Dr. Becker and raw

Posted by: samralf

Dr. Becker and raw - 08/21/13 01:38 PM

I was just wondering if anyone here feeds their dog dr.beckers diet? I know a lot of people on here feed the prey model and I was wondering what y'all thought of dr.beckers opinion that it isn't healthy to just give your dog RMBs, MM, and OM. That you need to add supplements, vitamins and minerals, and fruit and vegetables or you will have irreversible damage. I have a new puppy that I was going to switch to a raw diet but she kind of made me nervous thinking that my pup would be getting a bad diet and will be a very unhealthy pup. What do you all think? Any comments would be much appreciated! smile
Posted by: FurKids

Re: Dr. Becker and raw - 08/21/13 02:34 PM

We've been feeding raw for about three years. Other than genetic based issues (bi-lateral hip displaysia & hypothyroidism) and one nasty b*^%# if a disease brought on by genetics triggered by vaccinations (currently dealing with SLO in our male) our dogs are *very* healthy. We've had vets get wide-eyed and drop their jaws when they open the dog's mouths for their annual teeth check and ask if we brush them because they are in such good shape. They are amazed at how clean their teeth are and that they've never had a dental and don't need one even at 6 and 7 years of age and probably never will.

When we fed other foods, tried about a dozen kinds of Grade A dog foods at Grade A prices LOL! Nissa got ear and urinary type infections 3-4x a year. Riley had episodes of vomiting for what seemed like no reason at all. He would just vomit once every 6 weeks or so almost like clockwork. Nissa used to eat poop constantly, Riley more than I like to think about.

Since raw there has not been one ear infection, not one urinary infection, no vomiting and no poop eating. Riley often would not eat dry food of any kind or he'd eat it a few times and then stop eating it. We also tried just as good a quality canned and dehydrated.

They do get Dasuquin with MSM for Riley's hips (he had FHO surgery on both) and we give it to Nissa to help ward of any arthritis she may get as she gets older. She was hip-tested and she doesn't have HD.

They occasionally get some cooked meat treats, Riley loves spinach, they both love a spoonful or two of fruit yogurt mixed with cottage cheese a few times a week and other occasional people food treats.

Raw works for us. So at our house, if it ain't broke we ain't gonna fix it smile
Posted by: lhczth

Re: Dr. Becker and raw - 08/21/13 03:06 PM

I am curious what irreversible damage she is talking about? I have weaned 6 litters and raised countless puppies on raw without feeding veggies/fruits and tons of supplements.
Posted by: Braverhund

Re: Dr. Becker and raw - 08/21/13 03:12 PM

Thank God for raw! Grimm had horrible chronic SIBO, a condition where the dog's own normal gut flora has an overgrowth. Raw was the solution! I do add fish oil and E, because the agri-farmed meats used today are all fed a heavy corn diet, and the omega 6 needs some omega 3 to balance things out to avoid much inflammation. Yogurt? Sometimes. Veggies? Eh, now and again. Mainly, it's MM, OM, and RMB! groovy
Posted by: samralf

Re: Dr. Becker and raw - 08/21/13 05:23 PM

Originally Posted By: lhczth
I am curious what irreversible damage she is talking about? I have weaned 6 litters and raised countless puppies on raw without feeding veggies/fruits and tons of supplements.



I glanced though her book real quick but she doesn't mention anything specific. She claims that giving a dog bones like a turkey neck can be dangerous if they don't crunch it up. I'll share some info from the book:

"A novice raw feeder doing Internet research will find many websites by those feeding nothing but chicken backs or leg quarters. Writers say that they have never had a problem with this very unbalanced diet. This may be true for their dogs, but we have seen problems, especially with young, growing dogs, and we wish to spare you the experience. The chart opposite shows the nutritional balance of such a diet. There is no iodine, and almost no vitamin D, two essential nutrients. Other minerals are short from 30-70%. 65% of the calories come from fat, as compared to about 45% in the ancestral diet."

"We find that the people feeding fresh food diets who drift the farthest from the balance of the ancestral diet are those who feed what is called "prey model". They are often feeding nothing but bony meats or chicken quarters. Because we feed only some parts of animals, other vital parts (spleen, pancreas, blood, brains, etc.) are missing. We need to make substitutions for the parts we are unable to get from the grocery store. This is done through adding fatty acids, minerals, and other nutrients. We are all for the prey model but this approach must include all the components that provide essential balance, and we just don't have some available - so we need to substitute not omit."

So her diet is muscle meat, bone meal, organ meat, fruits and veggies, krill oil, hemp oil when you feed beef, and flax oil when you feed chicken or turkey. You also need to add an egg four times a week and a can of sardines or salmon four times a week. You also have to make your own mineral mix of salt, iron, manganese, zinc, iodine, vitamin e, and taurine.
Posted by: samralf

Re: Dr. Becker and raw - 08/21/13 05:26 PM

Thanks everyone for your opinions! Y'all are making me feel better for the big switch. I am curious as to what y'all think about the info I posted above.
Posted by: Braverhund

Re: Dr. Becker and raw - 08/21/13 05:34 PM

Honestly, I'd just feed raw the very best that you can. Try to round out & balance the diet by adding some whole prey now and again. This means simply tossing in some sardines, canned mackerel, or some affordable frozen (defrosted) whole fish, guts 'n all.

A really neat source is Oma's Pride's website, where they will UPS you some bags of frozen sardines (small herrings!).

Try not to worry too much. Balance the raw diet-- but don't worry! It's not balance per each meal, it's balance over time. Kinda like how we feed our own human kids. They don't get eggs, salad, fish, fruits and whole grains at every meal-- we feed those things over the course of a week. So, the diet is balanced... over time. smile

For a lot of dogs, chicken quarters are basicly a complete meal. I've fed them almost exclusively for a short period of time, now and again, though I admit to also tossing my dog his fish oil caps, vitamin E, an occasional glob of yogurt, and an occasional hunk of fruit, veggie, whatever, whenever. Raw rocks!

PS-- Remember, too, when dogs get duck or turkey necks, they get the cartilage and good stuff in those necks besides just meat and bone. Chicken backs usually come with kidneys stuck to 'em, as do chicken quarters, most often. Just being mindful about what goodies are in the meal's ingredients makes you feel good about feeding these parts of the meal. Yeah! laugh
Posted by: samralf

Re: Dr. Becker and raw - 08/21/13 05:51 PM

Originally Posted By: Braverhund
Honestly, I'd just feed raw the very best that you can. Try to round out & balance the diet by adding some whole prey now and again. This means simply tossing in some sardines, canned mackerel, or some affordable frozen (defrosted) whole fish, guts 'n all.

A really neat source is Oma's Pride's website, where they will UPS you some bags of frozen sardines (small herrings!).

Try not to worry too much. Balance the raw diet-- but don't worry! It's not balance per each meal, it's balance over time. Kinda like how we feed our own human kids. They don't get eggs, salad, fish, fruits and whole grains at every meal-- we feed those things over the course of a week. So, the diet is balanced... over time. smile

For a lot of dogs, chicken quarters are basicly a complete meal. I've fed them almost exclusively for a short period of time, now and again, though I admit to also tossing my dog his fish oil caps, vitamin E, an occasional glob of yogurt, and an occasional hunk of fruit, veggie, whatever, whenever. Raw rocks!

PS-- Remember, too, when dogs get duck or turkey necks, they get the cartilage and good stuff in those necks besides just meat and bone. Chicken backs usually come with kidneys stuck to 'em, as do chicken quarters, most often. Just being mindful about what goodies are in the meal's ingredients makes you feel good about feeding these parts of the meal. Yeah! laugh


Thanks Patti! That makes me feel better. I'm kinda worried about how I can give my puppy a whole fish when he's just a tiny sheltie. His adult weight will be around 16-18#.
Posted by: Braverhund

Re: Dr. Becker and raw - 08/21/13 09:08 PM

I'm terrible at match. I'm sorry! But, whatever the formula for raw feeding puppies is based on the adult weight, there are teeny fishies to feed whole. wink Grimmi has enjoyed whole frozen smelt and capelin-- those are about as long as your hand. So easy and fun to feed! Russian groceries often have them, and I guess you could Google online to find a source, too. Just a thought!
Posted by: samralf

Re: Dr. Becker and raw - 08/21/13 11:58 PM

Originally Posted By: Braverhund
I'm terrible at match. I'm sorry! But, whatever the formula for raw feeding puppies is based on the adult weight, there are teeny fishies to feed whole. wink Grimmi has enjoyed whole frozen smelt and capelin-- those are about as long as your hand. So easy and fun to feed! Russian groceries often have them, and I guess you could Google online to find a source, too. Just a thought!


Thanks for the suggestions. I don't know why I was thinking all fishies are huge.
Posted by: FurKids

Re: Dr. Becker and raw - 08/22/13 12:25 AM

Sardines would work nicely for your sweetie. Be careful with canned mackerel, brine is very salty so look for canned in water or something like that.

Just to clarify, I know some do but we don't feed whole big chunks of animals that they have to rip meat off of.

We get our meat at the meat market and markdown meats at Walmart. Our dogs prefer it frozen. Giving my dog a frozen bone is scary to me so when I give them bone-in I nuke it on defrost just long enough that it's frozen but not rock hard frozen. We also feed a good variety, not just chicken quarters and turkey necks. We include things like liver, gizzards blah blah blah following the "formula" of averaging 80% muscle etc, 10% bone, 5% each organ and liver.

Our meat market has a lot of raw for dogs and they are expanding this due to popularity. I order heart meat ($1.49lb) in like 20-25lb quantities (according to available freezer space). They cut it up for me in 1" slabs and then random cut it the other direction so that we have a variety of shapes and sizes. When we pick it up, it's all cut up and in a very large bag that I then fill up gallon size zip lock freezer bags about 3 bags a week, redo as needed. Helps when weighing it out for meals and I don't have to chop up heart smile I picked up a very large pork loin (or something like that) this last week on sale for $1.78lb.

When people question you about giving your dog bones (and some will ask!) you can assure them it's *cooked* bones that splinter. We do stay away from pork necks, they just seem very sharp the way they're cut up.

Just a few examples for you.
Posted by: Jane Jean

Re: Dr. Becker and raw - 08/22/13 12:41 AM

Originally Posted By: FurKids
Sardines would work nicely for your sweetie. Be careful with canned mackerel, brine is very salty so look for canned in water or something like that.

Just to clarify, I know some do but we don't feed whole big chunks of animals that they have to rip meat off of.

We get our meat at the meat market and markdown meats at Walmart. Our dogs prefer it frozen. Giving my dog a frozen bone is scary to me so when I give them bone-in I nuke it on defrost just long enough that it's frozen but not rock hard frozen. We also feed a good variety, not just chicken quarters and turkey necks. We include things like liver, gizzards blah blah blah following the "formula" of averaging 80% muscle etc, 10% bone, 5% each organ and liver.

I look at where things are packaged, most mackarel and sardines are packaged in China or other Eastern Countries. I try to stay with Canadian or US(yea,right/nothing is US packed anymore) packaged fish, and don't buy the farm raised but wild caught.
Posted by: Vinnie

Re: Dr. Becker and raw - 08/22/13 09:35 AM

Originally Posted By: samralf
Originally Posted By: Braverhund
I'm terrible at match. I'm sorry! But, whatever the formula for raw feeding puppies is based on the adult weight, there are teeny fishies to feed whole. wink Grimmi has enjoyed whole frozen smelt and capelin-- those are about as long as your hand. So easy and fun to feed! Russian groceries often have them, and I guess you could Google online to find a source, too. Just a thought!


Thanks for the suggestions. I don't know why I was thinking all fishies are huge.


We've fed minnows too which are small and can be bought at most bait stores. Our cat loves them too and they seem to be just the right size for him. I usually cut off the tail and top fin. No real value in feeding that and many times the dogs will just leave that behind anyway. You can also buy them freeze dried online. http://www.petextras.com/Freeze-Dried-Minnows-PE71.htm
They are very popular dog treats in Australia I hear.

Canned fish (sardines/mackerel) is fine but go with fresh when it's available to you.

PS. Great advice Patty!
Posted by: samralf

Re: Dr. Becker and raw - 08/22/13 03:30 PM

Thanks y'all. I have a fish market not too far from me that I'll go check out now that I've gotten some help from you guys. smile
Posted by: Braverhund

Re: Dr. Becker and raw - 08/22/13 04:24 PM

Vinnie, minnows, absolutely! Great idea! We don't worry much about mercury either, as fish isn't an everyday thing. But it's a super way to get whole prey into the dog's diet a few times per week or a few times per month. You can also use any type of bait fish like killies. Grimm is a seasoned raw-fed dog, and has crunched happily through huge fins, long rows of spines, and even the schnoz on a meter-long needlefish! shocked wow Dogs learn to be very thorough and sensible, and a dog who has been exclusively raw-fed for years develops some kick-butt gastric enzymes & stomach acid! paw We live by the sea, and Grimm's well-accustomed to this. Otherwise, to start with, I would strongly recommend much easier fishies as mentioned above. thumbup
Posted by: Braverhund

Re: Dr. Becker and raw - 08/22/13 04:36 PM

Yikes, sorry that came out all in red! hammer Just the disclaimer about starting with easier fish was meant to be highlighted. D'oh! rofl
Posted by: samralf

Re: Dr. Becker and raw - 08/23/13 12:50 AM

Originally Posted By: Braverhund
Vinnie, minnows, absolutely! Great idea! We don't worry much about mercury either, as fish isn't an everyday thing. But it's a super way to get whole prey into the dog's diet a few times per week or a few times per month. You can also use any type of bait fish like killies. Grimm is a seasoned raw-fed dog, and has crunched happily through huge fins, long rows of spines, and even the schnoz on a meter-long needlefish! shocked wow Dogs learn to be very thorough and sensible, and a dog who has been exclusively raw-fed for years develops some kick-butt gastric enzymes & stomach acid! paw We live by the sea, and Grimm's well-accustomed to this. Otherwise, to start with, I would strongly recommend much easier fishies as mentioned above. thumbup


Thanks for the tip! I thought the red made it easier for me to read. smile
Posted by: lhczth

Re: Dr. Becker and raw - 08/23/13 12:37 PM

She gives no reasons for her claims and then describes a very poor diet as an example of the whole prey model. Far better to just describe what she feeds and the reasons why instead of adding the rest. IMO what you quoted makes her ideas less creditable.
Posted by: samralf

Re: Dr. Becker and raw - 08/24/13 09:44 AM

Originally Posted By: lhczth
She gives no reasons for her claims and then describes a very poor diet as an example of the whole prey model. Far better to just describe what she feeds and the reasons why instead of adding the rest. IMO what you quoted makes her ideas less creditable.


That's what I was thinking. I think it's kind of fishy that the stuff she wants you to add are the stuff that she just so happens to sell......
Posted by: FurKids

Re: Dr. Becker and raw - 08/25/13 01:28 PM

Quote:
That's what I was thinking. I think it's kind of fishy that the stuff she wants you to add are the stuff that she just so happens to sell......


Hmmm, imagine that ... interesting.
Posted by: Natalie559

Re: Dr. Becker and raw - 09/17/13 11:40 AM

I'm not sure how Becker formulates her diets, but I am all for formulating one to meet nutritional needs! I think a dog needs certain amounts and proportions of nutrients and if the diet analyzed and tweaked doesn't meet the needs then I supplement. That's not to say you have to feed veggies, as I do not, but I do ensure best I can complete nutrition through the foods I choose to feed. I find that my diets need to be supplemented with zinc, manganese, magnesium, omega 3, cod liver oil and I sometimes add iodine. Since I only have guidelines for adult I chose to feed my puppy kibble until almost 1 year old. Damage could be gone to growth and bones if not fed properly during this time.
Posted by: Natalie559

Re: Dr. Becker and raw - 09/17/13 11:44 AM

Originally Posted By: Braverhund
It's not balance per each meal, it's balance over time. Kinda like how we feed our own human kids. They don't get eggs, salad, fish, fruits and whole grains at every meal-- we feed those things over the course of a week. So, the diet is balanced... over time.


Not saying this is wrong, and probably a whole nother topic, but for me personally, using the 'we don't formulate our own human diets' argument means little to me judging the overall health of America today- it's poor and too many people are overweight and/or sick.
Posted by: MaxaLisa

Re: Dr. Becker and raw - 09/17/13 11:56 AM

I think dogs are very resilient, like humans. How many people do we know that survive on crap diets and often appear to do okay? I do agree that variety doesn't equal balance.

My experience with Becker and Mercola, is that they sell things they believe in, so it makes sense that they are going to have articles that align with their products. Certainly does,kt mean that we shouldn't do our own homework though.