white bump on tongue?

Posted by: Sage's mom

white bump on tongue? - 06/02/10 09:13 PM

I will be taking him to the vet tomorrow but do you guys have any ideas at what this could be?



Posted by: GSDTrain

Re: white bump on tongue? - 06/02/10 09:16 PM

how weird...did he bite his tongue maybe when he was playing?

let us know how the visit goes
Posted by: Sage's mom

Re: white bump on tongue? - 06/02/10 09:32 PM

At first I thought he bit his tongue playing frisbee or something, but this spot has been there for about a week now. I don't think its gotten any bigger or smaller. It felt hard when I touched it and it didn't seem to hurt him. He's been eating normal and drinking normal. Playing normal. He doesn't act like it bothers him at all. He still wants to catch things, chew, give kisses...acting normal. Poop looks normal too.
Posted by: Crooked Creek

Re: white bump on tongue? - 06/02/10 10:22 PM

http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_canine_viral_papillomas.html

Just a thought
Posted by: Sage's mom

Re: white bump on tongue? - 06/02/10 11:40 PM

thanks for the link.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: white bump on tongue? - 06/03/10 12:37 AM

Originally Posted By: Crooked Creek


That's what I was going to say too!
Posted by: mjbgsd

Re: white bump on tongue? - 06/03/10 01:49 AM

The picture of the human finger with that on... *shivers*
Posted by: Remo

Re: white bump on tongue? - 06/03/10 07:45 AM

Remo went through a bout of those warts when he was a little guy. His were much bigger - they were about the size of a Tic-Tac mint. They went away and never bothered him again.

As gross as it seems, I hope that is what is wrong with your pup since it is not a serious condition.
Posted by: Sage's mom

Re: white bump on tongue? - 06/03/10 11:33 PM

we went to the vet
it's papillomas, thanks for the info smile
Posted by: Sage's mom

need help with papillomas - 06/28/10 07:26 PM

A few more bumps are noticeable now. 2 more on his tongue both very small and one on his lower lip that is bigger but not the size of the original one.

The vet called for a check up 2 weeks after our visit and we still only had the one wart. They said if it gets bad they will remove them surgically. What I'm finding online says that they usually go away on their own in about 2-3 months but surgery may be required if they cause pain or make eating difficult. I'm worried that over a month has gone by and now there are 3 new ones that popped up.

Is there any supplement or anything I can give him to help get rid of these?
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: need help with papillomas - 06/28/10 08:34 PM

Regular Moducare is supposed to be good for viral issues, and so is vitamin C, which might be the easiest?
Posted by: Mandalay

Re: need help with papillomas - 06/28/10 08:49 PM

Poor thing. Mandi had one a few months back on the tip of her nose. I thought it would never go away.
Posted by: Sage's mom

Re: need help with papillomas - 06/28/10 09:13 PM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
Regular Moducare is supposed to be good for viral issues, and so is vitamin C, which might be the easiest?



what would you recommend and how much daily?

whatever would work best is what I want not what is easiest

He's still eating and acting fine now but if these new ones on his tongue get the size of the original one I can't imagine him still feeling good.
Posted by: Jason L

Re: need help with papillomas - 06/28/10 09:45 PM

Obie had one on his lips when he was around 7 months old. We added 1000mg of vitamin C to his diet during the time. The puppy wart finally went away when he was 10 months old. One day he woke up and it was pretty much gone.
Posted by: Sage's mom

Re: need help with papillomas - 06/28/10 10:26 PM

thanks for that info Jason smile
Posted by: Sage's mom

papillomas - more questions - vitamin c - 06/29/10 09:40 PM

This morning I checked his mouth and there are 2 new spots on his tongue and the previous ones have gotten slightly bigger. frown

Should I be giving 250mg twice a day or 500mg twice a day? Something else?

Also, what brand/type of Vitamin C? I'm learning that there are 3 different types (ascorbic acid, dehydroascorbic acid, and sodium ascorbate)
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: papillomas - more questions - vitamin c - 06/29/10 09:59 PM

EsterC is readily available and a good type to use, it can be given in tablets, capsules, or powder. I use sodium ascorbate here because Max tolerates that the best. Here's a recent thread with a discussion on the versions of C: http://www.germanshepherdhome.net/forum/....html#Post55988 I would give the 500mg twice a day. If that's tolerated, you can increase it to 1000mg twice a day.

I found this reference to the Balch and Balch book, Prescription for Natural Healing (doses for adult humans):

Quote:
...SUMMARY from the entry on 'Warts' in the book Prescription for Nutritional Healing (3rd Edition). The authors are Phyllis A. Balch, CNC and James F. Balch, MD. I have not typed it out word for word.

* Warts are caused by the human papilloma virus (HPV)

* The most important supplements are Vit. B complex for normal cell multiplication, and Vit. C with bioflavonoids for its antiviral activity. Suggested dosage: 50mg of each major B vitamin 3 x daily, and 4000-10,000 mg daily of vit. C.

OTHER IMPORTANT SUPPLEMENTS ARE AS FOLLOWS

* L-Cysteine. 500 mg twice daily.

*Methylsulfonyl-methane (MSM). Take as directed on the label.

* Vitamin A with mixed carotenoids including natural beta-carotene.

* Vitamin E. 400-800 IU daily. You can also cut open the Vit. E capsules and apply them to the wart daily.

* Zinc. 50-80 mg daily.

LESS IMPORTANT, BUT STILL HELPFUL

* Multivitamin and mineral complex * Reishi or shiitake extract

HERBS

* Aloe vera gel, myrhh; oils of clove, lemongrass, peppermint, tea tree or wintergreen.

* Tinctures of black walnut, chickweed, goldenseal and pau d'arco used externally on the warts.

* Aloe vera gel dabbed on the wart two or three times daily.

* Astralagus

* Black walnut, esp. for warts in the mouth and throat.

WAYS TO REMOVE WARTS

* Apply crushed garlic and cover with bandage for 24 hours. Blisters will form, and it will fall off in about a week.

* Eat more foods with sulfur-containing amino acids: asparagus, citrus fruits, eggs, garlic, onions.

* Salicylic acid (eg aspirin).


from this thread: http://www.prohealth.com/me-cfs/blog/boardDetail.cfm?id=103326 (btw, great book, I have it on my shelf)

Interesting about the vitamin B, and it looks like the sulfur in the MSM is what works on the warts. So if the vitamin C doesn't start turning things around quickly, I would add a multivitamin, and either a B-50 or MSM or both.
Posted by: Sage's mom

Re: papillomas - more questions - vitamin c - 06/29/10 10:16 PM

thanks again Lisa!

I was wondering if Ester-C would be good.

I will also try to get a picture up tomorrow of it
Posted by: Sage's mom

papillomas pictures - 06/30/10 03:13 PM

frown more are visible now







today I noticed something at the back of his throat



Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: papillomas pictures - 06/30/10 03:28 PM

ewwww, kinda gross!

Yep, get his immune system up and running. I think it takes a couple of months for them to fall off? But I bet you'll know if the supplements are working because they should slow in forming, stop forming completely, and lastly start falling off? That's a guess, but I think it sounds right???
Posted by: Jason L

Re: papillomas pictures - 06/30/10 03:34 PM

Yes, it will take a couple of months. Other than adding a few things to straighten the immune system, I think there is not much you can do but wait. Ike is going through something similar with puppy mange. The body just needs to time to right itself, I think.
Posted by: Sage's mom

Re: papillomas pictures - 06/30/10 03:37 PM

it is gross!

Lisa, thats what everything I'm reading says. They will just fall off.

I started him on 500mg of Ester-C this morning crossedfingers
Posted by: Sage's mom

Re: papillomas pictures - 06/30/10 03:43 PM

thanks jason
Posted by: Sage's mom

Re: papillomas pictures - 07/14/10 07:21 PM

happyboogie the biggest one on his tongue (1st one that appeared) fell off and it looks like the rest of the warts are smaller now or maybe some fell off I couldn't get a good look. His tongue almost looks normal smile

Should I keep him on the Ester C after they clear up as a regular supplement?
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: papillomas pictures - 07/14/10 08:19 PM

That's fantastic news! I'm so happy to hear this smile

I would maintain the vit C long term, it's good in general, and I suspect that Sage in particular could use the added support.

Great news!
Posted by: Sage's mom

Re: papillomas pictures - 07/14/10 08:42 PM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
I would maintain the vit C long term, it's good in general, and I suspect that Sage in particular could use the added support.


Thats what I thought too but didn't know if 2000mg of Ester C a day was safe for long term use. Also, I wonder if he does have an issue with his immune system how will I know if I'm always giving a supplement?
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: papillomas pictures - 07/14/10 08:56 PM

Oh, I wasn't even thinking about dosage.

I wouldn't drop below 1,000 mg per day for maintenance, and I would stay at 2,000 for quite a bit longer if you do decide to decrease it. I'm not sure there is a "right" answer. I'll be interested to hear what others think on this!
Posted by: Sage's mom

Re: ester c dosage?? - 07/14/10 09:15 PM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
Oh, I wasn't even thinking about dosage.

I wouldn't drop below 1,000 mg per day for maintenance, and I would stay at 2,000 for quite a bit longer if you do decide to decrease it. I'm not sure there is a "right" answer. I'll be interested to hear what others think on this!


I was thinking of keeping him on 2000mg for 1-2 months after all the warts are gone and then doing 1000mg a day. If its safe to stay at 2000mg though I may do that but I don't want to over supplement if thats possible.
Posted by: Sage's mom

constipation? - 07/20/10 06:50 PM

Can Ester-C cause constipation?

Last night Sage's poop was tiny little balls still firm but not his normal poop

This afternoon before I left for work it was the same thing only he seemed to have a difficult time going and even whined once.

I didn't give him any Ester-C today. Should I cut back on the doseage or wait it out? Give him something to soften him up?
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: constipation? - 07/20/10 11:28 PM

I've only heard of it doing the opposite, but you never know. Significant increases in calcium, w/o an increase of magnesium might do that, but I don't see Ester C as a significant source of calcium.

You could always either stop or cut back and see if it resolves, then start and work up to a lower dose and see if that works??
Posted by: Jane Jean

Re: constipation? - 07/20/10 11:34 PM

I gave Karlo vitamin C(500mg) as a pup, then upped the dosage to 2000mg daily over a weeks time because he had Pano@10 mos, and his poo looked like a cement mixer after they leave...that hardened river of white.
I stopped immediately and it returned to normal. He was rawfed at the time, and digestion is pretty fast with that diet.
3k9mom(I think that is her username) said not to use EsterC for pups as the calcium levels is too high.
I always thought Ester C was just C with a "buffer" for the stomach.
Posted by: Sage's mom

Re: constipation? - 07/21/10 12:41 AM

I'm at work, got an update from my mom who stops by to let him out for an hour or two. She said he had the same pooping problems and that his poop was yellowish color. Said he was his typical energetic self and ate and drank fine.

What does yellow poop mean? I will check the poop when I get hom but I did ask yellow or light brown and she said yellow.
Posted by: BowWowMeow

Re: constipation? - 07/21/10 03:05 AM

Is it possible that he ate something? Constipation with pain in a puppy makes me think obstruction.

Hasn't he been on the high dose of C for 3 weeks now? C generally causes diarrhea if they have trouble tolerating it, not constipation and you see a problem right away. What does he eat? Can't remember if he's on raw...in which case I'd say it was too much bone.

Try giving him some pumpkin and yogurt to help with the constipation and keep a close eye on him to be sure he isn't obstructed. There is a poop stickie somewhere that tells you what color means what. I can't remember what yellow means.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: constipation? - 07/21/10 03:31 AM

Jane, Ester C is buffered by somehow binding it with calcium. I've been using sodium ascorbate which buffers it by binding it with sodium instead, which is the form that Belfield uses.

Interesting the experience you had.

I've been contemplating switching Indy to Ester C as her heart disease progresses - better be sure to decrease the rest of the calcium in her diet if I do that!

Sage's Mom, you can stop the Ester C for a few days and see if that resolves. Yellowish poo can signify a lack of bile or enzymes needed for digestion, but I bet it could be other things too.
Posted by: Sage's mom

Re: constipation? - 07/21/10 02:52 PM

Last nights poop was yellowish. His poop this morning was brown a little light, soft but still well formed and normal size.

Ruth- He eats kibble (Orijen) and gets knuckle bones. Lay off the bones? They are cut up and he usually gets one small piece a day. Never had an issue before.


Is there a difference between the dog Ester-C and human? Since I had to order the capsules I had bought the flavored kind for dogs. He started getting the human capsules on Friday after we used up all of the other kind.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: constipation? - 07/21/10 03:33 PM

I would have said that I would expect more of a reaction with the dog version, but I would have been wrong!
Posted by: Sage's mom

Re: constipation? - 08/06/10 05:44 PM

I'm terrible about updating threads frown sorry

All of the warts are gone happyboogie

I put him back on the Ester C and he's doing fine
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: constipation? - 08/06/10 09:47 PM

I love a happy ending laugh

Great news - you did a great job with him!
Posted by: Sage's mom

Re: white bump on tongue - 08/07/10 03:08 AM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
I love a happy ending laugh

Great news - you did a great job with him!


Thank you for all of your advice!!!
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: white bump on tongue - 08/07/10 03:18 AM

I'm just glad that it worked so well and so quickly thumbup