shivering, but no meltdown yet. More hesitant to eat though. Hopefully she'll be able to do this.

Worth adding, about vaccine reactions: https://www.knowbetterpetfood.com/are_we_vaccinating_too_much
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 01/04/14 11:03 AM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
...A little extra shivering, but no meltdown yet. More hesitant to eat though.


How is Jazz doing now?
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 01/04/14 04:38 PM

Not sure how to answer that.

No major tremors, no meltdown - good!!

Last night, I thought I felt what I call micro-tremors, which are not visual, but you can feel them subtly, but they went away after being held. I did that in the morning too - but she had a long day at daycare for the firt time in a week or so.

I am still encouraged - 4 nights with no amoxi dose. If we get through a week, I'll try dropping the morning too, or maybe taper. If it's acting more as an anti-inflammatory than an abx, not sure.

Will have to see how her poop goes over the next few days.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 01/05/14 12:48 AM

So far so good, I am encouraged!!! Perfect poop this morning smile

still being cautious....
Posted by: bianca

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 01/05/14 02:30 AM

Oh keeping everything crossed here, this is sounding promising!
Posted by: Woodreb

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 01/05/14 09:17 AM

poop crossedfingers
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 01/06/14 06:12 PM

Well, we had a meltdown this morning. After a period of increasing food refusal at meals.

Not sure what I'm going to do, but I will try to stay the course for a bit and see if we can get through this. Stools are GOOD, so this seems to be more related to a systemic issue than solely a gut issue. I guess that's a big clue.

She might be doing better because I'm still on break and stress has been low. Yesterday was an hour walk in a new area by the river, so maybe she overdid it, or it put her CNS in a hyperexcited state. Thinking about next step thinking
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 01/06/14 08:26 PM

I see what you mean about a real meltdown and good digestion separating some pathways.

I really admire your intellectual dedication here-while you dearly wish Miss Jazmine was just OK.

Hang in there Lisa and Jazz. Things are resolving, somehow.

please take care,
MJ

PS she is surely happier with more time with you. Anybody would be.
Posted by: bianca

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 01/07/14 02:10 AM

hugging hugging Wishing I could offer more frown
Posted by: SeanRescueMom

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 01/07/14 09:48 AM

Glad you had the time off to be with her, it always seems to help, doesn't it? Fingers crossed you have a better week. crossedfingers
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 01/07/14 05:18 PM

Thank you ladies! grouphug

encephilitis meningitis meningoencephalitis - infectious autoimmune congenital defect

pick some combination of the first group and the second group, and maybe we'll hit the jackpot????

Blah!
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 01/08/14 08:24 AM

Some nervous system inflammation of some cause? hammer

What next for this sweet girl?
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 01/08/14 10:16 AM

That's it MJ!!! laugh

Blood draw for thyroid check next wed, and I think I'll try to get a blood panel run too, the following day or so. She had those basophils appearing, and that shift to too many lymphocytes compared to neutrophils. I'd like to know if the doxy is having any affect on that, since the amoxi and flagyl didn't, and they appeared after the many rounds of cipro when she had her urinary issues.

Pred is still on the table, but, when I look up all these weird shaker syndromes in dogs and even ferrets, they often mention an infectious component, so I'm pretty nervous about what to do next. I had contacted her homeopathic vet and I'm waiting for a remedy, but this is the second time she's been lagging, so I think he is not in the right space to help her right now frown . I still want to look at some extreme nutritional support, in case this is viral. It's not terrible right now, but I'm sure things will get a lot worse when I go back to work at the end of the month. Today is a day care day - we'll see how the morning goes.

Adding a pic of how weird she holds her neck, it's just not right...



This was before she started the doxy:



Should also add that I'll see the IMS once I get all the new bloodwork together, and see what all this new information means to him. I trust his instincts.
Posted by: bianca

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 01/09/14 05:22 AM

Her pink sweater wub wub Lisa I'm so sorry you still have no answers yet frown Her neck does seem in an odd position hugging hugging
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 01/22/14 06:02 PM

This will be kinda a depressing post, but I'm just putting some notes here, for the record, in case I want to find them later.

I've been worried about this ongoing inflammation of jazz's that I can't get a handle on, which is exhibiting in a variety of ways. She also has chronically full neck lymph nodes.

Since a slow growing lymphoma is not ruled out (because of current bloodwork that has not changed much), I went looking for information about using pred.

Depressing, about the risk of lymphoma in long term inflammatory conditions:
http://cebp.aacrjournals.org/content/15/11/2069.long

Since she came with this lymph node problem, and this has occurred so young, I went looking for information about lymphoma in children, and using pred, since we have not taken this option off the table. This really depressed me - showed that children with a certain anti-inflammatory defect with IBD, when treated with immunosuppressive therapy, statistically still go on to develop lymphoma, in spite of suppressive treatment, when compared to the group without the genetic defect.
http://www.hematology.org/News/2013/11411.aspx

This article talks about treating inflammatory cancers (includes those induced by bacterial and viral causes) with antibiotics: http://www.what-is-cancer.com/papers/InflammatoryCancers.html which is basically what kept Max here so long.

Tomorrow we see the IMS. She has responded well to the thyroid replacement, and the dose may be a bit high. Bloodwork changed a bit, but I think it's of little significance, since we still have the same dramatic shift towards the lymphocytes.

The tremors, not exactly sure about those, but they may be a cause of some kind of stomach ulceration, and am currently doing a trial with tramadol and sucralfate/slippery elm, and other stuff, adding a good dose of liquid B-12 also, for the lymphs. She is not eating well though. Wondering about H. pylori a bit. Ordered some lymphomyosot for the lymphs too, and will probably be giving some IP6 if she responds to it.

I think I've been focusing on the trees and not the forest, either that or I'm just turning in circles.

But she looks great, and when she's out she has a lot of energy and no one would believe that she's sick, so that's something.
Posted by: MSD

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 01/22/14 06:20 PM

MaxaLisa— I’m so sorry. Look, I’m not an expert, but here’s some information I’d like to share with you, maybe it could shed light or help or not, I don’t know, but no harm sharing. Wishing you and Jazz the best.

Also, re: the inflammation, I’ve read recently that could come from being too acidic. I don’t know what a doggies pH level should be, but could be something easy to test at home.

A couple of links for you:
https://www.facebook.com/energiseforlife

http://www.castoroilhome.com/castor-oil-lymph-treatment

http://www.budwigcenter.com/acid-ph-dangers.php

This one is about nasal cancer, you may already know about it I think, but includes some diet and supplement possibilities???
http://dognasalcancertreatmentforlucy.blogspot.ca/2011/10/budwig-diet-plan-for-dog-nasal-cancer.html

Am I being too premature, on the wrong path, probably? If so I’m sorry.
Posted by: Schnickle Fritz

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 01/22/14 06:20 PM

thanks for the update..... I am sorry that you and jazz are going through this...
Posted by: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 01/22/14 06:31 PM

Lisa I am so sorry that you and Jazz is going through all of this.

I have no words of wisdom. Just wanted you to know that I am thinking about you guys.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 01/22/14 06:55 PM

Thanks Schnickle and Val. I'm pretty discouraged at this point, but hoping that means I'll stumble across the right "something" soon.

MSD, thanks for the links! I have been thinking about Ph, which is difficult here because of her dietary restrictions. Interesting about the oil castor and the lymph stuff, will have to look into that more closely. I don't think I've tried cottage cheese for her yet....
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 01/22/14 07:16 PM

Lisa, I am so sorry for this long, frustrating journey for you and Jazzy.

I keep thinking she hugging 'll turn a corner and just begin to get better.

Thanks for keeping us posted. You never know who it may help down the road and is a good way for you to track everything.
Posted by: SeanRescueMom

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 01/22/14 08:33 PM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
Depressing, about the risk of lymphoma in long term inflammatory conditions:
http://cebp.aacrjournals.org/content/15/11/2069.long

Since she came with this lymph node problem, and this has occurred so young, I went looking for information about lymphoma in children, and using pred, since we have not taken this option off the table. This really depressed me - showed that children with a certain anti-inflammatory defect with IBD, when treated with immunosuppressive therapy, statistically still go on to develop lymphoma, in spite of suppressive treatment, when compared to the group without the genetic defect.


Lisa, as you know my youngest daughter has an inflammatory autoimmune illness. Prior to her being 'officially' diagnosed she presented with symptoms of IBD. One of her specialists has touched on the long term risk of Lymphoma. However, she is still being treated with immunosuppressive therapy. All the research indicates this protocol. If you'd like to pm me I'd be glad to discuss more with you. Hugs to Jazz and you. hug
Posted by: bianca

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 01/23/14 03:20 AM

hugging I don't understand much of any of this but just want your sweet girl to be 100% and SOON hugging
Posted by: TimberWolf

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 01/23/14 07:42 AM

hugging to both of you.
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 01/23/14 08:27 AM

I think I mentioned this before but my mother had a h pylori associated lymphoma that was successfully treated with antibiotics. Chronic inflammation/immune response drives so many problems.

I'm awfully sorry that you feel discouraged right now. I imagine talking through some of the possibilities with the IMS can be fruitful.

If Jazz can balance on that pink ball surely there's a way to get her completely well.

Keep us posted,

MJ
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 01/23/14 08:43 PM

Can you tell us what you and Jazz' IMS decided?
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 01/23/14 10:14 PM

Thank you guys. I had to go to work and then the folks' today. Jazz was tremoring after dinner, so I'm sitting here typing one handed for the moment, while the other is on her smile

SRM, if/when we get to the pred usage, I will definitely be in contact.

MJ, I hadn't remembered about your mom. I think the connections are all pretty amazing. I am pretty frustrated with all this, and worse that I am going back to a really sucky schedule starting monday, and I still don't have her stable. I'm going to free my other hand and post the IMS update right away now.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 01/23/14 10:44 PM

Starting last night, Jazz's tremors were bad again, and into this morning. The only good thing about it is that his tech got to see it to some degree, and to a lesser degree, also the vet (she was better by the time he saw her). After it is done, which was quite a bit into the appt., she just crashed and rested. I guess this is what they call the Postictal period - and she has extreme fatigue during these times.

We talked about doing a trial of phenobarbital quite a bit at this point. About how a trial would work, time issues with starting and stopping it, adverse effects (which most dogs don't have). It was when he mentioned that it doesn't cure seizures, only decreases frequency and severity, that the conversation turned.

I don't think we will ever know the real cause, but I believe these might be inflammation induced, and I think we should try to get to the next layer (the inflammation), before settling on treating just the symptom. He thought that was reasonable to try first.

He thinks there are probably several things going on with Jazz, making not only diagnois difficult, but also makes control side effects of meds so it doesn't affect other things more difficult. (For example, meds affecting the gut badly.)

He thinks it's possible that she is in the early stages of disk herniation. Later he talked about possible spinal inflammation with no herniation (meningitis or even polyarthritis).

So then we talked a long time about using pred, and a long time about using doxy. (The doctor shadowing him today was quite bored at this point.) Of course, when I think about using pred, I think small dose, but that' not what would happen here. For example, Max was on 2.5mg per day. For Jazz, he said he could go as low as 5 mg twice a day, but wanted a big enough dose to get the most of the trial. He talked a good amount about the side effects (also worried about posible ulceration with the pred), and I told him that scared me, and he said that starting with doxy wasn't unreasonable, though he questions whether it will be enough of an anti-inflammatory.

So, in terms of treatment, not a lot of change. A one month trial of doxy, which is getting compounded so it will be less likely to cause stomach irritation. I'm calling this plan D (D for doxy), though I really think I'm at plan K. If it becomes worse, or in a couple of weeks it's just too hard on either of is, plan E will be the pred, in case the tremors are induced by inflammation. We'll keep her on the amoxi and thyroid too.

Not sure whether I should start calling them seizures, I am thinking maybe so frown

I will support the integrity of her gut better, and will think about other support. I have held off with some herbals, but I will rethink that now and not worry about sorting out what is doing what - would really like to avoid the pred - would rather have a dog sedated a bit on herbals, than the alternative.

So, not a lot different, just a big dose of reality I guess. Sorry for the length!

Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 01/24/14 12:45 AM

Lisa,

I am sorry that nothing is working. I can't remember if you have spoken to Jazz through an animal communicator or had any Reiki done on her? This all seems so strange; I would really like to know what's going on in her head. Also, is she getting regular acupuncture? I would think that (and acupressure) could really help calm the trembling.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 01/24/14 02:19 AM

Thanks Ruth, but yes, I've consulted two different communicators, though it's been awhile. She gets regular acupunctur (which has helped), and I try to do the body work on her when I can, she's very sensitive and doesn't tolerate much of the energy work.
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 01/24/14 09:49 AM

Bad tremors again-it's just not right. It's just not fair frown
Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa

..... A one month trial of doxy...


What will you look for, reduction/cessation of tremors with minimal digestive effects? I am sure that testing a treatment protocol is correct, but Jazz isn't under observation 24h and I suppose she could shiver when you're away. Of course, I have no alternative, just trying to put myself in your place.


OK, even more of these crossedfingers going forward,

Mary Jane
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 01/24/14 10:46 AM

Mealtime is a pretty regular trigger for her tremors, as well as some car rides, and I think, as overall energy level is a good indicator. I had tried the doxy, and she initially did well, but the trial got screwed up because I tried to back off the amoxicillin right away, and I was also using a cut tab and I think not protecting her stomach right.

Definitely crossedfingers
Posted by: TimberWolf

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 01/24/14 11:55 AM

teary I don't know what to say. Just feel so bad for both of you. This is so unfair.
Posted by: Sylv

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 01/24/14 01:19 PM

I am so sorry you're both dealing with this hugging
Posted by: JakodaCD OA

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 01/24/14 03:30 PM

I'm sorry things are so up and down:(

I don't pretend to know much if anything about these things, but wanted to throw this out there, have you thought of trying meloxicalm vs the pred/doxy?
Posted by: SeanRescueMom

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 01/24/14 05:43 PM

Lisa, I pm'ed you regarding amoxicillin.
Posted by: bianca

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 01/25/14 03:29 AM

hugging hugging
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 01/25/14 03:35 AM

Thank you Elvi, Sylv and bianca - I feel so bad for how miserable she is - it must be a terrible thing to be terrified to eat frown

SRM, got the pm and replied, thanks!

Diane, the IMS did mention maybe combining with an NSAID other than metacam (which her stomach didn't like), though, who knows, might have even been the flavoring.

I'm thinking of running a hair analysis on her to see if any critical nutrients are really really low, or maybe a heavy metal problem. I have to go find the place that I used for Indy and Max. (gosh I miss those two!!!)
Posted by: Shepherds

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 01/25/14 03:53 AM

Oh Lisa...I'm sorry things aren't getting any better with no apparent end in sight to the roller coaster ride.

What is your gut telling you....do you think it's pain induced,... stress induced. It seems odd that some car rides induce tremors....

And at mealtimes....when do the tremors start?
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 01/25/14 02:10 PM

My gut is that this is that she has something wrong with her nervous and muscular systems, since day one. She moves funny, things don't seem to work the way that they should. I do not doubt that there is pain somewhere, in her neck, in the thoracic/lumbar area, somewhere in the sacrum, though I do not know why. I think the gut is part of the larger picture, but a huge constraint. I think I don't understand what her special needs are in terms of diet and supplements, and I suspect that a balanced diet would not be balanced for her, since she probably has extra needs in some area. I think that the amoxicillin is needed to keep things in check that she can't do herself because she is so unwell right now, but I don't think that it's a magic bullet like it was for Indy.

The tremors occur at various times, but they seem to almost always be triggered by eating her meals. Which makes meals very stressful for us - she wants to eat but is afraid to. They occur other times, but 98% of meals end in tremors. Then she can't hold her eyes open. She used to do really weird tongue things, so I wonder if the action of eating, combined with oddness in her neck triggers something, or weirdness with her stomach - the nervous system is so complicated.

Towards the end of the seizure, she looks narcoleptic, and fights to hold her eyes open. Then she needs to rest for a couple of hours, and then she wakes up normal. Going to daycare immediately after eating in the morning must be very difficult for her. If she is not tremoring before she starts eating, it will either suddenly start, or, like today, it was a gradual build. She did get through 3/4 of the meal before her eyes got heavy and she turned away.

Some seizures seem to have fear involved - she looks over her shoulder, she ducks at nothing, she hides, she cowers like she is a dog that gets hit. She was like this when she was at the vets the other day. So glad that the tech knows her and knew how different this was.

I don't think adding the doxy alone will be the answer, but I hope it helps enough so I can work on other things. Her IBD responds really well to the doxy, which is why I think the IMS went with that first.

I had the diet rebalanced, but she won't be able to eat it. I am going to do the hair analysis on her, and see what it says. Also scheduled the chiro for Tuesday, and will do that a bit more frequently and see if that helps. I added some supplements - B-12 to help the lymph and nervous system, Bscullcap to dampen the tremors, boswellia for inflammation, and thinking a few other things. Marshmallow at night for her tummy, since she didn't do well on the slippery elm.

I wish I could take a semester off of work to get her healthy shocked

Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 01/25/14 02:39 PM

Lisa, I saw an article the other day that may be of interest to you. I will try to find it again and pass it on.

In the meantime, have you done any research on muscular dystrophy in dogs. You may be interested in how it relates to eating and tremors.

Just a thought.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 01/25/14 03:49 PM

Originally Posted By: PositiveDog
Lisa, I saw an article the other day that may be of interest to you. I will try to find it again and pass it on.

In the meantime, have you done any research on muscular dystrophy in dogs. You may be interested in how it relates to eating and tremors.

Just a thought.


I hadn't read that connection Bonnie, but I have glanced a bit at MS. Will have to look into that....
Posted by: TimberWolf

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 01/25/14 04:09 PM

Why MS? The reason why I am asking is because I know a bit about MS and was wondering where you see the connection with MS and what is going on in Jazzy.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 01/25/14 04:38 PM

I'm not sure what Bonnie is thinking, but I was looking at all of those neuro conditions. I am actually thinking it might seem more like myasthenia gravis, but the vet says no.

ETA: ....and things I don't know a lot about....the vagus (sp?) nerve - it signals acetyl-choline which can inhibit neuro inflammation, so I've been wondering if that is where the main defect is, a lack of signalling of control. However, supplementing with acetylcholine, that's directly opposite from what usually happens in "traditional" seizures, where they want to increase GABA, which is opposite of acetyl-choline. So I feel like I'm going in circles a bit.

I got through this guys thyroid book this break, but only made a dent in this one, which I'm wondering if might hold some answers: http://www.amazon.com/Isnt-Brain-Working-Revolutionary-Understanding/dp/0985690437
Posted by: TimberWolf

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 01/25/14 04:55 PM

Oh, I see. With MS you would need to look for lesions in either the brain or spine or often both. That is the prominent sign of MS among other signs as well of course.

That book sounds like a really good book to get. I may get it for myself.

Thinking of both of you, Lisa and Jazzy
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 01/25/14 04:58 PM

The problem I am having is that I'm pretty broke, and all my appliances are breaking down, and diagnosis of a neuro condition usually involves *expensive* testing. I am going to have to go trial by error I think.

Yes, I originally bought that book for me, watching my parents age, figured learning a thing or two to prolong that stage would be good thumbup
Posted by: TimberWolf

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 01/25/14 05:35 PM

My husband was diagnosed with MS. My first-hand observation how MS is expressed physically without the expensive tests is numbness in various parts of the body, primarily legs and because of that instability (causing falling frequently). No tremors though. Also, sudden jerks of the legs (restless leg syndrome type of stuff), fatigue. No correlation between symptoms and eating. There is a correlation between symptoms and heat or extreme cold though.

Not even sure if this helps. I totally understand the cost factor. You have done so much already Lisa. I wish I could just come by your house and swoosh you two up into a place of perfect health, and prosperity. Sucks that life doesn't allow that but whatever I can do to help. Please let me know.
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 01/25/14 06:10 PM

Actually, I mentioned muscular dystrophy due to tremors brought on after eating difficulties.

Still can't remember where I saw the article.
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 01/25/14 06:24 PM

Too late to edit, so I will add here.


Actually, I mentioned muscular dystrophy, not ms, due to tremors brought on after eating difficulties.

Still can't remember where I saw the article. But here an excerpt from a different source:

"Difficulty swallowing (dysphagia)
Difficult grasping food (abnormal food prehension)
Excessive drooling (ptyalism)
Exercise intolerance
Muscle stiffness
Muscle tremors
Weakness
Abnormal “bunny-hopping” gait (characteristic trait of CXMD)"

And a link to more info:

http://www.petwave.com/Dogs/Health/Muscular-Dystrophy-X-Linked/Symptoms.aspx


I am just trying to think out of the box, but hope Jazzy has something much simpler. And feels better soon.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 01/25/14 09:38 PM

(My bad, up there I wrote MS instead of MD initially.) Elvi, I'm so sorry about your husband, these are such dreaded conditions. And thank you, sure wish we could be wisked away!!

Bonnie, there was a picture of a dog on FB that had MD, I think I remember looking at it a bit, not sure that it would have gone by your feed. The symptoms, and the ones that you list about, are very familiar. But when I went googling, everything seemed a lot more severe than Jazz, and started much earlier. But I'm sure that there can be varying degrees.

But maybe looking at some of the alternative treatments for the "dystrophies" might be helpful.
Posted by: TimberWolf

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 01/25/14 09:49 PM

ooops, so sorry about that paranoid
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 01/25/14 09:55 PM

Aha..I bet it was on Facebook then.
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 01/25/14 10:05 PM

Here it is...much worse than what has been mentioned, but this is the article that got me thinking.

Thanks, Lisa.

http://thebark.com/content/first-canine-laryngectomy
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 01/25/14 10:39 PM

Yep, that's the same one that I read too - there are some distinct similarities frown , though thankfully on a smaller scale right now.
Posted by: bianca

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 01/26/14 01:58 AM

hugging hugging
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 01/26/14 10:34 AM

Yes, hugging hugging
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 01/26/14 11:22 AM

This is probably not helpful, but whatever plagues Jazz it doesn't sound like the central nervous system but the peripheral nervous system. As far as I recall, and I could easily have forgotten something, her cognitive function is just fine. I guess that's the edge between tremors and seizures and her phantom fear is worrying, but I keep hearing neuromuscular problems in the posts.

I wish things were better for Lisa and Jazz, I guess I'm clutching at straws.

MJ
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 01/26/14 05:13 PM

Mary Jane, any insights are helpful - it helps me to use the right keywords for googling.

I had been thinking about your "balancing on a pink ball" remark the other day. I was really bummed when they changed the time of that class and we had to stop. I probably would have had to stop when my committee work ramped up, but she really liked that class. I have some equipment here, and I took it out this morning. She did okay, but she lost a lot of hind end ability. And she was really bad at the lattice (though it's a bit high). My schedule will be terrible through Feb, but maybe I can sneak some of that in, I think it must help, we did notice she was better at the chiro when she was going to that course.

She has a chiro appointment Tuesday, and I ordered the hair analysis test. My homeopathic vet and I weren't able to connect after a couple of months of trying, so I need to get my thoughts together and look at that more closely, and contact anniej too. Will have to do that after I get caught up for the term. School starts tomorrow and I haven't done a thing to prep shocked
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 01/26/14 05:27 PM

MJ, when I look more at the neuromuscular issues, it tends to bring me to the dystrophies....I sure hope we are missing something simpler.

Even if she has joint pain (and she has been more hesitant to jump lately), it is not clear if some of that is caused by the tremors, or the other way around.
Posted by: Shepherds

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 01/27/14 03:39 AM

Hi Lisa

I've probably missed it somewhere...but have you ruled out esophageal disorders?

And what is the difference in Jazz health wise from when she first arrived in your life to now?

And big hugging to you both
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 02/08/14 07:28 PM

Hi Marie, they haven't considered a local problem with the esophagus, probably because there seem to be several things going on, and the problem appear to be more global. However, I would not be surprised, and have wondered too.

Since coming here, it's been a consistent decline. But in her first 5 months here, if I count her spay, she had 3 surgeries, and a 4th one 7th months later. Those three were to correct congenital issues frown I would not surprised if there were other congenital issues lurking, perhaps relating to hormonal or metabolic processes.


I was able to find a supplement protocol that helps the tremors A LOT. However, after acupuncture on tuesday, where the vet added some neck points to help with seizures, it completely stopped the tremors for that day. When they started to return the next day, and when they were here bad today after I skipped her scullcap dose last night as a trial, I have decided to start the prednisone, given at an anti-inflammatory dose of 5mg twice per day (she is about 20 lbs, a bit less right now).

I'll check in with the IMS the later part of this week for further instructions. He said to start with a week. My acu vet, the one that has been the primary vet for both Indy and Maxwell, encouraged the trial, and said to be prepared for the high dose for two weeks.

crossedfingers

Wonder how long it takes before the bad pred symptoms start.
Posted by: Shepherds

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 02/09/14 07:49 AM

Well at least there is a glimmer of hope that they can be stopped.

I don't know...but just a random thought, esophageal spasms can cause significant pain responses...which could possibly result in tremors and be triggered obviously by eating ( but doesn't explain the car episodes)... Unless she is a nervous traveller and is getting car sick which is causing a similar response.

One of my Bowen clients dog suffered from severe car sickness....one Bowen treatment...it's stopped. That I pit down to putting the dog into a completely calm relaxed state, they forgot to get stressed about it.

I know how reluctant you are about the pred use...but hopefully it's use will provide some more clues...and may any side effects, be short and sweet.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 02/09/14 03:59 PM

I have tried to do some reiki and craniosacral (http://www.equinecst.com/tuning_in.htm), but she is super sensitive, which I guess means I just have to be more persistent, but, honestly, just trying to keep her fed and okay takes up so much time during the day, I can't keep things straight as it is.

She used to do a lot of head shaking and neck scratching, which I may associate with some of this. I honestly think there is some kind of brain/spine inflammation, and then all sorts of stuff on top of that.

Very interesting about the esophageal spasms, I will have to watch and think about that. She has persistent enlarged lymph nodes or salivary glands in the neck, and that may be related perhaps. I think they are lymph, and they probably go along with her bloodwork, which is a shift to a higher percentage of lymph nodes as compared to neutrophils.

I've found that baking soda therapy (which I learned from Max wub ), helps her a lot, so I think there are issues with her mucous membranes not being protective and having problems with acidity, which very well may impact the esophagus. She has thin abdominal muscles, and it's possible thin mucous membranes as well.

After day 1 of pred, she started tremoring before her meal this morning instead of during frown , but it calmed very quickly, so I don't know what that means. I am starting to give marshmallow a bit before meals for protection.

I am going to make her some chicken broth today, I think the chicken/bones are thawed enough - then I can at least have something to give her between meals that shouldn't be too irritating to her innards.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 02/09/14 05:52 PM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
....
I've found that baking soda therapy (which I learned from Max wub ), helps her a lot, so I think there are issues with her mucous membranes not being protective and having problems with acidity, which very well may impact the esophagus. She has thin abdominal muscles, and it's possible thin mucous membranes as well.....

Forgot to mention, I think that this is one of the first things that MSD mentioned awhile back, which I had in the back of my mind....
Posted by: Shepherds

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 02/09/14 07:19 PM

hugging understand completely how time consuming and all encompassing looking after a sick animal can become.....it can be very difficult to see the wood from the trees....and maybe given Jazz isn't in any immediate danger....you and her just need to take a step back...take a break from everything (even for a few days), just treat to give pain relief and allow your mind to clear, so you can regroup and regather your thoughts....whilst just enjoying Jazz.

To me (and I apologize if this is completely out of line and could be I'm missed the time frames involved) but there seems to be a lot of changing, swapping of medications and supplements which in itself can create issues....and maybe it's time to just go back to basics.... And do/add one thing at a time, wait six weeks to gauge a response (unless it is adverse response) and then make your next adjustment.

As you know, gut issues can take a long time to resolve and a very delicate balancing act with mucous membranes taking a long to to heal and with so much of the body relying on healthy gut function that's a huge battle in itself....and if you can get that right...then maybe the rest will follow.

I understand the need to throw everything we can at something...particularly with a loved one who is sick and you just want them healthy and happy, but sometimes that chuck everything at it approach, (whilst it also makes us feel more in control and like we are actually doing something useful to help them) is not the best option.

Again apologies if Ive overstepped....I once had significant health issues myself, constantly chasing and changing things and it continued to spiral out of control and it was only with the help of an excellent naturopath and going back to basics and the applying the KISS approach that turned it around.

What is the baking soda therapy?
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 02/09/14 08:41 PM

No, not out of line at all, I understand what you are saying completely.

If she didn't have to eat, I could take a break for a few days. But this is directly tied to her ability and willingness to eat. Feeding her takes a minimum of 30 minutes a day, longer if count the pre-medication, eating, post-medication. And today, because we could, she had breakfast in two shifts, which allowed her to eat about 3/4 of her meal in total.

I did take a break awhile back, before her last IMS visit while I was on break, and mostly fasted her for about two days, but that's not feasible when she's at daycare for 11 hours frown Most of the changes are to stop declines in her health, like when when she was on the last trial drug therapy.

Baking soda therapy is just administering baking soda to make the body more alkaline. I was thinking about what MSD said, and recognizing that doxy creates a more acidic condition in the body, I tried giving some BS shortly after the meal where she had the doxy, and it almost immediately stopped the tremors. So, I've made some dietary changes and working on her acidic condition (which is also made worse with pred). It makes sense that she would be having problems with this, from things I've seen over time.

Max had low bicarb and high anion gap, and respiratory distress after meals, which were clear indications of metabolic acidosis of some sort. What I didn't expect, was that after administration, his continual decreasing amylase and non-responsive thyroid normalized, for the first time in a year, and over 6 blood panels. Oddly, Jazz has that same decreasing amylase and non-responsive-to-thyroid-meds thyroid (but okay bicarb and anion gap). So, I'm wondering if there is a weird relationship there - non-responsive thyroid is a sign of metabolic acidosis, and both dogs, this started after a weird infection and withdrawel of abx.

BUT, seizures can also increase acidosis, so it seems to be a chicken and egg thing. Acidosis can also be caused by the wrong strain of probiotics creating an overgrowth of the lactic acid bacteria, and that said that it won't show in those other blood parameters, so I'm chasing my tail a bit. Just concentrating on what makes her feel better and trying to let my intuitive brain lead the way on this one.

It's possible that there are two types of tremors going on.

There is something about the repeated act of chewing that seems to cause the tremors, maybe. Acupuncturing the neck/occipital points temporarily stopped the tremors. Curious if the chiro will find anything on Tuesday.
Posted by: Shepherds

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 02/09/14 10:45 PM

Hi Lisa... I'm not sure if I've mentioned a product to you called Alkala....it does exactly that.

I use it with Reza who's acidity is an issue since the snake bite. He seems to love it (or knows he needs it) I mix it up and syringe it in his mouth. It increases his appetite and It also helps take the edge off him (and again would suggest that's related to the vagus neve/digestion) and I notice if I get slack in giving it to him, his nervous energy increases.

Chicken or the egg are never easy dilemmas to figure out smile

Hopefully the chiro can find something...it's not at all uncommon for dogs to have TMJ issues....is her bite correct?
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 02/11/14 03:33 AM

I remember you mentioning that product before. I think for now I will stick with what I know she reacts well to.

No, her bite is not correct, she has a bit of an underbite - that small dog bad mouth thing.

I was trying to release some of the area in the front of her throat and chest area, and it made her sniff/snort real funny, repeatedly. I did start to do some TTouch around the mouth area last night. She's too sensitive right now for the stronger energetic stuff, but she seemed to enjoy that.

We have had 3 meals without tremors. I'm hesitant to even type it! I didn't give the amoxicillin for those 3 meals, but I also understand that stopping the abx while she is on steroids might be dangerous. Tomorrow I will continue with her amoxi, and see if it makes a difference in the tremors. Thinking of something SRM said earlier about the amoxi, and it has been linked to seizures.

The steroids seem to make her very tired?

Eta: non-food related tremors last night frown I also think the fatigue might be partly her tremor herb. If she does well back on the amoxi, then I will try to back off the herb - that night be why the tremors are better, rather than the pred, I need to test and see. I'd like to take more time for the trials, but with luck, thi pred trial will be hort, particularly at the high dose.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 02/15/14 08:03 PM

The pred trial has not gone well. There has been no major change in the tremors, and they do appear to be worse, constant on some days. I do think that it has made her anxiety and panic attacks *much* worse. Other than that, she slept a lot, played little, and didn't feel like eating. Didn't drink a lot either. Not at all what I expected. It's possible that her back legs are moving more independently (less bunny hopping).

I started weaning her down yesterday - the fear that he I experiencing I unkind.

On a positive note, I tried some ginger capsule the last two mornings, and the panic attacks in the morning were greatly diminished. Very weird, since ginger is usually used for car sicknes, not panic or fear. So, I guess we might have a positive, not sure yet.

Eta: ginger:
http://www.herbwisdom.com/herb-ginger-root.html
Posted by: bianca

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 02/16/14 03:14 AM

Lisa I'm sorry the pred has not been the answer to anything. Really interesting about the ginger, could this mean the tremors are from nausea? hugging
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 02/16/14 11:31 AM

I looked and it's also an anti-inflammatory and anti-spasmodic (ceamping), so who the heck knows exactly what it is helping. Lots of tummy noses watery stools right now, hopefully that's from the chicken broth.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 02/16/14 05:28 PM

We went for a walk this morning, and Jazz was happy, and that was so nice to see. Because of her health, we really haven't been able to walk at all, the tremors have been so consistent. Yesterday someone at training saw her smiling, even though she had a rough morning there (was not a good training day, too many tremors and fear responses). BUT, today, there were lots of smiles on the walk. I just think she needs a lot more stress relief than she is getting.

I am working getting her stable, so that we can get her recovered a bit. Two meals with no tremors, but who knows if it will last. I actually think there are three things going on (which are not necessarily independent) - digestive issues which somehow involve her pancreas (long story, but has a similar pattern to Max), neurotransmitter/hormone problems, and some skeletal issues in her back and neck.

I have two more days to see - appt with the IMS on Tuesday late afternoon.
Posted by: bianca

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 02/17/14 03:19 AM

Keeping everything crossed hugging I do like reading that she was smiling today hugging
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 02/17/14 08:45 AM

That must be a pretty sight, Jazmine prancing and smiling at your side smile.

I hope you both get many more smiles.

You're monitoring a lot of body systems and all that thought must get you somewhere. crossedfingers

MJ
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 02/18/14 03:47 AM

When she is happy and prancing, it's a great sight and can't help but make a person smile fetch

She had a very good day today. I think I want to stay the course for a bit. I hope that the IMS can add some insight.

I went back to what worked, and tweeked it a bit. Weaning quickly off the pred, back to the flagyl (fear it long term though), she I still on amoxi. Before meals he is being given scullcap and ginger, anti-spasmodics, and baking soda after. With that, we have had 4 tremor-free meals, which is amazing. I try to support her gut with probiotics, apple pectin (prebiotic), and marshmallow. I want to use l-glutamine, but holding off until I surely have the tremors under control

There are small tremors, but they don't materialize into more. She is still wary of eating, that it will induce the tremors, which I really sad.

ETA: Oh, forgot to add, for the fear and anxiety,I'm also trying some GABA (given to her by one of her vets long ago), and l-theanine (GABA precurser, guess it doesn't pas the blood brain barrier well). If I can get her tremor free for awhile, then I can start challenging by withdrawing supplements, but I need to provide her some comfort and relief right now.
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 02/18/14 11:02 AM

Have you tried taking her for walks every day, regardless? I know that always helps me, no matter how poorly I feel. And I walked my dogs, no matter how sick they were, because it really helped their spirit. It would also be helpful for you because I'm sure you are stressed out and she is feeling that.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 02/18/14 01:50 PM

You are absolutely right Ruth. It's been cold, and that seems to make the tremors worse, but that is just an excuse. I need to make the effort for the both of us.

So, I just now went on the meetup.com site, and reserved for some of the upcoming dog hikes that are coming up. We both need something like that. I hope that we won't have to cancel, time is such a precious commodity right now, but I really also need to make some lifestyle changes. So stressed, and I know that that's not good for Jazz either. I just need to get her stamina up.

I've been wondering this morning if the tremors aren't really cramping....all sorts of cramping disorders in small terriers frown
Posted by: anniej

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 02/18/14 02:24 PM

Lisa I have just caught up with what is happening with Jazz - do contact me if you need some homeopathic help. Don't miss the meet-up hike if you can it will do you both good:) I know how stressful life can get when you are trying to figure out what you need to do to keep your dog alive. Can I recommend that you keep a diary - ( I know one more thing to do!) - record what medication/therepy you are using and any noticeable changes. When you are dealing with long-term illness then it really helps to have a written record to see what is working and what isn't. With Chamsa I had months where I felt I was going round in circles and the record I kept really helped me to work out what was happening.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 02/19/14 02:58 AM

Thank you annie!! I really do want to follow up, sorry there was so much for you to read! I am not super diligent with it, but I do have a diary. I have been trying to be better about keeping it updated.

====

We had an appt with the IMS today. As before, he thinks this is multifunctional, there are several things going on. The bad news is that he thinks we haven't seen the brunt of "it" yet, that there are some serious things lurking frown He does hope however, with some preventive measures, we can either avoid that, or diminish its impact...

We're disappointed all around that the pred was not helpful. He did say that we might not have had a high enough dose to have the desired impact, and some of the things I thought the pred was making worse may have been side effects resulting in other things, rather than the pred making one of her conditions worse. Subtle I think. In the last week and a half, she lost a kg because of not eating from the pred (her ribs can be seen more easily at most angles), and there is noticeable loss of muscle mass. He gave me instructions how to finish weaning her off.

He isn't very familiar with the herb (American) scullcap, so didn't have a comment about that specifically. He is more familiar with ginger, and has had some clients managed with it long term, so that may be promising. He thought it's entirely realistic that this is an issue of cramping, to some degree at least. He said that the baking soda is fine, and as long as I don't overdo it, will not hurt. It points more to a stomach issue/gastritis, than the lower colon issues where he biopsied and found inflammation previously. He's nervous about using acid inhibitor drugs in her because of other effects they could have and is fine with sticking with the baking soda for now.

I have not been successful in adding vegetables, she doesn't like them, doesn't like anything but meat. BUT, she seems to love Honest Kitchen's Preference, which is their veggie base, and I've been adding that to meals.

I would like to have some xrays done, particularly of the neck area, to look for anything obvious, because I have found some weird reactions in that area at times and there is obvious discomfort. He thinks that's reasonable, but we don't want to do any anesthesia procedures right now and mess her up. The next logical test is an endoscopy (just paid off Care Credit from her last major procedure frown ), but she would need to be off pred for awhile, and if that is done, that is the logical time to do the xrays, to minimize any procedures done on her. I had been thinking that we may end up having to do the endoscopy - hoping that I am wrong!

We talked about the value of an MRI (which I won't be able to afford on top of everything else). Frankly, I'm getting worried that she has some sort of serious issue, like this one: http://www.cavalierhealth.org/syringomyelia.htm , which occurs other breeds too. He didn't discourage this thought, though he said that, right now, other things seem more likely.

For now, we'll get her weaned off pred, see how the herbal, etc., protocol works longer term, increase the acupuncture, and give the body a chance to stabilize before we do anything else, as long she doesn't get worse. I'm cautiously optimistic about the new protocol, but I know not to get too excited about things too soon.

So, there we are. Tonight she was able to eat with no tremors, and even did a happy dinner dance before and after the meal, in a limited way. But that's progress. I hope that it can continue.
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 02/19/14 11:28 AM

This is really a day by day struggle. I'm so sorry that Jazz lost weight but glad to see that she has enjoyed other meals lately. It's quite impressive how you (and her IMS) really are conducting treatment trials and the real time analysis has to pay off sometime. I wish you didn't have to consider serious things like that awful condition in cavaliers but I guess when you don't know what you're dealing with you have to consider all kinds of things. Personally, I don't think Jazz could have that condition because she is too proportionate.

I do look forward to more happy dinner dances.

MJ
Posted by: Shepherds

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 02/19/14 04:35 PM

May you get many more happy dances...and although small changes a positive that some meals have been tremor free.

I don't know why, but I keep coming back to the thought of esophageal / stomach issues where the tremors are pain related to spasms or as you say cramping.

Big hugging to you and Jazz, I hope stress levels reduce for you soon.
Posted by: SeanRescueMom

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 02/19/14 08:43 PM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
For now, we'll get her weaned off pred, see how the herbal, etc., protocol works longer term, increase the acupuncture, and give the body a chance to stabilize before we do anything else, as long she doesn't get worse.


Sounds like a good plan to me. thumbup Keep those happy dinner dances coming too. hug
Posted by: bianca

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 02/20/14 01:23 AM

A happy dinner dance sounds wonderful and keeping all paws crossed that we have that as a regular occurrence. Lisa, I know I've said it before but Jazzy is just the luckiest girl to have you hugging hugging
Posted by: anniej

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 02/20/14 02:58 PM

Keeping my fingers crossed for you that things will start improving and Jazz will turn the corner into good health soon.
Posted by: LJsMom

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 02/20/14 04:34 PM

It warms my heart to think of Jazz doing a happy dance for her dinner!
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 02/21/14 02:06 AM

Yes! absolutely, the happy dancing is so nice to see, what a relief.

Today she was "off" her food again, but no outright tremors. Bad anxiety in the car, but it was also a pred day. CANNOT WAIT for that stuff to be done.



Originally Posted By: Mary Jane
.... I wish you didn't have to consider serious things like that awful condition in cavaliers but I guess when you don't know what you're dealing with you have to consider all kinds of things. Personally, I don't think Jazz could have that condition because she is too proportionate....

I have thought the same thing about the proportionality. She doesn't have that "domed head" that the Chis and Cavaliers have - I had thought that would rule out any of those weird issues. But I'm still getting worried frown


Originally Posted By: Shepherds

I don't know why, but I keep coming back to the thought of esophageal / stomach issues where the tremors are pain related to spasms or as you say cramping.

I think that this is not unreasonable. My mom has something called Barrett's esophagus. The barriers between the small intestine and the stomach, and the stomach and the esophagus don't work, so there is small intestinal growth that has grown into her stomach and stomach stuff that has grown into her esophagus. Normally I would use DGL licorice, which she does not do well on (licorice allergy related to peanut allergy?), maybe glutamine (may be excitational and increase anxiety). I wonder if she has something like a haital hernia, she's already had two hernias.

It's also true that she has some spinal and neck issues. It's just not clear what is affecting what. Acupuncturing the neck seizure points stopping the tremors for a day really throws a bit of a monkey wrench into things.

I really want to know where her microchip is - it's bugging me thinking that it may have moved into a really weird position. But that's just a long shot though.
Posted by: bianca

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 02/21/14 03:08 AM

If and when she has an xray, the microchip would show? hugging hugging
Posted by: Schnickle Fritz

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 02/21/14 11:22 AM

why cant you find the chip??
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 02/22/14 12:06 PM

Oh, it's not that we can't find it, we just haven't looked for it yet. I'd like to know where it is. The scanner picks it up if you put it anywhere close, so it can't pinpoint location. There are anectodal stories of those things moving and creating big problems, so I think the xray makes sense for that too.
Posted by: Schnickle Fritz

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 02/24/14 08:38 PM

this is true... my traiers as always angry (when we "practice" chiecking in on the field with the scanner) that the breeder put it so close to his shoulder blade. they knew a woman whose dog 's chip migrated under the blade and it was quite painful to the touch. they thought it had had arthritis .....
Posted by: Schnickle Fritz

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 02/24/14 11:04 PM

ummm.... should say "my trainers are always angry"...
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 03/02/14 12:03 AM

I really want to know where that chip is, though I know it's a reach.

I may have the major tremors under control, to some degree. She still will have flares at weird times, and is still not enthusiastic about eating, and seems to be losing more muscle, even though she is off the pred. I am not around her during the day, and sometimes at night she jumps off the bed to sleep in the bathroom(?), so I suspect that there are things going on at other times.

When I weaned her off the pred, things did get a little worse, the herbals and bicarb didn't seem to control things as well as they were. I don't know if the the worsening is from an adverse effect from the pred, or if it was actually helping something. I've tried to be more consistent with gut support, and I did add back the st john's wort for the anxiety and stress, and I also added acetyl-l-carnitine and also phosphatidylserine. I just threw almost everything at her that made sense to me.

It hasn't been very long with this new protocol, and I suspect that I am giving her too much of something, but we have avoided a big tremor incident, including while eating. She still doesn't eat much, usually walks away before the meal is done, but we are doing better than before, where I had to force feed her every meal frown I also have her down to one medicine, the amoxicillin, which hasn't been the case in almost a year I think. Last march was when she had the remnant tissue removed from her vagina and the clostridium was found.

So, I guess this coming week is the big test, to see if this protocol will last.
Posted by: bianca

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 03/02/14 03:03 AM

I wish I had something to offer Lisa but instead a gentle hugging for both you and your sweet girl hugging
Posted by: JakodaCD OA

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 03/02/14 08:12 AM

not much to offer either:( I did want to say, my aussie decided she didnt like her food a few weeks ago, as I did with Jag, I went and bought anything and everything, to try and get her to eat. The "bingo" moment was Fresh Pet raw turkey/chicken. Comes in a tube , may not be the 'best', but she wolfs down her meals and is always looking for more..

We have BJ's wholesale club here, it's 11.99 for 6lbs, Petco/some walmarts carry it, but it is 5.00 MORE..It has the consistency of bologna
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 03/02/14 04:29 PM

I'm glad that the Fresh Pet worked for you guys! This, unfortunately, was one of the first things I tried way back when. I have a list of "interesting" things that I rotate through, and that seems to keep her interested, enough. She really likes egg yolks, does not like the whites. She is so funny. This morning she had an egg yolk with 1/2 of the whites, and some apple, all minced together. I really need to cook some stuff today - I'm out of anything prepared. I hate it when that happens.

I am going to ask the IMS if the end of the month is a long enough wait off the pred to go in and do the endoscopy (and also xrays). I have spring break, so the timing would work. I really want those xrays. Today was a bad day for the tremors - she ran a lot yesterday, first time in a long time. I don't know if it's related. Gave her a tramadol this morning and she's resting now.
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 03/02/14 04:52 PM

Lisa,

Thanks for your detailed posts. I'm learning a lot about how one really conducts clinical research, except I can't stand it that Jazz is the research subject.

I hope that you can get the endoscopy and Xrays done when the timing is good-well basically I hope you can get the images as soon as possible. Will they take tissue samples when they are doing the endoscopy?

MJ
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 03/02/14 05:25 PM

Ah MJ, you are the real researcher here!!! But I am very fortunate that I have an IMS that has the same philosophy that I do about a lot of this stuff, including the testing - using them when necessary, not using them when the results won't tell us enough or change the actual outcome. Sometimes I wish he'd offer more suggestions, but I think he's really cautious with Jazz.

Yes, he will take tissue samples during the endoscopy. I guess that's why he's waiting long enough after the pred, there will be too much suppression for inflammatory cells to show up if she's tested too soon. To wean her off the pred, I did use some flagyl, but that with the amoxi is the treatment for H. pylori, so I'm hoping that I can keep her off the flagyl from now on too, in case that's an issue, so we get the biggest bang for our buck.

There's a big part of me that wants to go in and remove the chip, regardless of where it is. I am one of those people that prefers to sit in my office with the lights off, rather than have the fluorescent lights on. I just feel better. I can imagine an individual having a perpetual annoying feeling having a signal sent out from their neck at all times...

I try not to think about the way Jazz should be leading her life, instead of all this medical crap frown
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 03/04/14 06:18 PM

Vet today said that she doen't think that the chip emit stuff, but are static, and it's the reader that does the emiting. That would make ense, and if that's true, makes me feel better.

Over the last week, jazz has experienced more distress at daycare, vocalizing in her "room" (very large kennel), when they have time outs during the day. Yeterday it escalated to practically screaming frown this increased anxiety would seem to increased tremors these last several days, which may be related to elimination of the flagyl, ince it seems to be a pattern. Need to address this asap - getting booted from daycare is not an option.

It seems like she also has an ear infection in her left ear - the outer area is beet red and inflamed, canal not so bad, lots of staph bacteria found. Since it appears to have started in the outer area instead of the canal, vet is thinking bacteria primarily introduced by scratching. He thought a bug bite, but it might have been from the reaction to trying a kibble she didn't do well on, or a neck issue. Hoping a topical will be enough to kick it.
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 03/04/14 09:58 PM

Can there be a honeymoon period in a new setting like the daycare? That view doesn't suggest any options to me for making Jazz more comfortable there, so let's skip it. Why does it have to be so hard?

I'm babbling again. Do you want to restore the flagyl?
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 03/04/14 10:18 PM

Yeah, it is hard. Some directions of thought are really difficult to think about. I've been discouraged and sad.

I think I need to restore the flagyl, see if the anxiety and everything else gets better again. If it does, at least we'll know one thing for sure. Not that we know what it means, but it's something.
Posted by: bianca

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 03/05/14 03:01 AM

Oh Lisa and Jazzy hugging It just shouldn't be this hard for either of you hugging hugging
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 03/05/14 10:34 AM

Her ear is better, which is a huge relief.

Can benadryl help with anxiety? That seems to help the ear, but might also have taken some edge off the morning anxiety. Might just be a fluke. I did put her back on the flagyl, and stopp a few supplements. Yesterday her anxiety when I went to take a shower was sky high, and I thought she was long past that shower thing.

I have my next clinical trial to run by the IMS if this works.

Forgot to mention, I think, that I have an appt with a new holistic vet. I need a new regular vet ans this one is full service. I had to wait a month for jazz's last acupuncture because an appt got cancelled with my regular vet (she is only in twice a month), and that I just not going to work right now when things are a bit critical.
Posted by: Woodreb

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 03/05/14 10:40 AM

Benadryl makes me a bit sleepy. So it might make her a little more relaxed.
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 03/05/14 10:42 AM

Originally Posted By: Woodreb
Benadryl makes me a bit sleepy. So it might make her a little more relaxed.


Actually I've been taking Benadryl for years to help me sleep, it's marketed and packaged as a 'sleep-aid' independently of the anti-histamine activity.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 03/08/14 03:10 PM

Jazz is really happy this morning laugh

That is all smile
Posted by: TimberWolf

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 03/08/14 03:35 PM

groovy That's all.
Posted by: PositiveDog

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 03/08/14 03:48 PM

And that's enough! party
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 03/08/14 04:54 PM

happyboogie
Posted by: bianca

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 03/09/14 03:01 AM

That is wonderful!
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 03/09/14 03:04 AM

Yes, yay, thank you for enjoying that with me.

She had one really good day, and I'm just going to enjoy that for now!

Added to that, not one visible tremor. She might have had more subtle ones, but nothing I could feel or see.

Will check in later with a follow up, we'll see if this was a fluke.
Posted by: bianca

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 03/09/14 06:48 AM

Praying for no fluke and the start of a healthy, happy Jazzy hugging
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 03/09/14 09:33 PM

A small tremor this morning, but overall an okay day. She was awfully tired about 1/4 of the way into our walk. I worry about the fatigue.
Posted by: bianca

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 03/10/14 05:07 AM

frown hugging
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 03/10/14 08:47 AM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
.... I worry about the fatigue.


Can we try benign sources of fatigue like prednisone withdrawal or undernourishment? Whatever is the cause I hope she feels better today.

MJ
Posted by: bianca

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 03/20/14 03:08 AM

Hi Lisa, just checking how you, Jazzy and your parents are going? hugging
Posted by: Mary Jane

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 03/20/14 11:39 AM

Bianca's right; if you have the time it would be good to hear how your parents are faring at home and Jazz' tremors and fatigue and appetite and daycare.

(when you have time).

MJ
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 03/21/14 01:37 AM

This time change just wiped me out, been running behind. I'm just trying to get through to the end of week, then I've got Spring break - yay!!

Jazz is scheduled for her endoscopy and xrays on Tuesday. I hope that we get some answers. I can get her stable for a bit, then everything goes to heck, so we are moving forward I guess. I hope.

Found a new acu vet, will update more later, but we have been busy. Looking forward to sleeping a lot over the break.

And I can't believe I neglected to thank you guys for checking up on us. She's been having quite a few ups and downs.
Posted by: bianca

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 03/21/14 02:54 AM

hugging Lisa wishing you some rest and relaxation soon hugging
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, still - 03/22/14 04:25 AM

Thanks bianca, we plan on it!

I started a new thread, just to get a fresh start, so I'll lock this one.

http://germanshepherdhome.net/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/311384/Jazzy_Jazz_Jazmine,_It's_Sprin