Lepto vaccine and chipmunks

Posted by: JeanKBBMMMAAN

Lepto vaccine and chipmunks - 05/23/10 06:34 PM

Ugh. I've never seen so many chipmunks as this year. However we are minus 3 frown thanks to Mario. So I just hit the google after #3 (Mario is way faster than I ever would have imagined but drops them immediately-and too late) and read this: http://whitneycatcare.com/parasites/lepto.html

I have been declining the yearly lepto on everyone but may consider it. For him? For the rest of them?

Luckily his yearly is on Wednesday so I can talk to his vet too but thought I would ask here.

We just finished working on a leave it review and he did well with stationary tasty items. Hoping that it will work on fun running tiny toys and that I am fast enough to see it. He may have to potty and play alone for a while if I can't focus on him alone.

Thanks for any input. I am leaning towards lepto for him and maybe for his co-conspirator, Ilsa... Though everyone sniffs where the chipmunks expire. Jeeeez!
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Lepto vaccine and chipmunks - 05/23/10 06:49 PM

Jean, is there a question in there somewhere?

Problem with the lepto shots is that they don't last very long, and very often don't contain the actual strains of lepto that are found in your area. Every dog I've met that has lepto, has been vaccinated. (I'm sure unvax'ed dogs get it, just an observation on frequency of vax'ed dogs getting lepto.)
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: Lepto vaccine and chipmunks - 05/23/10 07:11 PM

The dog across the street got lepto and also had been vaccinated for it.

It is prevalent around here but I've declined it for all of my dogs. My vet says it covers more strains now and has less risk of side effects, for what that's worth.

I can't believe Mario isn't afraid of chipmunks! poke
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Lepto vaccine and chipmunks - 05/23/10 07:42 PM

They keep increasing the number of strains in the vax, is it 8 that some carry, others 4 or 6? I think there are about a gazillion lepto strains.
Posted by: Braverhund

Re: Lepto vaccine and chipmunks - 05/23/10 08:33 PM

Jean, not sure I can post here what I found on another forum, but if you Google chipmunks and Lepto, a BC forum will pop up. The consensus seems to be that lepto is rarely seen, the shots don't always last even a full year, and dogs sometimes get quite ill from the shots themselves. It's not an easy decision-- but I perhaps might not do the lepto for the aforementioned reasons. Just some thoughts to consider.. or not. smile
Posted by: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: Lepto vaccine and chipmunks - 05/23/10 08:57 PM

I think this link is pretty informative.

http://www.2ndchance.info/leptospirosis.htm
Posted by: JeanKBBMMMAAN

Re: Lepto vaccine and chipmunks - 05/24/10 10:52 PM

That is a good link Val.

http://www.vet.uga.edu/vpp/CLERK/noel/ is another one I was looking at.

Ruth - did that dog die?

Patty - Lepto is actually fairly common around here. frown

There are 8 I believe strains that can impact dogs out of the couple hundred that exist, and the new lepto vaccine covers ??? of them - not sure - in reading the link I posted and Val's...don't know if the answer is in there. And supposedly these new vacs are not as tough like has been said.

This is a tough one! Don't want to make a new problem, but the other thing is if a dog does get lepto it is zoonotic and shed in their urine for a couple of months so all the other dogs would be at risk...

Huh. This is not a very savvy family of chipmunks. I have not had any in my yard for a very long time and this year...

Also had a poached toad in the outside water bowl today. frown I screamed so loudly I scared Rocco, and the neighbors...

Yes, Mario is NOT afraid of them! Shocking! I think he thinks they are like toys. And Ilsa is the mastermind...setting him up to get them so he gets the demon voice leave it, and she sits wagging...

Thank you - I am still thinking!
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: Lepto vaccine and chipmunks - 05/24/10 11:07 PM

There have been a lot of dogs in my neighborhood with lepto but I still opted out. We have a lot of rats around here. sick

The dog across the street did die but that's because they did not realize she was really sick until she was really, really sick and then decided not to treat her because they couldn't afford it. That was Kai's best friend Cocoa, the kelpie mix. frown They adopted another dog a few weeks later and she has been fine.
Posted by: DancingCavy

Re: Lepto vaccine and chipmunks - 05/24/10 11:30 PM

I fear the vaccine for Lepto more than the disease itself. Saw too many dogs have bad reactions to it when I worked at the vet's office. When I worked there (going on 4 years ago or so), there was the 4 serovar vaccine. Only covered 4 strains.

I have never vaxed Risa for Lepto (the shelter did before I got her). We don't generally tromp through the woods but I have never really been concerned about it. And she's been through parts of MT, CT, PA, and NY.

But you ultimately have to do what makes you feel comfortable. There are risks involved no matter which way you go.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Lepto vaccine and chipmunks - 05/25/10 12:47 AM

Originally Posted By: BowWowMeow
The dog across the street did die but that's because they did not realize she was really sick until she was really, really sick and then decided not to treat her because they couldn't afford it.


That's sad, the dog must have been in kidney failure by then frown If caught early, doxy should get at it.
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: Lepto vaccine and chipmunks - 05/25/10 02:17 AM

Her liver and kidneys were failing. Apparently they get sick very quickly with lepto-- I had the impression that they thought she was a little under the weather and then she was dying. It was really sad. She was a nice dog and they are nice people, just don't have much money.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Lepto vaccine and chipmunks - 05/25/10 05:41 AM

frown
Posted by: JeanKBBMMMAAN

Re: Lepto vaccine and chipmunks - 05/25/10 11:42 AM

Oh geez. frown That is FAST.

And it sounds like lepto survivors sometimes have long-term impacts?
Posted by: LifeAsMe

Re: Lepto vaccine and chipmunks - 05/25/10 11:48 AM

My understanding of Lepto is that it is alot like Lyme's disease in that it's not a bacteria but a spore and it never really leaves your body.
Posted by: Tara

Re: Lepto vaccine and chipmunks - 05/25/10 12:43 PM

I'm hoping Lisa will come along and augment and correct me if I'm wrong, but the similarity between Lyme and Lepto is that they're both spirochetes, which is a classification of the shape of the bacteria. I think that what your thinking of is the cyst that spirochetes can form.

Lisa, are cysts metabolically active? If not, I guess that's why doxycycline wouldn't be able to completely rid the body of the cysts since it targets protein synthesis.

Sorry to get off topic...
Posted by: LifeAsMe

Re: Lepto vaccine and chipmunks - 05/25/10 12:47 PM

spirochetes...that's it! I couldn't remember what they were called. From what I was told, and read, spirochetes are not bacteria. It's a whole different thing than viruses and bacteria.

My BIL has Lyme's disease and my understanding is you never truly get rid of it. The vet told me that Lepto was similar to Lyme's. Maybe I just assumed that you never get rid of Lepto as well.
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: Lepto vaccine and chipmunks - 05/25/10 01:03 PM

I forgot to say that in the case of the dog across the street she evidently ATE a dead rat and that's how she got the disease so she had pretty major exposure. That's why they didn't realize she was had lepto--they assumed she wasn't feeling well because of eating the rat. frown

I think if it's caught early it's easy to treat but because it progresses quickly it is often not caught until the dog is in kidney and liver failure and then it's much more difficult to treat.

I've been reading some articles about it on line and there are quite a few comments from people whose dogs have gotten lepto and also had the vaccine. It looks like you need to vaccinate twice a year and even then many of the articles say that your dog may still come down with a "milder" case of lepto. I also keep reading that small dogs may have vaccine reactions. If you choose to vaccinate you should DEFINITELY do it separately from other vaccines.

Based on all of this info, the reason I decided not to vaccinate is because I'm not convinced the vaccine works. I am very familiar with the symptoms though and will be rushing straight to the vet if I see any in Rafi!
Posted by: Barb E

Re: Lepto vaccine and chipmunks - 05/25/10 01:21 PM

Perhaps the symptoms of diseases like Lepto should be a sticky
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Lepto vaccine and chipmunks - 05/25/10 07:22 PM

I think that the symptoms are not very specific.

I ran into someone at the store awhile back whose dog was sick with lepto. I think you just have to be lucky to have a vet that will test for it. Low level lepto and low level lyme titers will cross-react too, which can be more confusing. Good thing is that doxycycline will treat both.
Posted by: JeanKBBMMMAAN

Re: Lepto vaccine and chipmunks - 05/26/10 09:43 PM

I always ask if it's Lepto whenever anyone's sick - I try to keep the symptoms in mind - hoping they would show:
http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=2+1556&aid=454
http://www.pets.ca/articles/article-dog_leptospirosis.htm

Mario had his vet appointment today and he is still lepto vaccine free for now. If he ever were to start eating what he's caught, then we will rethink it. sick

He did really well too! He's shy but he was a lot like he is at home, which is huge, and his vet noticed that he was more confident, so that's neat. Mario loves his vet and she is so good with him. Mariele was with him, and apparently it's like 2 negatives making a positive because she was also seeking attention. smile

Glad we could have this lepto talk. It's pretty scary stuff.
Posted by: Braverhund

Re: Lepto vaccine and chipmunks - 05/26/10 10:33 PM

Yay yay and YAY for Brave Mario the handsome sweetiegoof, and his cohort, Miss Mariele the adorable caramel-creme candy babygrrrrlie! I bet the vets were double-charmed!

Jean, thanks for bringing this up and the reminder about symptoms. I'm glad Mariodie Pupadupolis is doing so well! smile
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Lepto vaccine and chipmunks - 05/27/10 12:48 AM

Lepto is scary. The world out there is scary in lots of different ways.

A great argument for people living with their dogs (as oppopsed to having a dog for decoration like my neighbors)and knowing them and their behaviours..and on top of that regular bloodwork.

Sounds like a good vet visit all around, that's a wonderful positive smile